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Do you like the HP increase?

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Paper Clips	Posted - 2006.11.11 21:44:00 - [91] No... it has good intentions, but I think it's too simple of a step.
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.12 01:45:00 - [92] Edited by: Krist Valentine on 12/11/2006 01:46:45 It's ruined solo PVP and that's all I did. Small guns are useless, small ships can't take bigships anymore. Part of EVE's charm - the fact that a new character could take an old character, is down the drain. I'm just praying that they take it out, before Kali's released. - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.12 02:08:00 - [93] I have read a lot about small gang pvp being ruined by the HP increase. While I understand why people think this; I believe the tier 2 bc's are the answer. I have a real problem with the 15 man friggie blob having the firepower to take down a lone BS on the grounds that a $15m investment should not be able to (in 90% of cases) pwn a $100m investment in a bs. The tier 2 bc's will become the new mobile gank force; fast, agile and packing a hell of a punch; bc gank squads will become the small ship of choice, with friggie and inty's relegated to fast escort, scouting and tackling. A lone bs against a 5/6 man mixed fleet of inty's and bc's is going to die just as fast as before but represent a better balance.
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.12 02:16:00 - [94] I disagree, I like the current PVP mechanics as they are. But everyone has their opinion. I just don't like the idea of not being able to fly my Vexor with small hybrids, or not being able to go out in my Ishkur solo anymore. - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!
Balian Bowmaker	Posted - 2006.11.12 02:28:00 - [95] Originally by: Krist Valentine I disagree, I like the current PVP mechanics as they are. But everyone has their opinion. I just don't like the idea of not being able to fly my Vexor with small hybrids, or not being able to go out in my Ishkur solo anymore. My thoughts exactly. If it aint broke dont fix it jeez...
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.12 02:33:00 - [96] Originally by: Cyrax Originally by: Zixxa Edited by: Zixxa on 08/11/2006 12:38:03 It is WORST CCP idea in the Eve history . QFT Agreed. ---------------------
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2006.11.12 02:39:00 - [97] Since most people seems to think the HP changes are bad, I guess CCP is right on target. If no one complained, I would say the change was innefective. People tends to complain when things change, and It has little to do with the quality of the change. I've always been feed up with the fact that a 100mil battleship would be pulverized by a small band of frigates, so the 50% bonus is bare minimum in my opinion. Sure, the dynamics will change, 1 on 1 battles will be longer and harder, small skirmishes will last a little bit longer, and a whole lot of established strategies and setups will need to be reviewed or scraped altogether. Which is great, since good PVPers will adapt fast, and cheap lowsec pirates will have a harder life. For fleets, the HP change is nearly irrelevant, but the other changes might help with the blob system(still, a lot to do on that front) Only thing I consider needs balancing now is cap capacity, recharge and usage. Not because the HP itself, but longer battles require more cap, and a proof to that is the fact that NOS became suddenly essential for a pvp setup. Balance will be reached when a Hyperion, with 8 blasters, has a 50% success rate going against a raven or a maelstron.(considering the rohk usually is not setup for close range combat...) So if full gank has a change of working, even against NOS, we have enough cap...(another side effect for this balancing is that battles will become shorter than some reported 15 mins...) Lobo
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.12 03:02:00 - [98] Originally by: Lobo Noturno Since most people seems to think the HP changes are bad, I guess CCP is right on target. If no one complained, I would say the change was innefective. People tends to complain when things change, and It has little to do with the quality of the change. I've always been feed up with the fact that a 100mil battleship would be pulverized by a small band of frigates, so the 50% bonus is bare minimum in my opinion. Sure, the dynamics will change, 1 on 1 battles will be longer and harder, small skirmishes will last a little bit longer, and a whole lot of established strategies and setups will need to be reviewed or scraped altogether. Which is great, since good PVPers will adapt fast, and cheap lowsec pirates will have a harder life. For fleets, the HP change is nearly irrelevant, but the other changes might help with the blob system(still, a lot to do on that front) Only thing I consider needs balancing now is cap capacity, recharge and usage. Not because the HP itself, but longer battles require more cap, and a proof to that is the fact that NOS became suddenly essential for a pvp setup. Balance will be reached when a Hyperion, with 8 blasters, has a 50% success rate going against a raven or a maelstron.(considering the rohk usually is not setup for close range combat...) So if full gank has a change of working, even against NOS, we have enough cap...(another side effect for this balancing is that battles will become shorter than some reported 15 mins...) Lobo 1v1's won't be longer and harder. They'll be nonexistant and impossible. It'll render small PVP corps completely useless. And you say that people complain at change whether it's good or bad or neither. This may be true, but in this case we're complaining at something which is most definitely bad. - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!
