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Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Tasty Burger on 19/10/2006 20:11:30 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=413476 http://houseofbeni.com/EVE/devchat.htm Tuxford has no idea what he's talking about, and he assumes we are stupid or something. RIP.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:15:00 - [2] Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4.
lofty29 Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. --- Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:25:00 - [4] Originally by: lofty29 Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. This is pure flamebait...and its almost working since I know you fly megathrons and dont know anything about minmatar. But... I guess you have the right to your opinion.... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:34:00 - [5] Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:34:00 - [6] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. I just hope that some pigeon drops a big drop off ** on ya mate .
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: lofty29 Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. This is pure flamebait...and its almost working since I know you fly megathrons and dont know anything about minmatar. But... I guess you have the right to your opinion....
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:38:00 - [8] Man, when we get factional warfare, we should just unite Minmatar, Amarr and Khanid and royally mess up anything Caldari. Just out of pure good old spite --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:41:00 - [9] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/10/2006 20:43:08 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ Artillery boats: 0. (ok, maybe a few of them can use artillery, ill give you that) Maybe the OP wasnt clear. By increasing the hitpoints of the ships, he is decreasing the significance of the already bad alpha strike of artillery. Alpha strike. Because thats all artillery has going for it. They are the lowest dps longrange guns in the game. Lowest. I hope you understand why players are upset. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Tasty Burger on 19/10/2006 20:43:39 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ I can't be bothered to reply fully but lets just say you're wrong. -Stiletto is the best TACKLER, perhaps. -Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. -Jaguar gets pwned by ishkurs. -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Huginn/Rapier are only useful for webbing, and TPs are almost useless. -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup. And seriously bringing up good ships is IRRELEVANT. The fact of the matter is that boosting tanking NERFS THE ENTIRE MINMATAR SHIPLINE. They have the WORST DPS of all the races and can't even break tanks at the moment, what makes you think they'll be able to break any after the tanking boost? The Amarr will run out of cap before a battle is over, the minmatar will run out of ammo and do ** all damage. Both suck at tanking. And look at your list? NONE of those are artillery boats. Artillery is already almost useless, this change just rips away its only advantage. Honestly you guys probably dont even pvp. The changes nerf small gang pvp and surgical strikes, which completely nerfs minmatar. Poor damage per second and poor tanks = ** when the tanks are unbeatable. Now minmatar ships will take like 3 minutes to kill a ship while their friends pour in and kick your ass. Gallente and Caldari are the only good races atm.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:43:00 - [11] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ isthar = best hac iskhur = Best af best cov op true astarte = best CS recons? carrier lol mate best joke ever nanophoon?what is that?
eve warrior Minmatar Serial Killers	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:52:00 - [12] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ sorry but its not apirls fools day yet. nice try though. Eve warrior
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2006.10.19 20:56:00 - [13] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 19/10/2006 21:02:18 Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 19/10/2006 21:00:53 Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 19/10/2006 20:58:34 Originally by: Pesadel0 isthar = best hac iskhur = Best af best cov op true astarte = best CS recons? carrier lol mate best joke ever nanophoon?what is that? Ishtar is a mini-dominix. Can't really do much better than the dominix can. Vagabond actually has a different role. It does something that a BS can't do.(TBH, ishtar, deimos, zealot, cerb are all ... uhm, cool to fly but not exactly practical) Jaguar might not beat a ishkur 1v1, but it has better speed + 4 med slots Sleipnir actually has a very good tank and a low sig etc. 2 wcs + 2 gyro is good. Astarte can't do that. Astarte fails as being worse than mega for pretty much anything but frigs. But then again, Astarte has uber DPS, that most likely makes it the best CS ever... Recons are all good, each have different roles and are all useful(ok, some a bit more than others, but...) Nanophoon is just cool. What else do you use carriers for? Now you can't do missions/complexes, they can't tank anything that could be considered a fleet. OKK. Thantanos kills belt rats faster.
Zosimos Sabina Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:00:00 - [14] Oh well. FOTM and the bandwagon's been going around for ages. You can't win 'em all . One of these days Caldari are going to suffer being on the bottom of the totem pole... some day.
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:03:00 - [15] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld 2 wcs + 2 gyro is good. Astarte can't do that.
Vince Draken Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:05:00 - [16] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ ROFL You must go get a clue before posting. The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Vince Draken Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ ROFL You must go get a clue before posting. Care to elaborate?
Sebai Hana	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:08:00 - [18] Tbh Crow is the best inty since it can fly at any speed and still deal damage since missiles don't have tracking issues at 5km/s (or more) and it can deal damage from far away (up to 30km + with good skills). Nofo for Mofos
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Sebai Hana Tbh Crow is the best inty since it can fly at any speed and still deal damage since missiles don't have tracking issues at 5km/s (or more) and it can deal damage from far away (up to 30km + with good skills). Yeah, Agree. Crow is uber for 1v1 or just general annoyance. Those Snake implanted crows going uber fast are VERY VERY ANNOYING. But for pure tackling(eg what a frig should do, mostly) a stilletto is obviously the best.
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:11:00 - [20] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Originally by: Vince Draken Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ ROFL You must go get a clue before posting. Care to elaborate? let me try alittle...... Minmatar carrier for POS recharging????? a carrier gotta be useful for something else dont you think? btw.. i know of a guy who kills properly kitted out astartes in his Ishtar. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Sebai Hana Tbh Crow is the best inty since it can fly at any speed and still deal damage since missiles don't have tracking issues at 5km/s (or more) and it can deal damage from far away (up to 30km + with good skills). some ppl would come and say that the crusader is the best but its pretty hard hitting something with beams doing **ty dmg at 25-30k range going at 7k+ not to mention the fact that the damage on the crusader isnt even near the crow at those speeds. the crow just keeps chucking out its dmg each volley that wont miss. Quote:** Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Vince Draken Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.19 21:27:00 - [22] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Originally by: Vince Draken Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ ROFL You must go get a clue before posting. Care to elaborate? Honestly, why bother? Eeryone else has said why, if you don't want to listen to them I cba to argue with a tree. The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such.
Denrace Amarr Psykotic Dreams Barracudas.	Posted - 2006.10.19 22:05:00 - [23] Gallente quite easily have the best selection of PVP oriented ships. It absolutely should not be this way. EVE is heavily focused on PVP, so why give one race a CLEAR advantage?!!? Get it FRICKING CHANGED. Den ________________________________________
RUNYOUFOOLS Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.10.19 22:32:00 - [24] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford. Well do you love eggs?
