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Taipan Gedscho
Taipan Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.23 15:51:00 -
[61]
ONE thing that boggles me all the time:
people are complaining about the system being chance based and all...
isn't a big part of drone/turret damage also chance based?
and when we're talking 'bout wrecking hits this becomes a real big issue.
am i right there, or did i miss something?
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.10.23 15:53:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
ONE thing that boggles me all the time:
people are complaining about the system being chance based and all...
isn't a big part of drone/turret damage also chance based?
and when we're talking 'bout wrecking hits this becomes a real big issue.
am i right there, or did i miss something?
Yes, the fact that a turret doesn't have a 30% chance of taking someone out of the fight for 20+ seconds.
_______________________________________
Sign the petition against jump queues! |
inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.10.23 15:55:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
isn't a big part of drone/turret damage also chance based?
and when we're talking 'bout wrecking hits this becomes a real big issue.
am i right there, or did i miss something?
It's all about granularity and polarisation.
A turret will fire many, many times during a fight as will a drone. The average damage dealt in each fight, assuming even resists, will be roughly the same. Hit quality can also be influenced through many different factors, partly fitting and partly maneouvering. ECM has a much, much longer cycle than the RoF of most weapons and its success rate is only affected by signal strength.
The effects of a poor hit are also far less polarised than a failed ECM cycle.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:01:00 -
[64]
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Instagib
Amarr
Reykjavik University Corpus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:04:00 -
[65]
Ugh.. trying to get some feeling for this..
If the current system is..
Normal ships:
Multi: 4.8*1.25 = 6.0
Racial: 7.2*1.25 = 9.0
5% ECM ships:
Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.25 = 7.5
Racial: 7.2*1.25*1.25 = 11.25
10% ECM ships:
Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.5 = 9.0
Racial: 7.2*1.25*1.5 = 13.5
Now for some pure imaginary numbers..
Lets say they..
1) Half the ECM strength
2) Double the strength of ECM bonuses on ships that already have them
3) Give BB and Griffin 5% ECM bonus (maybe 10% for BB)
4) Create a ECM low slot mod that boosts strength by 50%, lets call it EMOD
Then we would have something like..
EMOD multipliers (stacks)
0x EMOD = 1 = 1.0x
1x EMOD = 1*(1+.5*1) = 1.5x
2x EMOD = 1*(1+.5*1)*(1+.5*.87) = 2.15x
3x EMOD = 1*(1+.5*1)*(1+.5*.87)*(1+.5*.57) = 2.77x
4x EMOD = 1*(1+.5*1)*(1+.5*.87)*(1+.5*.57)*(1+.5*.28) = 3.15x
Normal no bonus ships:
0x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*.5*1.0 = 3.0
1x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*.5*1.5 = 4.5
0x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*.5*1.0 = 4.5
2x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*.5*2.15 = 6.45
1x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*.5*1.5 = 6.75
3x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*.5*2.77 = 8.31
2x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*.5*2.15 = 9.68
3x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*.5*2.77 = 12.47
5% ECM ships (e.g. Griffin, maybe BB)
0x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.25*.5*1.0 = 3.75
1x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.25*.5*1.5 = 5.63
0x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.25*.5*1.0 = 5.63
2x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.25*.5*2.15 = 8.06
1x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.25*.5*1.5 = 8.44
3x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.25*.5*2.77 = 10.39
2x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.25*.5*2.15 = 12.09
3x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.25*.5*2.77 = 15.58
10% ECM ships (e.g. Scorp, maybe BB)
0x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.5*.5*1.0 = 4.5
1x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.5*.5*1.5 = 6.75
0x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.5*.5*1.0 = 6.75
2x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.5*.5*2.15 = 9.68
1x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.5*.5*1.5 = 10.13
3x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*1.5*.5*2.77 = 12.47
2x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.5*.5*2.15 = 14.51
3x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*1.5*.5*2.77 = 18.70
20% ECM ships (e.g. Rook/Falcon)
0x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*2.0*.5*1.0 = 6.0
1x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*2.0*.5*1.5 = 9.0
0x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*2.0*.5*1.0 = 9.0
2x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*2.0*.5*2.15 = 12.90
1x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*2.0*.5*1.5 = 13.5
3x EMOD, Multi: 4.8*1.25*2.0*.5*2.77 = 16.62
2x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*2.0*.5*2.15 = 19.35
3x EMOD, Raical: 7.2*1.25*2.0*.5*2.77 = 24.93
Again just some random imaginary numbers, I think they show the concept works at least works. Nerfing single ECM, no bonus ships, while making dedicated ECM ships even stronger... ugh.. well maybe not the best numbers I picked
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Ituralde
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:05:00 -
[66]
So, in other words, since ECM is too good, lets restrict it (at least multispecs) to ECM ships that are... you guessed it, all Caldari.
