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Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:39:00 - [1] Tux, Please turn the Maelstrom 7.5% shield boost bonus into a 10% shield HP bonus. Maybe even turn the RoF bonus into a 5% ( or 7.5% ) damage bonus. That is all Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:41:00 - [2] I dont think a shield hp bonus is too good. Lets say the ship has 10k shields without the bonus. Then you gain only 5000 shield as a battleship bonus? It feels like a big waste of a bonus to me. How many cycles would it take to boost that much shield? Not many. So no, I dont like that idea, but the bonus needs changing. The question is into what... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:42:00 - [3] He did say (forgot where) that he was looking into the shield boost bonus cuz he admited it was relatively useless. Lets hope he does change it for something more appropiate. And yes to the dmg bonus over the RoF. I can see the new bonuses now: 5% ship disintegration per lv 70% chance of ship shutting down all functions.
Colwyn	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:43:00 - [4] I'm just concerened because i specced in minnys believing their stregnth was in their speed.... But now I hear the hyperion will be faster?! Where does that leave minmatar on a battleship level...? Not a happy bunny
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Colwyn I'm just concerened because i specced in minnys believing their stregnth was in their speed.... But now I hear the hyperion will be faster?! Where does that leave minmatar on a battleship level...? Not a happy bunny Its not faster, but pretty close. Hyperion, 130 m/s Tempest 140 m/s Typhoon 150 m/s I think...from memory. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Jim McGregor How many cycles would it take to boost that much shield? Not many. How many cycles can you run when called primary in a fleet? Cause its supposed to be a fleet ship... ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:50:00 - [7] I'm thinking falloff bonus, completely random thought with nothing to backup reasoning why though... ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Guurzak Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:51:00 - [8] I like the plus-hits idea. It applies whether or not you're boosting, so you don't lose your bonus by skipping a tank. It can be used as-is for fleet fittings, or accentuated with extenders and relays for a great passive tank. And, it adds an initial buffer but not a whole lot of mitigated dps over an extended period, so it's not overpowering. If 10% isn't enough, bump it to 12% or 15% and see if that's better.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:51:00 - [9] Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Jim McGregor How many cycles would it take to boost that much shield? Not many. How many cycles can you run when called primary in a fleet? Cause its supposed to be a fleet ship... exactly. 10% shield hp per level + shield extender IIs = passive tank = fleet ship 2 Sensor booster IIs, 2 Tracking computer IIs, 2 Large Shield extender IIs = sex for fleets Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Mila Prestoc I'm thinking falloff bonus, completely random thought with nothing to backup reasoning why though... needs to be a tanking bonus. lets not further move from the other kids on the block. Let rigs do that. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:53:00 - [11] a damage bonus while welcome, is highly unlikely, dont think they gonna change that rof bonus shield boost bonus has to be changed, and yes 10% shield hp is the way to go, especially as it would fit the philosophy of heavy and good tank after which the mael was designed Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:54:00 - [12] Indeed! 10% shield hit point bonus! The Maelstrom comes with 9600 shield hit points and 1500s recharge (the others have 2000s). These 10% extra hit points will mean: a) Better viability and survivability in fleet combat b) Better shield extenders(!) c) Very, very, good passive tanking possibilities - What am I listening to?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Jim McGregor How many cycles would it take to boost that much shield? Not many. How many cycles can you run when called primary in a fleet? Cause its supposed to be a fleet ship... exactly. 10% shield hp per level + shield extender IIs = passive tank = fleet ship 2 Sensor booster IIs, 2 Tracking computer IIs, 2 Large Shield extender IIs = sex for fleets Well, ive already given up on the ship as a fleet ship. I mean, they call it fleet ship, but its really a mission runner. Nobody will pick this ship over the Rohk if they can help it, because it doesnt have any advantages. And if you do the math and compare the Rohks shield resistances to the proposed shield hp buff, I think the Rohk STILL comes out on top in effective hp, and on top of it also have fantastic untouchable range etc. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Lydia Browm Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:56:00 - [14] I would like that bonus, all you need is a gang mate in a tackler fit say a small calliber artillery cannon I don't know Fit a 6 slot tank I have a brilliant set up in mind tho your not allowed to know what it is . If my calculations are right with best mods and Implants if crystals stay the same that is it will be repping like 5k shield at a time just a guess tho well i educated guess ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty...
Colwyn	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:25:00 - [15] Is hyperion faster than phoon and tempest with mwd ?! How the hell are we suppossed to compete on bs level anymore
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:29:00 - [16] shield hp + dmg bonus = better fleet bonuses. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Colwyn Is hyperion faster than phoon and tempest with mwd ?! How the hell are we suppossed to compete on bs level anymore Did you miss my reply? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Colwyn	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:34:00 - [18] Hiya Jim, no I didnt... was wondering what happens with mwd though ? I dont mind it so much with the Maelstrom because it's essentially a fleet ship even though the bonuses need looking at. But phoon and pest were kind of speed reliant
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Colwyn Hiya Jim, no I didnt... was wondering what happens with mwd though ? I dont mind it so much with the Maelstrom because it's essentially a fleet ship even though the bonuses need looking at. But phoon and pest were kind of speed reliant No, it's not faster than the Typhoon or Tempest. It's slower. - What am I listening to?
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:02:00 - [20] The Caldari Transports also have a shield boost bonus per level, which is a tad bit un-needed. Merc Blog
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.24 20:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Karash Amerius The Caldari Transports also have a shield boost bonus per level, which is a tad bit un-needed. anyways.... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:03:00 - [22] I would rather have a 10% HP per level bonus for shields, fits much better w/ the Minmatar philosophy of hard hit and run, boosting takes too much cap for it to be used effectively in such operations Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Red Six Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:10:00 - [23] Yeah, I like the idea of 10% Shield HP per level too. In a fleet fight I'd rather have a RoF bonus than damage so increasing it to 7.5% sounds good to me too. Good ideas Kaylana. Originally by: Eridu Fallen Upon closer inspection, that Caldari BS doesn't even look like it got hit with the ugly stick, it looks like it is the ugly stick.