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.19 22:42:00 - [25] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld 2 wcs + 2 gyro is good. Astarte can't do that. Not only are stabs getting nerfed.But anyone who puts them on any ship simply sucks. KTHNKXBYE BTW train for domi/raven guys.You should have the skill sets required already from trying to make the phoon work. --- CCP how about the pith X & A mods? "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Oedus Caro Caldari Caldari Deep Space Ventures	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. I just hope that some pigeon drops a big drop off ** on ya mate . You know some people believe that's good luck...
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:23:00 - [27] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. painful guns? Lol ac's do the worst dps out of any short range gun. Artillery will be quite inefective you're right, so just because you don't like sniping means an entire skill tree should be nerfed to hell? TBH you sound like a *** idiot but i'll elaborate more to follow. Stabbabond? No that will suck ass as it will take a day and a half to lock anything, people who fly stabbabonds are pussies anyway. Rapier is good in it's own right but so is every recon ship so to say it's better than the others is stupid. Sleipner is good because it can tank like a beast, however it doesn't dps that great compared to an astarte (we'll see how the nighthawk does in the next patch) so it's rather middle of the road (not saying it isn't good, but frankly all command ships are damn good). In rust we trust!!!** Right here Tux ,,\|,,
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Tasty Burger I can't be bothered to reply fully but lets just say you're wrong. -Stiletto is the best TACKLER, perhaps. -Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. -Jaguar gets pwned by ishkurs. -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Huginn/Rapier are only useful for webbing, and TPs are almost useless. -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup. -Stilleo = insta lock and 6 points - Vaga = best speed , decent dmg. -Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk. - i agree on the carrier and nanophoon is just to gank noobs. Mini have good ships and crap ships like anyone else so dont realy see whats the problem and if want to compare well lets look at the caldari eagle vs the vaga for example , eagle can only snipe and it does crapy dmg although extremly wrogn range but thats what it is only good for how ever look at what the vaga can do even compare it to a deimos which cant even fit a decent ion setup and i owtn even start on neutrons with out 1 RCU T2 ( no idea if the patch will give any hoep on this but we will see) .You cant have all top notch ships for one race , aint gonan happen ! "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Montero Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.20 02:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Tasty Burger I can't be bothered to reply fully but lets just say you're wrong. -Stiletto is the best TACKLER, perhaps. -Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. -Jaguar gets pwned by ishkurs. -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Huginn/Rapier are only useful for webbing, and TPs are almost useless. -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup. -Stilleo = insta lock and 6 points - Vaga = best speed , decent dmg. -Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk. - i agree on the carrier and nanophoon is just to gank noobs. Mini have good ships and crap ships like anyone else so dont realy see whats the problem and if want to compare well lets look at the caldari eagle vs the vaga for example , eagle can only snipe and it does crapy dmg although extremly wrogn range but thats what it is only good for how ever look at what the vaga can do even compare it to a deimos which cant even fit a decent ion setup and i owtn even start on neutrons with out 1 RCU T2 ( no idea if the patch will give any hoep on this but we will see) .You cant have all top notch ships for one race , aint gonan happen ! Problem is Yaz, the Hp boost is a huge nerf to active tanking (high HP and resists is now preferable) which ****s on ships with an active tanking bonus such as the sleip. The vaga can no longer carry enough ammo to achieve anything (i have to run back to empire usualy 4 or 5 times in night for more ammo, sometimes after just one fight). This will apply to any non-frig sized auto ship. Artys are now a waste of time and i honestly pity the arty tempest pilots. We now have the stilleto and.... the stilleto. The prowler is pretty good too i guess... --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.20 03:47:00 - [30] Don't forget the burst, that ship is the pwn...
Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.10.20 04:03:00 - [31] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. your unintelligence and lack of knoledge never ceases to amaze me. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Montero Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Tasty Burger I can't be bothered to reply fully but lets just say you're wrong. -Stiletto is the best TACKLER, perhaps. -Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. -Jaguar gets pwned by ishkurs. -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Huginn/Rapier are only useful for webbing, and TPs are almost useless. -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup. -Stilleo = insta lock and 6 points - Vaga = best speed , decent dmg. -Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk. - i agree on the carrier and nanophoon is just to gank noobs. Mini have good ships and crap ships like anyone else so dont realy see whats the problem and if want to compare well lets look at the caldari eagle vs the vaga for example , eagle can only snipe and it does crapy dmg although extremly wrogn range but thats what it is only good for how ever look at what the vaga can do even compare it to a deimos which cant even fit a decent ion setup and i owtn even start on neutrons with out 1 RCU T2 ( no idea if the patch will give any hoep on this but we will see) .You cant have all top notch ships for one race , aint gonan happen ! Problem is Yaz, the Hp boost is a huge nerf to active tanking (high HP and resists is now preferable) which **s on ships with an active tanking bonus such as the sleip. The vaga can no longer carry enough ammo to achieve anything (i have to run back to empire usualy 4 or 5 times in night for more ammo, sometimes after just one fight). This will apply to any non-frig sized auto ship. Artys are now a waste of time and i honestly pity the arty tempest pilots. We now have the stilleto and.... the stilleto. The prowler is pretty good too i guess... I agree with u totly on that , i always though this will coem as a boost for mini guns since their magazien sizes are rediculously small in comparison to gallnate and i ownt even start on amarr who keep whining and not realising what it means to 10 seconds reload time in combat can easily mean 2 vollies , tbh i think mini guns will get a boost either after the patch or in kali coz with that HP boost no way they gonna be worth it. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"**
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:00:00 - [33] Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford. Welcome to my sig. Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford. [/center]
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:44:00 - [34] Oveur just posted that they are aware of the alpha strike problem, so thats enough for me to calm down abit. :) Originally by: Oveur We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:53:00 - [35] Originally by: Jim McGregor Oveur just posted that they are aware of the alpha strike problem, so thats enough for me to calm down abit. :) Originally by: Oveur We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing. Where? Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:58:00 - [36] Originally by: Testy Mctest Where? General Discussion. :) Thats where the REAL ship balancing discussions are being done you know... Linkage --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Xendie btw.. i know of a guy who kills properly kitted out astartes in his Ishtar. Anything with mwd, 20km scrambler and mid range weapons can do that.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:34:00 - [38] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. Sniping for artillery will not be ineffective, have you ever been in a fleet fight with more than 200ppl? not everyone evn has a chance to get their guns off let alone fire more volleys, this fix will nerf the 1-man-army sniping which is so * as pirates snipe t1 shuttles and frigs. 0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 14:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Tasty Burger -Cheetah is impossible to fit with a cloak + scan probe launcher without a completely gimped setup. Now, yes. But with all the other changes (HP+, etc) it gets +75 cpu (275 cpu vs the 300 cpu of the buzzard) AND the cpu reduction of the skill gets doubled (well, not doubled, but instead of cloak needing 100 cpu ad lvl 4 it will need 50 cpu, for example). I think all cheetah users can wave any cpu problems bye-bye. Unless of cource the new probe launcher needs much more cpu than the old one, but even then..it has with skills only 31.25 less cpu than the buzzard and 1 more low slot which it can use for a co-proc.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. Sniping for artillery will not be ineffective, have you ever been in a fleet fight with more than 200ppl? not everyone evn has a chance to get their guns off let alone fire more volleys, this fix will nerf the 1-man-army sniping which is so * as pirates snipe t1 shuttles and frigs. 200 ppl fleets are not the only kind of combat in Eve!! And on my point of view 200 ppl fleet fight is anying and non fun. If I wanted such type of gameplay I would go play a RTS game.