Not too bad in concept but really not a viable fix.
I might mention that ECM is the biggests wild card for the ACpest and that should probably be looked at...
Fear is the mind-killer. |
Chronus26
Gallente
Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:05:00 -
[67]
Exactly what I was hoping for in a fix, it's the simplest way and requires no serious new feature implementation which means less chance for new bugs to slip into the system. Which Is good. Yup.
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Move along, nothing to see here... |
Octavio Santillian
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:09:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Trac3rt
Edited by: Trac3rt on 23/10/2006 14:16:01
So ECM has gone from an overpowered broken module that everyone can use, to a broken overpowered module that only the Caldari can use, and will get an EW 'damage mod' lowslot module to make them even more broken and overpowerd. ...
QFT
There are two problems with ECM: 1) the absolutely crushing devastation of its effect, 2) and to a lesser extent the degree to which it is chance based.
The way I see it, ships that can afford to fit ECM will still do so after the fix because the effect of ECM is completely overpowering. So we will have is a situation were fitting become even less interesting because people who can afford to sacrife even more slots to ECM will do so, and those who can't afford to fit ECM will be totally, and I mean totally screwed!
You want a true ECM solution. Make ECM a dedicated module like a cove ops cloak, and give every race at least 1 dedicated ECM ship in the three primary classes (i.e. frigate, cruiser, and BS). The Caldari can keep their ECM recons to give them a slight ECM edge. ItÆs just that simple.
Another option is to change the effect of ECM so that it only breaks existing locks, thus forcing opponents to relock. This way ECM is more powerful when mixed with dampeners and ECCM is more powerful when mixed with sensor boosters.
IÆm glad to see that there is a realization that ECM is crazy overpowered, but this solution is just another F*&@ing Caldari boost.
ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:13:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/10/2006 16:13:22
Originally by: Octavio Santillian
IÆm glad to see that there is a realization that ECM is crazy overpowered, but this solution is just another F*&@ing Caldari boost.
It is called, side-effects. Not Caldari's fault.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Nyxus
GALAXIAN
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:15:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
I like it. A lot. I am still sacrificing a slot or 2 but at least then I could shoot back.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:18:00 -
[71]
Give caldari target painters (because they're excellent with missiles) and make ECM Minmatar (because we wouldn't mind having a defensive form of EW, at least for a couple of months).
_______________________________________
Sign the petition against jump queues! |
Octavio Santillian
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:21:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/10/2006 16:13:22
Originally by: Octavio Santillian
IÆm glad to see that there is a realization that ECM is crazy overpowered, but this solution is just another F*&@ing Caldari boost.
It is called, side-effects. Not Caldari's fault.
Never said it was the Caldari's fault. They are just the beneficiary.
ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:22:00 -
[73]
No no no.
The problem with ECM is not jammer strength. It's the fact that a single non-EW frigate has a random chance to jam the BS, rendering it completely useless for 20 seconds (imagine what happens in a fleet battle in 20 seconds). It completely negates the use for any modules increasing the sensor strength, cause that chance is absolutely random and no matter what your sensor strength is, after the jamming succeeds, you are sitting duck.
