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Seth Allasatre
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:38:00 -
[121]
How did we get to page 5 and no one made the following suggestion?
Fit a good active sensor booster to offset the penalty of the WCS. So, in essence, it will now cost a low AND a mid slot (and a little bit of cap) to use stabs.
For the pilot who fits a single stab just to get away when the heat is too high, it'll be a minor inconvenience. One sensor booster per WCS won't make sense for those who fit a half rack, but that's a good thing.
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Vanlade
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:50:00 -
[122]
Most Excellent change :D
- Vanlade
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Vanlade
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:57:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Sean Dillon Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead.
If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die.
They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage.
I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that.
If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now.
You have been running missions for 3 years, and you _still_ need wcs?
EvE will be better off without you. Please end your subscription right away and self-destruct in jita.
- Vanlade
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Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:02:00 -
[124]
I'm happy to see the WCS nerf. It's about damn time.
Now, about bookmarks and logging out...
My only concern is how it's going to affect PVE missioning.
My raven doesn't survive lvl4's without a warp out now and then. Especially when I forget to change the hardeners. This is probably going to make it harder for me to lvl4's. But thats ok, because missions suck. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
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DefJam101
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:06:00 -
[125]
lol you guys flying Ravens. At least caldari users could always fit WCS and fight at the same time, I cannot believe you actual have the nerve to whine about the nerf after how easy you guys had it before. ...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll. *** Your signature is too large. The limit is 24000 bytes. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/5980/resizefinalbs2.jpg |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:10:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Seth Allasatre How did we get to page 5 and no one made the following suggestion?
Fit a good active sensor booster to offset the penalty of the WCS. So, in essence, it will now cost a low AND a mid slot (and a little bit of cap) to use stabs.
For the pilot who fits a single stab just to get away when the heat is too high, it'll be a minor inconvenience. One sensor booster per WCS won't make sense for those who fit a half rack, but that's a good thing.
Actually if you read through the thread several people have pointed this out :)
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:12:00 -
[127]
/me parks his vagabond... this is a nerf to low sec people. I admit I use stabs on my vagabond, but nothing else.
You're not going to get anyone in to low sec doing this. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that *beats player with big stick* now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus |
Taram Caldar
Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:12:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake I'm happy to see the WCS nerf. It's about damn time.
Now, about bookmarks and logging out...
My only concern is how it's going to affect PVE missioning.
My raven doesn't survive lvl4's without a warp out now and then. Especially when I forget to change the hardeners. This is probably going to make it harder for me to lvl4's. But thats ok, because missions suck.
Same advice I give corp mates who get scrammed now: Don't equip stabs... simply.... ... ... ... Blow up the Scrambler ships first.
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Elianidd Farseeker
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:13:00 -
[129]
Originally by: sesanti Now WCS will only be used for transporting ships from one place to the other, and people will be forced to actually learn to play this game instead of whining and whining over the forums!
Funny how quickly people are to make disparaging remarks about others just because a given change doesn't adversely affect THEIR playstyle. I wonder how many of these same people would be "whining" if CCP made a major nerf to something like jumpclones? (Which probably don't really play a major role in PvE.) Maybe something like taking a 25% hit to all skills used while in a clone because it's just a "cheap copy" of your real self? THEN who'd be whining?
Just because YOU don't use a particular type of module or playstyle doesn't mean that doing so is not "actually learning to play".
Lern2think-of-more-than-just-yourself.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:26:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 25/10/2006 19:26:37
Originally by: Ki An
You can always chose your ship. Don't fly what you can't afford to loose. That is one of the most, if not THE most important rules of EVE. If you are moving a BS through low/no sec, fit stabs all you like, just don't expect to be able to fight off any attackers. Hence, perhaps making a few friends wouldn't be such a bad idea. Get them to escort you and your all set.
/Ki
Unless you have the ista change ship module you can't always chose the ship. You must use the ship appropriate for your mission and not too far away from the target area, whatever you are doing. I wouldn't use an hauler for mining or a barge for moving items. Afford to loose is not the same thing as find confortable to loose. Losing a BS, with insurance and all, I can buy one immediatly, even if probably with less good fittings. What I hate in this nerf is that the choice is between "forget to figth even a cruiser with a BS but be capable to run away from some warp scramblers" or "be capable to fight but incapable tu avoid gatecampers". And to reiterate it: in level 4 missions there are enemyes capable to scramble you. Nerfing the warp stabber as it was implemented mean increasing the ship loss in those mission by a large margin.
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Evelgrivion
Cohort. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:35:00 -
[131]
If you want the single number one reason I am happy with this change: Stababond.
»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/
Its Cohort. with a C. |
Irashi
Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:36:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker
Just because YOU don't use a particular type of module or playstyle doesn't mean that doing so is not "actually learning to play".
