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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.25 08:12:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Luke Pubcrawler on 25/10/2006 08:17:56
Originally by: Okkie2 About the low sec mission runners, isn't it possible to fit a few stabs to be able to get in and out of the system pretty safely while disabling them while running the mission ? Or does the penalty also work when the module is disabled ? This will also work to get in and out of enemy territory while still being able to fight decently when you are in the system you want to be.
Theoreticaly, but remember you need 75% cap charge to activate a module. So if I am ratting or missioning with the stab off and a pirate scans me or visits my belt then I have a problem. Even worse if I do switch it on but fail to escape then what little chance I had that my PvE fitted ship could fight his PvP one has been removed by the nerf.
I don't plan to spend time in lowsec without stabs and with stabs I can't do what I want to do there. End result is I won't be going to lowsec anymore and I don't expect I am the only one who feels that way.
I am sure the pirates ill be happy on their own in lowsec, they can always shoot at each other.
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DOGNOSH
Minmatar SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:03:00 -
[32]
Sorry guys,hardly ever use WCS and not at home at the moment but can someone explain the differences between the current and the new proposed WCS in kali ?
mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus Xorus has been webbified - DOGNOSH
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:04:00 -
[33]
It's pretty much the perfect nerf. ----------
IBTL \o/ |
Hardin
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:11:00 -
[34]
This is a great change.
TBH those carebears whining about WCS should realise that 'pirates & griefers' are often the greatest users of WCS. This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy.
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spurious signal
Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hardin This change will make many pirate hunters very very happy.
This is very true.
I honestly think that the people who find this nerf the most difficult are going to be the pirates. Their targets in low-sec are going to dry up and they will no longer be able to escape those of us who consider themselves anti-pirate
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Infinity Ziona
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:26:00 -
[36]
This is an all round awesome change. Now next time someone whines about how invulnerable snipers are we can verbally kick their heads in.
The Privateering Life |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:43:00 -
[37]
Dangerous this change is. It will impact everyone from miners, haulers, to snipers, pirates, mission runners and plex runners. In effect it will impact more styles of play than any other change presented in Kali.
It has the potential to have a ruinous effect on the games subscriptions.
The penalty seems to much. It will have dramatic impact upon several styles of play. Haulers will be impacted the least I think, miners as well ( I don't know many barges that mount WCS, heck the strippers, and a mining upgrade will eat up all your CPU ).
Most haulers go for increased cargo capacity over WCS, in most situations.
Plex Runners and Mission runners will probably be impacted a great deal, many plex and mission runners fit at least 1 WCS. The reason is that without one if you get dropped by the game in a plex or on high level missions you're going to be in a pod when you come back in. The 1 WCS lets you escape that fate without much effect, in the new system though you are going to have some severe penalties for mounting even the one, which is needed primarily due to server instabilities.
Snipers will be the most effected, no longer will a sniper be able to fit all WCS in their lows and expect to snipe. This in a way is good, no more sniping outside the range of the gate guns....
However many people are going to be effected and that's where the possibility for disaster rises.
I and many of my friends are concerned that Kali might alter gameplay so much that we see a drastic drop in subscriptions. Now the WCS change alone and the Inertial Stab change are probably not enough by themselves but there are many other game aspects that are changing that are going to affect a lot of people.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: spurious signal I honestly think that the people who find this nerf the most difficult are going to be the pirates. Their targets in low-sec are going to dry up and they will no longer be able to escape those of us who consider themselves anti-pirate
Of course they will, because when someone starts putting up a fight now, they won't be able to warp off while smack talking.
For anyone else, it's still business as usual. Travelling? Fit WCS. Reach destination. Dock. Refit.
Anyone who's going to boycot lowsec/0.0-sec because of the WCS changes is under a false impression that they give any real security. Sooner or later, someone with enough friends to cancel all your WCS will jump in next to you and blow you to kingdom come; change or no change.
The clueless will either cower under their beds, or lose ships left and right and then come on the forums and threaten to quit EVE. But with any luck, a handful of people will try to figure out how to use things like the map, scanner and local intelligence-gathering channels. Sooner or later, they'll realize that the risk isn't all that great if you make even the smallest attempt at staying safe, and the game will be a better place for it.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Soraya Silvermoon
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.10.25 09:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: chromer one hehe RA and others will finally loose their frigates... and wcs are put to ships they belong.. haulers and wimp ships
Well.. Haulers are in fact more vulnerable now..
Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, biggest cap battery I can fit. 3 warpcore stabs.
All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not.
Anyway I dont care. I didnt see the point int he warp core nerf anyway. I know I certainly didnt want the drawback with less damage/grid/cap unless I knew I was going to engage a bigger ship that had a disrupter and only acted as bait fort he rest of the enemy fleet.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, 1mn mwd 3 warpcore stabs.
All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not.
Ummm what do sensor boosters and lock time have to do with ninja hauling and getting away from hostiles? Your not wanting to fight just warp the heck away..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
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Sophia Germain
Gallente Fluxion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:27:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/10/2006 10:30:02
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Well.. Haulers are in fact more vulnerable now..
Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, 1mn mwd 3 warpcore stabs.
All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not.
Anyway I dont care. I didnt see the point int he warp core nerf anyway. I know I certainly didnt want the drawback with less damage/grid/cap unless I knew I was going to engage a bigger ship that had a disrupter and only acted as bait fort he rest of the enemy fleet.
How about learning to fly a ship suited for that role, a blockade runner? You get +2 extra warp strength without sacrificing a single low slot for a warpcore stabilizer. This way you got "stabs" on by default and can still fit some EW and/or tank if you feel like it. You can't ask for a perfect hauling solution with the time it takes to train to fly a basic industrial ship. If you want better ninja running capabilities, you have to specilize in it.
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King Fury
Caldari New Justice
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:34:00 -
[42]
I thought the wcs nerf only applied to ships that had guns in there hi slots?
Also there are so many counters for wcs in 0.0 (bubbles and dictors), the nerf seems unnecessary in my opinion.
Instead of people whining about wcs on the forums more people will be whining about CTRL q
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Okkie2
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:42:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Okkie2 on 25/10/2006 10:45:13
Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler Edited by: Luke Pubcrawler on 25/10/2006 08:17:56 Theoreticaly, but remember you need 75% cap charge to activate a module. So if I am ratting or missioning with the stab off and a pirate scans me or visits my belt then I have a problem. Even worse if I do switch it on but fail to escape then what little chance I had that my PvE fitted ship could fight his PvP one has been removed by the nerf.
Actually i wasn't thinking of turning it on when a pirat jumps in, but use it as a way to enter and leave the system your mission is in. Activating it after a pirat has scanned you will not work because it uses 50-75% of your cap AND your cap must be above 95%
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Ummm what do sensor boosters and lock time have to do with ninja hauling and getting away from hostiles? Your not wanting to fight just warp the heck away..
If he got jumped by a pirate his ship will probably not warp away quickly enough so he needs the stabs to save him. If the pirate has more warpscramblers as he has stabs you need to break his lock and that's what the midslots are used for.
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Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:45:00 -
[44]
This is an good change to warp core stabs. The main problem was them being used in combat situations. Equiped on certain ships they became a joke. Now you can still use them but suffer the consequences. Risk vs Reward, as it should be.
This change has no effect on travelling (where I've always prefered nano's anyway).
The joys of alliance warfare... |
Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 25/10/2006 09:59:38
Originally by: chromer one hehe RA and others will finally loose their frigates... and wcs are put to ships they belong.. haulers and wimp ships
Well.. Haulers are in fact more vulnerable now..
Take badger for instance. My usual Setup for doing sneaky stuff in enemy space: Prototype cloack, (civ gatling or nos or something stupid) 2 x sensorbooster II, shield booster. 2 multispec, 1mn mwd 3 warpcore stabs.
All my midslot defence is gone. Becasue 2 sensorboosters wount cut it anymore :D I need 5. This setup used to be excellent for ninja hauling in enemy territory. And lets face it it cant be made up for with shield extenders n stuff because in the end its about if you can warp away or not.
Multispecs are being nerfed on non-ECM ships anyway so even without the WCS nerf your midslots defence would need a refit.
The joys of alliance warfare... |
Dreamdancer
Minmatar Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Miss Overlord ginger megs will be unhappy
lol was thinking the samething myself. So much for him being the uber wimp and sitting 150 km off the Hag gate aligned with all his lows filled with stabs shooting noob ships.
Him and all snipers will have to stop using stabs to protect themselves. Maybe this will cut into sniping. Doubt it, but we can hope.
Honestly no prob with gate campers. Those that sit at the gate, within range of the guns. Just have no respect for the cowardly snipers that kill noobs and think they're cool, but don't even have the cohonies to fly up and loot cans from hualers they pop cause it would require getting close enough for someone to attack them.
Plus as anyone will tell ya. Stabs have no place in true pvp. They belong on haulers and such ships that are trying to avoid getting killed.
We are recruiting! |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:50:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/10/2006 10:52:10
Originally by: Okkie2 If he got jumped by a pirate his ship will probably not warp away quickly enough so he needs the stabs to save him. If the pirate has more warpscramblers as he has stabs you need to break his lock and that's what the midslots are used for.
Thats a really thin line of defense especially with the ecm nerf as jammers are chance based and any pvp ship worth its salt will frag that badger well before it can be jammed.. All extenders and wcs still seem to me the best fir for non blockade runner haulers..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Tas Devil
JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:53:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tas Devil on 25/10/2006 10:53:28
Originally by: Sales Merchant This is likely to hurt Ginger Magician more than anyone else in EVE tbh
So true ... this is actually a Ginger Magician nerf not a wcs nerf... Tas
The best Laugh ever ... Credit goes to Killer8 for this ! This includes bad language... so beware |
Verone
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:02:00 -
[49]
This news Just in!
