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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jordan Kandou Worley
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:01:18 -
[1] - Quote
I always assumed that suicide gankers didn't want items too large, as it would just be a waste of time since they can't scoop it up without a industrial around to move it.
Until I was ganked for capital sized modules, 16,000m3
So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks? |
Pius Pareka
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:04:18 -
[2] - Quote
Bragging value of the killmail. |
Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:06:01 -
[3] - Quote
What makes you think they can't scoop it? Neutral hauler alt ftw.
Besides, tears are better then loot. And popping capital mods is always fun.
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
49791
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:13:40 -
[4] - Quote
be there, be dead |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3439
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:20:05 -
[5] - Quote
Jordan Kandou Worley wrote: So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks?
An easy target.
If you're carrying more ISK in potential drops than it takes to gank you, you're a target.
If you're afk/unaware/asleep at the wheel you're a target.
If it'd be fun to gank you and people want tears/lulz, you're a target. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1777
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:23:11 -
[6] - Quote
Fun, tears and profit. The order might be wrong... |
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
402300
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:30:25 -
[7] - Quote
People who complain about ganking on the forums.
-k8
My Fanclub
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Strawberry Mooses
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.05.07 18:35:42 -
[8] - Quote
Criteria: Target must be a player of "EVE Online" and in a internet spaceship. Everything else depends on the ganker(s). Common sense will make you safer, but never 100% "safe". Working as intended. |
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CCP Bartender
C C P C C P Alliance
7
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:00:14 -
[9] - Quote
Most gankers will have alts in industrials to scoop the loot.
For professionals, the criteria is cost of ships they have to suicide to kill you vs value of your loot. Career gankers only attack targets with a loot value greater than 2x the value of the ships they need to sacrifice, because the loot fairy has a 50% chance to drop, so on average they'll do better than break even if they use the >2x metric.
I went and looked up some obelisk losses on zkillboard, looks like it takes about 10 talos' to kill one. Each talos seems to be worth about 100mil, so 10 of them is 1bil, so cost effective gankers will be looking for freighters with more than 2bil in the cargo, and sure enough, all the ganks I saw on zkillboard that don't involve plastic wrap are more than 2bil
Not sure what the number is like for normal industrials, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was around the 30mil mark (~3 t2 fit catalysts). |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
992
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:01:03 -
[10] - Quote
Jordan Kandou Worley wrote:So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks? For me, the first criteria is whether you have a permit or not.
You don't seem to have a permit... |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5419
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
You have their stuff. It may be in your hold, but it's their stuff.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Leoric Firesword
Rolling Static Gone Critical
126
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Posted - 2015.05.07 19:29:19 -
[12] - Quote
I've always looked at it this way. If you're in space you're a target.
I've had people suicide gank my noob ships before, with absolutely nothing in the hold. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6627
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Posted - 2015.05.07 20:21:31 -
[13] - Quote
The criteria, from the funding source, is interdiction of highsec commerce in general to boost the profits of other parties that never get ganked.
(But the perfectly legit Eve-ish motive is draped in "greifing" and "grrrr highsec" to cover that fact so to make this matter toxic and "un-game like". Can't have real level headed PVPers take interest in countering the highsec ganking or worse, role players shouting "The Ice must flow!" in local)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
11
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Posted - 2015.05.07 20:52:28 -
[14] - Quote
Some tips to avoid suicide ganking:
- Never AFK autopilot
- Never haul on Sundays or other high population times. Look at a server population graph and haul when the cost is lowest
- Avoid high population systems if possible
- Obey maximum cargo value rules of thumb - avoid more than 2bil in a freighter, a few hundred mil in a T2 indy, etc.
- Don't add low volume high value items in your freighter along with capital components. Taking these separately in an interceptor with short align time will be safer.
And of course the most foolproof of them all, use courier missions with high collateral. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
56
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Posted - 2015.05.07 20:57:29 -
[15] - Quote
Jordan Kandou Worley wrote:So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks?
Fun... |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
56
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Posted - 2015.05.07 20:57:55 -
[16] - Quote
double post mistake. |
2Sonas1Cup
113
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:26:49 -
[17] - Quote
Run incursions for a couple weeks All of a sudden realize you have 50 billion in your wallet And nothing to do...
this story continues tomorrow |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1321
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:41:31 -
[18] - Quote
We'll be aware suicide tankers will go after small ships too. If the ship is worth 100 times more than what was used being ganked, it's a target also.
Let's say you have an astero with a probe launcher. People will come after it with a cheap 500k destroyer for the 60 million kill mail and whatever dropped out of it.
