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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
281
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 09:53:41 -
[121] - Quote
It's not SKINS or PLEX. |

Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5017
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 11:26:01 -
[122] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote: EDIT to add. This new gold rush has it's higher risk mitigated by the fact that the stuff is actually useful to the right people. At the moment if you are holding a huge stack of megacycte or zydrine you are effectively shafted if you can't move it. It's consumed in such small quantities that holding a large stockpile is holding a dead item. The new gold rush does not suffer that issue, or at least for the right characters it doesn't.
PS I skipped a gold rush in the ship skins, but it's too late now if you missed it.
It's the key component for Tactical Destroyer invention. I was going to buy into them but I fear I've missed the opportunity. Not buying them at present prices although I may regret this decision.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
138
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 12:02:29 -
[123] - Quote
While the SKINs can also be considered as raw via BPCs, there are other raw resources in mind.
So much raw stuff to buy, must buy all the things. 
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5018
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 12:47:14 -
[124] - Quote
Oh, I'm not talking about building Confessors or Svipuls.
It's Jackdaws on release day that I'd be doing if I was trained appropriately.
I had made a mental note to buy up those things but didn't pull the trigger on it, forgot, and as a result have very little stock.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|

GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
138
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 12:53:00 -
[125] - Quote
If the other two destroyers come adjusted, then I doubt people would be paying 80m to fly those. 
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5018
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 13:20:35 -
[126] - Quote
GankYou wrote:If the other two destroyers come adjusted, then I doubt people would be paying 70m to fly those.  However... scrap that - they used to pay twice the amount for frigates.  You underestimate people's willingness to try the Big New Thing.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|

GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
138
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 13:38:52 -
[127] - Quote
That new big thing will also be efficient at what it is intended to do. Agreed, double the price of Interdictors could be reasonable for some time. 
Back on topic: I find there is no great pressure to sell an asset in Eve, following a major move on the news of fundamental change in its essence. Even the people who got in on Megacyte around the 2480 ISK p/u level, their unrealised loss is only at 24% currently, so long as they don't sell.
In the leveraged real world, this move would develop further down as the stakes are very high and the stops are very tight. Also, the absence of short-selling further prevents larger corrections, as the initial buyers, having enjoyed the move up, don't initiate sell positions after closing on their buys.
The only inconvenience, in this particular case of Zyd & Mega, is having your capital locked into these minerals for a few weeks to a month, or whenever the price reaches break even. 
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
281
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 15:31:07 -
[128] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:virm pasuul wrote: EDIT to add. This new gold rush has it's higher risk mitigated by the fact that the stuff is actually useful to the right people. At the moment if you are holding a huge stack of megacycte or zydrine you are effectively shafted if you can't move it. It's consumed in such small quantities that holding a large stockpile is holding a dead item. The new gold rush does not suffer that issue, or at least for the right characters it doesn't.
PS I skipped a gold rush in the ship skins, but it's too late now if you missed it.
It's the key component for Tactical Destroyer invention. I was going to buy into them but I fear I've missed the opportunity. Not buying them at present prices although I may regret this decision.
Your next big thing might be that but it's not mine and I don't think it's Gank's either. Come to think of it I don't think it's yours either. I seem to remember seeing that you already have a good idea of what the next big thing is so I can only assume this is a SECOND attempt by you to deflect attention :)
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Ren Oren
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
85
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 19:38:53 -
[129] - Quote
GankYou wrote:That new big thing will also be efficient at what it is intended to do. Agreed, double the price of Interdictors could be reasonable for some time.  Back on topic: I find there is no great pressure to sell an asset in Eve, following a major move on the news of fundamental change in its essence. Even the people who got in on Megacyte around the 2480 ISK p/u level, their unrealised loss is only at 24% currently, so long as they don't sell. In the leveraged other real world beyond The Eve Gate, this move would develop further down as the stakes are very high and the stops are very tight.  The absence of short-selling further prevents larger corrections, as the initial buyers, having enjoyed the move up, don't initiate sell positions after closing on their buys. The only inconvenience, in this particular case of Zyd & Mega, is having your capital locked into these minerals for a few weeks to a month, or whenever the price reaches break even. 
GankYou do you still charge consultation fees for market tips? |

GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
164
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 19:47:13 -
[130] - Quote
Not at this time.
That was a one-time issue newsletter for those entrepreneural enough. I find the lack of short-selling in Eve very limiting with regards to the number of possible different trades one can undertake - it's all BUY, BUY, BUY.
Otherwise, I'd be shorting the shiet out of the Lowend mineral market right now. 
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Adunh Slavy
1612
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 22:24:03 -
[131] - Quote
GankYou wrote: I find the lack of short-selling in Eve very limiting with regards to the number of possible different trades one can undertake
You can dump the market down to your buy orders, at least to within broker & tax fee range.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
164
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 22:37:30 -
[132] - Quote
Why would I want to do that? Where's the profit in that. I can see it being done with minimal volume orders, but it is not effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_%28finance%29
Apart from dumping all your current liabilities, i.e. battleship hulls, capital ships, which are exposed to the resources you'd like to short, there is no other way to influence the market.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
|

Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5022
|
Posted - 2015.04.25 02:01:11 -
[133] - Quote
I'm in the somewhat awkward position of needing a sizable number of lowend minerals each few days at present which has been interesting.
I keep posting buy orders lower each time.
If Mex falls into the 30s I intend to buy several tens of millions of units for something, if a few bigger market actors have similar ideas we may see some support.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|

GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
165
|
Posted - 2015.04.25 02:50:28 -
[134] - Quote
Mexallon into the 30s p/u would be pre-capital bubble, though entirely possible - http://eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=36#history
Mid 40s in the next few months is also a likely scenario, but we should really take this into the appropriate thread - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=417056&find=unread 
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
168
|
Posted - 2015.04.25 19:56:02 -
[135] - Quote
I may have been wrong in my earlier technical analysis of Zydrine.
You see, it is hard to ascertain where a particular move ends, and sometimes where another one begins, with liquidity often being thin, and I must therefore revise my work in the following manner - http://i.imgur.com/RN4a3YV.png
It is reasonable to assume, then, that true price discovery would be along the scope of the average price, and not merely sell orders. Then, the correction continues, as the current sub-wave "b" of the corrective Wave 2 is about to terminate, or has done so already, which is always followed by a third move down, as the people who got in at the top of the previous major move up (Wave 1 - V), close as many positions as they possibly can.
Buy orders during this time stop chasing the ask price, and are fulfilled quickly and in bulk - speaking of which: When I see 18 million unit single Sell orders on the market - http://i.imgur.com/Ke4ipVX.png - I just close the remaining positions, as I don't compete with speculators, especially of this level, http://imgur.com/a/S7eoX#5 - Spot the true demand. 
Furthermore, without Lowends rebalancing lower in a few months time, their share of the cost will not be spread around Zydrine & Megacyte without this glorious event ever happening in the first place, as all Battleship, all Battlecruiser production stops overnight with it becoming unprofitable to manufacture these hulls for a considerable period to come, further depressing the market which barely recovered after the Tiericide.
So, all-in-all, without Entosis links being exploded everywhere - Coming July? Check their BoM! - and without major disruption in Null renter space, coupled with the current JF jump ranges, plus no tangible consumption increase as the whole Tech 1 production suffers shock and enters a paralysis, courtesy of the current Lowend Lion's share of the costs, I see Zydrine and Megacyte staying at present levels at best and will revisit sub-1,000/1,800 p/u in the near term.
The lady, who previously had a 41 mil Zyd sell order @ 1510 and since pulled, but now with 70 mil units & counting in Jita, will surely supply the economy for months to come - 3,500 battleships-worth under the new inputs!
My only hope right now is that the courier, who had undertaken to move 10% of my Zyd holdings, will not deliver it to me tonight, as the contract expires in less than 4 hours. One can hope. 
If I'm wrong, I will have made less money, if everyone else is right - they make more money. 
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Adunh Slavy
1613
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 05:42:20 -
[136] - Quote
GankYou wrote:I can see it being done with minimal volume orders, but it is not effective at the levels and time frames that I operate.
No harm in size, but it is the only short we've got.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
|

EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1071
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 17:07:49 -
[137] - Quote
GankYou wrote:I may have been wrong in my earlier technical analysis of Zydrine. considering that technical analysis is completely discredited nonsense, yes, you will frequently fail to predict the future using it |

EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1071
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 17:11:38 -
[138] - Quote
actual analysis: demand for zyd is going up, supply will be going down tomorrow, these will lead to a new equilibrium price higher than now, which will largely depend on what price miners will demand to supply enough zyd from nullsec anoms instead of ratting
the only delaying factor is the amount of stockpiled zyd, something unknowable from looking at pretty graphs and engaging in the exceedingly well-known phenomenon of seeing patterns to chaotic data that do not exist
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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
284
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 22:01:46 -
[139] - Quote
actual analysis: demand for zyd is going up, TRUE supply will be going down tomorrow, FALSE these will lead to a new equilibrium price higher than now, GUESS AND OPINION which will largely depend on what price miners will demand to supply enough zyd from nullsec anoms instead of ratting TRUE
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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
284
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 22:18:27 -
[140] - Quote
Logically smaller investors should sell up Megacyte and Zydrine now - even if at a loss - and buy back in later when the price has dropped more. They recoup the drop either as profit, or to offset their losses.
It's the psychological difference between "If I sell now I've made a loss on my investment, if I hang on I should be OK." versus the more logical "OK if I sell know I've made a loss but it's falling, I can buy back in after it falls more, and recoup profit to offset my loss, and still end up with the same holding."
Real life traders find this one of the hardest skills to learn, getting out before additional loss occurs because if they sell now they will make a loss and who wants to sell at a loss? If they just stay in it will recover won't it?
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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
286
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 22:39:17 -
[141] - Quote
OK 1 last post then I'll shut up :)
Lets just compare megacyte and zydrine. They both jumped for the same reasons, not similar pretty much exactly the same. The consumption is being doubled for both. So the long term price effect for both due to the same change should be the same for both yes? OK very simplistic analysis. Stretch those price graphs out to a year for both minerals. The period from a year ago to just before the tulip bubble.
Megacyte cruised down from 1600 to 700 = 43% of original price. Zydrine cruised down similarly from from 750 to 400 = 53% of original price. 10% difference in price fall
My point being so far that they pretty much mirror each other. Not exactly, there's a 10% difference but they seem to be tracking each other pretty well.
Now do the same exercise on the bubble.
Meg 700 -> 2000 = 285% Zydrine 400 -> 1300 = 325% 40% difference in price rise?
My point is that for two items subjected to the same stresses, and with a history of matching, are now significantly imbalanced. Either megacyte is under priced or zydrine overshot by too much. Or maybe a little of both. The market will correct this over time. I strongly believe zydrine overshot and will fall a few hundred before it starts to settle. |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2808
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 21:26:46 -
[142] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:
My point is that for two items subjected to the same stresses, and with a history of matching, are now significantly imbalanced. Either megacyte is under priced or zydrine overshot by too much. Or maybe a little of both. The market will correct this over time. I strongly believe zydrine overshot and will fall a few hundred before it starts to settle.
You are assuming 1 of the prices has to be "right". The thing is that there have been two changes. Double the content required is alot like cutting the supply in half. And the supply has been cut in half (or more accurately the amount of zyd/mega in asteroids has been cut in half)....so where with the zyd/mega prices "settle"? Hard to say, but one estimate could be to look back at where zyd/mega had about 1/4th the quantity on the market today. Or, that the prices are still not near some sort of "equilibrium" price.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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virm pasuul
Viziam Amarr Empire
286
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 21:45:02 -
[143] - Quote
I think I need to make my point clearer maybe.
None of us know, apart from CCP, possibly not even CCP what will happen to the prices, but we can guess and even use logic.
The two items are both subject to the same changes. But they have reacted with sufficient difference to warrant a question in my opinion. The question being has zydrine overshot too much? Is it likely to go down?
I compared the rises in both to back up my argument. I am not assuming one is right, I even go so far as to point out they could both correct in the part you quoted of my post. The fact they are both going down, Zydrine more so, even since my posts hints strongly that the short term correction lies in that direction not the other.
No one doubts consumption has doubled. Supply will probably go down ( as long as the price increase doesn't motivate miners to mine more of it ) the market will decide and self govern.
These changes mean the price must logically go up from where it was, but it already went up significantly from speculation alone. The real question is "Will it go up or down from where it is NOW?" NOT "Will it go up from where it was?" That has already been answered, there are no cookies being given out for figuring this out even if you worked it out without looking at the market.
Where the price is now versus where the price will be in the short, medium and long term is the question where ISK is to be made. I was trying to answer that question, with reasoning, and stuffs.
Edit - Sorry for the GRR tone in my post. |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2808
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 23:51:21 -
[144] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:I think I need to make my point clearer maybe.
None of us know, apart from CCP, possibly not even CCP what will happen to the prices, but we can guess and even use logic.
The two items are both subject to the same changes. But they have reacted with sufficient difference to warrant a question in my opinion. The question being has zydrine overshot too much? Is it likely to go down?
I compared the rises in both to back up my argument. I am not assuming one is right, I even go so far as to point out they could both correct in the part you quoted of my post. The fact they are both going down, Zydrine more so, even since my posts hints strongly that the short term correction lies in that direction not the other.
No one doubts consumption has doubled. Supply will probably go down ( as long as the price increase doesn't motivate miners to mine more of it ) the market will decide and self govern.
These changes mean the price must logically go up from where it was, but it already went up significantly from speculation alone. The real question is "Will it go up or down from where it is NOW?" NOT "Will it go up from where it was?" That has already been answered, there are no cookies being given out for figuring this out even if you worked it out without looking at the market.
Where the price is now versus where the price will be in the short, medium and long term is the question where ISK is to be made. I was trying to answer that question, with reasoning, and stuffs.
Edit - Sorry for the GRR tone in my post.
Well, let me clarify as well. 
The market is still in considerable flux as the patch was just recently deployed. If somebody, for some reason has a pile of megacyte and dumps it on the market, ti would depress the price of megacyte but not necessarily have much immediate impact of zydrine. So, seeing different percentage changes doesn't seem unreasonable to me...for now. Maybe in 6 months or a year, it might be significant.
As for the longer term...like I said one estimate could be to look back when the quantities were 1/4 what they are now. You could try for some sort of population correction, but that would be rather time consuming and largely just guess work. If you wanted to be conservative, take a look at the prices when the quantities on the market were 1/4th what they are now and take a simple average from what the price is right now. For example, if the prices (making them up off the top of my head for illustrative purposes) for zyd/mega were 2,500 and 3,400 respectively, and the current prices are 1,300 and 2,200 respectively then the final price would be somewhere near 1,900 and 2,800 respectively. Again, still quite a bit of guess work though....
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Tazinas2
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 01:04:43 -
[145] - Quote
We will be fortunate if zydrine stays in the 700-800 range long term. Higher prices will just encourage more mining not to mention the stockpiles that exist from the glut of supply for so long. I think 1300-1500 for megacyte sounds and feels about right unless null decides to mine the snot out of high ends. |