Veto have released this official response regarding the nerf of Warp Core Stabiliers :
Quote:
VETO OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
OLolOLolOLOLolololOloLolOloLl0l0l0lL0l0l0lL0l0l0l0l0lololol
YESSSSSSSSS!!11one YESYESYESYESYESYESYESSSYESYESYESYESYESYESYEEESSSSS!!!11
WINZ0000000000000R.
Thank you for your attention.
WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
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NestcePas
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:04:00 -
[50]
Obviously I'm missing something here. Sig radiusbonus of -50 %, I would think this is good for the target? So why would they leave low-sec and 0.0? I would think ppl would be more willing to risk going there?
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: King Fury I thought the wcs nerf only applied to ships that had guns in there hi slots?
Also there are so many counters for wcs in 0.0 (bubbles and dictors), the nerf seems unnecessary in my opinion.
Instead of people whining about wcs on the forums more people will be whining about CTRL q
IMO this will seriously decrease the price of vagabonds
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Sean Dillon
Caldari Privateers
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:22:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead.
If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die.
They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage.
I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that.
If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:25:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/10/2006 11:25:39 \o give my regards to the wow players plz..
And seriously.. any mission runner worth a shi*znit will never ever lose his ship to scramming mission rats..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
McBrite
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:26:00 -
[54]
NICE!!!
Finally no more "wannabe-pirates" that attack you, realize they can't take you by a long shot and warp off even-though you have them scrambled!
Hurray for real pirates! ;)
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Frater Perdurabo
The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:26:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sean Dillon Edited by: Sean Dillon on 25/10/2006 11:24:50 This seriously sucks for combat, every time u get a 2v1 ur dead.
If u enter a lvl 4 without WCS ur asgood as dead, if ur tank dies and no way to get out scrambling rats u die.
They don't seem to have any brains at CCP, WCS needed nerfing but not so to make combat completely worthless whenever u fit just even one. It even encourage blobage and gankage.
I admit I use WCS very often, but just for tactical reasons a BS is worthless when it gets trapped by an assault frigates thats why I use WCS to prevent that and get away. This nerf really sucks for situations like that.
If this nerf make it through I am cancelling my subscrition. What is the point of this if it makes me die in a lvl 4 because I can't get out like it used to be for 3 years now.
Can i have your stuff
(Always wanted to say that) ----------------------------------- Please note that my response to this thread is probably a result of boredom, and its very likely that i dont care, but am posting in an attempt to wind someone up |
Sara Finn
Amarr Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:28:00 -
[56]
The biggest downside to this change (and thankfully someone has mentioned it on the test forum) is for the miners in low security, especially barge pilots.
The mining barges are already so restricted with everything being so small on them (small amount of mod slots, small cap, small targetting range, etc.) that if you equip 1 WCS on a Covetor now, you've effectively made your targetting range less than the max range of a Strip Miner. With 2 WCS's equipped, you have to be on top of the 'roid to mine the thing.
For mining Battleships or Cruisers (and yes, there are still people that use these), targetting range isn't too much of a problem, but instead, it's locking time. I usually mine in low security with a 'Geddon outfitted with 2 WCS's (those things have saved my ship more than once) and locking time on a 'roid was long before.
Don't get me wrong, I was in favour of changing the WCS as long as the nerfs were only against combat ships and not haulers and miners. It seems like CCP got at least half of it right. But it seems easy enough to fix with a doubling the max range of the barges and somehow making 'roids quicker to lock-on to.
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Einheriar Ulrich
Minmatar Black Reign Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:29:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Budz Fergie Hahahaha!!!!
I foresee a lot of vagabonds being parked or dying very quickly now.
Thats because dont know how to use them right
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Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: NestcePas Obviously I'm missing something here. Sig radiusbonus of -50 %, I would think this is good for the target? So why would they leave low-sec and 0.0? I would think ppl would be more willing to risk going there?
It's not a -50% sig bonus. It's a -50% scan resolution 'bonus'. Scan resolution affects your lock time, the higher the stat the quicker the lock.
The joys of alliance warfare... |
Kye Do'lan
Gallente The Whitesands Consortium
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:34:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Kye Do''lan on 25/10/2006 11:35:01
Originally by: Trahern Twrgadarn Woohoo, all we need now is a solution to station/gate hugging and we may have worthwhile pvp.
lets nerfbat this shower of s**te too
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Swamp Ziro
EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:37:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 25/10/2006 11:39:53
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: spurious signal This will effectively extend the borders of 0.0 right up to the edge of 0.5 - prepare to see high-sec mission systems become massively overcrowded (Motsu anyone?) and low-sec systems become as barren as 99% of 0.0 is.
I don't think that there is a huge low-security mission running crowd to begin with.
People who were running missions in low-sec will simply continue to do so.
Ginger's out of business, tho. Poor SOB.
QFFT. If I'm running missions in low sec, it means I dont NEED WCS to begin with, so please, don't argue my side of the issue, because I'm perfectly fine with the changes. If you want to be safe, don't undock.
EDIT: To the original quote, are you as big a coward as your post shows? Low sec is a cakewalk for chrissakes, and hopefully, all the cowards will pack and go to highsec, less lag for all of us.
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