Same applies to cruisers if they happen to scan good mods on it. Some are just prohibitively difficult to kill though (autopilot a brick prophecy, yea they probably won't bother much).
So people do suicide gank more than freighters. Just be conscious of that.
Yaay!!!!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2873
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Posted - 2015.05.07 21:56:50 -
[19] - Quote
Jordan Kandou Worley wrote:I always assumed that suicide gankers didn't want items too large, as it would just be a waste of time since they can't scoop it up without a industrial around to move it.
Until I was ganked for capital sized modules, 16,000m3
So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks?
I have to say...I'm impressed. Instead of complaining and whining, you came and asked a good question...which by the sounds of of it you'll use the answer to try and avoid being ganked in the future.
Basically, they'll go for high value cargo. Space is not usually an issue as they'll just bring in a ship(s) big enough to scoop the loot. They also like it if you are autopiloting as it will give them a bit more time to set up a bumping ship...usually on the out gate of the system they are going to gank you in, but not always. Now that freighters can fit modules they may even do a ship scan...if they can't get enough DPS because you've fit reinforced bulkheads that might save you....but you'd be foolish to bet on it.
A scout. A scout with webs. Are probably your two best options. If you can squeeze your cargo into a transport ship, even better. Limiting the value of your cargo can help, but sometimes the gankers just want a gank. Maybe its been a slow night and a bunch of catalysts are not that much isk, so...there is always the gank for ****s and giggles.
And +1 for asking a good question.
Oh, and they might go the ransom route. Figuring your Obelisk is work 1.2-1.3 billion, plus say...500 million in cargo they might figure you'll pony up some isk not to let it get destroyed.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Solecist Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
23906
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:02:13 -
[20] - Quote
I fully oppose throwing everyone into the greed-bucket.
Especially me.
I have 99 reasons to gank ... ... but money ain't one.
S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5065
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:20:34 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Bartender wrote:Most gankers will have alts in industrials to scoop the loot. For professionals, the criteria is cost of ships they have to suicide to kill you vs value of your loot. Career gankers only attack targets with a loot value greater than 2x the value of the ships they need to sacrifice, because the loot fairy has a 50% chance to drop, so on average they'll do better than break even if they use the >2x metric. I went and looked up some obelisk losses on zkillboard, looks like it takes about 10 talos' to kill one. Each talos seems to be worth about 100mil, so 10 of them is 1bil, so cost effective gankers will be looking for freighters with more than 2bil in the cargo, and sure enough, all the ganks I saw on zkillboard that don't involve plastic wrap are more than 2bil Not sure what the number is like for normal industrials, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was around the 30mil mark (~3 t2 fit catalysts).
This is one motive, although you are wrong about the exact formula.
Most people carrying out organised for-profit ganks will factor in 15m for security tags (on each and every ship being used) and ISK to pay the gankers (30-40m per 15min GCC is common), but you can also usually salvage half of your Talos's fitted modules.
If ganking with Taloses as a for-profit event, expect 120m per Talos to be the gankers' costs, so 240m per Talos.
If ganking with Vexors (the best ship for for-profit ganking; they cost 18m after getting half your modules back), expect the gankers' costs to be of the order 60m per Vexor, so 120m in loot is needed to justify it.
There are other motives, however.
Burning stuff to the ground is *fun*. Burning freighters is even more fun.
Finally there is definitely profit to be made from chaos. Even though I outsource all my hauling and have to pay three times as much now as I did before my alliance started hitting freighters en masse, I now make *considerably* more on regional arbitrage trading than I used to. The removal of almost all autopiloted freighters from the main highsec trade routes has dramatically increased regional price discrepancies.
As an example I recently bought 3.5b worth of the components that go into building Gallente T2 ships in Jita and had them moved to Dodixie and put them on the market. They sold for 4.4b - markups like this simply did not exist 12 months ago on such high turnover items.
I may or may not also trade in mining equipment, ganking equipment and implants...
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6628
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:29:17 -
[22] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:We'll be aware suicide tankers will go after small ships too. If the ship is worth 100 times more than what was used being ganked, it's a target also.
Let's say you have an astero with a probe launcher. People will come after it with a cheap 500k destroyer for the 60 million kill mail and whatever dropped out of it.
Same applies to cruisers if they happen to scan good mods on it. Some are just prohibitively difficult to kill though (autopilot a brick prophecy, yea they probably won't bother much).
So people do suicide gank more than freighters. Just be conscious of that.
