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Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.10.20 04:03:00 - [31] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. your unintelligence and lack of knoledge never ceases to amaze me. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Montero Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Tasty Burger I can't be bothered to reply fully but lets just say you're wrong. -Stiletto is the best TACKLER, perhaps. -Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. -Jaguar gets pwned by ishkurs. -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Huginn/Rapier are only useful for webbing, and TPs are almost useless. -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup. -Stilleo = insta lock and 6 points - Vaga = best speed , decent dmg. -Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk. - i agree on the carrier and nanophoon is just to gank noobs. Mini have good ships and crap ships like anyone else so dont realy see whats the problem and if want to compare well lets look at the caldari eagle vs the vaga for example , eagle can only snipe and it does crapy dmg although extremly wrogn range but thats what it is only good for how ever look at what the vaga can do even compare it to a deimos which cant even fit a decent ion setup and i owtn even start on neutrons with out 1 RCU T2 ( no idea if the patch will give any hoep on this but we will see) .You cant have all top notch ships for one race , aint gonan happen ! Problem is Yaz, the Hp boost is a huge nerf to active tanking (high HP and resists is now preferable) which **s on ships with an active tanking bonus such as the sleip. The vaga can no longer carry enough ammo to achieve anything (i have to run back to empire usualy 4 or 5 times in night for more ammo, sometimes after just one fight). This will apply to any non-frig sized auto ship. Artys are now a waste of time and i honestly pity the arty tempest pilots. We now have the stilleto and.... the stilleto. The prowler is pretty good too i guess... I agree with u totly on that , i always though this will coem as a boost for mini guns since their magazien sizes are rediculously small in comparison to gallnate and i ownt even start on amarr who keep whining and not realising what it means to 10 seconds reload time in combat can easily mean 2 vollies , tbh i think mini guns will get a boost either after the patch or in kali coz with that HP boost no way they gonna be worth it. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"**
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:00:00 - [33] Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford. Welcome to my sig. Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford. [/center]
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:44:00 - [34] Oveur just posted that they are aware of the alpha strike problem, so thats enough for me to calm down abit. :) Originally by: Oveur We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:53:00 - [35] Originally by: Jim McGregor Oveur just posted that they are aware of the alpha strike problem, so thats enough for me to calm down abit. :) Originally by: Oveur We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing. Where? Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:58:00 - [36] Originally by: Testy Mctest Where? General Discussion. :) Thats where the REAL ship balancing discussions are being done you know... Linkage --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Xendie btw.. i know of a guy who kills properly kitted out astartes in his Ishtar. Anything with mwd, 20km scrambler and mid range weapons can do that.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:34:00 - [38] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. Sniping for artillery will not be ineffective, have you ever been in a fleet fight with more than 200ppl? not everyone evn has a chance to get their guns off let alone fire more volleys, this fix will nerf the 1-man-army sniping which is so * as pirates snipe t1 shuttles and frigs. 0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 14:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Tasty Burger -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. Now, yes. But with all the other changes (HP+, etc) it gets +75 cpu (275 cpu vs the 300 cpu of the buzzard) AND the cpu reduction of the skill gets doubled (well, not doubled, but instead of cloak needing 100 cpu ad lvl 4 it will need 50 cpu, for example). I think all cheetah users can wave any cpu problems bye-bye. Unless of cource the new probe launcher needs much more cpu than the old one, but even then..it has with skills only 31.25 less cpu than the buzzard and 1 more low slot which it can use for a co-proc.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. Sniping for artillery will not be ineffective, have you ever been in a fleet fight with more than 200ppl? not everyone evn has a chance to get their guns off let alone fire more volleys, this fix will nerf the 1-man-army sniping which is so * as pirates snipe t1 shuttles and frigs. 200 ppl fleets are not the only kind of combat in Eve!! And on my point of view 200 ppl fleet fight is anying and non fun. If I wanted such type of gameplay I would go play a RTS game.