Why not make jammers have the same penalty as firing larger missiles at faster/smaller ships, but in reverse?
Right now, if you fire larger missiles at smaller ships, the smaller ship takes a reduced damage. The rationale is: "if you want to hit smaller ships, fit smaller launchers or field a smaller ship"
Have the same in reverse for jammers: if you want to render a bigger ship useless through jamming, field a bigger ship.
How to make it work? Leave the jamming chance as is, but change the duration of being jammed to depend on the sensor strength of the jammer and the ship being jammed.
So
- If a frigate jams a frigate, the jammed duration is 20 seconds (no change)
- If a frigate jams a cruiser, the jammed duration is 10 seconds (because the cruiser has higher sensor strength than the frigate)
- If a frigate jams a battleship, the jammed duration is only 5 seconds (cause the battleship has a high sensor strength)
- If a BS jams a frigate, the jammed duration is 20 seconds (no change, cause the BS has overpowering sensor strength)
- If a cruiser jams a frigate, the jammed duraction is 20 seconds (no change again, cause the cruiser has overpowering sensor strength).
Now dont forget that the above will be offset by the relocking times.
In a Frigate vs Battleship, even though the BS is only jammed for 5 seconds, it will have a high penalty cause it will take it long time (5-15 seconds) to relock the frigate. However in a fleet situation, if the above Battleship gets jammed by a small frigate, it can quickly recover (5 seconds) and continue fleet fighting within 2-3 seconds it would take to lock other fleet battleships.
This way, small ships can still hinder bigger ship's electronics. But considering that bigger ships have more powerful electronics, they recover quicker. So if you want to efficiently jam an enemy BS, you need to bring your own EW-dedicated BS.
Similarly, EW-dedicated smaller ships can have a bonus to the jamming duration (upto the maximum of 20 seconds).
This does not change the ECM's defensive role. Whether you are a hauler, frigate or a BS, you still have the same chance to break the enemy's lock and get away.
This will however stop the absurd of small frigates rendering bigger ships (with more powerful and sophisticated electronics) useless for too long in fleet encounters
p.s. the number above are only for example. If this is to be implemented, it will be by comparing the sensor strengths between ships
===================================
Above comments are my personal views, and do not represent my corporation or alliance, unless otherwise indicated |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:24:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
I like this idea, also makes sense to train up targeting skill and multi-tasking skill high up for ppl that dont see a point in them.. like me 
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Vladimir Norkoff
Crimson Knights Trade Federation
Thundering Mantis
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:28:00 -
[75]
Quote:
IÆm glad to see that there is a realization that ECM is crazy overpowered, but this solution is just another F*&@ing Caldari boost.
I f-ing wish.. This probably just killed Caldari ECM.. ECM gets lowered, the ship gets bonuses, and you get a low slot mod to boost ECM to get it all back to where it is now??.. Umm.. Caldari don't have low slots to spare.. They have fewer lows than any other race, and those lows are generally used for fitting.. Ouch.. Gonna wait to see how this turns out, but my guess is that Caldari just got their gonads stomped on.. Glad I switched over to Gallente..
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ProphetGuru
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:29:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
Now that has potential.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Tsar Maul
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:29:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
Just because I don't post as often doesn't mean you can steal my ideas ;)
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tsar Maul
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
Just because I don't post as often doesn't mean you can steal my ideas ;)
I did not steal. Might have come from somewhere. If it is yours, thank you. If not, geniuses think alike. :)
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:45:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Tasty Burger on 23/10/2006 16:49:52
Originally by: Trac3rt
Edited by: Trac3rt on 23/10/2006 14:16:01
So ECM has gone from an overpowered broken module that everyone can use, to a broken overpowered module that only the Caldari can use, and will get an EW 'damage mod' lowslot module to make them even more broken and overpowerd. Good going Tux! :rolleyes:
As other people have said, the module needs to be balanced with the other EW. TDs and SDs cripple but don't completely disable the other ship while ECM is an 'I-Win' button on a ship setup to use it properly.