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:06:00 - [41] Edited by: Nir on 20/10/2006 16:09:48 Now that they're increasing ship HPs even further, whats an Amarr pilot supposed to do? You can't fit a tank on any of our Battleships and use guns at the same time. Sad as it may sound it is Amarr who are forced to rely on Alpha Strikes, not Matari.. Because at least Minmatar CAN reload. With for ex. a Tachygeddon you are out of cap in just over a minute - You better pray that your target is dead by then because you don't get to reload your guns. And don't even think about fitting a tank, 2-3 of your lowslots are filled with Reactor Control Units in the first place. I personally see this as Tuxford's cunning plan to force every Amarr pilot to create a logistics alt to feed him cap transfers after every volley. P.S. All the above wouldn't be so bad IF Amarr had any real DPS to show for in return. I would gladly become useless 1 minute into a fight if I actually received any sort of perk or trade off for that, but we don't..
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:49:00 - [42] Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:52:00 - [43] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ******* huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. speed? not really that much more. painful guns? ok they are least damaging. sniping needs a nerf? sure, then nerf rails too since they are way better for sniping anyways. stababond getting nerfed, sleipnir is nerfed now that crystals are getting changed to shield hp...
Alhandra Slayer Minmatar Chuskarl's Family The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:23:00 - [44] if they nerf minmatar too much... ...i will nerf their life yarrrrrrrr
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:25:00 - [45] Ishkur is the best HAC. And Vaga will suck without its multiple WCS's in lows seeings they are getting nerfed. And the more WCS's the worse the punishment. (If two good modules are stacked and start working poorly, does that mean that if I stack the new WCS's on my vaga, ill actually get a BONUS?) Quote: Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr
Metis AT	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:40:00 - [46] What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. It was already a fab HAC (so long as you didn't bring the Vagabond into the picture). It's now going to be even better, especially now the turret ships that use cap for their weapons will have a much higher chance of capping out.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. Yeah, I think it will be good enough with the 5 guns, 2 nos fitting. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Xendie Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Metis AT	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:02:00 - [50] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Yup as i see it, artillery is a bit fubar after this, but almost the entire amarr fleet is going to be out of cap before they break anyones tank. All amarr will be flying curse/pilgrims for the forseeable future.
Chee Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:29:00 - [51] ironic, i started an amarr character back in march to play with along with my minmatar main. I considered one of them had to be on the good/decent side of 'wheel of balance' at any given time. That just got souped
hitech redneck Digital Mind Crimes	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Zosimos Sabina Oh well. FOTM and the bandwagon's been going around for ages. You can't win 'em all . One of these days Caldari are going to suffer being on the bottom of the totem pole... some day. please tell me how they are on the top. most of thier ships suck for pvp.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:53:00 - [53] Originally by: Tasty Burger Tuxford has no idea what he's talking about Correct. I wonder how long it will take CCP to realise this and send him to guard post duty on some abandoned outpost in Catch.
Evil Sulu Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore. ------------- Recruiting 5 Killers
Kolhell Minmatar CAD Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:40:00 - [55] thanks for recognizing that this will affect both races negatively... methinks we should band together and declare jihad on tux :( ------------------------- bury the hatchet
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:04:00 - [56] Seeing as though he listens to all the other idiots whining about how their dominix/raven cant kill everything because their setup sucks, maybe he'll listen to us.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:43:00 - [57] I'm starting to see my current specialization in all kinds of med guns starting to paying off. btw I'm training med laser specialization, if you wonder. Learned looooong time ago that if you want to avoid nerfs like this, nothing better than go all races instead specializing in one. after lasers spec'ing, 4 races cruiser to lvl5 here I go! ANYWAYS, people are right, and I totally agree with this thread. Minmatar guns will get b0rked with this, and it will accentuate the laser's drawbacks by allot. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Metis AT All amarr will be flying curse/pilgrims for the forseeable future. We are allready doing that, but not when the nos nerf is introduced N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:59:00 - [59] Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. main problem is you'll have to go get more ammo after one kill In rust we trust!!! Right here Tux ,,\|,,
Sergej Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:00:00 - [60] Originally by: Evil Sulu Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore.
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:04:00 - [61] Originally by: Sergej Originally by: Evil Sulu Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore. Good balance indeed. Originally by: Tuxford Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums. PROFFESSIONAL Game Balancing.
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:14:00 - [62] Originally by: Evil Sulu Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore. Took me a while to get it (past midnight cough) But I lol'd.
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:29:00 - [63] Originally by: Nir Originally by: Evil Sulu Originally by: Xendie amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. Didn't you hear? Projectiles don't use cap anymore. Took me a while to get it (past midnight cough) But I lol'd. Didn't you know ?? It's official All you 'amarrians' stock up on EMP, fusion (your own explosive crystal ) & PP. But it's truly sad. Originally by: Tuxford Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums. PROFFESSIONAL Game Balancing.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.21 01:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. And how about the fact that every single ship in EVE has 0% EM resistance on shields (exception mini T2 ships ) and that lasers have higher base dmg on shields ??? So as a fact they tear shields in seconds and take more time on armour in contradiction to mini for example , but ofc lets nerf them coz ppl now prefer to tank armour and change the dmg type for amarr also !!!! "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Temp Boi	Posted - 2006.10.21 03:16:00 - [65] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 19/10/2006 20:16:51 Looks like I'll be flying my NOS-Domi character and ignoring my Minmatar character for the foreseable future. This game would be much more interesting if there were 4 different races of ships that were actually worth using. I guess we'll have to settle with 2 out of 4. Buu ***** huu. So the game is a little harder for minnie. You still have speed, you still have painful gunz. So artillary will be quite ineffective - so what? Sniping needs a nerf and this will provide it. You still get your stabbabond, your huginn + rapier, your sliepnir. It wont make alot of difference to any of these ships. Oh shut the up, I'm sure thats easy for you to say as a gallente character. Those of us who are Minmatar spec'd essentially just got ** over. You can still sit it your "I win button" domi and ***everything that moves. We were already disadvantaged, now almost all of our strengths are gone.
