Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Webster Carr
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 18:32:50 -
[91] - Quote
Gfy Trextron wrote:So for a guy or small group of guys to compete, you are taking away the ability to have 1 structure that can copy, print, invent, reprocess, and build with the proper mods at an equal efficiency to everyone else (barring 0.0 advantages) and now requiring them to have 3 structures to operate at equal efficiency.
You keep saying that the structures can be adapted like a ship, do some things well and others ok. This may seem fair to you in some way, but it is not when you have to rely on a large infrastructure to operate efficiently. This only forces people to join large entities with numerous resources.
This potentially goes beyond risk vs reward to unbalanced cost of production.
What if, in addition to all of the specialized types there was added a generalized structure with lesser (or no) bonuses to all roles. It could never equal the raw output of what the specialized structures could do, but it could fit and do all or most of the activities. In addition: when the transition came all of the existing POS structures could simply be transformed into the new type of general structure with similar mods in place.
Web |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1990
|
Posted - 2015.03.31 23:09:17 -
[92] - Quote
Webster Carr wrote: What if, in addition to all of the specialized types there was added a generalized structure with lesser (or no) bonuses to all roles. It could never equal the raw output of what the specialized structures could do, but it could fit and do all or most of the activities. In addition: when the transition came all of the existing POS structures could simply be transformed into the new type of general structure with similar mods in place.
Web
If you watch the whole stream of Fanfest, they actually said that the service modules would/should be cross fittable. So you can fit a research service module into an assembly array, it just won't get the role bonus of the structure. Just like you can fit lasers onto a Rokh. But it gets no bonus to them.
So we don't need a generic structure, because assuming that's accurate, and the service slots aren't overly specific (Looking at you assembly arrays where you need 20 or 30 of them to produce everything) then you can have a generic structure based on how you fit it. |
Lurifax
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
23
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 08:53:53 -
[93] - Quote
The passive income from the datacores is bad. We dont need passive income. Remove the agents and please no can that will give you free data cores. The data sites are bad enough as it is. |
Flamespar
WarRavens
1315
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 09:51:45 -
[94] - Quote
It would be good if research laboratories gave some benefits to exploration gameplay. Perhaps giving an overview of exploration sites in the system/constellation/region depending on size. Or even allowing us to detect new deep space exploration sites.
It would also be cool if we could discover and sell the locations of sites via these structures.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
|
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels
646
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 09:53:26 -
[95] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Max Deveron wrote:
For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.
But we need to get people into space doing things. I only use the term "Mining" as it is what most closely resembles the same activity. Imagine the sun produced 4 different kinds of solar anomalies that had to be scanned down with probes. A Solar Flare: Solar flares release huge ammounts of high energy particles which are tremendously hot. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce High Energy Physics Datacores (you're researching high energy physics by doing an action like mining on a solar flare) Proximity to this anomalie would do AoE kinetic damage A Solar Prominance: Solar prominance is held together with massive magnetic fields. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce Electromagnetic Physics Datacores. These would have EM AoE damage A Sun Spot: Sun spots would allow you to gather Nuclear Physics datacores. They would have a thermal AoE damage An Imminant CME (Coronal Mass Ejection) These would allow the gathering of Plasma Physics datacores. Thw area would produce explosive AoE damage Now, other types of research sites: Highly Unstable Wormhole (non traversable) - Kinetic and EM AoE damage Event Horizon Anomaly (centre of wormhole): Research of this would produce Quantum Physics Datacores Gravitation Anomaly (in the wormholes "rings"): Study of this would produce Graviton Physics datacores The other datacores would have other sites. All found through probes. The ship line that would do this would be the SoCT ship line. They have flat resistance profiles allowing them to spec tank easily. They are the "Teaching" faction so it fits that they would do research. What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module. Sounds like a 'mini-game' to me.
That's still better than no gameplay at all.
|
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
918
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 14:38:46 -
[96] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:The passive income from the datacores is bad. We dont need passive income. Remove the agents and please no can that will give you free data cores. The data sites are bad enough as it is. So, where would datacores come from then if you removed the old method and not add a new one? Are you proposing they only come from the LP store?
