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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2302
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 09:20:40 -
[1] - Quote
The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm).
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Mag's
the united
19308
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 09:31:37 -
[2] - Quote
It's getting fixed, but it's long old code.
But a picture of you on a motorbike giving them a stern look, may help.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2055
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Posted - 2015.04.18 09:42:19 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2302
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 09:56:54 -
[4] - Quote
Before someone comes in with EvE is already EVE 5 or some other rediculous dev comment that's been made in the past I'll point out a flaw in the game which is not able to or is likely too difficult or expensive to be changed and which is a legacy issue from the early days when chips were slower and memory was smaller:
Gate travel. Gate travel is basically legacy MMO zone switching. The majority of MMO's have adapted to use fully open worlds / universes with minimal zone switching. Zone switching is bad. Seemless travel is great.
Instead of jumping from one gate - loading screen - to another you simply hit the gate you warp and seamlessly enter the next system.
Additionally instead of jumping from system a, to b, to c, to d you jump from a to d, traveling in warp through b and c without having to rewarp. If it takes now 10 minutes to move your ship through a, b, c to d then you are in warp for the same amount of time or less able to interact (scan, local list, chat) as you transition and given such travel would require predictable shipping lanes such shipping lanes could be seeded with warp disruptors that could bring a ship out of warp dynamically as needed by players rather than by gates every time even when systems are not being interdicted.
The game is full of this type of old messy functionality.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2302
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 09:58:21 -
[5] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression Lol how would it ruin everyones progress? Traditionally first generation games continue to be populated and are not closed down when new versions are released (EQ1 = EQ2 etc).
If you want to be stuck in the past that's cool
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
48
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Posted - 2015.04.18 10:35:18 -
[6] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm).
Do you honestly believe that current CCP in current times, having lost all of its evil PKing non-PC bastards and now is filled with miners and managers, would again make a cutthroat open pvp sandbox based on Darwinism?
Excellence is an attitude.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1335
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 10:53:47 -
[7] - Quote
Ivarr Kerensky wrote:Do you honestly believe that current CCP in current times, having lost all of its evil PKing non-PC bastards and now is filled with miners and managers, would again make a cutthroat open pvp sandbox based on Darwinism? In the age of Angry Bird, Farmville, COD and similar challenging games? No.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
172
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Posted - 2015.04.18 10:59:02 -
[8] - Quote
Removing gates would remove terrain based borders. It'd remove chockpoints and blockades.
You're look for this. |
Sovauthority Sov-Rus
The BlackHand Order The Bloc
7
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Posted - 2015.04.18 11:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Instead of jumping from one gate - loading screen - to another you simply hit the gate you warp and seamlessly enter the next system.
Additionally instead of jumping from system a, to b, to c, to d you jump from a to d, traveling in warp through b and c without having to rewarp. If it takes now 10 minutes to move your ship through a, b, c to d then you are in warp for the same amount of time or less able to interact (scan, local list, chat) as you transition and given such travel would require predictable shipping lanes.
Well that sounds.. awful.. imagine that.. warping for 10 minutes.. Most MMOs today still have loading screens, there's no legacy in that. The Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, etc I can name many. And stargates are like.. essential for transport.. it makes perfect sense, as well as if you're doing escalations, and have to travel through lowsec, then what is the threat if just warping from A - D? This game runs smoother than the newly released X4 Space Sim..
And the reason for subscription IS the updates.. and it's perfectly normal to have a hotfix or two after the patch. The Engines are constantly updates, high resolution textures are coming, you should be happy CCP even releases monthly updates. Some games like Anarchy-Online have been waiting 8! EIGHT! Years for a new graphics engine, and see an update like once every 6 months!.. If they start working on Eve-Online 2 today lets say, when you're done you'll without a doubt have grandkds by then. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
172
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 11:20:30 -
[10] - Quote
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2.103LY+%2F+%281.5AU%2Fs%29
It would literally take more than a day for a freighter to fly from Jita to Perimeter. Clearly, warp speed it going to need to be revisited for this idea to not bore the hell out of everyone.
But how do you do that without breaking intra-system warping? |
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Ivarr Kerensky
Kerensky Tactical Group
48
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 11:50:59 -
[11] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Ivarr Kerensky wrote:Do you honestly believe that current CCP in current times, having lost all of its evil PKing non-PC bastards and now is filled with miners and managers, would again make a cutthroat open pvp sandbox based on Darwinism? In the age of Angry Bird, Farmville, COD and similar challenging games? No.
Exactly.
Excellence is an attitude.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9353
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 12:26:41 -
[12] - Quote
iz, its ok to give up you know, if you don't actually like eve ill gladly ensure your stuff is sold on the market err... given a lovley home.
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Mag's
the united
19312
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 12:41:51 -
[13] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:iz, its ok to give up you know, if you don't actually like eve ill gladly ensure your stuff is sold on the market err... given a lovley home. One can hope. But looking at it's past history and the last rage quit, I have my doubts.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9354
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 12:44:45 -
[14] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:iz, its ok to give up you know, if you don't actually like eve ill gladly ensure your stuff is sold on the market err... given a lovley home. One can hope. But looking at it's past history and the last rage quit, I have my doubts. that was easily the funniest thread i have read here in the last two years, by a large margine
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2716
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 13:00:33 -
[15] - Quote
How long before OP ragequits this time?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3216
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 13:13:01 -
[16] - Quote
Dear CCP,
please throw out your baby with the bath water.
Yours sincerely, A Bad Poster.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
102
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 14:11:08 -
[17] - Quote
I've tried this before...
Eve is 10 (TEN) years old...
The UI update we deserve
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
351
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:05:12 -
[18] - Quote
You remind me of certain individuals that ask BIS for a new game engine whenever a new OFP/ArmA installment comes out.
As in that case, as it is here, these people are delusional, because these very cranky & "old" engines and concepts made the games succeed in the first place. All you can do now is to build upon this.
I would call this year's Summer expansions Eve Online III, for they are the harbingers for the next coming Great Eve War.
https://eveinfo.net/wiki/inde~405.htm https://eveinfo.net/wiki/inde~406.htm
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1418
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:11:55 -
[19] - Quote
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
Was linked by a CCP dev in a thread about this exact same topic.
Although the OP back then was considerably less whiny than this one. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
351
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:21:53 -
[20] - Quote
That is a good article, Anhenka.
If anyone is wondering, the current player PCU levels, which are back to 2008 levels - http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility can be attributed largely to the long-running Nullsec Sov, which had "peak fun" probably around the year 2013.
It is now being replaced with a new system, that doesn't revolve around grinding structure HP. I highly recommend watching Fozzie's Fanfest sov presentation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao20T98MoMk
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
897
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 15:34:22 -
[21] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm).
I suggest using that 10,000 to sort out a new car for your kid, it sounds terrible.
(On a related note, what country gives 10 year olds driving licenses, I need to go there.)
Lastly, have you complained to Blizzard that the most popular MMO of all time is too old and they need to make WoW2?
Friends
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
356
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 16:16:08 -
[22] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm). I suggest using that 10,000 to sort out a new car for your kid, it sounds terrible.
Is so good that the thread just ended.
I blame my attention to punctuation for not spotting it.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
63
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 16:32:36 -
[23] - Quote
I will say there are much better space games out there matter in fact EVE is barely passable as a good one. that said what none of these game or any other will offer is 52,000,000 player multi player.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2302
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 16:49:05 -
[24] - Quote
Sovauthority Sov-Rus wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Instead of jumping from one gate - loading screen - to another you simply hit the gate you warp and seamlessly enter the next system.
Additionally instead of jumping from system a, to b, to c, to d you jump from a to d, traveling in warp through b and c without having to rewarp. If it takes now 10 minutes to move your ship through a, b, c to d then you are in warp for the same amount of time or less able to interact (scan, local list, chat) as you transition and given such travel would require predictable shipping lanes. Well that sounds.. awful.. imagine that.. warping for 10 minutes.. Most MMOs today still have loading screens, there's no legacy in that. The Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, etc I can name many. And stargates are like.. essential for transport.. it makes perfect sense, as well as if you're doing escalations, and have to travel through lowsec, then what is the threat if just warping from A - D? This game runs smoother than the newly released X4 Space Sim.. And the reason for subscription IS the updates.. and it's perfectly normal to have a hotfix or two after the patch. The Engines are constantly updates, high resolution textures are coming, you should be happy CCP even releases monthly updates. Some games like Anarchy-Online have been waiting 8! EIGHT! Years for a new graphics engine, and see an update like once every 6 months!.. If they start working on Eve-Online 2 today lets say, when you're done you'll without a doubt have grandkds by then. Yeah because warping for 10 minutes is so much less exciting than warping and gate jumping for 10 minutes. I know when I'm flying a freighter I get super excited by all the gate jumps I need to make.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
356
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:02:57 -
[25] - Quote
The answer is server load distribution & compartmentalisation of risk - Whole nodes going down takes a couple of systems with them, compared to bringing down whole regions.
I do like the idea of "pockets", or even mini-constellations in one "system". No idea how feasible it is to combine 3 separate systems into one such pocket, but warping past two different stars would be so cool.
Also, if you account for the distance between star systems in the real world, you'd come up with areas that would make Thera look like a short walk in the park.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Madd Adda
71
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:18:01 -
[26] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Yeah because warping for 10 minutes is so much less exciting than warping and gate jumping for 10 minutes. I know when I'm flying a freighter I get super excited by all the gate jumps I need to make.
yet you don't understand the lore of why we jump. The distance between gates it too great to warp between. You may as well ask for map travel in eve.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Iain Cariaba
1277
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:18:24 -
[27] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:(insert butthurt whine post here) OP, follow these easy instructions to never be bothered with tedious, antiquated zone changes ever again. 1. Log into the game with each character you have. 2. Contract all posessions of those characters to me. 3. Transfer all wallet balances to me. 4. Biomass all characters. 5. Log into account management and unsubscribe each account, being sure to inform CCP in the exit survey how much they ruined your gameplay by not abandoning an established game and alienating their existing player base, because you said so. 6. Never log into Eve Online again. Seriously, we won't miss you.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
359
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:41:44 -
[28] - Quote
Always thought that Eve's warp mechanics closely related to Independence War II: Edge of Chaos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVCNKEY8ojw&t=8m27s
Fixed warpable objects with inter-stellar travel via wormholes.
Great game!
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 18:10:24 -
[29] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Sovauthority Sov-Rus wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Instead of jumping from one gate - loading screen - to another you simply hit the gate you warp and seamlessly enter the next system.
Additionally instead of jumping from system a, to b, to c, to d you jump from a to d, traveling in warp through b and c without having to rewarp. If it takes now 10 minutes to move your ship through a, b, c to d then you are in warp for the same amount of time or less able to interact (scan, local list, chat) as you transition and given such travel would require predictable shipping lanes. Well that sounds.. awful.. imagine that.. warping for 10 minutes.. Most MMOs today still have loading screens, there's no legacy in that. The Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, etc I can name many. And stargates are like.. essential for transport.. it makes perfect sense, as well as if you're doing escalations, and have to travel through lowsec, then what is the threat if just warping from A - D? This game runs smoother than the newly released X4 Space Sim.. And the reason for subscription IS the updates.. and it's perfectly normal to have a hotfix or two after the patch. The Engines are constantly updates, high resolution textures are coming, you should be happy CCP even releases monthly updates. Some games like Anarchy-Online have been waiting 8! EIGHT! Years for a new graphics engine, and see an update like once every 6 months!.. If they start working on Eve-Online 2 today lets say, when you're done you'll without a doubt have grandkds by then. Yeah because warping for 10 minutes is so much less exciting than warping and gate jumping for 10 minutes. I know when I'm flying a freighter I get super excited by all the gate jumps I need to make.
