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What do suicide gankers look for?

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Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 190	Posted - 2015.05.12 01:11:19 - [61] - Quote Freya Sertan wrote: Aww. Where did the ganker touch you? Point it out on this doll. I'd rather know where miner touched you. Nobody succumbs to ganking without a bleeding ego and failing self-esteem, like you know, realizing you caught the common stupid or something. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4547	Posted - 2015.05.12 07:29:44 - [62] - Quote I removed a reply (and those posts quoting it) to an earlier removed post. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Lost Greybeard Drunken Yordles 599	Posted - 2015.05.12 08:24:34 - [63] - Quote I've had industrials popped just carting around various crap I was too lazy to convert to isk and re-buy at the other end, in a ship significantly more expensive than the loot I ended up dropping. It's entirely possible that the person ganking you isn't checking your cargo and is just gambling on its value if you're in a ship with a reasonably fast warp-time and a long manifest that they need to pin down quickly.
Shuckstar Taking Inc Swine Aviation Labs 298	Posted - 2015.05.12 08:48:40 - [64] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Fun, tears and profit. The order might be wrong... This but in a different order for me :P CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 347	Posted - 2015.05.12 09:54:14 - [65] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Jordan Kandou Worley wrote: I always assumed that suicide gankers didn't want items too large, as it would just be a waste of time since they can't scoop it up without a industrial around to move it. Until I was ganked for capital sized modules, 16,000m3 So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks? You see, they don't just do it because they can, they do it because they can't do anything else. Ganking in eve currently is one of the occupations with "negative entry barrier". With usual entry barrier to other occupations, you need to climb some kind of obstacle, like 4-6 years worth of character training for combat PvP, but there are also occupations to which you fall like it's a trap or something (a good real life example would be HR occupation), just because you weren't able to pass the entry barrier for other ones, or got trapped by ridiculous ease of the said occupation against what it offers. Snip Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. Please don't equate gankers with HR "professionals." They are scum but gankers have feelings too!
Baron Spank Lords of Fail 48	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:38:56 - [66] - Quote If you want to be safe. Just double wrap your stuff. Create a courier contract to one of your alt then, recontract the contract to your hauler. Ganking cost ISK to the gankers. They generally don't take the risk if they can't see what they could get. With this technique there is a big chance that everything explodes. Ganking is generally a business, so it's rare that they kill you if they scan plastic wrap, but you are not 100% safe, some can try anyway just to see what is inside.
TheSmokingHertog TALIBAN EXPRESS 311	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:54:04 - [67] - Quote CCP Bartender wrote: Not sure what the number is like for normal industrials, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was around the 30mil mark (~3 t2 fit catalysts). With a low number of stacks, you will be safe with about a 100 mill est in cargo. "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24074	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:25:57 - [68] - Quote Freckled redheads, tbh. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 191	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:59:24 - [69] - Quote Baron Spank wrote: If you want to be safe. Just double wrap your stuff. Create a courier contract to one of your alt then, recontract the contract to your hauler. Ganking cost ISK to the gankers. They generally don't take the risk if they can't see what they could get. With this technique there is a big chance that everything explodes. Ganking is generally a business, so it's rare that they kill you if they scan plastic wrap, but you are not 100% safe, some can try anyway just to see what is inside. If you want to be safe, just don't haul. Double wrapping will be ganked. Empty industrial will be ganked. Marauders will be ganked. Because it's free. Ganking does not cost ISK to the gankers as long as catalyst remains free. The first freighter ganked with laughably little initial investment will pay a month worth of free catalysts. You can gank anything by risking nothing by just being in a free catalyst. With this technique there is indeed a better chance that everything explodes, including your ship. Ganking is one of the literally prehistoric ways to fix a painfully shrunken self-esteem - picking on decent people and claiming you're "better" because you were enough of a jerk to peck them and weren't pecked back (apparently by being too filthy to be pecked, but you'd rather die than admit it). Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Paranoid Loyd 5087	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:17:06 - [70] - Quote Lost Greybeard wrote: I've had industrials popped just carting around various crap I was too lazy to convert to isk and re-buy at the other end, in a ship significantly more expensive than the loot I ended up dropping. It's entirely possible that the person ganking you isn't checking your cargo and is just gambling on its value if you're in a ship with a reasonably fast warp-time and a long manifest that they need to pin down quickly. I find your comments comical considering your most recent loss. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24074	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:20:52 - [71] - Quote Tbh this topic is silly considering the miniscule amount of ganking that happens compared to literally every thing else combat related. The TLDR is that those who talk against it take it personally. Thanks Indah for letting us know that suicide ganking isn't an issue at all. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 365	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:51:28 - [72] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Lost Greybeard wrote: I've had industrials popped just carting around various crap I was too lazy to convert to isk and re-buy at the other end, in a ship significantly more expensive than the loot I ended up dropping. It's entirely possible that the person ganking you isn't checking your cargo and is just gambling on its value if you're in a ship with a reasonably fast warp-time and a long manifest that they need to pin down quickly. I find your comments comical considering your most recent loss. That was a very nice 3166.6% return on investment. Railguns can't melt Medium Shield Extenders Dumping low-value, high-volume Mexallon & Pyerite in the same haul with high-value, low-volume Skillbooks and modules is Gÿ» You got rekt on that Mammoth however, son. The valuations came from Genos 3/4. =ƒÉë ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Paranoid Loyd 5090	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:09:21 - [73] - Quote GankYou wrote: You got rekt on that Mammoth however, son. The valuations came from Genos 3/4. =ƒÉë Hardly classify that as rekt, made 100% on the Geno and the Yacht BPC dropped. The digital rocket booster BPC will become valuable when someone is foolish enough to meander by with the components to build it. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24114	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:15:40 - [74] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: GankYou wrote: You got rekt on that Mammoth however, son. The valuations came from Genos 3/4. =ƒÉë Hardly classify that as rekt, made 100% on the Geno and the Yacht BPC dropped. The digital rocket booster BPC will become valuable when someone is foolish enough to meander by with the components to build it. I have no idea how you do this. It's nerve wreckingly boring and every GCC makes me want to hit my screen. The GCC especially is psychoterror. S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
Paranoid Loyd 5090	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:28:06 - [75] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: I have no idea how you do this. It's nerve wreckingly boring and every GCC makes me want to hit my screen. The GCC especially is psychoterror. Boredom mitigation: Chat channels, answer mails, organize loot, sell loot, build more gank ships, 4th account (been doing some low sec hunting, learning about invention and fine tuning manufacturing strategies), some sort of strategy game running in the background, RL work. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24122	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:33:24 - [76] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Solecist Project wrote: I have no idea how you do this. It's nerve wreckingly boring and every GCC makes me want to hit my screen. The GCC especially is psychoterror. Boredom mitigation: Chat channels, answer mails, organize loot, sell loot, build more gank ships, 4th account, some sort of strategy game running in the background, RL work. Tried that. Then I stop scanning. I tried with the outlaw char in space. Bouncing and scanning. While that really improved the fun of it, it was nearly impossible to catch anything. I even switched location now, as you might have noticed ... ... but it only made it worse, tbh. Now some local is annoying me with a private killright. Killing things for ISK ... no wonder I never cared. -.- S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 369	Posted - 2015.05.12 16:54:25 - [77] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: GankYou wrote: You got rekt on that Mammoth however, son. The valuations came from Genos 3/4. =ƒÉë Hardly classify that as rekt, made 100% on the Geno and the Yacht BPC dropped. The digital rocket booster BPC will become valuable when someone is foolish enough to meander by with the components to build it. I'll take the Yacht BPC off your hands for 55 miljoon precious ISKs. ...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+ Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
Solecist Project Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD 24152	Posted - 2015.05.12 17:19:11 - [78] - Quote GankYou wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: GankYou wrote: You got rekt on that Mammoth however, son. The valuations came from Genos 3/4. =ƒÉë Hardly classify that as rekt, made 100% on the Geno and the Yacht BPC dropped. The digital rocket booster BPC will become valuable when someone is foolish enough to meander by with the components to build it. I'll take the Yacht BPC off your hands for 55 miljoon precious ISKs. Will you pass me today in a shuttle again? ^_^ S.O.L. GANKING4GOOD Abolish Rookiecorps.
