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wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
39
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Posted - 2015.05.07 05:47:27 -
[151] - Quote
i have killed more garmurs than anyone in this whole thread
yet i still firmly say that they are overpowered
you keep repeating yourself so i will keep repeating myself
yes garmurs can be killed, especially if they are flown poorly
that does not change that they are overpowered |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3869
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Posted - 2015.05.07 06:24:08 -
[152] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:i have killed more garmurs than anyone in this whole thread Killing your alt on SiSi doesn't really count.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Ahed Sten
5
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Posted - 2015.05.07 06:55:46 -
[153] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:i have killed more garmurs than anyone in this whole thread
Link KB or it didn't happen.
The only thing OP about the Garmur is the amount of whining people do about it. |
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4500
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:36:48 -
[154] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Burtakus
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
32
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:46:02 -
[155] - Quote
Lots of interesting perspectives.
I personally love that there are Garmurs and Worms in the game. They generate wonderful killmails, I collect lots of valuable faction/DED loot, and the most precious thing of all are the tears of rage I harvest when I kill them solo in a Comet.
I fly with links and implants for 2 reasons: 1) To kill the Garmurs/Worms of EVE 2) To take on 1 v many since true even ground 1 v 1 is about as rare as sighting a unicorn in my front yard
So please CCP, keep putting "OP" ships in the game so I can continue to fill the jars of tears. |
James Zimmer
Furtherance.
15
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Posted - 2015.05.09 15:14:50 -
[156] - Quote
I think the issue with Garmurs and Othri (I'm not so sure with T3Ds, especially after the nerf) is that they aren't kiters anymore, they're a hybrid between snipers, kiters and Gallente recons with all the strengths of those classes and none of the weaknesses ( Ok, they don't have T2 resists, but other than that...).
For example, if I was going to fight a sniper, I would concentrate on getting under its guns with something fast, which is taking advantage of the relatively slow speed and poor tracking of most snipers, or if I was slow and couldn't do that, I'd just warp off. You can't do that with a Garmur or Orthrus because they apply damage and move like an excellent kiter, and have a Gallente recon point to prevent you from warping.
If I was fighting a kiter, his margin of error is tiny and his speed is somewhat limited by his fairly tight orbit. I would try to take advatange of the slightest mistake and get within brawling range, or, if I couldn't do that, simply out-DPS and out-tank him using drones and whatever I can get out of turrets or missiles. You can't do that against a Garmur or Orthrus because they fight at sniper ranges. The margin of error is huge, and there is nothing preventing the ship from flying at near max speed while orbiting. It would take a massive mistake on his part for me to brawl him. At long range, short range guns won't do anything, missiles probably won't make it that far, light drones will struggle to keep up and most long-range guns probably lack the tracking or range to hit reliably.
If I was fighting a Gallente recon... Well, Gallente recons just aren't very strong on their own and there are a lot of valid strategies to take them down or get away from them. Not so with Garmurs and Orthri, as I've already explained.
So how do you fight Mordu ships? An anti-Mordu meta. Tracking-enhanced, long range guns, speed-enhanced drone setups, or a heavy neut Curse, maybe with damps or ECM to boot. Hit hard and fast enough against these flimsy ships and the lack of a point won't matter. The only issue is that in small gangs or solo, this meta is vulnerable to almost everything but extreme kiters like Mordu, while Mordu are vulnerable to basicly nothing but these very specific metas.
Bottomline: Are Mordu ships balanced? No, not at all. |
James Zimmer
Furtherance.
15
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Posted - 2015.05.09 15:56:56 -
[157] - Quote
wilgotna wrote: the new t3ds are like a sick joke. why fly any assault frigate, dessie or t1 cruiser anymore when a t3d can rip all of them with ease?
How exactly can a T3D "rip" a Stabber? T3Ds generally have lower speed, lower EHP and lower DPS.
Or an Arbitraror, when it can TD the ship down to pathetic range and then nuet and drone it to death.
