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Enortiz
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Posted - 2006.11.08 09:21:00 -
[1]
I tested the hp increase a few days and i have to say,fights are just not as funny as they were befor the HP increase,especially small scale fights take just to long,amarr ships need lots of cap boosters,just to kill a single ship, 4gun/4nos setups are the best solution in small scale fights atm. And in bigger fights with focus fire,there is hardly any difference,a few seconds longer,thats all. I just think the HP increase isnt a good idea. But thats just my opinion,what do you think? Do you like the hp increase or not and why?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:04:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Enortiz I tested the hp increase a few days and i have to say,fights are just not as funny as they were befor the HP increase,especially small scale fights take just to long,amarr ships need lots of cap boosters,just to kill a single ship, 4gun/4nos setups are the best solution in small scale fights atm. And in bigger fights with focus fire,there is hardly any difference,a few seconds longer,thats all. I just think the HP increase isnt a good idea. But thats just my opinion,what do you think? Do you like the hp increase or not and why?
Um, no. I hate the HP increase. Read one of the hundreds of posts I've made declaring that fact as for why
Because I said so...
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Archi Viralfury
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:42:00 -
[3]
I would totally aggree with the HP increase if there were an anti-nos rig available.
Right now im a bit on the wall, what little experiance i have had from the test server has been good experience, although i must say that the HP bonus really does seem to favor shield tankers over armor tankers(from the ships i have tried at least).
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.08 10:57:00 -
[4]
Pro : I am totally with the fact of making T1 usefull again...
Con : - Its totally retarded to not balance some ships who become useless with such changes, like stealth bomber. - T2 ships really dont need a hp boost, they have their bonii, that's fair enough.
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.08 11:14:00 -
[5]
No.
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Sean Dillon
Caldari Privateers
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:01:00 -
[6]
I hate it
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:08:00 -
[7]
Yes. I like it. It's a small step in the right direction. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:14:00 -
[8]
I like it, with reservations.
Good: it makes fights longer in most cases, giving more weight on tactics instead of insta-gank. You can also now (gasp!) call for help and they might actually get there in time to help. Imagine that.
Bad: many ship types are currently problematic (blaster ships, etc), and some are totally useless (bombers). Some tuning is needed. In general Amarr and Gallente ships and setups have problems, usually with cap.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:32:00 -
[9]
I like it, mostly because I know its something thats needed for ccp to make combat more about tactics than pure firepower.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I like it, mostly because I know its something thats needed for ccp to make combat more about tactics than pure firepower.
by tactics you mean nos right?
Because I said so...
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zixxa on 08/11/2006 12:38:03 It is WORST CCP idea in the Eve history .
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I like it, mostly because I know its something thats needed for ccp to make combat more about tactics than pure firepower.
by tactics you mean nos right?
No, I meant that if ships live longer, ccp can build on that to create sub-system targeting and stuff like that. Combat today is just too quick for stuff like that to matter much. But I dont know, maybe im just dreaming or have seen to many star trek episodes. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:43:00 -
[13]
I hate the hp increase, it makes the game dull and boring, it is an insane boost to nos and shield tanking and it nerfs armor tanking and people who need their cap for anything. Please remove it.
CCP, I really like Kali, but please remove this hp increase, I REALLY hate it.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I like it, mostly because I know its something thats needed for ccp to make combat more about tactics than pure firepower.
by tactics you mean nos right?
No, I meant that if ships live longer, ccp can build on that to create sub-system targeting and stuff like that. Combat today is just too quick for stuff like that to matter much. But I dont know, maybe im just dreaming or have seen to many star trek episodes.
meh. we already have subsystem targeting. it's called killing the other guy's drones. :p too bad caldari are immune to such tactics.
Because I said so...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:47:00 -
[15]
I like it. Same tank sizes, means if you could kill it, you still can. More HPs means more tactical options in combat - maneuverability, EW (all forms), changing ammo types, swapping drones in and out, logistics etc. become much more worth using. About the only thing that vaguely concerns me is that it might increase the prevalence of nosferatu on the battlefield.
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Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Loka on 08/11/2006 12:57:15
Originally by: James Lyrus Same tank sizes, means if you could kill it, you still can.
Only if your cap holds. Also ECM will gain in power, because failing a cycle wont be that devastating anymore.
Originally by: James Lyrus More HPs means more tactical options in combat - maneuverability, EW (all forms), changing ammo types, swapping drones in and out, logistics etc. become much more worth using.
Less tactics imo. You will be forced to use NOS or Neuts, because you cant use Injectors properly anymore. The NOSing will win a fight each time.
Regardless how uber your mods will be. Because the CAP hasnt been RAISED. Imo give the ships a flat 25% more cap, without changing the rechargetime.
So less options how to fit a ship = less tactical options. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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MOS DEF
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.08 12:58:00 -
[17]
If they make the agression timer longer then i could agree with the HP boost for SHIPS. The HP boost for plates and extenders on the other hand is totally out of line and probably the most stupid thing i ever saw. It creates imbalance left and right.
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WarGod
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:21:00 -
[18]
Fights are almost as long and as boring at the Caldari championship. *snip*
Re-Directs to private killboards is not permitted on Gal-Net - Petwraith |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 08/11/2006 12:49:26 I like it. Same tank sizes, means if you could kill it, you still can. More HPs means more tactical options in combat - maneuverability, EW (all forms), changing ammo types, swapping drones in and out, logistics etc. become much more worth using.
About the only thing that vaguely concerns me is that it might increase the prevalence of nosferatu on the battlefield, although I'm fairly sure that the dev team are aware of the 'issues' with nos.
It "might" increase the prevalence of nos? HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. Been on test lately? It's a nos fest.
Because I said so...
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:32:00 -
[20]
It puts ships which use cap for weapons at a serious disadvantage as fights take so much longer.
A Cap Booster is 100% essential on a hybrid or laser setup. Is that how it should be?
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Enortiz
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: WarGod Fights are almost as long and as boring at the Caldari championship.
Thats what i am talking about,fights are so long,its just boring.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Enortiz
Originally by: WarGod Fights are almost as long and as boring at the Caldari championship.
Thats what i am talking about,fights are so long,its just boring.
They are too long because everyone is using less guns and more Nos.
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Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.08 13:46:00 -
[23]
I was going to make a thread about this after just testing it out, but instead I will post the problems as I see it here.
First off the positives, more hitpoints = better fleet battles, you might not die before your screen loads...if your lucky, so yes fleet battles will be more interesting, but it remains to be seen, as there are not many fleet battles on the test server.
Now the negatives, more hitpoints = a terrible effect on small close range battles and the odd 1v1. This is due to the fact even though close range weapons do more damage, in small battles and 1v1's you have far less damage being dealt to the target. There is focusing fire, but on a much smaller scale.
Solution, Increase short weapons damage across the board (pulse lasers, auto cannons, blasters, and what ever those "i win button" caldari use, heavy assualt? )
The increase in short range damage weapons will allow fleet battle to get the boost they need but also allow small gang warfare (3-4 ships v 3-4 ships) to stay the way it is, becasue small gang fights are **** near perfect, no changes needed.
[ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!] |
Aurora Ming
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Posted - 2006.11.08 14:13:00 -
[24]
No I do not like the hitpoint increase for the very reasons that are listed here.. cap problems, people already asking for small guns to do more damage etc etc.. IT BREAKS to much of the game. Just wait to you go try and NPC and it takes 20 minutes to kill a spawn... (big 0.0 spawns that is). That will be really borring...
-John
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 14:15:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/11/2006 14:16:29
Im sure people didnt like the introduction of the stacking penalty either. But here we are, and Eve is better because ccp went ahead and did it anyway. Lets just see how it turns out. Yes, fights will last longer and solo pvp will take much longer, that much is pretty undisputed. Its designed to. I think we'll get used to it quickly, even though we might not like it now.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.08 15:22:00 -
[26]
Jim, the HP changes are not fun. It is not exciting in the least to sit there for 20 minutes fighting every ship you come up against.
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Anders Chydenius
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.08 15:34:00 -
[27]
I like it. ------ {o,o} (__(| -"-"- EVEMon |
mallina
Caldari DeStInY.
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Posted - 2006.11.08 15:44:00 -
[28]
Edited by: mallina on 08/11/2006 15:50:58 I like it because of what it has potential for (subsystem targeting, etc) however I think it was implemented poorly
read: Cap - nerfed Cap boosters - nerfed Lasers - nerfed Blasters - nerfed Fighters - nerfed Stealth Bombers - nerfed Artillery - nerfed Active Tanks - nerfed
NOS - boosted ----------- Turbulance |
RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.08 15:48:00 -
[29]
I can't much about it yet : We need to have some larger scale fights for that instead of testserverfights (which are nowhere near the actual game)
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.11.08 15:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kristoffer Jim, the HP changes are not fun. It is not exciting in the least to sit there for 20 minutes fighting every ship you come up against.
Well its definatly better than waiting for 20 mins to find someone to kill then kiling then in 5 seconds lol -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
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Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.08 16:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: RedClaws I can't much about it yet : We need to have some larger scale fights for that instead of testserverfights (which are nowhere near the actual game)
Well to be honest, i would prefer a better working sytem for smallscale warfare, than for large fleetwarefare.
Iam more fan of small gang and more skill than fleetlagfest. As mentioned before, NOS and non cap using weapons will just be favorised.
Cap already a real problem for non Gallente and Amarr. The only benefit Gallente had, was the little DPS supiority. With longer fights, cap will be the Damagelimiting factor.
Ppl will start to bring again low DPS, HIGH Nosing setups. But with passive tanking of some uber passive tanks, this maybe wont work either.