Gate travel is not only to have different areas, it is forced player interaction that the risk adverse would completely bypass if they could. Surprisingly, some people don't want risk or player interaction in this MMO, an mmo with the reputation of risk, reward and excitement.
I fly freighters and I do find some jumps exciting. Some are very exciting. Exciting or not,players using gates are content. They are visible and can be interacted with, whereas if getting to jita from rens was just align, warp and wait, only outposts would have visible numbers of players to show that a player is not alone in a populated game.
What's more, it would de-populate systems not containing: massive amounts of ore, mission hubs, market hubs, wormholes, sov structures, and gankable targets.
Tl;Dr travel mechanic changes you have outlined would avoid social intercourse, and that is bad for an mmo that focuses on players interaction for its content and evolution.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, its just a game
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9358
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 18:29:48 -
[30] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:(insert butthurt whine post here) OP, follow these easy instructions to never be bothered with tedious, antiquated zone changes ever again. 1. Log into the game with each character you have. 2. Contract all posessions of those characters to me. 3. Transfer all wallet balances to me. 4. Biomass all characters. 5. Log into account management and unsubscribe each account, being sure to inform CCP in the exit survey how much they ruined your gameplay by not abandoning an established game and alienating their existing player base, because you said so. 6. Never log into Eve Online again. Seriously, we won't miss you. Ah here! I called it first!
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Iain Cariaba
1280
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 18:36:29 -
[31] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:(insert butthurt whine post here) OP, follow these easy instructions to never be bothered with tedious, antiquated zone changes ever again. 1. Log into the game with each character you have. 2. Contract all posessions of those characters to me. 3. Transfer all wallet balances to me. 4. Biomass all characters. 5. Log into account management and unsubscribe each account, being sure to inform CCP in the exit survey how much they ruined your gameplay by not abandoning an established game and alienating their existing player base, because you said so. 6. Never log into Eve Online again. Seriously, we won't miss you. Ah here! I called it first! My bad. Post fixed.
You can have the stuff, I'll take the isk.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
327
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 20:13:14 -
[32] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression
Games are at their best when they are fresh. You know, when people don't have 50 trillion isk, 4 titans, 13 super carriers and stockpiles of 6000 subcaps in 8 different regions.
I'd love an Eve II, but it sounds a bit unrealistic.
My Eve II may be star citizen... |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12666
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 20:22:53 -
[33] - Quote
Yeah, the company has that has, three times now, put the progression and development of their sole profitable video game on hold to pursue attempted side projects that involve creating their own engine from scratch, and catastrophically failed all 3 times(resulting in large losses and hefty layoffs), should totally put the progression and development of their sole profitable video game on hold to pursue an attempted side project that involves creating their own engine from scratch.
This is even dumber than WiS.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 21:16:28 -
[34] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: This is even dumber than WiS.
Yep so Asherons Call 2, Everquest 2, Final Fantasy II - XV, Guild Wars 2, The Legend of Mir 2, Ragnorok 2,.... etc were all really dumb ideas. They should have stayed with the originals. Likewise we should all still be using Windows 6.1 and riding horses to work because progress is dumb.
As for the other posts:
Don't be confused by what you experience in-game to what is actually happening in game.
An idea such as the one I presented does not reduce interaction, its hugely increases it.
Currently there are only a few areas of interaction in EvE. The primary area of interaction is at stargates after jumping. Interaction time is approximately 1 - 30 seconds during align and acceleration. In a 10 minute journey the majority of time is spent immune to interdiction. So in a 10 jump journey you'll be able to be interacted with by another player between 10 and 300 seconds.
In a new EvE which blurs the lines between what you experience and what happens the primary interaction period would change from 10 - 30 seconds at a gate to total warp time through all systems. So if you have 10 systems and each system takes 1 to 30 seconds to warp through you're looking at 10 to 300 seconds of vulnerability. So nothing really changes except you have a more streamlined procedure for travel.
Regarding warp drive speeds the lore is irrelevant. You would still need a gate to jump to initiate interstellar travel and you would still need to arrive at a gate at your destination. You would still need to travel from system a(activation gate) -> b(way point gate) -> c(way point gate) -> d(destination gate) you simply would not need to stop at b and c unless there was a interdiction device on that gate.
Again since an interceptor or dictor / hictor could probe you out during intersystem travel (way point b and way point c) you would be vulnerable the entire time you were in warp rather than being immune most of the time.
Anyone who thinks its not possible to create a system to do this doesn't understand programming. Programming is like writing a story, you're only limited by your imagination and technical skills.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 21:22:25 -
[35] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression Games are at their best when they are fresh. You know, when people don't have 50 trillion isk, 4 titans, 13 super carriers and stockpiles of 6000 subcaps in 8 different regions. I'd love an Eve II, but it sounds a bit unrealistic. My Eve II may be star citizen... I don't know. CCP creating an EvE I and being successful was pretty unrealistic too but it happened. We just need an Ovuer II to get it rolling.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12669
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 21:37:50 -
[36] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Yep so Asherons Call 2, Everquest 2, Final Fantasy II - XV, Guild Wars 2, The Legend of Mir 2, Ragnorok 2,.... etc were all really dumb ideas. They should have stayed with the originals. Likewise we should all still be using Windows 6.1 and riding horses to work because progress is dumb.
Well, of those, I have played Guild Wars 2, and it was a really dumb idea.
Besides that, you're just making up a strawman and suggesting that I am against any change/progress, and attacking that idea.
Which is about par for your typical dishonest arguments. You entirely ignored anything I actually said, and just went off on your usual tangential ranting.
Quote: Anyone who thinks its not possible to create a system to do this doesn't understand programming. Programming is like writing a story, you're only limited by your imagination and technical skills.
And, as I mentioned before, you'd totally know this, what with your fake legal degree and side job as a bar bouncer giving you so much experience with the video game development process.
Oh, wait. No, you wouldn't. In fact judging from your post history, you think computer code is magic.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Iain Cariaba
1281
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 21:56:35 -
[37] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Anyone who thinks its not possible to create a system to do this doesn't understand programming. Programming is like writing a story, you're only limited by your imagination and technical skills. Then by all means, go forth and demonstrate your vast expertise with programming and bring us this game you envision.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
455
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 21:59:04 -
[38] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Yeah, the company has that has, three times now, put the progression and development of their sole profitable video game on hold to pursue attempted side projects that involve creating their own engine from scratch, and catastrophically failed all 3 times(resulting in large losses and hefty layoffs), should totally put the progression and development of their sole profitable video game on hold to pursue an attempted side project that involves creating their own engine from scratch. This is even dumber than WiS.
I see what you did there.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
455
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 22:00:43 -
[39] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Oh, wait. No, you wouldn't. In fact judging from your post history, you think computer code is magic.
It is, and I'm god damned wizard, baby.
Infinity Ziona wrote: Anyone who thinks its not possible to create a system to do this doesn't understand programming. Programming is like writing a story, you're only limited by your imagination and technical skills.
Actually you are far more constrained by your client base's willingness to purchase updated harware and the technology of your day than you are by either of the two things you mentioned.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2058
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 22:16:34 -
[40] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Yeah, the company has that has, three times now, put the progression and development of their sole profitable video game on hold to pursue attempted side projects that involve creating their own engine from scratch, and catastrophically failed all 3 times(resulting in large losses and hefty layoffs), should totally put the progression and development of their sole profitable video game on hold to pursue an attempted side project that involves creating their own engine from scratch. This is even dumber than WiS. You are a bit out of date. CCP have announced Dust has broken even on all development costs and is now turning a profit, Fanfest if you want to find the announcement. Somewhere in one of the Dust presentations. And the third project hasn't even launched yet and you are calling it failed. 1 Fail, 1 Success, 1 still in Development..... Slightly different story. |
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
131
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 22:37:08 -
[41] - Quote
OP should be banned from the forums.
EVE-Online is the type of game that you keep updating... you don't close it and start something else... |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 22:50:16 -
[42] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Anyone who thinks its not possible to create a system to do this doesn't understand programming. Programming is like writing a story, you're only limited by your imagination and technical skills. Then by all means, go forth and demonstrate your vast expertise with programming and bring us this game you envision. I have my own successful business and the days of 1 person mmo's are far over. It takes 100's of man years to develop a AAA mmo.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
327
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 22:58:57 -
[43] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Phaade wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression Games are at their best when they are fresh. You know, when people don't have 50 trillion isk, 4 titans, 13 super carriers and stockpiles of 6000 subcaps in 8 different regions. I'd love an Eve II, but it sounds a bit unrealistic. My Eve II may be star citizen... I don't know. CCP creating an EvE I and being successful was pretty unrealistic too but it happened. We just need an Ovuer II to get it rolling.
Like you mentioned in a previous post, they have taken on 3 other projects and failed miserably, which is why I think it is unrealistic. Not that it can't be done, but the sure bet is they screw up.
They should understand the industry at this point. Their ancient code (relatively speaking) will only carry them another couple years. Maybe five. After that this game will be mostly dead. I love Eve, don't get me wrong, but the 1 second server tick system and a 15-18 year old platform simply cannot compete with what is out and what will come out in this time frame.
What they SHOULD do is design a new game, most likely a sequel to Eve like you suggest, it can be farther in the future or whatever, while continuing to apply minor update / balance changes to the current game.
I find it hilarious that their entire team is dedicated to Eve, yet the changes they make with each update are laughable. Oh, 5% less falloff for bouncers, no more lighting cynos right next to force fields.....dumb **** that should be doable by a small group of people dedicated to Eve.
Anyway, Godspeed, but it probably won't happen... |
Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 23:09:27 -
[44] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now.
I'm drawing a blank.....what country has a legal driving age of 11?
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12671
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 23:51:22 -
[45] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: And the third project hasn't even launched yet and you are calling it failed. 1 Fail, 1 Success, 1 still in Development..... Slightly different story.
I'm not talking about Valkyrie. I'm talking about WiS, WoD, and Dust.
Dust was, by any metric you choose to use, a complete failure. Most of their dev staff was laid off, and it only took them this side of two YEARS to turn a profit? You cannot call that a success, especially not when it's confined to a now retired console.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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ACESsiggy
Anti.Social.Corp
39
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 01:43:50 -
[46] - Quote
EVE 2.
Nice ring to it.
GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
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Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction The Good Christian Society
183
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 03:04:20 -
[47] - Quote
A long time ago in an MMORPG far away, SOE released Everquest 2, the sequel to the original Everquest which was getting quite long in the tooth at that point. Everquest was the big game at the time and SOE was sure they would all migrate to the new EQ2 and all would be right in the world. Instead what happened is that SOE gave all those EQ players a choice - go to EQ2, or go somewhere else. And as it turns out they mostly went to play World of Warcraft.
Ever since then, MMO devs have (generally) been loathe to crank out sequels since the act of releasing a sequel destroys the loyalty of their entire playerbase to the existing game and there's no guarantee they'll go play the new game.
