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What is going on with LOCAL????

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Natasha Kerensky The Company Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:37:00 - [1] Originally by: TomB Sigfried The Scout is doing patrols in his alliance controlled space, he flies between bottleneck systems and scans for ships. He finds a fleet of enemies... He warps there in his covert ops but forgets to activate his covert ops cloaking device and gets instantly killed by flying oversized egos. I cant help but speculate that the LOCAL channel is going to change in KALI. Otherwise, there would really be no reason to do system scans like the above story states! WHATS GOING ON? THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME!!
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:43:00 - [2] Edited by: MECTO on 25/10/2006 17:43:32 local is absolute and immense most useful cheat in eve using wise it can iverdue all it needs to be removed totaly - while u can seek invisible ships with recon Launcher - therese no need for local goddamit! REMOVE IT OR GRAPPLE WITH NERF BAT Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:43:00 - [3] TomB is alive? :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:46:00 - [4] This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Natasha Kerensky Originally by: TomB Sigfried The Scout is doing patrols in his alliance controlled space, he flies between bottleneck systems and scans for ships. He finds a fleet of enemies... He warps there in his covert ops but forgets to activate his covert ops cloaking device and gets instantly killed by flying oversized egos. I cant help but speculate that the LOCAL channel is going to change in KALI. Otherwise, there would really be no reason to do system scans like the above story states! WHATS GOING ON? THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME!! Silly mortal. The fiction has no relation to the game. All kinds of things could be infered from the backstory and ongoing fiction, but alas, the two are not actually related. Don't try and pull meaning from it. It's just a story. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Zeonos Hauler	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:54:00 - [7] make local. so your character first show "if" you type something in it :)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:54:00 - [8] Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Everybody was checking that info manually anyway, so there is no difference. Only better server performance. I like it... :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Everybody was checking that info manually anyway, so there is no difference. Only better server performance. I like it... :) not ever1 don't lie - caldari don't checkin' Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Niirun Nova Defense Industries	Posted - 2006.10.25 17:56:00 - [10] wouldnt' it be even less work on the server to remove it ?
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:00:00 - [11] Wish they'd let us have a setting where the list of people in the channel is shown as text only, no portraits. It would compress it vertically a bit. Matter of fact, they could make it look like the overview.
Darkrogue Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Natasha Kerensky Originally by: TomB Sigfried The Scout is doing patrols in his alliance controlled space, he flies between bottleneck systems and scans for ships. He finds a fleet of enemies... He warps there in his covert ops but forgets to activate his covert ops cloaking device and gets instantly killed by flying oversized egos. I cant help but speculate that the LOCAL channel is going to change in KALI. Otherwise, there would really be no reason to do system scans like the above story states! WHATS GOING ON? THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME!! I dont know. But I like your name. Battletech ftw!
Jack Brimstone Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:09:00 - [13] I have to say, having seen it, I really like it. I know that there is a body of opinion that is pro-local removal, and it is a respectable argument, but not one I share. The reasons for the change probably twofold, both convenience and server performance, people in an empire war are likely to be checking this info anyway and it largely kills the need for a huge "buddylist of non-buddies". Whilst knowing little about the inner workings of eve, I would hazard a guess that people clicking "show info" on 150+ people in busy systems probably query (as in db-query) a lot more data than they actually need. I daresay that people who fail to pay attention to local, will still do so, so I don't anticipate any great changes other than the aforementioned. -------------------------------------------------
JoCool Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:13:00 - [14] Local needs to be completely removed. It takes all the dice out of the game! _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool
Blue Rider Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:26:00 - [15] I really like it. I would have been happy with local removed all together or this. Trying to look up info on each person in local and having to wait for the image, employment history, etc to load was just no good.
Artthana Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Blue Rider I really like it. I would have been happy with local removed all together or this. Trying to look up info on each person in local and having to wait for the image, employment history, etc to load was just no good. Yay possible lag reduction
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:43:00 - [17] Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:52:00 - [18] Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Everybody was checking that info manually anyway, so there is no difference. Only better server performance. I like it... :) not ever1 don't lie - caldari don't checkin' chuckles Ok everyone with half a brain was already checking it. Which means everyone who's spent more than 3 hours in 0.0 or lowsec. Which means a crapload of players. Which means adding this will vastly reduce the info requests going on which will hopefully reduce server lag. All it means is we get the same info we already did without having to constantly spam the server with 'info' requests. I love it. <3 CCP
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.10.25 18:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. I'm pretty sure that having all these drones from all these different corps alliances all over the the galaxay, would lag the entire system. Corps would have sensors in every system they go into, in the case of a WarDec. Can you think of how many sensors would be in Jita?!? Or would that be even worse than local
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:01:00 - [20] Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Everybody was checking that info manually anyway, so there is no difference. Only better server performance. I like it... :) not ever1 don't lie - caldari don't checkin' Quite your whining you got your WCS fix afterall this local change just gives something for the non pvp person and the pvp hunter ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:07:00 - [21] That post needs fixing :/ Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon I'm pretty sure that having all these drones from all these different corps alliances all over the the galaxay, would lag the entire system. Corps would have sensors in every system they go into, in the case of a WarDec. Can you think of how many sensors would be in Jita?!? Then they can come with some restrictions. for example they could deactivate or wander off unless you visit them every 3 days or so, can't use them in high sec, can't deploy more than 5, can't deploy more than one per system, must be at least 100km from stations and gates, high skill requirements, costly... There's loads of ways you could dream up to make sure that you don't get thosands clogging up Jita. Though I'd personally be in favour of just closing off all stargates into Jita too many tards in one place. Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win
Great Artista Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:25:00 - [22] K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. ___________________________________ ___________________________________
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:33:00 - [23] Remove local
MeGrand Gallente Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:41:00 - [24] Leave local as it is Vital keeping me safe mesure And good for being socable I don't get it, you want people to go out to un secure space - but remove one of the vtal tools for staying safe out thier - good god NO All the right letters - just not nessacarily in the right order