Future will tell. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Cyber Claw
Gallente InNova Tech Inc Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.08 16:17:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Cyber Claw on 08/11/2006 16:17:10 NOS fest, for sure, a vampire dom can beat every other bs in sisi new and old, even 2on 1
"He's dead, Jim." -a doctor, not a miracle worker |
The Armin
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.08 16:57:00 -
[33]
If I were flying Caldari, I'd be srsly happy. If I were flying Minmatar, I'd be reasonable happy, autoes is still gonna pwn. If I were flying Gallente, I'd be seriously unhappy, cause they got nerfed to h*** and back.
Amarrians should quit eve.
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.08 17:35:00 -
[34]
HP boost with nerfed/not touched weapon nerfes(hiddenly) shield tankers. Reason is existing gap in plates/extenders 1600mm RTS 3360HP Large extender t2 2100HP Armour tank has 1260HP more(with better resistance) after patch Armour tank will have 1890HP more(with better resistance) With nerfed t2 weapon situation for armour tank becomes even more good.
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Angeles
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Posted - 2006.11.08 17:42:00 -
[35]
longer lasting fights ftw :D
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Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:01:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kristoffer on 08/11/2006 18:01:57
Originally by: St Dragon
Originally by: Kristoffer Jim, the HP changes are not fun. It is not exciting in the least to sit there for 20 minutes fighting every ship you come up against.
Well its definatly better than waiting for 20 mins to find someone to kill then kiling then in 5 seconds lol
No... its not. There is nothing fun or exciting about sitting around for twenty minutes waiting for either BS to , A) run out of cap or B) run of of ammo.
Its not exciting and its not fun.
In fleets, ships will die in 23 seconds instead of 15.
Don't even bother to have small fights.
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Red DeMon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:18:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Red DeMon on 08/11/2006 18:25:15 I hate the HP boost. I was fighing a Drake with my carrier and before i killed him he had killed 6 of my fighter drones ! thats about 120mil loss if on TQ and what did the drake guy lose? His ship which cost 50mil ish?
Or maybe the Drake is overpowerd
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IHaveTenFingers
Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:22:00 -
[38]
Well im not a capital pilot, but i can tell you the 500% (?) capital hp bonus is well liked by my freinds who do fly them. it makes fights between capital ships actually last awhile, like they are supposed to. from what i understand, dread vs dread would often breach uniformity on armor tankers and slowly kill structure, this is a simple fix. it makes dread / carrier fights more epic. one problem that needs to be adressed with carriers and motherships, kali or not, they can tank each other indefinitely. fighters need change. not necessarily a boost, but.. aww hell i dunno, boost them. and develop capital nos so we can make uber sized nosdomis .
anyways heres my take on tech I hp boost as for problems with amarr needing cap boosters? consider a couple things: 1: rigs, especially energy grid rigs, these make ship unpredictable, who knows ya might have some cap recharge rigs that dont even have a side effect yet.... 2: lasers. these have sucked for awhile now. for as long as i can remember they have sucked. if ccp wakes up and fixes these, then amarr ships will be competent again.
Gallente ships having blaster problems? im not sure what these problems are. i test drove a hyperion and it ripped a tanked raven to shreds after about 3-4 minutes. (i use tech I) if all you gallente spamming nublars are sad that you cant instantly kill any ship, keep in mind thats what the hp bonus is for. its also ccp's answer to high sec gank squads. *cough*H-G-I*cough*
------------------------------------ My Opinions in no way reflect those of other members of ADVANCED Combat and Engineering.
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Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: IHaveTenFingers
Gallente ships having blaster problems? im not sure what these problems are. i test drove a hyperion and it ripped a tanked raven to shreds after about 3-4 minutes. (i use tech I) if all you gallente spamming nublars are sad that you cant instantly kill any ship, keep in mind thats what the hp bonus is for. its also ccp's answer to high sec gank squads. *cough*H-G-I*cough*
Then that raven was quite a failure who must have had a crappier fitting and crappier skills then you.
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Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:34:00 -
[40]
While I do like the change, I really would like to see a capacitor boost as well...especially for Amarr and Gallente ships.
Merc Blog |
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Lobo Noturno
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:52:00 -
[41]
I agree with those that liked the change. Ships need to last longer to make people more attached to them, to feel they are actually worth the ISK. Nothing is more frustrating for a newbie than to see his first(and second and third) battleship destroyed in seconds by a gate camp. This newbie can't even shot back in his first few pvp encounters. With the HP change, people will have better chances to learn how to fight and actually enjoy it.
Now, the HP fix brings a ton of problems, mainly with cap consumption, that right now seems to benefit Caldari and Minmatar. Cap utilization by blasters and lasers need to be reviewed, and total cap capacity for these ships might also need some tweaking. NOS hardening rigs would be great to avoid total reliance on NOS, and some ships that make great shield passive tanks need a severe nerf(these people should either tank or gank, not both), since they are way better for carebears than other races ships.(balance?)
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.08 18:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Im sure people didnt like the introduction of the stacking penalty either. But here we are, and Eve is better because ccp went ahead and did it anyway.
the stacking penalty affected all races (somewhat) equally. this change does not. it's heavily favouring capless weapons and making nos a requirement for pvp. in addition the devs (assuming tux isnt messing with this alone) neglected to see all the other problems they created with this change. just go and have a look at the thread where tux first announced the hp boost. notice how there are a ton of obvious implications to this which dont even get mentioned in his post.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Lets just see how it turns out.
because its not obvious that this will nerf laser/blaster-ships?
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Jacob Holland
Gallente FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:02:00 -
[43]
No. Don't like it at all.
It won't solve the "Oh, I was primary then was I?" problem because fifty BS will still kill one in very short order. The Vampadom will be even more painful, and worse you'll be sitting there for ages while you wait for the drones to chew through you with precisely the same tactical options as you had before (except for the fact that with ECM somewhat reduced you'll have more chance of locking). It's an attempt to solve the survivability problem of ships in fleet fights but it deals with the wrong half of the problem. The gang changes might help with that but players are always going to try to bring as much firepower to bear on any one target regardless. And of course stopping any form of focus is to reduce all fleet ops to the level of POS warfare - from the POS's point of view.
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:18:00 -
[44]
No.
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Avoid
Gallente Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:23:00 -
[45]
One word "G A Y"
And its not helping seeing so many guys who know **** about pvp saying its so good.
FOr those nubs who think they are nber when they fly in a blob, its good cause they will have a chance to reach there stupid corp m8s when they are getting killed by corps like omnor.
The only cool thing in kali is the changes to probes. The cool thing in eve, is that you have that feeling "i can go and make change" In karli it will be "I can go make a change IF im together whit 200 other guys"
Do you think battles will last longer whit this **** ? no it will just be bigger blobs and even more gank, why put your self in 50% 50% battle every time you want to kill smtg ? There is no1 whit just a little brain who will do that. The times when you could go find a one on one are long gone, and there is nothing ccp can do to bring it back.
The problem for guys like us in small corps is that we dont like flying in blobs, and even if we wanted to, we cant get the numbers. So for us its like seeing the end of our existence in eve. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes "Here was the brand of the cigerates i smoke"
I don't smoke - Cortes |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:34:00 -
[46]
"Tuxford perfectly strikes Eve Online wrecking for 7,500 cancelled accounts" is the first thing that springs to mind.
So, no.
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Thud
Caldari Mad-Warping-Maniacs
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Posted - 2006.11.08 19:35:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Avoid One word "G A Y"
And its not helping seeing so many guys who know **** about pvp saying its so good.
FOr those nubs who think they are nber when they fly in a blob, its good cause they will have a chance to reach there stupid corp m8s when they are getting killed by corps like omnor.
The only cool thing in kali is the changes to probes. The cool thing in eve, is that you have that feeling "i can go and make change" In karli it will be "I can go make a change IF im together whit 200 other guys"
Do you think battles will last longer whit this **** ? no it will just be bigger blobs and even more gank, why put your self in 50% 50% battle every time you want to kill smtg ? There is no1 whit just a little brain who will do that. The times when you could go find a one on one are long gone, and there is nothing ccp can do to bring it back.
The problem for guys like us in small corps is that we dont like flying in blobs, and even if we wanted to, we cant get the numbers. So for us its like seeing the end of our existence in eve.
qft. nothing else to add.
____ ____ My english is bad. |
Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux "Tuxford perfectly strikes Eve Online wrecking for 7,500 cancelled accounts" is the first thing that springs to mind.
So, no.
Agree, and if this hits TQ and isn't promptly rolled back, my account will get canceled. This is not fun and its not worth my money The only people who seem to support this are those who don't appear to have much pvp experience.
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Kharakan
Amarr GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: The Armin If I were flying Caldari, I'd be srsly happy. If I were flying Minmatar, I'd be reasonable happy, autoes is still gonna pwn. If I were flying Gallente, I'd be seriously unhappy, cause they got nerfed to h*** and back.
Amarrians should quit eve.
*is ready to start training jovia- erm, caldari*
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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IHaveTenFingers
Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2006.11.08 20:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lobo Noturno I agree with those that liked the change. Ships need to last longer to make people more attached to them, to feel they are actually worth the ISK. Nothing is more frustrating for a newbie than to see his first(and second and third) battleship destroyed in seconds by a gate camp. This newbie can't even shot back in his first few pvp encounters. With the HP change, people will have better chances to learn how to fight and actually enjoy it.
Now, the HP fix brings a ton of problems, mainly with cap consumption, that right now seems to benefit Caldari and Minmatar. Cap utilization by blasters and lasers need to be reviewed, and total cap capacity for these ships might also need some tweaking. NOS hardening rigs would be great to avoid total reliance on NOS, and some ships that make great shield passive tanks need a severe nerf(these people should either tank or gank, not both), since they are way better for carebears than other races ships.(balance?)
Nos hardeners. best idea ever.
