EVE Search - Warp to 0 - it's coming, no doubt about it

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Warp to 0 - it's coming, no doubt about it

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Fortior STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:19:00 - [1] Quote: Razor: Tell me about Warp to 0 km. Magnus: It's coming. We will remove any bookmark you personally have that is within 40 km of a celestial object, because you no longer need them. Bookmarks are a major problem, the are the cause of a lot of the lag that you experience. There is an incredible amount of bookmark copying taking place in the game, and the stress it puts on the database is enormous. It's more stressful than any other single activity in the game. We will also put a limit on the number of bookmarks that a person can have in the game. See for yourselves http://razorwire.warcry.com/
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:22:00 - [2] Fine, as long as they solve the ctrl-q madness along with it. That may not be a stress on the server, but it most certainly is a stress on the gameplay. Old blog
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:26:00 - [3] Can't wait.
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:31:00 - [4] A pity. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/Badomen88/StormerWOMBSigCopy.png Limits for signatures are 400x120 pixels and 24,000 bytes. Please fix your signature. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip
Dwaine Dibley	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Rod Blaine Fine, as long as they solve the ctrl-q madness along with it. That may not be a stress on the server, but it most certainly is a stress on the gameplay. Could you fill me in on this please?
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:39:00 - [6] cant wait ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:40:00 - [7] <3 --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jodicamar	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:40:00 - [8] Now what about them "Billions" of iskies spent on getting the upperhand with BM's thats going to get deleted.
Tundaar Minmatar Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:41:00 - [9] Hmmm - does that mean BM's near stations as well (don't have access to Eve right now - can't remember If a Station is a "Celestial Object"). If so - no more "Instadocking"
Mongo Smith Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Tundaar Hmmm - does that mean BM's near stations as well (don't have access to Eve right now - can't remember If a Station is a "Celestial Object"). If so - no more "Instadocking" You can warp to 0 to a station (at least that's how it is on the test server)
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:49:00 - [11] Edited by: Varis on 13/11/2006 12:52:32 oh well.. time to adjust .... Might go buy a freighter now :) (yeah, its warp to 0 for anything (stations, cans, asteroids etc etc)
Spanker	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Tundaar Hmmm - does that mean BM's near stations as well (don't have access to Eve right now - can't remember If a Station is a "Celestial Object"). If so - no more "Instadocking" I'd wager my third leg that we'll get a 0km option for warping to stations too. - Shpank
Admiral Pieg Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Jodicamar Now what about them "Billions" of iskies spent on getting the upperhand with BM's thats going to get deleted. What about them? You got the upper hand for the period that you had them, bookmarks have been an issue for ages and their removal has been imminent, anyone that bought them must have known they were only a temporary solution. ______________ Pod from above.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:53:00 - [14] rofl i will never find my pos'es :p ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:57:00 - [15] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 12:58:05 Never mind. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Makhan	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:57:00 - [16] I have to wonder-How will mission runners collect loot? Will we just have to collect all the loot before closing out the mission? Blah, I prefered closing the mission and warping to bm'd cans in the different rooms.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.13 12:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Makhan I have to wonder-How will mission runners collect loot? Will we just have to collect all the loot before closing out the mission? Blah, I prefered closing the mission and warping to bm'd cans in the different rooms. a cloaked transport in the team! ------ relaxed corp looking for members
K8 T	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Splagada a cloaked transport in the team! What "team".. all missions currently ingame can be solo'd including all L4 missions, why would you need a "team" to do anything?
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:07:00 - [19] well theyll still be soloable but not fully lootable without a team then :p ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Splagada rofl i will never find my pos'es :p POSes aren't celestial objects and tend to be situated 1,000km+ from the nearest celestial (the moon). I think. - EVE is sick.
Allen Deckard Gallente WTB Supplies	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Makhan I have to wonder-How will mission runners collect loot? Will we just have to collect all the loot before closing out the mission? Blah, I prefered closing the mission and warping to bm'd cans in the different rooms. So bm the can it's not a celestal object. Whats your point.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:11:00 - [22] ah ok then no change... just like handing out a complete set of gate to gate BMs to everyone ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Allen Deckard Originally by: Makhan I have to wonder-How will mission runners collect loot? Will we just have to collect all the loot before closing out the mission? Blah, I prefered closing the mission and warping to bm'd cans in the different rooms. So bm the can it's not a celestal object. Whats your point. People confuse Warp to 0 with removal of the entire bookmark system for some reason. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:14:00 - [24] My faith in CCP will be much weaker if this change actually does happen. Instas should be removed, but there should be no replacement. Insta Addiction is a problem and its hurting the game (whether you admit it or not). The fix is just more of the same except easier, faster, and with less effort. I'm looking forward to a game dev company that actually stands up for themselves on their game's design principles. All CCP does is cave to the loud and lazy vocal majority, slowly but surely on all issues. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Makhan	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Allen Deckard Originally by: Makhan I have to wonder-How will mission runners collect loot? Will we just have to collect all the loot before closing out the mission? Blah, I prefered closing the mission and warping to bm'd cans in the different rooms. So bm the can it's not a celestal object. Whats your point. People confuse Warp to 0 with removal of the entire bookmark system for some reason. Oh, My mistake then. Thought we couldn't even make bms after the change.
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:20:00 - [26] Thor - we had this argument for the last few weeks. we lost So they get their supercharged-free-instas.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Makhan Oh, My mistake then. Thought we couldn't even make bms after the change. Lots of people before you have figured the same thing, so dont worry. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Thor Xian All CCP does is cave to the loud and lazy vocal majority, slowly but surely on all issues. I think you have been the definite loudest and most crazy one. :) Not sure why you dont realize that its very possible that people will just quit the game if ccp just killed instas with no replacement. Then you can sit there with half the population and slowboat to the gates... CCP made the right business choice, and I think its even good for the game too, even if you dont see it yet. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:25:00 - [29] The first day this goes live, im going to Jita to sit at a gate. I want to see how many players that simply dont get the fact that they can warp right up to the gate. Of course they may be on autopilot... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:26:00 - [30] Autopilot? To Jita? NO WAI! - EVE is sick.
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:34:00 - [31] They could really at least throw us a bone now and fix logging already in Kali-1, too. First step, nerf logging at gates and in bubbles, seconds step in belts etc. No reason to log there and disappear from space after 30 seconds. Just doesn't make much sense except for people, who abuse it to escape. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Zwaplat Caldari Production Inc	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:40:00 - [32] Ah, finally gate campers will have to work for their money. Besides pushing their "I win" button ofcourse. Quote: -Ghoest- The danger in 0.0 should be pirates coming up on you while you are doing stuff, not pirates killing you everytime you knock on the door.
