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Miners need some love

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imariel Greuh Sacerdotium Nulli Secunda 1	Posted - 2015.04.05 09:27:03 - [1] - Quote Hi everyone, When I started to play, I was a lonely miner. Then I integrated a mining corp, then another, and then joined a French corp in 0.0. There I mined enough to buy / build my first capital ship, a carrier. The problem is, I now make much more money killing pirates than mining (even with rorqual boosts), so when my exhumers undock, I feel I am losing my time (and wealth). The only comfort I have is that now the belts really look amazing. Anyway I feel that the mining income should be higher. We could have ships mining more, the problem is it would most likely decrease the ore price, so that's not a realistic option. Here are the solutions I thought of : 1)Easiest one : Concord decreets that the drifter threat is really high and that we all need to prepare for that. To encourage pilots getting more / bigger / better equiped ships they create a subvention to ore/ice mining (yeah, that's a kind of bounty on ore). No drawbacks on the economy, just wealthier miners. It would also be possible to apply that through a "mining ess" (subventions stocked in until shared / stolen) 2)new mining ships ie t3 mining ships, with same ore/ice throughput, but with one added capacity (linked to subsystem choice ?) I thought that they could use some kind of electromagnetical device that would gather things around them (possible new mini game here). The things could be : -gas (would decrease the booster prices) -moon mining components (0.0 repartition is quite bad, you need a large zone to gather all you need. This solution will decrease the moon mining profitability) -new thing to sell at Concord -other, keeping in mind that what you gather will have its price decrease. Thanks for reading until the end :-) Imariel
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15569	Posted - 2015.04.05 09:36:45 - [2] - Quote We don't need more isk being injected by an army of AFK skiffs. Want minerals to be worth more? reduce the flow of them. Best way to do this? Support ganking. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Madd Adda 59	Posted - 2015.04.05 09:38:23 - [3] - Quote yeah more money! nay t3 miner, that's a CODE wet dream right there. Carebear extraordinaire
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 236	Posted - 2015.04.05 09:39:37 - [4] - Quote Sorry, but no. The real way to increase miner income is to stimulate demand and kick bots. Npc's dropping small-run bpc's instead of modules has been touted before, another would be to trigger another r-b/asakai. Also, increasing the 'high end' ore requirements for most modules and ships would have the same effect on the 'high end' ores..... For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 25	Posted - 2015.04.05 10:06:34 - [5] - Quote A way more active mining gameplay would make go away a lot of afkers, each time a mining mini-game is proposed, there is always someone to say "may I say nay, I love my boring (aka easy to multibox) gameplay about pressing F1. But that's not what I want as a miner, I really want a dedicated profession that doesn't involve only very expensive ships and dedicated long-times to train skills, I want to make a difference by my (player) skills. That would already make a big change, we don't need other ships or NPC stuff, except better mining missions but solo only maybe. A simple survey scanner proposal : post
Galphii Caldari Provisions Caldari State 304	Posted - 2015.04.05 10:15:41 - [6] - Quote I think the devs have plenty on their plate for the rest of the year and beyond - fixing sov and redoing the structure system is a massive undertaking. PvE and mining content does need addressing but it's not as pressing as those issues. Perhaps next year "Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
imariel Greuh Sacerdotium Nulli Secunda 1	Posted - 2015.04.05 10:44:54 - [7] - Quote Galphii wrote: I think the devs have plenty on their plate for the rest of the year and beyond - fixing sov and redoing the structure system is a massive undertaking. PvE and mining content does need addressing but it's not as pressing as those issues. Perhaps next year The future new drilling plateforme can go in the same direction also
Fabrizio Faggetino University of Caille Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2015.04.05 10:59:40 - [8] - Quote The problem with mining isn't that miners don't get enough ores, It's that they get too much of it. There is a very large supply of it, hence why it's worth so little. It's also the reason why there's so many ******* super caps and titans. And now CCP is going to buff null sec ores, massive mistake IMO. What they should do is nerf them across the board. And I do mine, by the way.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16229	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:04:28 - [9] - Quote baltec1 wrote: We don't need more isk being injected by an army of AFK skiffs. Want minerals to be worth more? reduce the flow of them. Best way to do this? Support ganking. Or as supplementary alternatives, promote increased demand. Support nullsec & sov reform to increase the number of fights; support BS rebalancing to make these mineral-hoggging hulls popular agai, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Raphael Celestine Celestine Inc. 58	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:20:35 - [10] - Quote There's no way to increase mining income across-the-board without causing major ripples in the rest of the game: mining's just too big a part of EVE's economy for that. The 'ore subvention' would create a massive new ISK faucet - quite possibly of a similar size to the ISK produced null-sec ratting, which CCP has elsewhere mentioned is insanely high and could easily crash the economy if they don't tread carefully. If you suddenly increase the amount of money in the economy, prices jump along with it... and sudden massive price spikes are generally considered 'drawbacks on the economy'. Otherwise, if you're not providing an NPC ISK faucet, you've got to pull any extra mining income out of the money currently flowing through the economy - so changes to what can be mined or how fast will either push up prices for consumers, or push down prices of minerals etc so that miners end up with the same income as now.

Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 25	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:26:43 - [11] - Quote Raphael Celestine wrote: There's no way to increase mining income across-the-board without causing major ripples in the rest of the game: mining's just too big a part of EVE's economy for that. The 'ore subvention' would create a massive new ISK faucet - quite possibly of a similar size to the ISK produced null-sec ratting, which CCP has elsewhere mentioned is insanely high and could easily crash the economy if they don't tread carefully. If you suddenly increase the amount of money in the economy, prices jump along with it... and sudden massive price spikes are generally considered 'drawbacks on the economy'. Otherwise, if you're not providing an NPC ISK faucet, you've got to pull any extra mining income out of the money currently flowing through the economy - so changes to what can be mined or how fast will either push up prices for consumers, or push down prices of minerals etc so that miners end up with the same income as now. Why not thinking it to be funnier instead ? Every isk earned, even if it stays a low income across the game, would make it more rewarding to the miners. I don't know for others but for me fun is way more important that in-game money, plus as a solo miner I just don't need isk, just enough to pay my ships and fit. And a miner isn't supposed to lose his ship every two days, but supposedly never. A simple survey scanner proposal : post
admiral root Red Galaxy 2646	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:26:49 - [12] - Quote imariel wrote: Anyway I feel that the mining income should be higher. Here are the solutions I thought of : 1)Easiest one : Blow **** up. Lots of it. I took the liberty of fixing your post. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12527	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:59:06 - [13] - Quote baltec1 wrote: We don't need more isk being injected by an army of AFK skiffs. Want minerals to be worth more? reduce the flow of them. Best way to do this? Support ganking. Exactly this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Korvus Falek Syndicate Society Drop the Hammer 100	Posted - 2015.04.05 12:32:56 - [14] - Quote baltec1 wrote: We don't need more isk being injected by an army of AFK skiffs. Want minerals to be worth more? reduce the flow of them. Best way to do this? Support ganking. Skiffs dont directly inject ISK into the market. What a fleet of miners does do, however, is increase the supply of ore and minerals. ISK is not created by mining (except for the bounties of rats when your fleet is attacked). Id suggest going after the massive number of mission runners, incursion runners, and site runners in all areas of space before suggesting that miners flood isk into the game. There is a large difference between item flow and isk flow; mining does not create ISK.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 821	Posted - 2015.04.05 12:35:15 - [15] - Quote Kiddoomer wrote: Why not thinking it to be funnier instead ? Every isk earned, even if it stays a low income across the game, would make it more rewarding to the miners. I don't know for others but for me fun is way more important that in-game money, plus as a solo miner I just don't need isk, just enough to pay my ships and fit. And a miner isn't supposed to lose his ship every two days, but supposedly never. Why isn't a miner suppose to never lose his ship? The game (or at least the economy) would be pretty broken if resource generating industrial ships like miners would be invulnerable. But if you find mining fun and don't want to ever lose your ship just mine on the test server. 100% safety there and all the fun! As to the OP, the ease of multiboxing, and especially botting, is what is keeping mineral prices down. Pressure CCP to step up their efforts to stop bots, and longer term, work on changes to the mining mechanic itself to make it much less easy to multibox if you want mining incomes to rise.