------------------------------------ My Opinions in no way reflect those of other members of ADVANCED Combat and Engineering.
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Thud
Caldari Mad-Warping-Maniacs
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Posted - 2006.11.08 21:05:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kristoffer
The only people who seem to support this are those who don't appear to have much pvp experience.
Or blob warriors. But a lot of people dont like blob war,small scale close range fights are still the most excinting way to fight and the only reason i still play the game. If they scerw small scale fight with this hp increase i have no reason to pay my acc. I played in a blob allie for allmost a year and there is now way that i will do that ever again. ____ ____ My english is bad. |
Lady Gadiva
Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.08 21:26:00 -
[52]
The HP increase is gonna break so much more than it fixes, it's really quite depressing.
In one fell swoop CCP have nerfed all my favourite things in Eve.
The Aplha Muninn, now consigned to the garage cos its aplha strike is now an irritating itch rather than the "OMFG what the hell just hit me" it SHOULD be.
Those TechII Large Blasters i trained have now got as much chance of killing something befor ei run out of cap as a spit ball.
Calling it Eve Online is kinda false advertising really.
Long live Caldari Online.
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emepror
Gallente Flying Spaghetti Monsterz Serenus Letum
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Posted - 2006.11.08 21:31:00 -
[53]
to bad its coming i doubt CCP will get rid of it plus i like it, im a miner so that means i last longer and on missions too
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Max Grief
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.08 22:00:00 -
[54]
I like the idea behind it
Longer fights, gives way to more time for tatics, different stratagies different approaches to small scale skirmishes
I don't think a single person would disagree with when you get into a fleet fight, and your the first sucker out of warp and die instantly, thats not really that enjoyable more HP gives you a chance to do something other than bend over.
THIS ALL SAID MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE!
the hp boost needs to be coupled with boosts to other areas
Mainly cap.
I don't think anyone can disagree with the abbadon's setup where she can only maintain combat effectiveness for 4 min (without boosters) before she dead caps, and thats only with guns running not even with a tank online. A cap increase of 50% or greater would be a welcome solution to this problem and it has a reality factor too. Would the ammarians really build a ship (the same ammarians that are famous for their ships capacator size and recharge) really say when designing their greatest new battleship
Engineer: "Hey guys, How big of a battery should we throw in this thing?" Engineer2: "Who cares, lets just toss in some hampsters on wheels and call it a day" Engineer3: "But what about the guns, the turrets will draw massivly from the ships power grid how will our commanders hold the battlefield if the lights go off after 4 minutes of combat???" Engineer1: "Uhhhhhhhh" Engineer2: "Uhhh, More hampsters?"
... ect
Something needs to be looked at here...
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Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.08 23:11:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Max Grief
Longer fights, gives way to more time for tatics, different stratagies different approaches to small scale skirmishes
I don't think a single person would disagree with when you get into a fleet fight, and your the first sucker out of warp and die instantly, thats not really that enjoyable more HP gives you a chance to do something other than bend over.
THIS ALL SAID MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE!
Your going to live 20 seconds instead of 15 in a fleet fight. These changes encourage GANK and blobbing more than they do tactics. That is ALL that needs to be said. To get through the mass of increased armor HP, you need more ships and more damage. Blobbing +1. Small fights -1.
This just ruins the fun.
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Redjello Ninja
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:30:00 -
[56]
Oh god...I can see it now, AC Megathrons.
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Susa Ou
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:38:00 -
[57]
If it wasn't for the Warp to 0km, the buff to local, and the nurfing of T2 ammo, then I would be ok with the HP boost. As it stands, all these things added together is a very very bad thing.
Simply forcing people to make the 15km dash to the gate (disabling Instas and no warp to 0km) would justify the HP boost and the buff to local. But as it stands, when you die, its going to be in 0.0 to a large gang and you stuck in a bubble. Dying to one or two guys in 0.3 is simply going to become rare.
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Harcole
Amarr Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.11.09 01:47:00 -
[58]
I dislike this change as I stated in the post "Nooooooooo Amarr nerfed again" but as VERY quick sumary...
Apocs new role...
4 Heavy Nos 4 Heavy Neutralizers 1 MWD 2 20km Scramblers 2 Webbys Tank and CPU as required on the lows...
Abbadon...
See above
Geddon... Park in station and use as paper weight...
Fitting lasers to any ship is like sticking a feather duster in a missile launcher, all you'll do is tickle a ship to the point it gets somewhat annoyed at you then it will kill you when your cap drys up.
Only current idea to fix this and keep setups anything like they are currently is to take away the current mid slots and fit 4 injectors then fill the cargo bay.
give amarr +50% or even 35% just give us some long needed love!
Cheers Harcole
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Matrices Reborn
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 01:58:00 -
[59]
What "tactics," guys?
You mean you spam the orbit key and watch the red bars go down at 50% slower rate, increasing boredom? You mean give morons who don't watch local or know how to keep track of intel in 0.0 a freebie out of rightly being killed, by giving them extra time to get friends' help. You mean nerfing solo and small-gang raiding?
I agree it would be cool if it was actually accompanied by things to make it cool, ie. real tactics like sub-system targeting. But you can't say it's cool because you assume that stuff is going to come in the future...
"Hey it's cool to make the airplane try to fly off that mountain, meh mb we try to put wings on it later."
Not logical, guys.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 02:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Matrices Reborn What "tactics," guys?
The tactic of small fights being mass nosfests/stalemates/deaggressionpartys and of ~20 strength racials on Rooks to make things more balanced.
You know, everything that was boring before - waiting while the blob arrives, ECM and Nos - multiplied by a factor of crazy.
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Genericforumalt
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2006.11.09 02:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Aurora Ming No I do not like the hitpoint increase for the very reasons that are listed here.. cap problems, people already asking for small guns to do more damage etc etc.. IT BREAKS to much of the game. Just wait to you go try and NPC and it takes 20 minutes to kill a spawn... (big 0.0 spawns that is). That will be really borring...
-John
I thought the HP increase didn't effect NPCs?
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.09 03:56:00 -
[62]
Ok.. I've been flamed for this in several other threads but I guess I'll go ahead and reiterate.. As stated by others in this thread alliance warefare is mostly unaffected by the HP boost.. "23 seconds of life vs 15 seconds in a fleet battle" Great.. No big change to alliance/pos warfare so those people need to go away and plan their next big blob after the lag/pos bugs are squashed.. Now to get to the ones who really suffer from this change.. Solo gankers/pirates.. This is really going to nerf that playstyle.. Nerf it to the point of not even being a viable playstyle in fact.. BUT.. Just how effective is that playstyle as it is already? Effective? **** effective.. So much so that noone dares step into low sec anymore at all unless they are a vet.. And vets rarely ever get ganked as they are well.. Vets.. So all we are left with is all this low sec space with noone but vets and pirates vainly trying to kill each other because thats all there is to try and kill anymore.. All the timid players and carebears that eveyone wants to prey upon are in high sec.. And lets face it.. Most vets and pirates call them dumb and inexperianced but they seem to have enough of a grasp of the game mechanics to realize that they have little chance of doing more than providing a few seconds of sport for the killers flying around.. Pirates are a minor but VERY vocal segment of the eve playerbase.. They like to kill people and thats all good and well.. TBH they are some of the most inovative and skilled pvpers in the game and I salute your ingenuity and tactics.. Its a sandbox game so do as you wish if thats what pleases you.. But CCP has to balance the game for ALL players not just the killers looking for some action.. I hear whine after whine about how there is noone to kill and if you nerf my playstyle even more I wont be able to do it anymore.. So what to do.. What to do.. Boost pirating so they can now kill everyone? Hmm not very balanced I'd say.. Improve the value of low sec so the rewards overcome the price of getting killed? Thats just another inflation boost that effects all of eve not just pirates.. So what are we left with.. Nerfing the ability of solo players to kill at will.. Eve has been and always will be a game dedigned more for team play and gangs.. Be it a groups of players or one player with multiple accounts.. So I guess what we need to do is to give CCP a chance to let ALL players get a slice of the action and TRY to start a general migration from high sec to low sec/0.0 space.. I like to solo pvp.. I like to solo pirate on the odd occasion.. But I'm in the same boat as all the others.. No targets.. And with the current game mechanics its only going to get worse as even the pirates will lose interest in the game as they will eventually get no action at all.. So yeah thats a policy we need to keep.. Change hurts.. But change causes new opportunitys to arise and be taken advantage of.. Kali has tons of changes that are great.. Some that are controversial.. And some that are the death of certain playstyles.. So I say keep the debate going and then after kali hits give it a month to see the ACTUAL changes and then gauge what is crap and what is good.. I want to see more people in low sec and I'm thinking this will do the trick if given half a chance.. Besides.. If some changes really are borked its just a downtime away to roll them back and fix them after all..
So yeah.. I like the HP boost and any boost/nerf that lets more targets wander into my sights..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Goca
Minmatar Steel Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 04:25:00 -
[63]
I had hope that Kali or wtf they call it now would be kinda cool, yet seriously I have seen nothing that actually makes this game funner to play, nothing.. not one thing..
the gang system is the most retarded thing I have yet seen, trying to fix something that isn't broken.. if it causes lag then figure out how to get rid of the aspects that cause lag, leave the rest of the bloody thing alone... we don't need a skill to show us who is a good FC, FFS!! Nerf this nerf that, nerf it all.. stick in another thing we have to pay for, ingame chat when everyone already uses the relatively inexpensive TS/Vent or VOIP anyhow..
and then let's raise HP... like wtf??? what the hell for? so we can see more massive blobs? so we can be bored to tears?
fix the lag, give us some shiny new ships and toys to play with, spice up some colors, make the maps and scanners better and more useful, fix up some of the corp and alliance related things to make it a tad easier to give permissions to players, call it good, don't **** up a game that is growing nicely as it is...