Kala Veijo Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Meh, you know. I copied that idea from forums
Tribunal FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 25/10/2006 19:38:25 Remove local in 0.0 /strongly disagree Local helps provide PvP encounters. If there was no local then PvPers would spend 98% of their time flying around trying to find a target instead of the 80% of the time that it is now. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Irashi Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Great Artista Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Oh god, imagine Kimotoro... Jita and Kisogo locals being combined into one big horrible spamfest of noobishness. Dominix, Nosferatu, ECM, Webber, Tank, Drones, Spare cash, Insurance, No implants, Reckless attitude, Unresolved personal issues: Win
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:49:00 - [28] Edited by: MECTO on 25/10/2006 19:52:09 Originally by: MeGrand Leave local as it is Vital keeping me safe mesure And good for being socable I don't get it, you want people to go out to un secure space - but remove one of the vtal tools for staying safe out thier - good god NO considering that Phoenix Knights is one of the carebearing corp out there - u don't like this idea. It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - isn't it? Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era o
Kapitanleutnant Mei	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:58:00 - [29] local with the new carebear feature swill be just the same in lowsec /0.0 but its going to ruin empire PVP wars were you couldn't reallisticaly check everyone before :(.. at least it will until factional warfare
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Kala Veijo Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Meh, you know. I copied that idea from forums I also saw this on the boards a long time ago...forget who was the first to bring it up, but really seems like the best option to me. Although i think it might have been Rod from evol. Still a chat tool, still a surveilance tool, but is not a replacement for your ships scanner like it is now.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 25/10/2006 20:09:22 Originally by: Kapitanleutnant Mei local with the new carebear feature swill be just the same in lowsec /0.0 but its going to ruin empire PVP wars were you couldn't reallisticaly check everyone before :(.. at least it will until factional warfare Nonsense. Empire Wars everyone just added the enemy corp members to their buddy list anyway. Just lets us do the same functionality without having gigantic lagtastic buddy lists. These new features don't really give us any functionality we didn't ALREADY have... functionality that we had to cause LAG to get. Now we get the functionality we obviously needed (because we used it) without having to lag the servers to do it. Anything that reduces lag = good thing. For you folks who want to get rid of local altogether.... if it ever happened lowsec would become a ghost town. Even 0.0 would empty out. I love 0.0... I don't mind lowsec. That said... if ya'll got your way I might consider moving back to highsec. Local is a pretty vital tool. Not just for detecting danger but also for finding a fight.
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Razin on 25/10/2006 20:22:13 Originally by: Irashi Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local Not sure why you think there should be such easy and automatic access to this type of information. Devs have stated several times that Local was never meant to be an intel tool and that itÆll get nerfed as soon as new scanning features come in and prove useful. Local should and will eventually be replaced by better system scanning. ...
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 20:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Irashi Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local Not sure why you think there should be such easy and automatic access to this type of information. Devs have stated several times that Local was never meant to be and an intel tool and that itÆll get nerfed as soon as new scanning features come in and prove useful. Local should and will eventually be replaced by better system scanning. True but Until it does people need to quit screaming for it to be removed.
Nira Li Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:15:00 - [34] omg no that change is going to make me grumpy for a year You Will Cry My Name
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.25 21:16:00 - [35] yes stealth and being sneaky about stuff would make things interesting. And yes pvpers use local to check for enemies. then again if you jump into a system with an npcer in in 0,0 he simply hit ctrl-q I would not have voted for it a year ago but the current amount of ppl per sys in 0,0 makes it viable. Allso it would make warfare a bit more realistic and you`d get more engagements becaseu ppl would not know what they were going to get on top of them. Along with hp increase so ppl actually have time to come to rescue I can only see it as a good thing to remove it.
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:03:00 - [36] I think local needs to be removed. Why? Because the game isn't as fun as it could be if I'm sitting in a freighter and our scouts report back that they have checked local and the next 2 systems in the route are 100% safe. Scouts don't say they _think_ a system is safe, they say that they _know_ a system is safe. That strikes me as fundamentally flawed. Especially when a 15 second old character can do that scouting with 100% efficency.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Kapitanleutnant Mei local with the new carebear feature swill be just the same in lowsec /0.0 but its going to ruin empire PVP wars were you couldn't reallisticaly check everyone before :(.. at least it will until factional warfare Ummm, what? Have you actually been in an Empire war? Everyone was already doing this with buddy lists, it's SOP the moment you get a wardec. This changes very little, just removes some manual hassle and reduces server load.
Lily Savage CryoTech	Posted - 2006.10.25 22:25:00 - [38] Um, with the new local, I presume that you'll still need to do a "show info" on an unknown "!" toon before the sec status and red/blue FoF info shows (auto-load would be a ***** if a blob jumped into system)? So all this change really does is stop you having to have a list of hostile "buddies"?
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:08:00 - [39] Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:10:02 Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:09:17 The day we lose local is the last day any of us will make a friend.. IsnÆt that sad? What about the poor newbies who havenÆt already got friends? Will no one think of the poor newbies? Ok so we could just lose local in 0.0 and keep it in empire, but are those poor souls who live out in deep space to be driven mad by the space sickness? To go insane with only their own ravings for company? Say NO to anti-social behaviour kids. If people with guns are forced to hang around the gates on popular trade roots just to meet new and interesting people to talk with things are going to go down hill very quickly. You thought gate camps were bad when they were shooting at you, wait till they are waiting to tell you about their hernia operation.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:11:00 - [40] If local was nerfed: Negatives: grief^h^h^h^h^h pierats would just go to low sec and 0.0 systems with stations/outposts and warp around the belts until they found a npc'er or miner ... ego boosting fun for the pierat, killed a miner \o/, wow, what a challenge No-one would interact anymore, except for alliance/corp, which could make EVE really boring (depending on corp or alliance size) 0.0 would become a ghost town Positives: No more smack er, thats it
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:11:00 - [41] Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 25/10/2006 23:11:44 bah, double post
Havelcek Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:18:00 - [42] This is one of my personal happiest changes in Kali because the right-click ShowInfo thing is just ridiculously laggy. Also, the new spellchecker built into Firefox 2.0 roxxors.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:19:00 - [43] hehe .... and maybe it will stop all of those less than interesting convo's ... "uh, was doing a show info and I ...er.... bye"
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Havelcek Also, the new spellchecker built into Firefox 2.0 roxxors. QFT It's great flying Amarr, ain't it?
