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PirateSarge
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I can't get over the constant whining I was hearing about Incarna that I cannot fathom the facepalms I'm doing. No, the micro-transactions stuff that's been around forever I can understand, but they are not forcing you to buy them.
What I can't comprehend is the bitchiness and whining about the new features of Incarna such as the walk in stations, captains quarters and interactions that I found intriguing. I don't want to be ******* cooped up in my ship all the time even in station. And I always like immersion, as if my character is alive and moving rather than being a static frozen pic in the top left corner of my gaming screen.
I liked the art design, the graphics and construction of the character. A character that makes me feel as if he's really alive and involved in the world of EVE instead of just hold up in a ship. But why is it that people have to complain over simple trivial things like that? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
PirateSarge wrote:I liked the art design, the graphics and construction of the character. A character that makes me feel as if he's really alive and involved in the world of EVE instead of just hold up in a ship. But why is it that people have to complain over simple trivial things like that? GǪbut then again, that's not what people are complaining about.
It's about the immense opportunity cost of the whole thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
PirateSarge
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪbut then again, that's not what people are complaining about.
It's about the immense opportunity cost of the whole thing.
Ah. Wait... immense opportunity cost? What do you mean by that? |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
452
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
actually this is the only thread bitching about incarna on the front page
so the question to you is, why are you dredging this **** up? The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Lil Nippy
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well lets see...
- Got rid of station spinning
- Added the worst feature to probably ever be implimented into this game, "station" walking (a 10x10 prison cell with a flat screen)
- A micro transaction store for doll clothes that only you can see...fail
- Dozens of performance issues for laptops and ATI users
- Disresepectful dev blogs and newsletters
- Was hyped up to be an immense, spectacular expansion but added no new content to the game whatsoever outside of the prison cell
Incarna is not really 'over' yet. Incarna could still very well have been the nail in the coffin for EVE. I rarely see more than 35k online when it used to regularly be 40-50K pre Incarna, only time will tell if CCP can bounce back from it. |
Cipher Jones
125
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its because they have been talking about it for at least 3 years, and when it finally got implemented it didn't include most of what they talked about.
Quote:Dozens of performance issues for laptops and ATI users
ATI users that aren't used to performance issues are called "First time ATI users".
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
not only did it not include everything promised and wanted by the player base.
It killed immersion by having a single faction room.
and it came with a never blogged about MT strategy. They just released it, they didn't think the customer feedback was even an issue. Stupid players shouldn't have a say in how we market MT items in eve, herp derp.
I want walking in stations more than anyone. but incarna was a terribad sub losing failure.
They should of held it back untill it was at least ready to let us visit each other in our CQ, even if pointless, it would be better than a single room.
also once it's done right eve will double in subs. I know way to many people where this is the one thing holding them back. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
29
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
edit * please delete, double post. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
29
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Posted - 2011.12.03 16:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Personally I feel it was overblown a bit.
Sure CCP miss judged the player base and messed up micro transactions but walking in stations has not been bitched at by most I know in game and that's a fair amount of people across a wide range of player types. Basically most that don't like the idea are also the people that don't play EVE for the actual immersion. They don't play EVE for the setting, they do it because its the ONLY game where power over others is a true in game facet....with that I have no issue. However this group of people seem to be most vocal.
I also feel that they (ccp) let far to much slip in favour of the WIS for too long and in fact said they had not done work on FIS because of incarna. Incarna then shipped with a room........ and a poorly marketed set of cloths you pay for with plex for those that like to wear military gear and look at themselves while not doing anything.
The swing has gone the other way now....... no WIS and all FIS. It would seem measured response just doesn't work in EVE land, the community, CCP and the CSM all seem to have binary responses to everything not allowing for balanced approaches to the gaming world that is EVE.
Let's be fair though, still no other game like it :)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 16:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
PirateSarge wrote:Ah. Wait... immense opportunity cost? What do you mean by that? Opportunity cost.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
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Posted - 2011.12.03 17:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it.
It's basically a finished feature, it just needs a 1 or 2 months and it would be done the way they promised.
The cost has allready been done, for 3 years. Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
522
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
PirateSarge wrote: Ah. Wait... immense opportunity cost? What do you mean by that?
Crucible was thrown together in a few months. Incursions was Ok. Tyrannis, Dominion and Incarna had very little Content for In-Space Features.
Since the beginning EVE Expansions have been growing and growing better each time. It is what has gotten EVE from an Indy Game to massive Content filled MMO. Around 1000 Missions, Group PVE, around 300 Ships, 7500 Star Systems, Player built Starbases and Outposts and player run Empires. EVE had none of that in the beginning. It has expanded bigger and bigger each year.
