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bonkerss
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
3
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:05:13 -
[31] - Quote
the problem im seeing with removing local is that we regulary form fleets based on intel we are getting. if we dont get intel we dont know what out there then we won't form up and have a fight.
on the other hand it will probably be very nice for hunting ratters:) |
Dani Maulerant
Order of the Valkyrie LOADED-DICE
18
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:09:29 -
[32] - Quote
Only portion i could see anything like this extended to is Sov Null with particular new structures. But Empire Space (which included lowsec obviously) nope. Wouldn't even make sense since Empire stargates handle the traffic and info. |
Flamespar
WarRavens
1310
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:11:25 -
[33] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote: How many of you wait (with excitement) for such an announcement from CCP in a near future? I sure do, it is one things I found totally out of place in a space game.
Also, how many of you would loathe/fear not being able to see "the reds" in local chat?
As long as they create other ways for new players to meet established ones, I'm all for it.
Removal of local might not work that well from a new player point of view.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:28:37 -
[34] - Quote
Garnoo wrote:a single wardec will completly paralyze a hisec corp :D i would love that idea only if it comes with enabling covert cyno in hisec too
I wonder if the device used for pin pointing cloakies also reveals covert cynos.
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Vixel
Sky Fighters
1
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:39:44 -
[35] - Quote
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT BELOW
Local cannot and will not be removed from EVE-Online, ever. It has shaped the way this game has been played to its core since the game was created.
Now should CCP change the mechanics to better balance the meta? In most people's opinion, and mine as well, YES they should.
The most effective way to change local mechanics, not **** people off too much and still make things fair? That one is a doozy.
This idea may have been suggested before, but I haven't seen it around recently. Local should lose it's member list settings and just be a chat window with TOTAL PLAYER COUNT displayed and no member list (immediate updating, read below to see why)
The real fix: CHANGE DSCAN...
Firstly, the directional scanner and scanning menus all need a serious art/graphics/UI overhaul... If you change DSCAN to show 1) name of each player in the current system (could be in a completely separate dscan tab) and BOOM, you have just solved the first issue of local, free intel. Now players have to ACTUALLY press a button to receive information about their surroundings. Just one button press and essentially the same information is available to you.
2) Change from DSCAN to SECTOR SCAN. Some of the current limitations of the current scan system are a) its directional, meaning if you're trying to pinpoint a target, if you're off by a slight bit you'll lose him. This adds in more meta, as you have to familiarize yourself with the system layout and then focus on angles between celestial to pinpoint targets. B) Distance: DSCAN's current distance limit keeps it from being the powerful info tool it should be. This also adds more meta. C) Current UI for the scanner is GOD AWFUL. It needs serious work...
3) Change local chat window to simply reflect TOTAL PLAYER COUNT (immediate), and leave it at that.
In walks DSCANs new replacement, SECTOR SCAN...
SECTOR SCAN:
1: GRID: Map solar systems into a 16 sector grid. Break down each individual grid square into 4 sub-squares (for accuracy and precision) for a total of 64 sectors in each solarsystem (Sector 1A-D, 2A-D, etc..). Overlay onto Solar system map.
2: ICON Filtering: Icons for ships, structures, probes, drones, etc to differentiate them. (SECTOR SCAN FILTER instead of using active Overview Settings)
3: Display: Icon, Ship/Structure Make (harbinger/medium caldari tower, etc...), SECTOR Location
WORKFLOW Hunter: - Pilot X enters system and presses SCAN. Up comes a nicely filtered list result of everything he wants to have displayed to him. First tab shows the SYSTEM SCAN result. (Total Player Count, Total Players Docked, Player Name, and Picture). Second tab shows SECTOR SCAN results (Icon, Ship/Structure Make, Sector). Third tab becomes DSCAN, as to not completely remove its functionality for locational pinging.
- Pilot X spots a hulk in sector 4. He then uses his solarsystem map to pinpoint what exactly is in that sector. He notices a planet y, multiple moons, asteroid belts, and a ore field. From here, Pilot X decides to take a closer look. He selects Sector 4 as his area of interest, and performs a SUBSCAN, this time giving him sub-sector results. Pilot X observes the Hulk is in Sector 4B, and there just so happens to be two belts surrounding planet y in Sector 4B. Pilot warps into DSCAN range of Sector 4 to further pinpoint his target between belt 1 and 2.