KB Link
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
366
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 05:31:54 -
[48] - Quote
Kessiaan takes the best poast in the thread.
Some people still play Ultima Online. And it is horrible, utterly horrible what had been done to SWG in give birth to the abomination that is SWTOR.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 11:35:43 -
[49] - Quote
Kessiaan wrote:A long time ago in an MMORPG far away, SOE released Everquest 2, the sequel to the original Everquest which was getting quite long in the tooth at that point. Everquest was the big game at the time and SOE was sure they would all migrate to the new EQ2 and all would be right in the world. Instead what happened is that SOE gave all those EQ players a choice - go to EQ2, or go somewhere else. And as it turns out they mostly went to play World of Warcraft, which was new at the time and got a ginormous boost from all those Everquest players migrating over.
Ever since then, MMO devs have (generally) been loathe to crank out sequels since the act of releasing a sequel destroys the loyalty of their entire playerbase to the existing game and there's no guarantee they'll go play the new game. Player loyalty makes or breaks these games - there's a reason all the biggest MMOs are older than dirt despite numerous high-profile and very expensive launches the last 5 years or so. Actually that's not entirely true. Everquest II was successful and made enough money for Sony to release 14 expansions. Not EVE expansions but actual expansions.
WOW released and took a lot of the profits from EQ and other fantasy based games but in terms of EvE clones there are no analogous competitors so it would be extremely unlikely that that would occur on a large scale as it did with the development and release of EQ2 and WoW.
I'll also go out on a limb here and predict that the people most likely to cross over to an EVE II would be the power players rather than bears looking to escape the strangle hold those power players hold in the current EvE. Nothing more tempting to Goon types than a fresh new arena to conquer and fight for.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12679
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 11:48:12 -
[50] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I'll also go out on a limb here and predict that the people most likely to cross over to an EVE II would be the power players rather than bears looking to escape the strangle hold those power players hold in the current EvE. Nothing more tempting to Goon types than a fresh new arena to conquer and fight for.
And I'm gonna go ahead and go out on a limb here and say that suggesting a company split it's playerbase up between two different games that each require a military grade supercomputer to run a server for... is a bad idea.
Even if the rest of your nonsense could be done, which it can't under the game's current engine (you're basically asking for a halfassed version of Elite Dangerous, by the way), the simple fact remains that CCP does not have a spare supercomputer laying around.
To make a sequel for the special snowflakes who want one, they'd have to shut down the existing server, or put literal years worth of development money just into the hardware alone. (all that, before even starting to make the game)
There is so much no to all of this. Like I said before, this is an even worse idea than WiS, on a whole bunch of levels. And that's saying something, since WiS is development poison.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
102
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 13:02:41 -
[51] - Quote
Listen, I have to chime in on this...
Idk what OP wants... but when I think of "EVE 2", I am by NO MEANS asking for a separate game that starts from scratch.
I would like to see an "EVE 2"... as in a brand new physics/game engine for EVE, but the servers and players still have the same items, stats, saved progress, etc.
A brand new game (technically), but it's still EVE, it's still Tranquility, and I'm still Leto Aramaus with billions of ISK and millions of SP... but ships are real destructible objects, stations are to scale, solar systems are fully rendered 3D environments that actually exist outside of your grid... you get the idea, ya know? A game engine that isn't 12 years old... that's what I'm sayin'.
The UI update we deserve
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
611
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 13:07:01 -
[52] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. I'm drawing a blank.....what country has a legal driving age of 11?
Now his kid could be driving illegally. Now what happens if/when the kid hits someone/something is the fun part. Cops will love the write up as they whip out codes they don't use much. So will the party's who was hit lawyers. We know insurance is out of the question....its straight to civil court there.
Rest of this....ccp is not deviating from any industry trend here. Only companies who truly embrace new tech are start ups (as they have no old product to work from). The old dogs....rehash old code for years. Maybe some improvements in X+1 over X, a lot of that core X lives on. For many X+1's even. Hell we can argue the old dogs to look new and fresh buy out the start ups. Then do whatever they can to slap the new stuff into the old code. Symantec says hi here, I don't think they even write new code anymore, they just buy out people and assimilate their work. |
vikari
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
120
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 13:58:55 -
[53] - Quote
Systems/Zones breaks up load, which reduced the impact of 1000,2000,3000+ people battles that sometimes do happen, and when they do, last several hours. I'm sure all of Eve wants to pay that price right?
Your gate warping idea would do the following: 1. Reduce interaction with other players for PVP content. 2. All for mass stacking of people into one area, producing these massive lag events that no economically priced server cluster could handle. 3. Would destroy the concept of "roaming" 4. Would destroy faction warfare 5. Would destroy player ran freighter services 6. Would increase the negative effects of Titans/Supers/capital fleets on the game. 7. Stop put an end to transport missions in highsec. 8. Increase the need for large coalitions to exist. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
459
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 14:19:01 -
[54] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote:Listen, I have to chime in on this...
Idk what OP wants... but when I think of "EVE 2", I am by NO MEANS asking for a separate game that starts from scratch.
I would like to see an "EVE 2"... as in a brand new physics/game engine for EVE, but the servers and players still have the same items, stats, saved progress, etc.
A brand new game (technically), but it's still EVE, it's still Tranquility, and I'm still Leto Aramaus with billions of ISK and millions of SP... but ships are real destructible objects, stations are to scale, solar systems are fully rendered 3D environments that actually exist outside of your grid... you get the idea, ya know? A game engine that isn't 12 years old... that's what I'm sayin'.
Are you willing to put all major development changes to Eve on hold for the next couple of years while they do this? Because that's the price, and it's non-negotiable.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
102
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 14:39:40 -
[55] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote:Listen, I have to chime in on this...
Idk what OP wants... but when I think of "EVE 2", I am by NO MEANS asking for a separate game that starts from scratch.
I would like to see an "EVE 2"... as in a brand new physics/game engine for EVE, but the servers and players still have the same items, stats, saved progress, etc.
A brand new game (technically), but it's still EVE, it's still Tranquility, and I'm still Leto Aramaus with billions of ISK and millions of SP... but ships are real destructible objects, stations are to scale, solar systems are fully rendered 3D environments that actually exist outside of your grid... you get the idea, ya know? A game engine that isn't 12 years old... that's what I'm sayin'. Are you willing to put all major development changes to Eve on hold for the next couple of years while they do this? Because that's the price, and it's non-negotiable.
Yes. Absolutely.
Are you not willing?
If CCP said today... "Okay guys look, we can build EVE 2.0 which is going to be Star Citizen but better and with EVE ships... but if we do, for the next two years, we won't be releasing any more stupid gimmicks, T3-game-breaking-ships, or dumb sh*t like PI or hacking minigames... we can only give you patches, fixes, and minor balance changes... until the new engine is complete."
You wouldn't want that?
Yea, I guess not... I mean all the AWESOME content we've been getting over the past 10 years has been so good! Like... all the UI re-designs (over and over and over), and T3s! Wow T3s are so good to have in the game, glad we got those instead of a new engine. Oh and Faction Warfare, PI, ****-poor redesigns of Bounty and Criminal systems, Wormholes, some new Wormholes, a new special named Wormhole, some new NPCs, some other new NPCs, some new ships, some graphics updates, oh and don't forget the UI redesign, again...
The UI update we deserve
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs incendia equus
98
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 14:47:32 -
[56] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Removing gates would remove terrain based borders. It'd remove chockpoints and blockades. You're looking for this. This is an excellent point to make.
I bought Elite: Dangerous and I have enjoyed playing it.
That said, I have not played it in over 2 months. It turns out that building a massive-scale persistent universe and then specifically designing it to prevent any sense of ownership or empowerment of players because you want them all to spread out and have minimal contact with each other doesn't exactly work.
I hope the PowerPlay update coming soon will address some of this, but right now unless you thoroughly enjoy moving cargo from one station to another for hours a day for the joy of watching your bank account increase, there's not really much to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s
An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero.
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Khorvek
Dead Pool Syndicate
5
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 15:30:12 -
[57] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression
No reason they couldn't port all relevant game information to a new, more stable game.
Other than that, the stopping of game development might be problematic, who knows though. Do we really need to keep spamming out more superior ships to improve the game? People come and go as they satisfy themselves and their goals in eve and I think thats just how it is. At a certain point, barring fixing bugs or adjusting balance in very tiny increments, a game can be said to good and complete as is. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs incendia equus
98
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 15:58:40 -
[58] - Quote
Khorvek wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression No reason they couldn't port all relevant game information to a new, more stable game. Other than that, the stopping of game development might be problematic, who knows though. Do we really need to keep spamming out more superior ships to improve the game? People come and go as they satisfy themselves and their goals in eve and I think thats just how it is. At a certain point, barring fixing bugs or adjusting balance in very tiny increments, a game can be said to good and complete as is. A big part of this is the fact that people are looking at the declining Peak Concurrent User count and crying doom and gloom when that has always been a metric that goes up and down twice a year in reaction to each expansion.
Without big-ticket expansions to center around, the curve looks to be flattening further, but the primary cause is that we haven't had a really big game changer in a while.
When the summer Sovereignty changes are released, you'll see that number jump back up because people who went to play other games so as not to burn out on EVE will come back to enjoy the new content.
As old as this game is and as much buggy legacy code as it is sitting on, it's still fun and it's still growing. I think CCP has shown they are more than capable of iterating on past code now that their focus is on it, and I see no reason to throw everything out and start over.
Besides, then we'd have to be arguing with all the people who would insist they change the game to full manual piloting to "make it more exciting".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s
An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero.
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1607
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 16:11:40 -
[59] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:
Now his kid could be driving illegally.
Sure, but a 2 year old could drive illeagally. In order for the statement to mean anything, there would have to be a viable context for assuming the child's age, i.e. legal driving age. It seems fairly important as it was the predication for the entire argument of "Eve is old". As the lowest legal driving age I'm aware for any country on the planet is 14, then either I am unaware of a lower age somewhere, there is another vehicle related context that would make a driving 11 year old meaningful, or the OP's argument crumbles under the weight of it's own reference point.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
335
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 17:01:26 -
[60] - Quote
Look, i am not sure if this has been brought up... Because i dont want this cesspool of a thread in my brain...
But do you really think some asswhipe wouldnt be spamming "character create" in the first second after the signups for this "eve2.0" went live to claim names like "the mittani" "chribba" "elise randolph" etc? Even if they were to reset the servers on a sov level or release some kind of "tranquility 2.0" with the current game i dont think it'd change anything.
Goons would still goon, PL would still be the best at everything, RNK would still be pipebombing eveyrthing that moves as soon as titans become a thing...
Eve is THE PEOPLE alot more then it is the MECHANICS. And you can take FIreFrenzy from me when you pry her virtual ass from my COLD DEAD HANDS.
At moments like this i wish this forum had the proposed "down vote" mechanic of "declare war" or "place bounty"... |
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Alia Ravenswing
DARK HAT
35
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 19:18:35 -
[61] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm).
There is nothing smart about re-inventing the wheel. It's popular after about 12 years or so, and it is by far the most dynamic and extensive game on the market.
Bug fixes are all thats required.
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Iain Cariaba
1290
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 19:30:43 -
[62] - Quote
The thread title says it all.
Enough already, it's time to close this thread.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12684
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 20:20:50 -
[63] - Quote
Wait, what kind of chav lets a 12 year old drive a car?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
369
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 20:24:38 -
[64] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:The thread title says it all.