Apocrypha came and blew everyone away with Dynamic Group PvE, 2500 New Systems, New Modular Ships, New Missions and tons of Improvements. Then the expansions got worse and worse until Incarna came along and it was just a new Ship Skin, a Minmatar Station Interface and Ok looking Turrets. People were wondering what the hell happened.
The opportunity cost is what EVE would have been if Dominion was the next step above Apocrypha and so on. That combined with people begging for fixes to Blasters, Supercapitals, PoS's, Mining, Low Sec, Faction Warfare and a thousand other things that needed to be looked at or could use an overhaul and were time after time disappointed. CCP said there would be no more Apocrypha's and 18 Months before the game play was looked at in a serious way. Dev's began to shift to CCP's other incomplete titles and it looked more and more like they were abandoning EVE. Leaving it with less resources and not doing upkeep while expecting EVE Fans to pay for there other games. Walking in Stations was even developed to test out World of Darkness tech.
Eventually it just plain boiled over. If they were not going to release new content to keep things interesting and not fix the broken Content people started to wonder if this was worth $180 a year. There was Rage then Unsubs. Now CCP's thrown together Crucible in a couple of weeks as an apology they have said the next Expansion coming will be an Apocrypha.
EVE is back on the road to Expansion. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it. [GǪ] The cost has allready been done, for 3 years. Yes, and that's why there's such a high opportunity cost for it GÇö because that was all that they did. And those 3 years include the stuff they supposedly had to start over with from scratch.
That's the cost people are bitching about.
Quote:Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features. GǪthe problem is that last part: it has already happened. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it. [GǪ] The cost has allready been done, for 3 years. Yes, and that's why there's such a high opportunity cost for it GÇö because that was all that they did. And those 3 years include the stuff they supposedly had to start over with from scratch. That's the cost people are bitching about. Quote:Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features. GǪthe problem is that last part: it has already happened.
Tippa I always assumed you were more informed about game development, but apparently the respect i had for you has been misplaced.
That 1 room was not "all they had done" don't make me laugh. it was all that was ready. I was able to rip all of the bars and factional CQs from the sisi build. I posted a thread with the screen shots.
Also at fanfest they showed all of the shaders and tech needed to get it off the ground.
the hardest part of making a game is building a polished 1st level. or prototype. The rest if just building the game world. And even that was, as I stated, allready done. They released something that needed 4-6 months of extra work to have full muliplayer just because... they thought they could get away with it, or something. Read the CEO open letter to the community.
The fact is if you really think that single room was all they had done, you know nothing of game development. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sovereignty Infrastructure System might not of been the best expansion feature. But to say dominion didn't have many FiS features is BS. It was all in space features, how could there be non- in space features when all there was at the time was the FiS part of eve?
It's just that it was bad unwanted content. they could of made a CRUCIBLE expansion back then, if they had just listen to the CSM and the playerbase.
WiS is NOT the reason the Fis part of eve has been getting worse for years. It's clearly direction. Every expansion before incarna was FiS features, there is no arguing that. They just weren't expansions or features that polished the rest of the game. the issue here is feature abandonment. |
Ariel Dawn
F9X
175
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Incarna as initially described (having stores, clubs/bars, reasonably involved interactions) seemed awesome.
Incarna as delivered was a box with nothing inside of it.
If CCP can deliver it's first vision at some point it would likely be wildly successful. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote:Incarna as initially described (having stores, clubs/bars, reasonably involved interactions) seemed awesome.
Incarna as delivered was a box with nothing inside of it.
If CCP can deliver it's first vision at some point it would likely be wildly successful.
It's almost like CCP thought it was the NeX store that was all they needed to add to make it successful. The content isn't important, just give them something to throw money into because gamers want that nowadays. How cares if it's a box with no features. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:That 1 room was not "all they had done" don't make me laugh. Ok, you need to go back and read what I actually wrote this whole time, because now you're arguing things that have never been said.
So, let's repeat:
What people are bitching about is the opportunity cost of WiS: a flubbed released of a consistently poorly handled development of a feature with no gameplay attached to it, which robbed the game of precious development resources that could instead/also have gone towards the things we've seen in this patch and in pre-tyrannis patches. All they did in that time was Incarna GÇö and it showed GÇö and the end result (even including the stuff that isn't ready for release) was not worth the opportunity cost of all the other features and functionality that were left by the wayside during all that time.