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:47:00 - [33] Lose the warp to 0. But implement warp to any object you can see. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Fortior Quote: Bookmarks are a major problem, the are the cause of a lot of the lag that you experience. There is an incredible amount of bookmark copying taking place in the game, and the stress it puts on the database is enormous. It's more stressful than any other single activity in the game. Then how about fixing the god ** problem, i.e. removing bookmark copying, not something else? =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by:** Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:03:00 - [35] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 14:03:35 Originally by: hydraSlav Then how about fixing the god ** problem, i.e. removing bookmark copying**, not something else? I guess you already have bookmarks. Nice solution there, champ. :) Selfish much? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Spanker	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:28:00 - [36] Edited by: Spanker on 13/11/2006 14:30:04 I was podded in a 0.4 yesterday while afking my covetor, even though I have bookmarks for that particular system. I expect I, and others with me, will keep making that same little blunder as long as the AP stays at 15km default. Fully equipped ship and a full rack of implants gone but at least I had a peaceful 20 mins on the crapper. - Shpank
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:32:00 - [37] As a former pirate but still into pvp I look forward to this change. I am not sure yet how I will overcome the obstacle of warp to 0 but its going to fun finding out. ---------------------------
Spanker	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Dumus As a former pirate but still into pvp I look forward to this change. I am not sure yet how I will overcome the obstacle of warp to 0 but its going to fun finding out. You and your fellow yarrers will most likely overcome it, and quite fast at that. Some eve players are obviously pretty inventive. - Shpank
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:02:00 - [39] Originally by: Thor Xian My faith in CCP will be much weaker if this change actually does happen. Instas should be removed, but there should be no replacement. Insta Addiction is a problem and its hurting the game (whether you admit it or not). The fix is just more of the same except easier, faster, and with less effort. I'm looking forward to a game dev company that actually stands up for themselves on their game's design principles. All CCP does is cave to the loud and lazy vocal majority, slowly but surely on all issues. CCP is there to make money. There is nothing wrong with trying to keep paying customers happy. In fact, they must listen to their customers, or risk being just another game company that went belly-up. Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:03:00 - [40] This issue was addressed at FanFest. Apparently Warp-to-zero is not yet set in stone, because the devs recognize the issues that it involves. If they do institute WTZ, they are considering allowing interdictors (but not warp bubble generators) in low sec. With regard to BMs in general, they plan to allow players to keep some BMs for tactical uses (SS, observation posts, etc.), but may limit the number of BMs that each player may have. I forgot to ask whether existing BMs would remain valid, or if they'd be wiped and we'd have to start over...
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:20:00 - [41] Edited by: Dumus on 13/11/2006 15:19:58 Originally by: Tanis Bastar I forgot to ask whether existing BMs would remain valid, or if they'd be wiped and we'd have to start over... Now theres a scary thought ---------------------------
Amira Silvermist Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:30:00 - [42] Edited by: Amira Silvermist on 13/11/2006 15:32:57 I still hope they decide against doing it but oh well... PS: before anybody jumps and announces that they "removed" all bookmarks on sisi: That is just a bug.
Gourdann Milaa Amarr Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:48:00 - [43] What about making the closest you can get to a gate be dependent on the security of the system, or the frequency of travel through the gate? This would mean that low sec, rarely travelled routes would still be dangerous, but high sec, regular routes would be quite fast to traverse.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:49:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 14:03:35 Originally by: hydraSlav Then how about fixing the god ** problem, i.e. removing bookmark copying*, not something else? I guess you already have bookmarks. Nice solution there, champ. :) Selfish much? Read my other posts on the matter, "champ". I've been advocating "no instas at all" for a very long time. No instas, no local = perfect game. The above is a prime example of CCP ignoring the root of the problem and giving us half-thought fixes =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by:* Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:53:00 - [45] Every book mark has three coordinates. They know every object coordinates. Thefore they run a pgm that removes in the database every BM that is 40km close. I look forward to the new eve. You can still make BM but you only have a limit. You will no be deleting BM like you did when they made you reduce the items in your hangars. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 15:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Gourdann Milaa This would mean that low sec, rarely travelled routes would still be dangerous, but high sec, regular routes would be quite fast to traverse. So kind of the worst of both worlds? ---------- IBTL \o/
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:37:00 - [47] On a slightly random note, I'd be interested to know when (and where)this screenshot was taken. (That's no moon!) Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Vasco Falcon	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:45:00 - [48] Cant wait, low sec/0.0 ere i come
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:37:00 - [49] So, how many BM's will we be allowed to have? can we get say, a week notice so we can make sure we delete the ones we want to delete befor this goes live? Not sure how this works, when they did things like this in SWG, you could not move until you made the nessesary changes. which was a very bad thing if you were an overt reb standing at the Theede starport ona sunday afternoon.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:14:00 - [50] At the round table, a dev threw out the max number of BMs as, say, 300, but he emphasized that that number was arbitrary, and not final by any means. But I would guess it would be in the hundreds rather than the thousands...which would probably be OK if you don't have to worry about instas. One of the miners at the roundtable raised an objection, because apparently miners have lots of BMs (who knew?) No discussion at the roundtable re how any such change would be implemented (notice period, etc.).
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 13:21:16 Originally by: Thor Xian All CCP does is cave to the loud and lazy vocal majority, slowly but surely on all issues. I think you have been the definite loudest and most crazy one. :) Not sure why you dont realize that its very possible that people will just quit the game if ccp just killed instas with no replacement. Then you can sit there with half the population and slowboat to the gates... CCP made the right business choice, and I think its even good for the game too (in more than a massive performance boost), even if you dont see it yet. I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Varis Thor - we had this argument for the last few weeks. we lost So they get their supercharged-free-instas. Yep, and once they have them, there is no turning back...I only hope CCP eventually changes how interstellar travel works (ie no more stargates). ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:04:00 - [53] Originally by: Thor Xian I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. I want to discuss this again 3 months after the introduction on TQ and see if you still have the same opinion. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Originally by: Thor Xian My faith in CCP will be much weaker if this change actually does happen. Instas should be removed, but there should be no replacement. Insta Addiction is a problem and its hurting the game (whether you admit it or not). The fix is just more of the same except easier, faster, and with less effort. I'm looking forward to a game dev company that actually stands up for themselves on their game's design principles. All CCP does is cave to the loud and lazy vocal majority, slowly but surely on all issues. CCP is there to make money. There is nothing wrong with trying to keep paying customers happy. In fact, they must listen to their customers, or risk being just another game company that went belly-up. What about the paying customers that won't miss the ability to insta? With WTZ and this silly desire to make travel as short as possible, why not just let people jump straight to any system they want? I can see this eventually happening. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Zwaplat Ah, finally gate campers will have to work for their money. Besides pushing their "I win" button ofcourse. Low sec campers should be nerfed regardless of WTZ being in our not. They are as or even more lazy than the pro WTZ people. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Uglyone Deep Can Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:08:00 - [56] darwinism just got nerfed :( some ppl need darwin just to learn and now they never will.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:10:00 - [57] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 19:11:02 Originally by: Uglyone darwinism just got nerfed :( some ppl need darwin just to learn and now they never will. You guys with all the darwanism... you are playing a computer game killing nubs in spaceships. That should tell you about darwanism and your role in it... This is just a game ffs. The nub you are killing might be Bill Gates! Darwanism... pff.... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Thor Xian I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. I want to discuss this again 3 months after the introduction on TQ and see if you still have the same opinion. :) We will, bet on it. Maybe by then I'll have a face. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Dragon Lord	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:12:00 - [59] well been on isis and warp to 0km is defo in and coming, but if u set autopilot u warp to 15kms so any lazy afkers are gonna still get pwned
Alha Qmar Caldari Xenon Logistics	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:24:00 - [60] CCP you suck to be honest, why a limit to max bookmarks? Thats just *** in my eyes.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Thor Xian I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. I want to discuss this again 3 months after the introduction on TQ and see if you still have the same opinion. :) We will, bet on it. Maybe by then I'll have a face. How can you be so sure. Your opinion will change. Just remember for 40% of the eve population nothing will change because they already had instas to everywhere anyways. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Zeke Novak	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:31:00 - [62] Good news :D
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:33:00 - [63] Originally by: Thor Xian Maybe by then I'll have a face. CCP can solve many problems, but Ive lost my faith in them for that one... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Noriath	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:40:00 - [64] I think this change is not so bad, the giant advantage that a full set of bookmarks gives a player right now is simply unfair towards everyone who wasn't in the game when bookmarks could be copied by the thousands in an instant. The real issue is that even though in pro PvP everyone warps to 0km anyways, and you just have to deal with that, the warping game in eve is still not very fun, because in fights 90% of the time is spent just barely trying to get a scram on the enemy that is warping and jumping around wildly, and this is not going to make it much better. It's not going to make it much worse either, but it should still be adressed. Warping needs some kind of delay, should never be instant, should have some kind of cooldown and so on...