Also, industry pretty much IS about passive income as far as my view of it goes. Sure mining the resources yourself is active, and you need to set jobs and market orders, but everything beyond that happens in the background whether you are there or not.
Moon goo and PI are also passive. You occasionally move stuff around, but the resources are collected in the background once everything's been set up properly, and there's nothing wrong with passive income, it just shouldn't be worth as much as active income.
Also if you are saying passive income is bad, then how are data sites bad when they require you to actively search for and interact with? The only real problem is they don't really give a good number of datacores. |
Kate Ragnarok
Pirates Blood
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:01:55 -
[97] - Quote
I think the idea of research platform being able to attract data and relic sites to a system is pretty cool.
Also make a new type of site that just spawns data cores. Have a signal on the platform to attract a certain faction for the data spawns. Be able to change the signal when you want a different races data cores. If the structure is not used then the signal goes offline.
This creates new opportunities for people to have structures and also for people to ninja stuff as well.
This would work good with the new trade hubs.
Example. Corp puts up a research structure and a trading hub. The corp does not as a rule want to do data sites they just want to mine. They put the highest buy orders at their trade hub and people scan sites and sell the data cores to the corp. This way they create jobs for new pilots and old to make isk in corp or alliance level no matter what the sec status. Also they can use the billboards to advertise the price for data cores in system for people to sell them as well.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1991
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 23:28:47 -
[98] - Quote
Data cores totally should be produced. They are just data stores. You don't need to research new theories 50000 times to produce exactly the same T2 item every time. Once you have done it once, that's it. Then it's just using the knowledge. What someone posted earlier about datacores being cybernetic libraries that burn out after use sounds the best lore direction to go with them.
So yes, lets keep the 'passive' ability (Of a structure at risk in space) to make datacores, because it actually makes sense. And lets not make it a mini game of 'hunt the datacore' because that just sounds & feels silly. |
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
922
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 06:49:38 -
[99] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Data cores totally should be produced. They are just data stores. You don't need to research new theories 50000 times to produce exactly the same T2 item every time. Once you have done it once, that's it. Then it's just using the knowledge. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/invention.jpg]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/invention.jpg
Quote: What someone posted earlier about datacores being cybernetic libraries that burn out after use sounds the best lore direction to go with them.
Well the reasoning behind limited runs on BPCs as far as I am aware is DRM
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1991
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 11:05:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sure, the 'invention' might not work, but the datacore isn't the act on inventing, it's just the library you use for reference while 'inventing'. |
|
Webster Carr
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.04.02 13:01:31 -
[101] - Quote
I still say keep the Research Agents as an additional source of data cores.
If you think of it this way: The research agents are the PVE source of data cores (interaction with agents as you do with running missions). Then the data cores from research structures would be an alternate source.
What was described at fanfest was data core spawning from the research structure would work as such: In one of the Research structure's slots you place a 'Data Collection Array'. That station would then spawn nodes (it would make the most sense to spawn hacking nodes just like data sites) that are guaranteed to produce a quantity of data cores (possibly in addition to other random drops)?
The problem with the above is that WHY? Why would you invest assets into building something that someone can just come along and ninja the production from? It doesn't make sense. What would make the most sense is that it produces data cores that are stored in your personal hangar on the structure, that you swing by and collect from in a method similar to PI production.
Perhaps it even could use an amount of simple P2 PI as input, differing based upon the data core desired: Mechanical Engineering uses Mechanical Parts, Electronic Engineering uses Miniature Electronics, Nanite Engineering uses well Nanites... In other words it works like industry, with the number of Data Cores Job slots being determined by your Research Project Management skill
In essence you could use a NPC agent or your own Research Lab or a combination of the two to a limit of determined by your Research Project Management skill. Just like current BPO research you could either use a research lab at an NPC station or build your own... Simple and intuitive.
In my opinion the sandbox is enhanced by having multiple routes to the same goal.
-Web |
Lienzo
Amanuensis
74
|
Posted - 2015.04.03 17:28:01 -
[102] - Quote
These will not replace the functionality of stations unless there is some way to boost the sensor strength of the structures. Ideally, it would be a system effect so as to encourage players to actually defend the system rather than rely on mechanics self-contained to the structure.