Has anyone at CCP seen what happens when a game developer screws with a succesful product? It's called a ghost town..
Just one case in point from my own experience, Tribes, a hugely succesful early FPS. thousands upon thousands of people on every night, excellent game, fun. They decided to make it "better", Tribes2 was born, anyone with dialup could no longer play, the old fun things in the game were removed or changed because they were "overpowered", what used to take seconds to do now took an hour, it was more difficult for a new player to start, everything changed.. people dropped, servers dropped.. the game might have a hundred maybe two hundred playing now even though Tribes:Vengeance was released and which could also be judged a complete failure..
now Tribes is gone, they took a succeful thing and instead of doing a few tweaks to keep it fresh without changing everything, they decided to change some of the best things in the game..
Let's all hope that doesn't happen here... I is Goca |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.09 04:37:00 -
[64]
So Goca.. What would you like to see done to bring the 80% playerbase that stays in high sec to go to low sec/0.0? I keep seeing all manner of "OMG THE GAME WILL DIE ONOS I'M GOING TO CANCEL MY ACCOUNT AND SO ARE MY CORP MATES IF THIS MAKES IT IN.." So great.. 20% of the playerbase leaves and all we have left are mission runners and miners and alliance blobs.. If you disagree with the changes try to suggest another way of getting players involved and not some random rant about how it all sucks..
Sorry to pick on you but its really getting silly with all the doom and gloom running around the forums atm with no recomendations attached if they disagree..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Goca
Minmatar Steel Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 04:52:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Goca on 09/11/2006 04:55:11 Edited by: Goca on 09/11/2006 04:54:33
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus So Goca.. What would you like to see done to bring the 80% playerbase that stays in high sec to go to low sec/0.0? I keep seeing all manner of "OMG THE GAME WILL DIE ONOS I'M GOING TO CANCEL MY ACCOUNT AND SO ARE MY CORP MATES IF THIS MAKES IT IN.." So great.. 20% of the playerbase leaves and all we have left are mission runners and miners and alliance blobs.. If you disagree with the changes try to suggest another way of getting players involved and not some random rant about how it all sucks..
Sorry to pick on you but its really getting silly with all the doom and gloom running around the forums atm with no recomendations attached if they disagree..
how is nerfing good weapon systems? installing a pay to play voice chat system (when we already have other working options) sticking more HP's on ships so we have LARGER blobs, revamping a working gang system, going to bring more people out to 0.0?????
I did recommend what to do, give us a few more shiny weapons, a few more shiny ships, a few more shiny modules, hell maybe make a new breed of NPC with some interesting drops, make a few tougher complexes/missions, move a few things around so we don't have such congested places like Jita, give us some new POS tools, make corp/alliances relations easier to do, make the corp/alliance wallet easier and more constructive, fix the lag, fix the queues.
The game is growing as it is, why screw with alot of working, hard trained for and loved things..
There is a reason there is alot of doom and gloom, people are not just talking out of their asses here, many of these players have been here since Beta, I have not, but yes I DO know alot of people who are asking very seriously why they should spend their money on something so screwed when things as they are right now this instant are pretty **** good except the lag and queues..
This is an immensely fun game, maybe because some things are overpowered and unbalanced, it means sometimes you have to work at it to "overpower" that overpowered ship/module/weapon and when you do, you are the king of the world.. nerfing it all down to the point that everything is basically the same and everything becomes a timesink will kill this game, mark my words..
You don't have to believe me, you can say "can I have your stuff" but it's happened in countless games and it would be a true shame for a growing exciting game like this to be relegated to the bargain bin like so many before it all because they fixed what ain't broke...
I is Goca |
cloudkey
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.09 05:02:00 -
[66]
Edited by: cloudkey on 09/11/2006 05:05:00 Dred'Pirate Jesus
"So great.. 20% of the playerbase leaves and all we have left are mission runners and miners and alliance blobs.. "
i think this will happen in kali after HP boost. do you want know why? HP boost+nos = no blob no win. solo or smallscale fight will reduce。every1 know its impossibility or just boring to kill some1 by 1v1 or smallscale. so alliance blobs will more and more without doubt but smallsacle pvp will reduce quickly.
do you think blob and wait for hours to kill 1-2 ship have more fun? PVPer will left this game and "all we have left are mission runners and miners and alliance blobs",yes, all mission and miners,why not?no one can kill me if i fit nos and i cant kill any1 myself,so ,what can i do? i only can run mission and mine or rat belt. if i want more fun,i need find a big blob gang and wait looooong time camp gate or something to get killmail. so you will find you just only can run mission or mine or rat npc you self,no more.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.09 05:12:00 -
[67]
And your suggestions for getting players out of high sec is?
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 05:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Goca how is nerfing good weapon systems? installing a pay to play voice chat system (when we already have other working options) sticking more HP's on ships so we have LARGER blobs, revamping a working gang system, going to bring more people out to 0.0?????
I did recommend what to do, give us a few more shiny weapons, a few more shiny ships, a few more shiny modules, hell maybe make a new breed of NPC with some interesting drops, make a few tougher complexes/missions, move a few things around so we don't have such congested places like Jita, give us some new POS tools, make corp/alliances relations easier to do, make the corp/alliance wallet easier and more constructive, fix the lag, fix the queues.
The game is growing as it is, why screw with alot of working, hard trained for and loved things..
There is a reason there is alot of doom and gloom, people are not just talking out of their asses here, many of these players have been here since Beta, I have not, but yes I DO know alot of people who are asking very seriously why they should spend their money on something so screwed when things as they are right now this instant are pretty **** good except the lag and queues..
This is an immensely fun game, maybe because some things are overpowered and unbalanced, it means sometimes you have to work at it to "overpower" that overpowered ship/module/weapon and when you do, you are the king of the world.. nerfing it all down to the point that everything is basically the same and everything becomes a timesink will kill this game, mark my words..
You don't have to believe me, you can say "can I have your stuff" but it's happened in countless games and it would be a true shame for a growing exciting game like this to be relegated to the bargain bin like so many before it all because they fixed what ain't broke...
Well I don't need your stuff as I've been quite the success with trading plex runs and escrow reselling.. And your suggestions of even more powerful ships/mods just make it even easier to solo gank at will are lol.. and thats the problem.. Its far to easy to pirate with the current mechanics.. Hell I took a T2 fitted rax and killed an entire newb corp of rat hunters by myself.. 3 Kestrals a Catalyst and a Maller.. All relativly new players just getting into the game and thinking they were safe in a group.. LOL! Yeah thats balanced game play..
And you wonder why they stay in high sec..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Ephemeron
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2006.11.09 06:12:00 -
[69]
I don't want the HP increase.
I am relatively happy with he way combat is in EVE. There are problems like ECM, lack of med slots of Amarr ships, Nos.. but HP of ships doesn't feel like an issue at all. Increasing HPs by 50% to everything effects a lot of active modules in game, it's not a minor fix, it's a shift in new direction, with end result needing more balance adjustments than current situation.
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May Long
Caldari Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.11.09 06:24:00 -
[70]
Personally I like the fact that Capital ships have a HP boost, they needed it. they SHOULD be hard to kill and take a lot of firepower.
on the other hand, I do not really think that the HP boost is going to help a lot in fight, small ones are boring and fleets "as said earlier many times" will still be short. I perpose that we dont do the HP boost for T1/T2 ships but instead make a group attack nerf. If 8-10 ships are attacking one they are going to insta pop, make it so they reduce damage. . .call it 'blast wave reduction' or something. this would cause big battles to have to choose there foes in smaller groups and extend the lives of each. _________________ Live long a prosper many times. . .a good sig pending >_> |
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.09 06:27:00 -
[71]
Edited by: MECTO on 09/11/2006 06:27:10 if kali: the killer of small gang pvp will hit TQ. il rethink the idea about usefulness of my accs - i don't like blobbing and fleets that much rly, solo and small gang - is much more interesting and with kali killing it - **** no good
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.09 06:32:00 -
[72]
on the other side - im happy with it! i can warp to 0 and can't be killed even if i aggro and then jump to gate/dock or i can jump 100 km of gate and make all my way to next gate - u can't touch me, i can mine, kill npc and ebay all day long - pretty funny tbh
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Andreaz Kotz
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.09 07:03:00 -
[73]
44K armor with 2 plates IS kinda cool..
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Raven Lin
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 07:06:00 -
[74]
How about an increase to capacitor cap and a respective increase to capacitor recharge rate to keep it in line?
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Goca
Minmatar Steel Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.09 08:10:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Goca on 09/11/2006 08:13:52 Edited by: Goca on 09/11/2006 08:13:22
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: Goca how is nerfing good weapon systems? installing a pay to play voice chat system (when we already have other working options) sticking more HP's on ships so we have LARGER blobs, revamping a working gang system, going to bring more people out to 0.0?????
I did recommend what to do, give us a few more shiny weapons, a few more shiny ships, a few more shiny modules, hell maybe make a new breed of NPC with some interesting drops, make a few tougher complexes/missions, move a few things around so we don't have such congested places like Jita, give us some new POS tools, make corp/alliances relations easier to do, make the corp/alliance wallet easier and more constructive, fix the lag, fix the queues.
The game is growing as it is, why screw with alot of working, hard trained for and loved things..
There is a reason there is alot of doom and gloom, people are not just talking out of their asses here, many of these players have been here since Beta, I have not, but yes I DO know alot of people who are asking very seriously why they should spend their money on something so screwed when things as they are right now this instant are pretty **** good except the lag and queues..
This is an immensely fun game, maybe because some things are overpowered and unbalanced, it means sometimes you have to work at it to "overpower" that overpowered ship/module/weapon and when you do, you are the king of the world.. nerfing it all down to the point that everything is basically the same and everything becomes a timesink will kill this game, mark my words..