SB-equipped Mallers at 10KM from a gate on a warp-in vector for a ship on AP is a good example. They are waiting for any AP capsule to gank in the hope it's a "crystal egg".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2876
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:44:23 -
[23] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:We'll be aware suicide tankers will go after small ships too. If the ship is worth 100 times more than what was used being ganked, it's a target also.
Let's say you have an astero with a probe launcher. People will come after it with a cheap 500k destroyer for the 60 million kill mail and whatever dropped out of it.
Same applies to cruisers if they happen to scan good mods on it. Some are just prohibitively difficult to kill though (autopilot a brick prophecy, yea they probably won't bother much).
So people do suicide gank more than freighters. Just be conscious of that. SB-equipped Mallers at 10KM from a gate on a warp-in vector for a ship on AP is a good example. They are waiting for any AP capsule to gank in the hope it's a "crystal egg".
Since I rarely have implants in let alone expensive implants and with the removal of clone costs...the clone taxi would be appreciated. :P
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
299
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Posted - 2015.05.08 03:15:03 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Bartender wrote:Most gankers will have alts in industrials to scoop the loot. For professionals, the criteria is cost of ships they have to suicide to kill you vs value of your loot. Career gankers only attack targets with a loot value greater than 2x the value of the ships they need to sacrifice, because the loot fairy has a 50% chance to drop, so on average they'll do better than break even if they use the >2x metric. I went and looked up some obelisk losses on zkillboard, looks like it takes about 10 talos' to kill one. Each talos seems to be worth about 100mil, so 10 of them is 1bil, so cost effective gankers will be looking for freighters with more than 2bil in the cargo, and sure enough, all the ganks I saw on zkillboard that don't involve plastic wrap are more than 2bil Not sure what the number is like for normal industrials, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was around the 30mil mark (~3 t2 fit catalysts).
This man is a professional.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1035
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Posted - 2015.05.08 07:21:25 -
[25] - Quote
It's not about the cargo, it's about the law!
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
98
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Posted - 2015.05.08 11:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:It's not about the cargo, it's about the law!
Pfft, profits is what it's all about. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2015.05.08 11:50:35 -
[27] - Quote
What's kinda funny to me is that if people really want CCP to look at rebalancing the viability of suicide ganks, more people need to suicide gank. While all the pro-ganker sorts and CCP themselves say that the risk:reward is fine and ganking is just a part of the cold, hard space of New Eden, I bet if there were maybe only 5x as many ganks happening, they would end up tweaking things to make ganking more difficult or less rewarding or both.
Suicide ganking IS fun... for some players. I think that a lot more players would enjoy it if they gave it a whirl, too.
I have a few accounts that I set up to be a solo, high-sec industrial crew. Then I got the idea that ganking might be something fun to dabble with, and it turned out to be pretty fun. For me, it's fun organizing a number of my own accounts to pull off ganks with minimal skillpoints and isk invested, and seeing the damage I can cause by scouting out an easy target and executing the kill correctly. I don't work too quickly though, and I have to pick targets extra carefully since trying to juggling a number of accounts with one click per action against the response time of concord (or the chance of my quarry getting spooked) is a bit frantic compared to the well-organized gank squads who are using more powerful fits and ships and playing fewer accounts (even 1, maybe/probably) so they can focus on better execution and methods that would be beyond my ability (ganking on gates, monitoring undock points at busy stations, etc).
There are plenty of posts that cover this, but basically gankers are looking for people who do not do most (or even some) of the following: play in low/null/wh, scout out a good system/route to use in the first place, set standings, watch local, watch dscan, play without much AFK, fly tough ships, fly cheap ships, use strong tanks, use ECM, talk ****, or a number of other things that otherwise contribute to making it more difficult and/or less rewarding to gank. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1321
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Posted - 2015.05.08 11:55:53 -
[28] - Quote
Well with the expected future changes to eve (new structures, decentralizing of Delaware (aka Jita).. suicide gankers may start finding themselves with less targets.
This is still a year or two out though, and nobody knows whats going on yet.
Yaay!!!!
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
312
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Posted - 2015.05.08 12:13:23 -
[29] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Well with the expected future changes to eve (new structures, decentralizing of Delaware (aka Jita)..
Oh yeah, baby, I'll be offering 0.11% Broker fees on my station. In Jita around the sun.
Just kidding, it's going to be in New Caldari!
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Otso Bakarti
Aliastra Gallente Federation
182
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Posted - 2015.05.08 14:04:30 -
[30] - Quote
it's the sort of passtime akin to watching them unload produce at the Publix.
I survived Win95
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