Kaosaur Dark Nebula Gallente Division Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Take that, combine it with drones that can move up to two systems away from you, telling you what it sees within X range, and you have yourself one damned awesome idea. (Make it be an expensive, high rank drone skill, and you can only control 1 and make it like 10-15m3) Imagine how much less would be going on in the game without everyone's alt scouts running around everywhere.
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Temo Jick Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:10:02 Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:09:17 The day we lose local is the last day any of us will make a friend.. IsnÆt that sad? What about the poor newbies who havenÆt already got friends? Will no one think of the poor newbies? Ok so we could just lose local in 0.0 and keep it in empire, but are those poor souls who live out in deep space to be driven mad by the space sickness? To go insane with only their own ravings for company? Say NO to anti-social behaviour kids. If people with guns are forced to hang around the gates on popular trade roots just to meet new and interesting people to talk with things are going to go down hill very quickly. You thought gate camps were bad when they were shooting at you, wait till they are waiting to tell you about their hernia operation. There are all kinds of other preset chat channels in the game to allow you to keep meeting interesting people. If you don't like those you can create your own. Additionally, nerfing Local doesnÆt have to mean completely losing it. All it means is that you donÆt show up in it until you use it to communicate. ...
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:33:00 - [47] How's about instead of Local chat we get constellation chat? Not nearly as much of an intel tool and still allows plenty of banter. I personally would like to see local nerfed to some degree but not removed completely... Either give us constellation chat or keep local but only make yourself 'visible' if you speak. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:37:00 - [48] Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local If an alliance is so disorganized or lazy that they cant have a small patrol at chokepoints to check for hostiles then they dont deserve to have secure space. If you only had 100 people online on a constant basis in alliance, each would only need to sit at a gate for 14.4 minutes per day to keep a constant guard up for that gate. It just comes down to plain laziness and wanting to take so much space that it difficult to defend it all with the numbers claiming. The Privateering Life
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:39:00 - [49] this is a good thing i think - im with infinity on this seeing hostiles and also -10 and -5 as well as friendlies in local is all round a good anti lag move Also ive noticed some new CEO and other tools CCP has brought in looking interesting
loony thezoon	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local If an alliance is so disorganized or lazy that they cant have a small patrol at chokepoints to check for hostiles then they dont deserve to have secure space. If you only had 100 people online on a constant basis in alliance, each would only need to sit at a gate for 14.4 minutes per day to keep a constant guard up for that gate. It just comes down to plain laziness and wanting to take so much space that it difficult to defend it all with the numbers claiming. So a 2 man gatecamp will defend against a 50 man attacking fleet? Then when you gather your forces to kill the 50 man fleet, you can still watch all the entry points? Think it through.
Haas Tabris	Posted - 2006.10.25 23:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Or region... But either way, that would make it a ton more easy to say hi to someone you know, and yet not give away your exact position. Rock on! Oh and, Is-something, love the sig!!
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.26 00:06:00 - [52] Edited by: Temo Jick on 26/10/2006 00:17:04 Originally by: Razin Originally by: Temo Jick Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:10:02 Edited by: Temo Jick on 25/10/2006 23:09:17 The day we lose local is the last day any of us will make a friend.. IsnÆt that sad? What about the poor newbies who havenÆt already got friends? Will no one think of the poor newbies? Ok so we could just lose local in 0.0 and keep it in empire, but are those poor souls who live out in deep space to be driven mad by the space sickness? To go insane with only their own ravings for company? Say NO to anti-social behaviour kids. If people with guns are forced to hang around the gates on popular trade roots just to meet new and interesting people to talk with things are going to go down hill very quickly. You thought gate camps were bad when they were shooting at you, wait till they are waiting to tell you about their hernia operation. There are all kinds of other preset chat channels in the game to allow you to keep meeting interesting people. If you don't like those you can create your own. Additionally, nerfing Local doesnÆt have to mean completely losing it. All it means is that you donÆt show up in it until you use it to communicate. Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, IÆm not going to make up any statistics to support it, and my opinion may not mean much to any one other then myself. In fact you should all probably just not bother reading this at all ^.