Nyalnara AdAstra. Beach Club 4	Posted - 2015.05.12 17:42:11 - [79] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Then, N+1 arty trasher became the new meta. French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
Paranoid Loyd 5091	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:04:16 - [80] - Quote GankYou wrote: I'll take the Yacht BPC off your hands for 55 miljoon precious ISKs. Nope. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2015.05.12 18:29:48 - [81] - Quote CCP Bartender wrote: Most gankers will have alts in industrials to scoop the loot. For professionals, the criteria is cost of ships they have to suicide to kill you vs value of your loot. Career gankers only attack targets with a loot value greater than 2x the value of the ships they need to sacrifice, because the loot fairy has a 50% chance to drop, so on average they'll do better than break even if they use the >2x metric. I went and looked up some obelisk losses on zkillboard, looks like it takes about 10 talos' to kill one. Each talos seems to be worth about 100mil, so 10 of them is 1bil, so cost effective gankers will be looking for freighters with more than 2bil in the cargo, and sure enough, all the ganks I saw on zkillboard that don't involve plastic wrap are more than 2bil Not sure what the number is like for normal industrials, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was around the 30mil mark (~3 t2 fit catalysts). My gank talos cost me about 80m fully fitted and I don't have the industrial power behind me that the organized groups like code do. Gankers look for tears, isk, a boredom breaker and more. THe reasons and motivations can vary as much as those doing the ganking.
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 337	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:46:46 - [82] - Quote Jordan Kandou Worley wrote: So.... what's the criteria for suicide ganks? "Two tears in a m'fuckin' bucket....**** it."
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 191	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:29:09 - [83] - Quote Nyalnara wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Then, N+1 arty trasher became the new meta. Still a step in the right direction as it sufficiently (about 35-40% if I didn't fail me mathz) increases the N requirement for that case. Then we can think of measures like decreasing navy reaction time to multiple negative sec pilots on grid. The criteria of a suicide gank is failing in something trivial recently and getting a bleeder on the ego, which needs fixing by picking on random people, for the ganker to assure himself he isn't the lowest eve player he actually is (because hey, he got a kill, who cares if it's his own 1 month old alt in failfit Nereus, he got a kill - means he just became "better", and becoming "better" is all that matters.) Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23758	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:38:29 - [84] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Nyalnara wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Then, N+1 arty trasher became the new meta. Still a step in the right direction as it sufficiently (about 35-40% if I didn't fail me mathz) increases the N requirement for that case. Then we can think of measures like decreasing navy reaction time to multiple negative sec pilots on grid. The criteria of a suicide gank is failing in something trivial recently and getting a bleeder on the ego, which needs fixing by picking on random people, for the ganker to assure himself he isn't the lowest eve player he actually is (because hey, he got a kill, who cares if it's his own 1 month old alt in failfit Nereus, he got a kill - means he just became "better", and becoming "better" is all that matters.) More like the start of a process where Thrashers become the favoured tool for ganking and people like you call for them to be nerfed too, adinfinitum. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 337	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:48:14 - [85] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Nyalnara wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Then, N+1 arty trasher became the new meta. Still a step in the right direction as it sufficiently (about 35-40% if I didn't fail me mathz) increases the N requirement for that case. Then we can think of measures like decreasing navy reaction time to multiple negative sec pilots on grid. The criteria of a suicide gank is failing in something trivial recently and getting a bleeder on the ego, which needs fixing by picking on random people, for the ganker to assure himself he isn't the lowest eve player he actually is (because hey, he got a kill, who cares if it's his own 1 month old alt in failfit Nereus, he got a kill - means he just became "better", and becoming "better" is all that matters.) You really don't get EvE. I for one has never used an alt, but when I do, I wear no pants.
