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Considering quitting in light of the recently announced ship changes?

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Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:15:00 - [91] At least wait to test the changes to see how they translate into existing game mechanics. Minmatar have the worst sniping DPS, but use no cap and utilize the best damage type (exp/kin). Amarr have the best sniping DPS, but at the expense of the highest cap use and worst damage types. Rail boats are kinda in the middle, doing solid DPS and using moderate cap. I believe I read somewhere that the Rokh actually ran out of cap in testing, maybe from the coldfront chat? That's interesting as it looks like the best of the lot after the changes, but then you have to factor in that shield tankers have problems regenerating cap in that they can't use relays, and all their mids are used for the tank. Think a wait and see approach is in order.
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:24:00 - [92] The fact is that everybody is complaining for nothing... Kali I, will see the introduction of Combat Boosters and RIGS, can anyone in here tell us how they will affect the ships ? No Nobody knows what kind of effects RIGS will do, will they give better cap recharge, lower cap consumption, more sensor strenght? I could go on and on ... Thats 2/3 new modules in every ship, that will make all the diference in the world. Combat boosters is the same story... more damage? bigger ROF ??? .... Forget the old fits and face this like a fresh new start.
Waragha Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:27:00 - [93] Bye bye :] Originally by: Trepkos ... The only difference between GS and NPC's are that GS respawn quicker.
Vincent Almasy	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:30:00 - [94] did they ever speak of a more fair wait to have anti-missile as a valid option? defencers may stop light missles but that's it, worse then that it can't handle larget missiles and has a slow rate of fire.. also amarr and gallente normally can't use defencers from no missile points... if you get a valid missible dence system as a plain high point, like the tractor beam is, then this will lower caldari off the missile high horse aswell as minmitar to use missiles in a simular fashion.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:38:00 - [95] Originally by: dalman So what exactly is your 'alphastrike problem'? That you can't one-volley an industrial from 150km range with the HP boost? Cause for sure you must know the (1400)tempest does almost exactly the same dps as a (425)megathron, without using any cap? word 0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 13:54:00 - [96] I just wonder when CCP are going to get it through their heads that the higher they raise HPs, the more risky it becomes to engage when outnumbered. Here's a summary: Higher HP per ship = more advantage to greater numbers, therefore, more hiding and blobbing until the enemy is outnumbered. This all adds up to less, and more predictable combat. Congratulations CCP on a job well *******d -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
McTaggart Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:11:00 - [97] Originally by: DeadDuck Nobody knows what kind of effects RIGS will do, will they give better cap recharge, lower cap consumption, more sensor strenght? I could go on and on ... Another tanking buff wasn't it? Or at least definately not a gank one.
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:44:00 - [98] Edited by: Omoshiroi on 20/10/2006 15:47:12 For a game that is supposed to have a relatively mature player base it has always astounded me the reaction that occurs when changes are announced. I remember this with the so called Drone nerf a while ago (reducing the drone limit to 5). Many saw this as a nerf and failed to realise that drones would get an increase in hitpoints and so were able to take more damage (especially from smartbombs). Anyway, thats an arguement for another time.. The Devs are not going to introduce game breaking changes. This is a business as well as a game and so im sure Tux went through the stats involved before introducing them... Dont get me wrong everyone, Im just as passionate about this game as you all are and I want to see this game improve in server performance and game balance. However, just a note that these changes will be tested before being released and we will all have a chance to test them ourselves as well. Therefore there is plenty of time for these changes to be removed, altered, etc if needed. To the people who have cancelled or are thinking of cancelling their accounts, take a step back, breathe deeply and lets see how this unfolds...
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:51:00 - [99] tbh people here are just dumb, if the changes are overpowered they WILL BE CHANGED ofc. Let them happen and THEN SPAM ****. 0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:57:00 - [100] Originally by: Kaeten tbh people here are just dumb, if the changes are overpowered they WILL BE CHANGED ofc. Let them happen and THEN SPAM ****. Well, you put your point across much more directly than I but I totally agree...

Augustus Richter Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.10.20 15:58:00 - [101] If people want to quit EVE because it is evolving, then let them leave. I think it's childish to cry foul because you favorite ship is not the pawnage machine you want, cry me a river. Adapt and overcome or die out, either way stop whining. EVE will be a much more entertaining game without the constanting cry fest. Oh and have fun on WoW with the other kiddies, I'm sure that is where you'll be heading.
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:06:00 - [102] Originally by: Augustus Richter If people want to quit EVE because it is evolving, then let them leave. I think it's childish to cry foul because you favorite ship is not the pawnage machine you want, cry me a river. Adapt and overcome or die out, either way stop whining. EVE will be a much more entertaining game without the constanting cry fest. Oh and have fun on WoW with the other kiddies, I'm sure that is where you'll be heading. Rhetoric 10/10 Content 0/10 -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:13:00 - [103] Originally by: Tar om Congratulations CCP on a job well *******d Well, that wasnt exactly the best way to get your point across either was it?
