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Warp Core Stabs (WCS) FINALLY eat it.

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Cyrus Phoenix	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:59:00 - [92] I remember once there was a Megathron pilot who had just killed one of my corpmates. I came upon him with my tempest, waited for him to initiate agression, and then I jammed and scrambled him, and proceeded to kill him at point blank range. I must have had 2 points on the guy, but he warped out. I asked him in local "How many stabs" and he said "Enough to get away with killing your corp mates". Anyone who has been in this situation knows that this nerf is the right thing to do. Looking at this from a neutral perspective I would say that as he got a kill and got away alive he had abetter fitting than you did. If the guy is a pirate in any realistic sense of the word or simply an enemy intent on raiding your assets then he achieved his mission you failed because he had the correct fitting for the task at hand, you did not.
Scoundrelus Unseen Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:00:00 - [93] Originally by: Hardin This is a great change. TBH those carebears whining about WCS should realise that 'pirates & griefers' are often the greatest users of WCS. This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy. And yet it is these same people I see whining about the stab nerf, not 'pirates & griefers'. =============================================== We are Watching You.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:05:00 - [94] think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs.
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:09:00 - [95] I have one ship that uses WCS and only because I can't remove them (prowler) A few low sec survival tips that have served me well - note some also work in 0.0: Preperation When first going to a new low sec location ALWAYS make at least 3 safe spots, do this in a shuttle or other fast/disposable ship. If Ratting or Mining make off line warp in points to the belts - I.E. warp to one of your safe spots and then warp to the belt at 100 and book mark that as your warp into that belt. That way when the pirate warps to belt voila you are way away from him and can get out before he can scram you. * Always watch local, check everybody in local before you begin ratting or missioning make sure their pictures show up after checking and they are OK. * When a new person comes in always check right away, again if OK make sure picture shows up. * If not OK warp to one of the safe spots which if in a big ship you should already be aligned to. There are more but can't give you all of them "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:11:00 - [96] Edited by: Araxmas on 25/10/2006 15:11:23 aw link doesn't work for me edit: ah wait there she goes. --------
Elianidd Farseeker	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:12:00 - [97] Originally by: Novan Leon Doesn't this hurt PvE-ers in lowsec the most out of everyone? (ie. because they still perform a combat role, just not a PvP role) Yes. But nobody else seems to care about that aspect of this change.
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:13:00 - [98] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler I remember once there was a Megathron pilot who had just killed one of my corpmates. I came upon him with my tempest, waited for him to initiate agression, and then I jammed and scrambled him, and proceeded to kill him at point blank range. I must have had 2 points on the guy, but he warped out. I asked him in local "How many stabs" and he said "Enough to get away with killing your corp mates". Anyone who has been in this situation knows that this nerf is the right thing to do. Looking at this from a neutral perspective I would say that as he got a kill and got away alive he had abetter fitting than you did. If the guy is a pirate in any realistic sense of the word or simply an enemy intent on raiding your assets then he achieved his mission you failed because he had the correct fitting for the task at hand, you did not. If I fit warp scramblers in all my mid slots I would not be able to defeat him and he would have won. So the WCS setup on his ship left me with two choices, either let him get away or let him kill me. Sorry, this is another case of someone getting their cake and eating it. The fact that I had gallente jammers on my Tempest is a sign of only one thing, I had the perfect setup and skills for killing him. The only way to keep him there would have been to give up that setup and die. ----
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 - [99] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker "However in nerfing the combat ability of stabbed ships CCP have nerfed the ships of lowsec misson runners and ratters. We do fit stabs with and legitimate reason - we are not fitted for PVP and want to avoid a fight with another player. Now if I take the most elementary precaution against pirates and fit a stab or two I totally nerf my PVE setup." What he said. As always, PvEers suffer for the sake of PvP game abuse. Couldn't they have found a different/better way to "nerf" the WCS sniper abuse without totally screwing low-sec PvEers? It'll be ironic how many MORE cries we'll be having for more people in low-sec after this, since this change will "scare" people out of low-sec even more than currently. To me, this sounds like a "knee-jerk" type reaction rather than something truly thought-out. You don't need stabs to rat safely in lowsec. 1) Warp in at 40km instead of 15 (actually warp in at 100.. the rats WILL come to you. 2) after warping in go UP (or down) away from the ecliptic... the rats WILL follow you. 3) Fight while running away from the ecliptic. Any Player pirates that warp into the belt will likely warp in at 15km (thus being 85km+ away). even if they warp in at the same distance you did by some miracle they will be several dozen KM away from you because you're not on the ecliptic you're up above it or below it (it's called being 'off grid'). So they will then have to fly to you and get within scramble range (giving you PLENTY of time to warp away). I never fit stabs when ratting in 0.0 or lowsec. I can see why some do. but they are absolutely not needed. And fitting them, even now, significantly reduces the damage you could be doing if you didn't have them fitted. Thus making it take longer, thus leaving you exposed longer, thus increasing the chance of a pirate finding you. And you absolutely do NOT need stabs in missions. Kill the scrambler ships first. If you can't kill the scrambler ship before you need to warp away then you have no business doing that level of mission yet.