Quote:The fact is if you really think that single room was all they had done, you know nothing of game development. No. The fact is that you haven't read what I've written or you've misunderstood what the opportunity cost is.
Quote:WiS is NOT the reason the Fis part of eve has been getting worse for years. WiS is the reason the FiS part of EVE did not get the attention it needed to not go stale. This was a direct and express choice by CCP: they focused on one thing at the cost of everything else. The opportunity of WiS came at the cost of the (many) opportunities of FiS. It is this opportunity cost that people are complaining about. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WiS is the reason the FiS part of EVE did not get the attention it needed to not go stale. This was a direct and express choice by CCP: they focused on one thing at the cost of everything else. The opportunity of WiS came at the cost of the (many) opportunities of FiS. It is this opportunity cost that people are complaining about.
RIIIIIGHT
which is why they were able to make...
a brand new Sov system
all faction ships being rebalanced form the ground up
New contracts UI
New planet graphics
New turrets
fleet finder
Epic arcs
planetary interaction
Team BFF's Little Things
Visible Nullsec Truesec
Carbon IO and carbon UI
Server-side Ship Fittings
Incursions
NPC AI buff
death to learning skills
fighter bombers
as well as a few new ships
So lets see, ignoring incarna the 3 expansions before that were...
1.Mine planets expansion 2.Pvp Sov expansion 3.PvE fight dynamic Npcs expansion
any of those 3 could of been CRUCIBLE, crucible only took them 4-6 weeks after all. It was barely any work.
If you someone think that WiS being put on hold is what allowed them to basically pick a ton of low hanging fruit that players had been yelling at them to pick for years, and only took them 4 weeks to finish was because of WiD not being worked on. your nuts. You've literally been forum whoring so long, your mind has lost it.
I'm not complaining mind you this was the ebst expansion in a long time. But I was expected it eyars ago. They just kept getting new big feature ideas for the past 2 years and now actully fixing other released features.
You can argue all day and night about how you don't think the reason eve went downhill was due to feature abandonment, and was some who linked to WiS taking away the chance of making an expansion like CRUCIBLE back in the day.
But the fact is, last expansion, incarna, had 4 times as many people working solely on in space features than when red moon rising came out. And that's a god damn fact. So I will up hold my point. CCP direction, and not Wis, were the reason for ****** expansions that adding nothing noteworthy to the game. end of story.
Feature abandonment
Bad direction
FFFFFnnnnnn |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:RIIIIIGHT If not the opportunity cost, what do you think the bitching is all about?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
142
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 17:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: That 1 room was not "all they had done" don't make me laugh. it was all that was ready. I was able to rip all of the bars and factional CQs from the sisi build. I posted a thread with the screen shots.
Also at fanfest they showed all of the shaders and tech needed to get it off the ground.
Do you think that building the interior environments is all that multiplayer WIS is about?
And even if it was, the performance of released CQs shows that even that is years away away from something that can be called "done". |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Was four different things for me. -the main feature of Incarna was really really weak. It was like going to see a feature film and getting a 2 minute trailer. -this was on the back of the also very weak PI expansion(Tyranis?) and the somewhat ok Incursion. -CCP had put too many bugs or unbalanced things that needed fixing aside for way too long. -the NEX store was just insulting. Not only were CCP releasing feck all content for the last 3 expansions, but they were charging extortionate money for a good deal of it. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tippia wrote:MotherMoon wrote:RIIIIIGHT If not the opportunity cost, what do you think the bitching is all about?
it's about what it was about when Dominion 1st came out! and tyrannis!
everyone said, hey ccp, stop making all these new half finished expansions and fix the game already. hybrids need to be balanced, sov is still broken, where is the treaties system you promised? Alliances are bigger than before. Ships need to be be balanced. PI is still *****, where is the fully featured version we were promised are you going to finish that? what happen to Factional warefare? When are you going to follow through on those capital ship changes?
and then
WAHBAM incursions comes out,w tih 0 of anythign the palyerbase was asking for. just a big.
OMG guys, you know all that unfinished content we released? well guess what... here is more stuff we made form scratch instead of following through! yayayayayayay!
I mean I like incursions, but the time put into making them would of been enough time to finish what this newest expansion did, and more.
remember they said they only had 4 to 6 weeks because they were working on something else up until that point that got canned. So with the time and devs they had to FiS for incursions, they could of fixed everything in this expansion, AND fw, AND sov.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Razin wrote:MotherMoon wrote: That 1 room was not "all they had done" don't make me laugh. it was all that was ready. I was able to rip all of the bars and factional CQs from the sisi build. I posted a thread with the screen shots.
