How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.

How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.

When you talk about the Raven you mean the Raven Navy Issue, right?

How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months.

1) I would say go for the raven

2) and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class.

I don't think that is the right question in this case.

The ship information will tell you what you need to train to fly a Rattlesnake but the thing is, you are in for a huge disappointment if you don't a few years more of skills in your sheet.

When you try to do the same thing with three very different ships, you will be disappointed too.

The Raven (tech one) is a fast moving kiting ship.

The Navy Raven is and improved Raven.

The Navy Scorpion is an improved Rokh in a Scorpion hull.

And the Rattlesnake is the last and higest improvement of a Navy Raven with some extra treats and tradeoffs.

The Golem is a specialized tech2 boat, which is no improvement of anything.

The RattleS already does more damage when i have both BS skills on 3.
Lets say a launcher does 100 dps (for example):

Scorpion Navi Issue= 6 Launcher = 600dps
RS = 5 Launcher = 500dps + gallente bs skill = 650dps

Am i right with this?

Also the RS is much more afforable than the RNI or the SNI and has a better tank + i can tain drones over time so i get that dps too.

Did i oversee something or is the Rattlesnake the cheapest/best ship.

so much bleurgh in this post =S

Do you know how much of this is wrong?

so much bleurgh in this post =S

Do you know how much of this is wrong?

enlighten us

Well the rokh is a hybrid turret boat, and the navy scorp is a missile boat for one. And using the term "kite" on a BS is alil far fetched, no?

Can it be done? Yes. But it is not the intended role of the ship. Thats more mach/bharg territory.

According to the battleship rebalance thread the 'role' of the Raven was 'fast moving attack battleship', so it is just a quote.

Stich dear,
what I meant was the navy scorpion moves with the mobility of the Rokh and close to the same amount of tank.

According to the battleship rebalance thread the 'role' of the Raven was 'fast moving attack battleship', so it is just a quote.

If we were to follow the tiericide approach vision, the Navy Scorpion would have been a tankier Scorpion but instead she isn't a super-tanky ecm-boat.

The Golem is not a Raven improvement but a special case boat. I wanted to reflect that tech2 is not better than tech one but different.

Our pirate faction ships are the top improvements of two worlds and should always be seen at the top of the performance pyramid.

You have defecated so much wrong into this discussion that even if any of your statements were correct they are now wrong because of the stain of your horrendous posting.

Everything you have said in this thread, is hereby wrong. Very wrong.

And YOU have zero credibility and nobody believes anything you ever say. So stop talking altogether and keep it in your purse.

1 is good advice.
2 is bad advice.

I would say go for the raven and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class.

No it is sound advice.

Level 3 missions are far less dangerous than diving right into level 4 missions and will allow the OP to use the battleship with far fewer skills both in terms of SP and piloting.

I think the point they were trying to make is a Raven is a horrible choice for L3 missions and they are correct. However I see what you want the OP to accomplish so I understand your reasoning for the suggestion.

Slap RHML on it and its not too shabby. ( It earns more than an ishtar in lvl 3 blitzing) Its not a mach thats for sure.

Scorp has good tank but bad application, you will eventually need to sacrifice tank for target painters.

The Golem is not a Raven improvement but a special case boat. I wanted to reflect that tech2 is not better than tech one but different.

If he has the skills to properly use RHML then he has no business being in a raven. I get the point was to have him learn how to use a Golem one day... but RHML and cruise and RHML and torps are completely different beasts. With the current price of pirate BS and navy BS I see no reason not to have him start in an overtanked SNI or Rattle or RNI.

You all forget to mention a very important thing about the rattler

Gallente Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage

Caldari Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to Sentry Drone and Heavy Drone damage and hitpoint

the important part beeing the role bonus here.