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:52:00 - [65] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Thor Xian I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. I want to discuss this again 3 months after the introduction on TQ and see if you still have the same opinion. :) We will, bet on it. Maybe by then I'll have a face. How can you be so sure. Your opinion will change. Just remember for 40% of the eve population nothing will change because they already had instas to everywhere anyways. You are naive. Instas are point A to point B. This WTZ is from every single point, including random SSes. There isn't even 1 person in eve that has every single celestial object->gate insta, and definatelly not from every SS to gate, as that is simply impossible. =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by: Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:01:00 - [66] Can't wait! I for one will gleefully rejoice the day all those **** instas I have gathered in my places go away. Warp to 0 was overdue... in BETA... thank god it's finally here.
OhMyGodess Caldari Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:03:00 - [67] Originally by: hydraSlav No instas, no local = perfect game. The above is a prime example of CCP ignoring the root of the problem and giving us half-thought fixes agree
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:04:00 - [68] Originally by: hydraSlav Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Thor Xian I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. I want to discuss this again 3 months after the introduction on TQ and see if you still have the same opinion. :) We will, bet on it. Maybe by then I'll have a face. How can you be so sure. Your opinion will change. Just remember for 40% of the eve population nothing will change because they already had instas to everywhere anyways. You are naive. Instas are point A to point B. This WTZ is from every single point, including random SSes. There isn't even 1 person in eve that has every single celestial object->gate insta, and definatelly not from every SS to gate, as that is simply impossible. I've been playing for one year. In that time, I've gotten the following BM sets. These include Gate to gate, gate to station, station to gate, SS to gate/station and most possible combinations there of. (exluding most empire stations) DEKLEIN PUREBLIND TRIBUTE VALE GEMINATE CURSE FORGE CITADEL LONETREK FADE VENAL TENAL and some other random incomplete sets. On average, my BM sets are 15% bigger than the standard GtG sets. Because they include stations and SS's. And many tacticals. All I can say is, I'll be glad when I don't need them anymore. And I won't need to spend 2 weeks in an inty to make a new set if I decide to move to a new area. The Deeper you stick it in your vien, the deeper the thoughts there is no more pain.
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:06:00 - [69] Originally by: Jodicamar Now what about them "Billions" of iskies spent on getting the upperhand with BM's thats going to get deleted. Bahahahahaha
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:08:00 - [70] Originally by: hydraSlav You are naive. Instas are point A to point B. This WTZ is from every single point, including random SSes. There isn't even 1 person in eve that has every single celestial object->gate insta, and definatelly not from every SS to gate, as that is simply impossible. The fact of the matter is that people already had the instas that kept them safe. Many people have off axis SS's with an insta to the gate from there especially in 'known to be dangerous' places. I know I do. Warp to 0 will just give everyone else those instas while at the same time levelling the playing field. You will have no advantage with your 10,000 lag inducing bookmarks. If anything be happy that the game might run a little smoother... Then, learn how to adapt and thrive. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:07:00 - [71] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Thor Xian I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. I want to discuss this again 3 months after the introduction on TQ and see if you still have the same opinion. :) We will, bet on it. Maybe by then I'll have a face. How can you be so sure. Your opinion will change. Just remember for 40% of the eve population nothing will change because they already had instas to everywhere anyways. Eve will change for them, but their big change came when they learned to create instas in the first place. And no, saying they already had instas is not justification for WTZ, of that you will never convince me. WTZ has to stand on its own merits in my eyes. Instas never should have happened regardless. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:12:00 - [72] "Now what about them "Billions" of iskies spent on getting the upperhand with BM's thats going to get deleted." That is the great thing, you keep your bookmarks, and CCP adds even more for you! You do loose your advantage, but that was pretty silly to gain and advantage by something so simple anyways isnt it.... Kinda like hey well we are deleting all bookmarks with in 40km of a gate, and adding warp to 0km, but onyl for those who who pay 19.99 a month instead of 14.99 a month.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:23:00 - [73] I'm fine with the change, getting rid of GTG BM's had to be top priority. Put in WTZ and let the game run for a few months, then take a look at what needs to be done to make it more low sec PvP friendly, and not simply ganker friendly... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero I give this sig 3/10 for creativity and 10/10 for having me in it :) - Xorus
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:38:00 - [74] To the guy who spent "billions of iskies" on BMs... well... people have been complaining that there aren't enough isk sinks in the game to control inflation... there's one. Hopefully whoever sold the bms to you is outta the game and your isk along with him. I think the game might be better served if they extended the range of the gate guns to 300km and boost their destructive power more. That would solve the gate ganker problem. Oh wait... but the pirates won't like that, so surely the concerns of the vocal majority should be disregarded over the concerns of the minority.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Phoenix Lonestar To the guy who spent "billions of iskies" on BMs... well... people have been complaining that there aren't enough isk sinks in the game to control inflation... there's one. Hopefully whoever sold the bms to you is outta the game and your isk along with him. I think the game might be better served if they extended the range of the gate guns to 300km and boost their destructive power more. That would solve the gate ganker problem. Oh wait... but the pirates won't like that, so surely the concerns of the vocal majority should be disregarded over the concerns of the minority. Gate sentries should be buffed, but WTZ shouldn't happen. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Shirer Aprenon	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:43:00 - [76] The only time i got spanked using instas, was on the side I jumped to. If anyone thinks this is going to make gate camps easier to jump thru - get a grip. A boosted ceptor or two will catch anything going into warp on the jumped into side any day of the week. This just moves camps to the "unseen" side of the gate ------------------ Dad (noun) - someone who's wallet now contains a picture where his money once was.
Barasu Minmatar Crimson Wings Squadron Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:47:00 - [77] Edited by: Barasu on 13/11/2006 22:50:04 Originally by: Fortior Quote: Razor: Tell me about Warp to 0 km. Magnus: It's coming. We will remove any bookmark you personally have that is within 40 km of a celestial object, because you no longer need them. Bookmarks are a major problem, the are the cause of a lot of the lag that you experience. There is an incredible amount of bookmark copying taking place in the game, and the stress it puts on the database is enormous. It's more stressful than any other single activity in the game. We will also put a limit on the number of bookmarks that a person can have in the game. See for yourselves http://razorwire.warcry.com/ wpz = um less lag more complaining till they use it too Whats more disgusting then death? Not Trying!
