Capitals in Highsec. Yes! I support this 100%

Throw the miners a bone for once and start with the Rorqual?
Gankers can gank it too so it works out for both sides.

So let me get this straight guys. We could assign fighters to a ship, and that ship could have a MAX of 5 (or more for carrier) fighters assigned to it, and ccp didn't like it, so they removed it.

You could assign only 5 to a ship as per maximum allowed amount of drones controlled that you could have more then 1 people to on grid with 5 fighters each is a separate issue.
Also delegated fighters counted as your maximum allotment of drones in space so you couldn't had both drones and fighters out from the same ship.

Only issue I see here is that, unlike with drones, delegated fighters retained the stats of their actual owner.
This allowed a drone carrier to pump out a maximum amount of dps for the fighters while sitting at POS.
This obviously was a none issue before all of these new drone damage toys that were implemented since before that only drone damage was from optimal- and tracking modules, ships drone dmg bonuses and drone rigs (but was there a drone dmg rig ? can't remember).

Missions/Sites? Structure bashing? If you really believe the carrier is useless now. Don't use it. I'll be getting mine soon either way. Guess I'm glad I didn't already have one. Don't agree with Skynet, but don't care they took away the other options as well.

Good luck with your efforts to change it back. You're going to need it. o7

So let me get this straight guys. We could assign fighters to a ship, and that ship could have a MAX of 5 (or more for carrier) fighters assigned to it, and ccp didn't like it, so they removed it.

But with assist/guard ships would be able to have FIFTY fighters. PER SHIP. If you don't think that would have been broken then you're really wouldn't have enjoyed fights when an interceptor that could control 5 fighters is now controlling 50.

Take your head out of your asses and actually think for a moment, yeah?

If you are a carrier or supercarrier and you want to shoot something, you get on grid with it, drop fighters, and shoot it. They are still going to be at increased risk. Just be happy there is no insta-locking interceptor controlling them and carriers take a while to lock stuff, christ

you had a broken mechanic, and now you are having a tantrum because you didn't get an even more broken mechanic?

Also it's not like you could actually do anything useful to protect your miners with a Rorqual or any other capital for that matter since reps can't prevent alpha and you can't shoot firt in high sec anyway.

Or well it's not like you could protect your fleet in null or low sec either if someone is really committed on ganking it.

You could have a practically "invulnerable to ganks capital" doing PvE in high sec which I presume is the only reason we don't have them in high sec but then again you could just dec the corp as usual, though the one in NPC corps might be an issue.

So let me get this straight guys. We could assign fighters to a ship, and that ship could have a MAX of 5 (or more for carrier) fighters assigned to it, and ccp didn't like it, so they removed it.

But with assist/guard ships would be able to have FIFTY fighters. PER SHIP. If you don't think that would have been broken then you're really wouldn't have enjoyed fights when an interceptor that could control 5 fighters is now controlling 50.

*Take your head out of your asses and actually think for a moment, yeah?*

If you are a carrier or supercarrier and you want to shoot something, you get on grid with it, drop fighters, and shoot it. They are still going to be at increased risk. Just be happy there is no insta-locking interceptor controlling them and carriers take a while to lock stuff, christ

you had a broken mechanic, and now you are having a tantrum because you didn't get an even more broken mechanic?

Clearly you don't know the difference between assisting fighters and delegating/assigning them.

Defend: If something shoots at assisted ships, fighters pew it. Fighters cannot leave grid if assisted ship leaves. Carrier must be on grid as well.
Assist: If assisted ship shoots at something, fighters should help it. Fighters cannot leave grid if assisted ship leaves. Carrier must be on grid as well.
Fighters remain fully-usable only by carrier, and essentially become superdrones (as is appropriate considering their price)

Assigned fighters: Treated exactly like the ships own fighters, but bonused by carrier; Able to leave grid, press F to pay respects is also enabled, permitting all sorts of shenanigans.

Also, lol @ carrier lock-times, BRB detailing my car while I wait for lock-on.