Enough already, it's time to close this thread.
Yes. I thought OP might be reasonable at first, but it turned into "because I wanna!".
Reduntant thread is reduntant.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1608
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 22:26:38 -
[65] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Wait, what kind of chav lets a 12 year old drive a car?
Less than 12. It was specifically said that Eve is older than the child.
Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers!
Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
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Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
29
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 22:58:48 -
[66] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Gate travel. Gate travel is basically legacy MMO zone switching. The majority of MMO's have adapted to use fully open worlds / universes with minimal zone switching. Zone switching is bad. Seemless travel is great. How many of these MMO's have a single cluster for everyone to play on at the same time? Ah, right... almost none.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Instead of jumping from one gate - loading screen - to another you simply hit the gate you warp and seamlessly enter the next system. You want it to work faster than it already does? This is a single cluster MMO we are talking about. I'm already impressed with how fast gate jumping takes compared to just a few years ago.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Additionally instead of jumping from system a, to b, to c, to d you jump from a to d, traveling in warp through b and c without having to rewarp. If it takes now 10 minutes to move your ship through a, b, c to d then you are in warp for the same amount of time or less able to interact (scan, local list, chat) as you transition and given such travel would require predictable shipping lanes such shipping lanes could be seeded with warp disruptors that could bring a ship out of warp dynamically as needed by players rather than by gates every time even when systems are not being interdicted. This would single handedly stagnate low/null sec.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Oh and imagine if interceptors and interdictors actually intercepted and interdicted - were able to probe a ship warping through a system and dynamically intercept that ship as it transitioned through the system. Not possible in EvE 1, anythine is possible in an EvE II. *waves at Rubicon release*
Infinity Ziona wrote:Imagine a more efficient system handling server ticks and the reduction in lag that could be accomplished with updated server technologies and lessons learned from EvE I. 'Imagine' is all you're going to do for several years to come seeing as the hardware needed to accomplish these goals doesn't exist. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 23:21:07 -
[67] - Quote
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Gate travel. Gate travel is basically legacy MMO zone switching. The majority of MMO's have adapted to use fully open worlds / universes with minimal zone switching. Zone switching is bad. Seemless travel is great. How many of these MMO's have a single cluster for everyone to play on at the same time? Ah, right... almost none.
The Elder Scrolls Online. But there's always something to do as you travel.
Space is empty.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Sigras
Conglomo
1025
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 08:43:50 -
[68] - Quote
I have yet to hear a cohesive argument as to why this is a good idea...
Gate travel is not the horrible thing you make it out to be... It's pretty much the only reason large empires can hold space at all.
Think about UO. It had a system of "reds" and "blues" much like sec status in Eve, but it had a completely open world where you could just head off in a direction. There were criminal empires in that game and complete open world PvP, but the empires of null sec never materialized in that game because there was no way to restrict movement like the gate system Eve has.
Also gate travel provides huge amounts of strategic gameplay because supply lines are a thing... If everyone was just warping to their destination completely invulnerable until they got where they're going, why would we ever need jump freighters?
Sure it would benefit me greatly if all the ISK in game vanished and I was suddenly on equal footing with everyone, but think about the consequences... do you think most people in game right now would put up with ratting in an ibis for hours so that you can afford your first frigate BPO only to realize that they need to mine the minerals for it themselves then train the skill to build it themselves? Most of the player base would evaporate over night. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1099
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 09:13:45 -
[69] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Wait, what kind of chav lets a 12 year old drive a car?
Visit a Council estate in the UK for the answer to that question :D |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1099
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 09:16:37 -
[70] - Quote
Alia Ravenswing wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm). There is nothing smart about re-inventing the wheel. It's popular after about 12 years or so, and it is by far the most dynamic and extensive game on the market. Bug fixes are all thats required.
Changes to the underlying core of the game are most likely ongoing on an incremental basis anyway. Defining something as Eve II is pointless as the code evolves rather than being completely replaced in one fell swoop. Such a Big Bang style release would take huge resources and would be inherently fraught with risk. In other words it would be an insane undertaking!! |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:55:45 -
[71] - Quote
The arguments against that have been put forward are pretty much nonsensical and show a lack of understanding of software development, sequels and core EvE mechanics:
1. Warping from gate a through gate b through gate c to destination gate d is a bad idea because it'd reduce the amount of fights, interaction, whatever.
Ships already warp from gate a to gate b to gate c to gate d anyway. The main difference between this old clunky system and a new system such as the one I proposed is efficiency.
Given that I stated interdiction if required could be set up at intermediate points (gates) and also via interceptor / interdiction type in warp probing the system I propose actually increases interaction. Not only does it increase it but it eliminates one of the most useful anti-pvp tactics in current EvE and that is using a scout alt to check each gate.
Obviously you could still do that by choosing to jump system to system rather than setting an endpoint many systems away however given people are lazy many will opt for quicker method and get caught by gate camps strategically placed or be caught in warp by a quick probing interdiction ship.
2. EvE can be upgraded as we go.
Well its been 10+ years and there is a whole bunch of technical aspects and decisions that haunt the game to its detriment that cannot be easily changed.
3. It would create lag.
Utilization of existing technologies and lessons learned from EVE aside much of the lag is caused by EVE not implementing or planning for existing lag causing effects.
Take grids for example. A grid is a see everything or see nothing system. If a ship warps in on grid at 1km its visible to all ships, whether they're 1km, 100km or 1000 km away. This means the server has to provide information on that ship to every other ship on grid as well as providing information of every other ship on grid to that one ship. This occurs despite that ship being unable to target or otherwise interact with any other ship because its out of range. This occurs for all ships every 1 second meaning much of the server processing is irrelevant to the player since that information being given to the server is not important Information for the player. Players need to strategize on necessary information, data thrown enmasse by the server at players simply because of grid is extremely bad.
A superior system would be to have grids around each ship with ships entering each other grids dynamically being transferred into single grids. The difference is current mechanics is like trying to cram 100 people into an elevator for one single trip vs the elevator making necessary trips as required.
Disclaimer: my ideas are not proposals for implementation, they are simply examples of how improvements might or could be made to a new EvE online rather than vainly trying to fix a fatally broken system like EVE.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
85
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:02:24 -
[72] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm).
so crowdfunding usually comes from projects that start from nothing that have no cash. CCP have millions in subscription and we should expect this as part of us paying for it anyway!
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WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
85
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:03:30 -
[73] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Yes, lets ruin everyones progression, halt all updates on EVE for two years, destroy all the empires and reputations everyone has built up, and see how many people are around for Eve Online II. I mean, if it was a great idea we would have had World of Warcraft II years ago surely.....
Progression based MMO's don't make sequels if they are still alive, because people hate loosing all that progression
Personally i think we should have a second and third new instance of eve. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
178
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:04:16 -
[74] - Quote
Say hello to the deepest of deep safes.
Warp a freighter between systems. Get a friend to interdict you. Bookmark the location.
On an aside note, illustrate me an example where I undock from Jita 4-4, and dock in the station in Iyen-Oursta. I'm having a hard time picturing how the mechanics work when it comes to precisely where I am while navigating. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:05:44 -
[75] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is old, its older than my kid and he's driving around in a car now. Its rustly, crusty, its besieged by bad ideas, outdated code, fixes, patches, updates and fixes to fixes, patches for patches and updates for updates ad nauseum.
CCP had the player base and the development credibility to pull of a nice crowd funder and I personally would be happy to donate the first 10,000 to kick it off.
Its time for an EvE online II, to learn from past mistakes and reboot this game so its not only survives the next half decade but can properly compete with the next generation of space sims coming out soon(tm). so crowdfunding usually comes from projects that start from nothing that have no cash. CCP have millions in subscription and we should expect this as part of us paying for it anyway! Crowd funding is simply asking people interested in a product to provide some of the funds so that product can be delivered. If enough people want a product then crowd funding can be used to turn the "there will never be project X" into "there will be project x".
Crowd funding is not exclusive to start ups.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:10:48 -
[76] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Say hello to the deepest of deep safes.
Warp a freighter between systems. Get a friend to interdict you. Bookmark the location.
On an aside note, illustrate me an example where I undock from Jita 4-4, and dock in the station in Iyen-Oursta. I'm having a hard time picturing how the mechanics work when it comes to precisely where I am while navigating. Interdiction can only occur in system.
Ship goes to a gate, clicks the gate, selects destination system from gate menu. Gate warps ship from system A to system D. Since the ship needs to first travel through system b and system c before arriving in system d the server puts ship into interstellar warp (loading system b) to system b. Apon arriving in system b the server drops ship from interstellar warp into normal warp. Ship warps through system as usual after interdiction check comes up clear. As ship moves out of system b server puts ship back into interstellar warp (loading next system)... until interdicted or arriving at gate in system d.
At each gate between destinations the gate auto warps the ship back into interstellar flight without requiring the ship to come out of warp (cannot be dropped out of).
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
377
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:24:03 -
[77] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote: On an aside note, illustrate me an example where I undock from Jita 4-4, and dock in the station in Iyen-Oursta. I'm having a hard time picturing how the mechanics work when it comes to precisely where I am while navigating.
All in-system current local warp mechanics would apply, with only difference being the increase in warp speed passing the interstellar boundary barrier in Jita-Perimeter, and Perimeter-Iyen-Oursta.
So if you warp directly from 4-4 to a station in that Gallente system, you'd experience normal warp throughout Jita, followed by accelerated warp to Perimeter, then normal warp through that, and another interstellar crossing to Iyen-Oursta.
Space speed limits with Spacepolice.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12687
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:36:54 -
[78] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The arguments against that have been put forward are pretty much nonsensical and show a lack of understanding of software development, sequels and core EvE mechanics:
No, you're thinking of the arguments for.
Quote:2. EvE can be upgraded as we go.
Well its been 10+ years and there is a whole bunch of technical aspects and decisions that haunt the game to its detriment that cannot be easily changed.
But yet, to suggest that this very same company would have trouble coding a new game from scratch(which they have been proven to have trouble with) is a "lack of understanding of software development".
You are quite simply the biggest hypocrite I have ever encountered.
[edit: Oh, and I still want to know what kind of chav lets a pre teen drive a freaking car.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
178
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:44:48 -
[79] - Quote
Elaborate on the interdiction checks, please.
And tell me what happens with my capacitor when I re-enter normal warp.
Currently, this sounds like an anti-bumping auto-pilot mode. Your proposal is a stealth ganking nerf. To be blunt, this doesn't sound fun at all. It'd very likely be trivial for CCP to implement in the current engine.
Based on your current description, are space immediately around gates are going to be dead silent along trade routes. The only gates that will have any indication of human beings playing a game together is going to be found in trade and mission hubs.
Honestly, re-work your idea because you're taking more player interaction out than you're adding with interdiction. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
970
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:39:15 -
[80] - Quote
Over here in civilized country #24 police wouldn't agree with 10yo drivers.
Unless you mean laps around the barn, which isn't really driving. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9397
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Posted - 2015.04.20 16:16:44 -
[81] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The arguments against that have been put forward are pretty much nonsensical and show a lack of understanding of software development, sequels and core EvE mechanics:
fighting fire with fire
Lords.Of.Midnight now recruiting
Steamy hot small gang action is waiting for you.