^ But: As a born pessimist I do not believe the majority of us who play MMO games are half as outgoing (I mean that in the sense that we donÆt seek out strangers to engage in conversation) as we would like to be, and as we really need to be to make games like eve fun. Without the social content many of the grinding repetitive activates which keep the economy of eve going would, grind slowly to a halt simply because I know I at least need the distraction of conversation to keep grinding missions hauling and mining from being to boring to bare. Yes other channels do exist, and even someone with as few outgoing genes as myself have joined one or two. But I have joined them because people I would not have met if not for local prompted me to do so. I cant say I wouldnÆt have joined my corp. if not for local as I was recruited via eve-mail when still a newbie myself. However if not for local the person doing the recruiting would have had to stay at a gate or a station and check peoples info as they passed. If they had not been at the particular gate or station I happened to be using and their had been no local I wouldnÆt just be without a corp today. I wouldnÆt even be playing eve. People like me join up for the ships and the galaxy and the battles, but they stay for the good company and quality of conversation, which believe some one who has played a lot of mmos, Eve has in grater abundance then any other. Local is important as a channel that the anti-social player, maybe the player new to mmos canÆt close. Without it a lot less people capable of joining us in the eve-e-verse and enriching it with their company, good hummer and dare I say, ships to shoot at, would try eve and leave us after a short time. Without local we will only see more gate camps, which I donÆt think many people want. The solo pirates out in 0.0 would only find it harder to find targets then they do already. The people who stand to benefit from this the most are the ones speaking out against it, Ok so I might not know when a hostile is in the system so I wont be able to safe spot right away. But so long as they donÆt know IÆm there either my chances of getting blown up have decreased. Why? Because if that hostile were looking for targets he would be sitting at a gate some where near a low sec where he would have the best chance of actually finding a target.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.26 05:38:00 - [53] Originally by: loony thezoon Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Irashi Originally by: MECTO therese no need for local goddamit! Well short of making people maintain constant gatecamps all around their territory, local is the only way people have of detecting cov-ops flying alt scouts... Isn't that right Mecto... ¼_¼ Local would have to be replaced by something, maybe something like surveylance drones that you can plant in a system or near a gate to monitor what comes through then notifies you, your corp or alliance if it sees anything that isn't blue. Or would that be even worse than local If an alliance is so disorganized or lazy that they cant have a small patrol at chokepoints to check for hostiles then they dont deserve to have secure space. If you only had 100 people online on a constant basis in alliance, each would only need to sit at a gate for 14.4 minutes per day to keep a constant guard up for that gate. It just comes down to plain laziness and wanting to take so much space that it difficult to defend it all with the numbers claiming. So a 2 man gatecamp will defend against a 50 man attacking fleet? Then when you gather your forces to kill the 50 man fleet, you can still watch all the entry points? Think it through. Read the post I quoted. It was addressing the detection of a covert ops ship not a 50 man fleet. Now you think it through. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP and the server to do all the scouting for you and start doing it yourself. Until you do, not many people (other then your alliance mates) are going to feel very sorry that you 'cannot' protect those hundred or so systems you have 'claimed' as your own. Not even a covert ops can jump through a gate cloaked and even if it could you would still see the activation go off. The Privateering Life
mavs	Posted - 2006.10.26 06:02:00 - [54] Well as a person who lives in oo i think the new local rocks
kessah Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:12:00 - [55] high sec mercenary's wet dream, i can never be arsed adding a whole corp to a buddy list so this is a brilliant addition. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate 2
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:25:00 - [56] The reducing lag argument struck me as odd. While people will be generating less show info requests on targets now the client itself will be constantly requesting them for everyone in a system (to get the info needed to show standings) and doing it again everytime somone new enters a system. You imagine all that happening in systems like Jita and I suspect you're going to see more lag, not less (given not everyone is going to show info on everyone else). Personally I'm firmly in the no local in 0.0 group, won't bother repeating the arguments why as they've been stated a dozen times over in past threads. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.26 07:40:00 - [57] Local annoys me. I'm keeping my multi-thousand person buddy lists. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:54:00 - [58] Well I personally like local as it is cause it allows you to evade fights you wouldnt want to do and after all this is a game which has to make FUN. I still understand the argument that it is an unfair advantage for no real efford. What I think would be a fair inbetween is that you leave local as it is (or will be with the new features in kali) but make it optional. so basically you either have the info of local and can chat and show up immediatelly OR you fly totally blind. I havent pirated yet but I gues it would be utterly boring to cruiser around 30 belts only to then find out that you are the only one in systhem. you can apply this 1 to 1 to 0.0 and empire wars. So if you remove/semi remove local there has to be some way to get the same info but with a bit more work. many ppl talked about a probe or drone. I'd like a probe more cause it can be fited to every ship (other than shuttle and freighter) if you want (and sacrify that high-slot and maybe lows for cpu). A drone would either be no sacrificy for dedidaceted (or semi dedicated) drone ships (take 25m¦ of that domi and it just laughs) or unuseable for others. What I think should also be implemented is a warning that tells you when you have been scanned (maybe switchable so it doesnt show if it was a blue). If the ships in EVE can detect things 14AU away in a few secs they can also detect the scanners.
Gardavil Gallente Chaotic Navigation	Posted - 2006.10.26 08:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local OMG nonononono wrong direction, turn around and go the OTHER way the players need Local nerfed, not gussied up and made to function like a BILLBOARD _____________________________________________ I you can read this I am in your optimal. ....no...wait...you are in my optimal....oh nevermind...