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 192	Posted - 2015.05.12 22:16:11 - [86] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Nyalnara wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Then, N+1 arty trasher became the new meta. Still a step in the right direction as it sufficiently (about 35-40% if I didn't fail me mathz) increases the N requirement for that case. Then we can think of measures like decreasing navy reaction time to multiple negative sec pilots on grid. The criteria of a suicide gank is failing in something trivial recently and getting a bleeder on the ego, which needs fixing by picking on random people, for the ganker to assure himself he isn't the lowest eve player he actually is (because hey, he got a kill, who cares if it's his own 1 month old alt in failfit Nereus, he got a kill - means he just became "better", and becoming "better" is all that matters.) More like the start of a process where Thrashers become the favoured tool for ganking and people like you call for them to be nerfed too, adinfinitum. I called ganking to be nerfed, not " thrashers too" or catalysts. It needs a nerf because it's too free and too easy - eve must be eve to everyone and atm there is an exception, which all the horrible people gladly jumped. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 337	Posted - 2015.05.13 01:34:28 - [87] - Quote Basil Pupkin wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Nyalnara wrote: Basil Pupkin wrote: Once again, I point out that there are 2 problems with ganking - it's too free and it's too easy. I will have nothing against it if it gets a cost and some skill requirement. The easiest way to do this as I see it is a simple measure - reduce CONCORD reaction time to multiple offenses on the same grid. Won't affect alpha ganks, will not do much to talos gank due to its limited numbers, but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank, and bring some actual skill requirements to otherwise skill-free "occupation". Then, N+1 arty trasher became the new meta. Still a step in the right direction as it sufficiently (about 35-40% if I didn't fail me mathz) increases the N requirement for that case. Then we can think of measures like decreasing navy reaction time to multiple negative sec pilots on grid. The criteria of a suicide gank is failing in something trivial recently and getting a bleeder on the ego, which needs fixing by picking on random people, for the ganker to assure himself he isn't the lowest eve player he actually is (because hey, he got a kill, who cares if it's his own 1 month old alt in failfit Nereus, he got a kill - means he just became "better", and becoming "better" is all that matters.) More like the start of a process where Thrashers become the favoured tool for ganking and people like you call for them to be nerfed too, adinfinitum. I called ganking to be nerfed, not " thrashers too" or catalysts. It needs a nerf because it's too free and too easy - eve must be eve to everyone and atm there is an exception, which all the horrible people gladly jumped. So is making isk, so let's nerf your game too. fair? Sounds good, let's do this.
Basil Pupkin Why So Platypus 193	Posted - 2015.05.13 03:15:55 - [88] - Quote Baaldor wrote: So is making isk, so let's nerf your game too. fair? Sounds good, let's do this. While I said it with a meaning that wanking game needs to be balanced with other games in terms of effort (currently minimal), risk (currently none), and reward (currently infinite), rather than blindly nerfed, I will not go into this discussion with an obvious troll. Ok, let's nerf my game too. I'll still be crafty and wealthy in comparison, but the very second we introduce skill component to ganking, CODE will failcascade, and future gankers would be worthy of respect at least. So fine, nerf ganking together with my game, whatever you presume it is. Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy. If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Aza Ebanu Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon 35	Posted - 2015.05.13 04:14:25 - [89] - Quote Problem with ganking is the same it has always been: no reward for someone to get revenge. A game that tries so hard to appeal to the emotions and, feelings of players and reject the sweet nectar that is revenge, is just stupidity. It is surprising EVE has made it this far.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1039	Posted - 2015.05.13 05:47:23 - [90] - Quote Only one last nerfGäó and carebears will be free the Code ALWAYS wins

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