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:06:00 - [41] Edited by: Nir on 20/10/2006 16:09:48 Now that they're increasing ship HPs even further, whats an Amarr pilot supposed to do? You can't fit a tank on any of our Battleships and use guns at the same time. Sad as it may sound it is Amarr who are forced to rely on Alpha Strikes, not Matari.. Because at least Minmatar CAN reload. With for ex. a Tachygeddon you are out of cap in just over a minute - You better pray that your target is dead by then because you don't get to reload your guns. And don't even think about fitting a tank, 2-3 of your lowslots are filled with Reactor Control Units in the first place. I personally see this as Tuxford's cunning plan to force every Amarr pilot to create a logistics alt to feed him cap transfers after every volley. P.S. All the above wouldn't be so bad IF Amarr had any real DPS to show for in return. I would gladly become useless 1 minute into a fight if I actually received any sort of perk or trade off for that, but we don't..
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:49:00 - [42] Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:52:00 - [43] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. speed? not really that much more. painful guns? ok they are least damaging. sniping needs a nerf? sure, then nerf rails too since they are way better for sniping anyways. stababond getting nerfed, sleipnir is nerfed now that crystals are getting changed to shield hp...
Alhandra Slayer Minmatar Chuskarl's Family The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:23:00 - [44] if they nerf minmatar too much... ...i will nerf their life yarrrrrrrr
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:25:00 - [45] Ishkur is the best HAC. And Vaga will suck without its multiple WCS's in lows seeings they are getting nerfed. And the more WCS's the worse the punishment. (If two good modules are stacked and start working poorly, does that mean that if I stack the new WCS's on my vaga, ill actually get a BONUS?) Quote: Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr
Metis AT	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:40:00 - [46] What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. It was already a fab HAC (so long as you didn't bring the Vagabond into the picture). It's now going to be even better, especially now the turret ships that use cap for their weapons will have a much higher chance of capping out.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. Yeah, I think it will be good enough with the 5 guns, 2 nos fitting. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Metis AT	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:02:00 - [50] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Yup as i see it, artillery is a bit fubar after this, but almost the entire amarr fleet is going to be out of cap before they break anyones tank. All amarr will be flying curse/pilgrims for the forseeable future.
Chee Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:29:00 - [51] ironic, i started an amarr character back in march to play with along with my minmatar main. I considered one of them had to be on the good/decent side of 'wheel of balance' at any given time. That just got souped
hitech redneck Digital Mind Crimes	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Zosimos Sabina Oh well. FOTM and the bandwagon's been going around for ages. You can't win 'em all . One of these days Caldari are going to suffer being on the bottom of the totem pole... some day. please tell me how they are on the top. most of thier ships suck for pvp.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:53:00 - [53] Originally by: Tasty Burger Tuxford has no idea what he's talking about Correct. I wonder how long it will take CCP to realise this and send him to guard post duty on some abandoned outpost in Catch.
Evil Sulu Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore. ------------- Recruiting 5 Killers
Kolhell Minmatar CAD Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:40:00 - [55] thanks for recognizing that this will affect both races negatively... methinks we should band together and declare jihad on tux :( ------------------------- bury the hatchet
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:04:00 - [56] Seeing as though he listens to all the other idiots whining about how their dominix/raven cant kill everything because their setup sucks, maybe he'll listen to us.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:43:00 - [57] I'm starting to see my current specialization in all kinds of med guns starting to paying off. btw I'm training med laser specialization, if you wonder. Learned looooong time ago that if you want to avoid nerfs like this, nothing better than go all races instead specializing in one. after lasers spec'ing, 4 races cruiser to lvl5 here I go! ANYWAYS, people are right, and I totally agree with this thread. Minmatar guns will get b0rked with this, and it will accentuate the laser's drawbacks by allot. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Metis AT All amarr will be flying curse/pilgrims for the forseeable future. We are allready doing that, but not when the nos nerf is introduced N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:59:00 - [59] Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. main problem is you'll have to go get more ammo after one kill In rust we trust!!! Right here Tux ,,\|,,
Sergej Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:00:00 - [60] Originally by: Evil Sulu Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore.

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