Prey: - Pilot Y notices a fluctuation in the total player count from his local chat window. Since the system is usually pretty quiet and this value doesn't change very often, he decides to perform a SCAN to make sure no one is sneaking up on him.
- He notices a new face among the typical crowd of people in his system (Pilot X). He has neutral standing. Pilot Y decides that since this new character doesn't seem like an immediate threat, to simply start pre-aligning out from the asteroid field just in case.
- Pilot Y then checks the sector scan results and looks for unidentified Pilot X by filtering just to ships, and notices a new ship that has just appeared in sector 13. Stargate Z to the adjacent system in located in sector 13, so Pilot Y can immediately identify where Pilot X came from.
etc...
TL;DR As I hope you can see, fixing local chat or removing it really isn't the problem here. CCP has interesting choice on there hands. They can fix simple gameplay mechanics and meta with a change to the DSCAN system without really needing to touch local. This would solve LOCAL's free intel problem, but would still keep the scouting meta fair for both sides of any engagement. Lastly, CCP could finally update and fix a very broken system and UI screen and update it with something fresh, new and much more user friendly. Along with the upcoming changes to sov and structures, I believe this could be something CCP could look at as a step in the right direction
LVXE
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:41:48 -
[36] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Gimme Sake wrote: How many of you wait (with excitement) for such an announcement from CCP in a near future? I sure do, it is one things I found totally out of place in a space game.
Also, how many of you would loathe/fear not being able to see "the reds" in local chat?
As long as they create other ways for new players to meet established ones, I'm all for it. Removal of local might not work that well from a new player point of view.
Yes, the new players would be at a great disadvantage, especially miners. That's why it will probably never be removed from high sec. In low sec however there aren't new players, or at least not for long.
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:47:09 -
[37] - Quote
Vixel wrote:
It has shaped the way this game has been played to its core since the game was created.
That's exactly the point of this thread. A huge part of gameplay mechanics revolves around the local chat.
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Vixel
Sky Fighters
1
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:50:01 -
[38] - Quote
They shouldn't remove it, but as I mentioned in my above post, change some of the other mechanics.
LVXE
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2015.03.22 11:58:40 -
[39] - Quote
Vixel wrote:They shouldn't remove it, but as I mentioned in my above post, change some of the other mechanics.
I think d-scan is fine as it is. I'm pretty sure there can be found a less cumbersome solution for the already rather lengthy learning curve.
Like the scanning array device presented in the fan fest.
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Vixel
Sky Fighters
2
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Posted - 2015.03.22 12:10:13 -
[40] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Vixel wrote:They shouldn't remove it, but as I mentioned in my above post, change some of the other mechanics. I think d-scan is fine as it is. I'm pretty sure there can be found a less cumbersome solution for the already rather lengthy learning curve. Like the scanning array device presented in the fan fest.
I've been playing this game a long time. I've lived in WH's, 0.0, hi sec, etc. My current gameplay revolves on scanning day to day, hours upon hours, and dscan is one of the tools I use the most for hunting down prey. The user interface for the DSCAN mechanic is awful. If you think it's fine, you must not use it much. I checked my DSCAN stats for this past year, I scanned like on average over 92 times per hour (multiply that over a typical 4 hour time session, 5 days a week, for 3 months = I dscanned around 60,000 times.)
For something as useful as dscan, it needs a facelift, and expanded functionality. You could allow for better accuracy and precision for using scan probes by simply dividing the space up and giving a visual representation of that division.
LVXE
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
6015
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Posted - 2015.03.22 12:12:37 -
[41] - Quote
OOH....guys, look here, we have another remove local thread.
Guys, come on. This might actually have something different then the other 48.459.239 threads about removing local in it.
Guys...
Guys?
