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Warp Core Stabs (WCS) FINALLY eat it.

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Siigari Kitawa Gallente HelpCorp United Eden's Fire	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:04:00 - [1] http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0610/misc_6.jpg ^^^^ Clicky ^^^^ I said it in the Development forum, and I'll say it again here: Notify: TomB's Nerfbat strikes Warpcore Stabilizer I perfectly, nerfing it for extreme amounts of awesomeness.
Ta chaina	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:10:00 - [2] Yup your right all the crying you and all the others did worked. So grats to you and the rest of the winers. Hey here is a thought start crying for a I win button next and see how long it takes to get one
Tonkin Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:13:00 - [3] well yes that is one good nerf, would of been better if it slowed there warp speed but hehehe, im happy with it............... for now Sig removed, you sig was too ubber to display and ccp had no choice but to nerf it - CCP(NERFBAT)
chromer one FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:15:00 - [4] hehe RA and others will finally loose their frigates... and wcs are put to ships they belong.. haulers and wimp ships
Beringe Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Notify: TomB's Nerfbat strikes Warpcore Stabilizer I perfectly, nerfing it for extreme amounts of awesomeness. It's Tuxford's nerfbat now. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:34:00 - [6] Yay for pirates! You deserve it. Now there will be even less people on lowsec and even less people will PvP! Cheers! Yay! Yatta! Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö" To be Kali, or not to be Lagi
Darcie Wray	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:40:00 - [7] The inertial stabalizes seem pretty pointless. Good increase of velocity but they make your sig radius better. For high sec travel its better to use an overdrive injector (for speed) or nanofiber (for speed and agility) For high sec hauling its better to use a nanofiber (for speed and agility) For high sec combat its better to use nanofibers since higher sig radius = missiles damaging you more and turrets hitting you easier. For low sec travel and hauling situationas you have 2 methods to escape enemies. Either get your agility high enough that you warp before they target you, or get your warp core strangth high enough that evne if they target you and try to scramble, you break free. If you use the high agility method using the nertial stabs, it will increase your sig radius making people TARGET YOU FASTER (thus destroying the point) and DO MORE DAMAGE. Overall I love the changes on the warp core stabs. Now people either have to fight or run, but not both. The only way the inertial stabs make sense for is high security hauling and traveling using a full set of instant bookmarks, since in that situation ship agility is the only thing that matters and speed does not....but arent we trying to get away from tempting everyone to put 5000 BMs in their people and places?
Fuujin HDY Research Labs	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Kuolematon Yay for pirates! You deserve it. Now there will be even less people on lowsec and even less people will PvP! Cheers! Yay! Yatta! Your sig speaks volumes. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:50:00 - [9] This change is too much. Stabs are good. I don't use them that often, but I have no problem working hard to get guys filled with stabs. Now it will just be gate camps ftw. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:51:00 - [10] Well, the next one that say carebearer never stay to fight can start to cry for a change in warp core stabilizers again. With those mounted for traveling it is impossible to fight even a 1 man camp.
Mallikanth Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:52:00 - [11] er.... I don't know how to take this TBH Are those images from the test server or fakes? If they're realy whats coming I don't see how this will help people populate 0.0 which I believe is CCP's intention - to get people out of Empire!? The folks who are already scared or had their fingers burnt already are now even LESS likely to move out. <queue the "grow some" rants> The difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong, it usually turns out to be impossible
spurious signal Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:54:00 - [12] This is a good solution for 0.0 and pvp corps. But this is a huge nerf for low-sec mission running. I think the low-sec pirates gloating about this will be hugely disappointed when all their targets simply disappear and move to high-sec. This will effectively extend the borders of 0.0 right up to the edge of 0.5 - prepare to see high-sec mission systems become massively overcrowded (Motsu anyone?) and low-sec systems become as barren as 99% of 0.0 is.
Budz Fergie Caldari Caldari Deep Space Ventures Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.25 05:57:00 - [13] Hahahaha!!!! I foresee a lot of vagabonds being parked or dying very quickly now.
Kanuo Ashkeron Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:01:00 - [14] I love it. I also think that Tuxford said the Sig Radius bonus decreases Signature radius. At the low-sec mission runners: You have to wait until you can see how the new missions and all those exploration stuff is done. Maybe it pays off to do missions in a team so you can also include a few ships which can fight pirates. Kanuo
Victor Valka Caldari Terra Incognita	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:04:00 - [15] Originally by: spurious signal This will effectively extend the borders of 0.0 right up to the edge of 0.5 - prepare to see high-sec mission systems become massively overcrowded (Motsu anyone?) and low-sec systems become as barren as 99% of 0.0 is. I don't think that there is a huge low-security mission running crowd to begin with. People who were running missions in low-sec will simply continue to do so. Ginger's out of business, tho. Poor SOB.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:06:00 - [16] Hopefully with the upcoming low-sec buff it won't be much of a problem. And hopefully soon a total high-sec nerf. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:24:00 - [17] So unless there's a stacking penalty, an industrial with, say, 4 lows would have it's sig radius reduced to 6.25% of normal?
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:43:00 - [18] ginger megs will be unhappy
Victor Valka Caldari Terra Incognita	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:57:00 - [19] Originally by: SonOfAGhost So unless there's a stacking penalty, an industrial with, say, 4 lows would have it's sig radius reduced to 6.25% of normal? Uh. It's a bonus. As in, it makes the sig radius bigger. Which is bad, BTW.
Quin Tal Fort Knox Inc Expeto Libertas Foedus	Posted - 2006.10.25 06:59:00 - [20] Another case of Adapt or DieÖ
defiler Caldari Mad Hermit	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: SonOfAGhost So unless there's a stacking penalty, an industrial with, say, 4 lows would have it's sig radius reduced to 6.25% of normal? Uh. It's a bonus. As in, it makes the sig radius bigger. Which is bad, BTW. And even if it did decrease it, it wouldn't be to 6.25%. (1-0.11)^4 ~= 62.74% Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004.
Nastarovia	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:17:00 - [22] Who cares? My megathron has an optimal of 7km :D
Arkemn Trefore Minmatar New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:19:00 - [23] The big one stabs have bitten they have. May the warp strength be on our side Hey look a butterfly opps i mean a goon waiti mean 5 goons ohno it's a goon swarm good thing i have this fly swatter.
spurious signal Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Victor Valka I don't think that there is a huge low-security mission running crowd to begin with. People who were running missions in low-sec will simply continue to do so. I have to disagree here. Currently certain sections of low-sec are an awesome place, with a wealthy and busy mission running crowd constantly playing cat-and-mouse with pirates who specialise in probing mission runners out mid-mission. The mission runners (the clever ones anyway) survive with the aid of good tactics, paranoia and WCS. The pirates survive (and get wealthy) off of the backs of those Gist-equipped Raven pilots who haven't yet learned the risks properly and the fact that there's very few anti-pirates out there. Already in some systems the pirates heavily outnumber the carebears and competition for targets is difficult. If a sizable proportion of the mission runners decide that the risks are too great without stabs and head back to high-sec then the pirates will be SOL. I'm neither pro-carebear nor pro-pirate here - I think the dynamic tension between the two groups makes low-sec a superb place to be with possibly the best gameplay EVE has to offer outside of 0.0 alliance combat/politics. It'd be a real shame if that balance got destroyed because of the stab-whiners :(
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Nastarovia Who cares? My megathron has an optimal of 7km :D You've got free low-slots on a megathron fitted with blasters?
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:38:00 - [26] As an earlier poster said this nerf is just another nail in the coffin of lowsec. Without the ability to fight npcs effectively if I fit wcs then I won't be bothering to visit again. Improving the rewards to be found in lowsec won't help much as I can do better in 0.0 and I can function there without stabs as I can normally see the pirates coming much more clearly due to the empty systems. Of course many highsec dwellers wont see it this way and will just be even more determined never to leave highsec now. So next we will see pirates whining for another highsec nerc to drive more players out into lowsec - again pointless as highsec dwellers won't be driven to take risks they are not happy taking and highsec dwellers are not risk takers by nature. WCS nerf is about the worst thing CCP could have done if they want people out of highsec and into lowsec and 0.0.
Trahern Twrgadarn	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:50:00 - [27] Woohoo, all we need now is a solution to station/gate hugging and we may have worthwhile pvp. Quote: Creana > u`r momma is so fat , that BOB mistaken her for a region and claimed her
Okkie2	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:51:00 - [28] About the low sec mission runners, isn't it possible to fit a few stabs to be able to get in and out of the system pretty safely while disabling them while running the mission ? Or does the penalty also work when the module is disabled ? This will also work to get in and out of enemy territory while still being able to fight decently when you are in the system you want to be.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 07:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Darcie Wray Edited by: Darcie Wray on 25/10/2006 07:10:31 The inertial stabalizers seem pretty pointless. Good increase of agility but they make your sig radius bigger. The important bit is what is not shown: they now also decrease your mass. Which is very important -- it improves your mwd speed and acceleration. I haven't tested them yet myself, but I heard that on the test server an inertia stab gives better acceleration and speed with mwd than an equivalent nanofiber. Of course, the intertia stab only gives benefit when you're mwding or using ab. So you get to choose: do you want higher base speed + somewhat higher mwd speed (with hull hp penalty), or do you want normal base speed but much better mwd speed (with signature radius penalty). Which is better depends totally on the ship and the tactics you want to use. That hull hp is also important, especially if you're using damage controls.
Sales Merchant	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:05:00 - [30] This is likely to hurt Ginger Magician more than anyone else in EVE tbh
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.25 08:12:00 - [31] Edited by: Luke Pubcrawler on 25/10/2006 08:17:56 Originally by: Okkie2 About the low sec mission runners, isn't it possible to fit a few stabs to be able to get in and out of the system pretty safely while disabling them while running the mission ? Or does the penalty also work when the module is disabled ? This will also work to get in and out of enemy territory while still being able to fight decently when you are in the system you want to be. Theoreticaly, but remember you need 75% cap charge to activate a module. So if I am ratting or missioning with the stab off and a pirate scans me or visits my belt then I have a problem. Even worse if I do switch it on but fail to escape then what little chance I had that my PvE fitted ship could fight his PvP one has been removed by the nerf. I don't plan to spend time in lowsec without stabs and with stabs I can't do what I want to do there. End result is I won't be going to lowsec anymore and I don't expect I am the only one who feels that way. I am sure the pirates ill be happy on their own in lowsec, they can always shoot at each other.