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.10.21 04:35:00 - [66] Edited by: Rehmes on 21/10/2006 04:36:17 I read it but im still stupified who down right ridiculus things r gonna get. The Matari have the lowest dps in game, arties' alpha dmg hasnt been as high as it used to. The magazine size/dmg of ACs r sad. This hp boost is truly gonna mess things up for all matar. Then u have the ammarians who already have problems of their own as it is; are gonna have to cope with further problems. They will run out of cap centuries before they kill anything, and lets not mention that their base dmg of EM doesnt help as things r (something which doesnt seem like itl be addressed atm) I would like to see the day when i undock and i see an evened out ratio of races outside the station, not the 20 thousand ravens/domis i see. In the past 3 months i have only witnessed the sighting of 4 armaggedons and 2 apocaypses, jesus christ comon. Tux plz tell us there must be something you are working on to fix this before it launches cuz otherwise things will get pretty grim in EVE.
Rivek Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.21 05:54:00 - [67] Most of you are way over-reacting. How about you crunch some numbers and at least attempt a wholistic analysis of the proposed changes instead of just whinning about your own ships supposed shortcommings.
Abati	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:04:00 - [68] I like Eve so much my peeps.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:09:00 - [69] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/10/2006 08:10:52 The more I think about it, I think the extra hitpoints will be an advantage to the minmatar, specially if they change the ammo size of projectiles like they are considering. While other races will use more cap in the fights both for tanking and damage (except caldari missile ships and drone boats), minmatar can use that to their advantage for a longer period of time in the fight (until they pop). :) We'll see how it turns out. Kali is coming to the test server in just a few days it seems... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:24:00 - [70] Thank good for crosstraining and gradually ruining char. Hp increase is just , so much more jamming, nossing... No thanks.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:37:00 - [71] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel And how about the fact that every single ship in EVE has 0% EM resistance on shields (exception mini T2 ships ) and that lasers have higher base dmg on shields ??? So as a fact they tear shields in seconds and take more time on armour in contradiction to mini for example , but ofc lets nerf them coz ppl now prefer to tank armour and change the dmg type for amarr also !!!! Amarr kill shield "in seconds" with EM, minnie kill armor "in seconds" with exp, and since we have equal amount of armor & shieldtankers ingame thats balanced. Oh, wait..
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:41:00 - [72] Originally by: Aramendel Amarr kill shield "in seconds" with EM, minnie kill armor "in seconds" with exp, and since we have equal amount of armor & shieldtankers ingame thats balanced. Oh, wait.. Think of it this way... you can kill Ravens. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:47:00 - [73] Edited by: LUKEC on 21/10/2006 08:48:37 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Aramendel Amarr kill shield "in seconds" with EM, minnie kill armor "in seconds" with exp, and since we have equal amount of armor & shieldtankers ingame thats balanced. Oh, wait.. Think of it this way... you can kill Ravens. You need to lock them and in case you manage to lock them, you need to keep them there
Brutus King	Posted - 2006.10.21 08:53:00 - [74] All of you people just don't know how to fit a Minmatar ship.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.21 09:01:00 - [75] Originally by: Brutus King All of you people just don't know how to fit a Minmatar ship. Unfortunatly you fail at scoring forum points as nobody knows who the hell you are. Until your reputation has increased, you will have to back up comments like that with the most amazing and perfect setups ever devised for a Minmatar ship. If you can't do that, I suggest you keep your witless comments to yourself.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.21 09:47:00 - [76] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Stiletto = best ceptor Vagabond = best hac Jaguar = best af Cheetah = best cov op Sleipnir = best CS Huginn/Rapier = good stuff Minmatar Carrier = best for POS shield recharging Nanophoon = \o/ Crow/Taranis tied with ishtar tied with iskur they all suck they all are good cept NH they all are good why is this even listed? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Adril Alatar Minmatar No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.21 09:56:00 - [77] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. Yeah, I think it will be good enough with the 5 guns, 2 nos fitting. Muninn has no tank. 2 resistance holes... So you can decide to fit a 5 slot tank (800mm plating because 1600mm doesnt fit) or 2 slot tank and 3 damage mods.... Have fun.... For close range i prefer a vagabond after patch.... 11000 shield hp with good recharge rate and good resistances.... Vagabond with Barrage + passive shield tank will still be uber when Kali hits.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.21 11:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel And how about the fact that every single ship in EVE has 0% EM resistance on shields (exception mini T2 ships ) and that lasers have higher base dmg on shields ??? So as a fact they tear shields in seconds and take more time on armour in contradiction to mini for example , but ofc lets nerf them coz ppl now prefer to tank armour and change the dmg type for amarr also !!!! Amarr kill shield "in seconds" with EM, minnie kill armor "in seconds" with exp, and since we have equal amount of armor & shieldtankers ingame thats balanced. Oh, wait.. How about we have equal amount of armour and shield on all ship classes and same weaposn for all classes and same dmg types and same base shield dmg and same speed etc etc . Oh wait ... "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.21 11:51:00 - [79] Originally by: Adril Alatar Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Metis AT What about a large plated AC Muninn now...That is starting to look like a nice cruiser. Yeah, I think it will be good enough with the 5 guns, 2 nos fitting. Muninn has no tank. 2 resistance holes... So you can decide to fit a 5 slot tank (800mm plating because 1600mm doesnt fit) or 2 slot tank and 3 damage mods.... Have fun.... For close range i prefer a vagabond after patch.... 11000 shield hp with good recharge rate and good resistances.... Vagabond with Barrage + passive shield tank will still be uber when Kali hits. Please learn about Muninns. Virtually/all HACs who fit a 1600mm plate do it by fitting a small rep alongside it. The advantage the Muninn has is that it can also fit a full rack of guns, launchers and mwd without a single fitting mod. Add 2 hardeners and either an EANM or Gyrostab and you're sorted. No it's not a Vagabond, nor is it trying to be. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