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2015.03.22 12:14:28 -
[42] - Quote
Vixel wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:Vixel wrote:They shouldn't remove it, but as I mentioned in my above post, change some of the other mechanics. I think d-scan is fine as it is. I'm pretty sure there can be found a less cumbersome solution for the already rather lengthy learning curve. Like the scanning array device presented in the fan fest. I've been playing this game a long time. I've lived in WH's, 0.0, hi sec, etc. My current gameplay revolves on scanning day to day, hours upon hours, and dscan is one of the tools I use the most for hunting down prey. The user interface for the DSCAN mechanic is awful. If you think it's fine, you must not use it much. I checked my DSCAN stats for this past year, I scanned like on average over 92 times per hour (multiply that over a typical 4 hour time session, 5 days a week, for 3 months = I dscanned around 60,000 times.) For something as useful as dscan, it needs a facelift, and expanded functionality. You could allow for better accuracy and precision for using scan probes by simply dividing the space up and giving a visual representation of that division.
I agree the interface is awful, too dependent from the overview settings tab etc. and it could use a full revamp. When I said about d-scan being fine I was talking about the process itself not the interface.
ßòª( -í° -£-û -í°)ßòñ Hi, I'm Blob and I like to Blog.
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Vixel
Sky Fighters
2
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Posted - 2015.03.22 12:15:28 -
[43] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:OOH....guys, look here, we have another remove local thread.
Guys, come on. This might actually have something different then the other 48.459.239 threads about removing local in it.
Guys...
Guys?
Did you read my post?
LVXE
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Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
300
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Posted - 2015.03.22 13:57:12 -
[44] - Quote
You want Local removed?, then automate D-Scan like it does with anomalies with read outs super imposed. The rate and resolution at which these scans occur is set by the pilot.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2536
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Posted - 2015.03.22 14:02:52 -
[45] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:face it, you want local gone because you can then war dec and sneak up on the afk miners without them knowing.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
636
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Posted - 2015.03.22 14:14:27 -
[46] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:That's exactly the point of this thread. A huge part of gameplay mechanics revolves around the local chat. Thanks for clarifying that. I thought this rehash of a decided issue was to get yourself splashed all over the forum. My bad! Do try to overlook my boorish take on this matter.
The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
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Vyl Vit
1131
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Posted - 2015.03.22 14:15:37 -
[47] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:That's exactly the point of this thread. A huge part of gameplay mechanics revolves around the local chat. Thanks for clarifying that. I thought this rehash of a decided issue was to get yourself splashed all over the forum. My bad! Do try to overlook my boorish take on this matter. You've been forgiven for less, my man. Forgiven for less....but, I don't recall you asking before. Wait! Is this sarcasm???
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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NightmareX
Lakagigar
577
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Posted - 2015.03.22 14:24:42 -
[48] - Quote
As a player who have been playing EVE Online since April 2004 with my first trial character, i know for sure that removing local will create alot more problems than it will fix.
So just suggesting that the local should be removed without having any new ideas on what kind of tools that can replace local in some ways are never going to happen. Just forget it.
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:
Asteroid Madness: http://tinyurl.com/asteroidmadness
Clash of the Empires: http://tinyurl.com/ClashoftheEmpires
Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama (31.10.2013): http://tinyurl.com/tamafight
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
659
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:03:54 -
[49] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:Further point. Local in FW is almost a necessity. Even with d-scan and everything else. It helps to pair equal fleets and allow for quick combat. However, delayed local on null is good. Why? Nullbears and bots need to die. There are less "mutual" fights and sneak attacks have more value. Otherwise carebears just dock up. FW plexes already allow for quick combat. Besides it's enough to have a few people scouting the gates to figure out a fleet is comming. Null is not empire space but sov so I don't see why Concord would share any capsuleer info.
Do you even Faction Warfare? Because having no local would drastically reduce the amount of fights. Most people are there to fight with a few risk adverse people. As such local provides some free intel but more so says "There is probably a few Gallente in here or Caldari - Lets fight!". Where as with no local you would generally be forced to scan everything down - which we already do. But with 0 context behind the scans.
As such your suggestion is moronic and out of touch with how people play faction warfare in low sec. However, when applied to Null Sec it isn't as bad - as people are extremely risk adverse there and due to its spread would require a bit more effort on their part to maintain intel. This allows for mistakes, which lead to escalations or very good kills. It also means that afk cloaking will no longer be an issue in this area (when it really was never an issue to begin with). |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
749
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:09:11 -
[50] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:Local I can somehow understand. What needs to go is that abomination of a watch list though. That has no place in game and can't be justified. Simple fix: whenever someone tries to add a character to watchlist, that person has the option of allowing it or not. Pilots can set whether they want watchlist allowed by default, or rejected by default. Under this system there'd probably be less watchlisting anyway since you'd be able to see who watchlists you.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Kuga
Back Door Burglars Northern Associates.