Quoted for truth.
These changes just screw over the other EW ships, tempests, and other ships because:
a. ecm is better than a shield tank because shield tanking sucks
b. other EW is less effective because it doesnt break lock/work on everything
c. sigh... caldari FTW AGAIN
Pidgeon-holing modules into distinct ships is a BAD IDEA.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
I like this idea very much.
Originally by: Ituralde
So, in other words, since ECM is too good, lets restrict it (at least multispecs) to ECM ships that are... you guessed it, all Caldari.
Not too bad in concept but really not a viable fix.
I might mention that ECM is the biggests wild card for the ACpest and that should probably be looked at...
Yep...
Originally by: Octavio Santillian
Another option is to change the effect of ECM so that it only breaks existing locks, thus forcing opponents to relock. This way ECM is more powerful when mixed with dampeners and ECCM is more powerful when mixed with sensor boosters.
IÆm glad to see that there is a realization that ECM is crazy overpowered, but this solution is just another F*&@ing Caldari boost.
The rest of your post is stupid but I agree with this idea above.
This change, simply put, solves the "problem" of ECM on non-caldari ships, which isnt a problem, except that ECM as a whole is overpowered. Restricting an overpowered module to just one race is ridiculous.
Fix ECM, don't restrict it. I suggest:
a. Make ECM only break locks, combine with damps for winnage
b. somehow make ECM not effective on some targets (like damps/TDs are atm)
c. use jenny's ECCM suggestion above
d. remove multispecs
Oh yeah. ECM 'damage mods' are a bad idea.
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inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: ProphetGuru
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
Now that has potential.
I like it, although it's a huge swing in the other direction for small gang fights. When there's proportionally less targets to lock, you waste less time relocking them with ECM upon you.
Which is, perhaps, not even a bad thing.
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:48:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 23/10/2006 16:51:58
Originally by: Tuxford
Step 1: Lower the jam strength of all ECM modules,
Step 2: Increase the ship bonuses of all dedicated ECM ships,
Step 3a: Create a new low slot module that boosts the jam strength of all ECM modules,
Step 3b: Stacking nerf the jam strength attribute.
Step 1 must apply a reduction large enough that fitting a pair of ECM damage mods to a ship without a strength bonus, does not return the jam strength of an ECM module to anywhere near current strength and effectiveness.
Otherwise, people will still fit ECM to Ravens, plate them, laugh at their new hitpoint increase, and add a pair of ECM damage mods to restore much of their previous functionality. Other ships with a good balance of mids and lows (eg Dominix) may also find that plates > repairers in the new long fights, and set up for pure hitpoint endurance and maximising jam strength rather than active tank.
What you then have is once again, a class of non-ECM specialised ships which are unassailable solo.
The idea has potential, but when considering all the delicate balancing you do between these four factors, please get Steps 1 and 3 right. Otherwise everyone with no mids to spare is even more stuffed.
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:52:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
The problem I see with this is that it makes ecm useless in a 1v1 fight. You will never be able to jam the enemy, completely rendering your ecm mod useless.
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LoKesh
Amarr
InQuest Ascension
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:54:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Old Geeza
Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
ONE thing that boggles me all the time:
people are complaining about the system being chance based and all...
isn't a big part of drone/turret damage also chance based?
and when we're talking 'bout wrecking hits this becomes a real big issue.
am i right there, or did i miss something?
Yes, the fact that a turret doesn't have a 30% chance of taking someone out of the fight for 20+ seconds.
No... a turret just removes someone from the fight permanently.
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:03:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Chode Rizoum on 23/10/2006 17:03:25
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Shin Ra
I have officially lost faith in Tuxford.
