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Kipkruide
Quantum Dynamics
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:13:00 -
[31]
well they did want to nerf it, that means it will be worse then before. :), not as good as. ccp always overnerfs first.
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Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon Edge of Sanity
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kipkruide well they did want to nerf it, that means it will be worse then before. :), not as good as. ccp always overnerfs first.
Problem always was ships like domi's/tempest's using ECM's, never the ECM ships.
Rook *needs* its ecm strength. ----------------------------------------
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Kipkruide
Quantum Dynamics
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:25:00 -
[33]
yeah agree, the main point was that ecm was too strong across the board esp on frigs, so it would be fine if the rooks and other specced ships stayed more or less the same strength.
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AsiaFury
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:27:00 -
[34]
there goes the neighborhood. Almost every caldari/gallente/amarr fitting i have has an ecm on it, so i dont see how some are saying its a caldari problem. Now however, it is a caldari problem, the caldari ships have been nerfed into uselessness while every other race just gets to add a new midslot toy.
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AsiaFury
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Posted - 2006.10.28 15:28:00 -
[35]
I posted on the wrong aco****...
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Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon Edge of Sanity
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Posted - 2006.10.28 17:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: AsiaFury there goes the neighborhood. Almost every caldari/gallente/amarr fitting i have has an ecm on it, so i dont see how some are saying its a caldari problem. Now however, it is a caldari problem, the caldari ships have been nerfed into uselessness while every other race just gets to add a new midslot toy.
This is not a racial thing, its more a rook/blackbird/falcon problem then anything else. ----------------------------------------
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.28 18:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: AsiaFury there goes the neighborhood. Almost every caldari/gallente/amarr fitting i have has an ecm on it, so i dont see how some are saying its a caldari problem. Now however, it is a caldari problem, the caldari ships have been nerfed into uselessness while every other race just gets to add a new midslot toy.
This is not a racial thing, its more a rook/blackbird/falcon problem then anything else.
It's not over nerfed. And all the EW ships still have *PLENTY* of ECM strength when used with the ECM booster mods. One Blackbird with two booster mods jammed my Megathron about 90% of the time with two racial jammers. That seems pretty effective do me, don't you think?
Because I said so...
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Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon Edge of Sanity
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: AsiaFury there goes the neighborhood. Almost every caldari/gallente/amarr fitting i have has an ecm on it, so i dont see how some are saying its a caldari problem. Now however, it is a caldari problem, the caldari ships have been nerfed into uselessness while every other race just gets to add a new midslot toy.
This is not a racial thing, its more a rook/blackbird/falcon problem then anything else.
It's not over nerfed. And all the EW ships still have *PLENTY* of ECM strength when used with the ECM booster mods. One Blackbird with two booster mods jammed my Megathron about 90% of the time with two racial jammers. That seems pretty effective do me, don't you think?
I dont care what "That blackbird" did,
I care about statistics, actual numbers.
Even with "The mods' on, you are completely limiting the ships mentioned above.
Im asking for one thing:
"Reinstate ECM DEDICATED ships old strength"
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: AsiaFury there goes the neighborhood. Almost every caldari/gallente/amarr fitting i have has an ecm on it, so i dont see how some are saying its a caldari problem. Now however, it is a caldari problem, the caldari ships have been nerfed into uselessness while every other race just gets to add a new midslot toy.
This is not a racial thing, its more a rook/blackbird/falcon problem then anything else.
It's not over nerfed. And all the EW ships still have *PLENTY* of ECM strength when used with the ECM booster mods. One Blackbird with two booster mods jammed my Megathron about 90% of the time with two racial jammers. That seems pretty effective do me, don't you think?
I dont care what "That blackbird" did,
I care about statistics, actual numbers.
Even with "The mods' on, you are completely limiting the ships mentioned above.
Im asking for one thing:
"Reinstate ECM DEDICATED ships old strength"
I don't get it. What are you complaining about exactly? With the low slot mods the ships are just as effective as they currently are on Tranq. You saying that the ECM ships shouldn't need the low slot mods? Or that even with the low slot mods they arn't as effective as they are currently on Tranq?