Fzhal
Anoikis Vergence The Last Chancers.
8
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 03:49:32 -
[146] - Quote
Tazinas2 wrote:We will be fortunate if zydrine stays in the 700-800 range long term. Higher prices will just encourage more mining not to mention the stockpiles that exist from the glut of supply for so long. I think 1300-1500 for megacyte sounds and feels about right unless null decides to mine the snot out of high ends. Now sov will probably reduce buffer zones, this would result in less mining yields from most not in a coalition. Capital rebalancing is unknown at this point.
virm pasuul, it is illogical to use logic to attempt to find logical conclusions in situations with unknowns so large that attempting to find logical conclusions is illogical.  |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2810
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 05:04:09 -
[147] - Quote
Tazinas2 wrote:We will be fortunate if zydrine stays in the 700-800 range long term. Higher prices will just encourage more mining not to mention the stockpiles that exist from the glut of supply for so long. I think 1300-1500 for megacyte sounds and feels about right unless null decides to mine the snot out of high ends.
Ok...let me tell you something about supply and demand. You change say, supply, and demand does not have to change in such a way to ensure the price does not have to change or changes very little. In fact, that hypothesis, essentially, rests on a "knife's edge". Supply changes by X at all prices...and then demand changes by Y at all prices so that the equilibrium price is unchanged. In probability theory this kind of an outcome is one that is known as being almost surely zero--i.e. the probability is zero, although it could still happen.
In my estimate above, I picked the average between the historic price and the current price to account for additional mining. Thing is that even with additional mining it isn't clear at all that it would have to keep the price at the current level or even lower. Essentially mining would have to double and I'm not sure that is possible given the changes.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Kisle
AGM Incorporated Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 07:35:33 -
[148] - Quote
Now this is nice stock :) http://i.imgur.com/IoiO5a4.png |

Tazinas2
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 14:31:34 -
[149] - Quote
Lol, my point exactly. The high end market has been out whack for so long theres just so much out there. I think ccp did these changes just so those two minerals didn't go to effective zero. And the poster above who said he didn't think mining could double, the way prices were going they were already mining over what was needed because those prices just continued to fall. One guy in this thread predicts 3700 megacyte??!! Sorry folks that's a pipe dream. |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2810
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 15:11:23 -
[150] - Quote
Tazinas2 wrote:Lol, my point exactly. The high end market has been out whack for so long theres just so much out there. I think ccp did these changes just so those two minerals didn't go to effective zero. And the poster above who said he didn't think mining could double, the way prices were going they were already mining over what was needed because those prices just continued to fall. One guy in this thread predicts 3700 megacyte??!! Sorry folks that's a pipe dream.
It has happened before, and it isn't clear that mining can double. The fact that there is a guy with a huge amount of high ends does not mean mining will double. That isn't even evidence in the slightest. Look at the name of the can, its called speculation...he may very well have bought it off the market. Also, there are other things like the impact of Fozziesov on the market as well. Some places might be able to keep high industrial indexes, others not so much. It is important to distinguish between what is theoretically possible and what is actually likely to occur.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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