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 25	Posted - 2015.04.05 12:57:07 - [16] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Kiddoomer wrote: Why not thinking it to be funnier instead ? Every isk earned, even if it stays a low income across the game, would make it more rewarding to the miners. I don't know for others but for me fun is way more important that in-game money, plus as a solo miner I just don't need isk, just enough to pay my ships and fit. And a miner isn't supposed to lose his ship every two days, but supposedly never. Why isn't a miner suppose to never lose his ship? The game (or at least the economy) would be pretty broken if resource generating industrial ships like miners would be invulnerable. But if you find mining fun and don't want to ever lose your ship just mine on the test server. 100% safety there and all the fun! As to the OP, the ease of multiboxing, and especially botting, is what is keeping mineral prices down. Pressure CCP to step up their efforts to stop bots, and longer term, work on changes to the mining mechanic itself to make it much less easy to multibox if you want mining incomes to rise. I agree 100% with the third part, as for the "losing mining ship", I was saying that a (not afk) miner should and do avoid combat at all cost, while most of the time a pvp player undock knowing that there is a high probability that he will get destroyed. And no that's because I find mining boring that I want it to change, not because I don't recieve "enough" isk for doing it. A simple survey scanner proposal : post
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 918	Posted - 2015.04.05 12:57:35 - [17] - Quote Cutting down on the flow of ISK into the game is another way to buff mining. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 96	Posted - 2015.04.05 13:25:12 - [18] - Quote Wealthier miners... Sounds not really good. There are too many miners so it's an obvious oversupply.. CODE is not doing it'sr job as it should be.
Raphael Celestine Celestine Inc. 58	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:02:26 - [19] - Quote Korvus Falek wrote: baltec1 wrote: We don't need more isk being injected by an army of AFK skiffs. Want minerals to be worth more? reduce the flow of them. Best way to do this? Support ganking. Skiffs dont directly inject ISK into the market. What a fleet of miners does do, however, is increase the supply of ore and minerals. ISK is not created by mining (except for the bounties of rats when your fleet is attacked). Id suggest going after the massive number of mission runners, incursion runners, and site runners in all areas of space before suggesting that miners flood isk into the game. There is a large difference between item flow and isk flow; mining does not create ISK. One of OP's suggestions was that CONCORD should pay an ore bounty, which would be an ISK source.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15574	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:25:54 - [20] - Quote Malcanis wrote: baltec1 wrote: We don't need more isk being injected by an army of AFK skiffs. Want minerals to be worth more? reduce the flow of them. Best way to do this? Support ganking. Or as supplementary alternatives, promote increased demand. Support nullsec & sov reform to increase the number of fights; support BS rebalancing to make these mineral-hoggging hulls popular agai, We get more demand from more gankers. Remember, not only does the miner need a new ship but also the gankers Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship

Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 260	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:19:03 - [21] - Quote Do you even care using the search tool before posting? Now I know you don't. Reported for redundancy
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 617	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:23:04 - [22] - Quote You are looking at this the wrong way but as always CCP has listened to the Band of Developers needs and will change all the nullsec ores so you can make all your sooper-dooper-boats in nullsec without any need to trading. Anyhow, you believe that the resource you collect should always translate into raw cash but you are mistaken. When I was with RAGE I always wondered so many things and the desicions they made and why and I could never figure out why we didn't do things much better.. But as always, nobody listens to the fury of New Eden - their loss. Think! You have access to x-amount of ores which you can bake into ships and modules - things your alliance buddies like to have available to them. Why would you need chash in the first place? You can make all this stuff and get some other stuff from your buddies in return, one back scratches another. And here I wonder why alliances fail.. signature
Sorra Hibra Cell Dwellers 0	Posted - 2015.04.05 17:03:36 - [23] - Quote As a player that has mined for most of my 10 yrs of Eve, I would have to say that barges/exhumers are the key to the downfall of mining. Back when you had to have an Apoch to mine it took far too much concentration to run 30 accounts.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2015.04.05 20:22:21 - [24] - Quote Have you seen Megacyte and Zydrine prices? GO MINE NOW! ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 25	Posted - 2015.04.05 20:43:45 - [25] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Have you seen Megacyte and Zydrine prices? GO MINE NOW! Already doing that ^^ but seriously I think that it's time ccp look at mining gameplay mechanics, not urgent of course (as usual with peon stuff) but really needed. A simple survey scanner proposal : post
Oshien 2nd Suns ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.04.05 22:41:34 - [26] - Quote Current Mining Implementation: Asteroids have only 1 ore type ex Veld, Dense Veld, Spod Asteroids have an exact amount of units that can be pulled from the rock Survey Scanner can be used to see how many units in the asteroid Very easy to determine isk/hr - no real "reward" feeling Some ideas for change: No more single ore Asteroids Survey scanner used on an asteroid will show veins in the rock *get a pop up that looks similar to hacking window target the vein itself *low quality lasers have very little effect on high end ores **example: Miner I > arkonor vein has very little yeild (If any) but high waste of units in the Asteroid 10 units in the vein - 1 unti mined 9 units wasted Severe penalties for off crystal strip miners example: Veldspar mining crystal used on a Arkonor Vein will have a high waste factor **High reward for correct crystals example: Arkonor crystal on an Arkonor Vein Can target different veins on the same Asteroid simultaneously Add reward to mining Once a vein is used up a new vein may open up in the asteroid possible better ores closer to the center of the asteroid new types of super high yield ore - very rare spawn - think faction spawn for miners more veins per rock the lower security space you get into Better mining cycles Have mining lasers charge up Mining lasers start with lower yields close to the start of a cycle mining amount grows until reaches optimal amount Stays at optimal until lasers are deactivated - continues until next cycle unless shut down More "collection" ticks - not just when the cycle ends I think this would make a much more interesting experience. Afking would be a lot less profitable since you would need to target the veins themselves, and have the correct crystals. Stripping out just the most valuable ores in a belt would be impossible. Sorry my thread was closed. But I was thinking if you could mine through a vein of veldspar and discover a vein of Compressed Dense Veldspar (for lack of a better idea). A lot more lucrative and would be exciting to find. I think there may be some who will still mine and it would be a lot more exciting.