Lexor SLice Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:10:00 - [24] yep, i can certainly live with 10% shield HP per level instead of the boost bonus. makes it actually useful in fleets. ____________________________________________
CelticWarrior Lords Of Guile Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:11:00 - [25] whats the base locking range of this ship? how can u run any kind of shield tank if u gotta put on sensor boosters to be able to target the rokh etc
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.10.24 21:38:00 - [26] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/10/2006 21:43:12 Originally by: Jim McGregor The passive tank idea might work though, maybe. Someone crunch the numbers please and compare to the Rohks resistance bonus? The math's simple and can be found here. Quote: Let's assume that the damage done s (in hp/s) is higher than the tank r (in hp/s), as else the tank doesn't break and the fight is infinite. Total hp is called h (in hp obviously). Damage done after tanking = (s-r).t hp at the end of the fight (time t). The ship dies after h=(s-r).t <=> t=h/(s-r). h and r are functions of ship, skills, and modules and as such are parameters. s is the variable. Various tanks have each a function t(s)=h/(s-r) and tanks can be compared for each possible s on the damage scale. Resistance bonus: t(s)=(h/.75)/(s-r/.75) Shield hp bonus: t(s)=(h1.5)/(s-r) Tanks are equal: <=> their "t" is equal <=> (h1.5)/(s-r)=(h/.75)/(s-r/.75) <=> s/r=4 So, the shield hp bonus is better than the resistance bonus when the tank is outdamaged by more than 300%. Assuming a t2 tank (500 dps of raw damage or so) we are talking about 2000+ dps of raw damage as breakdown point, or fight times of a few seconds. NB. In Rust We Trust
aNtis0cial Pod Killing Machines	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:42:00 - [27] Go die far away fleet geeks. 7.5% bonus > 10% hp. and no mael is not a fleet ship anymore just read the description.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.24 22:47:00 - [28] I think the HP bonus would create a 'slightly' overpowered passive tank on that ship. Give it a trackign bonus instead! --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Leandro Salazar I think the HP bonus would create a 'slightly' overpowered passive tank on that ship. Give it a trackign bonus instead! You'd be hardpressed to do anything useful with that passive tank outside of fleet battles. Considering Tux said he wanted the Maelstorm to be a tanking artillery boat the 10% shield hp bonus makes more sense than the 7.5% shield boost bonus. Just playing around a bit with numbers I've been able to create a viable setup that gives it a maximum shield regen of 60 hp/s (large shield booster ii) and allows it to get out of bubbles fast + some resists. When I went with a siege setup I could push it to 81 hp/s. Remember, these kind of setups require you to have sensor boosters, damage mods and tracking computers/ew. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:15:00 - [30] Why's it have to be a tanking bonus? What about 10% optimal, falloff, or tracking?
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Phelan Lore Why's it have to be a tanking bonus? What about 10% optimal, falloff, or tracking? 10% optimal = err... yes pls? I want to be overpowered >_<. 10% falloff = ac boat while it's been stated it's intented as an artillery boat. 7.5% tracking = doesn't really matter that much for the ranges in fleet battles. If someone goes for a closerange slug fest it'll be useful. Otherwise it's an ok bonus at best but won't really matter. I'd rather have a useful tanking bonus instead of tracking. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:29:00 - [32] Originally by: Phelan Lore Why's it have to be a tanking bonus? What about 10% optimal, falloff, or tracking? because the dev-stated philosophy behind the mael is: artillery boat, heavy and slow, strong tank Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.10.25 04:37:00 - [33] If the mael got 10% shield hp per level, it would only be logical to make the hyperion bonus 10% armor per level, which would cause a bucketload of amarr whines along the line of "not only do we not have enough cap to run our reppers because lasers are messed up, even more so on the aba, and even more appearent now that combat lasts longer thanks to hp increase, but now gallente have more hitpoints as well, I thought we were supposed to be armor tanking specialists?". Just a thought. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Scordite If the mael got 10% shield hp per level, it would only be logical to make the hyperion bonus 10% armor per level, which would cause a bucketload of amarr whines along the line of "not only do we not have enough cap to run our reppers because lasers are messed up, even more so on the aba, and even more appearent now that combat lasts longer thanks to hp increase, but now gallente have more hitpoints as well, I thought we were supposed to be armor tanking specialists?". Just a thought. I disagree with the idea that a mirror is logical. The roles are entirely different. The Maelstrom is to be a fleet artillery boat with a heavy tank. Fleet to me means: 1. No time to be messing around with shield boosters, because even the fastest cycle isn't going to mean anything. 2. Targeting range capability as close to the hard cap on lock range as possible. 3. Enougn range modifiers to push your weapons' range as close to your max lock range as possible. Now it's been said that the Maelstrom was intended to be a "heavily tanked fleet artillery ship". If you eliminate a shield booster (which I think is a given) you're not left with too many options. You can increase shield size, or you can increase resistance. It's pretty much one way or the other. Since the Caldai have resistance sewn up, that leaves really only one option left, and that's a straight HP increase. The way I see this, you either admit that the HP bonus is the only one that makes sense if resistance isn't an option, or you scrap the concept and look for a role where the boost bonus makes sense. I'll let the Gallante pilots worry about their own ships. Not that I don't want everyone to get something good in their tier 3 slot, but I can't see ignoring a good solution to a problem out of fear of what someone else might or might not want and how people may or may not whine about that. J.A.F.O.