Commander Spectre	Posted - 2006.11.12 03:56:00 - [99] I think it totally sucks. I spent alot of time training t2 weapons and not only are they adding more hit points to ships...they are nerfing the t2 guns. What is the point of spending all that time training something just so it's rendered usless by the next patch? When will the devs learn that change is not allways good? You just start to get used to playing the game one way and here comes a programer with a stupid idea to mess it all up. If you are going to increase hp then you need to balance it out with more firepower, cap and ammo capacity which will basically negate the change so why even bother with it? Personally I'm getting pretty tired of all the changes. I think the time would be spent better getting what you allready have to work right. The font still sucks, dissconnects and crashes are still frequent, and the game takes up way too much CPU and has a crappy frame rate no matter what I do. (And yeah I tried all the fixes listed).
tuikyuo	Posted - 2006.11.12 06:41:00 - [100] So would people be happy if they increased cap aswell with it? Cause it just seems people are griping more about NOS then the extended battle time.
BobGhengisKhan Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.12 09:19:00 - [101] HP increase only leads to battles based completly on your cap. Increasing tactics and better gameplay? Anyone who beleives this is a fool. HP boost can go to hell imo.
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.12 10:24:00 - [102] Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win. The ship details regarding Damage output, Armour/Shield HP and their sustainability, enginnering skills and auxiliary setups will be as important as the DPS. A pilot flying the ship and the way he flies it is alsow important. I have lost fights in singularity because of errors made during the fight. Questions like: How much DPS my setup makes ? Can my ship old the damage while fighting and producing a certain amout of damage ? Will my capacitor hold during the fight ? Should I use the rigs to increase the damage ? armour/shields ? cap ? velocity ? Should I go for a dual REP tank or plate ? Have to be correctly answered, and even so, mainly because fights take longer you have to be very careffull and watch what the other pilot is doing and react before is to late. I lost some fights because I react to late not because of the setup but because of my decisions. At the moment you have 10 secs to make all this ... or better you dont have the time.
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.12 11:40:00 - [103] Originally by: Commander Spectre I think it totally sucks. I spent alot of time training t2 weapons and not only are they adding more hit points to ships...they are nerfing the t2 guns. What is the point of spending all that time training something just so it's rendered usless by the next patch? When will the devs learn that change is not allways good? You just start to get used to playing the game one way and here comes a programer with a stupid idea to mess it all up. If you are going to increase hp then you need to balance it out with more firepower, cap and ammo capacity which will basically negate the change so why even bother with it? Personally I'm getting pretty tired of all the changes. I think the time would be spent better getting what you allready have to work right. The font still sucks, dissconnects and crashes are still frequent, and the game takes up way too much CPU and has a crappy frame rate no matter what I do. (And yeah I tried all the fixes listed). Yeah, you pretty much nailed it on the head there, sadly. - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!