thatonepersone Son's of Plunder The Marmite Collective 21	Posted - 2015.04.05 22:43:21 - [27] - Quote The solution is to make it so you can't afk mine. This would stop people players from multi-boxing 10 accounts. That alone would increase the profits for each individual account, because there wouldn't be as much ore on the market. To offset this, there would have to be a buff to mining yield and ore hold. At the very least, each individual account would be making more isk because of the lack of multi-boxers, and the market would stay the same because of the yield increase per ship. If to many players start mining it will eventually balance itself out when the profitability goes down, which will again raise the isk/hr again to somewhere inbetween.
Iain Cariaba 1228	Posted - 2015.04.05 22:48:39 - [28] - Quote thatonepersone wrote: The solution is to make it so you can't afk mine. This would stop people players from multi-boxing 10 accounts. That alone would increase the profits for each individual account, because there wouldn't be as much ore on the market. To offset this, there would have to be a buff to mining yield and ore hold. At the very least, each individual account would be making more isk because of the lack of multi-boxers, and the market would stay the same because of the yield increase per ship. If to many players start mining it will eventually balance itself out when the profitability goes down, which will again raise the isk/hr again to somewhere inbetween. The player running 10+ mining accounts is not afk mining, not anymore. Having to alt-tab between accounts to keep the ore coming in pretty much requires you to be at the keyboard. Edit: You have to love how multi-boxing miners were the bane of mining, so the need nerfed by removing ISBoxer, and now that ISBoxer is banned, multi-boxers are still the bane of mining. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better.
Oshien 2nd Suns ArK Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.04.05 22:51:48 - [29] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: thatonepersone wrote: The solution is to make it so you can't afk mine. This would stop people players from multi-boxing 10 accounts. That alone would increase the profits for each individual account, because there wouldn't be as much ore on the market. To offset this, there would have to be a buff to mining yield and ore hold. At the very least, each individual account would be making more isk because of the lack of multi-boxers, and the market would stay the same because of the yield increase per ship. If to many players start mining it will eventually balance itself out when the profitability goes down, which will again raise the isk/hr again to somewhere inbetween. The player running 10+ mining accounts is not afk mining, not anymore. Having to alt-tab between accounts to keep the ore coming in pretty much requires you to be at the keyboard. Afk these days is a general term. If he has 10 accounts he is only spending 6 mins/hr avg per account. I would consider that afk even if he is technically at the keyboard.
thatonepersone Son's of Plunder The Marmite Collective 21	Posted - 2015.04.05 22:58:34 - [30] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: thatonepersone wrote: The solution is to make it so you can't afk mine. This would stop people players from multi-boxing 10 accounts. That alone would increase the profits for each individual account, because there wouldn't be as much ore on the market. To offset this, there would have to be a buff to mining yield and ore hold. At the very least, each individual account would be making more isk because of the lack of multi-boxers, and the market would stay the same because of the yield increase per ship. If to many players start mining it will eventually balance itself out when the profitability goes down, which will again raise the isk/hr again to somewhere inbetween. The player running 10+ mining accounts is not afk mining, not anymore. Having to alt-tab between accounts to keep the ore coming in pretty much requires you to be at the keyboard. Edit: You have to love how multi-boxing miners were the bane of mining, so the need nerfed by removing ISBoxer, and now that ISBoxer is banned, multi-boxers are still the bane of mining. If you couldn't afk mine with just one account, you wouldn't be able to switch back and forth between extra characters effectively. The point is to make multi boxing not viable.



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