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El Taron Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:19:53 - [301] - Quote You claim to speak on behalf of the majority of players and the royal "we" (easy to do I might add), but they're actually left with very little choice, they might not love having to multibox links and falcon alts, but rather they feel they need them to be able to compete, which is understandable in the current climate. The rest of that post is just waffle. Players are active and contributing when it's in their interest, ie doing something they want to do or working towards something they want. No targets for your blood thirsty pvpers could well become a problem if you drive all their targets out of the game.
Kamala Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:31:45 - [302] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: You still haven't noticed how your personal attacks were all ignored? I promise you, you can totally have my attention without them, so maybe it's time to stop the kindergarten level insults? And your trying to weasel out of it by claiming that it wasn't what it was is so cute. Keep trying, I like it! Dude. For some people trolling this forum is their life. Seriously. It's a place for them to project all their personal insecurities. It's better just to ignore them.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3864	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:38:22 - [303] - Quote Anuri Suaraj wrote: I generally dislike EVE's SP system because it accounts only for the natural progression of time and whether or not a player has an active subscription going. Like any system, it has its pros and cons. Think of it as CCP giving you access to more toys over time. You can choose the order in which you want the toys, but not compress the time needed for each toy. Unless you pay more (alts). It makes sense from a business perspective. I personally find it acceptable also from a player perspective, at least regarding PVP. There are many things you can do even just with frigates, not to mention cruisers. Enough to keep you busy while the time passes by. I admit that I have been slightly annoyed, in the last few months, at the timesink for T2 cruisers and T2 medium weaponry. When your friends decide to fly HACs with T2 Logi it's not so much fun to tag along in the 5th interceptor... Maybe CCP could consider lowering from V to IV some of the skill level requirements for the most popular ships/weapons... Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Anuri Suaraj Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:58:31 - [304] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Anuri Suaraj wrote: I generally dislike EVE's SP system because it accounts only for the natural progression of time and whether or not a player has an active subscription going. Like any system, it has its pros and cons. Think of it as CCP giving you access to more toys over time. You can choose the order in which you want the toys, but not compress the time needed for each toy. Unless you pay more (alts). It makes sense from a business perspective. I personally find it acceptable also from a player perspective, at least regarding PVP. There are many things you can do even just with frigates, not to mention cruisers. Enough to keep you busy while the time passes by. I admit that I have been slightly annoyed, in the last few months, at the timesink for T2 cruisers and T2 medium weaponry. When your friends decide to fly HACs with T2 Logi it's not so much fun to tag along in the 5th interceptor... Maybe CCP could consider lowering from V to IV some of the skill level requirements for the most popular ships/weapons... I like the fact that your skills keep going passively no matter what, but I would like it even better if there was some sort of a bonus for people who actively play the game and practice the skills that they're currently training. And while I agree that the waiting time on certain skills is a bit too high, I think that on some skills it's a bit too low. For one, I think that Racial Frigates should be mandatory to train to level V. before allowing players to move on to dessies and cruisers. A lot of new players seem to make the mistake of going straight for the bigger ships "bicoz Battleships must pwn" before fully understanding things like sig radius, time to warp etc.. and then they just end up with some poorly fitted and expensive monstrosity that gets shredded sooner or later, be it by NPC-s or PvP-ers.
Otso Bakarti Aliastra Gallente Federation 159	Posted - 2015.05.04 19:27:18 - [305] - Quote The funniest part of this entire thread is, every damn person posting here demanding people be forced to "leave station" (whatever the 'f that actually means), insist that they in all things have their freedom to decide what they want without anyone forcing them to do anything. The double-standard is so palpable you could slice it with a chain saw. It's none of your damned business what someone else does with their account. If they want to log, then they'll log. If they log and spin their ships, then spin their ships they will. It takes a real creepy person to think he/she has a say in what someone else should do with a gaming account. The weight of the bandwidth absorbed by this thread of digital busy bodies should scare us all. I survived Win95
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 185	Posted - 2015.05.04 22:42:31 - [306] - Quote bonkerss wrote: was doing active pvp the last months. i can honestly say in every situation i died my sp didn't save me. lets put it this way: 95% of the time you die in eve you do so because you made a tactical error in engaging in the first place or you flew into a trap or you had lag or derped. as pointed out many times in this tread, most important factors of winning a fight ( a real fight not a eft simulation) is intel, ship comp, tactics and numbers. there is no amount of skill points that can save you from a loss. avoiding losses is all about knowing what you can engage and when you have to get the **** out. In other words, when you died, it were mostly to the third exception - self-destructing by the means of a "brain fart"-like poor decision. Obviously your SP didn't save you if you died, but what about all the times your SP did save you and you didn't die? Are you taking it for granted? It's my whole point that people who don't have that die most of the time due to not having that, and your taking that you'll win against lower SP ones for granted is actually supporting my claim once again. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 2838	Posted - 2015.05.04 22:52:43 - [307] - Quote I'd advise stop feeding the troll here. If you make a valid point he'll either ignore it, or claim it is one of the "wall jumping" exceptions which don't count or something. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Akirei Scytale Okami Syndicate 3506	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:06:34 - [308] - Quote God, this thread has gone way down the rabbit hole. Y'all are crazy to keep this going. Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong.