Lord Augustus	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:08:00 - [35] You Got To Be Joking.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:14:00 - [36] to me.... heavily tanked = shield booster heavily buffered = shield amount imo I'm actually looking forward to the ship with this bonus, get a nice booster and you'll be able to rep during a fleet battle (unless you're primary but in that case you're dead anyway) 8x 1400mm II XL SB II, 2x invul II, 2x SB II, 1x TC II 3x gyro II, 2x TE II
Jonay 3B Legio IX Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:23:00 - [37] Edited by: Jonay on 25/10/2006 06:24:42 Edited by: Jonay on 25/10/2006 06:24:25 I think 10% shield is crap, if you are primary you will die anyway, 10 or more against one target, maybe you can survive until the second voley, but that could be 3 second more. Another idea, if Scyte has stolen systems from the osprey, make Maelstorm have stolem systems from Rokh, it already have same slots, make it have same bonuses.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:40:00 - [38] Originally by: Deathbarrage to me.... heavily tanked = shield booster heavily buffered = shield amount imo I'm actually looking forward to the ship with this bonus, get a nice booster and you'll be able to rep during a fleet battle (unless you're primary but in that case you're dead anyway) 8x 1400mm II XL SB II, 2x invul II, 2x SB II, 1x TC II 3x gyro II, 2x TE II You will always be called primary. Why? Its bloody obvious. You are doing alpha and have the weakest tank. The bonus of this ship is clearly meant for pirating in low sec or mission running. Bleh... no thanks. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Jonay Edited by: Jonay on 25/10/2006 06:24:42 Edited by: Jonay on 25/10/2006 06:24:25 I think 10% shield is crap, if you are primary you will die anyway, 10 or more against one target, maybe you can survive until the second voley, but that could be 3 second more. Another idea, if Scyte has stolen systems from the osprey, make Maelstorm have stolem systems from Rokh, it already have same slots, make it have same bonuses. 10% shield is the only proper bonus this ship can get for shield tanking to be a FLEET ship. Not a flotsam, not a trio, not a little orgy of ships... A FLEET. Passive tanking will give it the ability to alpha strike and leave... recharge its main tank naturally... and get back into the fight. If you have ever seen a good fleet move they dont' stay for long. They keep changing sniper positions and widdle the enemy of ships before they take losses. You will still see mega, tempests, geddons and apocs in fleets. What would you choose as a primary first? If you answered resistance boosted or HP boosted ships you are crazy and know nothing of fleet combat and probably are the kind of pilot that shoots Scorpions in fleet combat where they are 160km off ( they put those there to make you think they have ECM all the while they are t2 jav torps with a massive shield tank to absorb idiot FC's calling them primary because they are ECM boats ) 10% HP gives you the best of both worlds. Its not a resistance bonus but it works like one. It gives you the ability to active or passive tank and the ship has enough mids and lows to still keep the MANDATORY modules that make your guns actually work. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
John Phalanx	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:01:00 - [40] Are You stupid read the description its not a fleet ship you have the tempest for that stop this discussion is stupid
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:07:00 - [41] Originally by: John Phalanx Are You stupid read the description its not a fleet ship you have the tempest for that stop this discussion is stupid Are You stupid read the stats for the ship... where in EVE PVP does a 115 m/s active shield tank bonused 8 turret slot minmatar ship fit? If you say gate camping in empire then you loose at life... which is the only place that bloody bonus is useful. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ipod	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:07:00 - [42] Ahh, Stop crying you big babies, at least you aren't stuck flying Amarr.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:16:00 - [43] Originally by: John Phalanx Are You stupid read the description its not a fleet ship you have the tempest for that stop this discussion is stupid so what in the description told you that the mael isnt a fleet ship? perhaps this part? : "..., while its 8 turret hardpoints present opportunites for untold carnage on the fleet battlefield." it might not be solely intended as such but if you telling me that they made a slow, heavy on tanking concentrated minni ac-boat then you have little clue about ac's or someone at CCP lost his marbles. Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
John Phalanx	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:07:00 - [44] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: John Phalanx Are You stupid read the description its not a fleet ship you have the tempest for that stop this discussion is stupid Are You stupid read the stats for the ship... where in EVE PVP does a 115 m/s active shield tank bonused 8 turret slot minmatar ship fit? If you say gate camping in empire then you loose at life... which is the only place that bloody bonus is useful. In Small Gangs. And This Is The Part Of The Description That Tells me what is the Maelstom For "ideally suited for small raid groups or solo work"
Rockbox Amarr Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:17:00 - [45] I don't know about you guys but if it keeps its current shield boosting bonus im putting an MWD heavy shield tank and autocannons on it and taking it for a spin. With a bunch of Gyro IIs in the lows it should be a beast in a small gang Visit us at VETO FORUMS!!1!
Isonkon Serikain Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:18:00 - [46] I'd like a ship that can outdamage the tempest and typhoon... Pity the fool
Druid R Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:24:00 - [47] i was playing about before and got it to boost over 1000 shield every 5s and have decent resists. slap 2 pds t2, 2 gyro t2 and a damage control in the lows , 8 1400's and your laughing. warp in at 40km and blow that hauler away!
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:38:00 - [48] Edited by: Nifel on 25/10/2006 08:40:05 Originally by: Druid R i was playing about before and got it to boost over 1000 shield every 5s and have decent resists. slap 2 pds t2, 2 gyro t2 and a damage control in the lows , 8 1400's and your laughing. warp in at 40km and blow that hauler away! Is that with the current shield boost bonus or the suggested hp bonus? Cause I only get 165 hp/s (825 hp / 5 sec) with 6 shield extenders, 2 pdu2 and the siege warfare gang bonus. edit Was the shield boost bonus >_>. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:44:00 - [49] Originally by: John Phalanx Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: John Phalanx Are You stupid read the description its not a fleet ship you have the tempest for that stop this discussion is stupid Are You stupid read the stats for the ship... where in EVE PVP does a 115 m/s active shield tank bonused 8 turret slot minmatar ship fit? If you say gate camping in empire then you loose at life... which is the only place that bloody bonus is useful. In Small Gangs. And This Is The Part Of The Description That Tells me what is the Maelstom For "ideally suited for small raid groups or solo work" LOL... right. A slow moving ship in a small gang. WHERE IN EVE DOES THAT FIT? Gatecamping in empire that is where. Get a raven and leave my thread. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Druid R i was playing about before and got it to boost over 1000 shield every 5s and have decent resists. slap 2 pds t2, 2 gyro t2 and a damage control in the lows , 8 1400's and your laughing. warp in at 40km and blow that hauler away! exactly... the bonus is for nubtastic empire pirates.... as if the raven and scorpion wasn't already built for such a purpose. /vomit Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
John Phalanx	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:49:00 - [51] Lol. I have a raven and its one if not the best bs in the game for samll gangs and guess whats the speed of the raven????