DOGNOSH Minmatar SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:03:00 - [32] Sorry guys,hardly ever use WCS and not at home at the moment but can someone explain the differences between the current and the new proposed WCS in kali ? mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus Xorus has been webbified - DOGNOSH
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:04:00 - [33] It's pretty much the perfect nerf. ---------- IBTL \o/
Hardin Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:11:00 - [34] This is a great change. TBH those carebears whining about WCS should realise that 'pirates & griefers' are often the greatest users of WCS. This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy. ------------------------------
spurious signal Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Hardin This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy. This is very true. I honestly think that the people who find this nerf the most difficult are going to be the pirates. Their targets in low-sec are going to dry up and they will no longer be able to escape those of us who consider themselves anti-pirate
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:26:00 - [36] This is an all round awesome change. Now next time someone whines about how invulnerable snipers are we can verbally kick their heads in. The Privateering Life
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:43:00 - [37] Dangerous this change is. It will impact everyone from miners, haulers, to snipers, pirates, mission runners and plex runners. In effect it will impact more styles of play than any other change presented in Kali. It has the potential to have a ruinous effect on the games subscriptions. The penalty seems to much. It will have dramatic impact upon several styles of play. Haulers will be impacted the least I think, miners as well ( I don't know many barges that mount WCS, heck the strippers, and a mining upgrade will eat up all your CPU ). Most haulers go for increased cargo capacity over WCS, in most situations. Plex Runners and Mission runners will probably be impacted a great deal, many plex and mission runners fit at least 1 WCS. The reason is that without one if you get dropped by the game in a plex or on high level missions you're going to be in a pod when you come back in. The 1 WCS lets you escape that fate without much effect, in the new system though you are going to have some severe penalties for mounting even the one, which is needed primarily due to server instabilities. Snipers will be the most effected, no longer will a sniper be able to fit all WCS in their lows and expect to snipe. This in a way is good, no more sniping outside the range of the gate guns.... However many people are going to be effected and that's where the possibility for disaster rises. I and many of my friends are concerned that Kali might alter gameplay so much that we see a drastic drop in subscriptions. Now the WCS change alone and the Inertial Stab change are probably not enough by themselves but there are many other game aspects that are changing that are going to affect a lot of people. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:52:00 - [38] Originally by: spurious signal I honestly think that the people who find this nerf the most difficult are going to be the pirates. Their targets in low-sec are going to dry up and they will no longer be able to escape those of us who consider themselves anti-pirate Of course they will, because when someone starts putting up a fight now, they won't be able to warp off while smack talking. For anyone else, it's still business as usual. Travelling? Fit WCS. Reach destination. Dock. Refit. Anyone who's going to boycot lowsec/0.0-sec because of the WCS changes is under a false impression that they give any real security. Sooner or later, someone with enough friends to cancel all your WCS will jump in next to you and blow you to kingdom come; change or no change. The clueless will either cower under their beds, or lose ships left and right and then come on the forums and threaten to quit EVE. But with any luck, a handful of people will try to figure out how to use things like the map, scanner and local intelligence-gathering channels. Sooner or later, they'll realize that the risk isn't all that great if you make even the smallest attempt at staying safe, and the game will be a better place for it. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 09:53:00 - [39] Originally by: chromer one hehe RA and others will finally loose their frigates... and wcs are put to ships they belong.. haulers and wimp ships Well.. Haulers are in fact more vulnerable now.. Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, biggest cap battery I can fit. 3 warpcore stabs. All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not. Anyway I dont care. I didnt see the point int he warp core nerf anyway. I know I certainly didnt want the drawback with less damage/grid/cap unless I knew I was going to engage a bigger ship that had a disrupter and only acted as bait fort he rest of the enemy fleet.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, 1mn mwd 3 warpcore stabs. All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not. Ummm what do sensor boosters and lock time have to do with ninja hauling and getting away from hostiles? Your not wanting to fight just warp the heck away.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:27:00 - [41] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/10/2006 10:30:02 Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Well.. Haulers are in fact more vulnerable now.. Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, 1mn mwd 3 warpcore stabs. All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not. Anyway I dont care. I didnt see the point int he warp core nerf anyway. I know I certainly didnt want the drawback with less damage/grid/cap unless I knew I was going to engage a bigger ship that had a disrupter and only acted as bait fort he rest of the enemy fleet. How about learning to fly a ship suited for that role, a blockade runner? You get +2 extra warp strength without sacrificing a single low slot for a warpcore stabilizer. This way you got "stabs" on by default and can still fit some EW and/or tank if you feel like it. You can't ask for a perfect hauling solution with the time it takes to train to fly a basic industrial ship. If you want better ninja running capabilities, you have to specilize in it.
King Fury Caldari New Justice	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:34:00 - [42] I thought the wcs nerf only applied to ships that had guns in there hi slots? Also there are so many counters for wcs in 0.0 (bubbles and dictors), the nerf seems unnecessary in my opinion. Instead of people whining about wcs on the forums more people will be whining about CTRL q
Okkie2	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:42:00 - [43] Edited by: Okkie2 on 25/10/2006 10:45:13 Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Edited by: Luke Pubcrawler on 25/10/2006 08:17:56 Theoreticaly, but remember you need 75% cap charge to activate a module. So if I am ratting or missioning with the stab off and a pirate scans me or visits my belt then I have a problem. Even worse if I do switch it on but fail to escape then what little chance I had that my PvE fitted ship could fight his PvP one has been removed by the nerf. Actually i wasn't thinking of turning it on when a pirat jumps in, but use it as a way to enter and leave the system your mission is in. Activating it after a pirat has scanned you will not work because it uses 50-75% of your cap AND your cap must be above 95% Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Ummm what do sensor boosters and lock time have to do with ninja hauling and getting away from hostiles? Your not wanting to fight just warp the heck away.. If he got jumped by a pirate his ship will probably not warp away quickly enough so he needs the stabs to save him. If the pirate has more warpscramblers as he has stabs you need to break his lock and that's what the midslots are used for.
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:45:00 - [44] This is an good change to warp core stabs. The main problem was them being used in combat situations. Equiped on certain ships they became a joke. Now you can still use them but suffer the consequences. Risk vs Reward, as it should be. This change has no effect on travelling (where I've always prefered nano's anyway). The joys of alliance warfare...
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:48:00 - [45] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 25/10/2006 09:59:38 Originally by: chromer one hehe RA and others will finally loose their frigates... and wcs are put to ships they belong.. haulers and wimp ships Well.. Haulers are in fact more vulnerable now.. Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, 1mn mwd 3 warpcore stabs. All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not. Multispecs are being nerfed on non-ECM ships anyway so even without the WCS nerf your midslots defence would need a refit. The joys of alliance warfare...
Dreamdancer Minmatar Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Miss Overlord ginger megs will be unhappy lol was thinking the samething myself. So much for him being the uber wimp and sitting 150 km off the Hag gate aligned with all his lows filled with stabs shooting noob ships. Him and all snipers will have to stop using stabs to protect themselves. Maybe this will cut into sniping. Doubt it, but we can hope. Honestly no prob with gate campers. Those that sit at the gate, within range of the guns. Just have no respect for the cowardly snipers that kill noobs and think they're cool, but don't even have the cohonies to fly up and loot cans from hualers they pop cause it would require getting close enough for someone to attack them. Plus as anyone will tell ya. Stabs have no place in true pvp. They belong on haulers and such ships that are trying to avoid getting killed. We are recruiting!
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:50:00 - [47] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/10/2006 10:52:10 Originally by: Okkie2 If he got jumped by a pirate his ship will probably not warp away quickly enough so he needs the stabs to save him. If the pirate has more warpscramblers as he has stabs you need to break his lock and that's what the midslots are used for. Thats a really thin line of defense especially with the ecm nerf as jammers are chance based and any pvp ship worth its salt will frag that badger well before it can be jammed.. All extenders and wcs still seem to me the best fir for non blockade runner haulers.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Tas Devil JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.10.25 10:53:00 - [48] Edited by: Tas Devil on 25/10/2006 10:53:28 Originally by: Sales Merchant This is likely to hurt Ginger Magician more than anyone else in EVE tbh So true ... this is actually a Ginger Magician nerf not a wcs nerf... Tas The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware
Verone Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:02:00 - [49] This news Just in! Veto have released this official response regarding the nerf of Warp Core Stabiliers : Quote: VETO OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT OLolOLolOLOLolololOloLolOloLl0l0l0lL0l0l0lL0l0l0l0l0lololol YESSSSSSSSS!!11one YESYESYESYESYESYESYESSSYESYESYESYESYESYESYEEESSSSS!!!11 WINZ0000000000000R. Thank you for your attention. WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
NestcePas	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:04:00 - [50] Obviously I'm missing something here. Sig radiusbonus of -50 %, I would think this is good for the target? So why would they leave low-sec and 0.0? I would think ppl would be more willing to risk going there?