Either way, it's exactly correct the way it currently is on Sisi. The low slot booster mods work great. There is nothing wrong with requiring the ECM ships to fit them to be effective. Any other questions?
Because I said so...
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starship enginer
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Posted - 2006.10.29 01:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: Kipkruide well they did want to nerf it, that means it will be worse then before. :), not as good as. ccp always overnerfs first.
Problem always was ships like domi's/tempest's using ECM's, never the ECM ships.
Rook *needs* its ecm strength.
go back to farming lvl 4 missions you have no clue about ecm which is a pvp mod
rook/scorp/falcon/balckbird are farrrr more powerfull than their counterparts
currently ingame a rook has 7.2 points to racials, with max skiklls that turns into 13.5pts, with gang mods this can be much higher.
with multispecs t2 you get 9points , your average interceptor has 9points, so a rook can jam 7 intercepters contantly currently pretty easy, and it can do this at crazy ranges, while also fitting a 1600mm plate and having some damage output
what other ship ingame comaires to the rook in turning the tide of a medium gang.
also why would anyone use a celestis over a blackbird in its current state?
nerf the crap out of ecm pls
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2006.10.29 02:15:00 -
[41]
Actually, reading the dev-blog that discussed this, CCP kinda recognizes there will be a need to do some tweaking to balance ECM regarding certain ships. Tux specifically mentioned the Blackbird and Griffon will need tweaking, so I'm pretty sure that the Rook will get a good look too.
And don't forget, this stuff is still in testing, not published on TQ yet, and I'm sure we haven't seen the final numbers on everything yet.
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Bohoba
Caldari The Dark Angles
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Posted - 2006.10.29 03:58:00 -
[42]
I would love to see the scorp in it former glory :) it should be the strongets ecm'er in the game
I mean just look at that ship it says it is :)
rook and flacon seem to be a waste other than the falcons co-0p cloak I seen no need for these ships.
but then I am hooked on the scorp and raven so :)
Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all |
cytomatrix
Caldari Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:45:00 -
[43]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Malicious Wraith
Originally by: AsiaFury there goes the neighborhood. Almost every caldari/gallente/amarr fitting i have has an ecm on it, so i dont see how some are saying its a caldari problem. Now however, it is a caldari problem, the caldari ships have been nerfed into uselessness while every other race just gets to add a new midslot toy.
This is not a racial thing, its more a rook/blackbird/falcon problem then anything else.
It's not over nerfed. And all the EW ships still have *PLENTY* of ECM strength when used with the ECM booster mods. One Blackbird with two booster mods jammed my Megathron about 90% of the time with two racial jammers. That seems pretty effective do me, don't you think?
I dont care what "That blackbird" did,
I care about statistics, actual numbers.
Even with "The mods' on, you are completely limiting the ships mentioned above.
Im asking for one thing:
"Reinstate ECM DEDICATED ships old strength"
I don't get it. What are you complaining about exactly? With the low slot mods the ships are just as effective as they currently are on Tranq. You saying that the ECM ships shouldn't need the low slot mods? Or that even with the low slot mods they arn't as effective as they are currently on Tranq?
Either way, it's exactly correct the way it currently is on Sisi. The low slot booster mods work great. There is nothing wrong with requiring the ECM ships to fit them to be effective. Any other questions?
But you are totally ignoring ECCM modules. On TQ a rook with signal dispersion lvl4, recon lvl4 couldnt jam a vexor(fitted with one eccm med slot module) with 5 compulsive multispecs reliably. Infact almost all the attempts failed. Now ecm strengths are halved even with ecm boosting low slot modules rook wouldnt able to jam a eccm fitted single target most of the time. One module to counter 5 med + 2 lows sounds pretty unbalanced to me.
Maybe some people get lucky and manage to jam a carrier in a multispec. That doesnt mean everyone is able to jam carriers with multis. Rook might need more jamming strength. I couldnt test it properly coz of the state of sisi. So i cant say Rook definitely needs a boost. ______________________________________________________________
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:04:00 -
[44]
What many people ignore is that ECM is not the only EW system. There are also damperners & tracking disruptors. When you compare it vs these the two main arguments, eccm & lack of tanking, get pretty much negated.
ECCM: There are also counter-modules for the other EW systems, so for comparing ECM towards other EW ECCM is pretty meaningless.
No tank: With the exeption of the amarr recons, which have an good tank due to the Nos (but also the most limited EW system), the other recons/t1 ew cruisers have not really a better or worse tank then the caldari recons/t1 EW cruisers.
Now, the other recons get additional boni of cource, warp disruptor, nos, webs. But the caldari recons get instead bigger boni for their racial EW: range and 50% instead 25% strength (on the rook at least). So, basically: ECM should be stronger than other EW on the caldari recons - but this only because they get bigger boni to their racial EW than other races get to their racial EW.
The obvious answer to this would be: "But that is just what is happening right now."
Nope.
The problem right now is: non-caldari recons tend to fit ECM instead of their racial EW. So, in short:
ECM without shipbonus > other EW with shipbonus
Now lets assume the caldari EW ships would only get the "small" shipbonus and not their big specialized shipbonus. This will increase the superiority of ECM eveb more.
ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus
Then on caldari EW ships as they are in the game with their big specialized shipbonus (which does NOT refer to the boosted shipbonus with kali).
ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
To conclude, current situation:
ECM without shipbonus > other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
Now, with kali ECM effeciency will be reduced but the shipbonus of specialized ships will be increased so they keep the same lvl, so we will get:
ECM without shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
Which will fix the non-cadari recons/t1 EW cruisers fitting ECM instead of their racial EW, but will do nothing to fix the broken balance between the different EW systems. To do this we would need it like this:
ECM without shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus = other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus > other EW with small shipbonus
And for this the ECM strength needs to be reduced, more heavily on non-specialized ships, but also on ECM specced ships. ECM on these would need to be at least 25% less effective as it is now.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:48:00 -
[45]
Well all the other racial ew modules are not chance based. Take a sensor dampered ew ship, fit a couple of sensor dampers and stay just out of lock range, that way you will keep your target locked down forever. The same is not possible with a rook for instance. As soon as you lose a jam cycle, you will end up dead vs. a battleship.
A chance based system is not comparable to a non chance based system in my eyes.
the ecm-based ship should stay in their current form on TQ and srew the low slot modules imo
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:56:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Well all the other racial ew modules are not chance based. Take a sensor dampered ew ship, fit a couple of sensor dampers and stay just out of lock range, that way you will keep your target locked down forever. The same is not possible with a rook for instance. As soon as you lose a jam cycle, you will end up dead vs. a battleship.
Ignoring that missing a cycle on a single BS is not really very common for a rook - not all targets are BSs. A rook vs 4 inties can basically guarantee to permajam them. Sensor damperners vs 4 inties will be utterly useless.
Also, nvmd than damperners do not work well beyond 50 km while ecm works fine to 100 km and that a cruiser or BS with a MWD will closeup to the gal recons and can lock them (they cannot run a MWD continuously).
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Statics
A.W.M
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:16:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Aramendel
Ignoring that missing a cycle on a single BS is not really very common for a rook - not all targets are BSs. A rook vs 4 inties can basically guarantee to permajam them. Sensor damperners vs 4 inties will be utterly useless.
Using rare scenarios to back why something should be nerfed to uselessness is pathetic. The problem with ECM as it is right now lies with using multispecs as a part of every PvP setup on every damn ship. Dedicated ECM ships already have enough problems with tank/DPS. Not to mention being called primary in every single engagement.
So to appease all the people going, "this one time, at band camp, back in 1994, a frig jammed my carrier with a multispec. OMGz, nerf teh ECM!!!", CCP is overnerfing the culprit. The changes are great, don't get me wrong, but don't screw the dedicated ECM pilots and their 3 or 4 ship selections. We should need to only fit ONE of these new low slot modules and have the same exact jamming strength on a Griffin, Blackbird, Rook, Scorp, and possibly Falcon. Heck, i'd say even without the new lowslot module the strength should be the same on these ECM-dedicated platforms.
Tank/DPS already sucks balls with these ships. If you don't like being jammed, fit ECCM! Everyone fits WCS to avoid be scrammed but nobody fits ECCM or backups to avoid being jammed. Well gosh, stop shooting at me becuase I don't like to fit a tank! Oh wait, I can't now because I need to fill my lows with some ghey module to make my ECM work. THANKS.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:48:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Aramendel
And, as said: right now the other recons tend to fit rather ECM than their racial EW. Do you think a gallente or minmatar recon survive longer than a rook und BS fire? And they do not get the boni on it, yet they still use it because it is better. It's about as strong as their own EW vs their preferred targets and has no loopholes unlike the other EW systems.
As I know you are aware of ecm will be so nerfed in kali, that probably not a single ship besides the ecm-based ship will use ecm. So using an argument with ecm in it's current form, to state that all other EW ships fit ecm is not really usable as they will not be doing so after kali. And as the nize fella above me said, fit eccm modules if you are afraid of getting jammed because they do work wonders. It's like arguing that warp scrambler are overpowered because you didn't manage to get away, just because you decided not to fit a warp stab.
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Namtuk
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Posted - 2006.10.29 14:54:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Namtuk on 29/10/2006 14:54:23 I think the main porblem is that some poeple will have to start thinking in combat they can`t just activate the ECM and they donŠt have to worry about being shot at. ECM heavy users will have to start to train and use other stuff and might need better weapon skills now that they can`t use there I WIN BUTTON. I fell so sorry for u poor people NOT. Try to adapt and fight with ur brains in future.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Statics If you don't like being jammed, fit ECCM! Everyone fits WCS to avoid be scrammed but nobody fits ECCM or backups to avoid being jammed.
copy-paste:
--- ECCM: There are also counter-modules for the other EW systems, so for comparing ECM towards other EW ECCM is pretty meaningless. ---
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus As I know you are aware of ecm will be so nerfed in kali, that probably not a single ship besides the ecm-based ship will use ecm. So using an argument with ecm in it's current form, to state that all other EW ships fit ecm is not really usable as they will not be doing so after kali.
Copy-paste:
---- The problem right now is: non-caldari recons tend to fit ECM instead of their racial EW. So, in short:
ECM without shipbonus > other EW with shipbonus
Now lets assume the caldari EW ships would only get the "small" shipbonus and not their big specialized shipbonus. This will increase the superiority of ECM eveb more.
ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus
Then on caldari EW ships as they are in the game with their big specialized shipbonus (which does NOT refer to the boosted shipbonus with kali).
ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
To conclude, current situation:
ECM without shipbonus > other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
Now, with kali ECM effeciency will be reduced but the shipbonus of specialized ships will be increased so they keep the same lvl, so we will get:
ECM without shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
Which will fix the non-cadari recons/t1 EW cruisers fitting ECM instead of their racial EW, but will do nothing to fix the broken balance between the different EW systems. To do this we would need it like this:
ECM without shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus = other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus > other EW with small shipbonus
And for this the ECM strength needs to be reduced, more heavily on non-specialized ships, but also on ECM specced ships. ECM on these would need to be at least 25% less effective as it is now. ----
Have fun ignoring these arguments again.
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Statics
A.W.M
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Posted - 2006.10.29 15:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Aramendel What many people ignore is that ECM is not the only EW system. There are also damperners & tracking disruptors. When you compare it vs these the two main arguments, eccm & lack of tanking, get pretty much negated.
ECCM: There are also counter-modules for the other EW systems, so for comparing ECM towards other EW ECCM is pretty meaningless.
That's crap. I don't see people crying about damps and tracking disrupters. Why? People don't use them much because they either A) don't understand tracking, B) don't understand gunnery, or C) have no clue what dampners do. Also, everyone and their brother fits sensor boosters and tracking mods anyway. If everyone fit ECCM or sensor backups as readily as people use the other two "counter-modules", there would be no complaining about ECM... oh wait, this is the EVE-O forums, nevermind that last bit.
Originally by: Namtuk I think the main porblem is that some poeple will have to start thinking in combat they can`t just activate the ECM and they donŠt have to worry about being shot at. ECM heavy users will have to start to train and use other stuff and might need better weapon skills now that they can`t use there I WIN BUTTON. I fell so sorry for u poor people NOT. Try to adapt and fight with ur brains in future.
You probably had to look up "transversal" in the dictionary so feel like you used your brain to play a video game. Grow up. I agree with the consensus that multispecs on a every other ship is almost an "I WIN" button, but this thread isn't about that. This is about the dedicated ECM ships being overnerfed. And just because you may not play the ECM role in gang/fleet warfare, don't belittle the training time and experience required to be a professional EWAR pilot by saying we now need to train some "real" skills.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 16:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Statics That's crap. I don't see people crying about damps and tracking disrupters. Why? People don't use them much because they either A) don't understand tracking, B) don't understand gunnery, or C) have no clue what dampners do. Also, everyone and their brother fits sensor boosters and tracking mods anyway. If everyone fit ECCM or sensor backups as readily as people use the other two "counter-modules", there would be no complaining about ECM... oh wait, this is the EVE-O forums, nevermind that last bit.
They use ECM more because ecm works against *everything*. SD won't be of much use against closerange ships, since those will MWD into close range anway. TDs will not do anything against missile ships and are also rather ineffective vs ACs and blasters, unless you use them vs ships bigger than your own ships. And in both cases they are rather ineffective vs smaller ships than your own, because these are faster and can easily come close to you and bypass the damperner range reduction or the reduced weaponrange of the TDs.
ECM, on the other hand has no loopholes and is contrary to the other EW modules even MORE effective vs smaller ships. And ECCM is less commonly used than sensor boosters or tracking comps, so it suffers less effeciency reduction, too.
If anything ECCM needs to be boosted to bring it on par with the other EWs anti-modules.
Quote: You probably had to look up "transversal" in the dictionary so feel like you used your brain to play a video game. Grow up. I agree with the consensus that multispecs on a every other ship is almost an "I WIN" button, but this thread isn't about that. This is about the dedicated ECM ships being overnerfed. And just because you may not play the ECM role in gang/fleet warfare, don't belittle the training time and experience required to be a professional EWAR pilot by saying we now need to train some "real" skills.
Multispecs are even more of an I-Win button on a ECM-specced ship as on a non-ECM specced ship. I am using on an arbi right now 2 multispecs and 2 TD. Want to know why? Because I cannot run 4 multispecs continuously. I doubt that a BB has a substantinally worse tank, too, it can fit an 1600mm plate just as well.
Vs the other EW systems ECM is plain out to strong, or better: it is too universally useable. The other EW systems have targets without any countermodules where they are plain out ineffective.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 18:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Aramendel
Multispecs are even more of an I-Win button on a ECM-specced ship as on a non-ECM specced ship. I am using on an arbi right now 2 multispecs and 2 TD. Want to know why? Because I cannot run 4 multispecs continuously. I doubt that a BB has a substantinally worse tank, too, it can fit an 1600mm plate just as well.
Have you tried that fitting on sisi yet, I mean fitting 2 ecm modules and seen the effect of it now? I'm pretty sure it's been nerfed so hard that you will not find any use of it at all.
Originally by: Aramendel
Vs the other EW systems ECM is plain out to strong, or better: it is too universally useable. The other EW systems have targets without any countermodules where they are plain out ineffective.
So you are saying that TD should have a severe boost, sounds good to me
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Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon Edge of Sanity
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Posted - 2006.10.29 18:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Well all the other racial ew modules are not chance based. Take a sensor dampered ew ship, fit a couple of sensor dampers and stay just out of lock range, that way you will keep your target locked down forever. The same is not possible with a rook for instance. As soon as you lose a jam cycle, you will end up dead vs. a battleship.
A chance based system is not comparable to a non chance based system in my eyes.
the ecm-based ship should stay in their current form on TQ and srew the low slot modules imo
QFT ----------------------------------------
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 19:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Have you tried that fitting on sisi yet, I mean fitting 2 ecm modules and seen the effect of it now? I'm pretty sure it's been nerfed so hard that you will not find any use of it at all.
You still miss the point. Copy-paste (this time with bolded text)
---- Now, with kali ECM effeciency will be reduced but the shipbonus of specialized ships will be increased so they keep the same lvl, so we will get:
ECM without shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus >> other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus >>> other EW with small shipbonus
Which will fix the non-cadari recons/t1 EW cruisers fitting ECM instead of their racial EW, but will do nothing to fix the broken balance between the different EW systems. To do this we would need it like this:
ECM without shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus = other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus > other EW with small shipbonus
And for this the ECM strength needs to be reduced, more heavily on non-specialized ships, but also on ECM specced ships. ECM on these would need to be at least 25% less effective as it is now. ----
Quote: So you are saying that TD should have a severe boost, sounds good to me
I am saying the the balance of ECM towards the other EW systems is broken. Boosting TD and SD would be one way to solve this, but it seems to me more than those 2 are balanced atm while ECM isn't.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 19:40:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 29/10/2006 19:41:16
Originally by: Aramendel
You still miss the point. Copy-paste (this time with bolded text)
bla
You can make all your little <<>>>>><<><<<<<< all you want, it's still just your opinion, and every single time you make a point, you are using pre ecm nerf stats which isn't what this topic is about at all. It seems more like it's this way now.
ECM without shipbonus << other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus = other EW with small shipbonus
Quote:
I am saying the the balance of ECM towards the other EW systems is broken. Boosting TD and SD would be one way to solve this, but it seems to me more than those 2 are balanced atm while ECM isn't.
If tux decided to keep the ecm-based ships with the same strenght they have now on tq, all of the EW specialized boats would be balanced.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:28:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus You can make all your little <<>>>>><<><<<<<< all you want, it's still just your opinion, and every single time you make a point, you are using pre ecm nerf stats which isn't what this topic is about at all. It seems more like it's this way now.
ECM without shipbonus << other EW with small shipbonus ECM with small shipbonus < other EW with small shipbonus ECM with big shipbonus = other EW with small shipbonus
Not if you include the lowslot ECM "damagemods".
Quote: If tux decided to keep the ecm-based ships with the same strenght they have now on tq, all of the EW specialized boats would be balanced.
*sigh*
No. See my original argumentation.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:41:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 29/10/2006 21:42:53
Originally by: Aramendel
Not if you include the lowslot ECM "damagemods".
as I already stated, nobody wants the damage mods, there is no need for them. This will nerf the ecm-based ship as you will have to sacrifice your lowslot to get somewhat close to what you had before. It's like nerfing the hell out of TD or SD and those dedicated ships and then get them to use all their lowslots to get the same values again. it's just plain stupid, as there is no need for it. ECM is not overpowered on decidated ships. Fit eccm if you feel that you need to be safe, and those modules WILL keep you safe from jamming
Quote:
*sigh*
No. See my original argumentation.
your original argument was shot to pieces by statics, so no reason to read or comment on it again
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Alexander Knott
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:58:00 -
[59]
I will say that I find it puzzling that ECM ships are required to give up low slots to maintain their jamming strength since these slots have traditionally been used to keep ECM ships from popping instantly when they come under fire. I would have much preferred an option that sacrificed offensive power. Someone mentioned simply making ECM modules take high slots, which I thought was a fairly nifty idea.
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Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon Edge of Sanity
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Posted - 2006.10.29 23:33:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Alexander Knott I will say that I find it puzzling that ECM ships are required to give up low slots to maintain their jamming strength since these slots have traditionally been used to keep ECM ships from popping instantly when they come under fire. I would have much preferred an option that sacrificed offensive power. Someone mentioned simply making ECM modules take high slots, which I thought was a fairly nifty idea.
That is a much better idea.
Even with the low slots for stopping them from popping instantly it is still *very* easy to pop them though.
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