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 - [100] hahahah, this doesn't affect me in the slightest. I have never ever ever fitted a WCS to any ship and I never will. Running is not the good option even when in a ship with little/no offenive capabilities, always fight until someone is gone. Yes, i'm the one who flies exhumers through your space without BMs ;p Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
Novan Leon Caldari Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:21:00 - [101] Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:22:00 - [102] Will be nie to see if the tables will turn with this nerf. I mean, the corporations and alliances that stab their ships..... What will they do now? -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:24:00 - [103] Originally by: Novan Leon Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change. Look I rat in 0.0 I rat in lowsec I have NEVER used WCS when ratting. I have NEVER been popped when ratting. Ever See my post above for how to do this. Always Always Always rig to win. You don't need WCS to Rat or run missions.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:25:00 - [104] Your rules from the past. RULE number one - warp out when anybody unknown pop up in local Otherwise Arazu will catch you. And Pilgrim. And often Falcon. And, sometimes, Rapier.
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:32:00 - [105] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs. Roflmao... Seriously. if your in a sniping ship 200km from a gate wtf are you going to use warpcores for? Warp disrupter range is 20km and youll not get it much further even with the gallente recon :P Actually this change boost snipers becasue the dimwits who fitted warpcores while sniping will now fit damage mods. Getting warped in on? covert ops making warpin point? No A sniper dont sit in the same position for that long.. Allso it just takes the click of a button for a sniper to warp out when he see something in overview. Need no warpcores as the enemy havent dropped out of warp yet. THinking snipers will go pop becaseu of this is let me put it as a less thought through concept. This will enhacne sniping because ppl will want to stay outside warp disruption range.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Irashi If you can't afford to lose the ship you're using, you shouldn't be flying it in pvp, that's the rule. I hate this quote. You remember that most of us are speaking of NON consensual PvP? So in most instances we can't chose the ship. If you are speaking of arena like PvP, I will come with my expendable jumpclone, and a expendable cruiser. If I am moving my 1 BS that is the high end limit of my resurces, I want to save it. I will not use control-q as it is metagaming, but I will use the in game options to the max.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:39:00 - [107] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs. Roflmao... Seriously. if your in a sniping ship 200km from a gate wtf are you going to use warpcores for? Warp disrupter range is 20km and youll not get it much further even with the gallente recon :P Actually this change boost snipers becasue the dimwits who fitted warpcores while sniping will now fit damage mods. Getting warped in on? covert ops making warpin point? No A sniper dont sit in the same position for that long.. Allso it just takes the click of a button for a sniper to warp out when he see something in overview. Need no warpcores as the enemy havent dropped out of warp yet. THinking snipers will go pop becaseu of this is let me put it as a less thought through concept. This will enhacne sniping because ppl will want to stay outside warp disruption range. Erm actually you're incorrect. Snipers sit stationary. Covops can fly up and get a scrammer on them while rest of fleet warps in. Covops can passive tank (with speed) long enough for fleet to arrive and get non-covops points on sniper then warp away safe. That or a breakup force can warp in from another quadrant and get scrams on them before they can warp away. Problem before was it wasn't worth the effort to coordinate this because the campers would just warp out with 7 points of WCS on them and you couldn't stop it. Now they won't have that so you can.