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:06:00 - [51] Originally by: King Fury I thought the wcs nerf only applied to ships that had guns in there hi slots? Also there are so many counters for wcs in 0.0 (bubbles and dictors), the nerf seems unnecessary in my opinion. Instead of people whining about wcs on the forums more people will be whining about CTRL q IMO this will seriously decrease the price of vagabonds
Sean Dillon Caldari Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:22:00 - [52] Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead. If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die. They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage. I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that. If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:25:00 - [53] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/10/2006 11:25:39 \o give my regards to the wow players plz.. And seriously.. any mission runner worth a shiznit will never ever* lose his ship to scramming mission rats.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
McBrite	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:26:00 - [54] NICE!!! Finally no more "wannabe-pirates" that attack you, realize they can't take you by a long shot and warp off even-though you have them scrambled! Hurray for real pirates! ;)
Frater Perdurabo The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Sean Dillon Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead. If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die. They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage. I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that. If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now. Can i have your stuff (Always wanted to say that) ----------------------------------- Please note that my response to this thread is probably a result of boredom, and its very likely that i dont care, but am posting in an attempt to wind someone up
Sara Finn Amarr Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:28:00 - [56] The biggest downside to this change (and thankfully someone has mentioned it on the test forum) is for the miners in low security, especially barge pilots. The mining barges are already so restricted with everything being so small on them (small amount of mod slots, small cap, small targetting range, etc.) that if you equip 1 WCS on a Covetor now, you've effectively made your targetting range less than the max range of a Strip Miner. With 2 WCS's equipped, you have to be on top of the 'roid to mine the thing. For mining Battleships or Cruisers (and yes, there are still people that use these), targetting range isn't too much of a problem, but instead, it's locking time. I usually mine in low security with a 'Geddon outfitted with 2 WCS's (those things have saved my ship more than once) and locking time on a 'roid was long before. Don't get me wrong, I was in favour of changing the WCS as long as the nerfs were only against combat ships and not haulers and miners. It seems like CCP got at least half of it right. But it seems easy enough to fix with a doubling the max range of the barges and somehow making 'roids quicker to lock-on to.
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar Black Reign Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:29:00 - [57] Originally by: Budz Fergie Hahahaha!!!! I foresee a lot of vagabonds being parked or dying very quickly now. Thats because dont know how to use them right
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:33:00 - [58] Originally by: NestcePas Obviously I'm missing something here. Sig radiusbonus of -50 %, I would think this is good for the target? So why would they leave low-sec and 0.0? I would think ppl would be more willing to risk going there? It's not a -50% sig bonus. It's a -50% scan resolution 'bonus'. Scan resolution affects your lock time, the higher the stat the quicker the lock. The joys of alliance warfare...
Kye Do'lan Gallente The Whitesands Consortium	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:34:00 - [59] Edited by: Kye Do''lan on 25/10/2006 11:35:01 Originally by: Trahern Twrgadarn Woohoo, all we need now is a solution to station/gate hugging and we may have worthwhile pvp. lets nerfbat this shower of s**te too
Swamp Ziro EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:37:00 - [60] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 25/10/2006 11:39:53 Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: spurious signal This will effectively extend the borders of 0.0 right up to the edge of 0.5 - prepare to see high-sec mission systems become massively overcrowded (Motsu anyone?) and low-sec systems become as barren as 99% of 0.0 is. I don't think that there is a huge low-security mission running crowd to begin with. People who were running missions in low-sec will simply continue to do so. Ginger's out of business, tho. Poor SOB. QFFT. If I'm running missions in low sec, it means I dont NEED WCS to begin with, so please, don't argue my side of the issue, because I'm perfectly fine with the changes. If you want to be safe, don't undock. EDIT: To the original quote, are you as big a coward as your post shows? Low sec is a cakewalk for chrissakes, and hopefully, all the cowards will pack and go to highsec, less lag for all of us.
Kalissa D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:51:00 - [61] Edited by: Kalissa on 25/10/2006 11:52:26 I am absolutely delighted to see this nerf being put on WCS's. Our alliance deals mainly in 0.0 but occasionally we do go killing in low sec, 0.4 systems and below are supposed to be riskier thats the whole point. Some combat pilots in 0.0 nerf their own setups so much just to fit stabilizers "just incase" and all they end up doing is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, because they left off those damage mods they do end up losing the fight and needing to use their WCS. I have no arguement with someone transporting a ship and having stabs fitted, nor do I with having them on haulers, thats what makes this nerf fair in my opinion, it only affects the people who want to have their cake and eat it. Because we hang around the pure blind region so much we in Triumvirate know all the main culrpits in the area who always fight with stabs and right now I'm sat here with a really smug grin on my face as I know just how royally screwed they are now, and believe me there are some around who will be absolutely FUBAR'd (you know who you are)and now they will have to put their money where their mouth is. Hell we've seen Crows with WCS fitted, Eagles with them (an Eagle fgs!! You need every low slot you have!!) To any who lose their courage to come to 0.0 because of this, then all I have to say is go back to high sec with your tail between your legs and hide under your bed. If you want 0.0 combat, you now have to take a risk to do it. Lets see how many are upto it.
arutha Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:56:00 - [62] omg gonna agree with a d00m member but here goes . i agree kallisa . finally we will seperate the pvp men from the boys . yay for ccp
Hermia HIVE	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:58:00 - [63] Sensationalizing the detremental effects of this neuf is completely un-warrented, maybe some people are out of there comfort zone but honestly... "Subscriptions will suffer", "miners are limited", "agent runners will hurt". lol, guys its not that bad. I can see how the solo crowd see this as 'game destroying' but maybe things were never ment to be that easy, I hope it does slow down mining and agenting especially. Minerals and iskies need to have more worth behind them (through the necessity of team play), were in a multiplayer game after all. but atleast everyone of all carrier paths can agree that griefers have more problems to think about
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 11:58:00 - [64] Originally by: Kalissa Edited by: Kalissa on 25/10/2006 11:52:26 I am absolutely delighted to see this nerf being put on WCS's. Our alliance deals mainly in 0.0 but occasionally we do go killing in low sec, 0.4 systems and below are supposed to be riskier thats the whole point. Some combat pilots in 0.0 nerf their own setups so much just to fit stabilizers "just incase" and all they end up doing is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, because they left off those damage mods they do end up losing the fight and needing to use their WCS. I have no arguement with someone transporting a ship and having stabs fitted, nor do I with having them on haulers, thats what makes this nerf fair in my opinion, it only affects the people who want to have their cake and eat it. Because we hang around the pure blind region so much we in Triumvirate know all the main culrpits in the area who always fight with stabs and right now I'm sat here with a really smug grin on my face as I know just how royally screwed they are now, and believe me there are some around who will be absolutely FUBAR'd (you know who you are)and now they will have to put their money where their mouth is. Hell we've seen Crows with WCS fitted, Eagles with them (an Eagle fgs!! You need every low slot you have!!) To any who lose their courage to come to 0.0 because of this, then all I have to say is go back to high sec with your tail between your legs and hide under your bed. If you want 0.0 combat, you now have to take a risk to do it. Lets see how many are upto it. QTF.. Amen [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Syllke Aronstein Gallente Le Moulin Rouge	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:00:00 - [65] Great to see this change, I allways instructed pilots that WCS were for people who wanted to loose a fight, and should only go on miners and haulers. Would however like to see a more sliding scale of Warp scrambling rather than going up in intergers, the rest of the EVE world seems to work on percentages, except this.
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:02:00 - [66] quote=spurious signal] For anyone else, it's still business as usual. Travelling? Fit WCS. Reach destination. Dock. Refit. Anyone who's going to boycot lowsec/0.0-sec because of the WCS changes is under a false impression that they give any real security. Sooner or later, someone with enough friends to cancel all your WCS will jump in next to you and blow you to kingdom come; change or no change. While it is true that WCS won't protect you from the mass gank they would from individual pirates and some protection was better than nothing. Until recently I sometimes ratted and ran missions in lowsec leading to a few tussles with pirates, mostly much more experienced than myself, which usually cost me a ship. Fitting a WCS or two meant I had a sporting chance to get away. Remember even these individual pirates had me badly out SP and outgunned - their 18 month old character in PvP fully T2 Thorax (typical example) vs my 4 month character in PvE caracal or ferox. If my WCS got me away that was good, if it was not enough then that was fair too, I accept life in Eve is meant to be harsh. Eventually I limited missions to high sec and ratting operations to 0.0. More profit, less risk as it is much easier to see a pirate coming in an empty system. As I said,b efore moving to 0.0 I occassionally lost a ship to pirates despite WCS and would have lost more had I not had one fitted. In 0.0 I don't bother with the WCS and have not lost a ship since moving there a or so month back. I have almost stopped mission running now as it is simply too dull. Post Kali if I wanted to move back to lowsec I will suffer additional penalties for fitting a WCS that makes ratting/missioning more difficult but makes my WCS no more effective than before. Sorry Pirates, this is one potential target that will never be seen lowsec again. There were much better ways for CCP to penalise excessive use of stabs - increas their fitting requirements and make them active modules would be first choice, yet they picked one that hurt people who were not abusing them, frankly thats a bad development choice.
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:05:00 - [67] they should make it where thier is no penalty for fitting 2 WCS.s however fittign 3 or more should carry cummuntive results. after all if you cant produce 3 war scram stregth then you deserve to watch your prey get away.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:07:00 - [68] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Until recently I sometimes ratted and ran missions in lowsec leading to a few tussles with pirates, mostly much more experienced than myself, which usually cost me a ship. Fitting a WCS or two meant I had a sporting chance to get away. Remember even these individual pirates had me badly out SP and outgunned - their 18 month old character in PvP fully T2 Thorax (typical example) vs my 4 month character in PvE caracal or ferox. If my WCS got me away that was good, if it was not enough then that was fair too, I accept life in Eve is meant to be harsh. Eventually I limited missions to high sec and ratting operations to 0.0. More profit, less risk as it is much easier to see a pirate coming in an empty system. As I said,b efore moving to 0.0 I occassionally lost a ship to pirates despite WCS and would have lost more had I not had one fitted. In 0.0 I don't bother with the WCS and have not lost a ship since moving there a or so month back. I have almost stopped mission running now as it is simply too dull. Post Kali if I wanted to move back to lowsec I will suffer additional penalties for fitting a WCS that makes ratting/missioning more difficult but makes my WCS no more effective than before. Sorry Pirates, this is one potential target that will never be seen lowsec again. There were much better ways for CCP to penalise excessive use of stabs - increas their fitting requirements and make them active modules would be first choice, yet they picked one that hurt people who were not abusing them, frankly thats a bad development choice. A simple and very very effective trick for avoiding pirate ganks in low sec whilst ratting is to immediatly go up or down and let the rats chase you as you move away from the ecliptic and obvious warp ins for gankers.. This simple tactic will save you 95% of the time as you have more than enough time to align and warp away.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Raneru Gallente Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:21:00 - [69] Edited by: Raneru on 25/10/2006 12:21:24 Originally by: Hermia I can see how the solo crowd see this as 'game destroying' but maybe things were never ment to be that easy ... were in a multiplayer game after all. QFT. There are lots of ways to avoid getting ganked without resorting to WCS. These mostly involve interacting with fellow eve players instead of going it alone.