Farkenloon	Posted - 2006.11.19 17:25:00 - [78] This thread just goes to show that people will complain about anything at all, even just to complain! Everybody will always cheer for whatever change makes the game more fun for them, but remember that you came here to play among other people (MMO) otherwise you'd go play Freelancer or Freespace and as such there must be some compromise. Personally I'm happy to see this change. The lag in EVE has been awful for me (30s bursts while in combat = instapod), and I quit a few months back because of it, only to return now in hopes that they'll actually implement this fix reasonably soon so the lag goes down. I don't really care about the insta-jumps, though WPZ is preferable to going around and making a billion bookmarks, imo. I didn't do it before, I wasn't going to do it now. I play this game to have fun. If I want busy work I can get that elsewhere. As for those that who spent many hours collecting bookmarks or making ISK to buy them, I hope you had a good time doing that. I'm sure you'll have fun thinking up new ways to get an edge in PvP. I think EVE has done a good job of listening to its players, though some would call it "caving in," so everybody will get some of their favorite features included in the game eventually. Plus this change is likely to attract new players by decreasing that advantage veterans have, which I think is higher in EVE than any other MMO by far. That kind of elitism, while fun for veterans and something to strive toward for newbs, will eventually stop the incoming flow of players to the game, and nobody wants that.
Valerek Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:13:00 - [79] Originally by: Farkenloon This thread just goes to show that people will complain about anything at all, even just to complain! Everybody will always cheer for whatever change makes the game more fun for them, but remember that you came here to play among other people (MMO) otherwise you'd go play Freelancer or Freespace and as such there must be some compromise. Personally I'm happy to see this change. The lag in EVE has been awful for me (30s bursts while in combat = instapod), and I quit a few months back because of it, only to return now in hopes that they'll actually implement this fix reasonably soon so the lag goes down. I don't really care about the insta-jumps, though WPZ is preferable to going around and making a billion bookmarks, imo. I didn't do it before, I wasn't going to do it now. I play this game to have fun. If I want busy work I can get that elsewhere. As for those that who spent many hours collecting bookmarks or making ISK to buy them, I hope you had a good time doing that. I'm sure you'll have fun thinking up new ways to get an edge in PvP. I think EVE has done a good job of listening to its players, though some would call it "caving in," so everybody will get some of their favorite features included in the game eventually. Plus this change is likely to attract new players by decreasing that advantage veterans have, which I think is higher in EVE than any other MMO by far. That kind of elitism, while fun for veterans and something to strive toward for newbs, will eventually stop the incoming flow of players to the game, and nobody wants that. You hit it with the comment about "elitism" and that is what high-ranked players have become. They whine because they know that their days are numbered. As low-skilled players start to invade "their turf" things will change. Their ratting holes and their mining holes will stand wide open. I can't wait to start marauding in their grounds. And yes, podkills will go up especially against those former gangkers.
Sales Merchant	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:23:00 - [80] Everyone hates jump queues Everyone hates node deaths Everyone hates lag If warp to 0/bookmark nerf fixes the nodes then I say go for it. I hate to get killed from lag because some bookmark trader is churning out his 581,027th bookmark somewhere else on the node.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:25:00 - [81] Originally by: Valerek You hit it with the comment about "elitism" and that is what high-ranked players have become. They whine because they know that their days are numbered. As low-skilled players start to invade "their turf" things will change. Their ratting holes and their mining holes will stand wide open. I can't wait to start marauding in their grounds. And yes, podkills will go up especially against those former gangkers. I 'whine' because instas never should have been allowed in the first place. But the whiners convinced CCP they were good. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Scoundrelus Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:25:00 - [82] Originally by: Valerek Originally by: Farkenloon This thread just goes to show that people will complain about anything at all, even just to complain! Everybody will always cheer for whatever change makes the game more fun for them, but remember that you came here to play among other people (MMO) otherwise you'd go play Freelancer or Freespace and as such there must be some compromise. Personally I'm happy to see this change. The lag in EVE has been awful for me (30s bursts while in combat = instapod), and I quit a few months back because of it, only to return now in hopes that they'll actually implement this fix reasonably soon so the lag goes down. I don't really care about the insta-jumps, though WPZ is preferable to going around and making a billion bookmarks, imo. I didn't do it before, I wasn't going to do it now. I play this game to have fun. If I want busy work I can get that elsewhere. As for those that who spent many hours collecting bookmarks or making ISK to buy them, I hope you had a good time doing that. I'm sure you'll have fun thinking up new ways to get an edge in PvP. I think EVE has done a good job of listening to its players, though some would call it "caving in," so everybody will get some of their favorite features included in the game eventually. Plus this change is likely to attract new players by decreasing that advantage veterans have, which I think is higher in EVE than any other MMO by far. That kind of elitism, while fun for veterans and something to strive toward for newbs, will eventually stop the incoming flow of players to the game, and nobody wants that. You hit it with the comment about "elitism" and that is what high-ranked players have become. They whine because they know that their days are numbered. As low-skilled players start to invade "their turf" things will change. Their ratting holes and their mining holes will stand wide open. I can't wait to start marauding in their grounds. And yes, podkills will go up especially against those former gangkers. I don't know if I'm considered an elitist but I MORE then welcome anyone into my space. The more targ- err friends, the better. =============================================== And Scoundrelus walked the Forums once again, and all was turned to flame...
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:32:00 - [83] I do not agree to WTZ but I will adapt. /me waits for WTZ and flies nothing but battleships only gangs. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:36:00 - [84] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I do not agree to WTZ but I will adapt. /me waits for WTZ and flies nothing but battleships only gangs. I will too, tbh. But I'll probably feel cheap doing it lol. Granted I'll be in a Hurricane not a BS. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:37:00 - [85] Originally by: Dumus As a former pirate but still into pvp I look forward to this change. I am not sure yet how I will overcome the obstacle of warp to 0 but its going to fun finding out. Thats more like it! No whining just getting on and working out new ways.. hopefully ones that wont catch me out though :) Gratz to Dumus for being an intelligent (former)pirate. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:41:00 - [86] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I do not agree to WTZ but I will adapt. /me waits for WTZ and flies nothing but battleships only gangs. I will too, tbh. But I'll probably feel cheap doing it lol. Granted I'll be in a Hurricane not a BS. Why feel cheap doing it? BS gangs pwn everything. BS gangs can easily move with WTZ. All the newbs at low sec gates will cry so much on forum because BS gangs can tank sentries. May be all future combats will be battleships and interdictors. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:43:00 - [87] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I do not agree to WTZ but I will adapt. /me waits for WTZ and flies nothing but battleships only gangs. I will too, tbh. But I'll probably feel cheap doing it lol. Granted I'll be in a Hurricane not a BS. Why feel cheap doing it? BS gangs pwn everything. BS gangs can easily move with WTZ. All the newbs at low sec gates will cry so much on forum because BS gangs can tank sentries. May be all future combats will be battleships and interdictors. I love my BSes, I just would rather be one of the few who do lol. WTZ makes BSes more common =/ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Admiral Machiavelli	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:19:00 - [88] What the Hell? I don't care about 'omg lag!', personally. What's really going to kill me is when people are taking advantage of WTZ to move around easily in low-security space. The expensive price of instas combined with the threat of piracy is what keeps a lot of High-Sec players from spilling over into the adjoining, "dangerous" regions currently. WTZ will effectively slice that in half (or even more), because as more carebear players move from High->Low Sec you will have a decreasing risk of piracy in these new highly populated systems (on average). These players will likely not add to the pirate population as they stayed in High-Sec for so long, and are therefore less inclined to turn towards PvP. Some may argue that this will be beneficial to piracy, as there will be a wealth of new targets. However, if you are a pirate, do you really want to go picking off targets in a 100+ populated system of carebears? The pirate would probably either be 1) run out of system quickly or 2) summarily squashed by a horde of rampaging bees. Higher population leads to greater security. So, you will have more people and more security in Low-Sec space, since it will be easier to get to (essentially free!) with WTZ. Guess what's going to happen to your market when people are stripping Low Security ice belts like they did in High Sec. Think about the impact on the market it will have when Zydrine is made positively common through the actions of swarms of carebear miners stripping these 'rarer' belts clean. Worst idea ever.