Aterna Minmatar M'8'S	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:50:00 - [60] I read something by a dev along the lines of local changing to constellation chat. Something about the devs being unhappy with how Local is only being used for intel and not for communication. Local chat holds no advantage for one person over another, each person in the channel has the ability to look at it, click show info on unknowns and find out if they are a potential hostile to be dealt with or avoided. Saying that it gives an advantage is completely false, as it works equally well with all parties in the channel. Where it is abused is through newb corp alts spread through surrounding systems acting as early warning systems. My corporation encounters them all the time while on pvp ops in low-sec empire. Changing local to constellation with the current scan system would cause a very large increase in the amount of non-consentual pvp between pirates, gankers, and carebears/mission runners. I haven't checked out the new scan system on Singularity, so until someone posts an in-depth on its effectiveness at keeping tabs on people in system, I will bet that local will not change. The local chat won't disappear, most likely it will become constellation chat. At least with constellation chat you have a large pool of people to talk to, without fear of giving away intel (unless you're dumb enough to go spouting off about your latest kill and what you flew while doing it). - - -
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:01:00 - [61] Why do we have local anyways? If you want to talk you PM them ... Remove local I say! Originally by: Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Semper Fidelis Industries	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:17:00 - [62] Local must be the single most idiotic thing in EVE. Its infact so stupid you have a hard time understanding the reasoning of creating it in the first place. "Hey, lets make everyone see everyone, so there wont be any stealth, cov-ops, surprices, tension whatsoever/whatever in the game left!?" "Hey look, a cloaked ship we cant see, but Junior is flying it! Oh, here comes hes friends too, we better go" ? REMOVE Local Plz -----====----- "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." - John Wayne
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:24:00 - [63] Originally by: Irashi stuff your sig made me LOL ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Soraya Silvermoon Never'where	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:36:00 - [64] Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 26/10/2006 11:40:06 Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 26/10/2006 11:38:55 Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 26/10/2006 11:38:43 Yeah REmove local.. If you have ever seen pitch black... It would be hillarious to get scouts saying things like "Seems clear" :D Allso it would enhance the exploration feeling... With the new conquerables. Or simply make an option to not show yourself in local unless you talk. Someone give me grammar lessons :\
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:59:00 - [65] Originally by: Securion Wolfheart Local must be the single most idiotic thing in EVE. Its infact so stupid you have a hard time understanding the reasoning of creating it in the first place. "Hey, lets make everyone see everyone, so there wont be any stealth, cov-ops, surprices, tension whatsoever/whatever in the game left!?" "Hey look, a cloaked ship we cant see, but Junior is flying it! Oh, here comes hes friends too, we better go" ? REMOVE Local Plz its even not absolutely logical , its a sense of a arcade It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:00:00 - [66] Originally by: Letouk Mernel Wish they'd let us have a setting where the list of people in the channel is shown as text only, no portraits. It would compress it vertically a bit. /signed with feeling That or allow the people list to reflow into columns so it can be fitted vertically on the screen. - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:07:00 - [67] Originally by: Radioactive Babe If local was nerfed: Negatives: grief^h^h^h^h^h pierats would just go to low sec and 0.0 systems with stations/outposts and warp around the belts until they found a npc'er or miner ... ego boosting fun for the pierat, killed a miner \o/, wow, what a challenge use-a-scanner It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:08:00 - [68] Originally by: Illuminaty I think local needs to be removed. Why? Because the game isn't as fun as it could be if I'm sitting in a freighter and our scouts report back that they have checked local and the next 2 systems in the route are 100% safe. Scouts don't say they _think_ a system is safe, they say that they _know_ a system is safe. That strikes me as fundamentally flawed. Well actually it strikes me as fundamentally dumb. As it would probably strike you if 70+ hostiles had ever simultaneously logged into an empty system whilst one of your freighter gangs was in midwarp there... - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:11:00 - [69] Edited by: MECTO on 26/10/2006 12:11:16 Originally by: Lucre Originally by: Illuminaty I think local needs to be removed. Why? Because the game isn't as fun as it could be if I'm sitting in a freighter and our scouts report back that they have checked local and the next 2 systems in the route are 100% safe. Scouts don't say they _think_ a system is safe, they say that they _know_ a system is safe. That strikes me as fundamentally flawed. Well actually it strikes me as fundamentally dumb. As it would probably strike you if 70+ hostiles had ever simultaneously logged into an empty system whilst one of your freighter gangs was in midwarp there... they supose to warp on a blind fate? and tbh with adress book u know that they are logged out etc so don't take point of the It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Liklin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:12:00 - [70] Edited by: Liklin on 26/10/2006 12:13:06 Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Everybody was checking that info manually anyway, so there is no difference. Only better server performance. I like it... :) not ever1 don't lie - caldari don't checkin' Cap'n we have 3 Klingon Battle Cruisers closing at warp 4.5, they'll be here in the hour Ok Mr Spock Contact the Defiant and have Bones beam over for my daily BJ before they arrive.....
DanMck Amarr Rionnag Alba Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Tribunal Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Edited by: Soraya Silvermoon on 25/10/2006 19:38:25 Remove local in 0.0 /strongly disagree Local helps provide PvP encounters. If there was no local then PvPers would spend 98% of their time flying around trying to find a target instead of the 80% of the time that it is now. qft
Ghitza Backup Squad	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:41:00 - [72] Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear I agree, eve is geting more carebear this way.
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:42:00 - [73] Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Radioactive Babe If local was nerfed: Negatives: grief^h^h^h^h^h pierats would just go to low sec and 0.0 systems with stations/outposts and warp around the belts until they found a npc'er or miner ... ego boosting fun for the pierat, killed a miner \o/, wow, what a challenge use-a-scanner Think about that for a second, suppose you're in a gang mining, you have to have one person pressing the scan button constantly just in case a pirate gang comes in scan range because you don't know they're in local. Turn it around, pirate gang has to scan every system to know if there are targets there, however they only have to scan a couple of times and when they don't see anything they can just move on. The miners have to keep smashing the scan button the whole time they're there. Nerfing local also nerfs pvp, you waste extra time only to find out there is noone in local to fight instead of coming in seeing noone in local chat and just moving on. PS, the mining thing is an example, you won't catch me mining, having way too much fun shooting stuff. Crystal-Slave, that way? Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:51:00 - [74] Originally by: Kaosaur Originally by: Great Artista K im gonna say my friend, Kala Veijo's, idea and claim it as my own. Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Take that, combine it with drones that can move up to two systems away from you, telling you what it sees within X range, and you have yourself one damned awesome idea. (Make it be an expensive, high rank drone skill, and you can only control 1 and make it like 10-15m3)Imagine how much less would be going on in the game without everyone's alt scouts running around everywhere. A good idea you killed with (Make it be an expensive, high rank drone skill, and you can only control 1 and make it like 10-15m3). Must be something usable by newbye. Na thew Constellation and region channels exists, only no one use them.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.26 13:03:00 - [75] I'm for removeing local....If all the map tools that show where people are active in game also go with it. Level the playing field for all. Course then we'll have cases of enemy fleets jumping into the same system, warping past eachother and jumping out without ever knowing the other was even there....nice. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.26 13:06:00 - [76] As I posted in the ships and modules forum: this changes NOTHING, except facilitating a HUGE decrease in lag (less show info's, dont have to notify the client when each buddy logs on/off). oh, and everyone can finally use their buddy list for actual buddies! A competent player will have their buddylist stuffed full of hostiles anyway. So in reality, this is a lag fix. If you're one of the people who want local removed altogether, try it out. You can remove the portraits from local in the click of a button. Hell, you can even minimize the window so you cant even see the number of ships in local. Tell us how many kills you normally get in a week then fly like this for a week (or even two/three) and let us know how much you killed and how more frustrated you are now with trying to find a target. ____________________ Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.10.26 13:24:00 - [77] Originally by: Xs 142 Why do we have local anyways? If you want to talk you PM them ... Remove local I say! So the one asking "Someone speak italian (or German, Russian, ecc.) here?" for some basic info he hasn't grasped, must convo every player in systen till he get someone available, capable, and with the right language for him? Give the new player 5 millions at start then to pay for the communication fee. BTW: help channel is in english. constellation chat: only if all of us have automatic kill rights on spammers. If you want an idea of what will be a constellation channel, try te recuiter channel or look local in some of the busy systems.