Bloody Sabbath	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:27:00 - [70] Originally by: Raneru Edited by: Raneru on 25/10/2006 12:21:24 QFT. There are lots of ways to avoid getting ganked without resorting to WCS. These mostly involve interacting with fellow eve players instead of going it alone. QFT!
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:36:00 - [71] Somebody said it would lead to less players in low sec. Well I for one was days away from starting low sec ratting. Having seen the nerf, I won't be there. So that's one less carebear for you to 8 man gank lame, saying "YARR!" a lot to make you look somehow "not lame". Looks like you'll have to run more **te CAMPs to get your kicks from now on. That is just so "Eve". As with any community, the worse they behave, the worse it gets. You made your bed, you lie in it. Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better.*
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:46:00 - [72] Why do people think its so dangerous to rat in low sec? As long as you dont warp in to the belt at 15km and you use the slightest bit of caution you should rarely ever get caught.. It seems every video I see of pirates ganking ratters the ratter was sitting imobile at the 15km warp in blindly shooting away with no clue that evey pirate in the world is going to warp in at that same 15km.. Rats use MWD so warp in at some other random distance and let them come to you.. Cripes how hard is it to use some common sense? [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Pax Althaleen Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.25 12:52:00 - [73] It IS true to say that this will prompt alot more thought about going into Low Sec and 0.0. Many will simply NOT do It now with this WCS Nerf coming. All I'm simply stating is that It will be a HUGE Factor in whether Newer Peeps will venture out there - Plain and simple... Now I've seen a fair amount of Discussion in the Forums about how Empty Low Sec and 0.0 can be and that those that live in these Areas would like to see more Targets - Er Uhmmmm - Pilots I mean in those Areas. I honestly don't see how a Nerf like this would promote anything BUT more of the same behaviour of staying in NPC CORPs and never going into Low Sec or 0.0 Personally - I was about to make a move out into 0.0 but now this has Me thinking that I'll just see how the Wind Blows and postpone My trip until after Kali "1" comes out. Now You can say what You want about that but Daddy didn't raise no fool. I will as others - Calculate My Odds and act accordingly but I am sure that alot of other Peeps will be doing the same. This WCS Nerf will figure prominently in that thinking... Regards, Pax Althaleen Holder - House Althaleen
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:01:00 - [74] "Come to low sec, it's SAFE as long as you as are smart and uber!" Sorry did the word "Pirate" appear in your name? Well my smart and uberness says "Don't fall for whatever pirates say, ever". People can't control themselves, so I'll stay where Concord control them thanks. Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:04:00 - [75] lol never said uber.. and ignore the 'pirate' in my name.. im simply a no sp forum alt.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:11:00 - [76] For thouse of u who cristisized the Badger setup.. you`d be amazed how many of thouse 4point and 6 point inties I`ve evaded with that thing.. and to jam someone you need to lock em.. have you ever tried locking anything in an indy? takes 2 hours :D That setup were especially nice if u had to dodge enemies in an area you dont have instas in. 2 sensorboosters had just the right time to lock and jam an inty and get out on structure (badger II only have 3 lows for warpcore) But I was just pointing out that haulers will get nerfed by theese changes to and aye ECM is being nerfed so it doesnt matter. I`m not whining I`m just pointing out possibillities. And no I havent kitted out a blocade runner :D I train stuff like Guns n such...
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:16:00 - [77] I must be honest ive been playing less than 3 weeks and am trying to get into construction / production and hence need some of those rarer harder to get how is this going to affect me? sorry n00b ~n00b of all trades~ ~Airkio~
Wayback Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:19:00 - [78] Edited by: Wayback on 25/10/2006 13:19:20 I think it all works out in the wash. If you look at it from a carebare vs. pirate stance the pvper/pirates get a wcs nerf and the carebares get to keep local with added percs for spotting hostiles even eaiser. There has always been ships blowing up in low sec and there will continue to be ships blown up in low sec this will change nothing. On a side note there is no such thing as an ugly woman, there are just some alot better looken then others.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:24:00 - [79] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Why do people think its so dangerous to rat in low sec? As long as you dont warp in to the belt at 15km and you use the slightest bit of caution you should rarely ever get caught.. It seems every video I see of pirates ganking ratters the ratter was sitting imobile at the 15km warp in blindly shooting away with no clue that evey pirate in the world is going to warp in at that same 15km.. Rats use MWD so warp in at some other random distance and let them come to you.. Cripes how hard is it to use some common sense? It is not difficult to rat in lowsec for EXPERIENCED pilot. Beginner WILL LOSE the ship very-very quickly. Because if you are hunting solo you must warp away to SAF asap if somebody unknown enters local. If you are member of prosper corporation( from good alliance) this task is not difficult - you have intel, you have support, you have good advices, you have patrols. But being in young corp or solo is really annoying and troublesome. But it is not my problem, really. It is problem of CCP how to encourage carebears and noobs live in lowsec and below.
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:27:00 - [80] It's a wash, for me. I've ratted many hours in lowsec, and have never used stabs. Never has any pirate forced me into combat without me wanting the combat. It's called watching local, staying away from the warp in point, and being aligned in bigger ships. If you're ratting in a frig, be ready to warp out. You still need to orbit and all that to avoid damage, but your ship aligns so quickly that it shouldn't matter. If you're in a bigger ship, i.e. cruiser/bc, you should be aligned, preferably already going ~50% of your max speed anyway. I didn't cry out for a stab nerf, but now that it's happened, I still don't care. Adapt. My corp and I will.
Jane Spondogolo	Posted - 2006.10.25 13:38:00 - [81] Im more than a little worried about some of these changes basically meaning a huge increase in blob tactics. Moving a T2 battleship around systems? Better get a blob (already hard enough with the insta nerf) because the 3 stabs you use to escape gate intys now render you impotent. Planning on killing a dread thats sieging your POS (Rumor has it theres been a 500% hp increase, which is ..... mad) better get a BIG blob (but uh oh, what about that lag hey?).. It goes on. The problem with all this, is I'm seeing lots of changes that seem to be driven by the sort of crazy forum consensus we see here. The problem is however, there IS no consensus in eve. Theres lots of self-interest positions that are often at odds. Theres pirates who don't like things to run away. Theres haulers who would like to run away. Theres alliances who would like dreads to be more survivable. Theres alliances who wish dreads where easier to pop. All sorts of different perspectives. The problem is, CCP in its quest to listen to the public (well, maybe it didnt with instas. I really think CCP messed that up and created a gross disadvantage for newer players) hasnt really put it all together to see how it affects final balance. Oh god, don't get me started on gate guns. The problem is , in my opinion, that these changes will ultimately entrench entrenched powers in the game, and seriously disadvantage young characters. And thats a bad thing. Do the "big boys" of 0.0 REALLY need a more solid grip. No I'd argue. But interestingly, the one thing the whole game DOES agree on, is that POS wars suck eggs. And its going to get worse folks. NOTHING is stopping POS spamming, and blobbings about to get a whole lot worse. C'mon CCP, rather than tinkering around the edges, do something RADICAL, and get rid of battlestar POS wars and come up with something really exciting. And yeah, I'm biased re stabs. I <3 my "burn eden" style raven setup.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:01:00 - [82] I actually really liked the idea of making POS's spawn with almost no shields and having to 'charge up' slowly over time unless charged from multiple capitol ships. Would make a huge dent in the POS spamming syndrome. A POS with no shields is VERY easy to take out. The problem with battlestar POS's is that they require such a huge friggen fleet to take down... 5-6 dreads... a fleet to protect the dreads.... etc.
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Moving a T2 battleship around systems? Better get a blob (already hard enough with the insta nerf) because the 3 stabs you use to escape gate intys now render you impotent. If you're just moving it from A to B you're not going to want to fight anything, you're just going to deliver it in one piece, so in that respect WCS still do their job. I only use WCS for non combat, like when moving something valuable or shopping for skills during an empire war, if I do get engaged I'll do my best to fight back, if I can't then I'll 'tacticly withdraw' . Using stabs as part of a combat setup always has been seen as cowardly, generally used on ships looking to gank weak and easy targets with the WCS there in case they meet something they can't handle (like a pvp ship setup ). If you can't afford to lose the ship you're using, you shouldn't be flying it in pvp, that's the rule. Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:15:00 - [84] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Why do people think its so dangerous to rat in low sec? As long as you dont warp in to the belt at 15km and you use the slightest bit of caution you should rarely ever get caught.. It seems every video I see of pirates ganking ratters the ratter was sitting imobile at the 15km warp in blindly shooting away with no clue that evey pirate in the world is going to warp in at that same 15km.. Rats use MWD so warp in at some other random distance and let them come to you.. Cripes how hard is it to use some common sense? I am not trying to suggest that it is suicidal to lowsec mission run or rat, you are quite right there are ways to make it much less dangerous. However in nerfing the combat ability of stabbed ships CCP have nerfed the ships of lowsec misson runners and ratters. We do fit stabs with and legitimate reason - we are not fitted for PVP and want to avoid a fight with another player. Now if I take the most elementary precaution against pirates and fit a stab or two I totally nerf my PVE setup. I have no problem with PvP and am no coward but I can see no reason to lowsec mission in my Raven without either: A) gimping it by adding a stab or two - start to lock, make tea, lock. Not only does this make my mission harder but means whatever slim chance I had against a pirate who could scramble me has gone. B) offering it as a gift to any pirate who can catch me in the mission and has a single scrambler. I am not Tiller, I cannot plough through missions in record time, 6 month old players in regularly fitted ships can't. A lvl 4 can take us all evening, and your average player lasts around 6 months. At that rate I need to do dozens of level 4s to pay for the Raven and replace implants if I get podded. So say 20 evenings in lowsec without a WCS before I break even ? We are constantly told "risk vs reward" and "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Fine, nerf WCS and you increase my risk to the point where entering lowsec is pointless.