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:16:00 - [104] Adapt or Die...tbh. (and yes I am worried about small skirmish type pvp gameplay now) Merc Blog
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:21:00 - [105] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 20/10/2006 08:57:08 Originally by: dalman Originally by: Testy Mctest [And free cap? Sure, that would be great if we had a way to use it. The reality is, whether we use cap or not on our guns is irrelevent for artillery because no ship mounting it can use anything relevant that requires cap effectively. Yes, you can't really use your cap. But the difference is, that after some minutes a megathron doesn't have any cap at all and simply can't fire at all. Cap injectors? On a snipe setup megathron ? Not normally. Typically the few mid slots are occupied by some combination of tracking computers and sensor boosters. Take off a sensor booster, and you suddenly cant lock small targets fast enough to get a kill before they warp off. Take off the tracking computer, and you cant hit them even if you do get a lock. This signature space for rent
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:24:00 - [106] Originally by: Omoshiroi Originally by: Tar om Congratulations CCP on a job well *******d Well, that wasnt exactly the best way to get your point across either was it? You forgot to quote the rest of the post where I explained WHY I think they've screwed up. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:33:00 - [107] Originally by: Kaeten tbh people here are just dumb, if the changes are overpowered they WILL BE CHANGED ofc. Let them happen and THEN SPAM ****. You are the only dumb here mate ,we aren't discussing IF they will FIX we are discussing when .Thyphoon broken for ...well 2.5 years if not more,minmatar carrier broken ,arties broken ,etc....And i will not even go into other races broken ships. We love eve and we want change but not some bad change,or a half-yarsed one. I guess you don¦t fly minmatar ships ,/me points at the galente love thread. And why wait for the change to happen when we can changed it now?
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:33:00 - [108] Edited by: Omoshiroi on 20/10/2006 16:35:00 Not at all, that was quite intentional. These changes have not been released, nor have been put on the testing server, not have been tested by you or others, are still in position to be changed, etc... Even though you know all of this, you still say CCP has ****** up... Like I said earlier - take a step back, relax, and we shall see what happens later... I have conserns just like you do but I am not going to react until I know for sure exactly what the results will be. If there is a game breaking change, and they dont do anything about it, THEN I shall join you
Alowishus	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:35:00 - [109] Can I have everyone's stuff?
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:36:00 - [110] Not at all Tar om, that was quite intentional. These changes have not been released, nor have been put on the testing server, not have been tested by you or others, are still in position to be changed, etc... Even though you know all of this, you still say CCP has ****** up... Like I said earlier - take a step back, relax, and we shall see what happens later... I have conserns just like you do but I am not going to react until I know for sure exactly what the results will be. If there is a game breaking change, and they dont do anything about it, THEN I shall join you

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:41:00 - [111] Originally by: Omoshiroi Edited by: Omoshiroi on 20/10/2006 16:36:22 oops, double post 3 minutes apart? :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:43:00 - [112] Originally by: Pesadel0 And why wait for the change to happen when we can changed it now? They havnt been changed yet, and...ah you know what I going to end this post here. If people want to stress about issues that probably wont be issues when they are released then I shall let them continue...
Omoshiroi	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:45:00 - [113] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Omoshiroi Edited by: Omoshiroi on 20/10/2006 16:36:22 oops, double post 3 minutes apart? :) Lol, well Jim I thought I was editing the post I made above, but in fact I created a new post with the same information. ;) God knows what I did...I am going to put that down to a long day at work as Im sure as hell it wasnt my fault....
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:52:00 - [114] Originally by: DeadDuck The fact is that everybody is complaining for nothing... Kali I, will see the introduction of Combat Boosters and RIGS, can anyone in here tell us how they will affect the ships ? No Nobody knows what kind of effects RIGS will do, will they give better cap recharge, lower cap consumption, more sensor strenght? I could go on and on ... Thats 2/3 new modules in every ship, that will make all the diference in the world. Combat boosters is the same story... more damage? bigger ROF ??? .... Forget the old fits and face this like a fresh new start. rigs is all about DEFENCE so every ship will be tanked like hell [read devblogs] and theres little knowed of "boosters" Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Alowishus	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:07:00 - [115] Change is the only thing that keeps the game interesting. When it's the same for a long time combat becomes a science, everyone knows this science and it becomes boring and mundane. I remember being in the Coalition and fighting FIX in FAT-6P. The battles ammounted to 20 second skirmishes where both sides warped in 100km from eachother, aligned to warped out immediately, targeted the first person on the scanner alphabetically (or reverse alphabetically), fired simultaniously and warped out, rinse, repeat. This happened about 60 times in 12 hours. I wanted to drink Clorox. When there is change there is an oppurtunity to come up with new ways to do things. Combat becomes fun for a brief moment until everyone learns the optimal way to do it and it becomes boring again. People say this or that ship will be useless, and true, by conventional standards they might be. The Armageddon was once considered to be the worst BS in game. And with no changes whatsoever to game mechanics, someone came up with the Gankgeddon. Pretty soon everyone in the game was flying one, it was determined to be overpowered and nerfed. Ingenuity, or lack of it, is what will make or break a ship/race, not game mechanics. People fear change, hence the responses thus far. But it'll all be ok.
