EVE Search - WCS nerf won't fix Vagabond imbalance

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

WCS nerf won't fix Vagabond imbalance

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Talo Momoe Caldari Messerschmitt Shipyards The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:44:00 - [1] In my experience, it's not the warp core stabilizers that are the problem with Vagabonds. It's the **ed speed. Certainly stabs make any ship more survivable, and nerfing them makes it riskier for a Vagabond. But fundamentally what makes them ridiculously unbalanced is their speed. Even with no stabs equipped, it takes a few seconds at most, and usually not even that long, for them to fly out of range of warp disruptors, even when webbed two or three times, and then they can run away anyway. More significantly, because they're basically the fastest ship in the game, they can pick their angle of attack, and when and how they fight. Basically, they can pick every battle, they can get out of it whenever they choose, and they tank and shoot nearly as well as any other heavy assault cruiser. There are going to be a lot of Vagabond pilots replying to this claiming all sorts of weaknesses that supposedly balance out the ship. It's nonsense. I don't care that nos can cripple you. Nos will cripple any ship. That doesn't balance a ** thing. All it takes is a second or two for you to be out of nos range, and no, that is not long enough to kill you except in extreme circumstances. I don't care what your tanking limitations are. It takes you half a second to get out of range, and you can fly faster than missiles. And definitely don't give me any crap about any ship being able to fly that fast if you put the right gear and implants together. Everyone knows that's nonsense. The WCS nerf will not fix the problem with Vagabonds. You'll still have every half-wit lamer with too much money to spend soloing against fleets with little or no risk. Fix the speed problem. Then there will be some vague balance.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:47:00 - [2] Huginns and Rapiers The Vagabond is an excellent solo/skirmish ship but gets less and less useful as the numbers of people in a gang increase. Ships that are very good solo (Dominix, Vagabond, Ishtar, Pilgrim and so on) usually require multiple ships to counter them when they are alone, as they excel at 1v1s and skirmishing. Not every ship is supposed to be counterable in a 1v1 situation at all times. If you get the Vagabond webbed, you can kill it pretty easily as it doesn't have the slots to web back (unless it's using an armour tank, in which case it won't have hax speed). _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Talo Momoe In my experience, it's not the warp core stabilizers that are the problem with Vagabonds. It's the **ed speed. Certainly stabs make any ship more survivable, and nerfing them makes it riskier for a Vagabond. But fundamentally what makes them ridiculously unbalanced is their speed. Even with no stabs equipped, it takes a few seconds at most, and usually not even that long, for them to fly out of range of warp disruptors, even when webbed two or three times, and then they can run away anyway. More significantly, because they're basically the fastest ship in the game, they can pick their angle of attack, and when and how they fight. Basically, they can pick every battle, they can get out of it whenever they choose, and they tank and shoot nearly as well as any other heavy assault cruiser. There are going to be a lot of Vagabond pilots replying to this claiming all sorts of weaknesses that supposedly balance out the ship. It's nonsense. I don't care that nos can cripple you. Nos will cripple any ship. That doesn't balance a ** thing. All it takes is a second or two for you to be out of nos range, and no, that is not long enough to kill you except in extreme circumstances. I don't care what your tanking limitations are. It takes you half a second to get out of range, and you can fly faster than missiles. And definitely don't give me any crap about any ship being able to fly that fast if you put the right gear and implants together. Everyone knows that's nonsense. The WCS nerf will not fix the problem with Vagabonds. You'll still have every half-wit lamer with too much money to spend soloing against fleets with little or no risk. Fix the speed problem. Then there will be some vague balance. This post is too true it's annoying how ALL of my friends trains up jsut to fly one. It's ridiculous. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:54:00 - [4] Originally by: Old Geeza Huginns and Rapiers The Vagabond is an excellent solo/skirmish ship but gets less and less useful as the numbers of people in a gang increase. Ships that are very good solo (Dominix, Vagabond, Ishtar, Pilgrim and so on) usually require multiple ships to counter them when they are alone, as they excel at 1v1s and skirmishing. Not every ship is supposed to be counterable in a 1v1 situation at all times. If you get the Vagabond webbed, you can kill it pretty easily as it doesn't have the slots to web back (unless it's using an armour tank, in which case it won't have hax speed). Let's say we have a gang of 10 vs 10, vagabonds vs. and other hac, who would win? I'm pretty sure the vagabond pilots capable of getting out of their when reaching hull. "usually require": True but it can be done[b/], however not in hells chance as hard as it is to kill a vagabond, thats what makes it overpowered, it's just TOO fast. And when you realize you need a [b]SPECIAL ship to kill one then it is indeed overpowered. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Haggis Maker	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:54:00 - [5] So you want to kill the only plus point a Vaga has??? Compared to most Hac's it has a poor tank, poor damage and now you want to do away with its speed. You are aware you are going to be flamed to hell and back. Are you telling me it is impossible to kill a vaga? If so then 200mil is bloody cheap. If you want change, you are going to have to post something a bit more concrete than your only reason being you cannot kill it.