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:16:00 - [85] Originally by: Sean Dillon Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead. If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die. They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage. I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that. If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now. Um... BUHU? Maybe you should re-evaluate how you approach Level 4s, put a bit of thought into them etc etc... I solo Level 4's all the time without WCS OR Faction gear and I rarely need to warp out... and I always make sure the Scrambling ships are top on my list of priorities... Get a grip, if you've been doing level 4s for 3 years then you should be doing them in your sleep by now... Get out and PVP! For people who complain about there being plenty of ways to stop ships ie Bubbles and dictors... DUH!! Ever been to low-sec, ever been in an Empire war? I'm really glad of these changes... might make it possible to be able to take down a sniper with less than 3 or 4 ships and put an end to people starting fights then wussing out. Well done CCP! ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Scoundrelus Unseen Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:17:00 - [86] This isn't meant as a flame or anything... but how will Burn Eden change their tactics to accomodate this? Kinda curious... =============================================== We are Watching You.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:26:00 - [87] Originally by: Pax Althaleen It IS true to say that this will prompt alot more thought about going into Low Sec and 0.0. Many will simply NOT do It now with this WCS Nerf coming. All I'm simply stating is that It will be a HUGE Factor in whether Newer Peeps will venture out there - Plain and simple... Now I've seen a fair amount of Discussion in the Forums about how Empty Low Sec and 0.0 can be and that those that live in these Areas would like to see more Targets - Er Uhmmmm - Pilots I mean in those Areas. I honestly don't see how a Nerf like this would promote anything BUT more of the same behaviour of staying in NPC CORPs and never going into Low Sec or 0.0 Personally - I was about to make a move out into 0.0 but now this has Me thinking that I'll just see how the Wind Blows and postpone My trip until after Kali "1" comes out. Now You can say what You want about that but Daddy didn't raise no fool. I will as others - Calculate My Odds and act accordingly but I am sure that alot of other Peeps will be doing the same. This WCS Nerf will figure prominently in that thinking... Regards, Erm I live in lowsec I never equip stabs unless there is, literally, nothing better to put there (which, since I use a ferox and/or a Caracal, means I never equip stabs unless in travel mode). If I'm ratting I'm combat fitted If I'm PVP'ing I'm combat fitted If I'm mining (in an osprey) I'm MINING fitted none of those fittings includes WCS 0.0 (and lowsec) is fairly easy to survive in. 1) Never warp to 15km 2) Make your own BM's so you can warp in at odd distances 3) Never fight on the ecliptic 4) In larger ships always fight aligned. You will almost never get ganked. People who equip stabs are generally people who die. Rig to win. Not to run.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:26:00 - [88] Well something i want is that not everybody have a scram. Otherwise the stab effect will be just opposed. No one will start anything. So dev should consider slight increase in scram fitting req so that not VEREY ship flies with one. Otherwise I (and most) will neve rver take any risk against any ship not much much weaker.
Larshus Magrus Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:43:00 - [89] After think about if for a few hours and rolling through all the scenarios in my head I think overall its a good change. From personal experience I think: 1) Pirates, as a whole, are going to get what they asked for... but not in a good way. They will have less carebear targets and more serious targets. I'm still going to 0.0 and most of the time the asshat pirate that thought I was a noob runs as he realizes im not exploding any time soon. Its annoying as hell. Pirates will be engaged ALOT more as those coming throught he gates wont be the soft targets that the pirates are used to. Most pirates cry Yarr and exclaim they want more "real" targets... my belief is the majority of pirates are actually oportunistic griefers. The REAL pirates wil welcome this change.. the griefers are in for a bad time :) I for one am going grifer hunting as soon as this happens. 2) Mining bargers are getting screwed. ITs standard in deep 0.0 to fit one wcs not for pvp action but incase an empty belt spawns and you need to get out if a npc locks you. Don't start with mining barges shouldnt be mining solo in 0.0. It happens alot. Plus tech2 barges mine solo all the time. Not being able to get out solo kinda rubs. It can be worked around but I believe the miner gets the shaft. Make it so miners dont have the distance penalty when targeting roids and this fixes the whole problem with no impact on anything else. 3) PvP will shift from battleship blobs to smaller mixed frigate/cruiser/BC blobs. This is an evolution that will take a bit to happen. I'm not talkign about fleet blobs but your typical roaming gang. BC's with gang mods will become even more important. I think this is a GOOD change. More pvp action, less snipping drive by battleship action. If you decide to bring out the big ships you will know that there is a good chance to lose them as they wil lbe able to be locked down pretty easily... which is the way it should be. In a large gang you will still have a sprinkle of them.... but no more inty/BS gangs. 4) Does not affect empire at all except for empire wars. Empire wars consist mainly of people blobbing a gate and waiting for a target to come through. # things typically happen here. a) Single target comes through big blob. No interdictors/bubbles in empire so alert target gets away if stabbed. Powned if not stabbed. Changes to single target gets powned right away most of the time now. b) Few snippers in gate single target comes through. Nothing changes. c) Same as b except tackers at gate., Used to be larger ships made it through...now they get locked and destroyed unless they can kill the tacklers fast enough. d) Blob comes through, camping blob runs like hell. This is the biggest change. Camping blob no longer CAN run like hell. It gets eaten as the target blob locks the larger ships down and destroys them. I particularly like #d. If youve been at war before with 5 enemies picking targets off at a gate, and you spend a hour to get a group together just to have the cowrds run when you arive... its frustrating. Now you have a fighting chance to blow some of them up. 5) t2 haulers. Makes them stronger as thier inherant wcs' have no penatlties. 6) t1 haulers. No more fitting ecm in mids. works for me. You want to run blockades, take the time and train for a blockade runner. Thats all I have to say about that.
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:47:00 - [90] Edited by: Saladin on 25/10/2006 14:51:57 Originally by: Hardin This is a great change. TBH those carebears whining about WCS should realise that 'pirates & griefers' are often the greatest users of WCS. This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy. QFT Now that low sec pirates/greifers will have to use a 'real' pvp setup, they will be more vulnerable. They can adapt and roam in larger groups, but large groups attract attention, and when it comes down to it, there will always be more people willing to shoot pirates than those who would support them. I remember once there was a Megathron pilot who had just killed one of my corpmates. I came upon him with my tempest, waited for him to initiate agression, and then I jammed and scrambled him, and proceeded to kill him at point blank range. I must have had 2 points on the guy, but he warped out. I asked him in local "How many stabs" and he said "Enough to get away with killing your corp mates". Anyone who has been in this situation knows that this nerf is the right thing to do. ----
Cyrus Phoenix	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:59:00 - [92] I remember once there was a Megathron pilot who had just killed one of my corpmates. I came upon him with my tempest, waited for him to initiate agression, and then I jammed and scrambled him, and proceeded to kill him at point blank range. I must have had 2 points on the guy, but he warped out. I asked him in local "How many stabs" and he said "Enough to get away with killing your corp mates". Anyone who has been in this situation knows that this nerf is the right thing to do. Looking at this from a neutral perspective I would say that as he got a kill and got away alive he had abetter fitting than you did. If the guy is a pirate in any realistic sense of the word or simply an enemy intent on raiding your assets then he achieved his mission you failed because he had the correct fitting for the task at hand, you did not.
Scoundrelus Unseen Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:00:00 - [93] Originally by: Hardin This is a great change. TBH those carebears whining about WCS should realise that 'pirates & griefers' are often the greatest users of WCS. This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy. And yet it is these same people I see whining about the stab nerf, not 'pirates & griefers'. =============================================== We are Watching You.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:05:00 - [94] think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs.
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:09:00 - [95] I have one ship that uses WCS and only because I can't remove them (prowler) A few low sec survival tips that have served me well - note some also work in 0.0: Preperation When first going to a new low sec location ALWAYS make at least 3 safe spots, do this in a shuttle or other fast/disposable ship. If Ratting or Mining make off line warp in points to the belts - I.E. warp to one of your safe spots and then warp to the belt at 100 and book mark that as your warp into that belt. That way when the pirate warps to belt voila you are way away from him and can get out before he can scram you. * Always watch local, check everybody in local before you begin ratting or missioning make sure their pictures show up after checking and they are OK. * When a new person comes in always check right away, again if OK make sure picture shows up. * If not OK warp to one of the safe spots which if in a big ship you should already be aligned to. There are more but can't give you all of them "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:11:00 - [96] Edited by: Araxmas on 25/10/2006 15:11:23 aw link doesn't work for me edit: ah wait there she goes. --------
Elianidd Farseeker	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:12:00 - [97] Originally by: Novan Leon Doesn't this hurt PvE-ers in lowsec the most out of everyone? (ie. because they still perform a combat role, just not a PvP role) Yes. But nobody else seems to care about that aspect of this change.
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:13:00 - [98] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler I remember once there was a Megathron pilot who had just killed one of my corpmates. I came upon him with my tempest, waited for him to initiate agression, and then I jammed and scrambled him, and proceeded to kill him at point blank range. I must have had 2 points on the guy, but he warped out. I asked him in local "How many stabs" and he said "Enough to get away with killing your corp mates". Anyone who has been in this situation knows that this nerf is the right thing to do. Looking at this from a neutral perspective I would say that as he got a kill and got away alive he had abetter fitting than you did. If the guy is a pirate in any realistic sense of the word or simply an enemy intent on raiding your assets then he achieved his mission you failed because he had the correct fitting for the task at hand, you did not. If I fit warp scramblers in all my mid slots I would not be able to defeat him and he would have won. So the WCS setup on his ship left me with two choices, either let him get away or let him kill me. Sorry, this is another case of someone getting their cake and eating it. The fact that I had gallente jammers on my Tempest is a sign of only one thing, I had the perfect setup and skills for killing him. The only way to keep him there would have been to give up that setup and die. ----
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 - [99] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker "However in nerfing the combat ability of stabbed ships CCP have nerfed the ships of lowsec misson runners and ratters. We do fit stabs with and legitimate reason - we are not fitted for PVP and want to avoid a fight with another player. Now if I take the most elementary precaution against pirates and fit a stab or two I totally nerf my PVE setup." What he said. As always, PvEers suffer for the sake of PvP game abuse. Couldn't they have found a different/better way to "nerf" the WCS sniper abuse without totally screwing low-sec PvEers? It'll be ironic how many MORE cries we'll be having for more people in low-sec after this, since this change will "scare" people out of low-sec even more than currently. To me, this sounds like a "knee-jerk" type reaction rather than something truly thought-out. You don't need stabs to rat safely in lowsec. 1) Warp in at 40km instead of 15 (actually warp in at 100.. the rats WILL come to you. 2) after warping in go UP (or down) away from the ecliptic... the rats WILL follow you. 3) Fight while running away from the ecliptic. Any Player pirates that warp into the belt will likely warp in at 15km (thus being 85km+ away). even if they warp in at the same distance you did by some miracle they will be several dozen KM away from you because you're not on the ecliptic you're up above it or below it (it's called being 'off grid'). So they will then have to fly to you and get within scramble range (giving you PLENTY of time to warp away). I never fit stabs when ratting in 0.0 or lowsec. I can see why some do. but they are absolutely not needed. And fitting them, even now, significantly reduces the damage you could be doing if you didn't have them fitted. Thus making it take longer, thus leaving you exposed longer, thus increasing the chance of a pirate finding you. And you absolutely do NOT need stabs in missions. Kill the scrambler ships first. If you can't kill the scrambler ship before you need to warp away then you have no business doing that level of mission yet.