Or a Vexor, that can simply out DPS and out-tank it.
I think that T3Ds were OP, but I saw a lot of them die to small frgate gangs and solo T1 cruisers because people played them like cruisers, rather than the somewhat flimsy destroyers that they are. As for them replacing assault frigs, maybe they do, but maybe a slower, higher DPS frigate should just be a destroyer instead, and maybe there's something more interesting that could be done with T2 frigates. |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
40
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Posted - 2015.05.09 16:16:49 -
[158] - Quote
your post just screams that you have no idea what the t3ds are capable of. probably because you dont pvp very much
when i log in i see tons of t3ds derping around all day. yet nobody is flying AFs, dessies, or t1 cruisers anymore.
i wonder why |
James Zimmer
Furtherance.
15
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Posted - 2015.05.09 18:28:06 -
[159] - Quote
I would guess it's because they can fit in small faction warfare plexes (and I'll agree that they're very OP for that), and they're the new shiny thing. I think the fact that you could fit them with with 10mn ABs and didn't have to seriously gimp your fit to do it was a problem. I'll be interested to see if the nerf fixed it. I've watched videos of people wreck T3Ds in T1 cruisers, and I've watched my friends do it live (from a pod, I was flying T1 logi and they managed to kill me almost before the fight began due to my bad piloting). Maybe I'm biased, but when I look at the numbers and I look at them in action, I don't see them as insanely OP.
Now if you want to see balance issues, look at a T3 cruiser vs. a T1 battlecruiser. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
3901
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Posted - 2015.05.10 07:17:01 -
[160] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:when i log in i see (...) Because your station has windows?
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Arla Sarain
438
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Posted - 2015.05.10 21:26:23 -
[161] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:wilgotna wrote:when i log in i see (...) Because your station has windows? Not enough ice-belts in the game to treat this burn. |
Angry Ex
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.05.11 04:07:12 -
[162] - Quote
Saw a newbro in help chat asking how to fit a garmur and asking how to fly it in pvp.
Folks said " don't fly that, they're expensive and you should skill up first". He replies, "it's OK, I bought 10 of them".
Thread is popular. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2015.05.11 13:06:35 -
[163] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Combat is still one dimensional within scram range.
And the margins between AB and MWD are the difference between black and white. There is very few moment to moment tactics you can employ when in a fight; fit determines what you can fight, which is rather narrow. A fight ends up in the opposing parties knowing the outcome and one party just waiting 60s to lose a ship.
This is true.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2015.05.11 13:27:45 -
[164] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:That doesn't really help the argument that they are not OP, as 111,134 ships have been destroyed by Garmurs. Do the math and you find that 7500 is a rather low loss rate compared to the damage it has done.
Not saying I'm against the Garmur, but those stats are not a good comparison to show the ship is not OP That's because I wasn't arguing that the Garmur isn't OP, I was pointing out that it creates content. Thus, it's good for the game. For example, compare the Garmur's zkill stats to another fairly OP ship (if you consider frigate 1v1s): the Sentinel. Less kills, many more losses, but overall much less used than the Garmur, for whatever reason. As Leokokim pointed out in the above post, the Garmur is arguably OP but it doesn't break the game. Why? Because it's used almost exclusively in 'for fun' PVP (solo/small gang) where it's the players that decide whether to fly it / engage it or not (aka 'the meta'). Fleet boats such as the Ishtar are another matter, because they're often flown not just 'for the lulz' but to secure in-game objectives (such as SOV battles). In this case, having an OP ship is not so good simply because everyone will want to use it (to secure their objective) over other alternatives, thus making the game a bit dull. I frankly don't see everyone flying Garmurs... Yeah, I have no problem with Garmurs. Was just pointing out, and as Crosi explained, that stats really don't help with the balance argument. My personal solution to Garmurs, don't engage them.
And get garmur pilots upset enough to call you a dirty farmer cause you never engage? And thus they come onto the forums to spread tears about FW farming because people always run from them?
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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