In addition, lowsec systems need mechanics which both allow and disallow discovery of these structures, or different structures. Incorporation of the hacking system may help to create delays and player escalations. An alternative is the requirement for attackers to have their own hostile structures operating in the system or constellation.
No matter the level of mechanic protection, they will remain vulnerable to spies. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
158
|
Posted - 2015.04.04 22:00:55 -
[103] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=414184&p=3 I like the idea! In the current system you can have research and manifacturing in the same location. If those can not be done at the same place with the same or more bonuses then the number of structures in space will be quite higher . Everyone wanting datacores will also have an extra structure. Since people who want to have control of the entire manifacturing process will need to have more then 1. While it will increase risk by moving stuff, that will also increase the number of structures in space quite a bit. Maybe untill the servers are stressed.
Would datacore be able to be siphoned in null, low, w-space?
No local in null sec would fix everything!
|
Bussan
Kabukicho
7
|
Posted - 2015.04.06 11:51:49 -
[104] - Quote
In general I like the new system, or at least we can say that I'm happy that they finally decided to change this part of the game, as it was pretty annoying and time consuming. But, even if the new system is quite different from the old one, looking better at it, I think it doesn't really change things THAT much... I mean, before we had a bubble with inside the tower and the modules we needed. Now we have no bubble, but just the "modules (with other modules inside...)". People that used a POS for more than just 1-2 things, will be forced to use some of the new structures at the same time, to have the same results.
So it might be cool and nice for all the people that were using a pos for simple stuff, but for most of the industrialists, or corps using POSes for industry, stage, storage, wh, whatever... will just have an increased confusion and workload. I know that you can put different arrays even in a structure that is not specialized for that kind of array, but let's be honest... unless you manufacture/research /etc mostly for fun, you cannot do that. Indutry in EVE is very competitive, so industrialists cannot loose bonuses like that, and still make isks. That's why they will use multiple specialized structures. Making it a hell to handle them all.
How to make things easier? more efficient? Not so sure... looks difficult... but FOR SURE having to move stuff around in different structures with ships is going to be really really annoying and time consuming... not fun at all. First of all, get rid of the 1000000000 hangars, that make things confusing. Just make one single hangar (or one single "set" of hangars, like in a station), that will be shared by ALL the arrays/services in that structure. So, for example, I won't need to move the minearls around every time I wannt manufacture something. Simply all the specialized arrays will get the materials they need from the same hangar. Or different ones... just let us set the single arrays "preferences" about where to find the bpo/bpc and the materials they will use. Based on t he single array, not the single bpo in that single array...
Then, why not keep some of the basic ideas of the old pos? The structures will work stand-alone perfectly fine, and mostly will be used like that. But for people that will need more than one, let them "link" the structures somehow... in a way that will be possible to share the storage of all the structures, and avoid 10000 flights from one structure to the other just to move materials or bpo. For example there can be another structure that will be the "core" of those "space cities", that will just merge the storage of the different structures, and maybe act like a fuel tank too.... so the owner can just put all the fuel in a single place to keep online all his structures. If it feels like it's too good, for example you can have to sacrifice one slot, or one rig, to create the link to the core, that can handle only a fixed amount of links.
I mean, it's nice to make people fly more, go around and whatever... but too much will just make people quit it, because not fun at all.... at least for me it's not fun to go back and forth from one structure to the other 1000 times, even if they are anchored almost at the same place. |
Arctic Estidal
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
19
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 14:54:27 -
[105] - Quote
It would be great to have these structures be able to be placed next to the Market Headquarters (XL Structure) and then connect the structures.
So all blueprints, invention, manufacturing, market orders etc can be managed from the one connected structure. If I need to move my pod or ship between multiple structures continually this will be too tedious.
Currently I can be in the main outpost and undertake all the activities that I need too. The structure may not have all the best bonuses but this option needs to remain available.
Currently I am manufacturing and managing over 600+ sale orders, so this needs to be considered. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2233
|
Posted - 2015.04.07 17:13:55 -
[106] - Quote
do we know if we're looking at similar bonuses to current outposts for the XL structures? |
Sarah Eginald
Git-R-Done Logistics Git-R-Done Inc
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 12:46:33 -
[107] - Quote
Arctic Estidal wrote:It would be great to have these structures be able to be placed next to the Market Headquarters (XL Structure) and then connect the structures.