Aphotic Raven	Posted - 2006.11.12 12:04:00 - [104] I see what the devs are trying to do... how they are trying to lengthen fights... but i inhabit pure blind, and while the larger 6 alliances are all best chums, i am not on their pen pals list, and i spend a lot of my eve time solo-ing or with 1 friend ganking them. When it takes twice as long to kill that Af or that ceptor that wandered too close... and their friends have time (usually its between 5 and 20 to 1....) to jump in and warp to them.... and this is why it will suck, because the real PVPers who have the balls to solo will get pwned by the masses... Getting around will be somewhat easier, since having all that extra armour/shield will make MWDing to gates easy.... or better yet warping to 0km (oh thats just ******* fantaaastic....) But combat will be that much harder, not due to ship changes but due to the fact that time is something i have to spend carefully lest the 20 man gank packs catch up to me... I really dont think nerfing hit and run and encouraging large fleets to easily dominate areas and beat up on the smaller enemys is the way to go.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.12 12:10:00 - [105] Originally by: Aphotic Raven I see what the devs are trying to do... how they are trying to lengthen fights... but i inhabit pure blind, and while the larger 6 alliances are all best chums, i am not on their pen pals list, and i spend a lot of my eve time solo-ing or with 1 friend ganking them. When it takes twice as long to kill that Af or that ceptor that wandered too close... and their friends have time (usually its between 5 and 20 to 1....) to jump in and warp to them.... and this is why it will suck, because the real PVPers who have the balls to solo will get pwned by the masses... Getting around will be somewhat easier, since having all that extra armour/shield will make MWDing to gates easy.... or better yet warping to 0km (oh thats just ***** fantaaastic....) But combat will be that much harder, not due to ship changes but due to the fact that time is something i have to spend carefully lest the 20 man gank packs catch up to me... I really dont think nerfing hit and run and encouraging large fleets to easily dominate areas and beat up on the smaller enemys is the way to go. agreed. Because I said so...**
Aphotic Raven	Posted - 2006.11.12 12:12:00 - [106] Originally by: Gragnor I have read a lot about small gang pvp being ruined by the HP increase. While I understand why people think this; I believe the tier 2 bc's are the answer. I have a real problem with the 15 man friggie blob having the firepower to take down a lone BS on the grounds that a $15m investment should not be able to (in 90% of cases) pwn a $100m investment in a bs. The tier 2 bc's will become the new mobile gank force; fast, agile and packing a hell of a punch; bc gank squads will become the small ship of choice, with friggie and inty's relegated to fast escort, scouting and tackling. A lone bs against a 5/6 man mixed fleet of inty's and bc's is going to die just as fast as before but represent a better balance. WTF is that BS doing?? a domi or anything carrying drones would eat them.... 15 PLAYERS should probably be able to take down 1 if they are smart, isk ignored. Today my alliance won a suprising victory over a large group of t2 frigs with 2 battle cruisers, a cruiser and 1 interceptor, we lost no one and put a nice dent in the enemy =) Setups are the problem here... not the power of the ships... and with all that extra armour i think the real differences will be in favor of the large loner.... at least if hes smart enough to pack NOS, he will have more time to pick the weaker enemies, to change targets if neccesary and be more effective. The biggest difference will be in the gap between those who can make that 1600mm plate fit and those that had to fit the 800mm instead.... it might kill dual rep/all resist/damage mod deimos's off but i dont mind that.... On the other hand, it gives the lone gankee and the gankers time to call for help, it will extend small fleet battles but getting insta popped ina 80 V 90 fight shouldnt suprise people that much. So in the end i dont know how it will play out.... its all going towards those with lots and lots of friends around.. and against those who like to/are forced to solo.
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.12 13:45:00 - [107] Having said all this, I find it hard to believe that CCP will implement this, and break the game as they have. Taking this out of the game will make me probably the happiest EVE player around, putting it in, from what I've seen so far, will just get me out of the game. I somehow doubt that CCP are willing to risk over half their fanbase just so a bunch of ******* carebears can have yet another way to escape. - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!
Domalais Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.12 18:15:00 - [108] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win. The ship details regarding Damage output, Armour/Shield HP and their sustainability, enginnering skills and auxiliary setups will be as important as the DPS. A pilot flying the ship and the way he flies it is alsow important. I have lost fights in singularity because of errors made during the fight. Questions like: How much DPS my setup makes ? Can my ship old the damage while fighting and producing a certain amout of damage ? Will my capacitor hold during the fight ? Should I use the rigs to increase the damage ? armour/shields ? cap ? velocity ? Should I go for a dual REP tank or plate ? What you are discussing is a dream, not the reality of the hit point boost. Go on the test server and actually see what this does to combat before weighing in on it. Longer combat would be good, I agree. But you can't just change hitpoints and get a good result, this kind of change requires of fundamental rebalance of all weapons.