Ixianus	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:35:00 - [89] This change sucks and is counter pointive to what Eve is supposed to be about. Why cant I just buy modules from anywhere in a region, or hell, the entire universe, and have them appear where Im at when i buy them.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.19 21:14:00 - [90] only 40KM? id make it upto 80 tbh. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Farkenloon	Posted - 2006.11.19 21:35:00 - [91] Originally by: Admiral Machiavelli What the Hell? I don't care about 'omg lag!', personally. What's really going to kill me is when people are taking advantage of WTZ to move around easily in low-security space. The expensive price of instas combined with the threat of piracy is what keeps a lot of High-Sec players from spilling over into the adjoining, "dangerous" regions currently. WTZ will effectively slice that in half (or even more), because as more carebear players move from High->Low Sec you will have a decreasing risk of piracy in these new highly populated systems (on average). These players will likely not add to the pirate population as they stayed in High-Sec for so long, and are therefore less inclined to turn towards PvP. Some may argue that this will be beneficial to piracy, as there will be a wealth of new targets. However, if you are a pirate, do you really want to go picking off targets in a 100+ populated system of carebears? The pirate would probably either be 1) run out of system quickly or 2) summarily squashed by a horde of rampaging bees. Higher population leads to greater security. So, you will have more people and more security in Low-Sec space, since it will be easier to get to (essentially free!) with WTZ. Guess what's going to happen to your market when people are stripping Low Security ice belts like they did in High Sec. Think about the impact on the market it will have when Zydrine is made positively common through the actions of swarms of carebear miners stripping these 'rarer' belts clean. Worst idea ever. Those that don't care about 'omg lag!' are the ones most likely not experiencing it. I made it a point not to whine about lag earlier or now, but I wanted to mention that as being the main reason for agreeing with CCP's changes to bookmarks. As for the side effect of WTZ and what that does for PvP and the economy, you're making a lot of assumptions in your scenario. If there are 100+ carebears in a system, that's just 100+ targets for a good pirate. If carebears were aggressive and good at PvP, then you wouldn't be calling them carebears, would you? :) Instead of a horde of rampaging bees, you can imagine a field of grazing gazelles (only bigger, and munching on rocks). The only thing you ought to be afraid of in the new system is not having the cargo space to haul all the ammo you'll need, if there are that many stupid players willing to take their shiny new miners out into 0.0 space as soon as WTZ comes up. If higher population really led to better security, then carebear alliances could just head out to low sec space now. WTZ isn't going to make anyone invincible. Pirates that have to rely on gate camping to get their jollies aren't a lot different from carebears in my opinion, they just have bigger guns.
Roy Batty68	Posted - 2006.11.19 21:45:00 - [92] Originally by: Jodicamar Now what about them "Billions" of iskies spent on getting the upperhand with BM's thats going to get deleted. Caveat Emptor Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Wan Bai	Posted - 2006.11.19 21:51:00 - [93] Here's a question from a sniper specialist in fleet and other situations like gate sniping haulers in low-sec or protecting my home 0.0 system from raids: As a sniper I have multiple BMs around each gate and around the station. Let's say I have 5-6 BMs around a gate and 8 around the station. There are 4 gates in my system, so maximum that's 32 BMs in a system. But that's not it, also have a set of BMs for short sniping if i'm in my harpy, so that's double: 64 BMs in a system, it's a lot, but it's my home. Other systems aren't nearly as well planned out, but it begs to ask the question: How will snipers, at least fleet snipers in 0.0 who have a stake to claim and protect, fare? And whether the minimum distance is 40 or 80km doesn't make much of a difference since my BMs, even the short distance ones are 90-110km.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 21:58:00 - [94] Originally by: Rod Blaine Fine, as long as they solve the ctrl-q madness along with it. That may not be a stress on the server, but it most certainly is a stress on the gameplay. And hopefully add a few new ways to catch people, too. But yea, saw this one comming a mile off. //Maya
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. - Fanatics	Posted - 2006.11.19 22:53:00 - [95] Yeeee-haaaaa!!! Keep it comin' baby! :) ...now in RED
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 23:24:00 - [96] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 19/11/2006 23:28:48 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 19:11:02 Originally by: Uglyone darwinism just got nerfed :( some ppl need darwin just to learn and now they never will. You guys with all the darwanism... you are playing a computer game killing nubs in spaceships. That should tell you about darwanism and your role in it... This is just a game ffs. The nub you are killing might be Bill Gates! Darwanism... pff.... QFT. People don't understand the actual concept of Darwinism. One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. As for warp to 0, I think the sky is now falling for certain type of carebear. These are carebears who like to kill people, but don't seem to have the brains to work out there are plenty of ways to kill people even with a warp to 0 implementation.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.20 02:02:00 - [97] Originally by: Nev Clavain QFT. People don't understand the actual concept of Darwinism. One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. As for warp to 0, I think the sky is now falling for certain type of carebear. These are carebears who like to kill people, but don't seem to have the brains to work out there are plenty of ways to kill people even with a warp to 0 implementation. Carebear? One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
xinndo	Posted - 2006.11.20 02:56:00 - [98] as a relatively new player to eve. wtz - good thing. combat should not be about who has the best bookmarks! eve online is about to take its next step to mainstream gaming - ala . pick up the slack from disillusioned mmo' players from wow in a gradual step then the significant dx10 upgrade. imsho - you guys have had it easy for far to long. in the next 2 years, pvp going to change - have to look for fight and stay for it. time of the warp bubble/camp will soon be at an end. really think about it - how challenge are u as an individual (no matter what experience or age) are you in eve? eve online is gaining in popularity - as such it can no longer be a subscription based mmo with no skill basis. (this is not a "dig" at veterans - but seriously - get a grip, you all know u play other games for the buzz ) conc. ms + dx10 - eve going to change. like or not - some things yes will indeed change. but its a great game "but just not what we know as jim"
Arekhon	Posted - 2006.11.20 03:03:00 - [99] Not to say that I am some PVP master , cause I am not but it seems that most of the peeps whinning are the gate campers/gankers. I for one have all of my kills out in the belts jumping my unsuspecting prey. Or IO catch them complex running...hehe. So really what is the big deal. You get more noobs in low sec to rat ie. more tgts. You can still have your bubbles/dictors in 0.0 to protect your space, cause everytime I have used an insta in 0.0 I have still been pulled from warp by the bubble. So you can't bubble in lowsec without sentry fire you say? Well you could not attack at gate without sentry fire anyhow. my two cents
Decairn Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.20 03:10:00 - [100] I look forward to being able to open People n Places 'Places' tab again without a 1 minute delay and a 1 minute delay again on making a BM. --Decairn