You don't have to believe me, you can say "can I have your stuff" but it's happened in countless games and it would be a true shame for a growing exciting game like this to be relegated to the bargain bin like so many before it all because they fixed what ain't broke...
Well I don't need your stuff as I've been quite the success with trading plex runs and escrow reselling.. And your suggestions of even more powerful ships/mods just make it even easier to solo gank at will are lol.. and thats the problem.. Its far to easy to pirate with the current mechanics.. Hell I took a T2 fitted rax and killed an entire newb corp of rat hunters by myself.. 3 Kestrals a Catalyst and a Maller.. All relativly new players just getting into the game and thinking they were safe in a group.. LOL! Yeah thats balanced game play..
And you wonder why they stay in high sec..
HUH? more powerful? I said new, not necessarily more powerful, just new ships, yes a rail for Caldari sure, no argument it's does not have to an uber sniper, it doesn't even have to be as good as other races railships, i don't care, but a couple little changes like that, no problem for me..
as to you killing noobs in a T2? like seriously wtf does that have to do with anything? so you are saying you should NOT be able to have killed them? I dunno language problem or what here, but not a clue what you are trying to say to be honest sorry..
I don't even know if you agree or disagree with me :/
and what does staying in high sec or not staying in high sec have to do with hp's? so they should not be able to be killed ever? warp to 0km is good enough, the one's who want into 0.0 now will have a chance the day after they make their account, no buying bm's no nothing, some will make it some won't simple as that.. Nor in all reality should we force people to move out of empire if they don't want to, I know lot's of people who are perfectly fine with empire and no matter what have no interest in going to 0.0... I is Goca |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.09 10:15:00 -
[76]
I'm torn between the nerf of my ablility to solo gank and the potential of drawing more players to kill.. So ATM I'm for whatever CCP proposes as they have a full staff of professionals who's job it is to balance the game for all.. These changes nerf a certain playstyle and those it effects are naturally not going to like it.. Noone likes to have thier playstyle nerfed.. To me almost all the complaints are from people who are going to have to adjust their playstyle to the new changes.. So the replys are biased because they get a hit.. Also one thing to look at is the views on a thread.. Its unique views so it always shows the total number of players who have read a thread.. And if you do the math the people replying and viewing these threads represent less than 5% of the playerbase.. Hmmm.. Seems that the majority of players think these issues are not worth posting about.. So I assume that its the usual troll flaimbait responces to any change that negativly effets someone.. Your not seeing the bigger picture just the slice that involves you.. But hey it was just like this before RMR and all the complaints died as soon as they adapted.. Same will happen for kali but plz keep responding with your views whatever they may be..
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
Goca
Minmatar Steel Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 15:07:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 09/11/2006 11:03:15So ATM I'm for whatever CCP proposes as they have a full staff of professionals who's job it is to balance the game for all..
What do you not understand? if you balance everything you kill this game pure and simple.. They did NOT balance everything in RMR in fact they made alot of things overpowered, unbalanced and the playerbase grew in leaps and bounds, it's fun it's exciting.
Balancing has killed SO many games over the years, they became predictable, boring and the playerbase simply left.
That is the problem here, so many people think everything should be balanced and fair..
If that's what this game is to become I hope they screenshotted the 30,000+ players online because they may never see that again..
I is Goca |
Omatje
Minmatar Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.09 15:32:00 -
[78]
I think it will also benefit small scale engagements
It will however hurt those who are only after easy ganks/lonely targets rather then a real engagements.
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Almarez
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:30:00 -
[79]
I totally agree that this is a bandaid patch that is currently poorly implemented. The HP bonus itself isn't bad if you tweak the other parts that are affected by it. 1) Cap intensive ships like Amarr and Gallente need boost to cap requirements for guns (NOT mod or a bonus but a base change. I don't think its fair that these ships are required to use a rig slot or one of the ships bonuses to fix this while Caldari and Minmitar don't). 2) Amarr require access to another damage type, I don't care what anyone says about how good a Snipergeddon is or how good a tank an Apoc has, lasers plain suck. 3) Passive tanks need some nerfing. It is rediculous that a Raven can be set up to fire and tank well without a cap requirement and an Apoc needs cap to do both, I don't care how much more cap the Apoc has it is at a disadvantage. 4) At the present NOS range and amount only get bonus on certain ships (example = Curse) so maybe there should be a mod, possibly a rig (there may be one I haven't looked), that can affect this so that you can maybe get away with 2 NOS and a rig vs. 4 NOS. This would leave open slots for more guns. 5) I think trying to fix fleet warefare this way only hurts small scale battles even more which, honestly, I think are the best part of this game. Fleet battles are laggy and usually unorganized. That is what makes them not-so-fun at times. Introducing tactics and upgrading hardware will help fix this. Even with HP boost a concentrated fire from a fleet will still take out primary rather fast, I mean are an extra 1000, 2000, 3000, or even 5000 more HP (if they went that crazy) really going to make that much of a difference when 20-30 ships are shooting at you? 6) If implemented in this way I think many Amarr and possibly Gallente pilots will quit this game (I'm pretty sure I will along with my non-Amarr alt) and I think Eve itself will be hurt by this. Right now I think there is a nice split of people between the races, there will be a shift away from the Amarr and the Gallente if this is introduced. 7) Remember that this is still in the test phase. In the two+ years I have been playing CCP has never introduced anything this unwelcomed by so many players with such strong arguments (the stacking penalty doesn't count because that affected everyone). Let them try new ideas, that's what makes this game fun. If it does end up on tranquility then I think they will see a real Exodus, like the one the geniuses on Star Wars Galaxies saw.
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Stormhold
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:45:00 -
[80]
For me it'll be accountcancelladific.
HP increase itself isn't bad, but when it makes active tanking crap (I fly gallente, who has ships with armor repper bonuses \o/), nerfs weapons with cap use (I fly gallente with blasters, though I'm just training better drone skills \o/) and makes fights take ages and makes it easier to aggress and still be able to jump out etc before you die (wewt, most fun part of game nerfed \o/)
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Mr Ninjaface
Minmatar Shurekin INC
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Posted - 2006.11.10 20:53:00 -
[81]
Down with the HP increase. MY thoughts on Kali |
Segmentor
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:18:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Segmentor on 10/11/2006 21:18:42
Whos stupid idea was this ****? Ffs, i was so happy about Kali and all. Covert ops getting a boost, deimos getting fixed, sacrielege gets looked at, BC agillity gets revamped... Even the new ships, they were perfectly fitting to the pre-HP boost gameplay!
But everyting should ofc have a huge ass nerf to it, and if not to dev's favourite race, then to the quite opposite... Again...
Out with the HP boost, PLEASE... ---
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Hydrian Alante
The Loot Company
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:26:00 -
[83]
No I don¦t like it.
It¦s a can full of worms.
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Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus And your suggestions for getting players out of high sec is?
Lowsec is arguably more dangerous than 0.0. Make lowsec three to four times more profitable than it currently is.
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.10 21:56:00 -
[85]
I was originally looking forward to Kali, but then they announced the hitpoint boost. Having tested it, I can only say that it spells the utter end of my playstyle. I prefer solo and VERY small gang PvP, and fights will last far too long for that to be viable. Moreover, it really screws Minmatar due to their low base DPS.
My subscription is currently cancelled and set to run out at the end of November as a result.
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven R.I.P. Solo PvP R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Thanks, CCP. |
Cyrax
Devils Rejects
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Posted - 2006.11.10 22:12:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Zixxa Edited by: Zixxa on 08/11/2006 12:38:03 It is WORST CCP idea in the Eve history .
QFT
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Velsharoon
Gallente Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.10 23:28:00 -
[87]
This is for fleets, not for solo or small gangs. I play in small gangs.
I was happy with my combat. If this goes through I wont. It will mean more blobs. However I understand the issue with fleet combat.
Solution, do something about focused fire, not break the "lower end" of the game
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.11 10:12:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Velsharoon This is for fleets, not for solo or small gangs. I play in small gangs.
I was happy with my combat. If this goes through I wont. It will mean more blobs. However I understand the issue with fleet combat.
Solution, do something about focused fire, not break the "lower end" of the game
QF-F'ing-T!
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest R.I.P. Torp raven R.I.P. Solo PvP R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Thanks, CCP. |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.11.11 10:58:00 -
[89]
Someone said something about 20 minute fights 1 vs. 1, what ships were these? it seems a little strange to me as I find (looking through combat logs afterwards) that most BS's tend to last 30-45 seconds on TQ.
50% on top of that isn't *that* significant. ----------
- Office Linebacker -
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Domalais
Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.11 21:38:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Domalais on 11/11/2006 21:41:24 The HP boost is simply terrible. With the current state of SISI, CCP could simply remove hit points altogether and simply have a ship explode when it hits 0 cap. The result would be the same.
Problems with the hitpoint boost:
1. Logoff tactics are now 500x more viable. It will be virtually impossible for a small gang to destroy a target within the necessary 2 minutes. Destroying passive tanked targets within 15 minutes will also be difficult for small gangs.
2. Small ships are less viable against larger ships for cap reasons. Currently, the medium cap injector w/ 800 charges is the sole savior of small ships in PVP. With the extended length of PVP, this option is now worthless and nothing will save a cruiser or frigate from the wrath of heavy nosferatu.
3. Small ships are less viable against larger ships for damage output reasons. Battleships are going to last a significantly longer time against cruiser/frigate gangs (T1 or T2). Forget about killing battleships at gates with your cruiser gang, they'll make it to the gate for sure.