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 185	Posted - 2015.05.05 00:52:56 - [309] - Quote Akirei Scytale wrote: Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. Your proof of that being "cuz I said so", amirite? Teckos Pech wrote: I'd advise stop feeding the troll here. If you make a valid point he'll either ignore it, or claim it is one of the "wall jumping" exceptions which don't count or something. SP wall leaping mechanics are situations when even a dog or a bot is equally useful to a high SP character, not to mention the most ill-described low SP one. In those situation SP indeed does not matter, which is why they are called "SP wall leaping mechanics", and there's just 3 of them, surely even a goon can count that high. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Amy Undergood Life Associates 10	Posted - 2015.05.05 01:05:19 - [310] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. Your proof of that being "cuz I said so", amirite? Oh yes, absolutely. It's the same approach you use, but our right is correct. Every post you make further proves it because you are unable to provide any direct proof of what you claim. Thank you for your continued demonstration of how right I and those of us that think the same, are.
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 23504	Posted - 2015.05.05 01:06:11 - [311] - Quote Anuri Suaraj wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Anuri Suaraj wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Kamala wrote: Actually I quite like the skill system. It beats grinding. But it does create the inescapable fact that newer players can never catch up with older players. I don't know if this puts off new players, it didn't bother me much tbh. Except when they reach [racial] frigate V. Small blasters V. Small blaster spec V. etc. etc. I don't understand how people can be so completely disconnected from reality. Do you run around, complaining that children have it unfair compared to adults? It's how the world works. When you start doing something, you do not know how to do it well until you get better. I think you should read twice before retorting like that. Generally, every PC game ever, and every MMO ever, works on the principle that the more you play it, and the better you play it, the faster you acquire skills, items etc... Whereas EVE is the only game in which a person that has logged in once 5 years ago, created an account and subscribed for a year can have more skills than a player that's been playing the game actively for the last six months or so. The only way a newer player catches up is if the older player drops his subscription for a while. I'm not claiming that the system is bad right off the bat, but I am saying it is different and weird and therefore should remain open for discussion. Also, I don't get the children-adults analogy. What does the general process of human aging have to do with EVE? Are you sure? It rather seems that the more people play, the harder it gets to level up. Not the other way round. This is a mechanism that keeps people addicted. The first fixes come fast but continuously it gets harder and harder to feel satisfied. EVE is different because it does not use such mechanics to make people addicted. The skill system is different, as it progresses over time without the need for grinding. And new players do not need to catch up! besides this being wrong anyway, they have their own generation of people they are on par with! It's realistic! You get born into a world and have to deal with the fact that there are older people who know more and better. EVE mimics the real world, unlike all these other games. It's great as it is. The idea of being unable to catch up is bullshit. If this was true it would have been an issue already years ago. The unfairness is illusionary. EVE mimics the real world with this and it's right to do so. How about NO. EVE does not mimic the real world in any shape or form for several reasons. In the real world just because you are older it doesn't automatically mean that you are better than someone in something. While experience does count, things like talent, dedication and hard work count for more than a person's age. Also in the real world you don't advance yourself by sitting on your behind but by doing stuff. In EVE I get no bonus whatsoever on training of say the Gallente Destroyer skill even though I'm flying such a destroyer while I'm training the said skill. Basically EVE suggest that you can train something just by reading a book about it without ever actually doing or trying to do the said something. And also that the person who starts reading first will automatically be better at that thing than the person who started to read about it last. If only I had started to read about Football before Messi, or about Electrical engineering before Tesla, I could have been both the world's greatest footballer and the world's greatest inventor at the same time. EVE has nothing to do with real life so please stop deluding yourself. I generally dislike EVE's SP system because it accounts only for the natural progression of time and whether or not a player has an active subscription going. Bottom line is, if I'm flying around and shooting my railgun at people than I would expect my hybrid turret skill to level up faster than the guy's who's training the same thing by staying logged off, parked on his couch, and with his eyes glued to dr. Oz. With that said, the guy whining about SP being crucial is wrong. SP is only one variable in a pretty big equation. Although the same guy is right about you being sort of a drama queen. In no way or form. Except when it comes to natural laws, where the strong/adaptive kill the weak. Except when it comes to numbers, when people group up and crush smaller entities. Except when it comes to social engineering, to manipulate people into doing something. Except when it comes to social interaction and the butterfly effect, which shows that just like in the real world, everyone is connected with everyone else. Except for when new players enter the game, who start with nothing and have to grow, (via SP and experience) and learn how to survive (just because "civilisation" seems to remove this, it's still natural) and compete with the older generation. In no way or form... mhm. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 185	Posted - 2015.05.05 01:11:08 - [312] - Quote Amy Undergood wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. Your proof of that being "cuz I said so", amirite? Oh yes, absolutely. It's the same approach you use, but our right is correct. Every post you make further proves it because you are unable to provide any direct proof of what you claim. Thank you for your continued demonstration of how right I and those of us that think the same, are. There has been a load of direct proof provided and you weren't even brave enough to quote it, preferring to call it names. Well, those are internetz. All your carefully selected proof will be ignored. To be showered with proof and claim none was received, while being afraid to even quote the material 1/10. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Amy Undergood Life Associates 11	Posted - 2015.05.05 01:17:17 - [313] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: There has been a load of direct proof provided and you weren't even brave enough to quote it, preferring to call it names. Well, those are internetz. All your carefully selected proof will be ignored. To be showered with proof and claim none was received, while being afraid to even quote the material 1/10. Oh no, I am not afraid. In fact, I would welcome direct proof. There is no better way to prove my own point than to spin any proof you provide into supporting my view. I've learnt that from one so competent at it. You. Unfortunately, there is nothing to quote as no direct proof has been offered. But more than happy to spin any that you can actually provide. However, I must once again congratulate you for supporting my view. Each post without proof just further proves you have no evidence, thus my view is more correct. I sincerely hope CCP finally take note and increase the gap between new and old players. It just isn't large enough at the moment.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1467	Posted - 2015.05.05 02:14:01 - [314] - Quote Imagine you spend 10 years building up a region like Providence. Then virtually over night a group like Brave explodes into existance next to you with no SP requirements. Everything swept away by a flash mob. No thanks. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 317	Posted - 2015.05.05 02:26:24 - [315] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: El Taron wrote: Good post, but I don't agree it's entirely a player created situation. CCP are the ones who determine the effectiveness, cost and ease of use of links, logi, ewar and cynos. (Don't get me started on how ridiculous OGB's are). If those problems were less effective, more difficult to use (piloting or SP) or more expensive then fewer players would use them and the less it becomes a concern. And I would disagree with this point too "Players don't get any benefit for not stacking deck and everything to lose for not doing. In this game so why wouldn't you if you are able?" Simply - fun. It's much more fun and satisfying to fight somebody in a "worse" ship or against the odds. Ganking somebody who didn't stand a chance is only fun if it's something expensive, someone you don't like or if you're new to pvp. You can say oh its the sandbox or whatever but I think it's bad for the game how the small gang scene is at the moment. CCP in my opinion should be looking at how they can encourage players to participate because otherwise content dries up for everybody. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, I struggle to motivate myself to undock at the moment, just because it's too hard to find content and when you eventually do, the other guy/s isn't interested in a good fight, just killing you at minimal risk to themselves whether its links,logi,ewar or a blob. That isn't good for the game, it's how you lose customers. The game has become about gangs and cynoing around for timers. I mean hardly anyone even seems to roam even now. If people aren't roaming then there is less chance of finding fights and less content generated which again is boring for everyone involved. Perhaps most people are happy farming Sanctums and occasionally forming for timers in a laggy system where their decisions and participation have virtually no bearing on the outcome of the fight and all they get to do is press F1 on whoever they're told to. I don't expect everybody to agree with me but that's definately not for me. PvP for the sake of PvP is meaningless. There are a multitude of objectives and goals in EVE - remember, the sandbox does have walls after all. Um wot? You realize that whether you are doing 1v1s in lowsec or building castles in null it's all still pixels.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 2846	Posted - 2015.05.05 03:57:38 - [316] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. Your proof of that being "cuz I said so", amirite? We don't need a proof for something that is trivial and obvious. See it goes like this: Hypothesis: Basil Pupkin is wrong. Proof: Trivial. Q.E.D. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 185	Posted - 2015.05.05 04:41:31 - [317] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. Your proof of that being "cuz I said so", amirite? We don't need a proof for something that is trivial and obvious. See it goes like this: Hypothesis: Basil Pupkin is wrong. Proof: Trivial. Q.E.D. So, from "cuz I said so" we came down to "lalala I can't hear you". Well, as expected. Thoughtless humans confronted with reality do that all the time. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Amy Undergood Life Associates 11	Posted - 2015.05.05 04:46:31 - [318] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Imagine you spent 10 years building up a region like Providence and no Brave can approach it now. Booooooooooooooring. No thanks. Confirming once again that new players can make a huge difference, not only in pvp, but in sov null pvp too. Grrr new players. Thanks Basil.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15816	Posted - 2015.05.05 05:07:55 - [319] - Quote The only SP you need for pvp is the ability to pilot a frigate, strap on a mwd and fit a point of some kind. Everything else is an optional extra. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Deuce McGuilicuddy Jebediah's Minimally Invasive Salvage and Recovery 13	Posted - 2015.05.05 06:00:13 - [320] - Quote Dear CCP, I demand a grappling hook. The Great Wall of SP has truly proven to be insurmountable. As a newish player with less than 50, 80, 120 or however many million skill points Basil pulls out of his ass to suit his hypothesis (I use this term in the loosest possible fashion) I do hereby swear that if I do not have a grappling hook and a ninja outfit to go with it in my hangar when I log in in the morning I will proceed to shoot the monument in Jita for the remainder of my subscription then rage quit. Or I would if I had gotten around to training those gunnery skills. Correction CCP, I will be bumping the monument in Jita, and I blame my inability to protest properly on Basils SP wall. Kindest regards, Deuce
Kaely Tanniss Vindictive Women 389	Posted - 2015.05.05 06:18:31 - [321] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Akirei Scytale wrote: Oh, and Basil, you're very wrong. Your proof of that being "cuz I said so", amirite? Teckos Pech wrote: I'd advise stop feeding the troll here. If you make a valid point he'll either ignore it, or claim it is one of the "wall jumping" exceptions which don't count or something. SP wall leaping mechanics are situations when even a dog or a bot is equally useful to a high SP character, not to mention the most ill-described low SP one. In those situation SP indeed does not matter, which is why they are called "SP wall leaping mechanics", and there's just 3 of them, surely even a goon can count that high. Why are you so stuck on the concept of a "SP wall"? For a 2010 char this seems rather pointless. You either are trying to be the "hero" of the low SP chars, or you yourself have had a large lapse in your play time and have low SP yourself. SP determines what you can use..not how you use it. The real skill in a pilot is not a number plastered on your char sheet. You have no killborad at all, which doesn't mean anything..granted, but it shows you are not an active PvPer in any form and therefor makes your assesment of the "SP wall" rather uncredible. You have to do, in order to know. Nothing towards you personally or course. Many people have many chars, so ifyou do indeed PvP on another character, than I can admit I was wrong about that aspect of my comment...but I still do not agree with the "SP wall" point. Again..skill is determined by the pilot, not the SP number. Any veteran PvPer knows this. Having a more expensive car doesn't make someone a better driver... Sp is what you train to use items..such as ships and modules...skill is how a player uses them to the best of his ability. There is a big difference between the two. The player who can use what he has better..wins...not the player who can use more gadgets. Think about it.. If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Deuce McGuilicuddy Jebediah's Minimally Invasive Salvage and Recovery 14	Posted - 2015.05.05 06:42:07 - [322] - Quote I'm pretty sure no matter how much evidence and logic you throw at Basil, you will always get the same response from him. Pretty much everyone in the thread has argued with him and refuted every point he made, and he hasn't even lost his stride. He's made himself look so ignorant I almost feel bad for him. Then I remember he plays this same game in every thread that he posts in. I don't even think he's a troll. I truly believe that he is, in fact, that dense.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 2847	Posted - 2015.05.05 06:45:58 - [323] - Quote Deuce McGuilicuddy wrote: I'm pretty sure no matter how much evidence and logic you throw at Basil, you will always get the same response from him. Pretty much everyone in the thread has argued with him and refuted every point he made, and he hasn't even lost his stride. He's made himself look so ignorant I almost feel bad for him. Then I remember he plays this same game in every thread that he posts in. I don't even think he's a troll. I truly believe that he is, in fact, that dense. Delusional, IMO. But hey...a word that starts with 'd'. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Deuce McGuilicuddy Jebediah's Minimally Invasive Salvage and Recovery 16	Posted - 2015.05.05 07:06:57 - [324] - Quote I had another "D" word in mind when I started the post, but I figured I'd save the ISD's from having to snip out a legitimate ad hominem attack.