By playstyle you mean using an overpriced uninsurable ship that you can't afford to lose to go around ganking soft vunerable targets that can't fight back, then running away before anything with a proper PvP setup finds you and puts you in actual danger? My heart bleeds :P
Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win |
Ki An
Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:40:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Unless you have the ista change ship module you can't always chose the ship. You must use the ship appropriate for your mission and not too far away from the target area, whatever you are doing. I wouldn't use an hauler for mining or a barge for moving items. Afford to loose is not the same thing as find confortable to loose. Losing a BS, with insurance and all, I can buy one immediatly, even if probably with less good fittings. What I hate in this nerf is that the choice is between "forget to figth even a cruiser with a BS but be capable to run away from some warp scramblers" or "be capable to fight but incapable tu avoid gatecampers". And to reiterate it: in level 4 missions there are enemyes capable to scramble you. Nerfing the warp stabber as it was implemented mean increasing the ship loss in those mission by a large margin.
What I meant was that when you undock in a ship, you put it at risk. Hence, you are choosing your ship as you undock. If you "don't feel comfortable" loosing a ship, you're better of not flying it at all. This might sound silly, but it is the way it is.
This nerf is good exactly for the reasons you listed. Now you have to choose wether you want to fight or run already before undocking. It's as is should be. Too many times people agress only to half way through the fight whimp out and decide to make a run for it. Often they could get away due to excessive stab-use. Now, if you're out to fight, you'de better come well prepared, and be prepared to stick it out, win or loose. Makes it more interesting if you ask me.
Transporting, mining and trading is not affected at all. You can put ECM on your hauler if you have to, but you'd do well to add a sensor booster as well then. No biggie.
Mission running finally gets some risk involved, and people can't run lvl 4's solo in a raven with the lows filled with stabs anymore. More reason to gang up and hunt in groups -> Multiplayer game. Scrambling NPC's are nothing to worry about. Just pop them first and you'll be fine.
PvP gets infinitely better with this nerf as there'll be no more chickening out of a fight half way through, and snipers can be caught by a group of less than 5 people.
In short, there's nothing bad about this nerf at all. All hail teh nerf!
/Ki
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Elianidd Farseeker
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:12:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Irashi By playstyle you mean using an overpriced uninsurable ship that you can't afford to lose to go around ganking soft vunerable targets that can't fight back, then running away before anything with a proper PvP setup finds you and puts you in actual danger? My heart bleeds :P
Nope. Actually I'm one of those "soft vulnerable targets" trying my best to be safe in as many ways as possible. I just think that there must be a better/different way for them to prevent what you've described without totally destroying the useability of WCS'es for us "soft vulnerable targets" (in PvE or avoiding PvP gankers.)
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Trance Gemmini
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:57:00 -
[135]
This is a stupid and unnecessary nerf. If they plan to do this in Kali then they should move all Warp Scramblers into HIGH SLOTS where they belong.
Now the only highsec dwellers that will be leaving highsec are those becoming pirates or travelling to 0.0 space. I suspect this will hurt Eve's subscription base.
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Coran Ordus
Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:24:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker
Originally by: Irashi By playstyle you mean using an overpriced uninsurable ship that you can't afford to lose to go around ganking soft vunerable targets that can't fight back, then running away before anything with a proper PvP setup finds you and puts you in actual danger? My heart bleeds :P
Nope. Actually I'm one of those "soft vulnerable targets" trying my best to be safe in as many ways as possible. I just think that there must be a better/different way for them to prevent what you've described without totally destroying the useability of WCS'es for us "soft vulnerable targets" (in PvE or avoiding PvP gankers.)
It's great that you try to remain safe, but stabs are not required. You can survive quite well by using the other tools available to you. And sometimes, you will die. It's not that big a damn deal. If you couldn't, this would be the most boring game ever.
You can still use them, they just now have penalties. WCS give you _too much_ saftey. To an unbalancing degree. And they are too useful for gate snipers. You now have to trade some effectiveness for saftey. An interesting decision to be made has been added. This is a Good Thing. |
Sara Finn
Amarr Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:32:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Sara Finn on 25/10/2006 21:34:15 The sensor booster 'solution' is a good one, but it is flawed for 2 reasons:
1. Sensor Boosters give diminishing returns for multiple mods. 2. Not every ship (i.e., T1 Barges) can mount a Sensor Booster due to already limited mid slots.
For this to be an exact solution, the WCS penalty must also have a dimishing return effect for each additional module that is used. And I think that wouldn't defeat the 'nerf' either as the initial penalty is already pretty severe. And yes, I'm ignoring Tech2 modules.
