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What is going on with LOCAL????

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Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 25/10/2006 20:09:22 Originally by: Kapitanleutnant Mei local with the new carebear feature swill be just the same in lowsec /0.0 but its going to ruin empire PVP wars were you couldn't reallisticaly check everyone before :(.. at least it will until factional warfare Nonsense. Empire Wars everyone just added the enemy corp members to their buddy list anyway. Just lets us do the same functionality without having gigantic lagtastic buddy lists. These new features don't really give us any functionality we didn't ALREADY have... functionality that we had to cause LAG to get. Now we get the functionality we obviously needed (because we used it) without having to lag the servers to do it. Anything that reduces lag = good thing. For you folks who want to get rid of local altogether.... if it ever happened lowsec would become a ghost town. Even 0.0 would empty out. I love 0.0... I don't mind lowsec. That said... if ya'll got your way I might consider moving back to highsec. Local is a pretty vital tool. Not just for detecting danger but also for finding a fight.
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Razin on 25/10/2006 20:22:13 Originally by: Irashi Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local Not sure why you think there should be such easy and automatic access to this type of information. Devs have stated several times that Local was never meant to be an intel tool and that itÆll get nerfed as soon as new scanning features come in and prove useful. Local should and will eventually be replaced by better system scanning. ...
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Irashi Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local Not sure why you think there should be such easy and automatic access to this type of information. Devs have stated several times that Local was never meant to be and an intel tool and that itÆll get nerfed as soon as new scanning features come in and prove useful. Local should and will eventually be replaced by better system scanning. True but Until it does people need to quit screaming for it to be removed.
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:15:00 - [34] omg no that change is going to make me grumpy for a year You Will Cry My Name
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:16:00 - [35] yes stealth and being sneaky about stuff would make things interesting. And yes pvpers use local to check for enemies. then again if you jump into a system with an npcer in in 0,0 he simply hit ctrl-q I would not have voted for it a year ago but the current amount of ppl per sys in 0,0 makes it viable. Allso it would make warfare a bit more realistic and you`d get more engagements becaseu ppl would not know what they were going to get on top of them. Along with hp increase so ppl actually have time to come to rescue I can only see it as a good thing to remove it.
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:03:00 - [36] I think local needs to be removed. Why? Because the game isn't as fun as it could be if I'm sitting in a freighter and our scouts report back that they have checked local and the next 2 systems in the route are 100% safe. Scouts don't say they _think_ a system is safe, they say that they _know_ a system is safe. That strikes me as fundamentally flawed. Especially when a 15 second old character can do that scouting with 100% efficency.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Kapitanleutnant Mei local with the new carebear feature swill be just the same in lowsec /0.0 but its going to ruin empire PVP wars were you couldn't reallisticaly check everyone before :(.. at least it will until factional warfare Ummm, what? Have you actually been in an Empire war? Everyone was already doing this with buddy lists, it's SOP the moment you get a wardec. This changes very little, just removes some manual hassle and reduces server load.
Lily Savage CryoTech	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:25:00 - [38] Um, with the new local, I presume that you'll still need to do a "show info" on an unknown "!" toon before the sec status and red/blue FoF info shows (auto-load would be a ***** if a blob jumped into system)? So all this change really does is stop you having to have a list of hostile "buddies"?
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:08:00 - [39] Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:10:02 Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:09:17 The day we lose local is the last day any of us will make a friend.. IsnÆt that sad? What about the poor newbies who havenÆt already got friends? Will no one think of the poor newbies? Ok so we could just lose local in 0.0 and keep it in empire, but are those poor souls who live out in deep space to be driven mad by the space sickness? To go insane with only their own ravings for company? Say NO to anti-social behaviour kids. If people with guns are forced to hang around the gates on popular trade roots just to meet new and interesting people to talk with things are going to go down hill very quickly. You thought gate camps were bad when they were shooting at you, wait till they are waiting to tell you about their hernia operation.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:11:00 - [40] If local was nerfed: Negatives: grief^h^h^h^h^h pierats would just go to low sec and 0.0 systems with stations/outposts and warp around the belts until they found a npc'er or miner ... ego boosting fun for the pierat, killed a miner \o/, wow, what a challenge No-one would interact anymore, except for alliance/corp, which could make EVE really boring (depending on corp or alliance size) 0.0 would become a ghost town Positives: No more smack er, thats it

Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:11:00 - [41] Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 25/10/2006 23:11:44 bah, double post
Havelcek Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:18:00 - [42] This is one of my personal happiest changes in Kali because the right-click ShowInfo thing is just ridiculously laggy. Also, the new spellchecker built into Firefox 2.0 roxxors.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:19:00 - [43] hehe .... and maybe it will stop all of those less than interesting convo's ... "uh, was doing a show info and I ...er.... bye"
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Havelcek Also, the new spellchecker built into Firefox 2.0 roxxors. QFT It's great flying Amarr, ain't it?