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Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
509
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Posted - 2015.04.20 17:25:48 -
[82] - Quote
well I have to say the main reason not to have a second release of the game is simply that it doesn't follow the levelling and progression system that most games out there do. As many people pointed out, people not only have big stakes in the game, but they continue to progress their characters and change everything about their experience in the game.
Guild wars 2 was mentioned as an example. While Arena Net made an absolutely fantastic game that was released properly, is very well made and a proper successor to the original guild wars, it is still a levelled game and it caps at 80. Eve is a non-levelled experience system that has virtually *nothing* to do with the original fantasy D&D progression type system that a lot of these games possess.
I'm sure that a number of folks reading this thread have characters over a decade old. I'm also sure that most of them don't see themselves as having had reached some level cap (especially with the removal of clone grades), and even players a year old with good training and good ship builds can take out a lot of these folks solo on a good day. That by itself is one of the most amazing things about this game, and the biggest advantage it has over any of its competitors. That there is true, intrinsic value to you even if you're a 'newer' player, and the only grind there is in the game is to make money.
As for the beef you have about travel times, a very simple solution would be to fix autopilot to land at 0 of the gate. You'd still suffer if you got pinned down in lowsec or by a wt in hisec (god help you if you think autopiloting in null is a good idea). Automating that task in a realistic way would solve any consternation you hold with it. |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1551
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Posted - 2015.04.20 18:08:53 -
[83] - Quote
I'm not entirely sure what the excitement is about warping around systems even faster. It must be a nullsec-is-so-empty thing.
If I had a magic wand, I'd go the other way. If it took several tries, varying by ship type and fit, to get across a single system, and perhaps if it required some sort of refueling, then suddenly there would be much more use for player-built structures and various in-game locations: everything from public, advertised destinations to variously well-hidden outposts, to gas fields and planets for loners. It would increase interaction; it would make highsec wars actually interesting; it would make space variegated and directly and significantly impacted by the players. It would make corporations much more potentially interesting. It would give campers and interdictors some terrain other than than "gate" and "station."
I'm not saying CCPlease. I'm reasonably sure that this ship sailed a very long time ago. Having argued for this, it's only fair to counter that it assumes a player density that New Eden only sporadically enjoys, and I wouldn't enjoy the exhausting 20 jumps across nothing in some nullsec backwater either. But you have to admit, it would be cool.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
461
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Posted - 2015.04.20 18:41:37 -
[84] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Edit: Also... bullsh*t. "All major development changes" need to stop so they can design a whole new game from scratch eh?
Well they've already been building whole new games with OUR subscription money. Dust, Legion, Valkyrie... what are these? Massive projects that obviously take millions of dollars and thousands of hours away from EVE development, and yet we, the paying loyal customers, get nothing. Dust was for PS console peasants only, and the other two games exist in Youtube videos and our dreams.
You do realize those other titiles have different development staff - right? Right?
Also, boohoo, CCP used the money you paid them to try and make more money, while diverisfying their income streams so they aren't beholden to entitled numpties like you.
Holy ****, it's like they're a business or something. Whoda thunk it?
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
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Posted - 2015.04.20 19:38:03 -
[85] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I'm not entirely sure what the excitement is about warping around systems even faster. It must be a nullsec-is-so-empty thing.
If I had a magic wand, I'd go the other way. If it took several tries, varying by ship type and fit, to get across a single system, and perhaps if it required some sort of refueling, then suddenly there would be much more use for player-built structures and various in-game locations: everything from public, advertised destinations to variously well-hidden outposts, to gas fields and planets for loners. It would increase interaction; it would make highsec wars actually interesting; it would make space variegated and directly and significantly impacted by the players. It would make corporations much more potentially interesting. It would give campers and interdictors some terrain other than than "gate" and "station."
I'm not saying CCPlease. I'm reasonably sure that this ship sailed a very long time ago. Having argued for this, it's only fair to counter that it assumes a player density that New Eden only sporadically enjoys, and I wouldn't enjoy the exhausting 20 jumps across nothing in some nullsec backwater either. But you have to admit, it would be cool. Like I said it wouldn't be faster. It would take the same amount of time roughly.
The main difference is you'd go from a system where the majority of the time you're incapable of being interdicted to being capable of being interdicted almost 100% of the time.
But the example given was simply an example of how the game could benefit from a completely new engine and code-base. Now its probably possible for CCP do to something like that in EvE but the difference is the underlying engine would be optimized and designed for such systems, it would not be patched and plugged into an apparently tightly coupled code-base (spaghetti code) nor a code base which originally handled only a few thousand people on the cluster and in which fights were more in the 10's rather than the 100s to 1000's.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 19:50:08 -
[86] - Quote
Also would like to again address grid systems in EvE.
AFAIK based on previous developer posts the grid system can't really be changed without a major rewrite. Its really a nightmare and not at all like any game we have today.
The all of nothing aspect of grids is what kills fleet fights.
My system that I would propose to be implemented in an EvE II if I was a designer would be based on heuristic algorithm. The server (note the name server) would serve data to clients based on its interpretation of what would benefit the client its sending to while removing data that it interprets as unimportant.
That would be supplemented by command ships that could highlight and broadcast important information via links to its fleet. So a commander in a command fleet could highlight a ship, ships, or an entire fleet and make that ship, ships or fleet visible to his fleet so that those ships could interacted with without needing to load the entire grid of ships all at once into every client on the grid every 1 second.
I don't think that such serving of important information in bits is possible in the current EvE. The server simply stuffs you with information on loading grid which is why you're invariably lagged to hell when a fleet jumps in or you jump into a fleet fight.
Of course the main thing that I'm pointing out here is not the ideas but the concept of an system created based on learning from EvE I, from scratch to alleviate the problems of EvE I.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
106
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 19:56:32 -
[87] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote:
Edit: Also... bullsh*t. "All major development changes" need to stop so they can design a whole new game from scratch eh?
Well they've already been building whole new games with OUR subscription money. Dust, Legion, Valkyrie... what are these? Massive projects that obviously take millions of dollars and thousands of hours away from EVE development, and yet we, the paying loyal customers, get nothing. Dust was for PS console peasants only, and the other two games exist in Youtube videos and our dreams.
You do realize those other titiles have different development staff - right? Right? Also, boohoo, CCP used the money you paid them to try and make more money, while diverisfying their income streams so they aren't beholden to entitled numpties like you. Holy ****, it's like they're a business or something. Whoda thunk it?
So you also wouldn't want a new, amazing, better-than-Star-Citizen spaceflight game engine for EVE?
Just wondering, since you're mocking/insulting me, I assume you think my wish for a new, better EVE engine is a dumb idea. Is that correct? You want EVE to stay "Spheres in Space" forever, yes?
The UI update we deserve
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12689
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Posted - 2015.04.20 21:33:28 -
[88] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote: So you also wouldn't want a new, amazing, better-than-Star-Citizen spaceflight game engine for EVE?
I absolutely would not. I love the fact that EVE runs on just about anything.
Quote: Just wondering, since you're mocking/insulting me, I assume you think my wish for a new, better EVE engine is a dumb idea. Is that correct?
I'll say so outright. Yes, it's a dumb idea to suddenly massively increase the system specifications of your game, and it drives away customers.
Quote: You want EVE to stay "Spheres in Space" forever, yes?
I don't want EVE to have their own Star Wars Galaxies moment, how about that? And it very much looks to me as though that's what you people are asking for. Since I like this game, I don't want you to kill it.
[edit: And I'm still waiting on that question. What kind of chav lets a pre teen drive a freaking car?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
385
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 21:43:15 -
[89] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I don't want EVE to have their own Star Wars Galaxies moment, how about that? And it very much looks to me as though that's what you people are asking for. Since I like this game, I don't want you to kill it.
Dis.
NGE.
Or a super-cool New Age New Noattention Span Gaem for the New Age - SWTOR. The only reason it didn't flop completely, after they sacrificed SWG to make it possible, was due to the setting being... Star Wars!
What is Eve without its history, it's alliances, the corporations, the people? It can't be carried over to a new version/new server for it is not a theme park.
As a side note, the population PCU average on the Chinese Eve server Serenity is around 8k people - http://eve-offline.net/?server=serenity
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1100
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 22:34:00 -
[90] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote: So you also wouldn't want a new, amazing, better-than-Star-Citizen spaceflight game engine for EVE?
I absolutely would not. I love the fact that EVE runs on just about anything. Quote: Just wondering, since you're mocking/insulting me, I assume you think my wish for a new, better EVE engine is a dumb idea. Is that correct?
I'll say so outright. Yes, it's a dumb idea to suddenly massively increase the system specifications of your game, and it drives away customers. Quote: You want EVE to stay "Spheres in Space" forever, yes?
I don't want EVE to have their own Star Wars Galaxies moment, how about that? And it very much looks to me as though that's what you people are asking for. Since I like this game, I don't want you to kill it. [edit: And I'm still waiting on that question. What kind of chav lets a pre teen drive a freaking car?
I wouldn't even describe it as driving customers away, it would simply cut off those without the required kit stone dead. That'd be a great way to persuade players to keep playing!
A real life example of how major companies worth billions do things: I've worked with Oracle database for 18 years from version 8i to 12c. Take a wild stab at how many of the major version changes involved a complete rewrite from scratch...
There's a reason why companies don't throw away there entire code base and start from scratch and the previous link describes it very very well. |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2063
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 23:36:14 -
[91] - Quote
Spheres in space can be changed without EVE II happening. It's not a required hard code part of EVE, everything is changeable to some extent. Much as some code changes are harder. For example refer to their DX 11 tessellation demo, when EVE goes DX 11 as a minimum requirement, they may be able to include a physics engine overhaul taking advantage of the DX 11 ability to deal with model collisions in a much better manner, and they may also at some stage include a current facing in the information the server handles and passes to the clients.
Right now however, going to DX 11 would lose CCP over 50% of their player base according to their last hardware poll of users. So they aren't being stupid. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7896
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 23:37:02 -
[92] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I wouldn't even describe it as driving customers away, it would simply cut off those without the required kit stone dead. That'd be a great way to persuade players to keep playing!
A real life example of how major companies worth billions do things: I've worked with Oracle database for 18 years from version 8i to 12c. Take a wild stab at how many of the major version changes involved a complete rewrite from scratch...
There's a reason why companies don't throw away there entire code base and start from scratch and the previous link describes it very very well. ^^ This.
I've worked some contracts with a few major companies. Most of them are still using Windows XP.
I once asked the lead IT manager at one of these companies why they do not upgrade. He said (almost verbatim),
Quote:In the long run it is more effort to upgrade all the workstations to a higher version... because we'd have to upgrade the computers... and then upgrade the databases... and then upgrade the severs... and then upgrade the network... and there is no guarantee that any of it will communicate properly....
And then we'll get constant complaints from the userbase about how to use this, and how to use that... some managers will actually insist you change everything back... we also have to train OUR department how to use all the new stuff... and the higher ups will get pissed off at us because they don't like us spending money.
It's better to patch up what needs patching and keep going until it can't be used anymore. And when it can't be used anymore, THEN we'll replace it with something new.
Piecemail replacement is cheaper, more efficient, and bothers the least amount of people.
I swear to god... the guy put a lot of emphasis on that last part. Apparently he has seen things.
How did you start?