4. Guerilla warfare is less viable, for many reasons. Due to the longer lifespan of ships (especially battleships), your opponent has much (much) more time to bring in reinforcements. Also, you'll be consuming vastly more ammo, drones, cap charges (see #5), etc. per engagement. This will greatly increase the logistical difficulty of operating outside your own sovereign space.
5. Cap injectors are totally worthless, for many reasons. First, you'll never carry enough charges to complete a BS 1 v 1. Even if you did, you will recieve less average cap/second from your injector due to increased number of reloads. And if you do carry enough charges to last out a fight, you'll run out of ammo midway through for sure.
6. As a result of #5 and #2, above, cap is now the primary weakness of any and all ships. Thus, nos/neuts and especially those ships having bonuses to them or not weakened by fitting them are much, much more viable. (Curse, pilgrim, vexor, ishtar, domi, etc.)
7. As a result of #6, ships that require cap to fire are at a disadvantage. (amarr, gallente)
Conclusion: This change is the death of everything that PVP is on Tranquility right now. It will bring the advent of even greater blob warfare tactics. It will significantly increase the safety of pilots within their alliance's territory, and reduce/eliminate the ability of remote alliances or small entities to use guerilla tactics and small/fast gangs to attack the logistical, money-making, and other soft elements of hostile alliances.
The face of Kali PVP (should this change be implemented):
1. More gank tactics (which nobody likes) and larger blobs (which the server can't handle).
2. Alliances will be less willing and able to fight remote alliances. With the current state of regional NAPs, this will stagnate 0.0 PVP.
3. Stagnation of low-sec PVP due to harm to small gang abilities.
4. Emphasis on large-scale fleet combat.
5. Emphasis on larger, slower ships.
6. Increase in use of EW on smaller ships, especially dampeners and tracking disruptors, as these will be their only viable way to engage larger ships.
7. Vast increase in the use of logoff tactics during combat.
Originally by: Gabriel Karade Someone said something about 20 minute fights 1 vs. 1, what ships were these? it seems a little strange to me as I find (looking through combat logs afterwards) that most BS's tend to last 30-45 seconds on TQ.
50% on top of that isn't *that* significant.
BS combat can last that long. The problem is that 50% hitpoint boost does not = 50% longer combat. This occurs because the fundamental balance of power between modules has been changed (ruined). With the substantial increase in the usefulness of nos/neuts, more ships are running them. This decreases the dmg output of these ships with a realistic fitting.
50% HP increase + 50% dmg reduction = 250%+ longer combat.
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Paper Clips
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Posted - 2006.11.11 21:44:00 -
[91]
No... it has good intentions, but I think it's too simple of a step.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.12 01:45:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Krist Valentine on 12/11/2006 01:46:45 It's ruined solo PVP and that's all I did. Small guns are useless, small ships can't take bigships anymore. Part of EVE's charm - the fact that a new character could take an old character, is down the drain. I'm just praying that they take it out, before Kali's released. - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.11.12 02:08:00 -
[93]
I have read a lot about small gang pvp being ruined by the HP increase.
While I understand why people think this; I believe the tier 2 bc's are the answer. I have a real problem with the 15 man friggie blob having the firepower to take down a lone BS on the grounds that a $15m investment should not be able to (in 90% of cases) pwn a $100m investment in a bs.
The tier 2 bc's will become the new mobile gank force; fast, agile and packing a hell of a punch; bc gank squads will become the small ship of choice, with friggie and inty's relegated to fast escort, scouting and tackling.
A lone bs against a 5/6 man mixed fleet of inty's and bc's is going to die just as fast as before but represent a better balance.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.12 02:16:00 -
[94]
I disagree, I like the current PVP mechanics as they are. But everyone has their opinion.
I just don't like the idea of not being able to fly my Vexor with small hybrids, or not being able to go out in my Ishkur solo anymore. - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
Balian Bowmaker
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Posted - 2006.11.12 02:28:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Krist Valentine I disagree, I like the current PVP mechanics as they are. But everyone has their opinion.
I just don't like the idea of not being able to fly my Vexor with small hybrids, or not being able to go out in my Ishkur solo anymore.
My thoughts exactly. If it aint broke dont fix it jeez...
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.12 02:33:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Cyrax
Originally by: Zixxa Edited by: Zixxa on 08/11/2006 12:38:03 It is WORST CCP idea in the Eve history .
QFT
Agreed. ---------------------
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Lobo Noturno
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Posted - 2006.11.12 02:39:00 -
[97]
Since most people seems to think the HP changes are bad, I guess CCP is right on target. If no one complained, I would say the change was innefective. People tends to complain when things change, and It has little to do with the quality of the change.
I've always been feed up with the fact that a 100mil battleship would be pulverized by a small band of frigates, so the 50% bonus is bare minimum in my opinion. Sure, the dynamics will change, 1 on 1 battles will be longer and harder, small skirmishes will last a little bit longer, and a whole lot of established strategies and setups will need to be reviewed or scraped altogether. Which is great, since good PVPers will adapt fast, and cheap lowsec pirates will have a harder life. For fleets, the HP change is nearly irrelevant, but the other changes might help with the blob system(still, a lot to do on that front)
Only thing I consider needs balancing now is cap capacity, recharge and usage. Not because the HP itself, but longer battles require more cap, and a proof to that is the fact that NOS became suddenly essential for a pvp setup. Balance will be reached when a Hyperion, with 8 blasters, has a 50% success rate going against a raven or a maelstron.(considering the rohk usually is not setup for close range combat...) So if full gank has a change of working, even against NOS, we have enough cap...(another side effect for this balancing is that battles will become shorter than some reported 15 mins...)
Lobo
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.12 03:02:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Lobo Noturno Since most people seems to think the HP changes are bad, I guess CCP is right on target. If no one complained, I would say the change was innefective. People tends to complain when things change, and It has little to do with the quality of the change.
I've always been feed up with the fact that a 100mil battleship would be pulverized by a small band of frigates, so the 50% bonus is bare minimum in my opinion. Sure, the dynamics will change, 1 on 1 battles will be longer and harder, small skirmishes will last a little bit longer, and a whole lot of established strategies and setups will need to be reviewed or scraped altogether. Which is great, since good PVPers will adapt fast, and cheap lowsec pirates will have a harder life. For fleets, the HP change is nearly irrelevant, but the other changes might help with the blob system(still, a lot to do on that front)
Only thing I consider needs balancing now is cap capacity, recharge and usage. Not because the HP itself, but longer battles require more cap, and a proof to that is the fact that NOS became suddenly essential for a pvp setup. Balance will be reached when a Hyperion, with 8 blasters, has a 50% success rate going against a raven or a maelstron.(considering the rohk usually is not setup for close range combat...) So if full gank has a change of working, even against NOS, we have enough cap...(another side effect for this balancing is that battles will become shorter than some reported 15 mins...)
Lobo
1v1's won't be longer and harder. They'll be nonexistant and impossible. It'll render small PVP corps completely useless.
And you say that people complain at change whether it's good or bad or neither. This may be true, but in this case we're complaining at something which is most definitely bad. - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
Commander Spectre
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Posted - 2006.11.12 03:56:00 -
[99]
I think it totally sucks. I spent alot of time training t2 weapons and not only are they adding more hit points to ships...they are nerfing the t2 guns. What is the point of spending all that time training something just so it's rendered usless by the next patch?
When will the devs learn that change is not allways good? You just start to get used to playing the game one way and here comes a programer with a stupid idea to mess it all up.
If you are going to increase hp then you need to balance it out with more firepower, cap and ammo capacity which will basically negate the change so why even bother with it? Personally I'm getting pretty tired of all the changes. I think the time would be spent better getting what you allready have to work right. The font still sucks, dissconnects and crashes are still frequent, and the game takes up way too much CPU and has a crappy frame rate no matter what I do. (And yeah I tried all the fixes listed).
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tuikyuo
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Posted - 2006.11.12 06:41:00 -
[100]
So would people be happy if they increased cap aswell with it? Cause it just seems people are griping more about NOS then the extended battle time.
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BobGhengisKhan
Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.12 09:19:00 -
[101]
HP increase only leads to battles based completly on your cap. Increasing tactics and better gameplay? Anyone who beleives this is a fool.
HP boost can go to hell imo.
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DeadDuck
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.12 10:24:00 -
[102]
Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost
The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win.
The ship details regarding Damage output, Armour/Shield HP and their sustainability, enginnering skills and auxiliary setups will be as important as the DPS.
A pilot flying the ship and the way he flies it is alsow important. I have lost fights in singularity because of errors made during the fight.
Questions like:
How much DPS my setup makes ? Can my ship old the damage while fighting and producing a certain amout of damage ? Will my capacitor hold during the fight ? Should I use the rigs to increase the damage ? armour/shields ? cap ? velocity ? Should I go for a dual REP tank or plate ?
Have to be correctly answered, and even so, mainly because fights take longer you have to be very careffull and watch what the other pilot is doing and react before is to late. I lost some fights because I react to late not because of the setup but because of my decisions.
At the moment you have 10 secs to make all this ... or better you dont have the time.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.12 11:40:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Commander Spectre I think it totally sucks. I spent alot of time training t2 weapons and not only are they adding more hit points to ships...they are nerfing the t2 guns. What is the point of spending all that time training something just so it's rendered usless by the next patch?
When will the devs learn that change is not allways good? You just start to get used to playing the game one way and here comes a programer with a stupid idea to mess it all up.
If you are going to increase hp then you need to balance it out with more firepower, cap and ammo capacity which will basically negate the change so why even bother with it? Personally I'm getting pretty tired of all the changes. I think the time would be spent better getting what you allready have to work right. The font still sucks, dissconnects and crashes are still frequent, and the game takes up way too much CPU and has a crappy frame rate no matter what I do. (And yeah I tried all the fixes listed).