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 23534	Posted - 2015.05.05 07:09:56 - [325] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Deuce McGuilicuddy wrote: I'm pretty sure no matter how much evidence and logic you throw at Basil, you will always get the same response from him. Pretty much everyone in the thread has argued with him and refuted every point he made, and he hasn't even lost his stride. He's made himself look so ignorant I almost feel bad for him. Then I remember he plays this same game in every thread that he posts in. I don't even think he's a troll. I truly believe that he is, in fact, that dense. Delusional, IMO. But hey...a word that starts with 'd'. The sad part is that people will complain about me calling it out what it is. A mental health issue. He's either a great actor, or ill. "You emotional type". Just turn that around and look at what it says about him. He's not rational. That's nuts. There is no "emotional type". Every single human being is driven by their feelings, including all those people who suppress them because of ... experiences. He's so much off, he thinks of himself higher than the rest. Higher than normally functioning human beings, compared to him who is - at best - half of that without realising. Every one of us is, in his view, underneath him. He's so completely locked up inside his logic ... ... that no matter what ... ... either one breaks him and makes him show his suppressed side ... ... or he'll just continue this way. I wasn't kidding or trolling when I said avoiding him would be a good thing. IRL I would stay far away from such a person, because that guy would kill you if he figured out a way to get away with it. As I said ... either a great actor, or he should visit a mental health institute. Ban me all you want for this. It's not an attack, it's simply the truth. DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ? LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !! Corpses4Drifters CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !! FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
Jenshae Chiroptera 1470	Posted - 2015.05.05 11:05:41 - [326] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Imagine you spend 10 years building up a region like Providence. Then virtually over night a group like Brave explodes into existance next to you with no SP requirements. Everything swept away by a flash mob. No thanks. Imagine you spent 10 years building up a region like Providence and no Brave can approach it now. Booooooooooooooring. No thanks. ... or they can build up and not have a sense of entitlement and immediate self gratification. Skill points also reduced the pay to win factor. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 33876	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:59:58 - [327] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Um wot? You realize that whether you are doing 1v1s in lowsec or building castles in null it's all still pixels. So? If I want to just PvP with no set goal in mind, there are other games that offer much more complex and engaging gameplay than EVE. MMOs are all about the social aspect, if you want to play it as a solo game, you are doing it very, very wrong. EVE is all about the community and building up your community's strength. Why do bad threads happen to good people?
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 307	Posted - 2015.05.05 14:23:39 - [328] - Quote Eve is all about telling other players how to play the damn game! Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1231	Posted - 2015.05.05 14:27:20 - [329] - Quote I think the answer is amazingly simple; Let people play in the sandbox how they want. Google Risk Vs Reward and come up with dozens of threads with thousands of replies. Google risk aversion and come up with the same thing. Realize that unless the reward is from ganking, the 'reward' from PvP is perceived most of the time. Trying to change people playing a video game is ridiculous. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 33877	Posted - 2015.05.05 14:28:34 - [330] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: Eve is all about telling other players how to play the damn game! Of course! Ever since I've subbed, I've had a slew of people tell me this and that and how I should play. Even this thread is someone telling me how I should play. Now I've started telling people too! Why do bad threads happen to good people?

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