John Phalanx	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:51:00 - [52] Edited by: John Phalanx on 25/10/2006 09:51:33 empire pirates? you have no clue about eve have you ever been in 0.0 in a gang of say 12 people?? and besides do you really want all of your bs to have the same role?? are you that dumb?
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:11:00 - [53] Really love that attitude. As if fleets were everything. In fact I bet fleets only really matter to a very small percentage of players as they are laggy, unfun and the influence of a single player and his ship/fitting on the outcome is negligible. Even though I am staunch anti-pirate, I consider empire piracy (i.e. solo/small gang combat) a much worthier game style for a great variety of ships than fleet battling. Heck, even being suicide-ganked is more fun imho than fleet-battling. And since the Tempest is already a pretty good fleet ship, I will gladly vomit on your fleet Maelstrom and rather see it turned into a decent mission runner with a tracking bonus (I do agree though that the shield boost bonus is junk) --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:50:00 - [54] Originally by: John Phalanx Edited by: John Phalanx on 25/10/2006 09:51:33 empire pirates? you have no clue about eve have you ever been in 0.0 in a gang of say 12 people?? and besides do you really want all of your bs to have the same role?? are you that dumb? Look stop trolling my thread. I have played EVE longer than I would like to admit and I pvp every day until my friggin eyes bleed in gangs from 3 to 30 people. I have been in 300 man fleet battles as well while being in frigs, BSs to capitals ( at the same time I might add ). If you want to start an epeen contest with me you will fail... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Really love that attitude. As if fleets were everything. In fact I bet fleets only really matter to a very small percentage of players as they are laggy, unfun and the influence of a single player and his ship/fitting on the outcome is negligible. Even though I am staunch anti-pirate, I consider empire piracy (i.e. solo/small gang combat) a much worthier game style for a great variety of ships than fleet battling. Heck, even being suicide-ganked is more fun imho than fleet-battling. And since the Tempest is already a pretty good fleet ship, I will gladly vomit on your fleet Maelstrom and rather see it turned into a decent mission runner with a tracking bonus (I do agree though that the shield boost bonus is junk) When you stop running missions maybe I will listen to you. Until then you can go back to your spreadsheet game and get out of my thread. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:58:00 - [56] Ohh, threads are now the personal property of arrogant elitist PvP-******* ? That's nice. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:01:00 - [57] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 25/10/2006 12:02:00 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Ohh, threads are now the personal property of arrogant elitist PvP-******* ? That's nice. The game is balanced for PVP. Get over it. Edit : btw getting around teh profanity filters is a violation of forum rules. Tread lightly. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Oedus Caro Caldari Caldari Deep Space Ventures	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:13:00 - [58] Somewhat off-topic, but since you're discussing stats changes: could we also move that 1500s shield recharge time over to the Rokh, Caldari supposedly being the shield geeks, or eliminate it altogether? I'm not trying to upset anyone here, rather I'm just voicing a minor problem I have with the Mael's stats. If you've got a rock-solid reason for this particular feature that is contrary to the backstory, please do explain. For the record, I fly Amarr, not Caldari. /me turns on 4 thermal hardeners, a DC, three LAR's and 3 cap chargers to prepare for the flames he reckons he's going to get anyway.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Oedus Caro Edited by: Oedus Caro on 25/10/2006 12:19:57 P.S. Having just read what came immediately above my post: hey Kaylana, way to be a complete ***. If you're that tethered to a game, do think about consulting your local psychiatrist, won't you? for every troll post I get a free bump... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:23:00 - [60] PvE balancing isn't done for two reasons: 1. It affects only one party (hunter). 2. The other party is a computer, rather stupid, and is thus easy to outsmart This is why using PvE as an argument is no argument in a game where PvP is predominant. Oh, and a tracking bonus won't help it very much at all, you know. Try mission/ratting in a Megathron - tracking just doesn't help as much as you think. - What am I listening to?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:23:00 - [61] Originally by: Oedus Caro Somewhat off-topic, but since you're discussing stats changes: could we also move that 1500s shield recharge time over to the Rokh, Caldari supposedly being the shield geeks, or eliminate it altogether? I'm not trying to upset anyone here, rather I'm just voicing a minor problem I have with the Mael's stats. If you've got a rock-solid reason for this particular feature that is contrary to the backstory, please do explain. For the record, I fly Amarr, not Caldari. /me turns on 4 thermal hardeners, a DC, three LAR's and 3 cap chargers to prepare for the flames he reckons he's going to get anyway. for 10% shield HP per level I would say up the shield recharge for the Maelstrom to 1750. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:24:00 - [62] Originally by: Oedus Caro Somewhat off-topic, but since you're discussing stats changes: could we also move that 1500s shield recharge time over to the Rokh, Caldari supposedly being the shield geeks, or eliminate it altogether? i agree, let's give 1500s shield recharge time even to the rokh, is right caldari are the shield specialists... and give to the rokh 4 turret and 4 missiles weapon slots instead of 8 turrets... in the end caldari are missiles specialists and not turret oneS