30
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:56:04 -
[51] - Quote
Unfortunately removal of local is not a viable option until either:
1. Removal of local in null sec is equivocal or of lower risk than that of wormhole space (i.e power projection will need to be severely curtailed or removed completely, including black ops dropping).
Or 2. Null sec is made considerably more rewarding than W-space to compensate the ability of hostiles to drop on you from up to 50 different systems instantly and at any time.
I would prefer the first criterion to be met, personally. Not meeting one of these will cause a mass exodus from null sec (for example, rife blops dropping everything will last for about a week until no-one rats or mines anymore).
Once this has happened, I am happy for local to go bye bye in null sec. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1324
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Posted - 2015.03.22 19:07:13 -
[52] - Quote
Local chat thread number 10358735432
Why Can't I have a picture signature.
Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10301
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Posted - 2015.03.22 19:25:52 -
[53] - Quote
Looking at the ideas for the new structures, I could very well see CCP angling toward removing local in null and replacing it with a player create network and such. Player made gates that let you affect warp speed could create a situation where ratting systems are protected by that and an early warning network that warns you if cloaked people are nearby etc.
My stance has always been that removing local from null WHILE the current mechanics is exist will not work at all, but who knows with the new structures. |
Tajic Kaundur
Dropbears Anonymous Brave Collective
63
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Posted - 2015.03.22 19:46:55 -
[54] - Quote
Given that the lore explanation for local chat existing is basically "stargates take logs of you jumping through them and tell everyone you're here"; I feel like taking that lore to the logical conclusion would be a good way to make local chat work.
If you enter system without a gate (cyno, wormhole, logging in), you don't show up in local until you talk (or dock? maybe stations are on the gate network as well or something?)
This gives potential methods to get around local chat for PvP, but it doesn't completely eliminate it. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1680
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Posted - 2015.03.22 20:29:21 -
[55] - Quote
Tajic Kaundur wrote:Given that the lore explanation for local chat existing is basically "stargates take logs of you jumping through them and tell everyone you're here"; I feel like taking that lore to the logical conclusion would be a good way to make local chat work.
If you enter system without a gate (cyno, wormhole, logging in), you don't show up in local until you talk (or dock? maybe stations are on the gate network as well or something?)
This gives potential methods to get around local chat for PvP, but it doesn't completely eliminate it.
No, lore explanation is registration with stargate network. In other words, once you fail to register in system upon arrival, the entire gate network will deny you access from that point forward. Once you "fall off the grid" you're denied access to all gates, forever.
But yeah, lore exist to justify game mechanics, not the other way around. Don't let lore stop you, it can always be changed. |
Jallukola
45
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Posted - 2015.03.22 20:33:23 -
[56] - Quote
CCP should make a Settings Menu entry for Local Chat, so you can turn it off since it bothers you so much.
Leo Moracchioli - All About That Bass
Leo Moracchioli - Shake It Off
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Jallukola
45
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Posted - 2015.03.22 20:44:56 -
[57] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Local I can somehow understand. What needs to go is that abomination of a watch list though. That has no place in game and can't be justified. Simple fix: whenever someone tries to add a character to watchlist, that person has the option of allowing it or not. Pilots can set whether they want watchlist allowed by default, or rejected by default. Under this system there'd probably be less watchlisting anyway since you'd be able to see who watchlists you. If I were a rich man, I'd treat you the finest dinner Manhattan can offer if this ever gets implemented.
Leo Moracchioli - All About That Bass
Leo Moracchioli - Shake It Off
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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
149
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Posted - 2015.03.22 21:49:21 -
[58] - Quote
Dr Prometheus wrote:Go to a WH.
+1 for this quote
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
149
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Posted - 2015.03.22 21:50:07 -
[59] - Quote
Jallukola wrote:CCP should make a Settings Menu entry for Local Chat, so you can turn it off since it bothers you so much.
+1 agreed
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
485
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Posted - 2015.03.22 22:09:20 -
[60] - Quote
OP: I agree with your sentiment. However you do realise you are proposing a buff to large 0.0 blobs? |
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