In addition, for these proposed changes to have little effect on miners, I'd also like to see these other changes implemented, which I don't think gives any real advantages to miners in the overall scheme of things:
-- 0/+1/0 additional high/mid/low module slots to all mining barges (for sensor booster(s)). -- a 50% increase to the base targetting range of all mining barges (just to keep up with the WCS nerf). -- an increase to the signature radius of all asteroids (assuming that 'roids have sig radii, to keep up with the WCS nerf). -- a small increase to CPU and powergrid to all mining barges (to make the additional slot feasible).
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:15:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Sara Finn
2. Not every ship (i.e., T1 Barges) can mount a Sensor Booster due to already limited mid slots.
Say what? All the t1 barges have one medslot. Put a Sensor Booster II there. Problem solved. Sure, that means you can't put anything else there, but that's the price you pay if you want safety.
I'm too lazy to open up QuickFit, but it seems to me that 2 x wcs + sensor booster II should give you totally reasonable target ranges for mining. Sure, it's a bit slower to target, but that's a minor issue.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:20:00 -
[139]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again;
The best news of 2006.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:28:00 -
[140]
I think the most reasonable fix for barges is to give them a boost to max targeting range.. And if people think that barges should have a wcs penalty too then boost only enough to give a 10km lock with 2 wcs fitted.. The 5km lock with 2 fitted is far to big a hit I think as even aligned a covetor still takes ages to warp away..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
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Irashi
Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:52:00 -
[141]
Doesn't anyone just, y'know, monitor local? Why are you even near a belt when there's a hostile in the system? I really don't get why people want to wait until they're scrammed and half dead before they'll decide that maybe it's a good idea to move.
Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win |
Laocoon
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:54:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Fuujin
Originally by: Kuolematon Yay for pirates! You deserve it. Now there will be even less people on lowsec and even less people will PvP! Cheers! Yay! Yatta!
Your sig speaks volumes.
lol qft
- Lao
Veto. Corp |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:59:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/10/2006 23:00:05
Originally by: Irashi Doesn't anyone just, y'know, monitor local? Why are you even near a belt when there's a hostile in the system? I really don't get why people want to wait until they're scrammed and half dead before they'll decide that maybe it's a good idea to move.
Mining effeciancy for me.. If I warp to a SS every time someone pops up in local I'd never finish a cycle on my strips.. And if you plan you mining spot with care you can warp away everytime as long as you are aligned and ready to go.. I only mount WCS because sometimes an inty will get lucky and get to me before I can warp off.. Risk vs Reward..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Stratharn
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:05:00 -
[144]
I generally run with WCS simply because I detest 0.4 gatecamps, and can't be bothered. That WCS has been nerfed is a nuisance, since it's easy enough to fit a scrambler.
I think it's *too* easy to stop a ship just at the moment.
Maybe if they worked like jammers, and gave a chance of stopping a ship, rather than just... did?
Rob http://www.chainblade.com/
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sesanti
Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:11:00 -
[145]
Edited by: sesanti on 25/10/2006 23:14:26
Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker
Originally by: sesanti Now WCS will only be used for transporting ships from one place to the other, and people will be forced to actually learn to play this game instead of whining and whining over the forums!
Funny how quickly people are to make disparaging remarks about others just because a given change doesn't adversely affect THEIR playstyle. I wonder how many of these same people would be "whining" if CCP made a major nerf to something like jumpclones? (Which probably don't really play a major role in PvE.) Maybe something like taking a 25% hit to all skills used while in a clone because it's just a "cheap copy" of your real self? THEN who'd be whining?
Just because YOU don't use a particular type of module or playstyle doesn't mean that doing so is not "actually learning to play".
Lern2think-of-more-than-just-yourself.
No, but i won't be crying all over the forums because they change a feature i particularly... The DEVs move the game towards their vision, which is a non-consentual PVP universe. People have to *LEARN* that. So
CRY ME A RIVER
_______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... don't mind the portrait> |
Grant Smith
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:23:00 -
[146]
The best news i've heard in a good while! Whetherit helps people populate 0.0 or not.... those who i do find probably won't escape!
I can't wait for those pvp pansies to have to recontemplate their setups
<3
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Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:24:00 -
[147]
fit some ECM bursts u will be fine
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Dagda Dia
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:28:00 -
[148]
pirate whinners win again
so sad
Move along nothing to see here, yes I am a ALT Just portecting my main.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:29:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Dagda Dia
pirate whinners win again
so sad
pirates wil lget boosters and rigs and stuff to rebalance their setups there are also a lot of bossts for pirates that peeps arent mentioning yet but .... it means an end to sir snipe a lot (ginger megs anyone) at 200km those pirates will need to take a risk and come in at about 100km to engage (risk versus reward factor just balanced out)
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Kurren
Farscape Mining
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:31:00 -
[150]
I see it as a global solution to fix one problem. It's a bit overkill, but... it will certainly help with sniper hunting. --- --- --- ---
My Sig Is Not Too Big...
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