So all blueprints, invention, manufacturing, market orders etc can be managed from the one connected structure. If I need to move my pod or ship between multiple structures continually this will be too tedious.
Currently I can be in the main outpost and undertake all the activities that I need too. The structure may not have all the best bonuses but this option needs to remain available.
Currently I am manufacturing and managing over 600+ sale orders, so this needs to be considered.
Here is an Idea that maybe 2 paths for an XL structure you can add on to your existing structure to make it grow.
Your considering mooring ships why not do the same with structures. You can moor/anchor another structured next to the first creating a larger structure.
I think for building your space empire this would make sense. This way a corp or alliance can add structures to expand there structure for their needs instead of having to buy a bigger structure. |
Sarah Eginald
Git-R-Done Logistics Git-R-Done Inc
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 15:18:43 -
[108] - Quote
I also have a question about the rigs on these structures. Are they going to be setup so a person can scoop them up without destroying the rigs or how can a person move a structure without destroying the items that are more valuable then the structure itself. |
Spencer Owl
Black Swan Corp Mercury Seven
22
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 00:06:44 -
[109] - Quote
My only input on this is if they aren't a single structure then make sure the two can communicate. Moving blue prints to and from a production facility/laboratory is going to be risky business if you have to do it more than you do now. |
Soleil Fournier
Ultimatum. The Bastion
35
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 01:06:20 -
[110] - Quote
I would like 2 different assembly arrays:
Regular assembly array for most industry needs/products. Capital shipyard.
All capital ships would need to be built in the capital shipyards. Think of your favorite Sci-Fi TV show/movie capital shipyard assault and model them as such.
Then, perhaps, limit all capital shipyards to Sovereignty space. The major wars sparked by assaulting opponent capital shipyards would be epic, and would give sov space a unique focus in the industrial world by providing capital products to the rest of New Eden. |
|
minumin
Corellian Trading Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 08:53:25 -
[111] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Hairpins Blueprint wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello people, We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog. This particular thread is going to focus Assembly Arrays and Research Laboratories.
- Assembly Arrays focus on manufacturing of the numerous EVE Online items, ships, modules, structures, components and etc... used in-game.
- Research Laboratories are dedicated to blueprint research (ME, TE), blueprint copying, Tech II and Tech III blueprint invention, and datacore spawning.
The Big Question is, what happens when some one is burning capital bpo's in pos during the change? Some of those jobs take more that 160 day's! I have asked this already in 2 different threads and been ignored...... That typically means they don't have a clue how to handle it and that you will get shafted after it comes out, like I did during Crius already. It only cost me about 25 bil though, so not too bad they should just try to implement fractional researching of bpos or pausing researching bpos, keeping the progress made for example i start now a research from me9 to me10, taking 50 days i pay 50 mil isk for this after 40 days i need to pause the research for various reasons (need to take down pos, hostile patch incoming etc) the bpo returns to my hangar , but with me 9.8 (40/50=80%) or something like that i get back 10 mil (reimbursement for research time not spent) as a downside, maybe the bpo should be locked to not allow using it for manufacturing or bpc copying till you finish researching it
|
Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 22:49:07 -
[112] - Quote
minumin wrote: as a downside, maybe the bpo should be locked to not allow using it for manufacturing or bpc copying till you finish researching it
Or always use the rounded down ME/TE value for copying or manufacturing calculations |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
98
|
Posted - 2015.04.25 01:18:40 -
[113] - Quote
My research lab at POS has stopped working completely. This is great.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Brutalis Furia
Hammer and Anvil Industries
15
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 01:46:43 -
[114] - Quote
Passive datacores? no.
Any change that takes away a player activity is bad. It's as simple as that.
I like the idea of creating a scientific version of ore sites. It's a way to shift the creation of these items away from passive NPC generation to active player involvement. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
931
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 03:31:56 -
[115] - Quote
Brutalis Furia wrote:Passive datacores? no.
Any change that takes away a player activity is bad. It's as simple as that.