Iteken Hotori Minmatar GTE Corp	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:54:00 - [6] Lucky it's a minnie ship therefore needs to be nerfed if it's good at soemthing. I presume it'd be fine if it was Caldari or Gallente,a s they are supposed to be solo-uber-pwners ? One single ship, one extremely expensive ship that takes time and effort to get into and working right for you, perfectly fills the Minmatar design philosophy... And you want it nerfed, because of that...... No. Warning: May contain flaming, trolling, swearing, typos, crimes against grammar, obscure reference to old films, in jokes, rambling, ranting and references to EvE.
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:55:00 - [7] i personally don't see any problems with the vaga. it is a very vulnerable ship and pops ridiculously easily when caught which is 1 hell of a risk with that much isk. some ppl seem to think that something is imbalanced because it's combat style is different to other races. the dmg output from the vaga used how it is is not that great remember. it's a hit and run ship. in the thick of battle it can die quite quick if not piloted carefully. DE
Mallick Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:55:00 - [8] I agree to that a Vagabond should be a fast ship. But seeing Vagabonds going 6-8 km/s is RIDICILOUS! Most interceptors have problems to even reach that speed, yet alone being able to run it forever. Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Mallick Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Haggis Maker So you want to kill the only plus point a Vaga has??? Compared to most Hac's it has a poor tank, poor damage and now you want to do away with its speed. You are aware you are going to be flamed to hell and back. Are you telling me it is impossible to kill a vaga? If so then 200mil is bloody cheap. If you want change, you are going to have to post something a bit more concrete than your only reason being you cannot kill it. You need to get within 10km of a Vagabond, and have at least 3 webifiers to stop it. Now fitting 3 webifiers pretty much gimps your setup, and to get in range of the Vagabond is a totally different story. The Vagabond can orbit at 15km EASILY and just MWD away whenever it feels like. BALANCED FOR SURE! Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:58:00 - [10] Edited by: Kaeten on 13/11/2006 13:59:03 Originally by: Iteken Hotori Lucky it's a minnie ship therefore needs to be nerfed if it's good at soemthing. I presume it'd be fine if it was Caldari or Gallente,a s they are supposed to be solo-uber-pwners ? One single ship, one extremely expensive ship that takes time and effort to get into and working right for you, perfectly fills the Minmatar design philosophy... And you want it nerfed, because of that...... No. It's too fast, reduce the speed and we will all be happy. And about other races hacs, if I was to shoot lets say ishtar/cerbus/zealot with my domi i'd pwn em straight up, you know why? because first off they are slow, second off they require cap to work (not cerbus) and third some of the ships need to be close to do anything, a vagabond can sit at 20km and shoot his drones or whatever, nos will not affect it either. that's another reason why speed is making it too powerful. That mixed with the fact that autocannons are ranged close quarter guns and not to forget being able to bail whenever he she likes. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment

Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Haggis Maker So you want to kill the only plus point a Vaga has??? Compared to most Hac's it has a poor tank, poor damage and now you want to do away with its speed. You are aware you are going to be flamed to hell and back. Are you telling me it is impossible to kill a vaga? If so then 200mil is bloody cheap. If you want change, you are going to have to post something a bit more concrete than your only reason being you cannot kill it. why is it 200mill einstien? Because everyone wants one isn't it? Lack of the BPO's don't make this problem easier. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Talo Momoe Caldari Messerschmitt Shipyards The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Old Geeza Not every ship is supposed to be counterable in a 1v1 situation at all times. If you get the Vagabond webbed, you can kill it pretty easily as it doesn't have the slots to web back (unless it's using an armour tank, in which case it won't have hax speed). I'm not concerned with 1v1. When a Vagabond can jump into a system where the gate is camped by a 30-ship fleet, all of whom have their weapons and scrams and webbers primed and are paying attention, and can get away just because it's fast enough to fly out of range in under two seconds, there is a severe problem. This just happened last night. You can't hunt the things down, because one person is always more nimble than a fleet, and if only a few ships get to the Vagabond, it'll nearly always win, or at least get away. You have to apply three or four webbers to a Vagabond to slow it down enough, and because webbers have such short range, the chance that you'll get enough ships close enough to do that is basically zero.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 13:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Mallick I agree to that a Vagabond should be a fast ship. But seeing Vagabonds going 6-8 km/s is RIDICILOUS! Most interceptors have problems to even reach that speed, yet alone being able to run it forever. Thank you ma man. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Ruze No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:03:00 - [14] The Vagabond is not overpowered. It DOES have weaknesses, pretty viable ones, too. For example, get a hit on the d-mned thing and it's done for. The same can be said about most of the top-rate ships, to be honest. When they are used in the manner that they are intended, they can be amazing. It's the player that makes the ship. Don't change the ship to suit the lowest-common denomitator player. Genesis Project
Raaki The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:06:00 - [15] Quote: There are going to be a lot of Vagabond pilots replying to this claiming all sorts of weaknesses that supposedly balance out the ship. It's nonsense. Why reply if anything we say is nonsense anyway.