Kaosaur Dark Nebula Gallente Division Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Take that, combine it with drones that can move up to two systems away from you, telling you what it sees within X range, and you have yourself one damned awesome idea. (Make it be an expensive, high rank drone skill, and you can only control 1 and make it like 10-15m3) Imagine how much less would be going on in the game without everyone's alt scouts running around everywhere.
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Temo Jick Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:10:02 Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:09:17 The day we lose local is the last day any of us will make a friend.. IsnÆt that sad? What about the poor newbies who havenÆt already got friends? Will no one think of the poor newbies? Ok so we could just lose local in 0.0 and keep it in empire, but are those poor souls who live out in deep space to be driven mad by the space sickness? To go insane with only their own ravings for company? Say NO to anti-social behaviour kids. If people with guns are forced to hang around the gates on popular trade roots just to meet new and interesting people to talk with things are going to go down hill very quickly. You thought gate camps were bad when they were shooting at you, wait till they are waiting to tell you about their hernia operation. There are all kinds of other preset chat channels in the game to allow you to keep meeting interesting people. If you don't like those you can create your own. Additionally, nerfing Local doesnÆt have to mean completely losing it. All it means is that you donÆt show up in it until you use it to communicate. ...
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:33:00 - [47] How's about instead of Local chat we get constellation chat? Not nearly as much of an intel tool and still allows plenty of banter. I personally would like to see local nerfed to some degree but not removed completely... Either give us constellation chat or keep local but only make yourself 'visible' if you speak. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:37:00 - [48] Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local If an alliance is so disorganized or lazy that they cant have a small patrol at chokepoints to check for hostiles then they dont deserve to have secure space. If you only had 100 people online on a constant basis in alliance, each would only need to sit at a gate for 14.4 minutes per day to keep a constant guard up for that gate. It just comes down to plain laziness and wanting to take so much space that it difficult to defend it all with the numbers claiming. The Privateering Life
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:39:00 - [49] this is a good thing i think - im with infinity on this seeing hostiles and also -10 and -5 as well as friendlies in local is all round a good anti lag move Also ive noticed some new CEO and other tools CCP has brought in looking interesting
loony thezoon	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local If an alliance is so disorganized or lazy that they cant have a small patrol at chokepoints to check for hostiles then they dont deserve to have secure space. If you only had 100 people online on a constant basis in alliance, each would only need to sit at a gate for 14.4 minutes per day to keep a constant guard up for that gate. It just comes down to plain laziness and wanting to take so much space that it difficult to defend it all with the numbers claiming. So a 2 man gatecamp will defend against a 50 man attacking fleet? Then when you gather your forces to kill the 50 man fleet, you can still watch all the entry points? Think it through.

Haas Tabris	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Or region... But either way, that would make it a ton more easy to say hi to someone you know, and yet not give away your exact position. Rock on! Oh and, Is-something, love the sig!!
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.26 00:06:00 - [52] Edited by: Temo Jick on 26/10/2006 00:17:04 Originally by: Razin Originally by: Temo Jick Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:10:02 Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:09:17 The day we lose local is the last day any of us will make a friend.. IsnÆt that sad? What about the poor newbies who havenÆt already got friends? Will no one think of the poor newbies? Ok so we could just lose local in 0.0 and keep it in empire, but are those poor souls who live out in deep space to be driven mad by the space sickness? To go insane with only their own ravings for company? Say NO to anti-social behaviour kids. If people with guns are forced to hang around the gates on popular trade roots just to meet new and interesting people to talk with things are going to go down hill very quickly. You thought gate camps were bad when they were shooting at you, wait till they are waiting to tell you about their hernia operation. There are all kinds of other preset chat channels in the game to allow you to keep meeting interesting people. If you don't like those you can create your own. Additionally, nerfing Local doesnÆt have to mean completely losing it. All it means is that you donÆt show up in it until you use it to communicate. Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, IÆm not going to make up any statistics to support it, and my opinion may not mean much to any one other then myself. In fact you should all probably just not bother reading this at all ^.^ But: As a born pessimist I do not believe the majority of us who play MMO games are half as outgoing (I mean that in the sense that we donÆt seek out strangers to engage in conversation) as we would like to be, and as we really need to be to make games like eve fun. Without the social content many of the grinding repetitive activates which keep the economy of eve going would, grind slowly to a halt simply because I know I at least need the distraction of conversation to keep grinding missions hauling and mining from being to boring to bare. Yes other channels do exist, and even someone with as few outgoing genes as myself have joined one or two. But I have joined them because people I would not have met if not for local prompted me to do so. I cant say I wouldnÆt have joined my corp. if not for local as I was recruited via eve-mail when still a newbie myself. However if not for local the person doing the recruiting would have had to stay at a gate or a station and check peoples info as they passed. If they had not been at the particular gate or station I happened to be using and their had been no local I wouldnÆt just be without a corp today. I wouldnÆt even be playing eve. People like me join up for the ships and the galaxy and the battles, but they stay for the good company and quality of conversation, which believe some one who has played a lot of mmos, Eve has in grater abundance then any other. Local is important as a channel that the anti-social player, maybe the player new to mmos canÆt close. Without it a lot less people capable of joining us in the eve-e-verse and enriching it with their company, good hummer and dare I say, ships to shoot at, would try eve and leave us after a short time. Without local we will only see more gate camps, which I donÆt think many people want. The solo pirates out in 0.0 would only find it harder to find targets then they do already. The people who stand to benefit from this the most are the ones speaking out against it, Ok so I might not know when a hostile is in the system so I wont be able to safe spot right away. But so long as they donÆt know IÆm there either my chances of getting blown up have decreased. Why? Because if that hostile were looking for targets he would be sitting at a gate some where near a low sec where he would have the best chance of actually finding a target.