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it on the head there, sadly. - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
Aphotic Raven
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Posted - 2006.11.12 12:04:00 -
[104]
I see what the devs are trying to do... how they are trying to lengthen fights... but i inhabit pure blind, and while the larger 6 alliances are all best chums, i am not on their pen pals list, and i spend a lot of my eve time solo-ing or with 1 friend ganking them. When it takes twice as long to kill that Af or that ceptor that wandered too close... and their friends have time (usually its between 5 and 20 to 1....) to jump in and warp to them.... and this is why it will suck, because the real PVPers who have the balls to solo will get pwned by the masses... Getting around will be somewhat easier, since having all that extra armour/shield will make MWDing to gates easy.... or better yet warping to 0km (oh thats just ******* fantaaastic....) But combat will be that much harder, not due to ship changes but due to the fact that time is something i have to spend carefully lest the 20 man gank packs catch up to me...
I really dont think nerfing hit and run and encouraging large fleets to easily dominate areas and beat up on the smaller enemys is the way to go.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.12 12:10:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven I see what the devs are trying to do... how they are trying to lengthen fights... but i inhabit pure blind, and while the larger 6 alliances are all best chums, i am not on their pen pals list, and i spend a lot of my eve time solo-ing or with 1 friend ganking them. When it takes twice as long to kill that Af or that ceptor that wandered too close... and their friends have time (usually its between 5 and 20 to 1....) to jump in and warp to them.... and this is why it will suck, because the real PVPers who have the balls to solo will get pwned by the masses... Getting around will be somewhat easier, since having all that extra armour/shield will make MWDing to gates easy.... or better yet warping to 0km (oh thats just ******* fantaaastic....) But combat will be that much harder, not due to ship changes but due to the fact that time is something i have to spend carefully lest the 20 man gank packs catch up to me...
I really dont think nerfing hit and run and encouraging large fleets to easily dominate areas and beat up on the smaller enemys is the way to go.
agreed.
Because I said so...
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Aphotic Raven
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Posted - 2006.11.12 12:12:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Gragnor I have read a lot about small gang pvp being ruined by the HP increase.
While I understand why people think this; I believe the tier 2 bc's are the answer. I have a real problem with the 15 man friggie blob having the firepower to take down a lone BS on the grounds that a $15m investment should not be able to (in 90% of cases) pwn a $100m investment in a bs.
The tier 2 bc's will become the new mobile gank force; fast, agile and packing a hell of a punch; bc gank squads will become the small ship of choice, with friggie and inty's relegated to fast escort, scouting and tackling.
A lone bs against a 5/6 man mixed fleet of inty's and bc's is going to die just as fast as before but represent a better balance.
WTF is that BS doing?? a domi or anything carrying drones would eat them.... 15 PLAYERS should probably be able to take down 1 if they are smart, isk ignored.
Today my alliance won a suprising victory over a large group of t2 frigs with 2 battle cruisers, a cruiser and 1 interceptor, we lost no one and put a nice dent in the enemy =) Setups are the problem here... not the power of the ships... and with all that extra armour i think the real differences will be in favor of the large loner.... at least if hes smart enough to pack NOS, he will have more time to pick the weaker enemies, to change targets if neccesary and be more effective. The biggest difference will be in the gap between those who can make that 1600mm plate fit and those that had to fit the 800mm instead.... it might kill dual rep/all resist/damage mod deimos's off but i dont mind that.... On the other hand, it gives the lone gankee and the gankers time to call for help, it will extend small fleet battles but getting insta popped ina 80 V 90 fight shouldnt suprise people that much. So in the end i dont know how it will play out.... its all going towards those with lots and lots of friends around.. and against those who like to/are forced to solo.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.12 13:45:00 -
[107]
Having said all this, I find it hard to believe that CCP will implement this, and break the game as they have. Taking this out of the game will make me probably the happiest EVE player around, putting it in, from what I've seen so far, will just get me out of the game.
I somehow doubt that CCP are willing to risk over half their fanbase just so a bunch of ******* carebears can have yet another way to escape. - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
Domalais
Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.12 18:15:00 -
[108]
Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost
The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win.
The ship details regarding Damage output, Armour/Shield HP and their sustainability, enginnering skills and auxiliary setups will be as important as the DPS.
A pilot flying the ship and the way he flies it is alsow important. I have lost fights in singularity because of errors made during the fight.
Questions like:
How much DPS my setup makes ? Can my ship old the damage while fighting and producing a certain amout of damage ? Will my capacitor hold during the fight ? Should I use the rigs to increase the damage ? armour/shields ? cap ? velocity ? Should I go for a dual REP tank or plate ?
What you are discussing is a dream, not the reality of the hit point boost. Go on the test server and actually see what this does to combat before weighing in on it.
Longer combat would be good, I agree. But you can't just change hitpoints and get a good result, this kind of change requires of fundamental rebalance of all weapons.
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FalconHawk
Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.12 18:38:00 -
[109]
HP boost is great, too bad only 1 amarr ship has a armor hp bonus, wish it would be more. Navy Augoror with 3*1600mm tungsten is already over 35k armor, not bad for a small cruiser, would be even better with a full rack of slave implants.
btw i still cannot decide if this is sarcasm or not
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Gut Punch
Gallente The Revenant
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Posted - 2006.11.12 23:45:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Gut Punch on 12/11/2006 23:50:17
Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost
The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win.
If by balanced, you mean more cookie cutter, then yes. All this is going to do is make everyone have the same base setup. There already is the requirement for scramblers and stabs if you are in small group/one-vs-one. Just add Nosses, more cap rechargers, more Cap batteries to that list.
All this is going to do is force everyone in the same direction, or at least inhibit the diversity that CCP states the game was designed around AND what the players expect. Like someone said above, if everything becomes equal why play the game. The playerbase will simply disappear, as they have in every other MMO I've played - like SWG - when all you have to do is spam a couple of buttons.
Gut Punch The Revenant |
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Kelishnikov
Industrial Warlords United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.13 00:47:00 -
[111]
What really sets Eve apart from other games is the ability of the new pilot to pilot his ship well, with a smart setup, and take out a more experienced character. In Everquest, WoW, ect, ect, if 5 characters fight 6 characters of the same level, they will lose. Eve currently gives the slightly outnumbered group a chance to win with good tactics. The HP increase will completely kill that. Numerical superiority of BS's will be all that matters. I suppose if PvP becomes boring I could just start autopiloting a Maller with plates through hostile systems for fun.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.11.13 01:51:00 -
[112]
nope, It nerfs cormorants and stealth bombers to the point of uselessness. Not that stealth bombers were useful for anything but popping random haulers and tech I frigs anyway.
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Ashira Twilight
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Posted - 2006.11.13 03:52:00 -
[113]
All these posts saying things like "now you have to think about your setup" "you have to play smart" "smart" blah blah blah.
Using half or more of your highslots for nos = I win. Nearly any other module on a setup doesn't matterIt doesn't matter how many plates you have fitted. It doesn't matter that you have xxxxx more armor than the other guy, if you can't fire your guns or run your reper or even keep your hardeners running, you lose.
Prolonged fighting means more time to drain cap to nothing. More hitpoints means smaller ships will have a much harder time overcoming the difference in hp because the margin is that much greater, not to mention the rampant nos that shuts them down faster.
Customization, options, that's what I love about this game. This HUGE change makes so many different stragegies go out the window entirely. A change like this COULD be good, but there are a lot of other things that would need to be looked at beforehand. I mean hell, we still don't have a scrambler for 20km+...
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.11.13 08:33:00 -
[114]
Please, don't do it. Or if you must, give like 10-15% more HP, not more.
Please Tuxford? No HP boost. Yesterday I was in trouble killing 7 ships with Abso and Curse. With HP boost I cannot pwn so much anymore "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
PERVS \o/ |
john120
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Posted - 2006.11.13 09:29:00 -
[115]
i am against the hp increase, i've had to many fights, where i've finished killing my enemy just as the gank squad turns up to kill me, alph strick is now down the drain, it was hit badenough last hp increase. also ships will now be able to slowboat to the gate, long before we manage to kill them, eavon if there webed. if these changes go through, i shall stop pvping.
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.11.13 11:22:00 -
[116]
I like the HP boost
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Necroborg The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2006.11.13 11:25:00 -
[117]
I'm totally against HP increase.
Small fleets trying to fight larger ones no longer have the option of picking off those who break formation in the larger fleet. When you manage to pin them down it will just take too long and the blob will have a greater chance of catching you. This style of fighting was made very difficult after the last HP increase, the next one will kill it.
Eve is going to be even more about blobbing.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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Irimi Nage
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.13 12:18:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Irimi Nage on 13/11/2006 12:22:33 I'm a gallente pilot, and I'm considering training medium and large arts/ACs.
Lack of cap = craptastic.
Drones and Fighters need an equivilent HP boost too.
EDIT: Thought I'd add more and actually be constructive...
I like the idea, and the reasoning behind the change, I just think it needs some extra balancing - but that will come. I expect it will take around 4-6 months before things settle down and the balancing is finished. Until then, I reserve judgement.
I just hate that the gang changes just made my astarte primary even though I never use gang mods :( ---
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Raste
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.13 15:39:00 -
[119]
"Do you like the HP increase? "
Nope. Standard reason, it will do nothing for fleet fights and screw up small skirmishes.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.13 17:15:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Kuolematon Please, don't do it. Or if you must, give like 10-15% more HP, not more.
Please Tuxford? No HP boost. Yesterday I was in trouble killing 7 ships with Abso and Curse. With HP boost I cannot pwn so much anymore
QFT. I'm really serious about this, from what I've seen, it'll ruin everything I play for.