This basicely means that the rattler, the worm and the gila all dont need the ship skills at any reasonably high level to work so they are super easy on the skill points, coupled with asburd tanking abilities and easy to fit stuff

[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender I
Large Shield Extender I
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I

Republic Fleet Bouncer x2

something like this (im no mission runner and this is probably not a fit you should take to actually do missions in, its an example) is easily useable in 2-3 month and even then you are looking at over 230k ehp vs kinetic (or refit vs the tank type you want with a 500dps tank and 750+ dps (or 900+ if you use a gecko).


And if you can actually fly it well it has absurd tank, absurd dps and its almost ungankable due to a really sick passive tank on top of that.

If you can use drones with a modicum of skill and have gallente BS trained, use a MJD sniping dominix. There is no better way to learn triggers/mission lay outs. I literally cannot envisage a way you could lose this ship.

Use it to pad your wallet whilst your skill plan matures and your skill/knowledge as a player evolves.

The only risk is that the thing is so goddamned easy mode you might lose your next ship!

so if he has the skills to use rhml he shouldnt be in a raven but should be in a rattlesnake which uses 2 different (long train) weapon systems? what use will a rattler be in a mission if his drone, cruise and core skills are subpar

Rattle is not a good ship for someone new to battleships, especially for level 3s.

They require more SP to use, more management and they are twice the cost of a raven. In level 3s you want to be moving to the next objective while you are shooting targets so rattles with sentries are right off the bat at a disadvantage in speed. If you use other drones then you have the flight time of the drones. On top of that you are managing two weapon systems at the same time.

Raven is much faster to train into and easier to use. Remember, OP is learning the basics of flying a battleship so tossing him into the most management intensive of all the battleships is not the best way to go about this.

Megathron. Enough said.

2102+ DPS [5K Volley], 529 m/s Velocity, AB+Web+Disruptor
25K EHP

[Megathron, Battleship]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L
Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L
Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L
Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L
Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L
Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L
Polarized Neutron Blaster Cannon, Void L

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Auxiliary Thrusters I
[empty rig slot]

'Augmented' Ogre x3
Large Standard Container


Implants
Slot 1: Low-Grade Snake Alpha
Slot 2: Low-Grade Snake Beta
Slot 3: Republic Special Ops Field Enhancer - Gamma
Slot 4: High-Grade Snake Delta
Slot 5: High-Grade Snake Epilson
Slot 6: Zainou 'Sharpshot' Torpedo TD-606
Slot 7: Eifyur and Co. 'Rouge' Evasive Maneuvering EM-706
Slot 8: Eifyur and Co. 'Rouge' Fuel Conservation EM-806
Slot 9: Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Gunnery RF-906
Slot 10: Zainou 'Deadeye' Large Hybrid Turret LH-1006

Did you read the stuff above? Of all bs the rattler is the easiest to train into, its harder to maximize but to reach 750+ dps easily you need to spend like a week of training as its main damage comes from its role bonus.

Why would you ever linked that fit above?? Is that classy lvl3 set up, lol

And where is the price check for this shiny pod with all those implants?

check it yourself, those implant only come out to maybe 30M ISK to 60M ISK check OSMIUM.ORG or something i know how much they are they not more than the Rattlesnake put together. STILL CHEAPER. If it makes you feel better and sleep good at night i will take them out and it's STILL CHEAPER AND BETTER.

Good troll is a good troll, enough said

Do you ever run lvl3 with Rattler, please be honest here.

Hater are going to hate. Truth hurts.

Only missions i ever do are lvl 5s. (but i almost never do those). But how does that matter?

how could i hate you if you are such a funny person lol

But yet you name called EVEN after the fact. Have not contributed constructive price/performance ratio to counter. Stick to the OP your going off on tangents. What was the goal? i gave simple analysis and corrected my post to please thee and yet you not take it into consideration. Either say something nice or do not say anything at all.

Megathron.

Did you read the stuff above? Of all bs the rattler is the easiest to train into, its harder to maximize but to reach 750+ dps easily you need to spend like a week of training as its main damage comes from its role bonus.