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.11.20 06:41:00 - [101] Even though I pirate, I quite like this change. Gatecamps can still be done on the 'jump in'. With a bit of luck, empire dwellers with their brand new Warp To 0 system will risk going into low sec more often, so they can compensate the loss in revenue from the 'warp in' customers. I recall our first 2 moves (before the bookmark copy nerf) and I spend hours logged on in a station just to distribute the regional insta's to my corpies (after the BM nerf, I slacked though ). With Warp to Zero, we can just plot our AP with whatever we got instead of hoping we got someone with the insta's as a taxi-driver or all of us packing smaller ships. I foresee more globalised terror after Kali The only downside I see is the added Hitpoints, allowing people to play stupid docking/jumping game some more and prevent you from entering a busy system and blow some poor fella's up before the cavalry arrives. Perhaps CCP can be nice to us pirates and spit people out at 15km or more away from stations (like uncloaking after jump in does)?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.20 07:31:00 - [102] Originally by: xinndo as a relatively new player to eve. Cool, newbies are good for any game. Quote: wtz - good thing. I disagree. Quote: combat should not be about who has the best bookmarks! Amen brother! Quote: eve online is about to take its next step to mainstream gaming - ala . pick up the slack from disillusioned mmo' players from wow in a gradual step then the significant dx10 upgrade. Making the game cater to impatient types who want things to happen as soon as they realize they want them is not worth going into 'mainstream gaming'. Quote: imsho - you guys have had it easy for far to long. in the next 2 years, pvp going to change - have to look for fight and stay for it. PvP might change...well gate sniping isn't real PvP imo. Quote: time of the warp bubble/camp will soon be at an end. Quite the opposite actually, not only will Warp Bubble camps still be effective, but Large Warp Bubbles will finally be available. Quote: really think about it - how challenge are u as an individual (no matter what experience or age) are you in eve? The challenge for me has nothing to do with gate pvp. Quote: eve online is gaining in popularity - as such it can no longer be a subscription based mmo with no skill basis. What? WTZ does not add skill, it removes some of it. Quote: (this is not a "dig" at veterans - but seriously - get a grip, you all know u play other games for the buzz ) I play other games because my friends don't have patience for Eve, granted I could tell them Eve is becoming just as easy as WoW and see if they might change their minds. Quote: conc. ms + dx10 - eve going to change. like or not - some things yes will indeed change. but its a great game "but just not what we know as jim" Change is good, exact change is better. Back on topic, improvements are welcome, WTZ is not. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.20 08:23:00 - [103] Originally by: Rod Blaine Fine, as long as they solve the ctrl-q madness along with it. That may not be a stress on the server, but it most certainly is a stress on the gameplay. Agreed, and fix login traps at the same time please.
Eudyptes sclateri	Posted - 2006.11.20 09:43:00 - [104] Originally by: Nev Clavain QFT. People don't understand the actual concept of Darwinism. One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. Thank you, someone finally said it! Darwin's theory on natural selection has to be the single most misused and misquoted scientific theory. There are tons of herbivores and even plants with higher fitness than some predators. Natural selection is not about killing and survival; it's about reproduction. And the closest thing we have to that in EVE is when my **** drones stop 2km away from my ship and start humping eachother. __________________________________________________ Ever notice that people who say "problem solved" seem to have the worst ideas?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:00:00 - [105] Originally by: Eudyptes sclateri Originally by: Nev Clavain QFT. People don't understand the actual concept of Darwinism. One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. Thank you, someone finally said it! Darwin's theory on natural selection has to be the single most misused and misquoted scientific theory. There are tons of herbivores and even plants with higher fitness than some predators. Natural selection is not about killing and survival; it's about reproduction. And the closest thing we have to that in EVE is when my **** drones stop 2km away from my ship and start humping eachother. In the forum world the real meaning died out and the psuedo meaning survived. Darwinism at work on its own definition. ---------- IBTL \o/
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:22:00 - [106] I think WTZ is a great thing. I live in 0.0 and it is very rare that you come across enemies warping to gates or stations at 15km, pretty much everyone use instant bms where I live. So not much will change for my game play except it will be less laggy ad that is very good. Hopefully people start travelling more aswell now that you don't have to copy 500 bms to travel safer in a new region. Celes/Toxin vs BOB
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 13:37:00 - [107] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Nev Clavain QFT. People don't understand the actual concept of Darwinism. One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. As for warp to 0, I think the sky is now falling for certain type of carebear. These are carebears who like to kill people, but don't seem to have the brains to work out there are plenty of ways to kill people even with a warp to 0 implementation. Carebear? One person must have mentioned once and its become an irritating forum catchphrase ever since. Lol fair enough, you got me :) Mind you i don't use it often, I just know the people I was referring to would hate being called carebear. And also to Thor Xian if he is still reading this thread, can you please tell me exactly what warp to 0 has changed. I know there are numerous obscure examples you can use to say certain things have been made easier. However I would say the majority of people doing long trips or moving through lowsec or 0.0 will already have instas and will be using them. There aren't that many explorers in this game who constantly switch to different areas, and even when they are do you know the first thing they do when they get there - get in a fast ship or cloaker and make instas for the whole new route or journey, if they plan to do it often. Whats the first thing a fleet does when going to a new region? get a load of instas. The whole system is a farce to be honest and is killing the server, and the large majority will make or obtain instas for anywhere they travel frequently. Admittedly there is a tiny majority who seem to consider themselves hardcore for not using instas under any circumstances. Presumably these people also like to indulge in self-flagellation at the weekends (jk)
Halafian The Graduates	Posted - 2006.11.20 14:05:00 - [108] A very obvious and excellent change for the game. CCP's proposed new system is excellent -- a nice balance of features. Sure, there are the knee-jerk whiners, but there's a complainer in every crowd. Very much looking forward to this change, which will hopefully open the game up some.
Allaina Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2006.11.20 14:21:00 - [109] Originally by: Noriath I think this change is not so bad, the giant advantage that a full set of bookmarks gives a player right now is simply unfair towards everyone who wasn't in the game when bookmarks could be copied by the thousands in an instant. Thousands of bookmarks in an instant? That was NEVER the case.
FactorzGT Quantum Industries	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:04:00 - [110] what about the part where anchored warp disruptor probes suck you in even if they are physically BEHIND the gate where they are deployed?
Zarquon Beeblebrox Liberate Vos Ex Inferis	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:55:00 - [111] Im verry sad to see "warp to 0" introduced to the game. Id prefere all the instas removed and ppl had to travle the 15km But i gues the crybabys have once more won the arguments. -- Lady Beeblebrox
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:02:00 - [112] Originally by: Zarquon Beeblebrox Im verry sad to see "warp to 0" introduced to the game. Id prefere all the instas removed and ppl had to travle the 15km But i gues the crybabys have once more won the arguments. If the best you can come up with is that everyone who disagrees with you is a 'crybaby', then im not surprised you lost the argument.