The SP System
IFW
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 01:50:33 -
[93] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I wouldn't even describe it as driving customers away, it would simply cut off those without the required kit stone dead. That'd be a great way to persuade players to keep playing!
A real life example of how major companies worth billions do things: I've worked with Oracle database for 18 years from version 8i to 12c. Take a wild stab at how many of the major version changes involved a complete rewrite from scratch...
There's a reason why companies don't throw away there entire code base and start from scratch and the previous link describes it very very well. ^^ This. I've worked some contracts with a few major companies. Most of them are still using Windows XP. I once asked the lead IT manager at one of these companies why they do not upgrade. He said (almost verbatim), Quote:In the long run it is more effort to upgrade all the workstations to a higher version... because we'd have to upgrade the computers... and then upgrade the databases... and then upgrade the severs... and then upgrade the network... and there is no guarantee that any of it will communicate properly....
And then we'll get constant complaints from the userbase about how to use this, and how to use that... some managers will actually insist you change everything back... we also have to train OUR department how to use all the new stuff... and the higher ups will get pissed off at us because they don't like us spending money.
It's better to patch up what needs patching and keep going until it can't be used anymore. And when it can't be used anymore, THEN we'll replace it with something new.
Piecemail replacement is cheaper, more efficient, and bothers the least amount of people. I swear to god... the guy put a lot of emphasis on that last part. Apparently he has seen things. Except we're not talking about a office suite or program used for commercial application. Thats an entirely seperate problem.
Gamers typically stay up to date with their gaming systems with even the laziest lagging by only a few years. Now businesses will run their systems for as long as possible only upgrading when it's absolutely necessary. I know of some major organizations still running 1970s software.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 02:34:09 -
[94] - Quote
My rig is 7 years old, I multibox 3+ characters.
Start a kickstarter for your idea, I'd rather have CCP continuing to support cheapskates like me, because there's a lot more poor people, and they tend to stick with things. You can get your game started by the idle rich dreamers, just look at star citizen.
I'll stick with what CCP gives me for 15$/mo:
An old, decadent, pissed in sandbox game that still attracts and retains new players.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, its just a game
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12693
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 02:37:17 -
[95] - Quote
Zimmer Jones wrote: Start a kickstarter for your idea
He can't, he'd get sued. And not the bullshit kind of sued either, where you just bluster on forums for a week about suing the company because you got a GM warning.
The real kind, where you have to put on a tie.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2064
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 02:37:33 -
[96] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Except we're not talking about a office suite or program used for commercial application. Thats an entirely seperate problem.
Gamers typically stay up to date with their gaming systems with even the laziest lagging by only a few years. Now businesses will run their systems for as long as possible only upgrading when it's absolutely necessary. I know of some major organizations still running 1970s software.
CCP's data does not support your claims. If you are talking FPS twitch gamers then 'maybe'. Most gamers however do not upgrade every two years. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 02:39:06 -
[97] - Quote
How does interdiction work? |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 03:13:20 -
[98] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:How does interdiction work? Given its an entirely new game it could work however they wanted it to. Something like how warping can sometimes result in you being very close to another vessel in EvE during warp perhaps.
Say interceptor deploys a module or deployable that detects a warping ship inbound. The module estimates the required warp time to position the intie into a parallel warp. Interceptor targets ship, activates aoe scrambler dropping both ships out of warp. Intie then regular scrams ship and gang warps to intie.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12693
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 03:17:56 -
[99] - Quote
Now explain your eager embrace of child endangerment.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 03:28:11 -
[100] - Quote
Would interdiction count as aggression?
Will there be a replacement system put in for people to scan cargo given that nobody will drop out of warp near mid-point gates? |
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
611
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 04:24:28 -
[101] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Except we're not talking about a office suite or program used for commercial application. Thats an entirely seperate problem.
Gamers typically stay up to date with their gaming systems with even the laziest lagging by only a few years. Now businesses will run their systems for as long as possible only upgrading when it's absolutely necessary. I know of some major organizations still running 1970s software.
CCP's data does not support your claims. If you are talking FPS twitch gamers then 'maybe'. Most gamers however do not upgrade every two years.
Especially mmo's. they know a decent chunk of business can be laptop users. Road warriors and the like. Or in my case I once ran a laptop and a tower. Tower died, I said well I am the laptop away from desk most of the time anyway. And made laptop use permanent (edit: just added an external monitor for desk use is all when there). Laptops don't do leaps and bounds hardware wise by and large.
Home "tower" use ccp knows they have a fair bit of family type players. They don't chase that bleeding edge dragon as much. One if both of the adults in the house is going "didn't we just pay for that?". |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 09:22:03 -
[102] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Except we're not talking about a office suite or program used for commercial application. Thats an entirely seperate problem.
Gamers typically stay up to date with their gaming systems with even the laziest lagging by only a few years. Now businesses will run their systems for as long as possible only upgrading when it's absolutely necessary. I know of some major organizations still running 1970s software.
CCP's data does not support your claims. If you are talking FPS twitch gamers then 'maybe'. Most gamers however do not upgrade every two years. Especially mmo's. they know a decent chunk of business can be laptop users. Road warriors and the like. Or in my case I once ran a laptop and a tower. Tower died, I said well I am the laptop away from desk most of the time anyway. And made laptop use permanent (edit: just added an external monitor for desk use is all when there). Laptops don't do leaps and bounds hardware wise by and large. Home "tower" use ccp knows they have a fair bit of family type players. They don't chase that bleeding edge dragon as much. One if both of the adults in the house is going "didn't we just pay for that?". A GTX 750 sells for around 100 dollars, you can grab one for $50 second hand. If you're incapable of affording something as basic as a mid level PC with an average graphics card and insist on running your old Pentium II then you have bigger problems than worrying about getting yourself into an new EvE.
Like most game mmo's sequels the older game usually continues to run for years after the sequel anyway.
This sounds like simple whinging because you're too poor or tight to upgrade your stupidly slow computers.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Mag's
the united
19323
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 09:57:09 -
[103] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:This sounds like simple whinging because you're too poor or tight to upgrade your stupidly slow computers. And this is a strawman, because you're losing the argument.
Now please leave already.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 10:13:20 -
[104] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:This sounds like simple whinging because you're too poor or tight to upgrade your stupidly slow computers. And this is a strawman, because you're losing the argument. Now please leave already. Hardly straw man. The idea that a games developer should hold off developing a new version of its flagship game because some of its current subscribers run turds for PCs is ludicrous.
There are literally millions of former EvE players that would likely resub just to try out a new EvE, hundreds of millions of potential new customers with decent rigs who may and a few hundred thousand current subs with only a % with crap pcs.
I know who I'd be developing for. Hint - not you poor unemployed people :)
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 11:17:39 -
[105] - Quote
That wasn't an answer to my question. Either of them. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 11:23:00 -
[106] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:That wasn't an answer to my question. Either of them. Those specifics would really be up to the developers. But lets say you had an interdiction on a ship and you're flying next to it, I guess given you can drop it out of warp you could probably scan it too, so you scan it, drop it from warp, get suicided, your gang warps in and ganks it...
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
106
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 12:14:29 -
[107] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote: So you also wouldn't want a new, amazing, better-than-Star-Citizen spaceflight game engine for EVE?
I absolutely would not. I love the fact that EVE runs on just about anything. Quote: Just wondering, since you're mocking/insulting me, I assume you think my wish for a new, better EVE engine is a dumb idea. Is that correct?
I'll say so outright. Yes, it's a dumb idea to suddenly massively increase the system specifications of your game, and it drives away customers. Quote: You want EVE to stay "Spheres in Space" forever, yes?
I don't want EVE to have their own Star Wars Galaxies moment, how about that? And it very much looks to me as though that's what you people are asking for. Since I like this game, I don't want you to kill it. [edit: And I'm still waiting on that question. What kind of chav lets a pre teen drive a freaking car?
This is so sad.
So many players feel this way, as made apparent by this thread.
It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.
The UI update we deserve
|
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 12:48:46 -
[108] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Rawketsled wrote:That wasn't an answer to my question. Either of them. Those specifics would really be up to the developers. But lets say you had an interdiction on a ship and you're flying next to it, I guess given you can drop it out of warp you could probably scan it too, so you scan it, drop it from warp, get suicided, your gang warps in and ganks it...
That pre-supposes that I have to interdict someone in order to scan them.
If interdicting doesn't flag a Concord response, then every man and his alt will interdict freighters without consequence. They won't worry about scanning or ganking. They'll do it because it's a legitimate form of gameplay. It's sanctioned griefing.
Now, if it does flag a response, then you've eliminated the cargo scanning profession from the game.
But I had an extra thought on your warping proposal. If a mid-point entrance gate will warp you to an exit gate, there's no reason why the end-gate can't warp you to a station. In-system warps are in-system warps. This means when I undock my freighter from Jita 4-4, set my autopilot to the Roden station in Iyen Ourstam, and enter warp, I will remain in warp until I land 15km off the station.
Let me write it out in detail:
- Be in Jita 4-4
- Set autopilot to the Roden station in Iyen-Oursta
- Undock
- Enable autopilot.
- In-system warp to 15km from the Perimeter gate.
- Slowboat to the gate
- Intersystem-warp to Perimeter
- Transition to in-system warp to the Iyen-Oursta gate
- Transition to inter-system warp to Iyen-Oursta
- Transition to in-system warp to 15km from Roden station
- Slowboat to station
When will my war targets see me enter system? How will they know which gate I entered from? How will they know where I've gone? I'm in warp the entire time. If they want to catch me, they have to camp every path between every gate in a system. I could enter from any gate and warp to any other gate. In Perimeter, a system with 5 gates, that's 10 paths. That is a hugely increased logistical burden on people declaring war. Currently, you only need to watch four gates. You're talking about 250% of the current requirement.
Convince me why your warping mechanic isn't bad. I still have hope for interdiction, but that's because Elite: Dangerous is arcade fun and this is a clear carbon-copy from it. Even the name is the same. Remember, Interdiction works in E:D because you can still run from the police if you gank someone. Do that in Eve, and you'll get yourself a ban. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1100
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 13:38:17 -
[109] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Zimmer Jones wrote: Start a kickstarter for your idea
He can't, he'd get sued. And not the bullshit kind of sued either, where you just bluster on forums for a week about suing the company because you got a GM warning. The real kind, where you have to put on a tie.
That's me out then, I don't even own a tie... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1102
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:12:17 -
[110] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote: So you also wouldn't want a new, amazing, better-than-Star-Citizen spaceflight game engine for EVE?
I absolutely would not. I love the fact that EVE runs on just about anything. Quote: Just wondering, since you're mocking/insulting me, I assume you think my wish for a new, better EVE engine is a dumb idea. Is that correct?
I'll say so outright. Yes, it's a dumb idea to suddenly massively increase the system specifications of your game, and it drives away customers. Quote: You want EVE to stay "Spheres in Space" forever, yes?
I don't want EVE to have their own Star Wars Galaxies moment, how about that? And it very much looks to me as though that's what you people are asking for. Since I like this game, I don't want you to kill it. [edit: And I'm still waiting on that question. What kind of chav lets a pre teen drive a freaking car? This is so sad. So many players feel this way, as made apparent by this thread. It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.
Actually speaking for myself and I suspect most here we want the game to evolve and improve on an incremental basis. You Know? Like all real businesses do unless they have a death wish?