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:30:00 - [63] Originally by: Ithildin Oh, and a tracking bonus won't help it very much at all, you know. Try mission/ratting in a Megathron - tracking just doesn't help as much as you think. I do it in a Machariel and it does help quite a bit with PvE. Certainly a lot more than a HP boost would. I do have a bit of practical experience (Not the three years that make everyone who has them an omniscient EVE-God , mind you), so I don't just spout this stuff because it looks good or something... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:36:00 - [64] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 25/10/2006 12:19:36 Sure it is balanced for PvP, and that is fine. Doesn't mean I cannot voice my opinion though. And for some odd reason the majority of players seems to be more interested in PvE (yes I know a million of them are not worth as much as a single godly PvPer). So I think a bonus benefitting all (Or would better tracking be such a horrible thing for PvP?) would be better than one only benefitting one specific type of play that most don't even delve into? Besides, avoiding the profanity filter would be something like Tu><f0rd, not using asteriks :P ok... lets say this together... 180+ KM fights don't need tracking bonuses. We already NEED tracking computers and enhancers for optimal range which we have the Least amount on artillery. Tracking stacks btw. So its a pointless request. Tracking bonus would be for autocannons which this ship isn't quite positioned for. Look at the powergrid of the Maelstrom with engineering 5, on current stats available to me, there is 26250 pg. 8 800mm II with advanced weapons upgrade 5 is 15840. What are you going to do with that 10410 PG? Opportunity cost will once again make a broken role'd ship. I'd recon you'd go with 2 Large Armor rep IIs, 1 EANM IIs and a internal force field array and possibly a 1600mm Plate. MWD in the mids, Cap injector, and 4 ewar/eccm midslots. Yeah... can you say turret based horror? Just what we need... a ship that can tank you, gank you and hold off a freind or two of yours while doing it. That would be a trevesty to balance imo. All because you'd like to run missions with an autocannon boat. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:53:00 - [65] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 25/10/2006 12:53:06 Originally by: Kaylana Syi ok... lets say this together... 180+ KM fights don't need tracking bonuses. We already NEED tracking computers and enhancers for optimal range which we have the Least amount on artillery. Tracking stacks btw. So its a pointless request. Like I already said, 180km fleet battles don't concern me, just like PvE doesn't concern you. And ship bonuses are always applied independent of module stacking, so it is NOT a pointless request. Originally by: Kaylana Syi Tracking bonus would be for autocannons which this ship isn't quite positioned for. Look at the powergrid of the Maelstrom with engineering 5, on current stats available to me, there is 26250 pg. 8 800mm II with advanced weapons upgrade 5 is 15840. What are you going to do with that 10410 PG? Opportunity cost will once again make a broken role'd ship. I'd recon you'd go with 2 Large Armor rep IIs, 1 EANM IIs and a internal force field array and possibly a 1600mm Plate. MWD in the mids, Cap injector, and 4 ewar/eccm midslots. Yeah... can you say turret based horror? Just what we need... a ship that can tank you, gank you and hold off a freind or two of yours while doing it. That would be a trevesty to balance imo. All because you'd like to run missions with an autocannon boat. Actually I use arties for mission, with the 37.5% Mach bonus and some good tracking comps you can get enough tracking out of them to get excellent damage at 20-50 km range (with T1 ammo that is, I know probably another 'does not matter' for you) and even be able to hit 90% webbed NPC frigs at 10km (using 1200s). As for ACs, you are probably right in that the Mael is ill quite suited for them. Still would be more interesting than a fleet only ship. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:02:00 - [66] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Actually I use arties for mission, with the 37.5% Mach bonus and some good tracking comps you can get enough tracking out of them to get excellent damage at 20-50 km range (with T1 ammo that is, I know probably another 'does not matter' for you) and even be able to hit 90% webbed NPC frigs at 10km (using 1200s). As for ACs, you are probably right in that the Mael is ill quite suited for them. Still would be more interesting than a fleet only ship. ehm have you tried a phoon in missions instead of an 1200mm mach? should be better both in dps and versatility. imo the phoon is alredy a veeeery fine mission runner, and no need to turn the tier 3 bs to another mission runner... is supposed to be a fleet/arty platform... let's give it bonuses to perform well in this role.
John Phalanx	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: John Phalanx Edited by: John Phalanx on 25/10/2006 09:51:33 empire pirates? you have no clue about eve have you ever been in 0.0 in a gang of say 12 people?? and besides do you really want all of your bs to have the same role?? are you that dumb? Look stop trolling my thread. I have played EVE longer than I would like to admit and I pvp every day until my friggin eyes bleed in gangs from 3 to 30 people. I have been in 300 man fleet battles as well while being in frigs, BSs to capitals ( at the same time I might add ). If you want to start an epeen contest with me you will fail... I dont even know what an epeen is. But let me tell you if you played eve so long looking at your post i can now say you are not a very bright person
Sonho	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:14:00 - [68] The problem isn't the boosting bonus ,i mean come on ,10% per level ?Still crap bonus. Tuxford really needs to tell us that he wants maelstrom to be a fleet BS,and if so what becomes of the tempest?Or rather what becomes of the maelstrom because i'am not seeing anyone using the maelstrom over the tempest in fleet battles . But it is a hard decision imean if he puts a 5% damage boost and a rof bonus it will be overpowered,tracking or falloff bonus only if the BS can be fast and agile and i'am not seeying that one coming .