Novan Leon Caldari Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:42:00 - [108] Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Novan Leon Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change. Look I rat in 0.0 I rat in lowsec I have NEVER used WCS when ratting. I have NEVER been popped when ratting. Ever See my post above for how to do this. Always Always Always rig to win. You don't need WCS to Rat or run missions. We're not talking about what is possible, we're talking about what is balanced. "Rig to win" is exactly what my post was about; the rigs that are required to win given different objectives. Pre-aligning and letting rats come to you is NOT an option for a Blasterax config , where you're power and survivability are determined by your ability to quickly get in close and keep moving, for example. Your main alternative is to utilize local. frowns
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:42:00 - [109] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Irashi If you can't afford to lose the ship you're using, you shouldn't be flying it in pvp, that's the rule. I hate this quote. You remember that most of us are speaking of NON consensual PvP? So in most instances we can't chose the ship. If you are speaking of arena like PvP, I will come with my expendable jumpclone, and a expendable cruiser. If I am moving my 1 BS that is the high end limit of my resurces, I want to save it. I will not use control-q as it is metagaming, but I will use the in game options to the max. You can always chose your ship. Don't fly what you can't afford to loose. That is one of the most, if not THE most important rules of EVE. If you are moving a BS through low/no sec, fit stabs all you like, just don't expect to be able to fight off any attackers. Hence, perhaps making a few friends wouldn't be such a bad idea. Get them to escort you and your all set. /Ki
TheKiller8 Caldari S.A.S Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:43:00 - [110] BEST IDEA SINCE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE AUTO PILOT You know you are not allowed to link your website on the forums due to the bad language in use. Link removed. -wystler Discussing moderation is a no-no. Please email us instead to discuss at [email protected]. - Tirg
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:44:00 - [111] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Why do people think its so dangerous to rat in low sec? As long as you dont warp in to the belt at 15km and you use the slightest bit of caution you should rarely ever get caught.. It seems every video I see of pirates ganking ratters the ratter was sitting imobile at the 15km warp in blindly shooting away with no clue that evey pirate in the world is going to warp in at that same 15km.. Rats use MWD so warp in at some other random distance and let them come to you.. Cripes how hard is it to use some common sense? I am not trying to suggest that it is suicidal to lowsec mission run or rat, you are quite right there are ways to make it much less dangerous. However in nerfing the combat ability of stabbed ships CCP have nerfed the ships of lowsec misson runners and ratters. We do fit stabs with and legitimate reason - we are not fitted for PVP and want to avoid a fight with another player. Now if I take the most elementary precaution against pirates and fit a stab or two I totally nerf my PVE setup. I have no problem with PvP and am no coward but I can see no reason to lowsec mission in my Raven without either: A) gimping it by adding a stab or two - start to lock, make tea, lock. Not only does this make my mission harder but means whatever slim chance I had against a pirate who could scramble me has gone. B) offering it as a gift to any pirate who can catch me in the mission and has a single scrambler. I am not Tiller, I cannot plough through missions in record time, 6 month old players in regularly fitted ships can't. A lvl 4 can take us all evening, and your average player lasts around 6 months. At that rate I need to do dozens of level 4s to pay for the Raven and replace implants if I get podded. So say 20 evenings in lowsec without a WCS before I break even ? We are constantly told "risk vs reward" and "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Fine, nerf WCS and you increase my risk to the point where entering lowsec is pointless. Very True, I dont' care about WCS, since I usually don't fit one anyways for missions. My tank is fine for any lvl 4 missions. New characters however don't have that privilege, and are always risking getting killed. What they should keep doing lvl 3 missions to satisfy Mr. and Ms. GateCamp? There is nothing glorious to be jammed by a 2 to infinity person gate camp and die miserably without any chance to get out if you're in a bigger ship and PvE fitted. It's just pointless. I hope CCP can REAAALLLYY AFFORD to buy ANOTHER SHIP LOAD of IBM servers and fit them to power new clusters for mission running Motsu... Good luck CCP, it's just last weekend that I had a: "You are # 27th in queue" to login in Motsu, what's going to be after the nerf... ? "You are number 1117 in queue"???? I might just align my Eve gameplay with my favorite TV shows so I can watch an episode or two or go get dinner while certain things in-game work anymore.. I derive great pleasure of wasting my time... being entertained in Eve these days! Keep the flames going I like char broiled meet!