Wanting things to change is fine but it will be gradual as no sane company throws away everything they have to switch to a new untried product which is exactly what the proposed Eve II would be. If CCP numbered their releases in the same way any major software manufacturer does we would be at EvE V or VI most likely. |
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
611
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:55:38 -
[111] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mag's wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:This sounds like simple whinging because you're too poor or tight to upgrade your stupidly slow computers. And this is a strawman, because you're losing the argument. Now please leave already. Hardly straw man. The idea that a games developer should hold off developing a new version of its flagship game because some of its current subscribers run turds for PCs is ludicrous. There are literally millions of former EvE players that would likely resub just to try out a new EvE, hundreds of millions of potential new customers with decent rigs who may and a few hundred thousand current subs with only a % with crap pcs. I know who I'd be developing for. Hint - not you poor unemployed people :)
This is industry standard chief. Even AAA does it. They have minimals that go back quite a few years. You see...till little 14 year old Johnny or Sarah gets a job to buy their dream machine AAA knows they will be kicking it on the rents PC in the house that probably is a few years old. And the rents may not be down for upgrades. EA and other AAA knows this and they don't cut off this market. Start em young...sort of like the tobacco industry lol.
Johnny and Sarah are good money around the X-mas timeframe market release flood. If a good boy or girl santa may leave them an EA present under the tree. If the old man (can be the mother as well) likes it too....some DLC sales later on too. Example my son picked up dragon age inquisition to give rpg a go (not his usual genre). I got my time on it too and picked up the dlc's.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12729
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 16:38:03 -
[112] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote: It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.
Cry more about how there's an MMO out there that's actually accessible for older hardware. If you want a flight sim, go play a goddamned flight sim. Stop asking to have what I like taken away from me because you can't figure out that you're playing the wrong game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1552
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 16:53:03 -
[113] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:This is industry standard chief. Even AAA does it. They have minimals that go back quite a few years. You see...till little 14 year old Johnny or Sarah gets a job to buy their dream machine AAA knows they will be kicking it on the rents PC in the house that probably is a few years old. And the rents may not be down for upgrades. EA and other AAA knows this and they don't cut off this market. Start em young...sort of like the tobacco industry lol.
Not to mention, there's no cost on the other side. If you're one of the people who've dropped several thousand dollars on a dedicated rig, you get to experience the game on a huge screen with all the sliders at maximum. So the gamers at the top end lose nothing, and the people at the lower end get to play, which means that everyone gets a better multiplayer game.
Of course, there is the elephant in the room: WoW has always had a superb and highly machine-tolerant client. It's one of the reasons why the game is such a juggernaut.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
611
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 17:08:50 -
[114] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote: It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.
Cry more about how there's an MMO out there that's actually accessible for older hardware. If you want a flight sim, go play a goddamned flight sim. Stop asking to have what I like taken away from me because you can't figure out that you're playing the wrong game.
I'd recommend Kerbel Space program. Want simulation its got simulation.
Well that and worth noting no real simulator I have played had truly impressive earth shattering graphics. Emphasis usually on the flight sim mechanics really. The meat and potatoes for it I find.
Sims I have played in the past if you crank up the realism real high....you should be focused more on not flying the plane wrong and not pixel peeping to borrow the term from photography. Mix a few high risk moves, exceed tolerance of the plane in real life simulated in a game, see what fun things can go wrong. I know in mid air stalls I wasn't going you know...they really need to make the ground more realistic. I was thinking man this falcon (one of my all time fave sims) is doing a really good impersonation of a lawn dart and I need to change that fast. |
Mehrune Khan
Viziam Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 17:21:55 -
[115] - Quote
Lately I've been playing Elite Dangerous more than EVE. I like that it has no skill system or jump gates. If there ever is an EVE Online 2, I hope it leaves these two things behind.
Funny how in EVE I get called a carebear because I'm perpetually sitting in station training up skills and refusing to risk my implants. In E:D I get called a griefer because I'm constantly harassing other players trying to dock at stations, losing my ships in the process and having a blast doing it. EVE, a game that is mechanically structured around slow careful gameplay has a stronger PvP community than E:D, a game that is mechanically structured around low-risk PvP which has a community full of carebears that scream like girls when you shoot them. I don't get it.
I completely agree with the OP. CCP could take lessons learned from EVE 1 and make a better EVE 2 that could be much more fun to play. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
176
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 17:49:42 -
[116] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Lately I've been playing Elite Dangerous more than EVE. I like that it has no skill system or jump gates. If there ever is an EVE Online 2, I hope it leaves these two things behind.
Funny how in EVE I get called a carebear because I'm perpetually sitting in station training up skills and refusing to risk my implants. In E:D I get called a griefer because I'm constantly harassing other players trying to dock at stations, losing my ships in the process and having a blast doing it. EVE, a game that is mechanically structured around slow careful gameplay has a stronger PvP community than E:D, a game that is mechanically structured around low-risk PvP which has a community full of carebears that scream like girls when you shoot them. I don't get it.
I completely agree with the OP. CCP could take lessons learned from EVE 1 and make a better EVE 2 that could be much more fun to play.
Define "fun"..
Your fun is not my fun. That is the purpose of a sandbox. Everyone can play it however they want. ED looks cool, but underneath the flashy graphics, it seems to lack a lot of substance, at least at this moment.
EVE is a very psychological game. Thats why ive been playing for years. I love making a ship that people underestimate and kill them and their gang with. I enjoy outsmarting my opponents with the fit/skill... not just slapping the biggest guns and dogfighting. I still havent done most things, and am not anywhere close to 100m SP.
I run a decent PC and can run EVE at max settings no problem. It looks good enough for the gameplay i get out of it. I play eve for the strategy and gameplay, not because i want to see shiny things.
Stargates add strategy and choke points. With thousands of systems, if one is blocked by a camp, find a way around it, or bust through if youve got the right ship/fit for the job. Removing them loses a layer of gameplay and dumbs it down imo. |
Mehrune Khan
Viziam Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 20:58:27 -
[117] - Quote
Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.
I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else? |
Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1454
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 21:10:49 -
[118] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.
I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else?
You ship is completely capable is heading towards another start system on it's own power.
There's a slight issue with the fact that space is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY ENORMOUS. We are talking centuries to travel between systems in an hype-spacial velocity rigged interceptor.
In that same issue of space being ABSOLUTELY CRAZY ENORMOUS, artificial choke points are required in order to force points of interaction in a level of space so vast that by the time the light from the starting point of your journey reaches the end point, your great great grandchildren might be learning how to drive a spaceship.
Oh and there's those ever so tiny issues of gates acting as transitions between what is honestly individual instances for each system. Seamless movement can mean hidden loading periods of non interaction, but the load screen is there in function even if it is not there on your screen.
Plus chucking all of the eve lore out the window, not that I care too much about that.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 22:27:52 -
[119] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Rawketsled wrote:That wasn't an answer to my question. Either of them. Those specifics would really be up to the developers. But lets say you had an interdiction on a ship and you're flying next to it, I guess given you can drop it out of warp you could probably scan it too, so you scan it, drop it from warp, get suicided, your gang warps in and ganks it... That pre-supposes that I have to interdict someone in order to scan them. If interdicting doesn't flag a Concord response, then every man and his alt will interdict freighters without consequence. They won't worry about scanning or ganking. They'll do it because it's a legitimate form of gameplay. It's sanctioned griefing. Now, if it does flag a response, then you've eliminated the cargo scanning profession from the game. But I had an extra thought on your warping proposal. If a mid-point entrance gate will warp you to an exit gate, there's no reason why the end-gate can't warp you to a station. In-system warps are in-system warps. This means when I undock my freighter from Jita 4-4, set my autopilot to the Roden station in Iyen Ourstam, and enter warp, I will remain in warp until I land 15km off the station. Let me write it out in detail: - Be in Jita 4-4
- Set autopilot to the Roden station in Iyen-Oursta
- Undock
- Enable autopilot.
- In-system warp to 15km from the Perimeter gate.
- Slowboat to the gate
- Intersystem-warp to Perimeter
- Transition to in-system warp to the Iyen-Oursta gate
- Transition to inter-system warp to Iyen-Oursta
- Transition to in-system warp to 15km from Roden station
- Slowboat to station
When will my war targets see me enter system? How will they know which gate I entered from? How will they know where I've gone? I'm in warp the entire time. If they want to catch me, they have to camp every path between every gate in a system. I could enter from any gate and warp to any other gate. In Perimeter, a system with 5 gates, that's 10 paths. That is a hugely increased logistical burden on people declaring war. Currently, you only need to watch four gates. You're talking about 250% of the current requirement. Convince me why your warping mechanic isn't bad. I still have hope for interdiction, but that's because Elite: Dangerous is arcade fun and this is a clear carbon-copy from it. Even the name is the same. Remember, Interdiction works in E:D because you can still run from the police if you gank someone. Do that in Eve, and you'll get yourself a ban. You wouldn't warp to station you'd warp to the exit gate you selected just like you do in current EvE.
My idea, which was not a proposal for an actual EvE II but an example of how things could be redesigned; warps you to every gate you'd normally warp and jump to, so you'd manually warp to gate, select the system you want from the gate menu, that would interstellar warp you to the next gate in the next system, that gate would auto inter-system warp you to the exit gate without you coming out of warp to rewarp, which would interstellar warp you to the next system.
The reply you quoted states that interdicting an incoming ship and scrambling it back into normal space would elicit a concord response, hence the you'd have to suicide scramble it and you're gang would have to warp to you to gank the ship.
As for the other posts here whinging about a new game using updated graphics, like I said if you can't afford a second hand $50 graphics card then you shouldn't be playing EVE anyway. You need to get a job.
And while game developers do consider backwards compatibility in terms of hardware, software they don't eliminate the option of releasing new games based on that. There are sliders and there are graphics options to reduce performance requirements. However there are also considerations to be made in regards to potential markets and most games will live or die on their graphics when it comes to new customers. Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification. They will simply add options to revert for the unemployed people who want to play.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15622
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 22:39:17 -
[120] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay.
They provide choke points.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12742
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:02:53 -
[121] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification.
CCP has already learned their lesson about that with the Captains Quarters.
Why are you asking them to repeat a guaranteed failure?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:25:37 -
[122] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification. CCP has already learned their lesson about that with the Captains Quarters. Why are you asking them to repeat a guaranteed failure? Link
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:44:50 -
[123] - Quote
Why wouldn't I warp to station? In current Eve, I select the station and autopilot to it.
Your example also removes autopilot. Is that your intention?
And are you happy with removing the scanning mini-profession from the game, now that you can't cargo scan a ship except for when it undocks, or lands in its destination system?
I think it'd be best if you develop a new example for interdiction. This one makes travel far too safe. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12753
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 00:34:13 -
[124] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Graphics are a huge thing in gaming and no company is going to release 2003 quality graphics in 2015 as a maximum specification. CCP has already learned their lesson about that with the Captains Quarters. Why are you asking them to repeat a guaranteed failure? Link
That means absolutely nothing. CCP's proven track record of failing to innovate on their own, however, has a very real meaning.
And it's implications are the death of the game.
So I ask again, why do you want CCP to repeat a guaranteed failure?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs incendia equus
102
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 01:08:04 -
[125] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.
I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else? No, because the speeds the ships warp at would make getting between systems take an eternity.
I'm starting to be reminded why I used to avoid these Forums.