Also at fanfest they showed all of the shaders and tech needed to get it off the ground.
Do you think that building the interior environments is all that multiplayer WIS is about? And even if it was, the performance of released CQs shows that even that is years away away from something that can be called "done".
see I wouldn't say say years, since the newest build of CQ runs fine, and looks fine. They just had to focus on FiS content that needed to be fixed instead of making a bunch of new FiS features while half the game was unfinished and unbalanced.
Is incarna came out this next summer instead it would of been great. just 1 year of polish and optimizing. Releasing a beta prototype build of a single room is insulting. and in no way shows what an engine is able to run on. it was an unfinished piece of ****. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:it's about what it was about when Dominion 1st came out! and tyrannis!
everyone said, hey ccp, stop making all these new half finished expansions and fix the game already. hybrids need to be balanced, sov is still broken, where is the treaties system you promised? Alliances are bigger than before. Ships need to be be balanced. PI is still *****, where is the fully featured version we were promised are you going to finish that? what happen to Factional warefare? When are you going to follow through on those capital ship changes?
and then
WAHBAM incursions comes out,w tih 0 of anythign the palyerbase was asking for. just a big. GÇ£OMG guys, you know all that unfinished content we released? well guess what... here is more stuff we made form scratch instead of following through! yayayayayayayGÇ¥! GǪin other words, the opportunity cost. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
211
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tippia wrote:MotherMoon wrote:it's about what it was about when Dominion 1st came out! and tyrannis!
everyone said, hey ccp, stop making all these new half finished expansions and fix the game already. hybrids need to be balanced, sov is still broken, where is the treaties system you promised? Alliances are bigger than before. Ships need to be be balanced. PI is still *****, where is the fully featured version we were promised are you going to finish that? what happen to Factional warefare? When are you going to follow through on those capital ship changes?
and then
WAHBAM incursions comes out,w tih 0 of anythign the palyerbase was asking for. just a big. GǣOMG guys, you know all that unfinished content we released? well guess what... here is more stuff we made form scratch instead of following through! yayayayayayayGǥ! GǪin other words, the opportunity cost.
but not of WiS.
my point is the opportunity cost. has nothing to do wtih making WiS. it's the the opportunity cost of making ****** FiS expansions based around content no one asked for! |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: my point is the opportunity cost. has nothing to do wtih making WiS. it's the the opportunity cost of making ****** FiS expansions based around content no one asked for!
Eh? People had been asking for -sleeper style smart and dangerous rats in more accessible locations -rewarding group only content for aaaaaages.. Incursion delivered. |
Vallek Arkonnis
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
For me it's not the opportunity cost but the lack of, well, any meat. I really didn't care that that WiS was being co-developed side-by-side with WoD (that's smart, imo.) or that there was talk of microtransactions; sue me but as long as CCP keeps making profits EVE will remain online for me to enjoy. My issue is that Incarna was hyped and when released there was very little to it. Was I expecting Incarna to be the Eve Vision Trailer? No, but I was expecting more than what was delivered. |
ight8
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
If CCP is gonna continue with the human models walking in stations, I want Topless female poll dancers. This is Internet spaceships folks, time to get serious!!! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1860
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 18:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:but not of WiS. RightGǪ so the bitching about Incarna is not about Incarna. That makes senseGǪ errrrrGǪ
Quote:my point is the opportunity cost. has nothing to do wtih making WiS. Of course it does. WiS generated those costs just like everything else GÇö the bitching about Incarna is all about how that dev time could have been put to better use elsewhere (to which degree is a matter of heated discussion). Those FiS expansions you're talking about are a result of this focus. You're acting as if WiS had no cost, and then go on to demonstrate this by pointing towards the minuscule left-overs from the WiS focus.
You're apparently trying to say that the bitching about incarna is due to the lower-quality FiS features that were nevertheless squeezed in, in spite of the massive WiS focus. That's just silly. The complaint is about the focus on Incarna at the cost of everything else. You're trying to use the fact that people aren't happy with the quality of the left-overs as some kind of proof that they had no complaints about having to eat left-overs to begin with.
Again, the bitching is about WiS, and how it stole resources away from other development; it's about the opportunity cost of WiS; it's about how we were fed left-overs GÇö the quality of those left-overs is a completely different area of complains (if anything, as part of the complaints about Incarna, people have pointed to that quality as further proof that WiS has come at too high a cost). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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