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:24:00 - [113] Edited by: Grez on 21/11/2006 02:24:46 I'm a pirate, and I honestly don't care about this change. I can see many people pouting like babies, because their ability to insta-pop haulers and what not without insta's is going to go bye-bye. This game is not about solo work, and this change is going to force people to work in gangs, doesn't matter how big, or small. You're going to need co-ordination to catch someone you want to kill. A real pirate doesn't just sit at one gate, at a sniper spot (or not), and wait for a ship (by chance) to warp to 15km, so they can ****them silly. A real pirate chases his pray, and kills him/her. This warp to 0km will just allow the newer players without bookmarks to have the same chance as you at warping to a gate at 0km. I mean, hell. we already have WTZ in-game, some of you just don't realise it. And I fail to see the point of how removing all bookmarks and keeping warp-in to 15km is going to make the game better. I can see people not wanting to move about at all unless in very large gangs, it'll also take forever to get anywhere. And whilst I can understand the arguement of players not wanting travel to be instantanious - I have bookmarks, and it still takes me a while to get from point A > B with a gang with waiting for everyone to align, etc. All this does is allow your pray to have the same chance as YOU, and if you can't hack that, then I guess we'll all say goodbye to those of you who refuse to adapt. Oh, and that comment about CCP caving into people whining about wanting WTZ? Why should they cave into people whining against WTZ? You're doing exactly the same thing as they are, and I honestly can't see a distinctive difference between the two parties, it looks about 50/50. I will adapt, and I will prevail. Whatever CCP has to throw at my way of playing this game, I will take as a head on challange. I will find new ways to kill my enemy, and in that, I'm sure I'll find a new satisfation when I kill them. - Grez --- Cache Clearer Still waiting for a Wrangler-edit!*
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:40:00 - [114] Originally by: Nev Clavain And also to Thor Xian if he is still reading this thread, can you please tell me exactly what warp to 0 has changed. I am, and I will. WTZ change isn't gameplay as it stands now as much as it is CCP showing a willingness to bend to the playerbase by making things easier when they don't need to be. WTZ is not a solution to the gameplay problems instas created, all WTZ will do is reduce lag. Killing instas never required WTZ or anything like it to happen and still doesn't. Quote: I know there are numerous obscure examples you can use to say certain things have been made easier. Certainly are a few. Quote: However I would say the majority of people doing long trips or moving through lowsec or 0.0 will already have instas and will be using them. That never was and never will be a legitimate justification for WTZ. Quote: There aren't that many explorers in this game who constantly switch to different areas, and even when they are do you know the first thing they do when they get there - get in a fast ship or cloaker and make instas for the whole new route or journey, if they plan to do it often. And this overwhelming need to engage in this behavior is somehow supposed to be a good thing? If they got in a fast ship to make the instas, why can't they just get in a fast ship to travel in the first place? Quote: Whats the first thing a fleet does when going to a new region? get a load of instas. Yep, these silly Blobs would be much less prolific without instas/WTZ since distance will have much more meaning. Not to mention a greater chance of strategic planning being necessary. Quote: The whole system is a farce to be honest and is killing the server, and the large majority will make or obtain instas for anywhere they travel frequently. Agreed, but I don't think they should be able to. Quote: Admittedly there is a tiny majority who seem to consider themselves hardcore for not using instas under any circumstances. Presumably these people also like to indulge in self-flagellation at the weekends (jk) I am not hardcore for refusing to use instas, I just give a **** about the game as a whole, not just my small part in it. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:49:00 - [115] Originally by: Grez I'm a pirate, and I honestly don't care about this change. WTZ makes it easier for real pirates. The Gate Campers whining are irrelevant. Quote: I can see many people pouting like babies, because their ability to insta-pop haulers and what not without insta's is going to go bye-bye. This game is not about solo work, and this change is going to force people to work in gangs, doesn't matter how big, or small. You're going to need co-ordination to catch someone you want to kill. What did you need before to catch someone you want to kill? Quote: A real pirate doesn't just sit at one gate, at a sniper spot (or not), and wait for a ship (by chance) to warp to 15km, so they can ***them silly. A real pirate chases his pray, and kills him/her. This warp to 0km will just allow the newer players without bookmarks to have the same chance as you at warping to a gate at 0km. Nobody should have instas, no matter how old they are. Quote: I mean, hell. we already have WTZ in-game, some of you just don't realise it. I realize it, but that doesn't mean I won't fight it. CCP wants to fix the BM problem in the Name of Server Stability, but they cave on the gameplay addiction instas caused by making this WTZ stuff. Quote: And I fail to see the point of how removing all bookmarks and keeping warp-in to 15km is going to make the game better. Clearly. Quote: I can see people not wanting to move about at all unless in very large gangs, And that is different than now? Quote: it'll also take forever to get anywhere. As it should, distance needs to matter. Quote: And whilst I can understand the arguement of players not wanting travel to be instantanious - I have bookmarks, and it still takes me a while to get from point A > B with a gang with waiting for everyone to align, etc. It takes you awhile from your point of view (which is always the case no matter how fast you are going), but in the big picture you are going way too fast. Quote: All this does is allow your pray to have the same chance as YOU, and if you can't hack that, then I guess we'll all say goodbye to those of you who refuse to adapt. Refuse to adapt to what? Quote: Oh, and that comment about CCP caving into people whining about wanting WTZ? Why should they cave into people whining against WTZ? Because CCP designed Eve to not have WTZ. I'm defending the integrity of CCP's game even if they won't. Quote: You're doing exactly the same thing as they are, and I honestly can't see a distinctive difference between the two parties, it looks about 50/50. My motives are not selfish, pro-WTZers can't say that. Quote:** I will adapt, and I will prevail. Whatever CCP has to throw at my way of playing this game, I will take as a head on challange. I will find new ways to kill my enemy, and in that, I'm sure I'll find a new satisfation when I kill them. - Grez Have fun. WTZ is a fix alright, a fix for addicts. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Halafian The Graduates	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:08:00 - [116] It seems odd, to say the least, to argue that WTZ is not Eve-as-intended, when the people who design and build Eve apparently disagree. Moreover, even existing functionality allows WTZ in effect. You can repeat all you like that it's not part of Eve, but there's no basis for that. That's just your opinion, and an increasingly irrelevant one, since all the evidence runs the other way. It's going to be an excellent change, and will encourage people to do a little poking around.