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 25/10/2006 12:53:06 Originally by: Kaylana Syi ok... lets say this together... 180+ KM fights don't need tracking bonuses. We already NEED tracking computers and enhancers for optimal range which we have the Least amount on artillery. Tracking stacks btw. So its a pointless request. Like I already said, 180km fleet battles don't concern me, just like PvE doesn't concern you. And ship bonuses are always applied independent of module stacking, so it is NOT a pointless request. PVE does concern me... where do you think I make my isk I sink into PVP/Corp expansion/toys with? Quote: Actually I use arties for mission, with the 37.5% Mach bonus and some good tracking comps you can get enough tracking out of them to get excellent damage at 20-50 km range (with T1 ammo that is, I know probably another 'does not matter' for you) and even be able to hit 90% webbed NPC frigs at 10km (using 1200s). As for ACs, you are probably right in that the Mael is ill quite suited for them. Still would be more interesting than a fleet only ship. Machariels require two races skills. Its a faction ship. It pulls its tracking bonus from Gallente skill. If you stop and think a moment you are pigeon holing the maelstrom to being a) short range tech 1 ammo ship c) hail ammo and/or c) quake ammo user. Lets look at this a second.. a) tech 1 short range ammo where does this best fit? Shield tanking Autocannon setups. Tracking bonus would be less useful in this scenario than the original shield booster bonus. b) hail ammo where does this best fit? Obviously autocannons since it is a autocannon ammunition. c) quake where does this best fit? situational t2 pvp that doesn't occur as often as it should and still requires tracking computers/enhancers and some type of tank if you want to last. Quake use is best for medium guns where your not risking 200mil in ship parts for short range combat where a gang of t1 kit noob BSs can happily hit you. Tracking bonus imo is not an option for this ship. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:16:00 - [70] Originally by: John Phalanx Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: John Phalanx Edited by: John Phalanx on 25/10/2006 09:51:33 empire pirates? you have no clue about eve have you ever been in 0.0 in a gang of say 12 people?? and besides do you really want all of your bs to have the same role?? are you that dumb? Look stop trolling my thread. I have played EVE longer than I would like to admit and I pvp every day until my friggin eyes bleed in gangs from 3 to 30 people. I have been in 300 man fleet battles as well while being in frigs, BSs to capitals ( at the same time I might add ). If you want to start an epeen contest with me you will fail... I dont even know what an epeen is. But let me tell you if you played eve so long looking at your post i can now say you are not a very bright person thanks for boosting my thread to the top again... and btw you have been reported for trolling. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
John Phalanx	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:18:00 - [71] Its not suppused to be an fleet bs maybe it was sometime ago but not now get over it. Im not saying its only use its for missions but forget about fleets. I cant understend why do you want to make the tempest obsolete. And whats this about the rokh you want to bring the rokh into the discussion are we comparing battleships now? are you sure you guys want to start comparing battleships? You want to put some missiles hardpoints in the Rokh becouse its our specialty. Ok... lets take away the missiles and drones form all non caldari and non gallente ships, and lets take the shild tanking off non caldari Ships too, you know why Couse it our specialty. Plese next time you want to express your stupidity do it in your corps channel.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:19:00 - [72] Originally by: Sonho The problem isn't the boosting bonus ,i mean come on ,10% per level ?Still crap bonus. Tuxford really needs to tell us that he wants maelstrom to be a fleet BS,and if so what becomes of the tempest?Or rather what becomes of the maelstrom because i'am not seeing anyone using the maelstrom over the tempest in fleet battles . But it is a hard decision imean if he puts a 5% damage boost and a rof bonus it will be overpowered,tracking or falloff bonus only if the BS can be fast and agile and i'am not seeying that one coming . The tempest is and probably always will be used as a geurilla sniper and autocannon deamon. Just like the mega is a good close range ship and sniper. I will use a Maelstrom because it looks better than all the other battleships save for the abaddon ( which my alt will be using ). This ship is also a match made in heaven for logistic ships... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:26:00 - [73] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 25/10/2006 13:28:59 Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Leandro Salazar Actually I use arties for mission, with the 37.5% Mach bonus and some good tracking comps you can get enough tracking out of them to get excellent damage at 20-50 km range (with T1 ammo that is, I know probably another 'does not matter' for you) and even be able to hit 90% webbed NPC frigs at 10km (using 1200s). As for ACs, you are probably right in that the Mael is ill quite suited for them. Still would be more interesting than a fleet only ship. ehm have you tried a phoon in missions instead of an 1200mm mach? should be better both in dps and versatility. imo the phoon is alredy a veeeery fine mission runner, and no need to turn the tier 3 bs to another mission runner... is supposed to be a fleet/arty platform... let's give it bonuses to perform well in this role. Lol of course. I have run missions in every battleship there is so far, except the Scorp. Raven and its faction brethern are of course the number one, but they are kind of boring so when I was rich enough for a second faction-fitted ship I dusted off my Mach and started fitting it for funs sake. Turns out besides being fun it also was quite effective. Instant and full damage against cruisers and frigs really helps, even if total DPS is not staggering (Still close to cruise Raven though). The Phoon really suffers from split slots and too much of its DPS is made up by drones which are somewhat inefficient to use and cannot even be launched in some missions. And if you want to run siegeII + arty you run into serious PG issues. Phoon is really best at close range PvP. That is what I use it for anyway. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Lol of course. I have run missions in every battleship there is so far, except the Scorp. Raven and its faction brethern are of course the number one, but they are kind of boring so when I was rich enough for a second faction-fitted ship I dusted off my Mach and started fitting it for funs sake. Turns out besides being fun it also was quite effective. Instant and full damage against cruisers and frigs really helps, even if total DPS is not staggering (Still close to cruise Raven though). The Phoon really suffers from split slots and too much of its DPS is made up by drones which are somewhat inefficient to use and cannot even be launched in some missions. And if you want to run siegeII + arty you run into serious PG issues. Phoon is really best at close range PvP. That is what I use it for anyway. My CEO does missions in a fully domination/officer kit machariel and while there is something to be said about its ability to stop lvl 4 missions so can my Typhoon with my skills and domination/officer kit. Its the beauty of having an enourmous amount of your SP geared to pure combat. I'd even go a step further to say that the phoon is a better mission ship than the mach in every respect if you had the same amount of SP and Isk invested into it. But you have to have my kind of SP geared to maxing the typhoon out. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:35:00 - [75] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 25/10/2006 13:28:59 Lol of course. I have run missions in every battleship there is so far, except the Scorp. Raven and its faction brethern are of course the number one, but they are kind of boring so when I was rich enough for a second faction-fitted ship I dusted off my Mach and started fitting it for funs sake. Turns out besides being fun it also was quite effective. Instant and full damage against cruisers and frigs really helps, even if total DPS is not staggering (Still close to cruise Raven though). The Phoon really suffers from split slots and too much of its DPS is made up by drones which are somewhat inefficient to use and cannot even be launched in some missions. And if you want to run siegeII + arty you run into serious PG issues. Phoon is really best at close range PvP. That is what I use it for anyway. /OT mode on actually i use cruise + 3 1200mm and it works very well... 1200 on dest, BC and BS, cruise on everything else cept frigs... javs sure will be (ehm where) better dps wise but as you say more pg hungry and waaaay more expensive to use. i also use drones whitout any problem in every mission, the only time i droneaggroed something was cause i was falling asleep and had a drone range mod. /ot mode off
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:37:00 - [76] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:40:09 I think think they should put some focus into the 3 minmatar battleships. Tempest - armor tanked, long range artillery ship. 140 m/s. Typhoon - armor tanked, close range low-tier autocannon/missiles ship. 150 m/s. Maelstrom - shield tanked, speedy, high-tier autocannon ship (bigger Cyclone) 160 m/s But nobody listens to me. The Maelstrom even LOOKS speedy, but... its not. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:38:00 - [77] Well I got T2 Sieges, T2 Heavy drones, dimininshing nossies and a faction tank. Doesn't get much better than that, and I find the Mach to be better than the phoon, even though the Mach only uses T1 guns (albeit Officer ones). But maybe that is just personal preference. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:40:00 - [78] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:38:21 I think think they should put some focus into the 3 minmatar battleships. Typhoon - armor tanked, close range low-tier autocannon/missiles ship. 140 m/s. Tempest - armor tanked, long range artillery ship. 150 m/s. Maelstrom - shield tanked, speedy, high-tier autocannon ship (bigger Cyclone) 160 m/s But nobody listens to me. The Maelstrom even LOOKS speedy, but... its not. I do! I like that. Sadly I don't matter... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:41:00 - [79] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:38:21 I think think they should put some focus into the 3 minmatar battleships. Typhoon - armor tanked, close range low-tier autocannon/missiles ship. 140 m/s. Tempest - armor tanked, long range artillery ship. 150 m/s. Maelstrom - shield tanked, speedy, high-tier autocannon ship (bigger Cyclone) 160 m/s But nobody listens to me. The Maelstrom even LOOKS speedy, but... its not. phoon the slowest ship? argh... shoo shoo if i will change something in the phoon will be 6 missiles/2 turrets, missile rof and speed bonus
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Ath Amon phoon the slowest ship? argh... shoo shoo if i will change something in the phoon will be 6 missiles/2 turrets, missile rof and speed bonus Still faster than the other races. :) But yeah, perhaps give it some more speed, I dont know. :) Too much versatility is just crap. Compare Cyclone and Hurricane. What ship do you want to fly? Exacly, the one without the stinking shield boosting bonus and damage instead. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Vera Nosfyu Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:53:00 - [81] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Ath Amon phoon the slowest ship? argh... shoo shoo if i will change something in the phoon will be 6 missiles/2 turrets, missile rof and speed bonus Still faster than the other races. :) But yeah, perhaps give it some more speed, I dont know. :) Too much versatility is just crap. Compare Cyclone and Hurricane. What ship do you want to fly? Exacly, the one without the stinking shield boosting bonus and damage instead. I dunno, Jim, with the new heavy assault missiles I think the 3 missile hardpoints on the Cycloen are going to see a lot more use. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Jim McGregor Too much versatility is just crap. Compare Cyclone and Hurricane. What ship do you want to fly? Exacly, the one without the stinking shield boosting bonus and damage instead. i don't consider that versatility... i think that in eve there is a bit misconception about it... many people think that versatility is just to be able to fit different things (eg phoon 4 missile/4 turret) but that is not real versatility. versatility is about to do different jobs in an efficent way for example let's take as an example the "old" CNR... this, for slot/fitting standards is a very specialized missileboat... but the way it can be fitted and the result on the field shows that instead it is a very versatile boat. offensive wise it is a ship capable to hit at full damage at any range, to fully chose its damage type and to be able to hit fast and small ships for decent damage. defensive again it have many options, its weapon have no requirement of mods like tracking comp or even webbers... it can chose to fit a low cap usage passive tank or a very effective active tank... it can even go with an armor tank + ecm setup. as you see, even if the slots are quite "specialized" the final result offer huge versatility both for offensive and defensive solution. there are also ships with specialized slot allocation that don't translate in versatility, and some with "strange" ones that are very versatile... but again to determine the versatility we should look at the "result on the field" and not by the slot allocation.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:04:00 - [83] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well I got T2 Sieges, T2 Heavy drones, dimininshing nossies and a faction tank. Doesn't get much better than that, and I find the Mach to be better than the phoon, even though the Mach only uses T1 guns (albeit Officer ones). But maybe that is just personal preference. You have to be kidding me right? Siege on a mission running ship? No wonder you don't find it appropriate you don't have the right kit. 3 x hakim's 1200 4 x cruise IIs 1 small tractor beam domination 100mn ab 3 x chelm's cap rechargers 1 chelm's large armor rep 2 x centus x-type harders of primary rat damage 1 x centus x-type harder of secondary rat damage 1 corelum energized adpative nano 1 BCU II 1 PDU II Assortment of your favorite drones to fit the occasion will walk all over any lvl 4 mission in the game. It will require a lot of skill points and a lot of isk. But as a machariel pilot you'd already be tipping 2 billion for a respectable setup that would justify your ship not off looks alone. Anyways... we don't need to take the mission running setups any further. You can buy your way into a fat bird that fits any type of game play you want. Maelstrom's shouldn't be balanced with lvl 4's in mind... nothing beats a gist-x/crystal raven anyways. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:05:00 - [84] Originally by: Vera Nosfyu I dunno, Jim, with the new heavy assault missiles I think the 3 missile hardpoints on the Cycloen are going to see a lot more use. Thats a good point, yeah. Putting that on my "have to play with" list for the test server, when I get in... sometime next year, it seems. :p --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:10:00 - [85] Originally by: Ath Amon "about versatility" Well, then every ship with 5-6 medium slots and 5-6 low slots are versatile. And yeah, I think you are right. Ships like Raven and Dominix are versatile simply because of their slot layout. The Maelstrom will be pretty versatile too. In the end, its pretty good to have some versatility I guess. I wouldnt want to fly one of those Amarr ships... (just kidding to upset some Amarr people).. . --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:35:00 - [86] Originally by: Kaylana Syi You have to be kidding me right? Siege on a mission running ship? No wonder you don't find it appropriate you don't have the right kit. Alright, that statement alone tells me everything about your alleged clue about missions. But you are right, no point in delving any further into the matter. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
SmokeMeAKipper System-Lords E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:46:00 - [87] I like the 10% hp bonus idea. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast - - - - - - - - - - - -
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:46:00 - [88] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/10/2006 13:40:09 I think think they should put some focus into the 3 minmatar battleships. Tempest - armor tanked, long range artillery ship. 140 m/s. Typhoon - armor tanked, close range low-tier autocannon/missiles ship. 150 m/s. Maelstrom - shield tanked, speedy, high-tier autocannon ship (bigger Cyclone) 160 m/s But nobody listens to me. The Maelstrom even LOOKS speedy, but... its not. Jim wins thread. This would be a very good way to have the Matari ships used, and makes perfect sense. I like the sheild boost bonus for the Mael if it becomes and AC platform. Although i would prefere a damage bonus to an ROF bonus. The amount of ammo consumed by those guns is going to be a bit much with ACs. Why force the Mael into a fleet role that the tempest already performs. Just add 1 more turret spot for tempest and I think it would be a great fleet ship. Now will the OP shut up, or ask a mod to delete all here posts, or do it herself. Trying to read through and find a decent idea is incredibly hard do mostly to here posts.
Imhotep Khem Vortex.	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:30:00 - [89] Originally by: Ithildin PvE balancing isn't done for two reasons: 1. It affects only one party (hunter). 2. The other party is a computer, rather stupid, and is thus easy to outsmart This is why using PvE as an argument is no argument in a game where PvP is predominant... Rediculous. ECM is the way it is specifically because of PvE. As for 10% HP bonus, that would be nice, but we made the same argument for the Cyclone, and it didnt work their either. CCP wants to suddenly make Minmatar some shield tanking missile shooting race, nothing we can do to stop them. I don't expect they will change at all from shield boost bonus. Nor will they change from minmatar having hardly any cap to boost shields with...C'est la vie. Damage bonus would give some nicer wrecks. ROF bonus would give more frequent wrecks. Plus 5% ROF is better than 5% damage so I take the ROF. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:02:00 - [90] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Kaylana Syi You have to be kidding me right? Siege on a mission running ship? No wonder you don't find it appropriate you don't have the right kit. Alright, that statement alone tells me everything about your alleged clue about missions. But you are right, no point in delving any further into the matter. LOL... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:06:00 - [91] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Originally by: Ithildin PvE balancing isn't done for two reasons: 1. It affects only one party (hunter). 2. The other party is a computer, rather stupid, and is thus easy to outsmart This is why using PvE as an argument is no argument in a game where PvP is predominant... Rediculous. ECM is the way it is specifically because of PvE. As for 10% HP bonus, that would be nice, but we made the same argument for the Cyclone, and it didnt work their either. CCP wants to suddenly make Minmatar some shield tanking missile shooting race, nothing we can do to stop them. I don't expect they will change at all from shield boost bonus. The cyclone was a gimp to begin with. The saving grace of it was the 5th midslot when it became a good beginner's ship into mission running. The Maelstrom is a totally different bird. Tux would be going against his better judgement and slapping minmatar in the face with yet again another battleship with a gimp bonus. Remember the Typhoon? Will the ship be good... sure... will it be good because of its bonuses... not likely. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:03:00 - [92] i take the 37,5% bonus if maelstrom gets an extra slot over all the other battleships like the cyclone got 1 over all the other tier1 bc to be somewhat competitive Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.26 01:25:00 - [93] Originally by: Tiuwaz i take the 37,5% bonus if maelstrom gets an extra slot over all the other battleships like the cyclone got 1 over all the other tier1 bc to be somewhat competitive Yeah a 7th medslot would be pretty neat :) But the whole EVE-Universe would drown in Caldari tears... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:08:00 - [94] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Tiuwaz i take the 37,5% bonus if maelstrom gets an extra slot over all the other battleships like the cyclone got 1 over all the other tier1 bc to be somewhat competitive Yeah a 7th medslot would be pretty neat :) But the whole EVE-Universe would drown in Caldari tears... The down side there being? J.A.F.O.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:14:00 - [95] target painting bonus! like, huge massive target painting bonus. Light up ceptors like a dreadnaut. KILL MEMES
Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:15:00 - [96] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Tiuwaz i take the 37,5% bonus if maelstrom gets an extra slot over all the other battleships like the cyclone got 1 over all the other tier1 bc to be somewhat competitive Yeah a 7th medslot would be pretty neat :) But the whole EVE-Universe would drown in Caldari tears... and thats a bad thing becuase? http://www.stevie.prince.dsl.pipex.com/AloysiusKnight.jpg http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2107/nodecrashsiggb9.jpg Chose one, you must. Two is the way of pure ebilness, and pure ebilness is bad -ReverendM
Logan Xerxes Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:19:00 - [97] Originally by: Aloysius Knight Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Tiuwaz i take the 37,5% bonus if maelstrom gets an extra slot over all the other battleships like the cyclone got 1 over all the other tier1 bc to be somewhat competitive Yeah a 7th medslot would be pretty neat :) But the whole EVE-Universe would drown in Caldari tears... and thats a bad thing becuase? Here's a Caldari who would not be crying. Minnies getting 7 mids would not reduce our own ship's effectiveness except comparatively (reducing the gap between the two). Boost don't nerf! "Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." -Sun Tzu

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