Elianidd Farseeker	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:47:00 - [112] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 25/10/2006 15:21:38 You don't need stabs to rat safely in lowsec or 0.0. 1) Warp in at 40km instead of 15 (actually warp in at 100.. the rats WILL come to you. 2) after warping in go UP (or down) away from the elyptic... the rats WILL follow you. 3) Fight while running away from the elyptic. Any Player pirates that warp into the belt will likely warp in at 15km (thus being 85km+ away). even if they warp in at the same distance you did by some miracle they will be several dozen KM away from you because you're not on the elyptic you're up above it or below it (it's called being 'off grid'). So they will then have to fly to you and get within scramble range (giving you PLENTY of time to warp away). I never fit stabs when ratting in 0.0 or lowsec. I can see why some do. but they are absolutely not needed. And fitting them, even now, significantly reduces the damage you could be doing if you didn't have them fitted. Thus making it take longer, thus leaving you exposed longer, thus increasing the chance of a pirate finding you. If flying off the elyptic is not your style then always fight aligned. Pick a stargate or planet or station and always be flying toward it during a fight. The loot will get a little stretched out but you can always warp back to your 'start point' and fly back outward to collect it after you're done. And you absolutely do NOT need stabs in missions. Kill the scrambler ships first. If you can't kill the scrambler ship before you need to warp away then you have no business doing that level of mission yet. I would agree that you don't NEED stabs. But then again you don't NEED microwarpdrives, or missiles, or armor, or any of the other thousand things they have in-game. It IS possible to play without any one of them. But each adds another potential element of safety. I LIKE to have WCS'es because it gives me that ADDED safety, and, as a smart person, I like to use EVERYTHING I can to be safe -- all of the things you mentioned AND WCS. Why should I now have to give them up because of some stupid abuse by some lame PvPers?
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:52:00 - [113] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker I would agree that you don't NEED stabs. But then again you don't NEED microwarpdrives, or missiles, or armor, or any of the other thousand things they have in-game. It IS possible to play without any one of them. But each adds another potential element of safety. I LIKE to have WCS'es because it gives me that ADDED safety, and, as a smart person, I like to use EVERYTHING I can to be safe -- all of the things you mentioned AND WCS. Why should I now have to give them up because of some stupid abuse by some lame PvPers? 1: It's not abuse, it's playing the game. 2: You can still use WCS, you just can't expect to win a fight with them fitted. 3: Try to play the game without stabs if you don't like them. Works fine for me. I don't fit stabs, and I don't die very often. I'm less than 6 months old, and I like to PvP, and PvE only to afford to buy new ships. It's not dangerous to PvP. It's not lame, and it's actually a core feature of the game. Try it on for size. /Ki
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 - [114] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker I would agree that you don't NEED stabs. But then again you don't NEED microwarpdrives, or missiles, or armor, or any of the other thousand things they have in-game. It IS possible to play without any one of them. But each adds another potential element of safety. I LIKE to have WCS'es because it gives me that ADDED safety, and, as a smart person, I like to use EVERYTHING I can to be safe -- all of the things you mentioned AND WCS. Why should I now have to give them up because of some stupid abuse by some lame PvPers? And you still have stabs. No one is taking them away. It is just harder to combat with stabs now. MWD's have penalty, sig+cap penalty. Now stabs have penalty in somewhat similar ways as MWD. That's all. Feel free to continue fitting them.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:54:00 - [115] Originally by: TheKiller8 BEST IDEA SINCE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE AUTO PILOT Right, and the autopilot makes for sssuuuuuccchhh a greeeaaattt gameplay experience! I guess if you're bored from autopilot now you can go rat in low sec, to get a doze of adrenaline boost, lol.. i can see the ebil plan of CCP now..
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:56:00 - [116] Actually I rather enjoy the autopilot feature. 10jumps in highsec hauling NPC goods is a great way to make money when you don't have alot of time to devote to gaming. Those that want a more interactive experience can do other stuff like mining/ratting/missioning. I <3 autopilot!
mannyman Ghosts Of Stealth Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:00:00 - [117] If that idea with WCS is implemented, then -V- and LV will suffer highly at their stations while I'm camping... Watch out
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:18:00 - [118] Finally they implement this change! Now WCS will only be used for transporting ships from one place to the other, and people will be forced to actually learn to play this game instead of whining and whining over the forums! Actually i believe the penalty for equipping WCS should have been even greater! _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:02:00 - [119] 5 pages of Quote: Whaaaaaa!!!!! and Quote: Yay \o/ I'll add to it. \ / I pirate in low sec I do lvl 3 and 4 missions in Amamake I rat in low sec and as of last night I rat in 0.0 too Never felt the need to use stabs on any of the above. only time I used them was on my Executioner while traveling. cause gatecamps in 0.0 are nasty When you mission run, just move away from the beacon and you are untouchable When you rat, just make a SS near the Sun and align to it while you rat. warp as soon as some one enters local. When you pirate, drink lots of alcohol and have fun This change make them in to the traveling fitting they are supposed to be
Novan Leon Caldari Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:45:00 - [120] I'm believe I'm for the WCS nerf, but this just makes it harder to remove Local from the equation. Oh well...

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