Darcie Wray	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:27:00 - [78] When people say "remove local" they dont mean take it completely and permanently out of the game. They mean make it so you only appear in it if you talk.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:30:00 - [79] As for how "stupid" it was to include local, every MMO has a local channel, and /who features allowing you to see who's in the zone, etc. I guess they went with the flow, at the time when the game was designed. My opinion is that the chat system in EVE is somewhat cumbersome and extremely laggy. It actually pauses the whole client trying to update its little window, something it shouldn't do. I'd be all for a local where you cannot see the names of the other players, just hear what they say if they say anything, but there has to be another way to see who's around you. And, honestly, basing that on a skill or modules or whatnot creates more lag than the current "everyone sees it by default with no extra clicks" method. I think that if they remove the local list from the channel itself and put it in the overview or its own window (like I said before, prefer a text list, no portraits), it may make people accept whatever changes they make in terms of how it functions, whether it's short range or requires skills or modules or whatnot. Separate the communication tool (local chat window) from the intel-gathering tool (list of players and their sec standing), and you can change one without people complaining that you affected the other.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:38:00 - [80] Remove local when the Scanner is improved. At the moment, removing local would be a severe nerf to defenders (eg, miners and ratters who get mugged alot). Think about it; pirate jumps in, opens scanner, clicks "scan". Maybe warps around a bit to cover the whole system. Spots someone at a belt on scanner- warps to belt, fighty fighty. Miners in system- he has to have scanner open AT ALL TIMES, clicking "scan" every 3 seconds to ensure he has around 7 seconds warning that an enemy is incoming. That would create A) a but load of lag, and B) a situation where no one but PvPers got to low sec. And if only PvPers went to low sec, who would the pirates pirate? When the scanner is imporved, Local can go. Until then, this is a good temp thing- it doesn't give you any more powers or any bigger advantage than wwe've always had, but now it does it in a lag-free way. -----------------------------------------------
DOGNOSH Minmatar SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:38:00 - [81] Edited by: DOGNOSH on 26/10/2006 14:39:36 Originally by: Jack Brimstone I know that there is a body of opinion that is pro-local removal same ones who want WCS removed and ISK for GTC removed and no character sales in forum and ECMs nerfed and,well and anything that gives them the "I WIN" button Funny enough they want WCS removed but want to keep the opposite module,warp disruptors Whine whine whine,why do you want local removed? or WCS for that matter ? You attack others in groups of 3 or more ! ! ! Hey,lets make a new rule, one on one only TRUE PVP no ? awwwwww mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus Xorus has been webbified - DOGNOSH
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:48:00 - [82] I will happily accept the removal of local - just give me permanently active scanner that flashes a message when a new person enters system. What I dont want is a player has to having a constantly opening scanning sreen, hitting the button every 2 sec whilst mining, ratting or missioning. Huge advantage to the pirate who scans once per system he enters for possible targets and then if it is empty just moves on until he finds someone. Local is effectively a permanently operating long range scanner that warns you when another ship enters the system. Reducing the information - just change the number in the total and don't show character information unless a person talks - would be fair.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:55:00 - [83] How about a "threat index" instead of the local list? Add up the sec status of everyone in the system and display the total average. The more pirates are in the system, the lower the index is, indicating danger without pointing out names. Could be a replacement to the list of names.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:55:00 - [84] Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/10/2006 14:56:01 Originally by: Patch86 When the scanner is imporved, Local can go. Until then, this is a good temp thing- it doesn't give you any more powers or any bigger advantage than wwe've always had, but now it does it in a lag-free way. Agree to that. Seems like the times, when we sensed a node crash or login tactics across the whole universe are over, because a full column of 'buddy' logins or logoffs popped up to the right I've been wondering often about the lag-spike, if a thousand people get those login/off notifications. Think my addressbook has passed the 1000 mark already. Had 750 reds/alts or so in it some months ago. Then I began to add Imp and Goons ...
Saito Arakanu	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:41:00 - [85] You are correct sir! Originally by: St Dragon Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: MECTO Originally by: Darius Shakor This is happening with local Overview tags for standings now show in local, replacing the need for a massive buddy list that lags your client out. that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear Everybody was checking that info manually anyway, so there is no difference. Only better server performance. I like it... :) not ever1 don't lie - caldari don't checkin' Quite your whining you got your WCS fix afterall this local change just gives something for the non pvp person and the pvp hunter
Saito Arakanu	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:43:00 - [86] Originally by: MeGrand ... I don't get it, you want people to go out to un secure space - but remove one of the vtal tools for staying safe out thier - good god NO QFT!