Don't get me hooked on a game that (for me) is fundamentally crippled :\ - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
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DeadDuck
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.13 18:07:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Domalais
Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/11/2006 10:24:14 I'm 100% on favour of HP boost
The HP boost will lead to far more balanced setups then the usual Higher DPS = I win.
The ship details regarding Damage output, Armour/Shield HP and their sustainability, enginnering skills and auxiliary setups will be as important as the DPS.
A pilot flying the ship and the way he flies it is alsow important. I have lost fights in singularity because of errors made during the fight.
Questions like:
How much DPS my setup makes ? Can my ship old the damage while fighting and producing a certain amout of damage ? Will my capacitor hold during the fight ? Should I use the rigs to increase the damage ? armour/shields ? cap ? velocity ? Should I go for a dual REP tank or plate ?
What you are discussing is a dream, not the reality of the hit point boost. Go on the test server and actually see what this does to combat before weighing in on it.
Longer combat would be good, I agree. But you can't just change hitpoints and get a good result, this kind of change requires of fundamental rebalance of all weapons.
Actually I've benn in test server for quite a while .. and I lost some combats because of errors during combat not because of setups.
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Father Weebles
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.13 18:12:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Irimi Nage Edited by: Irimi Nage on 13/11/2006 12:22:33 I'm a gallente pilot, and I'm considering training medium and large arts/ACs.
Lack of cap = craptastic.
Drones and Fighters need an equivilent HP boost too.
EDIT: Thought I'd add more and actually be constructive...
I like the idea, and the reasoning behind the change, I just think it needs some extra balancing - but that will come. I expect it will take around 4-6 months before things settle down and the balancing is finished. Until then, I reserve judgement.
I just hate that the gang changes just made my astarte primary even though I never use gang mods :(
yeah i dont want to spend 25 days training large hybrid to lvl 5 from lvl2 and run out of cap before the battle is half over.
ACs are looking better than ever.
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." |
Ocatto Krinks
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Posted - 2006.11.15 05:44:00 -
[123]
HP increase for the Loose!
First of all (in response to earlier posts)small ships should be able to take down a BS. Battleships historicly are always accompanied by escort cruiers to protect them from small faster menaces which for me it the whole idea of fleet combat. Also the Bismarck was crippled by a cheap dispoable biplane that led to its sinking. Your choice of vessel should be situational not "mine costs more than your's so therefore your not allowed to kill me". And to that pirate guy hmm i wounder if low sec would be more popular if you and your mates didnt gate camp every adventrous young player 5 Bazillion times over for the past few years...
Anyways back to the topic Why do we need the HP boost it adds nothing. All it accomplishes is that further exposes the weakness of lasers, wipes out the super strike tactic for mimitar (a bit biased here as thats my play style) and how in the hell can i carry enough ammo to feed my AC's to last 20 mins in a fight. Also (wether you like it or not) im a bit more intrested in a little realism in a game that i play. I know there are DPS, TTK uber 1337's out there who dont give a **** but really my idea of a war ship is not lets have no guns at all and slowly drone poeple to death while i go make a cup of tea.
My opinion (flame me if ya like i dont give a sod) No HP boost, give amarr some cap (cant remeber the last time i even saw an amarr ship), try (and i know its hard) not to nerf mimmitar further while you at it
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Krist Valentine
Amarr Freelancing Opportunists
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Posted - 2006.11.15 07:44:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Ocatto Krinks HP increase for the Loose!
First of all (in response to earlier posts)small ships should be able to take down a BS. Battleships historicly are always accompanied by escort cruiers to protect them from small faster menaces which for me it the whole idea of fleet combat. Also the Bismarck was crippled by a cheap dispoable biplane that led to its sinking. Your choice of vessel should be situational not "mine costs more than your's so therefore your not allowed to kill me". And to that pirate guy hmm i wounder if low sec would be more popular if you and your mates didnt gate camp every adventrous young player 5 Bazillion times over for the past few years...
Anyways back to the topic Why do we need the HP boost it adds nothing. All it accomplishes is that further exposes the weakness of lasers, wipes out the super strike tactic for mimitar (a bit biased here as thats my play style) and how in the hell can i carry enough ammo to feed my AC's to last 20 mins in a fight. Also (wether you like it or not) im a bit more intrested in a little realism in a game that i play. I know there are DPS, TTK uber 1337's out there who dont give a **** but really my idea of a war ship is not lets have no guns at all and slowly drone poeple to death while i go make a cup of tea.
My opinion (flame me if ya like i dont give a sod) No HP boost, give amarr some cap (cant remeber the last time i even saw an amarr ship), try (and i know its hard) not to nerf mimmitar further while you at it
I assume I'm that pirate guy? In which case, you're on totally the wrong wavelength. I hate gatecamping, I do belt piracy.
Still, apart from that I woulda said QFT. - - - - -
ISD r teh pwn
-- Oh yeah? Come back here and be a man, whoever modified that! I have my duelling glove! |
Iron Savior
Caldari Red's Swashbucklers Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.19 01:22:00 -
[125]
Just from test-server.
Cerberus + Drake needs 20 minutes to kill one Rokh (with a simpe tanking, nothing special)..... It`s so booring!!!
HP increase will kill EVE...
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Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.20 15:36:00 -
[126]
This topic must not be allowed to die.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:17:00 -
[127]
Edited by: voidvim on 20/11/2006 16:29:19
I personal like the hit point increase, becuase of stuff to come like sub system targeting ect. Changes like this often throw the balance off in the short term, but I hope the long term beefits will out weight the problems. We will not be able to tell of course until the other addions have been added into eve which may take a while. The question I asked my self is, do I want eve combat to advanced and gain depth or just refine what we have now, thus my opinion.
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Rafein
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:56:00 -
[128]
I'm loving it, but I'm devious, and planning ahead specifically for it.
It will fundamentlly change the way PvP works, and combat will be more of a chess game, which will of course make the Quake kiddies upset. But over the long run, I'd rather see ships that takes hours to mine up and build last more than a few seconds in combat.
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PartyVaN
Minmatar The Hand Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:50:00 -
[129]
I haven't read anything in this post but all I can say is that Im disappointed at some of the t2 hp increases (or lack thereof). I think my crow got 75hp boost in total :/
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Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:28:00 -
[130]
Originally by: PartyVaN I haven't read anything in this post but all I can say is that Im disappointed at some of the t2 hp increases (or lack thereof). I think my crow got 75hp boost in total :/
Your med extender rocket Crow got a hell of a lot more than that tbh...
In other news (IMO) increased hp for "longer fights 111!!!111" is the concept whose mention will own day make all devs (except it seems Tux who I hear opposes it) go Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
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Layene
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Posted - 2006.11.20 19:17:00 -
[131]
This sounds like a good idea but also like a can of balancing worms. Perhaps they should introduce this change gradually, say 20% hp first and see how that goes then more untill dying during jumplag against just a few ebil piwat scoom is pretty much history.
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Sun Tzuk
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Posted - 2006.11.20 20:59:00 -
[132]
I love the HP increase! When you spend hours, days, weeks, or even months saving for a ship... You don't want to lose it for anything. The HP boost is a big help with keeping your ships :)
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Dread Phantom
Caldari Project-Chaos
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Posted - 2006.11.20 21:14:00 -
[133]
Hate It, undecided whether ill stick around after kali
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Kristoffer
Amarr Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2006.11.21 01:04:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Dread Phantom Hate It, undecided whether ill stick around after kali
Same.
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nexvis
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Posted - 2006.11.21 01:24:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Ithildin Yes. I like it. It's a small step in the right direction.
If your idea of the right direction is forcing people to blob, sure, it's great.
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nexvis
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Posted - 2006.11.21 01:25:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Sun Tzuk I love the HP increase! When you spend hours, days, weeks, or even months saving for a ship... You don't want to lose it for anything. The HP boost is a big help with keeping your ships :)
Not really, you're just going to find yourself attacked by larger gangs to offset your HP increase, and then you'll be right back here whining about blobbing.
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Almarez
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Posted - 2006.11.21 05:41:00 -
[137]
I have said it before and I'll say it again. A hit point boost will result in two things, the dropping of many Amarr and Gallente accounts and the shifting of many Amarr and Gallente accounts to the non-cap-intensive races, mainly Caldari. So you will have a bunch of Raven pilots flying around...boy that will be fun. Seriously, Amarr ships are already at a disadvantage with the two damage types, add more HP that they have to chew through with just those two types and you can forget about how strong the Apoc tank is because it won't be able to deal out damage. I mean doesn't anyone else find the Raven totally rediculous? Can tank and shoot without any cap at all. Hell, doesn't even need to lock onto a target if it is carrying FOF missles. The only plus side for an Apoc is that if you had T2 Tachs (with T2 crystals) you could rip through shields and then hopefully take them down before your cap ran out or you got blown up because you have to tank for all four damage types cause a Raven can dish them all out (again, even if they aren't locked on). I have an entry to this topic earlier on the other things that should be implemented with the HP bonus to even make it viable. Read it and let me know what you think.
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Zacheria Malfor
Gallente FightClub TQ
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Posted - 2006.11.21 07:54:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Zacheria Malfor on 21/11/2006 07:56:47
Originally by: Kristoffer
Originally by: Dread Phantom Hate It, undecided whether ill stick around after kali
Same.
Hey Kris, and come Kali i can see quite a few of the older players leaving.
At the moment I am on the fence, I have some really good friends in this game who I would miss interacting with, however, if the HP boost goes through I doubt I will have the time to pvp simply due to the ridiculous length of time it takes to kill an opponent.
Edit: Also due to the increased fight time there is simply no 'rush' in PvP in Kali. Alot of players will understand what i mean by 'rush' admitedly I only get the rush every now and then when faced with a particularly challenging fight.
Do not fear the reaper, for death is the only certainty in life. |
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