The Elite: Dangerous example doesn't illustrate anything other than a difference in how warping is handled. While you can reduce the amount of "zone switching" needed to traverse the game via upgrading your Frameshift Drive, you are still zone switching exactly the same way you do in EVE.
Also, I can say from experience that it is extremely simple to hang out at a Star in my Viper, wait for someone to jump into the system, and have them dropped out of supercruise within seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s
An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero.
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
329
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 01:30:21 -
[126] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mag's wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:This sounds like simple whinging because you're too poor or tight to upgrade your stupidly slow computers. And this is a strawman, because you're losing the argument. Now please leave already. Hardly straw man. The idea that a games developer should hold off developing a new version of its flagship game because some of its current subscribers run turds for PCs is ludicrous. There are literally millions of former EvE players that would likely resub just to try out a new EvE, hundreds of millions of potential new customers with decent rigs who may and a few hundred thousand current subs with only a % with crap pcs. I know who I'd be developing for. Hint - not you poor unemployed people :)
Do not attempt logic.
Logic does not work against the idiot. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
329
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 01:33:46 -
[127] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote: It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.
Cry more about how there's an MMO out there that's actually accessible for older hardware. If you want a flight sim, go play a goddamned flight sim. Stop asking to have what I like taken away from me because you can't figure out that you're playing the wrong game.
Dude, I'm sorry you play on 1998 hardware, but most of us don't.
Frankly, most of us are tired of you peasants holding us back.
Now **** off.
Seriously, **** off with your pathetically inept posts. |
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
130
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 02:08:29 -
[128] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Yep so Asherons Call 2, Everquest 2, Final Fantasy II - XV, Guild Wars 2, The Legend of Mir 2, Ragnorok 2,.... etc were all really dumb ideas. They should have stayed with the originals. Likewise we should all still be using Windows 6.1 and riding horses to work because progress is dumb.
Isn't World of Warcraft doing better than all of those games? |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 02:15:57 -
[129] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.
I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else? No, because the speeds the ships warp at would make getting between systems take an eternity. I'm starting to be reminded why I used to avoid these Forums. The Elite: Dangerous example doesn't illustrate anything other than a difference in how warping is handled. While you can reduce the amount of "zone switching" needed to traverse the game via upgrading your Frameshift Drive, you are still zone switching exactly the same way you do in EVE. Also, I can say from experience that it is extremely simple to hang out at a Star in my Viper, wait for someone to jump into the system, and have them dropped out of supercruise within seconds. The question was why choke points? The answer is pretty simple. The mechanics in EvE are terrible.
In most games zones are arenas. In most games players enter the arena and undertake an activity be it mining, npcing, missioning or trading. To leave the arena they need to travel back to the exit. During any of these activities they usually can be engaged in PvP.
In EvE you have similar areas for player activity however in EvE you're instantly alerted that an enemy has entered the arena. You can immediately warp (making you invulnerable) denying the other player the chance to PvP you.
Hence the popularity and realistically only reliable method of engaging a player in non-consensual PvP the gate camp.
If there was a requirement for players to be able to be interdicted in warp there would be no reason for chokes.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
180
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 02:21:45 -
[130] - Quote
There are these things called Mobile Warp Disruptors.
Amazingly, they allow you to interdict people that are in warp. |
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Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
130
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 02:26:49 -
[131] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. I don't know what game you're playing but it's not Eve.
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Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
130
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 02:31:26 -
[132] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.
I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else? No, because the speeds the ships warp at would make getting between systems take an eternity. I'm starting to be reminded why I used to avoid these Forums. The Elite: Dangerous example doesn't illustrate anything other than a difference in how warping is handled. While you can reduce the amount of "zone switching" needed to traverse the game via upgrading your Frameshift Drive, you are still zone switching exactly the same way you do in EVE. Also, I can say from experience that it is extremely simple to hang out at a Star in my Viper, wait for someone to jump into the system, and have them dropped out of supercruise within seconds. The question was why choke points? The answer is pretty simple. The mechanics in EvE are terrible. In most games zones are arenas. In most games players enter the arena and undertake an activity be it mining, npcing, missioning or trading. To leave the arena they need to travel back to the exit. During any of these activities they usually can be engaged in PvP. In EvE you have similar areas for player activity however in EvE you're instantly alerted that an enemy has entered the arena. You can immediately warp (making you invulnerable) denying the other player the chance to PvP you. Hence the popularity and realistically only reliable method of engaging a player in non-consensual PvP the gate camp. If there was a requirement for players to be able to be interdicted in warp there would be no reason for chokes. I guess a good analogy would be in an fps. Whenever you found an opponent they could speed hack to safety making killing them a frustrating game of cat and mouse. That's EvE. Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12760
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 03:01:47 -
[133] - Quote
Phaade wrote: Dude, I'm sorry you play on 1998 hardware, but most of us don't.
Frankly, most of us are tired of you peasants holding us back.
Now **** off.
Seriously, **** off with your pathetically inept posts.
So hostile, lol. If your hardware is chafing at the bit to go out for a run, why not go play something to put it through it's paces?
I mean, seriously, why agitate to turn this game into something that it's not? People like it the way it is, and if you don't, the problem doesn't lie with us.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1461
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 03:21:18 -
[134] - Quote
CCP's main incentive for keeping the minimum requirements is the financial benefit of people who multibox.
Right now I have one client open on Anhenka with all my chat channels, another client open with a highsec freighter alt moving a freighter back to Jita, another in autopilot to go pick some stuff up in highsec, and am actively burning a cyno alt to a location for my JF.
If you increased the requirements enough that it took a fairly new computer to run a client even on low settings, my laptop would explode if I tried to run 4 clients at once. And then I would unsub probably two of them. And there goes cash that otherwise would have flown into CCP's coffers.. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2303
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 05:11:59 -
[135] - Quote
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II. Don't be so sure about that. Remove local and watch the exodus begin.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1103
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 06:25:28 -
[136] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leto Aramaus wrote: It really, really saddens me. Since I first subbed to EVE, I've always been hoping it would evolve past "Spheres in Space", but you people literally want it to stay the same... so, SO sad.
Cry more about how there's an MMO out there that's actually accessible for older hardware. If you want a flight sim, go play a goddamned flight sim. Stop asking to have what I like taken away from me because you can't figure out that you're playing the wrong game. Dude, I'm sorry you play on 1998 hardware, but most of us don't. Frankly, most of us are tired of you peasants holding us back. Now **** off. Seriously, **** off with your pathetically inept posts.
This makes we chuckle, I play EvE on my work laptop that has spec that would make most gamers cry yet it isn't worth the twin crossfire graphics cards running at full tilt because I spend most of my time in the scan probe window hunting sites. Guess how much I care about the graphics being on par with the latest Call of Grand Theft Battlefied?
Which brings in another point. EvE isn't about first person quality graphics, it's just a nice to have as you are rarely zoomed in enough for it to matter. Gameplay changes can and do come through in the regular updates and that is how it should be. As previously mentioned just because CCP don't number releases doesn't mean that they don't introduce major gameplay changes. They just don't go through the insanity of big bang releases. No company with any realistically sized piece of software does unless they have absolutely no choice. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
611
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 06:48:12 -
[137] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II. Don't be so sure about that. Remove local and watch the exodus begin.
How so.
Local is by and large useless for empire. 50 people in local, you are 1 of them, rest are grey. So 49 players are ignored anyway. Or yellow (I tend to ignore them). Or flagged but again...I ignore that too. Empire I have always been low key. I got my fights out of empire I go on the dl in empire to get my isk and call it a day. Someone was a bad boy but not to me...not my problem. Killing that bad boy, then getting the attention of his 20 fiends after....is my problem lol.
Low sec is not the most jumping spot in the game as is now. And this would benefit carebears to change that I predict. I have a hard to probe tengu setup to be the ghost in the machine. That setup tbh is ruined by local. 6 man local, 5 are blue in pirate corp, I am not and nice and grey to them. They will after running the scrub prober come to the conclusion they need to up the probing game a bit.
Put another way...local announces me in low sec, if pirates want me bad enough knowing I am there....they will find me. I don't see every low grade scrub pirate crew having a virtued, sisters gear fit, max skilled prober on every roam launched that night if local removed. Their scrub can't find me in 2 passes they will hit next system. Or find easier targets if in my system.
0.0 with several adjustments is less concerned about the hot drop from out of nowhere. PL want to dynamite fish halfway across the map....well its gonna take a few days to do that lol. that final hot drop pegged the fatigue.. you have a captive cap audience. Wait them out and it may get some revenge kills.
That and if the bitters leave 0.0...it could be a very good thing. If say goons rage quits en masse if local meant that much to them we'd have a power vacuum. It actually make 0.0 interesting for a change as people fight to fill that void. And the game would be goon (as we know it) free. Win win really. |
Mag's
the united
19329
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 08:28:09 -
[138] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Do not attempt logic.
Logic does not work against the idiot. Calm down, this is a no logic thread. That's why you were invited.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
31
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 06:26:00 -
[139] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Hardly straw man. The idea that a games developer should hold off developing a new version of its flagship game because some of its current subscribers run turds for PCs is ludicrous.
There are literally millions of former EvE players that would likely resub just to try out a new EvE, hundreds of millions of potential new customers with decent rigs who may and a few hundred thousand current subs with only a % with crap pcs.
I know who I'd be developing for. Hint - not you poor unemployed people :) The simple fact you would even exaggerate "hundreds of millions" is undeniable proof you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not opening anyone's eyes into believing there are groves of players waiting to jump in EVE for a new "experience" they probably wouldn't be able to run. We don't need a "Crysis" version of EVE that only those with dedicated video cards could run. Praise the Lord you're not clever enough to get onto CSM and project your ridiculous ideas, otherwise EVE might "actually" be in trouble for a few weeks until you were kicked out.
Mehrune Khan wrote:Jump gates don't add depth to gameplay. Either you are sitting at a gate for hours waiting for someone to come through, bored out of your mind, or you're the unlucky guy that jumps through and gets blown up. If that's your thing then to each their own I guess, but dumbed down? I'm sorry but hunting down another player with a frameshift wake scanner in a galaxy with 400 billion stars takes more intelligence and skill than gate camping hands down. No contest.
I never saw the reason for adding artificial choke points in a game that's supposed to emulate FTL travel. All our ships have warp drives, but we can't fly out of a star system on our own power? Doesn't this seem absurd to anyone else? Well, if you used that noggin of yours to really think about it, then you would immediately conclude that the jump gates serve as a hardware limited solution. CCP can not remove them without drastically changing the mechanics in ways that isn't feasible. I don't know how many times this needs to be said. The technology to truly have a single cluster with no loading zones can not and will not happen anytime soon. Also, +1 to what Anhenka said in response to you. All obvious reasons when you take your raging blindfold off.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:Believe it or not, removing local does not require Eve Online II. Don't be so sure about that. Remove local and watch the exodus begin. They are already tinkering with the idea of delaying local in null sec. What a glorious day it will be when it happens. If you think it will cause an "exodus" in anyway, shape or form, you really don't understand the players of EVE at all. Makes me wonder why you even pretend to be one of them. (it should be f'n apparent by the lack of support you've received in this topic) |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5371
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 06:29:18 -
[140] - Quote
Quote:Forum rules23. Post constructively.Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting. 27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. As the thread has gotten very off topic, I'm closing it down.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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