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:58:00 - [87] Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar If you're one of the people who want local removed altogether, try it out. You can remove the portraits from local in the click of a button. Hell, you can even minimize the window so you cant even see the number of ships in local. Tell us how many kills you normally get in a week then fly like this for a week (or even two/three) and let us know how much you killed and how more frustrated you are now with trying to find a target. This idea is nice but fundamentaly flawed. Everyone else has a local and everyone elsee can just go zoom as soon as you enter as they do now. It's not like it can be tested on a proper ground as you're the only one with it... That's like telling the cops to only run after criminals to see how it would be if we didn't have cars... The criminals still use the cars even if the police wants to try without.. Originally by:* Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Xs 142	Posted - 2006.10.26 18:00:00 - [88] Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne Originally by: Xs 142 Why do we have local anyways? If you want to talk you PM them ... Remove local I say! So the one asking "Someone speak italian (or German, Russian, ecc.) here?" for some basic info he hasn't grasped, must convo every player in systen till he get someone available, capable, and with the right language for him? Give the new player 5 millions at start then to pay for the communication fee. BTW: help channel is in english. constellation chat: only if all of us have automatic kill rights on spammers. If you want an idea of what will be a constellation channel, try te recuiter channel or look local in some of the busy systems. So you imply that people surf around systems and ask in local for people? ever heard of corp chat? I find it very nice and.. un-spammy. Originally by: Oveur Eternally yours, The other dumbass
Rekless Revenge Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.26 18:08:00 - [89] Edited by: Rekless Revenge on 26/10/2006 18:09:24 Put an option so you can choose to have local on or not. Personally I'll keep it on for myself, much more fun. For top fun, could make it so anyone with - sec status could automatically have local removed.
Ysolde Xen Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.10.26 18:30:00 - [90] Less lag whilst still able to be sociable and participate in impromptu chat. Win. ----- It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong.
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.26 18:43:00 - [91] Quote: that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear But if local is removed than how do pvpers know if theres even anyone even in the system, and yes a scanner could work but for big systems it backfires. --------
Temo Jick	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:05:00 - [92] Edited by: Temo Jick on 26/10/2006 19:05:06 I think its time to agree to disagree guys. Seriusly check the posts that have already been made before adding your own. This is just going around and around with both sides repeating exactily the same things.
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:17:00 - [93] IMO the best way is to put local delayed kill alt post thx
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:31:00 - [94] Edited by: Kaathar Rielspar on 26/10/2006 19:31:53 Originally by: Xs 142 Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar If you're one of the people who want local removed altogether, try it out. You can remove the portraits from local in the click of a button. Hell, you can even minimize the window so you cant even see the number of ships in local. Tell us how many kills you normally get in a week then fly like this for a week (or even two/three) and let us know how much you killed and how more frustrated you are now with trying to find a target. This idea is nice but fundamentaly flawed. Everyone else has a local and everyone elsee can just go zoom as soon as you enter as they do now. It's not like it can be tested on a proper ground as you're the only one with it... That's like telling the cops to only run after criminals to see how it would be if we didn't have cars... The criminals still use the cars even if the police wants to try without.. granted it isn't a level playing field if you were to do this as it stands now but the idea itself isn't flawed. dumb people that get caught by people looking to start a fight are still the same dumb people that are going to get caught regardless of local or not. you think everyone checks local all the time? the same way everyone always puts sensible fits on their ships? of course they dont. my point is, if you remove local then as a hunter you become effectively blinded to the potential of a fight in any given solar system. and you have to waste time scanning empty belts and planets. also, my point doesn't lie with the target running away anyway, its getting firsthand experience of what it would be like to actively hunt without knowing ANYTHING about the population of the system you are in. and i strongly believe aforementioned experience would turn out to be a frustrating one. edit: omgspeelling ____________________ Originally by:* Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:47:00 - [95] Originally by: Araxmas Quote: that is totaly lame - u see from start that enemies in local etc - Eve Goes Carebear But if local is removed than how do pvpers know if theres even anyone even in the system, and yes a scanner could work but for big systems it backfires. eve becomes more about explorations and interesting observations? not like arcade u enter = u see anything... wtf? It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.26 20:01:00 - [96] well, to strike a ballance between being social and gathering intel, how about if: 1. Keep local. 2. In the Local chat's player list, ONLY display names. 3. The names of everyone in local but your own will appear scrambled to you. ie: ckcjueio5 gkeo9zopd rake59zyq Rorix Whitecloud z4lboslge 4. Every scrambled name would be of the same length regardless of the real player's name. 5. Every time you enter a new system, everyone's name would be scrambled again, meaning if you were in system A, and you have player aaaaaaaaa in local, you go to system B, then come back to system A, that same player would appear as bbbbbbbbb, also meaning that player A and player B will see a different version of player C's scrambled name. 6. Disallow "Show Info" in Local. 7. All other chats should remain as they are now. This way, local will remain useful for chatting, but not very useful (other than checking if the system is empty) for intel gathering... A good ballance between the two opposing views here. Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
SadisticSavior Caldari Edenists	Posted - 2006.10.26 20:27:00 - [97] Edited by: SadisticSavior on 26/10/2006 20:28:49 Quote: Remove Local completelley. Replace it with Constellation channel, thet works like the current Local. Wow, thats a good idea. I could live with that. Makes the system still anonymous and still allows for (reasonably) local chat. Quote: Remove local in 0.0 Thats a good idea too. Makes sense from a backstory-perspective as well. I dont PvP much, but I like the danger it adds to the game. I dont want to see the hands of player-pirates tied. Quote: Oh god, imagine Kimotoro... Jita and Kisogo locals being combined into one big horrible spamfest of noobishness. Make an exception for Jita then. Or maybe just remove local from jita alone, and use the constellation idea for everywhere else. There needs to be an incentive not to go to Jita anyway. There are way too many people there. Quote: constellation chat: only if all of us have automatic kill rights on spammers. Another great idea. I can live with that.
Riddick06	Posted - 2006.10.27 06:54:00 - [98] I predict local will disapear from 0.0 and high secs local will be changed to constellation, infact if that were so it would be even easier to spot your war targets and add them to your buddy list.