I like the idea of creating a scientific version of ore sites. It's a way to shift the creation of these items away from passive NPC generation to active player involvement.
They could very easily just put more data cores into the Data Sites. Then make it harder to get them from other NPC sources. This would make the Data Sites worth doing.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
|
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
104
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 00:13:40 -
[116] - Quote
I see post after post referring to datacores being generated by passive research missions and how this should be removed. I am sitting here scratching my head. WTF? The number of datacores entering the economy from research agents is TINY. My understanding is that this was changed years ago, and most datacores now come from faction warfare loyalty point stores. I even checked my own research agents, which I haven't bothered talking to in over two years. I have accumulated enough research points to buy about 490 datacores from them. Worth about 50 million ISK on the current market. In two YEARS. get real, that won't even cover one day's worth of my invention jobs.
Where is the discussion about the real source of datacores, faction warfare? |
Justin Cody
Tri-gun
263
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 01:26:44 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hello people, We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog. This particular thread is going to focus Assembly Arrays and Research Laboratories.
- Assembly Arrays focus on manufacturing of the numerous EVE Online items, ships, modules, structures, components and etc... used in-game.
- Research Laboratories are dedicated to blueprint research (ME, TE), blueprint copying, Tech II and Tech III blueprint invention, and datacore spawning.
As long as they have a significant advantage over station services then it is all good. Make Drug Labs part of the Research Labs category pl0x.
Also as an aside consider iterating on the whole drug meta. some nice weaksauce drugs for high sec and maybe some t2/3 drugs or faction drugs. Pirate factions should be tripping balls while fighting. |
Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.16 05:31:25 -
[118] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:I'm still not a fan of the idea of datacores just being spawned in random containers or some such-not. As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), datacores all have corresponding science skills. Instead of simply 'spawning' them from a specific structure, a player could use their science skills to create the datacores.
Set it up so that a single player can have up to five lines, and switch the Research Project Management skill from allowing +1 research agent to +1 datacore lines, and let players create the datacores themselves using the structure and their science skills, with higher science skills yielding more datacores. It could roughly follow the current agent levels (science skill at level 1 would be akin to having a level 1 agent) for output (though, it would probably need a bit of a boost, depending on how much fuel the structure cost and how much it cost to build).
I like this concept but perhaps take it a bit further. Use thr same basic concept but but add in thar you jeed an item. Whether its a ship, module, ammo/charge, or rig that correlates to that skill. Depending on the lvl of the object it provides the base modifier while your skill in that paricular field adds to if not further multiplies it. Thus rendering cores at the approriate rate. In this way a guy with excellent skills can use a fairly mundane object for obvious benifit while someone who did not have the the skill would have to shell out a ton of cash for an item cool enough to give them the same level of return. |
Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS Rising Darkness
14
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 17:59:53 -
[119] - Quote
As most folks here have alluded toGǪ the fixation on data cores is not very interesting or productive. There are tons of places to get them already, and they are cheap. Their price is relatively constrained by the availability of data sites and the isk per hour price of FW LPs. As Eric Raeder points out, the player agent source of them is basically irrelevant.
If CCP wants to do something interesting, have it involve the decryptors. Lets level that field the rest of the way. Let us invent and build our own decryptors with random chances of various ME, PE and Run values (all the way ME10/PE20). The better the skills, better the chances of inventing a good BPC. No more free rides for folks with low skill points.
Make it so the new decryptors can be R&DGÇÖd ONLY in a Research lab. If you allow them to be researched in HS NPC stations, 99% of them will be, and only a handful of folks will build the Research platforms.
|
Dini Mueter
Incompatible Protocol
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 13:51:35 -
[120] - Quote
It seems to me that this new structure idea is generally breaking up what used to be done in a single structure, into needing several different structures.
As an example, right now I'm running a medium POS, out of which I use a research lab to do ME and TE research on my BPO's, a design lab to make BPC's and invent T2 BPC's, a component assembly array to build some of the T2 components on the cheap, and an equipment assembly array to build the T1 and T2 items I'm going to sell.
Would it be correct to assume that when the new structures are implemented, I'll need two different structures, one for assembly and one for research? Will these need to be placed on different moons? Will they each have an upkeep/fuel cost required to run?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |