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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
37
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 04:19:49 -
[61] - Quote
crosi talking to you always feels like talking to a child
heres the difference between my post and your post
me:
crosi is a nerd (hilarious comment completely unrelated to the bulk of my post meant solely for my own amusement)
criticism of garmur which is related to the thread (this is the main point of my post)
crosi:
wow you are mad lol so hostile (this is you completely missing the point of my post while simultaneously trying to sound like an intellectual but in reality you just come off as stupid)
as for my rifter example, once again you completely miss the point
i made a hypothetical situation to analogize the creation of the garmur/t3 dessies to the HYPOTHETICAL creation of a super-rifter
this has NOTHING to do with how the rifter was eventually "balanced"
edit: however if you'd like we can compare and contrast the ways in which these two situations were handled
rifter is overpowered: buff all the other ships in its class (ok sounds good)
kiting ship supremacy: lets create even stronger kiting ships (funny because its so ********) |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 04:46:25 -
[62] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:crosi talking to you always feels like talking to a child
heres the difference between my post and your post
me:
crosi is a nerd (hilarious comment completely unrelated to the bulk of my post meant solely for my own amusement)
criticism of garmur which is related to the thread (this is the main point of my post)
crosi:
wow you are mad lol so hostile (this is you completely missing the point of my post while simultaneously trying to sound like an intellectual but in reality you just come off as stupid)
as for my rifter example, once again you completely miss the point
i made a hypothetical situation to analogize the creation of the garmur/t3 dessies to the HYPOTHETICAL creation of a super-rifter
this has NOTHING to do with how the rifter was eventually "balanced"
edit: however if you'd like we can compare and contrast the ways in which these two situations were handled
rifter is overpowered: buff all the other ships in its class (ok sounds good)
kiting ship supremacy: lets create even stronger kiting ships (funny because its so ********)
Its more like;
You 'haha, you mastubate and i dont. And eve is really upsetting me becase some ships are better at some things than others'
Me 'you seem to be very focussed on my mastubatorial habits, i wonder why? And some ships are supposed to be better at some things than others.
Rifter is a much better brawler than my garmur for example, should we nerf the rifter of buff my garmur? I personally think that players should use skill to get into the stuations that their ship is suited for.
As for kiting being supreme, ask any decent dram pilot what they think of that notion. |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
37
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 04:59:19 -
[63] - Quote
i swear to god crosi i cant tell if you really are this dumb or youre trolling the pants off of my head
"As for kiting being supreme, ask any decent dram pilot what they think of that notion."
okay so one ship can counter the condor/hookbill that was maybe decent back before the garmur existed. but still rather stupid that people had to bring out an expensive pirate frigate in order to counter a 10 mil fit condor...
now that the garmur is in play a dram cant do ****. defensive scram completely shuts down a dram
lets look at the other supposed mongoloid counters you spat out
Sentinel, reduces margin for error to minimal levels. lol wtf is a sentinel gonna do to a garmur?
Cruor, reduces margin for error. once again wtf is a cruor gonna do?
Hyena, reduces margin for error. ....are you being serious?
Dramiel, faster, tankier and more dps. nope defensive scram
Multiple sniper corms or area denial coercers. so the solution is to blob?
Element of surprise with an OH dual overdrive derptron gets a lot of people garmur kills. nope defensive scram |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
254
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 05:02:56 -
[64] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Because the Worm and Garmur go from really good without links to god mode with them. I don't think we need god mode rewards for bittervets. A ship that punches out 130 DPS with light missiles at 70k with a point at the same range and can hold orbit at 8k m/s is too much. Likewise a linked snaked worm can probably top 6k cold with 200 DPS drones each having the EHP of an interceptor. Having spent a huge amount of time playing this game should not entitle you to a win button. The cumulative advantage in SP, assets, and experience is enough.
eh, Worm's not really that unreasonable, I've seen solo kills by dessies and plenty of 2-3 man gangs can take them down. I think hot drone DPS is a recipe for overconfidence and the hull ranks under the Hawk in terms of tank potential so those factors naturally increase risk. Garmur is a whole new ship though, maybe threads like this will emphasize the need to tweak it. It would be nice if it got a speed nerf to bring it in line with Caldari combat frigs. Hardly seems fair to give a ship all the best aspects of both a combat frig and also an attack frig. With the slot layout it already has, a speed buff would still keep it at better stats than the Hookbill, that should be enough to balance it with the rest of the pirate frigs.
I assume you're talking about brawl worms. I didn't realize those existed.
Kite worm is too fast, I have one I use with galmil frigate fleets sometimes that with links does 4600 m/s cold. That is with only 5-10% in speed implants. It's not nearly as bad as the garmur though. 70k point on a frigate that can send 130 dps out to the edge of that envelope seems excessive.
I'm sure if I had played longer and had invested in a booster alt and a super shiny pod I would also enjoy having a godmode ship, but meh.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 05:14:01 -
[65] - Quote
atron can easily counter kite condor, same with the comet and kite hb. Both atron and comet are faster than their counterparts. |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
37
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 05:25:19 -
[66] - Quote
ive killed countless garmurs by being the initial point/scram with a ceptor, which then was followed with a blob
doesnt mean the ship is balanced
if you even bothered to read any of the posts you respond to you would see that my contention is not that garmurs are invincible; my contention is that garmurs (and orthrus and t3 dessies for that matter) are conceptually flawed. anti-fun. blob-encouraging. damaging to the solo/smallgang meta.
they shouldnt exist. they take a problem (the kiting supremacy) and exacerbate it. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 05:29:15 -
[67] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:ive killed countless garmurs by being the initial point/scram with a ceptor, which then was followed with a blob
doesnt mean the ship is balanced
if you even bothered to read any of the posts you respond to you would see that my contention is not that garmurs are invincible; my contention is that garmurs (and orthrus and t3 dessies for that matter) are conceptually flawed. anti-fun. blob-encouraging. damaging to the solo/smallgang meta.
they shouldnt exist. they take a problem (the kiting supremacy) and exacerbate it.
I have read your posts. As i have said, they boil down to 'haha. You mastubate. I dont. And eve is not fair because there is more than one type of ship'.
More shiny ships in space is a good thing. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
1849
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 05:46:24 -
[68] - Quote
Confirming I mastubate. |
Corail Amber
AdAstra. Beach Club
25
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 06:21:47 -
[69] - Quote
Links are the problem, not kiting.
And because links emphasizes so much with Garmur bonuses (cumulative point/scramble bonuses, no need to worry about ******* up your own tracking by going too fast, already high base speed going through the roof) a linked Garmur is literally nothing else but an incentive to blob. In that way I agree with wilgotna.
However you take away the links with a Garmur and suddenly marging of error becomes thin, because even with a defensive scram it is very possible to get caught.
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Dreaded Vengance
CTRL-Q Spaceship Bebop
69
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 09:11:44 -
[70] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Confirming I mastubate.
Eyes closed, thinking about Garmurs?
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Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
1850
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 13:52:18 -
[71] - Quote
Dreaded Vengance wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Confirming I mastubate. Eyes closed, thinking about Garmurs?
Thinking about Crosi in Garmurs. |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
118
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 05:20:58 -
[72] - Quote
Garmur without links, balanced.
Garmur with links, broken.
All else being equal, nothing, bar cruisers and up, will solo a linked garmur. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 09:28:42 -
[73] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote: All else being equal, nothing, bar cruisers and up, will solo a linked garmur.
lolno |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
119
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 17:10:55 -
[74] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote: All else being equal, nothing, bar cruisers and up, will solo a linked garmur.
lolno
This is a little stifled with no example. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 18:59:31 -
[75] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote: All else being equal, nothing, bar cruisers and up, will solo a linked garmur.
lolno This is a little stifled with no example.
Which is better than just being wrong. |
Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
433
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:41:20 -
[76] - Quote
"Your lame way of playing is lamer then my lame way of playing." - Dread Operative for CSM |
Plato Forko
Percussive Diplomacy
150
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:52:18 -
[77] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Garmur without links, balanced.
Garmur with links and 200m in faction mods and 500m+ in implants, broken.
All else being equal, nothing, bar cruisers and up, will solo a linked garmur.
FTFY, because why stop at links and still run the slight risk that your 100m frigate might get blapped when you can go APESHIT and GUARANTEE no risk! |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
39
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 00:59:17 -
[78] - Quote
crosi trolls so hard i dunno why hes not permabanned from this forum
he just blurts out his worthless opinion, then trolls anyone who disagrees with him by acting condescending and/or constantly straw manning their arguments
linked/snaked garmur's only real counter is ANOTHER linked/snaked garmur (and then its whichever one has the better fit for 1v1 smashing eachother) OR a linked/snaked ceptor with a blob for backup
to crosi: when you lose garmurs to atrons and other stupid **** it's not because the garmur has counters. its because youre a bad pilot who only flies the most risk-averse ships with a 3bil+ pod and a loki boosting you at all times |
Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
433
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 02:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
wilgotna wrote: a loki boosting you at all times
He doesn't use a Loki all the time, sometimes it's a Proteus. Jeez get your facts straight. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 07:28:53 -
[80] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:wilgotna wrote: a loki boosting you at all times He doesn't use a Loki all the time, sometimes it's a Proteus. Jeez get your facts straight.
I actually never use a loki.
And well done wil, you managed to get super angry at someones opinion WITHOUT commenting on their masturbatorial habits. I think we have turned a corner! |
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Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
119
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 15:11:01 -
[81] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote: All else being equal, nothing, bar cruisers and up, will solo a linked garmur.
lolno This is a little stifled with no example. Which is better than just being wrong.
If there's an argument in there somewhere, I'm not finding it convincing. |
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic Space Warriors
854
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 15:25:39 -
[82] - Quote
you guys are hopeless |
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic Space Warriors
854
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 15:30:01 -
[83] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Garmurs would be alot more reasonable without offgrid links. i do not see how links affect anything on ship balance. Because the Worm and Garmur go from really good without links to god mode with them. I don't think we need god mode rewards for bittervets. A ship that punches out 130 DPS with light missiles at 70k with a point at the same range and can hold orbit at 8k m/s is too much. Likewise a linked snaked worm can probably top 6k cold with 200 DPS drones each having the EHP of an interceptor. Having spent a huge amount of time playing this game should not entitle you to a win button. The cumulative advantage in SP, assets, and experience is enough.
now if you use links too it is not problem to tank 200dps for a long time, also using example ship with web range bonus with faction webs and using link boost and heat you sure can web them. Eve is about choices and more choices is always better than only one. |
Lug Muad'Dib
Wise Humans Sword
40
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 15:59:21 -
[84] - Quote
Pilot like Crosi are OP, not the Garmur. If you need a blob to kill a garmur.. two fast 3m isk atron can kill a garmur with def scram, try this versus a worm..
Garmur has lot of counter and great gtfo capacity, more with snake and links, like many other ships..
D-Scan immunity is dumb.
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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
39
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 17:29:28 -
[85] - Quote
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:Pilot like Crosi are OP, not the Garmur. If you need a blob to kill a garmur.. two fast 3m isk atron can kill a garmur with def scram, try this versus a worm.. Garmur has lot of counter and great gtfo capacity, more with snake and links, like many other ships..
No the garmur is op precisely because a super nerd like crosi can use a 3 bil pod and an off grid booster
Eve has an incredibly low skillcap. Any mongo can use a snaked/linked garmur and hit orbit.
Even his garmur fits just screams scared nerd. |
Arla Sarain
393
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 17:37:38 -
[86] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:Lug Muad'Dib wrote:Pilot like Crosi are OP, not the Garmur. If you need a blob to kill a garmur.. two fast 3m isk atron can kill a garmur with def scram, try this versus a worm.. Garmur has lot of counter and great gtfo capacity, more with snake and links, like many other ships.. No the garmur is op precisely because a super nerd like crosi can use a 3 bil pod and an off grid booster Eve has an incredibly low skillcap. Any mongo can use a snaked/linked garmur and hit orbit. Even his garmur fits just screams scared nerd. I hate linked garmurs... linked anything as much as the next guy.
But you sound like crosi is your secret crush and its an unrequited love. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 17:46:36 -
[87] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:wilgotna wrote:
No the garmur is op precisely because a super nerd like crosi can use a 3 bil pod and an off grid booster
Eve has an incredibly low skillcap. Any mongo can use a snaked/linked garmur and hit orbit.
Even his garmur fits just screams scared nerd.
I hate linked garmurs... linked anything as much as the next guy. But you sound like crosi is your secret crush and its an unrequited love.
He makes a valid point, because of edge cases like the amount of isk a handful of people put into pvp, the entire game should be rebalanced.
The only thing i can recall about wilgotna is he was just as bitter at me when i flew only maulus for a year lol.
Lots of people, in and out of game, lack the introspection to apply the same standards to people they dislike (for whatever reason) as they do to those they like, or particularly themselves. We have an acute case here. |
Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
434
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 18:33:36 -
[88] - Quote
Quote:.... because of edge cases like the amount of isk a handful of people put into pvp, the entire game should be rebalanced.
Lots of people, in and out of game, lack the introspection to apply the same standards to people they dislike (for whatever reason) as they do to those they like, or particularly themselves. We have an acute case here.
So much win in this statment, if people are willing to risk the isk and have the SP, who are we to bad mouth them? Heaven forbid a whole Corp does it though, cause then it's easy mode..... Complimant and tongue in cheek in the same post. I like. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 18:54:10 -
[89] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Quote:.... because of edge cases like the amount of isk a handful of people put into pvp, the entire game should be rebalanced.
Lots of people, in and out of game, lack the introspection to apply the same standards to people they dislike (for whatever reason) as they do to those they like, or particularly themselves. We have an acute case here. So much win in this statment, if people are willing to risk the isk and have the SP, who are we to bad mouth them? Heaven forbid a whole Corp does it though, cause then it's easy mode..... Complimant and tongue in cheek in the same post. I like.
Challenge can only be measured against the task. When you have an 80 man t3/guard fleet all with lg/hg slaves, with caps and supers on standby to fight 40 t1 bs and another 40 cruisers who only fly together on that scale once or less per week (and 1/3 are fail-fit), that really is a good shot at easy mode. Specially when you guys only undock when you have eyes on the target.
Im not complaining, im just saying its easy mode. Ive been there.
If you wanted to draw any parallel from what im talking about, i fight any number of people. It would be like snufds 80 man fleet fighting anywhere from 160 to 1000s of people since i often look for kills while massively outnumbered in the garmur. |
Arla Sarain
394
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 19:22:39 -
[90] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: because of edge cases like the amount of isk a handful of people put into pvp, the entire game should be rebalanced.
The game should be rebalanced because if it isn't its going to snowball into that direction, as it did with T3Ds. Garmurs just have a higher entry threshold which is why it isn't too late.
The snowballs comes from the fact that even if something costs a lot of cash, and has high prerequisites, it doesn't matter how edge the case is, because it's going to become more common, since it's worth the large investment.
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