Riddick06	Posted - 2006.10.27 06:59:00 - [99] Edited by: Rid**06 on 27/10/2006 07:00:04 Originally by: ceaon IMO the best way is to put local delayed OMG UR SIG, i had it running all the way til the end and the weird lookin pink one rips off the head of the green one and crawls in it and walks off usin it as a furr coat!!! How do you get away with sick crap like that the link
Khetchi	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:50:00 - [100] Remove local completely? ROFL! I love this idea. Then people wouldn't know the Pirates were in the system until one poped into scanner range. Of course that would aslo mean that a Pirate entering a system would have no idea if anyone was in there either. Imagine how much fun a Pirate would have jumping in, scanning entire system, finding nobody there, jumping to next system, scanning entire system, finding nobody there, ect, ect, ect. Get rid of the Local Channel. Then set your stopwatch and see how long it takes Pirates to start whining about how the massive amount of extra time they have to burn up looking for victems amounts to an "Anti-Pirate nerf."
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:53:00 - [101] lol I agree remove local dont let anyone know whos in what system. Its perfect and will definately make those priates earn their keep. great idea!!! I really think this is the perfect thing todo for the game.
Talen Kross Dragon's Rage Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.27 10:58:00 - [102] I like the changes although one thing that i would add would be that cloaking removes you from the local list until you chat or decloak. ------------------------- Allow cloaking to remove you from local until your chat or decloak.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:01:00 - [103] Originally by: Talen Kross I like the changes although one thing that i would add would be that cloaking removes you from the local list until you chat or decloak. I dont agree either you remove everyone or they all stay. giving some special options out of chat is not fair at all ;) basically because seeing some one in chat is not seeing someone in game.
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Semper Fidelis Industries	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:56:00 - [104] I think the best solution would be to remove Local and then have a Constelation chat instead, or even Region could be used... -----====----- "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." - John Wayne
Elune Ferret Gallente Valley Forge	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:02:00 - [105] I through reading this thread came to the conclusion that removing Local as a system scanner wouldn't be too bad, migth even good. Then I found out a funny little trick: Imagine a corp doing some low sec mining, this migth happen quite often. They band togher a nice little fleet to go harvest all the lovely ore everybody wants. For this I though you just needed to watch the gates, so you'd know if a hunter came looking for some loot. nice and fair. And with no Local channel they wouldn't know that the corp(easy prey) was there mining, unlees he started a system scan either with some sort of probe, or by going from location to location to find them. Just now I'm told of a minor flaw here.... You see the hunter (Hard target), has a nice nerfed map option... He can from a fair distance (doesn't even have to be in the system) look for "Blob's". If this "Blob" of players are located in an astroid belt, they are most likely miners = easy defenceless prey. This little thing changed my mind around quite a bit. I'd say nerf the Local even more. You could go for a removal of the scanning feature for it, but only doing that if you remove the map scanning without skill/equipment/probe feature. That's a nasty nerfed pirate/hunter feature. Still waiting for ingame voice, with voice mods.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:24:00 - [106] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 12:28:12 Originally by: Khetchi Of course that would aslo mean that a Pirate entering a system would have no idea if anyone was in there either. Imagine how much fun a Pirate would have jumping in, scanning entire system, finding nobody there, jumping to next system, scanning entire system, finding nobody there, ect, ect, ect. Not to mention same pirate jumping into a belt and getting barbecued by the 5 NPC hunters he landed next to. No local also means no easy way of seeing if all those ships belong to people in the same corp/alliance or not In case someone pipes in and says "NPC hunters can't kill a pirate!", I'll just note that recently a wannabe pirate jumped our mining operation. No guards, just battleships and cruisers with mining lasers. His Mega went boom before he could say "wtf?!"... and that's just one example to prove the point. Even carebears can bite. It's too bad that killmails don't list mining lasers... There's a big difference between knowing there are 10 people in the system, and knowing that 8 of those belong to the same corp... I'm not sure if the people who want local removed are quite aware of all the consequences of that.
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.27 13:53:00 - [107] Edited by: Zoxia on 27/10/2006 13:55:31 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 27/10/2006 12:28:12 Originally by: Khetchi Of course that would aslo mean that a Pirate entering a system would have no idea if anyone was in there either. Imagine how much fun a Pirate would have jumping in, scanning entire system, finding nobody there, jumping to next system, scanning entire system, finding nobody there, ect, ect, ect. Not to mention same pirate jumping into a belt and getting barbecued by the 5 NPC hunters he landed next to. No local also means no easy way of seeing if all those ships belong to people in the same corp/alliance or not In case someone pipes in and says "NPC hunters can't kill a pirate!", I'll just note that recently a wannabe pirate jumped our mining operation. No guards, just battleships and cruisers with mining lasers. His Mega went boom before he could say "wtf?!"... and that's just one example to prove the point. Even carebears can bite. It's too bad that killmails don't list mining lasers... There's a big difference between knowing there are 10 people in the system, and knowing that 8 of those belong to the same corp... I'm not sure if the people who want local removed are quite aware of all the consequences of that. the only bad i see is for pirates who have to go looking for prey and possibly face npc's in belts. other than that i think it would be great to have it removed. I also think it will create a better game play experience by making the lower sectors open more. no one will auto know someone has entered and ruch to a gate or start looking. It will allow regular players to sneak through and get to places theyve never been able too before.
Shilak Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.27 15:04:00 - [108] Simple solution ... Keep the Local Chat channel, keep the count of the number of players in local, but only show the portrait and the name if the player says something in local. This way players that wish to keep a low profile can remain relatively unseen (and unknown) in local until they say something or someone finds them. Hunters can still see if there are potential targets in the system by checking the player count.
Roshan longshot Gallente Order of the Arrow	Posted - 2006.10.27 15:12:00 - [109] This thread got derailed real good...OP wanted to know if that little tid bit of TOMB'S was going to be added. Posters turned it into "GET RID OF LOCAL so I can sneak up on miners and gank them." Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.

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