ChalSto The Galactic Empire Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.21 11:51:00 - [80] Quote: tuxford: Personally I like the idea of the possibility of running out of charges in a fight. Cap boosters have come something of a must have module and its come up to the point that the one with bigger cargo hold wins. Well ok not quite but still you should see my point. Ammo is a different story its well possible that we'd reduce the volume of those Yea....very funny to run out of cap in the half of the engagement RIP Blasterthron, geddon, apoc Ok then....lets all train to missile-ships then \o/ sooo much fun. Or maybe Nos-Domi will still rule them all Yep tux......nice chages. After 3 years in EvE, I finaly can say, that I lost more ships due to lag and bugs, than in any battle.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.21 13:24:00 - [81] Originally by: Old Geeza Please learn about Muninns. Virtually/all HACs who fit a 1600mm plate do it by fitting a small rep alongside it. The advantage the Muninn has is that it can also fit a full rack of guns, launchers and mwd without a single fitting mod. Add 2 hardeners and either an EANM or Gyrostab and you're sorted. No it's not a Vagabond, nor is it trying to be. Please learn about Ruptures. Muninn is not worth it since what you boast about Muninn can easily be done with a rupture with just a bit less dps The Muninn is and always will be a crap autocannon platform when its little brother can do nearly the same job at 90mil less the cost. The muninn is built for artillery especially with its tracking bonus. Remember t2 ammo for arties have tracking penalties... what do you think a tracking bonus on it is for? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.21 13:28:00 - [82] Lets see... How long has the Muninn had a tracking bonus? How long has T2 ammo been released for? _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.21 14:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Old Geeza Lets see... How long has the Muninn had a tracking bonus? How long has T2 ammo been released for? Lets see... How many monkeys will it take for you to see that a tracking bonus means didly to auto cannons? How many posts must you make to give you self esteem that think you know what you're talking about? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.21 14:29:00 - [84] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. And how about the fact that every single ship in EVE has 0% EM resistance on shields (exception mini T2 ships ) and that lasers have higher base dmg on shields ??? So as a fact they tear shields in seconds and take more time on armour in contradiction to mini for example , but ofc lets nerf them coz ppl now prefer to tank armour and change the dmg type for amarr also !!!! and the fact that all standard shield tank setups have 1 em 2 invulns so the EM res is higher than kinetic or thermal
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.21 14:40:00 - [85] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel How about we have equal amount of armour and shield on all ship classes and same weaposn for all classes and same dmg types and same base shield dmg and same speed etc etc . Oh wait ... Young padawan still has much to learn if he thinks diversity and balance cannot be achieved at the same time.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.21 14:43:00 - [86] Originally by: Blind Man Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Minnie is still fine. And amarr will be better. Who tanks hard and does good dps? Amarr. Amarr gunships will be more important now that there are more tanks to break. And the curse gets a big boost because its nos will be more useful now. Shamis problem with that is that amarr gunships and their dmg spread on the crystals are balanced for 60-75% EM resists on armor, now everyone and their mother will run around with 40k armor with 85%+ EM resist. amarr ships will run out of cap way before they will end that kind of tank. And how about the fact that every single ship in EVE has 0% EM resistance on shields (exception mini T2 ships ) and that lasers have higher base dmg on shields ??? So as a fact they tear shields in seconds and take more time on armour in contradiction to mini for example , but ofc lets nerf them coz ppl now prefer to tank armour and change the dmg type for amarr also !!!! and the fact that all standard shield tank setups have 1 em 2 invulns so the EM res is higher than kinetic or thermal It's more this way: 2x invul or 2x invul + em hardener... but second one is rare since there's not so many ships with so much medslots.
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.21 15:17:00 - [87] i'm just grateful i didn't pick Ammar sad, really --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=411964Gaming La
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.21 15:28:00 - [88] Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford. I lol'd. [EVE TASK BAR?]
Martyr 01 Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.21 16:30:00 - [89] After reading the amarr and min related responses in that dev blog I have to say, I agree with tasty. Either he has no idea what he's talking about and just showed a worryingly weak grasp of the general factors affecting playing with amarr/min ships or was being worryingly flippant and unnecessarily vague and mysterious. Either way; I'm worried.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.10.21 16:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Old Geeza Lets see... How long has the Muninn had a tracking bonus? How long has T2 ammo been released for? Lets see... How many monkeys will it take for you to see that a tracking bonus means didly to auto cannons? How many posts must you make to give you self esteem that think you know what you're talking about? A tracking bonus helps all ships (remember Hail has a tracking penalty too?). It's the optimal range bonus that is wasted on autocannons. Secondly, so because I have only recently started posting on these forums that automatically means I have no idea what I'm talking about? Good grief. Between the clueless idiots and the elitist "vets" (which lets be honest, means those who have posted the longest, not those who have played the logest) it's no wonder this forum is in such a dysmal state. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 09:28:00 - [91] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel How about we have equal amount of armour and shield on all ship classes and same weaposn for all classes and same dmg types and same base shield dmg and same speed etc etc . Oh wait ... Young padawan still has much to learn if he thinks diversity and balance cannot be achieved at the same time. If u cant put a valid post then take ur stupid smack somewhere else , the diversity is already balanced ppl use different setups and armour tank shield based ships for example ravens etc doesnt mean that it isnt ! "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 10:02:00 - [92] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel the diversity is already balanced ppl use different setups and armour tank shield based ships for example ravens etc doesnt mean that it isnt ! No its not. As long as some weapons doesnt use cap and lets to tank around the clock while others weapons makes you are down to 50% cap after a few volleys doesnt make it balanced. Raven pwn Amarr at both damage and tank. Ofcorse you think this is balace because you dont know the meaning of the word. And now, Minmatar is getting rubbished by Tuxford as well, but you cant see that because you are.....special. -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 10:08:00 - [93] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel the diversity is already balanced ppl use different setups and armour tank shield based ships for example ravens etc doesnt mean that it isnt ! No its not. As long as some weapons doesnt use cap and lets to tank around the clock while others weapons makes you are down to 50% cap after a few volleys doesnt make it balanced. Raven pwn Amarr at both damage and tank. Ofcorse you think this is balace because you dont know the meaning of the word. And now, Minmatar is getting rubbished by Tuxford as well, but you cant see that because you are.....special. Making fun of a typo and calling me spechial just shows how mature u r , realy it does . I aint gonna be bothered replying to trash talkers like u , go whine all ur ass off till u quit , changes will be made and we will be playing this game long time after u quit "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
banannagirl Minmatar The U-B-H-C	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:13:00 - [94] minmatar wont team with amarr in a million years they hate each other ... gallente and minmat are buddy buddies ..! regards BG Link removed, advertising services for real world money is not allowed on the forums - Wrangler
Ogdru Jahad Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:35:00 - [95] zealots, absolutions and apocs if set up right never run out of cap. not fussed about the rest. - Think your having a bad day? Imagine this, Your a siamese Twin joined at the hip,Your brother is *** & your not, His lover is comming around and you only have one bottom.
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:42:00 - [96] Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld 2 wcs + 2 gyro is good. Astarte can't do that. that amused me as well - When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:45:00 - [97] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Tasty Burger -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk. yeah, so it outdamages a nighthawk, does that make sleipnir best cc, or jsut better then nighthawk? - When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 11:49:00 - [98] Originally by: Mudkest Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Tasty Burger -CCs are irrelevant, and Sleip gets outdamaged by most of the CCs anyway. -Slipnier = By far better than a nighthawk. yeah, so it outdamages a nighthawk, does that make sleipnir best cc, or jsut better then nighthawk? Minmatar have the best solo hac (Vaga) and also the best insta lock tackler (stiletto) and now u want also the slip to be the best CC , what also do u want ? An insta BBQ button to any target u lock ? This was to compare between ppl who keep saying Caldari are overpowered . "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 12:11:00 - [99] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel If u cant put a valid post then take ur stupid smack somewhere else ,... Talking to yourself? Pray, show me your "valid post" here? Everything I have seen of you is just plain rubbish, just trolling without saying anything at all. Plain out fact is that there are significantly more armortankers than shieldtankers. In EOS 02 CCP published the total BS numbers ingame. Even if you handled all caldari BSs as shieldtankers and 1/3 of all tempests as well you still got twice as many armortankers than shieldtankers. If that is "balance" for you you should look the word up.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 12:20:00 - [100] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel If u cant put a valid post then take ur stupid smack somewhere else ,... Talking to yourself? Pray, show me your "valid post" here? Everything I have seen of you is just plain rubbish, just trolling without saying anything at all. Plain out fact is that there are significantly more armortankers than shieldtankers. In EOS 02 CCP published the total BS numbers ingame. Even if you handled all caldari BSs as shieldtankers and 1/3 of all tempests as well you still got twice as many armortankers than shieldtankers. If that is "balance" for you you should look the word up. So this padawn rubish u wrote is not considered trollign then You realy dont get it do ya ??? Shield / armour/structure are what compose the ship total hit points , u have 0% EM on hsields and 60% on Armour in gegeral on every signle ship in eve with exception to mini T2 ships liek vaga and munin , if ur dealing mainly EM and thermal dmg ur takign shields out fasters and slower on armour , just like u have 60% expl on shields resistance and 10 % on armour which will be the reverse of this stiuation , shields will go down slower and amrour will go down faster . Again i dotn care if ppl keep tanking armour on ravens , the fact is this is the ship resistances and the fact also raven for example has mroe shields than armour , ppl tank armour so u can kill them faster is not realy a problem since most BS can deal 3 types of dmg at least , Guns deal 2 types of dmg and the droens u carry deal the 3rd , some BS deal 4 types of dmg but they have their disadvantages so nothign is perfect , all have their pros and cons . If u cant see any point or valid argument then i realy cba to explain more. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.22 12:47:00 - [101] Alrighty, having skimmed this thread, I have the following things to say: 1.) I don't normally make personal attacks, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Lofty. Go sell your Gallente characters on the sell forum, then buy Minmatar-only specced characters. Following that, spend a month flying Minmatar, including the tempest and typhoon, then come back and have a chat. Until then, you are not qualified to talk on the matter. 2.) Guys, quit bashing on Tuxford. The more grief you give him (as opposed to reasoned, intelligent discourse), the less likely he is to want to help us. I'm just as worried about projectiles in general and their crap DPS post-rigs, but I try to avoid personal attacks. 3.) Everything is relative. While Minmatar DPS may look workable at first glance, you have to realize that the more tanking gets increased, the less the relative effectiveness of all the weapons becomes. The change is more pronounced in low-DPS weapons than high-DPS. This means that even autocannons will be hurting once the tanking changes introduced by rigs come into play (hell, autocannons are sub-par now, at least on the battleship level). 4.) This has been said a thousand times, but the typhoon doesn't have enough grid or CPU to put on a proper fitting. Until this changes, the bonus that was changed from projectile optimal range to missile rate of fire will still not be enough. 5.) The tempest is neither powerful offensively nor defensively. It inflicts crap DPS, tanks like a wet paper sack (in comparison to other battleships), and the fact that it's faster than the others is nice, but not enough to counteract the first two. Versatility? Meh. A ship that isn't good at any one thing but is rather mediocre at all things is not versatile; true versatility comes when you can choose to do any one of a number of different things and do it well. I would add a sixth about the sleipnir not being able to fit a web with a properly shield tanked autocannon setup, but I won't be able to use mine for about another two weeks, so I don't know how much that affects its actual PvP ability. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Duct tape for the lose! -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 15:50:00 - [102] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel So this padawn rubish u wrote is not considered trollign then You realy dont get it do ya ??? Shield / armour/structure are what compose the ship total hit points , u have 0% EM on hsields and 60% on Armour in gegeral on every signle ship in eve with exception to mini T2 ships liek vaga and munin , if ur dealing mainly EM and thermal dmg ur takign shields out fasters and slower on armour , just like u have 60% expl on shields resistance and 10 % on armour which will be the reverse of this stiuation , shields will go down slower and amrour will go down faster . I do not know which game you are playing, but in eve people usually fit something which is called "tank". This tank can consist for of harderners (with the most effective being 2 EAN2 + DC) and/or plates. In both cases we have a 100% effective hitpoint increase (or more in case of oversized plates) for armor. Same effect with shieldtank. Now, as said, under perfect conditions with the current base armor/shieldtank distribution we have twice as many armortankers as shieldtankers. Meaning we have out of 3 ships 2 with 200% armor, 100% shields and 1 ship with 100% armor, 200% shield. An "average" out of those has 166% armor, 133% shield. Also, unlike in your dreamworld armortanking ships usually have more base armor than shield and shieldtankers no base shield than armor, so the difference is, if anything, bigger than this.
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:03:00 - [103] Well, after reading the changes and seeing what is in store for Minnie and Amarr ship users I am just giving in. I fly all Amarr but T2 and Titans with beam/pulse laser spec but now... Started training up my caldari ship and weapon skills since they seem to be the flavor of choice for the Dev's. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:12:00 - [104] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel You realy dont get it do ya ??? Shield / armour/structure are what compose the ship total hit points , u have 0% EM on hsields and 60% on Armour in gegeral on every signle ship in eve with exception to mini T2 ships liek vaga and munin , if ur dealing mainly EM and thermal dmg ur takign shields out fasters and slower on armour , just like u have 60% expl on shields resistance and 10 % on armour which will be the reverse of this stiuation , shields will go down slower and amrour will go down faster . Again i dotn care if ppl keep tanking armour on ravens , the fact is this is the ship resistances and the fact also raven for example has mroe shields than armour , ppl tank armour so u can kill them faster is not realy a problem since most BS can deal 3 types of dmg at least , Guns deal 2 types of dmg and the droens u carry deal the 3rd , some BS deal 4 types of dmg but they have their disadvantages so nothign is perfect , all have their pros and cons . If u cant see any point or valid argument then i realy cba to explain more. I don't think you understand the arguments that other people are giving - which means you aren't arguing against them in any way. You're just kind of talking and not understanding what the others, such as Aramendel, are saying. They're saying even though Amarr eat shields up - most ships do not care about their shields. Only the Raven and Scorpion...and sometimes the Tempest (in terms of battleships) really use shield tanks over the others. If there were more ships in the game that preferred shield tanking (Rokh and tier 3 Minmatar BS for example) the Amarr would be a bit more effective. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Lisento Slaven They're saying even though Amarr eat shields up - most ships do not care about their shields. Only the Raven and Scorpion...and sometimes the Tempest (in terms of battleships) really use shield tanks over the others. If there were more ships in the game that preferred shield tanking (Rokh and tier 3 Minmatar BS for example) the Amarr would be a bit more effective. Ferox Raven Scorp Moa Carcal Eagle Hapry Cerb Hawk Tempest nighthawk vulture Rohk aint in game yet so i wotn even go there i am tlakign abotu stuff thats already in game Yes i dont understand what i am talking clearly sicne the above list of ships are shield based ships but no they are not fit for the argument as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:33:00 - [106] Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 22/10/2006 17:33:54 Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Lisento Slaven They're saying even though Amarr eat shields up - most ships do not care about their shields. Only the Raven and Scorpion...and sometimes the Tempest (in terms of battleships) really use shield tanks over the others. If there were more ships in the game that preferred shield tanking (Rokh and tier 3 Minmatar BS for example) the Amarr would be a bit more effective. Ferox Raven Scorp Moa Carcal Eagle Hapry Cerb Hawk Tempest nighthawk vulture Rohk aint in game yet so i wotn even go there i am tlakign abotu stuff thats already in game Yes i dont understand what i am talking clearly sicne the above list of ships are shield based ships but no they are not fit for the argument as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based. I only listed 3 BS because I said in terms of BS. If I wanted to list every other ship in the game you didn't mention the proportion is insane =P EDIT: And I said you don't understand WHAT THE OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:04:00 - [107] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel ....as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based. Exactly. It isn't. Care to explain why it "should" be enough?
Lucian Alucard Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.10.22 20:51:00 - [108] Radios just need their old Thermal damage back now. Say a 8 Em/12 Therm Spread for Raidios and Auroras stay as is. Also the Cap drain bonus does need to be upped since if you do the math the Abaddon and Geddon will ((And in the case of the geddon already do!)) burn out their cap horrendously fast.
Slender Brenda Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.22 23:01:00 - [109] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel ....as if it is not even enough that 1 entire race is shield based. Exactly. It isn't. Care to explain why it "should" be enough? Technically, domi was good shield tanker before they boosted plates, eanms and most importantly, nerfed gank setups and changed ecm. I remember 6x h. nosf domis with shield tank and full rack of pdus. Sounds horrible these days, doesn't it? Thing is that em damage sucks in smaller engagements if people tank ships. And if they tank(wcs 4tw? ), it's armor due to fubared ecm/scram/injector stuff....
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 23:09:00 - [110] You misunderstand - I did not ask why most people armortank. The reasons for that are obvious. Yazoul seems to be the opinion that 1 shieldtank based race "is enough" for balance issues between armor & shieldtank (and the resulting resistance issues of EM damage). I was asking him to explain this statement.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.23 07:10:00 - [111] Originally by: Aramendel You misunderstand - I did not ask why most people armortank. The reasons for that are obvious. Yazoul seems to be the opinion that 1 shieldtank based race "is enough" for balance issues between armor & shieldtank (and the resulting resistance issues of EM damage). I was asking him to explain this statement. Caldari are not the only race that has the capability to shield tank , almost 80% of mini ships can , both of their BS and their BC in additon to their hacs and afs can shield tank so u have got almost a 50% of ships in game that has the ability to shield tank and as it was explained above ur post that domi also can be a shield tanker. Ppl choosign to armour or shield tank varies according to setups and situations so again if one of these setups becomes the flavour of the month then CCP wont nerf the whole thing just to counter that setup , ppl are the ones who have to use their braisn and try and coutner it with a different one . As for the amarr whine about EAN and DC , did anyone wonder what the droens u got are supposed to do ??? Geddon carries 5 heavy droens and they can be T2 , lets say its EM dmg will suck on armour while its thermal and Berserkers T2 do all the work , so again where is the argument ??? If ppl look out of the box , try sniping a harpy at 180 km with an eagle (Eagle is supposed to be the sniping hac ) and when u see the pathetic dmg that wotn even tickel its shields then u will see that everythign is not and WILL NOT Be a coocki cutter. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.23 07:51:00 - [112] Yes, we are in trouble, but all I know is. Victory will be sweater after winning in my Amarr ships. If they are broken, I will find a way to make them work. Each race gets its turn to be the 'overpowered' ones. Its like a tourch that is passed around. With or without it, I have managed to survive - and many others will continue to make due. I fear however that it is not the Caldari shield tankers that are going to emerge with the beacon of power, but the Gallente. . . But they will burn to my lasers all the same.