No matter how you try to argue this the rattle had two weapon systems you need to train and maintain. When you are learning a ship class you want the first steps to be as easy as you can make it and the rattle is not the best option for this. The raven only has the one weapon system it needs to worry about and is so easy to get into it has been to go to mission boat for the last decade.

I think the Rattlesnake is potentially more forgiving for newer players.

How?

Two weapon systems to train for so it takes twice as long to train.

Two lines of battleship are required to be trained.

You have two weapons to use so you have twice as much work in that area.

Drones require you to look after them and the rattle is not bonuses for light/med drones.

The raven is much easier to get into, cheaper, easier to use and fit. The rattle is something to aim for after you have been in the raven not before.

Because even at level 3 in each BS line, each weapon system type it will still out damage and with better application a Raven.

You can out damage a fully level V skilled Raven pilot in a Rattle piloted by a player with level 4 skills. It is just that simple. Again, Raven is not a good choice for level 3, you get all the draw backs of using a BS in a level 3 without the benefit of more dps. Rattle is also a ship that the OP can continue to skill and get better and better, where a Raven the pilot has to change weapon skills to get better and get a new hull.

What you are proposing is the OP get a Raven and skill for heavy missiles, then after "mastering" that he start skilling for cruise or torp, skill for Rattle (which means drones) or a Golem (very long skill train) and then sell his hull for upgrade.

What the rattle offers is to train for heavies and drones (which he already has) and use a ship that today gets him more DPS, more tank and better application of damage. Then tomorrow when he is level V his Rattle is only that much more amplified.

You are asking him to waste time and skills on something he wont fly tomorrow.

Remind me, what battleship skill is required for the raven and the rattle?

Also, tell us what weapon system both ships get bonuses to?

Zero time is wasted here, the skills you get for the raven are the very same skills you need for the rattle. Also remember, I put a lot of time into a level 3 raven on a new pilot so I know exactly what it can do. The rattle was also tested and it is slower simply because of the way drones work. DPS isn't everything here.

You want the OP to train heavy missiles and fly a Raven then switch to a Golem with Cruise.

I want the OP to max his skills to fly a Rattle while actually flying a Rattle all the while a better choice both now and in the future for him.

I don't see why you continue to argue this

I'm not re-quoting this fit. It makes my eyes bleed...

No one one told you too in the first place. The OP was asking. That fit is outdated been updated anyway its already been answered.
Your comment is mind boggling.

Its a poor fit.

Never said it was the best in the game but I did ask for a counter fit to help out.

How?

The lowslots have way way too many damage mods, past three they become pointless.

Blasters lack the range to be effective lvl 4 mission runners unless you have speed and TE/Computers which your ship doesn't. The weapon systems in question reduce your resists to zero and even with the best willpower a ship with zero resists and no rep is going to die even in level 3s. The lowslots have way way too many damage mods, past three they become pointless.

Never said it was the best in the game but I did ask for a counter fit to help out. I did ask people seem to over look it. If it helps the man than help. I am just a price performance suggestion but if you know something tell OP. His thread not mines

Blasters lack the range to be effective lvl 4 mission runners unless you have speed and TE/Computers which your ship doesn't. The weapon systems in question reduce your resists to zero and even with the best willpower a ship with zero resists and no rep is going to die even in level 3s. The lowslots have way way too many damage mods, past three they become pointless.

You've been asked about this fit and left my question without answer. Why would i counter fit anyfhing if your mega got nothing near to asked SNI/CNR or Rattler?

I respect that that is fair points. You learn something new everyday. Thanks for info will pass it along. Need more post like this. I did try put a few resists on but they never show correct not sure if bug or what. I figured too many damage mods before but I was not sure how much power OP needed but I could easy on them in a heart beat for repair, nano, or resist mod and go micro but I don't know if he will get scrambled or something.

I didn't say it was necessarily better - I just said it was more forgiving. You can have mediocre drone and missile skills and it will still out-DPS a Raven. It has a heavier tank, higher resistances (even Caldari Battleship-III plugs the EM hole with 15%) and a passive shield recharge.


The 4th typically yields 4.5-5% additional DPS, so I wouldn't exactly call it pointless.

Those guns reduce resists to 0 no matter what you fit. Damage mod wise anything over 3 suffers from diminishing returns to the point where they add very little. The last 4 damage mods on your ship add no damage at all, they are dead weight. Rats don't scramble.

No I did not and you said you have nothing more to add so.

The 4th typically yields 4.5-5% additional DPS, so I wouldn't exactly call it pointless.

I would generally say that's correct. There are a few L4 missions ("The Damsel", "Stop the Thief") where blasters will excel, but these would be the exception rather than the rule.

Reading your comments i'm really concerned that you are aware of how to run missions and what ship is good for that.

It varies. Things have changed and been nerf or balance what I think or know could be gone tomorrow. I do but that does not mean you have doubts. Its eve nothing is set in stone so I do not type as so
When I look back months later nothing In this thread will be what it was. Its foreshadowing.

Raven was a solid mission runner for years now. And only dramatic changes should make it useless. Let me ensure you that what we've discussed here would be still worth of reading and aknowledge.

excellent but on question asked by op you've linked some doubtfull fit with set of implants worth of billions and you think it's a good advise for a newbe ?
who are you mr.? i hear some mentoring tone in what you saying but i don't see much of good advises in your comments.

How?

Two weapon systems to train for so it takes twice as long to train.

Two lines of battleship are required to be trained.

You have two weapons to use so you have twice as much work in that area.

Drones require you to look after them and the rattle is not bonuses for light/med drones.

The raven is much easier to get into, cheaper, easier to use and fit. The rattle is something to aim for after you have been in the raven not before.

[A 2 month old character deals way more dps and tanks way more in the rattlesnake then in any other ship in game due to how well it scales with almost no skills making it the perfect ship for newer players.

Aside from the cost difference (the Rattlesnake being about 2.1x more), even with minimal drone skills it's going to fare quite well.

Raven - Caldari Battleship I ... 6.32 effective launchers
Rattlesnake - Gallente Battleship I ... 5.5 effective launchers plus drone DPS (Geckos are insanely easy to train into).

Dont forget the survivability, the resists on a RS are higher, and the EHP much much higher.
RS is just all around a better choice for the new and the old player. Raven is a horrible option for Level 3 or level 4.
And the cost is hardly debilitating. RS is 365mil now and the Raven 175mil.

Baltec1 has already handle majority of that on asked so no point in beating a dead horse. See his comments for more detail. Good advice depends on how you take it. I could give a speech but what the point if it ls on deaf ears? define good advice? what is good to some is bad to other and what is bad to others is good to some. Can't MAKE it good advice if it is not seen as such. I leave it to the person to comprehend what HE or SHE wants to take from it.

I am a eve player NOT a rocket scientist. What do you want from me? can i live. Enjoy the game forget who is a kobe fan or lebron fan.

Let me ask you once again, what is the point of Megathron's fit you've linked? Is that your interpretation of good advise on ship to run missions?

You shoudn't be a rocket scientist neither i am to give advises. But you have to have some level of expertiese which is based on your own experience. In the mean time there are a lot of well known set ups and obvious choices (talking about specific fits) which ones you couldn't ignore.

For example - i did try to run some lvl 4 in a Myrmidon. It wasn't smooth and easy but was some sort of fun.

If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.

If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.

If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.

Mach does not scale well to low skill players.

T1 arties and ACs and the lack of ability to properly use a MJD or MWD would be a death sentence in a ship that already has tank issues and relies on DPS for tank.

Rattle is not just a high damage pirate BS, it is a High Damage/High Survivability multipurpose Pirate BS. It honestly is OP, but that is ok. It just happens to be one of the most perfect ships to learn missions in