Bring back TomB.
agreed 
TomB never went anywhere. He's the lead game designer and every single change I make is sanctioned by him. Not only because he is lead game designer but also because I have tremendous respect for him. I don't run it only by TomB either I talk to Hammerhead and Oveur as well.
just ignore does *****ers..
and look at my nidhoggur 
edit: why is c rackers profanity 
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:04:00 -
[85]
Just to clarify, the ecm jam is not based on a "random chance". It is based on a probability that is dictated by the respective strengths of ecm mods and sensor strengths. If the chance to jam were truly random, then there would be no point in equipping jammers that have higher strengths.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:07:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Shin Ra on 23/10/2006 17:07:14
Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Shin Ra
I have officially lost faith in Tuxford.
Bring back TomB.
agreed
TomB never went anywhere. He's the lead game designer and every single change I make is sanctioned by him. Not only because he is lead game designer but also because I have tremendous respect for him. I don't run it only by TomB either I talk to Hammerhead and Oveur as well.
Dude, seirously. Its not in your job description to be liked by us.
3 Major issues have come out of your proposed changed and you have commented on none of them
1) Amarr omgwtf! 100 page thread and all you said is "I don't play amarr" or something that I suspect was supposed to be a joke but was certainly not funny to anyone who fits a laser. There are far to many problems, many of which I don't even know about, but they are certainly the weakest race right now.
2) ECM is still broken. People do not like the chanced based element (and its a different kind of chance based element from guns). There are loads of options and suggestions out there (ala TomB's EW thread a while back).
This change will NOT make the problem go away. It will mask part of the problem and create a whole host of other problems. Also, you don't mention EW drones. How will they be affected?
3) HP increased. I totally forgot what I was gonna rant about here, but it was good. Oh yeah and the minmatar carriers suck.
Anyway my point:
Listen to people, and acknowledge their points even if you don't intend to change it. Let them know whats going on.
Rather than saying: This will change to X etc.
There is a problem with x. Currently people x. This causes y. So we are changing x to z in an attempt to stop y for occuring. We realise this will not stop y completely and welcome ideas and comments regarding possible side-effects. If you think you have discovered a problem or serious side effect, please post on abc thread.
If we can understand your reasoning a bit better, then we more easily point out areas you may have missed.
Shin Ra
P.S FFS spend just 1 hours this week reading the amarr thread and come up with a decent kind of reply.
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Attak
Trioptimum
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:12:00 -
[87]
Kudos to Tux for not ignoring the problem, and the fix is a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping for something more creative though, but then balancing(ha!) becomes even more difficult.
My only request is, make the lowslot ECM mod work for all EW types? As in, boost range for ECM, damps, TP's, ect.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:13:00 -
[88]
I don't think that I could be more disappointed.
As I see it, the issue with ECM is that it breaks locks, and that at the same time so many modules need a lock to perform. Even so many modules that do not require a lock are absolutely useless without one: tracking computers for instance.
As long as EW messes with the ability to lock, no matter the chance, the penalties, and the side effects, it's going to a problem game-play wise.
I can't add anything I haven't posted ten times in the pasts months already so I'll leave it as it is, and finally train caldari BS V before torp V.
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Malvahne
Amarr
Wulong Mercenaries
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:21:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
Props to this solution, it has my vote.
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:39:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Can boost two anti-ecm mods along?
Backup array (low slot) - Guaranteed to give 1 target lockable when jammed when module is fitted.
ECCM (mid slot) - Guaranteed to give 2 targets lockable when jammed when module is active.
If you get jammed, you will lose MAX_TARGET - (Backup_array + ECCM) randomly. If you fit counter mods, you can still shoot but not effectively.
Possible issue, in a fleet fight where everyone only has Primary and Secondary locked at any one time, fitting a mid-slot ECCM module will render ships immune to jamming. We don't want ECM to get a WCS style countermeasure. Or perhaps I have completely misunderstood your idea. 
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