tadig smik Taintclan Industries	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:26:00 - [117] Originally by: Admiral Pieg Originally by: Jodicamar Now what about them "Billions" of iskies spent on getting the upperhand with BM's thats going to get deleted. What about them? You got the upper hand for the period that you had them, bookmarks have been an issue for ages and their removal has been imminent, anyone that bought them must have known they were only a temporary solution. If it's not CCP sanctioned... you're gambling with your ISK. Remember EIB?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:22:00 - [118] Originally by: Halafian It seems odd, to say the least, to argue that WTZ is not Eve-as-intended, when the people who design and build Eve apparently disagree. Moreover, even existing functionality allows WTZ in effect. You can repeat all you like that it's not part of Eve, but there's no basis for that. That's just your opinion, and an increasingly irrelevant one, since all the evidence runs the other way. It's going to be an excellent change, and will encourage people to do a little poking around. I remember when instas were a new invention that few knew about. I remember telling people how to make them. I remember how Eve changed when the insta addiction took hold. Lag got worse and so did gameplay. WTZ was never built into Eve until Kali. It was always an unintended feature...I had just hoped CCP would be smart enough to kill them while they had a chance to. But it looks like they will cross the point of no return...all too willingly. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Le Skunk Privateers	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:31:00 - [119] Has it been suggested that warp to 0km could be implemented in High Sec, but the standard system works in 0.0 This would reduce server load and cut the tedium traveling round empire, whilst still making 0.0 a dangerous place to pop your head into and provide a home advantage for the locals. Didnt we learn something about compromise from sesamme street. Wernt we paying attention. One-two-three-four-five-six-seven-eight-nine-ten-eleven-twelve
Redpants Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:44:00 - [120] So if we can just warp to 0, then what's the purpose of CONCORD Billboards anymore. Who's going to see them? I use instas myself but I always appreciated having to taxi from 15 in the sole respect that it's the only time in the game you get to see other travelers around you and look at their ships. Of course if you're in a corp you get to see your corpmates ships but I think you get the point without the few exceptions. Scanning industrial ships cargo holds in trade lanes will also be impossible. I mean half of me likes this idea because I do use instas anyway, but part of me does not like instas either and doesn't know what the good solution is, if it's not Warp to 0. ________________________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Kolwrath	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:06:00 - [121] Quote: A real pirate doesn't just sit at one gate, at a sniper spot (or not), and wait for a ship (by chance) to warp to 15km, so they can ***them silly. A real pirate chases his pray, and kills him/her. This warp to 0km will just allow the newer players without bookmarks to have the same chance as you at warping to a gate at 0km. Nobody should have instas, no matter how old they are. 100isk says he has a whole wack of instas. Quote: And I fail to see the point of how removing all bookmarks and keeping warp-in to 15km is going to make the game better. Clearly. Wow great counter argument. I am speachless. Quote: All this does is allow your pray to have the same chance as YOU, and if you can't hack that, then I guess we'll all say goodbye to those of you who refuse to adapt. Refuse to adapt to what? Uhhh I am guessing he was refering to change. Just a shot in the dark. Quote:** Oh, and that comment about CCP caving into people whining about wanting WTZ? Why should they cave into people whining against WTZ? Because CCP designed Eve to not have WTZ. I'm defending the integrity of CCP's game even if they won't. Wow this is rich. Please get off the soap box. "Integrety"? Its a just a game ... not an idealogical movement. Please go outside once in a while.
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:21:00 - [122] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 13:21:16 Originally by: Thor Xian All CCP does is cave to the loud and lazy vocal majority, slowly but surely on all issues. I think you have been the definite loudest and most crazy one. :) Not sure why you dont realize that its very possible that people will just quit the game if ccp just killed instas with no replacement. Then you can sit there with half the population and slowboat to the gates... CCP made the right business choice, and I think its even good for the game too (in more than a massive performance boost), even if you dont see it yet. I think every single one of the pro WTZ people just plain can't see the big picture. Eve is a better game for everyone without it and instas. Personally. I think your opinion on the matter really sucks. I have ready several of your posts now on this topic and I just dont simply see your point of view here. I can understand your points. I just dont agree with them. The negative impact on the game would be FAR greater by removing BM's all together with no substitue. ________________________________________________________
Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:24:00 - [123] Quote: Because CCP designed Eve to not have WTZ. I'm defending the integrity of CCP's game even if they won't Actually your completely wrong there. warp to 0 was an original feature of beta first second and third stage. ie they didnt put in new code for it , they just finally turned it on. oh and btw travel time matters in one way you refuse or wont consider while whining ur gate ganking is being forced to the other side of the gate FUN the hardcore players in this game with 30-50 hours a week are a minority. this means that most of the other 90 percent of us with only an hour or two to play ( can i get a amen from the married folks with wives ) shouldnt have to spend our 7 hours a week traveling, if i wanted to be on the ******* road that much id go back to work or start playing a driving or flight sim. I for one know that if i had to spend most of my time traveling to catch up to the gang thats usually roaming in a diff location every day I would quit, if its within 2-3 regions you should be able to get there within 15 min. for me that leaves about an hour and a half of decent pvp, isking etc.. oh and btw ccp never caved on insta bookmarks either those were also a feature of beta. and it was pretty obvious from day one if you wanted to land on a gate what you had to do you should spend some time looking up the actualy gameplay and vids of the beta and first years of eve, maybe then youll have an opinion thats based on fact instead of the fiction in your head.
X ChaosX Trogdor the Burninator Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:08:00 - [124] Originally by: Splagada ah ok then no change... just like handing out a complete set of gate to gate BMs to everyone Wrong. Its handing out a complete set of gate to gate, belt to gate, planet to gate and safespot to gate instas to everyone. ___ Originally by: Bill Shankly i see your another one of those lousy pirates that cant fight fair and call yourself apvper, what a joke u are. Don't represent corp or alliance blah blah
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:36:00 - [125] I think these changes are great. They're not ideal but at least CCP are doing something. Anyway my thoughts on warp-to-zero: If database lag was the problem caused by bookmarks, how is warp to zero going to solve anything? Multiple Safespots Tactical BMs Fleet BMs Sniping BMs Scouting BMs I'd bet the above still account for a HUGE amount of Bookmarks. Even if you take every BM in a 20km radius from a gate or station out of the equasion, will it really change anything?
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:40:00 - [126] OH NOES!!! the game is being ruined!!!!111!!11!1! Anyone else remember these same sentiments when autopilot was added? Or when Missles were nerfed? Or when drones were nerfed? Or countless other times before. The typical twits scream and cry and threaten to quit. Then they adapt, or they leave. Don't get so exicted, it's bad for your blood preasure. ______________________________________________ Such a heavy burden now to be the one Born to bear and bring to all The details of our ending
Benglada Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:42:00 - [127] Interdiction bubbles need to be useable in empire now, even if Mobile disruptors arent. Huge. Piracy. Nerf. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
LWMaverick Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:53:00 - [128] Originally by: Benglada Interdiction bubbles need to be useable in empire now, even if Mobile disruptors arent. Huge. Piracy. Nerf. ^^ Warp to 15k & Removing of all gate bookmarks = Win ... Instead of this 0km bs! <3
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:10:00 - [129] Originally by: Paladineguru warp to 0 was an original feature of beta first second and third stage. ie they didnt put in new code for it , they just finally turned it on. Why do you think they killed it in beta? On accident? ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:07:00 - [130] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Paladineguru warp to 0 was an original feature of beta first second and third stage. ie they didnt put in new code for it , they just finally turned it on. Why do you think they killed it in beta? On accident? well what they told us is that they thought making us fly 15km behind it and mark the exact astronavigational point was more realistic. ofc that was befoer 30k active people with 80 percent of them using bm's that take up and use server rescources.
Sally Caldari R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.22 17:03:00 - [131] I dont care for WTZ, but reducing lag is a great thing. So its definitly a right move from CCP. -- Stories: #1 --
Rodrigo Sarn	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:34:00 - [132] Ok, that's a good reason for warp to 0 IF it noticeably cuts down lag. But to allow for some gatecamping, why don't they just have a mandatory time queue? As an added benefit, systems that are full could have longer queues going in than other systems (and shorter queues out).
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.11.22 20:53:00 - [133] Originally by: Valan Lose the warp to 0. But implement warp to any object you can see. soo love that idea over warp to 0... you warp to 15km like normal, but you can warp to 0km after you arrived, if your targeted/aggroed you cant warp to objects in close space aka other ships/gates etc. not usable in deadspace ofc --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Pang Grohl Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.22 22:50:00 - [134] No longer do I get to thrill at out running the gate snipers... Those juicy low sec ores are now in reach... Now everyone will be using my short cut through the woods, because they built an effing expressway on it... Yay! for exploits becoming game mechanics.[/sarcasm] Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.