But yes, replacing "assign fighters" with another mechanic that forces the carrier to be on-grid and treated like any other droneboat is totally broken, those ships shouldn't be allowed outside a station! /s


Illiteracy is a terrible thing :

I know the difference and have outlined them perfectly fine. The point (which you seem to have missed) is that with both assist or defend, you would have been able to have 50 fighters assisting/defending any given ship. Removing assigned fighters, which had a cap of 5 fighters, for assist/defend, with a cap of 50? I'm glad they didn't do that. And I fly a supercarrier. I know the difference mate. Assigned fighters was broken but giving assist/defend capabilities, nope that's going to end up even more broken.

50 fighters is only dread dps with max damage fit aslong as they can't apply that effectively to smaller targets it isn't a problem.

The way you completely talked out of your ass, I don't believe you knew the difference, much less own a super. You said carriers should have to be on grid, when anyone who actually uses assist/guard already knows that the assigning ship has to be on the same grid to do so. You also don't seem to realize that between hull and fighter/bomber lock times and scan res, it takes over a minute from beginning targeting to actually applying DPS.

A max DPS Fighter Nyx dropping 15 fighters with blinged out faction can put out about 7300 DPS with all maxed out skills.

That same Nyx pops to a single kin/explosive DD. It's also on grid.

http://gyazo.com/b1795fa71d38132403b9af4abccabb68

My old Skynet fit FTW. For max skilled fighter assigning Nyx's the highest DPS without officer gear is about 7400.

I have no damn clue where you're getting those crazy numbers from.

Hrm let's do some basic maths on that one hey. My bling fit naglfar with all skills at 5 can do 10,034 DPS.

A nyx with 10 fighters, not fit for drone damage, can do 7000dps.
A nyx with 10 fighers, fit for drone damage, can do 13,270dps.

When we multiply those numbers by 5 (to find the dps of 50 fighters), you end up with 35,000dps and 66,350dps. Yeah buddy 50 fighters is DEFINITELY only dread dps. TOTALLY.

My point of saying carriers should have to be on grid is I prefer that to the old assign mechanic where there was effectively no risk.

Using the targeting speed calculator, it takes 19.76 seconds for a nyx to lock an SBU, and 6.35 seconds for a Einherji to lock same SBU. NOT EVEN 30 SECONDS.. ~if you don't believe me, the math is =(10000/56.3)/(ASINH(4000))~

(BTW, it's still less than a minute using fighter bombers. Do the math. Also SBU Is the same signature as a dread(4k) if you think this only applies to structures. It gets even worse for you with carriers (12k, so 5.6s fighter lock time))

Allowing other ships (ie insta lock interceptor) to apply 50 fighters of dps means you completely nullify 20 seconds of carrier lock means 75.6% faster damage application of up to 35,000-66,350 dps. That's a new target alpha EVERY 7-8 SECONDS. Again, given the amount of alpha that is, I'm happy they removed assist/guard. You're still completely missing the point that 50 fighters assisting/guarding something is more broken than the old 5 assign. ESPECIALLY when the guard mechanic doesn't even require a target lock, so will instantly apply 50 fighters of alpha in under 8 seconds. You really don't think that would have been broken?!

A max DPS Fighter Nyx dropping 15 fighters with blinged out faction can put out about 7300 DPS with all maxed out skills.

That same Nyx pops to a single kin/explosive DD. It's also on grid.

Might care to recheck that math.

3300 x 5 != 33.3k.

Sorry, crazy late night maths fail, so it's 'only' 15.15k DPS locking in mere seconds counting the fighters lock time. And you honestly think that's balanced DPS vs Subcaps at that speed?
Can I have what you are smoking.

Yes it is balanced. Becuase it's all on grid. Doesn't matter if it's one interceptor with 50 fighters or 10 with 5 each it's the same difference.

Sorry, crazy late night maths fail, so it's 'only' 15.15k DPS locking in mere seconds counting the fighters lock time. And you honestly think that's balanced DPS vs Subcaps at that speed?
Can I have what you are smoking.