jerrard iceni Minmatar Knights of Chaos	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:13:00 - [116] just a few quick thoughts/questions (im still at work - damn stocktake) 1. are these changes only proposed changes or things that will definantely happen in kali? 2. the 50% increase to ship hitpoints. how is this split over the 3 segments of the ship? is it going to be a 50% increase to armour,shields,structure or 50% split among the 3? either way 50% seems abit high, especially if plates and so on are getting a boost. 3. are projectiles getting an increase in cap use? i cant see anything from tux about it, but people keep making reference to it. 4. the nerf to wcs seems ok i guess, they needed nerfing. 5.one thing i dont get - why are minnie being hit so hard in these changes, when caldari(best for pve) and gallente(best for pvp) arnt being as heavily effected or in the caldari case (until the ecm changes are announced anyway) getting boosted 6. arties will need looking at. alpha strike is being effected by the armour boosts, but arty damage as a whole will need tweaking. 7. will there be an increase in damage done by gate guns? because with the 50% hitpoint increase and plates/shield boost then people should expect to see alot more gate camps. 8.its a shame that theres a move towards fleet battles. dont get me wrong, the few fleet battles ive been in have been impressive and good fun. but im sure most people enjoy the small scale gang/hit&run/skirmish fights that go on everyday just as much (if not more so)and are where 90% of pvp takes place. i, for one, prefer these fights over blobs/fleet fights. 9. what are these combat boosters and rigs that some guy mentio0ned? final thoughts - sniping is hit hard, which is fair enough. but with all the other changes then all i can see is more blobs, more gate camps and low sec being even emptyier than it is now
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:16:00 - [117] Quote: It reminds me of people who accidentally discovered that the malaria could cure some diseases. Of course, afterwards, you have to recover ... They are trying to fix something by modifying everything, stuff that doesn't need fixing. So I think we have a right to complain about UN-NEEDED changes. Can anyone (tux?) explain clearly why this HP boost is needed? ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Crusix Bargoth	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:20:00 - [118] Originally by: Roxanna Kell if everything gets nurfed, than its a balanced nurf ; p. All skirmishes will last longer thats all. QFTW
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:29:00 - [119] Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/10/2006 17:32:54 Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/10/2006 17:31:39 Originally by: MECTO Originally by: DeadDuck The fact is that everybody is complaining for nothing... Kali I, will see the introduction of Combat Boosters and RIGS, can anyone in here tell us how they will affect the ships ? No Nobody knows what kind of effects RIGS will do, will they give better cap recharge, lower cap consumption, more sensor strenght? I could go on and on ... Thats 2/3 new modules in every ship, that will make all the diference in the world. Combat boosters is the same story... more damage? bigger ROF ??? .... Forget the old fits and face this like a fresh new start. rigs is all about DEFENCE so every ship will be tanked like hell [read devblogs] and theres little knowed of "boosters" Exactly. Nobody knows about combat boosters and their effect in combat... maybe, just maybe, the effects will outclass or even the HP boost ???? RIGS are MAINLY defensive according with development blogs, but mainly doesnt mean ALL. Do we know what are they doing with the tec2 ammo ? Again no. All I wanted to say is that nobody knows whats happening, and are already making assumptions ... do you think that they woke up and said lets boost 50% the HP, or someone said lets screw the the Minmatars ??? There is a team working on balancing and TUX - a member of that team - is the one that makes the connection between CCP and the community.
LeviUK Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:46:00 - [120] No i won't quit but I'll probably go into another dormant phase. I recently finally got around to training Amarr BS 5 but after the EANM2s were introduced, also took Gallente BS to level 4 and trainined for large t2 hybrids just in case. I suppose had I been aware of these proposed changes earlier, I probably would have trained gallente BS 5 instead as there's no feasible way my Geddon will be able to sustain more than 4 -5mins of Tachyon II usage and as for the Abbadon? I doubt even cap boosters will help there. What I'll probably do is go play something else for a few months, read forums and see how things pan out. If the changes affect things as badly as people are crying about, then changes will be inevitable. After that period, I'll sit down and work out whether to retrain my main to specialise more in Gallente than Amarr or move to my alt which has nearly 37m SPs (10.5m in drones) and just hope for close-range fights. -



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