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 - [100] hahahah, this doesn't affect me in the slightest. I have never ever ever fitted a WCS to any ship and I never will. Running is not the good option even when in a ship with little/no offenive capabilities, always fight until someone is gone. Yes, i'm the one who flies exhumers through your space without BMs ;p Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
Novan Leon Caldari Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:21:00 - [101] Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:22:00 - [102] Will be nie to see if the tables will turn with this nerf. I mean, the corporations and alliances that stab their ships..... What will they do now? -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:24:00 - [103] Originally by: Novan Leon Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change. Look I rat in 0.0 I rat in lowsec I have NEVER used WCS when ratting. I have NEVER been popped when ratting. Ever See my post above for how to do this. Always Always Always rig to win. You don't need WCS to Rat or run missions.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:25:00 - [104] Your rules from the past. RULE number one - warp out when anybody unknown pop up in local Otherwise Arazu will catch you. And Pilgrim. And often Falcon. And, sometimes, Rapier.
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:32:00 - [105] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs. Roflmao... Seriously. if your in a sniping ship 200km from a gate wtf are you going to use warpcores for? Warp disrupter range is 20km and youll not get it much further even with the gallente recon :P Actually this change boost snipers becasue the dimwits who fitted warpcores while sniping will now fit damage mods. Getting warped in on? covert ops making warpin point? No A sniper dont sit in the same position for that long.. Allso it just takes the click of a button for a sniper to warp out when he see something in overview. Need no warpcores as the enemy havent dropped out of warp yet. THinking snipers will go pop becaseu of this is let me put it as a less thought through concept. This will enhacne sniping because ppl will want to stay outside warp disruption range.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Irashi If you can't afford to lose the ship you're using, you shouldn't be flying it in pvp, that's the rule. I hate this quote. You remember that most of us are speaking of NON consensual PvP? So in most instances we can't chose the ship. If you are speaking of arena like PvP, I will come with my expendable jumpclone, and a expendable cruiser. If I am moving my 1 BS that is the high end limit of my resurces, I want to save it. I will not use control-q as it is metagaming, but I will use the in game options to the max.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:39:00 - [107] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs. Roflmao... Seriously. if your in a sniping ship 200km from a gate wtf are you going to use warpcores for? Warp disrupter range is 20km and youll not get it much further even with the gallente recon :P Actually this change boost snipers becasue the dimwits who fitted warpcores while sniping will now fit damage mods. Getting warped in on? covert ops making warpin point? No A sniper dont sit in the same position for that long.. Allso it just takes the click of a button for a sniper to warp out when he see something in overview. Need no warpcores as the enemy havent dropped out of warp yet. THinking snipers will go pop becaseu of this is let me put it as a less thought through concept. This will enhacne sniping because ppl will want to stay outside warp disruption range. Erm actually you're incorrect. Snipers sit stationary. Covops can fly up and get a scrammer on them while rest of fleet warps in. Covops can passive tank (with speed) long enough for fleet to arrive and get non-covops points on sniper then warp away safe. That or a breakup force can warp in from another quadrant and get scrams on them before they can warp away. Problem before was it wasn't worth the effort to coordinate this because the campers would just warp out with 7 points of WCS on them and you couldn't stop it. Now they won't have that so you can.
Novan Leon Caldari Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:42:00 - [108] Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Novan Leon Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change. Look I rat in 0.0 I rat in lowsec I have NEVER used WCS when ratting. I have NEVER been popped when ratting. Ever See my post above for how to do this. Always Always Always rig to win. You don't need WCS to Rat or run missions. We're not talking about what is possible, we're talking about what is balanced. "Rig to win" is exactly what my post was about; the rigs that are required to win given different objectives. Pre-aligning and letting rats come to you is NOT an option for a Blasterax config , where you're power and survivability are determined by your ability to quickly get in close and keep moving, for example. Your main alternative is to utilize local. frowns
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:42:00 - [109] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Irashi If you can't afford to lose the ship you're using, you shouldn't be flying it in pvp, that's the rule. I hate this quote. You remember that most of us are speaking of NON consensual PvP? So in most instances we can't chose the ship. If you are speaking of arena like PvP, I will come with my expendable jumpclone, and a expendable cruiser. If I am moving my 1 BS that is the high end limit of my resurces, I want to save it. I will not use control-q as it is metagaming, but I will use the in game options to the max. You can always chose your ship. Don't fly what you can't afford to loose. That is one of the most, if not THE most important rules of EVE. If you are moving a BS through low/no sec, fit stabs all you like, just don't expect to be able to fight off any attackers. Hence, perhaps making a few friends wouldn't be such a bad idea. Get them to escort you and your all set. /Ki
TheKiller8 Caldari S.A.S Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:43:00 - [110] BEST IDEA SINCE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE AUTO PILOT You know you are not allowed to link your website on the forums due to the bad language in use. Link removed. -wystler Discussing moderation is a no-no. Please email us instead to discuss at [email protected]. - Tirg
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:44:00 - [111] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Why do people think its so dangerous to rat in low sec? As long as you dont warp in to the belt at 15km and you use the slightest bit of caution you should rarely ever get caught.. It seems every video I see of pirates ganking ratters the ratter was sitting imobile at the 15km warp in blindly shooting away with no clue that evey pirate in the world is going to warp in at that same 15km.. Rats use MWD so warp in at some other random distance and let them come to you.. Cripes how hard is it to use some common sense? I am not trying to suggest that it is suicidal to lowsec mission run or rat, you are quite right there are ways to make it much less dangerous. However in nerfing the combat ability of stabbed ships CCP have nerfed the ships of lowsec misson runners and ratters. We do fit stabs with and legitimate reason - we are not fitted for PVP and want to avoid a fight with another player. Now if I take the most elementary precaution against pirates and fit a stab or two I totally nerf my PVE setup. I have no problem with PvP and am no coward but I can see no reason to lowsec mission in my Raven without either: A) gimping it by adding a stab or two - start to lock, make tea, lock. Not only does this make my mission harder but means whatever slim chance I had against a pirate who could scramble me has gone. B) offering it as a gift to any pirate who can catch me in the mission and has a single scrambler. I am not Tiller, I cannot plough through missions in record time, 6 month old players in regularly fitted ships can't. A lvl 4 can take us all evening, and your average player lasts around 6 months. At that rate I need to do dozens of level 4s to pay for the Raven and replace implants if I get podded. So say 20 evenings in lowsec without a WCS before I break even ? We are constantly told "risk vs reward" and "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Fine, nerf WCS and you increase my risk to the point where entering lowsec is pointless. Very True, I dont' care about WCS, since I usually don't fit one anyways for missions. My tank is fine for any lvl 4 missions. New characters however don't have that privilege, and are always risking getting killed. What they should keep doing lvl 3 missions to satisfy Mr. and Ms. GateCamp? There is nothing glorious to be jammed by a 2 to infinity person gate camp and die miserably without any chance to get out if you're in a bigger ship and PvE fitted. It's just pointless. I hope CCP can REAAALLLYY AFFORD to buy ANOTHER SHIP LOAD of IBM servers and fit them to power new clusters for mission running Motsu... Good luck CCP, it's just last weekend that I had a: "You are # 27th in queue" to login in Motsu, what's going to be after the nerf... ? "You are number 1117 in queue"???? I might just align my Eve gameplay with my favorite TV shows so I can watch an episode or two or go get dinner while certain things in-game work anymore.. I derive great pleasure of wasting my time... being entertained in Eve these days! Keep the flames going I like char broiled meet!
Elianidd Farseeker	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:47:00 - [112] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 25/10/2006 15:21:38 You don't need stabs to rat safely in lowsec or 0.0. 1) Warp in at 40km instead of 15 (actually warp in at 100.. the rats WILL come to you. 2) after warping in go UP (or down) away from the elyptic... the rats WILL follow you. 3) Fight while running away from the elyptic. Any Player pirates that warp into the belt will likely warp in at 15km (thus being 85km+ away). even if they warp in at the same distance you did by some miracle they will be several dozen KM away from you because you're not on the elyptic you're up above it or below it (it's called being 'off grid'). So they will then have to fly to you and get within scramble range (giving you PLENTY of time to warp away). I never fit stabs when ratting in 0.0 or lowsec. I can see why some do. but they are absolutely not needed. And fitting them, even now, significantly reduces the damage you could be doing if you didn't have them fitted. Thus making it take longer, thus leaving you exposed longer, thus increasing the chance of a pirate finding you. If flying off the elyptic is not your style then always fight aligned. Pick a stargate or planet or station and always be flying toward it during a fight. The loot will get a little stretched out but you can always warp back to your 'start point' and fly back outward to collect it after you're done. And you absolutely do NOT need stabs in missions. Kill the scrambler ships first. If you can't kill the scrambler ship before you need to warp away then you have no business doing that level of mission yet. I would agree that you don't NEED stabs. But then again you don't NEED microwarpdrives, or missiles, or armor, or any of the other thousand things they have in-game. It IS possible to play without any one of them. But each adds another potential element of safety. I LIKE to have WCS'es because it gives me that ADDED safety, and, as a smart person, I like to use EVERYTHING I can to be safe -- all of the things you mentioned AND WCS. Why should I now have to give them up because of some stupid abuse by some lame PvPers?