Tommy Vercetti Minmatar Custodes Valhallae Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:20:00 - [113] Edited by: Tommy Vercetti on 23/10/2006 08:21:18 Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Caldari are not the only race that has the capability to shield tank , almost 80% of mini ships can , both of their BS and their BC in additon to their hacs and afs can shield tank so u have got almost a 50% of ships in game that has the ability to shield tank and as it was explained above ur post that domi also can be a shield tanker. Erm, good luck shield tanking a phoon with 4 mids, even a pest with 5 is hard depending on setups. How about you give caldari a bs with 4 mids and ask it to shield tank. 100% of minmatars ships are capable of fitting shield mods, how many are capable of doing it better than an armour tank. 80%? Originally by: Pestillence It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
Dano Sarum Giants in the Playground Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:26:00 - [114] Well I have to say, Its obvious tux wants fights to last longer, but hes done it in the most obvious and most idiotic way. Its going to come down to cap wars now, or maybe even ammo. Since all gallente ships can basicly use dronebays they win AGAIN... stupidly high armor on them too now, a full rack of NOS and there we have it... drones kill and we all die. Yes minmitar are now screwed. On the plus side as somone else said, hes **ing off more then just the amarr now. For the love of god I wish these changes would appear on Sisi first, test it, get the feedback and THEN announce it on public forums rather then the "this is whats happening in kali, not really tested it or thought about it just had an idea.... whats that you say? I just **ed off 50k people?" ========== -Dano GitP Recruitment
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.23 08:39:00 - [115] Edited by: Laboratus on 23/10/2006 08:40:12 Originally by: Tasty Burger -Vagabond is a wet paper bag and hits like one, its only saving grace is that it is fast. . . . -LOL at carrier being good. -Nanophoon sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing/isnt running an npc setup. I have a few piles of flowting domi dust that disagrees with your assesment with the Vagas damage ability. And You clearly don't use carriers, (Yea the LOL gave you away) And the Phoon is now the most versitile BS out there. Granted you need to be able to use T2 Launchers, Turrets and Drones to get the best out of it, but hey. Oh yea, and a ** load of fitting mods, but can't win them all... Originally by:** TheEndofTheWorld Ishtar is a mini-dominix. Can't really do much better than the dominix can. Vagabond actually has a different role. It does something that a BS can't do.(TBH, ishtar, deimos, zealot, cerb are all ... uhm, cool to fly but not exactly practical) Recons are all good, each have different roles and are all useful(ok, some a bit more than others, but...) You can buy and fit 5 Domis for the price of an ishtar. With minimal improvement in performance. Ye, it has lower sig radius etc, but it just isn't the same thing. Face to face the Ishtar just can't hold it's own against the Domi. Only a fool brings a knife to a NOS fight, as they say. Minmatar Recons. Webbing from outside 100km. Autch. I never saw that one coming before it was too late. Mind control and tin hats
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:20:00 - [116] Originally by: Tommy Vercetti Erm, good luck shield tanking a phoon with 4 mids, even a pest with 5 is hard depending on setups. How about you give caldari a bs with 4 mids and ask it to shield tank. 100% of minmatars ships are capable of fitting shield mods, how many are capable of doing it better than an armour tank. 80%? Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:25:00 - [117] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy As has been discussed in many 'OMG I'm so out of the box' threads before, saying "I can do this" doesn't make us disbelieve facts we all know to be true. A 4 midslot slot ship, with poor cap and poor base hp, cannot shield tank effectively. I won't even bother arguing about the fact you're talking about PvE, and not PvP. Although given most of your comments so far, I really don't expect you to understand the differences... Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:36:00 - [118] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy As has been discussed in many 'OMG I'm so out of the box' threads before, saying "I can do this" doesn't make us disbelieve facts we all know to be true. A 4 midslot slot ship, with poor cap and poor base hp, cannot shield tank effectively. I won't even bother arguing about the fact you're talking about PvE, and not PvP. Although given most of your comments so far, I really don't expect you to understand the differences... Take a chill pill , i was merely givign an example about tanking. And if i can do it what makes it sooo unbelivable? i aitn even usign faction or officer mods just normal T2 or best named, u questioning my pvp abilities coz i made an example about lvl 4 missions ? Just LOL Given most of ur whining about quiting coz CCP didnt give u the OMGINSTAPWN ship or race , plz quit and rid us of ur whining. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.23 10:42:00 - [119] Oveur has already said that they are looking at the decreased value of artillerys alpha strike and there are maybe a few things that might help balance it. It sounds bad a the minute but hold off and see things in full before going into panic mode. The cap advantages of projectiles will certainlycome into play with longer fights, although this might take an ammo size reduction or magazine increase, that is yet to be seen. If fight are now going to last twice as long then a ship whose weapons fire without using cap has at least one thing it its favour.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.23 10:48:00 - [120] Fix EANM, switch crystal EM for thermal and vice versa, boost artillery dmg mod by x percent => decrease artillery rate of fire x percent -- boost autocannon dmg mod by x percent => decrase autocannon rate of fire x percent, projectile ammo should be 0.001 m3 per unit -- ALL THIS BEFORE APPLYING THE IDIOTIC 50% HP BOOST PATCH -- and if you do all these changes: amarr will be FIXED, minmatar won't have alpha strike problems post-patch as well as autocannons running out of ammo. Or i will blow up myself !!
Tommy Vercetti Minmatar Custodes Valhallae Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:00:00 - [121] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Erm, I shield tank it enough to even take a beating in lvl 4 missions tyvm , 4 Mill in engineerign does come in handy I wish you would read posts. Yes the ship can equip some shield mods, but in 99 out of 100 situations an armour tank will be more effective. If were all such bloody shield tankers, where are the midslots? Oh thats right, Caldari are midslot shield specialists, minmatar are supposed to do it on 3 slots. Originally by: Pestillence It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:02:00 - [122] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Caldari are not the only race that has the capability to shield tank , almost 80% of mini ships can , both of their BS and their BC in additon to their hacs and afs can shield tank so u have got almost a 50% of ships in game that has the ability to shield tank and as it was explained above ur post that domi also can be a shield tanker. And 99% of all ships in eve can use a gatling rail. So why do we not see many ships using it? Oh, right, because have the ability has nothing to do whatsoever with "it's a viable option". Also, even if we go with your flawed, twisted line of thought, armortank is still far more common. While a domi can be a (bad) shieldtanker the raven (and other "normally" shieldtanking ships) can also be a (bad) armortanker. So, if you stretch it shieldtankers up to "can barely do it" we have ~50% of all ships which can mount a shieldtank. But, if you apply the same thing to armortanks we have ~80% of all ships in eve which can mount an armortank. No matter how you twist it, armortanks >> shieldtanks in numbers.
Al Haquis Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.23 11:02:00 - [123] I have a Brilliant soulution to your problems guys. Stop flying Minnie ships and STFU and lets see how the changes come out. Think me and Shamis Orzoz will be happy beeing the only two people flying Minnie ships out there. With love from Al Haquis

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