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.26 05:38:00 - [53] Originally by: loony thezoon Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local If an alliance is so disorganized or lazy that they cant have a small patrol at chokepoints to check for hostiles then they dont deserve to have secure space. If you only had 100 people online on a constant basis in alliance, each would only need to sit at a gate for 14.4 minutes per day to keep a constant guard up for that gate. It just comes down to plain laziness and wanting to take so much space that it difficult to defend it all with the numbers claiming. So a 2 man gatecamp will defend against a 50 man attacking fleet? Then when you gather your forces to kill the 50 man fleet, you can still watch all the entry points? Think it through. Read the post I quoted. It was addressing the detection of a covert ops ship not a 50 man fleet. Now you think it through. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP and the server to do all the scouting for you and start doing it yourself. Until you do, not many people (other then your alliance mates) are going to feel very sorry that you 'cannot' protect those hundred or so systems you have 'claimed' as your own. Not even a covert ops can jump through a gate cloaked and even if it could you would still see the activation go off. The Privateering Life
mavs	Posted - 2006.10.26 06:02:00 - [54] Well as a person who lives in oo i think the new local rocks
kessah Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:12:00 - [55] high sec mercenary's wet dream, i can never be arsed adding a whole corp to a buddy list so this is a brilliant addition. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate 2
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:25:00 - [56] The reducing lag argument struck me as odd. While people will be generating less show info requests on targets now the client itself will be constantly requesting them for everyone in a system (to get the info needed to show standings) and doing it again everytime somone new enters a system. You imagine all that happening in systems like Jita and I suspect you're going to see more lag, not less (given not everyone is going to show info on everyone else). Personally I'm firmly in the no local in 0.0 group, won't bother repeating the arguments why as they've been stated a dozen times over in past threads. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:40:00 - [57] Local annoys me. I'm keeping my multi-thousand person buddy lists. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:54:00 - [58] Well I personally like local as it is cause it allows you to evade fights you wouldnt want to do and after all this is a game which has to make FUN. I still understand the argument that it is an unfair advantage for no real efford. What I think would be a fair inbetween is that you leave local as it is (or will be with the new features in kali) but make it optional. so basically you either have the info of local and can chat and show up immediatelly OR you fly totally blind. I havent pirated yet but I gues it would be utterly boring to cruiser around 30 belts only to then find out that you are the only one in systhem. you can apply this 1 to 1 to 0.0 and empire wars. So if you remove/semi remove local there has to be some way to get the same info but with a bit more work. many ppl talked about a probe or drone. I'd like a probe more cause it can be fited to every ship (other than shuttle and freighter) if you want (and sacrify that high-slot and maybe lows for cpu). A drone would either be no sacrificy for dedidaceted (or semi dedicated) drone ships (take 25m¦ of that domi and it just laughs) or unuseable for others. What I think should also be implemented is a warning that tells you when you have been scanned (maybe switchable so it doesnt show if it was a blue). If the ships in EVE can detect things 14AU away in a few secs they can also detect the scanners.
Gardavil Gallente Chaotic Navigation	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local OMG nonononono wrong direction, turn around and go the OTHER way the players need Local nerfed, not gussied up and made to function like a BILLBOARD _____________________________________________ I you can read this I am in your optimal. ....no...wait...you are in my optimal....oh nevermind...
Aterna Minmatar M'8'S	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:50:00 - [60] I read something by a dev along the lines of local changing to constellation chat. Something about the devs being unhappy with how Local is only being used for intel and not for communication. Local chat holds no advantage for one person over another, each person in the channel has the ability to look at it, click show info on unknowns and find out if they are a potential hostile to be dealt with or avoided. Saying that it gives an advantage is completely false, as it works equally well with all parties in the channel. Where it is abused is through newb corp alts spread through surrounding systems acting as early warning systems. My corporation encounters them all the time while on pvp ops in low-sec empire. Changing local to constellation with the current scan system would cause a very large increase in the amount of non-consentual pvp between pirates, gankers, and carebears/mission runners. I haven't checked out the new scan system on Singularity, so until someone posts an in-depth on its effectiveness at keeping tabs on people in system, I will bet that local will not change. The local chat won't disappear, most likely it will become constellation chat. At least with constellation chat you have a large pool of people to talk to, without fear of giving away intel (unless you're dumb enough to go spouting off about your latest kill and what you flew while doing it). - - -



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