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:52:00 - [113] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker I would agree that you don't NEED stabs. But then again you don't NEED microwarpdrives, or missiles, or armor, or any of the other thousand things they have in-game. It IS possible to play without any one of them. But each adds another potential element of safety. I LIKE to have WCS'es because it gives me that ADDED safety, and, as a smart person, I like to use EVERYTHING I can to be safe -- all of the things you mentioned AND WCS. Why should I now have to give them up because of some stupid abuse by some lame PvPers? 1: It's not abuse, it's playing the game. 2: You can still use WCS, you just can't expect to win a fight with them fitted. 3: Try to play the game without stabs if you don't like them. Works fine for me. I don't fit stabs, and I don't die very often. I'm less than 6 months old, and I like to PvP, and PvE only to afford to buy new ships. It's not dangerous to PvP. It's not lame, and it's actually a core feature of the game. Try it on for size. /Ki
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:53:00 - [114] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker I would agree that you don't NEED stabs. But then again you don't NEED microwarpdrives, or missiles, or armor, or any of the other thousand things they have in-game. It IS possible to play without any one of them. But each adds another potential element of safety. I LIKE to have WCS'es because it gives me that ADDED safety, and, as a smart person, I like to use EVERYTHING I can to be safe -- all of the things you mentioned AND WCS. Why should I now have to give them up because of some stupid abuse by some lame PvPers? And you still have stabs. No one is taking them away. It is just harder to combat with stabs now. MWD's have penalty, sig+cap penalty. Now stabs have penalty in somewhat similar ways as MWD. That's all. Feel free to continue fitting them.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:54:00 - [115] Originally by: TheKiller8 BEST IDEA SINCE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE AUTO PILOT Right, and the autopilot makes for sssuuuuuccchhh a greeeaaattt gameplay experience! I guess if you're bored from autopilot now you can go rat in low sec, to get a doze of adrenaline boost, lol.. i can see the ebil plan of CCP now..
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:56:00 - [116] Actually I rather enjoy the autopilot feature. 10jumps in highsec hauling NPC goods is a great way to make money when you don't have alot of time to devote to gaming. Those that want a more interactive experience can do other stuff like mining/ratting/missioning. I <3 autopilot!
mannyman Ghosts Of Stealth Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:00:00 - [117] If that idea with WCS is implemented, then -V- and LV will suffer highly at their stations while I'm camping... Watch out
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 16:18:00 - [118] Finally they implement this change! Now WCS will only be used for transporting ships from one place to the other, and people will be forced to actually learn to play this game instead of whining and whining over the forums! Actually i believe the penalty for equipping WCS should have been even greater! _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:02:00 - [119] 5 pages of Quote: Whaaaaaa!!!!! and Quote: Yay \o/ I'll add to it. \ / I pirate in low sec I do lvl 3 and 4 missions in Amamake I rat in low sec and as of last night I rat in 0.0 too Never felt the need to use stabs on any of the above. only time I used them was on my Executioner while traveling. cause gatecamps in 0.0 are nasty When you mission run, just move away from the beacon and you are untouchable When you rat, just make a SS near the Sun and align to it while you rat. warp as soon as some one enters local. When you pirate, drink lots of alcohol and have fun This change make them in to the traveling fitting they are supposed to be
Novan Leon Caldari Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:45:00 - [120] I'm believe I'm for the WCS nerf, but this just makes it harder to remove Local from the equation. Oh well...
Seth Allasatre	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:38:00 - [121] How did we get to page 5 and no one made the following suggestion? Fit a good active sensor booster to offset the penalty of the WCS. So, in essence, it will now cost a low AND a mid slot (and a little bit of cap) to use stabs. For the pilot who fits a single stab just to get away when the heat is too high, it'll be a minor inconvenience. One sensor booster per WCS won't make sense for those who fit a half rack, but that's a good thing.
Vanlade Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:50:00 - [122] Most Excellent change :D - Vanlade
Vanlade Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:57:00 - [123] Originally by: Sean Dillon Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead. If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die. They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage. I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that. If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now. You have been running missions for 3 years, and you _still_ need wcs? EvE will be better off without you. Please end your subscription right away and self-destruct in jita. - Vanlade
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:02:00 - [124] I'm happy to see the WCS nerf. It's about damn time. Now, about bookmarks and logging out... My only concern is how it's going to affect PVE missioning. My raven doesn't survive lvl4's without a warp out now and then. Especially when I forget to change the hardeners. This is probably going to make it harder for me to lvl4's. But thats ok, because missions suck. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
DefJam101	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:06:00 - [125] lol you guys flying Ravens. At least caldari users could always fit WCS and fight at the same time, I cannot believe you actual have the nerve to whine about the nerf after how easy you guys had it before. ...although you probably could've just done a barrel roll. *** Your signature is too large. The limit is 24000 bytes. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/5980/resizefinalbs2.jpg
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:10:00 - [126] Originally by: Seth Allasatre How did we get to page 5 and no one made the following suggestion? Fit a good active sensor booster to offset the penalty of the WCS. So, in essence, it will now cost a low AND a mid slot (and a little bit of cap) to use stabs. For the pilot who fits a single stab just to get away when the heat is too high, it'll be a minor inconvenience. One sensor booster per WCS won't make sense for those who fit a half rack, but that's a good thing. Actually if you read through the thread several people have pointed this out :)
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:12:00 - [127] /me parks his vagabond... this is a nerf to low sec people. I admit I use stabs on my vagabond, but nothing else. You're not going to get anyone in to low sec doing this. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:12:00 - [128] Originally by: Locke DieDrake I'm happy to see the WCS nerf. It's about damn time. Now, about bookmarks and logging out... My only concern is how it's going to affect PVE missioning. My raven doesn't survive lvl4's without a warp out now and then. Especially when I forget to change the hardeners. This is probably going to make it harder for me to lvl4's. But thats ok, because missions suck. Same advice I give corp mates who get scrammed now: Don't equip stabs... simply.... ... ... ... Blow up the Scrambler ships first.
Elianidd Farseeker	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:13:00 - [129] Originally by: sesanti Now WCS will only be used for transporting ships from one place to the other, and people will be forced to actually learn to play this game instead of whining and whining over the forums! Funny how quickly people are to make disparaging remarks about others just because a given change doesn't adversely affect THEIR playstyle. I wonder how many of these same people would be "whining" if CCP made a major nerf to something like jumpclones? (Which probably don't really play a major role in PvE.) Maybe something like taking a 25% hit to all skills used while in a clone because it's just a "cheap copy" of your real self? THEN who'd be whining? Just because YOU don't use a particular type of module or playstyle doesn't mean that doing so is not "actually learning to play". Lern2think-of-more-than-just-yourself.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:26:00 - [130] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 25/10/2006 19:26:37 Originally by: Ki An You can always chose your ship. Don't fly what you can't afford to loose. That is one of the most, if not THE most important rules of EVE. If you are moving a BS through low/no sec, fit stabs all you like, just don't expect to be able to fight off any attackers. Hence, perhaps making a few friends wouldn't be such a bad idea. Get them to escort you and your all set. /Ki Unless you have the ista change ship module you can't always chose the ship. You must use the ship appropriate for your mission and not too far away from the target area, whatever you are doing. I wouldn't use an hauler for mining or a barge for moving items. Afford to loose is not the same thing as find confortable to loose. Losing a BS, with insurance and all, I can buy one immediatly, even if probably with less good fittings. What I hate in this nerf is that the choice is between "forget to figth even a cruiser with a BS but be capable to run away from some warp scramblers" or "be capable to fight but incapable tu avoid gatecampers". And to reiterate it: in level 4 missions there are enemyes capable to scramble you. Nerfing the warp stabber as it was implemented mean increasing the ship loss in those mission by a large margin.
Evelgrivion Cohort. Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:35:00 - [131] If you want the single number one reason I am happy with this change: Stababond. »\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/ Its Cohort. with a C.
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:36:00 - [132] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker Just because YOU don't use a particular type of module or playstyle doesn't mean that doing so is not "actually learning to play". By playstyle you mean using an overpriced uninsurable ship that you can't afford to lose to go around ganking soft vunerable targets that can't fight back, then running away before anything with a proper PvP setup finds you and puts you in actual danger? My heart bleeds :P Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:40:00 - [133] Originally by: Venkul Mul Unless you have the ista change ship module you can't always chose the ship. You must use the ship appropriate for your mission and not too far away from the target area, whatever you are doing. I wouldn't use an hauler for mining or a barge for moving items. Afford to loose is not the same thing as find confortable to loose. Losing a BS, with insurance and all, I can buy one immediatly, even if probably with less good fittings. What I hate in this nerf is that the choice is between "forget to figth even a cruiser with a BS but be capable to run away from some warp scramblers" or "be capable to fight but incapable tu avoid gatecampers". And to reiterate it: in level 4 missions there are enemyes capable to scramble you. Nerfing the warp stabber as it was implemented mean increasing the ship loss in those mission by a large margin. What I meant was that when you undock in a ship, you put it at risk. Hence, you are choosing your ship as you undock. If you "don't feel comfortable" loosing a ship, you're better of not flying it at all. This might sound silly, but it is the way it is. This nerf is good exactly for the reasons you listed. Now you have to choose wether you want to fight or run already before undocking. It's as is should be. Too many times people agress only to half way through the fight whimp out and decide to make a run for it. Often they could get away due to excessive stab-use. Now, if you're out to fight, you'de better come well prepared, and be prepared to stick it out, win or loose. Makes it more interesting if you ask me. Transporting, mining and trading is not affected at all. You can put ECM on your hauler if you have to, but you'd do well to add a sensor booster as well then. No biggie. Mission running finally gets some risk involved, and people can't run lvl 4's solo in a raven with the lows filled with stabs anymore. More reason to gang up and hunt in groups -> Multiplayer game. Scrambling NPC's are nothing to worry about. Just pop them first and you'll be fine. PvP gets infinitely better with this nerf as there'll be no more chickening out of a fight half way through, and snipers can be caught by a group of less than 5 people. In short, there's nothing bad about this nerf at all. All hail teh nerf! /Ki
Elianidd Farseeker	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:12:00 - [134] Originally by: Irashi By playstyle you mean using an overpriced uninsurable ship that you can't afford to lose to go around ganking soft vunerable targets that can't fight back, then running away before anything with a proper PvP setup finds you and puts you in actual danger? My heart bleeds :P Nope. Actually I'm one of those "soft vulnerable targets" trying my best to be safe in as many ways as possible. I just think that there must be a better/different way for them to prevent what you've described without totally destroying the useability of WCS'es for us "soft vulnerable targets" (in PvE or avoiding PvP gankers.)