FalconHawk Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2006.11.12 18:38:00 - [109] HP boost is great, too bad only 1 amarr ship has a armor hp bonus, wish it would be more. Navy Augoror with 3*1600mm tungsten is already over 35k armor, not bad for a small cruiser, would be even better with a full rack of slave implants. btw i still cannot decide if this is sarcasm or not
Gut Punch Gallente The Revenant	Posted - 2006.11.12 23:45:00 - [110] Edited by: Gut Punch on 12/11/2006 23:50:17 Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win. If by balanced, you mean more cookie cutter, then yes. All this is going to do is make everyone have the same base setup. There already is the requirement for scramblers and stabs if you are in small group/one-vs-one. Just add Nosses, more cap rechargers, more Cap batteries to that list. All this is going to do is force everyone in the same direction, or at least inhibit the diversity that CCP states the game was designed around AND what the players expect. Like someone said above, if everything becomes equal why play the game. The playerbase will simply disappear, as they have in every other MMO I've played - like SWG - when all you have to do is spam a couple of buttons. Gut Punch The Revenant
Kelishnikov Industrial Warlords United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.13 00:47:00 - [111] What really sets Eve apart from other games is the ability of the new pilot to pilot his ship well, with a smart setup, and take out a more experienced character. In Everquest, WoW, ect, ect, if 5 characters fight 6 characters of the same level, they will lose. Eve currently gives the slightly outnumbered group a chance to win with good tactics. The HP increase will completely kill that. Numerical superiority of BS's will be all that matters. I suppose if PvP becomes boring I could just start autopiloting a Maller with plates through hostile systems for fun.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.13 01:51:00 - [112] nope, It nerfs cormorants and stealth bombers to the point of uselessness. Not that stealth bombers were useful for anything but popping random haulers and tech I frigs anyway.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2006.11.13 03:52:00 - [113] All these posts saying things like "now you have to think about your setup" "you have to play smart" "smart" blah blah blah. Using half or more of your highslots for nos = I win. Nearly any other module on a setup doesn't matterIt doesn't matter how many plates you have fitted. It doesn't matter that you have xxxxx more armor than the other guy, if you can't fire your guns or run your reper or even keep your hardeners running, you lose. Prolonged fighting means more time to drain cap to nothing. More hitpoints means smaller ships will have a much harder time overcoming the difference in hp because the margin is that much greater, not to mention the rampant nos that shuts them down faster. Customization, options, that's what I love about this game. This HUGE change makes so many different stragegies go out the window entirely. A change like this COULD be good, but there are a lot of other things that would need to be looked at beforehand. I mean hell, we still don't have a scrambler for 20km+...
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.13 08:33:00 - [114] Please, don't do it. Or if you must, give like 10-15% more HP, not more. Please Tuxford? No HP boost. Yesterday I was in trouble killing 7 ships with Abso and Curse. With HP boost I cannot pwn so much anymore "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" PERVS \o/
john120	Posted - 2006.11.13 09:29:00 - [115] i am against the hp increase, i've had to many fights, where i've finished killing my enemy just as the gank squad turns up to kill me, alph strick is now down the drain, it was hit badenough last hp increase. also ships will now be able to slowboat to the gate, long before we manage to kill them, eavon if there webed. if these changes go through, i shall stop pvping.
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.11.13 11:22:00 - [116] I like the HP boost
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Necroborg The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.11.13 11:25:00 - [117] I'm totally against HP increase. Small fleets trying to fight larger ones no longer have the option of picking off those who break formation in the larger fleet. When you manage to pin them down it will just take too long and the blob will have a greater chance of catching you. This style of fighting was made very difficult after the last HP increase, the next one will kill it. Eve is going to be even more about blobbing. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Irimi Nage Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:18:00 - [118] Edited by: Irimi Nage on 13/11/2006 12:22:33 I'm a gallente pilot, and I'm considering training medium and large arts/ACs. Lack of cap = craptastic. Drones and Fighters need an equivilent HP boost too. EDIT: Thought I'd add more and actually be constructive... I like the idea, and the reasoning behind the change, I just think it needs some extra balancing - but that will come. I expect it will take around 4-6 months before things settle down and the balancing is finished. Until then, I reserve judgement. I just hate that the gang changes just made my astarte primary even though I never use gang mods :( ---
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:39:00 - [119] "Do you like the HP increase? " Nope. Standard reason, it will do nothing for fleet fights and screw up small skirmishes.
Krist Valentine Amarr Freelancing Opportunists	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:15:00 - [120] Originally by: Kuolematon Please, don't do it. Or if you must, give like 10-15% more HP, not more. Please Tuxford? No HP boost. Yesterday I was in trouble killing 7 ships with Abso and Curse. With HP boost I cannot pwn so much anymore QFT. I'm really serious about this, from what I've seen, it'll ruin everything I play for. Don't get me hooked on a game that (for me) is fundamentally crippled :\ - - - - - ISD r teh pwn -- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove!

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