Trance Gemmini	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:57:00 - [135] This is a stupid and unnecessary nerf. If they plan to do this in Kali then they should move all Warp Scramblers into HIGH SLOTS where they belong. Now the only highsec dwellers that will be leaving highsec are those becoming pirates or travelling to 0.0 space. I suspect this will hurt Eve's subscription base.
Coran Ordus Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:24:00 - [136] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker Originally by: Irashi By playstyle you mean using an overpriced uninsurable ship that you can't afford to lose to go around ganking soft vunerable targets that can't fight back, then running away before anything with a proper PvP setup finds you and puts you in actual danger? My heart bleeds :P Nope. Actually I'm one of those "soft vulnerable targets" trying my best to be safe in as many ways as possible. I just think that there must be a better/different way for them to prevent what you've described without totally destroying the useability of WCS'es for us "soft vulnerable targets" (in PvE or avoiding PvP gankers.) It's great that you try to remain safe, but stabs are not required. You can survive quite well by using the other tools available to you. And sometimes, you will die. It's not that big a damn deal. If you couldn't, this would be the most boring game ever. You can still use them, they just now have penalties. WCS give you _too much_ saftey. To an unbalancing degree. And they are too useful for gate snipers. You now have to trade some effectiveness for saftey. An interesting decision to be made has been added. This is a Good Thing.
Sara Finn Amarr Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:32:00 - [137] Edited by: Sara Finn on 25/10/2006 21:34:15 The sensor booster 'solution' is a good one, but it is flawed for 2 reasons: 1. Sensor Boosters give diminishing returns for multiple mods. 2. Not every ship (i.e., T1 Barges) can mount a Sensor Booster due to already limited mid slots. For this to be an exact solution, the WCS penalty must also have a dimishing return effect for each additional module that is used. And I think that wouldn't defeat the 'nerf' either as the initial penalty is already pretty severe. And yes, I'm ignoring Tech2 modules. In addition, for these proposed changes to have little effect on miners, I'd also like to see these other changes implemented, which I don't think gives any real advantages to miners in the overall scheme of things: -- 0/+1/0 additional high/mid/low module slots to all mining barges (for sensor booster(s)). -- a 50% increase to the base targetting range of all mining barges (just to keep up with the WCS nerf). -- an increase to the signature radius of all asteroids (assuming that 'roids have sig radii, to keep up with the WCS nerf). -- a small increase to CPU and powergrid to all mining barges (to make the additional slot feasible).
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:15:00 - [138] Originally by: Sara Finn 2. Not every ship (i.e., T1 Barges) can mount a Sensor Booster due to already limited mid slots. Say what? All the t1 barges have one medslot. Put a Sensor Booster II there. Problem solved. Sure, that means you can't put anything else there, but that's the price you pay if you want safety. I'm too lazy to open up QuickFit, but it seems to me that 2 x wcs + sensor booster II should give you totally reasonable target ranges for mining. Sure, it's a bit slower to target, but that's a minor issue.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:20:00 - [139] I've said it before, and I'll say it again; The best news of 2006.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:28:00 - [140] I think the most reasonable fix for barges is to give them a boost to max targeting range.. And if people think that barges should have a wcs penalty too then boost only enough to give a 10km lock with 2 wcs fitted.. The 5km lock with 2 fitted is far to big a hit I think as even aligned a covetor still takes ages to warp away.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:52:00 - [141] Doesn't anyone just, y'know, monitor local? Why are you even near a belt when there's a hostile in the system? I really don't get why people want to wait until they're scrammed and half dead before they'll decide that maybe it's a good idea to move. Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win
Laocoon Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:54:00 - [142] Originally by: Fuujin Originally by: Kuolematon Yay for pirates! You deserve it. Now there will be even less people on lowsec and even less people will PvP! Cheers! Yay! Yatta! Your sig speaks volumes. lol qft - Lao Veto. Corp
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:59:00 - [143] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/10/2006 23:00:05 Originally by: Irashi Doesn't anyone just, y'know, monitor local? Why are you even near a belt when there's a hostile in the system? I really don't get why people want to wait until they're scrammed and half dead before they'll decide that maybe it's a good idea to move. Mining effeciancy for me.. If I warp to a SS every time someone pops up in local I'd never finish a cycle on my strips.. And if you plan you mining spot with care you can warp away everytime as long as you are aligned and ready to go.. I only mount WCS because sometimes an inty will get lucky and get to me before I can warp off.. Risk vs Reward.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Stratharn	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:05:00 - [144] I generally run with WCS simply because I detest 0.4 gatecamps, and can't be bothered. That WCS has been nerfed is a nuisance, since it's easy enough to fit a scrambler. I think it's too easy to stop a ship just at the moment. Maybe if they worked like jammers, and gave a chance of stopping a ship, rather than just... did? Rob http://www.chainblade.com/
sesanti Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:11:00 - [145] Edited by: sesanti on 25/10/2006 23:14:26 Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker Originally by: sesanti Now WCS will only be used for transporting ships from one place to the other, and people will be forced to actually learn to play this game instead of whining and whining over the forums! Funny how quickly people are to make disparaging remarks about others just because a given change doesn't adversely affect THEIR playstyle. I wonder how many of these same people would be "whining" if CCP made a major nerf to something like jumpclones? (Which probably don't really play a major role in PvE.) Maybe something like taking a 25% hit to all skills used while in a clone because it's just a "cheap copy" of your real self? THEN who'd be whining? Just because YOU don't use a particular type of module or playstyle doesn't mean that doing so is not "actually learning to play". Lern2think-of-more-than-just-yourself. No, but i won't be crying all over the forums because they change a feature i particularly... The DEVs move the game towards their vision, which is a non-consentual PVP universe. People have to LEARN that. So CRY ME A RIVER _______________________________________________ The ShadowMaster - <I am a guy... don't mind the portrait>
Grant Smith Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:23:00 - [146] The best news i've heard in a good while! Whetherit helps people populate 0.0 or not.... those who i do find probably won't escape! I can't wait for those pvp pansies to have to recontemplate their setups <3
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:24:00 - [147] fit some ECM bursts u will be fine
Dagda Dia	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:28:00 - [148] pirate whinners win again so sad Move along nothing to see here, yes I am a ALT Just portecting my main.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:29:00 - [149] Originally by: Dagda Dia pirate whinners win again so sad pirates wil lget boosters and rigs and stuff to rebalance their setups there are also a lot of bossts for pirates that peeps arent mentioning yet but .... it means an end to sir snipe a lot (ginger megs anyone) at 200km those pirates will need to take a risk and come in at about 100km to engage (risk versus reward factor just balanced out)
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:31:00 - [150] I see it as a global solution to fix one problem. It's a bit overkill, but... it will certainly help with sniper hunting. --- --- --- --- My Sig Is Not Too Big...
Grant Smith Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:32:00 - [151] Originally by: MysticNZ /me parks his vagabond... this is a nerf to low sec people. I admit I use stabs on my vagabond, but nothing else. You're not going to get anyone in to low sec doing this. oh and yea right :p i'm a pirate who doesn't use wcs, and never has. As i don't use em it just makes me happy :)
Fanjita	Posted - 2006.10.26 00:27:00 - [152] if you have to fit a wcs to do missions then you seriously shouldnt be doing missions
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.10.26 00:57:00 - [153] Originally by: Fanjita if you have to fit a wcs to do missions then you seriously shouldnt be doing missions Sometimes it's not about THE mission... it's about where the mission is. Lots of people have completely different setups for running missions and PvP. Perhaps a person just doesn't want to get caught in an Extravaganza mission in low-sec with their pants down. --- --- --- --- My Sig Is Not Too Big...
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.10.26 01:06:00 - [154] Originally by: spurious signal This is a good solution for 0.0 and pvp corps. But this is a huge nerf for low-sec mission running. I think the low-sec pirates gloating about this will be hugely disappointed when all their targets simply disappear and move to high-sec. This will effectively extend the borders of 0.0 right up to the edge of 0.5 - prepare to see high-sec mission systems become massively overcrowded (Motsu anyone?) and low-sec systems become as barren as 99% of 0.0 is. :( --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.10.26 01:09:00 - [155] Originally by: Ta chaina Yup your right all the crying you and all the others did worked. So grats to you and the rest of the winers. Hey here is a thought start crying for a I win button next and see how long it takes to get one I never cried for a nerf but it's nice to see the pond scum vaccuumed up. Betcha we see a lot less invulnerable vagabonds out in 0.0, now that they can't fit 3 wcs without getting popped before they can get a lock. Lets see how many noobs in boilerplate pwnmobiles we have now, shall we, hmmm? Egads, stababond pilots have to learn how to fit a ship now !!! Oh noze, warp scramblers will actually work against combat ships now I'd classify it as the removal of an I-Win button, not a nerf. Anyone that doesn't is a whiner. Combat ships should be fitted to fight, not run. One vaga pilot should not be able to take on an 8 person camp and still get away. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.26 01:14:00 - [156] Now we just need HAC prices have to drop enough so that people can afford to fly and lose them in combat :) It's not just vagabonds that get packed with stabs. Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win

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