Haggis Maker	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Mallick Originally by: Haggis Maker So you want to kill the only plus point a Vaga has??? Compared to most Hac's it has a poor tank, poor damage and now you want to do away with its speed. You are aware you are going to be flamed to hell and back. Are you telling me it is impossible to kill a vaga? If so then 200mil is bloody cheap. If you want change, you are going to have to post something a bit more concrete than your only reason being you cannot kill it. You need to get within 10km of a Vagabond, and have at least 3 webifiers to stop it. Now fitting 3 webifiers pretty much gimps your setup, and to get in range of the Vagabond is a totally different story. The Vagabond can orbit at 15km EASILY and just MWD away whenever it feels like. BALANCED FOR SURE! You are perfectly correct. I must have imagined all the vaga killmails I have been on as by your masterful bit of logic it is IMPOSSIBLE to kill.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Raaki Quote: There are going to be a lot of Vagabond pilots replying to this claiming all sorts of weaknesses that supposedly balance out the ship. It's nonsense. Why reply if anything we say is nonsense anyway. Because yous will be going into a fight blind, post the facts and prove us wrong. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:08:00 - [18] Originally by: DarkElf i personally don't see any problems with the vaga. it is a very vulnerable ship and pops ridiculously easily when caught which is 1 hell of a risk with that much isk. some ppl seem to think that something is imbalanced because it's combat style is different to other races. the dmg output from the vaga used how it is is not that great remember. it's a hit and run ship. in the thick of battle it can die quite quick if not piloted carefully. DE Same goes for my deimos, sacralige too if I was to fly one? Prehaps a cerbus too... Anyship can die quickly if the pilot is a dummy, I hope you didn't thin kyour the only one thinking so. Damage output depends on the guns fitted and the amount of damage mods actully so the damage can be changed... Also It's combat style resembles that of an interceptor. Imagine an interceptor than goes 6km/s with cruiser firepower and the ability to fit stabs. Dream ship? = yes. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:09:00 - [19] Vagas are nice, but hardly uber. To get the most out of them, you need to have a full faction implant set, waste your lows for nanos mids for MWD+Cap Boost and this makes you paper thin and light on damage. Not very hot or uber, now is it. Ok, you still can defeat the T1 variants of the same ship, and run away from most, but that is just not enough, considering the whole package costs you hundreds of millions to billions. It's ok. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Talo Momoe Caldari Messerschmitt Shipyards The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Ruze It's the player that makes the ship. Don't change the ship to suit the lowest-common denomitator player. Classic nonsense from Vagabond apologists. The problem is that the lowest common denominator player is who is flying this ship. They fly it because it's the easiest ship to fly combat with. It takes very little skill to turn on an MWD and jet away from everyone when you get in a sticky situation. It takes very little skill to copy the same setup and implants as every other cookie cutter Vagabond pilot. Other ships require competent piloting and combat skills. This ship is like giving an Uzi to a fourth grader. The Vagabond is the zergling rush of Eve. Any punk can do it and win.

Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Ruze The Vagabond is not overpowered. It DOES have weaknesses, pretty viable ones, too. For example, get a hit on the d-mned thing and it's done for. Didn't know that if you shot at soemthing it goes boom. Originally by: Ruze The same can be said about most of the top-rate ships, to be honest. When they are used in the manner that they are intended, they can be amazing. True however vagabond takes this overboard. Originally by: Ruze It's the player that makes the ship. Don't change the ship to suit the lowest-common denomitator player. I've been trying to find a viable setup and tactic for all my ships, doesn't work liek that. You have the ship first, then u use the ships advatages to your tactics, you can't force a ship to do soemthing it doesn't want to do, for example, my megathron setup for only jamming. Or my raven for mining. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Mallick Originally by: Haggis Maker So you want to kill the only plus point a Vaga has??? Compared to most Hac's it has a poor tank, poor damage and now you want to do away with its speed. You are aware you are going to be flamed to hell and back. Are you telling me it is impossible to kill a vaga? If so then 200mil is bloody cheap. If you want change, you are going to have to post something a bit more concrete than your only reason being you cannot kill it. You need to get within 10km of a Vagabond, and have at least 3 webifiers to stop it. Now fitting 3 webifiers pretty much gimps your setup, and to get in range of the Vagabond is a totally different story. The Vagabond can orbit at 15km EASILY and just MWD away whenever it feels like. BALANCED FOR SURE! That's complete rubbish. 1 web = 90% speed reduction. most vagas do about 4km on average so that makes them go 400m/s. even if they are going at 6km which is easily possible but not common, 1 web = 600m/s so a thorax can easily overtake it. the trick is getting the web on. but they also have to avoid most caldari/missile ships. curse is a definate no no. nos domis are very risky. their list of targets is quite slim. if u wanna talk about overpowered hacs then look at the ishtar. i fly one myself so not complaining at all but i have killed most bs solo in mine due to the nos/ewar/drones tactics that rule currently (til kali :) ) but the vaga is a great ship because it's different. u slow it down and it's useless. DE
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Laboratus Vagas are nice, but hardly uber. To get the most out of them, you need to have a full faction implant set, waste your lows for nanos mids for MWD+Cap Boost and this makes you paper thin and light on damage. Not very hot or uber, now is it. Ok, you still can defeat the T1 variants of the same ship, and run away from most, but that is just not enough, considering the whole package costs you hundreds of millions to billions. It's ok. It's not uber when you can't be caught and can escape in nearly every situation? So you NEED implants for the ship ot work? Why do all my friends paly aobut with it then? Anyway apart from that remark your psot made most sense by far atm. High-Sec/0.0 PvP Recruitment
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Talo Momoe Originally by: Ruze It's the player that makes the ship. Don't change the ship to suit the lowest-common denomitator player. ... It takes very little skill to turn on an MWD and jet away from everyone when you get in a sticky situation. ... You can fit an MWD on any ship and run away... It takes no special ship to do so. Vaga is just the fastest, so it can run away best. Nothing special there... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:15:00 - [25] Originally by: DarkElf That's complete rubbish. 1 web = 90% speed reduction. most vagas do about 4km on average so that makes them go 400m/s. even if they are going at 6km which is easily possible but not common, 1 web = 600m/s so a thorax can easily overtake it. You do know that max speed determines the maximum acceleration a ship can achieve right? Therefore tripple webbing a ship going 6km/s will take forever to stop, especially as the mwd increases it's mass so much the pure inertia will carry it out of web range (faction and special ships excluded ofc). Been there done that, lost my domi, so to say... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Talo Momoe Caldari Messerschmitt Shipyards The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Laboratus Vagas are nice, but hardly uber. To get the most out of them, you need to have a full faction implant set, waste your lows for nanos mids for MWD+Cap Boost and this makes you paper thin and light on damage. Not very hot or uber, now is it. Ok, you still can defeat the T1 variants of the same ship, and run away from most, but that is just not enough, considering the whole package costs you hundreds of millions to billions. It's ok. When your risk of losing the ship is so much lower than any other ship, you can afford to buy these things. Besides, spend that much money on any other ship and you won't end up with the same absurd result.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Kaeten It's not uber when you can't be caught and can escape in nearly every situation? So you NEED implants for the ship ot work? Why do all my friends paly aobut with it then? Anyway apart from that remark your psot made most sense by far atm. Well, you don't "need" them need them, but they improve the performance of the ship to it's optimal. Without them, you can find a domi passing you at the next traffic lights (I've been running into these domis going 3-4km/s lately at gate camps, frustrating things. Escaping interceptors and all...) So, without a snake set it's just half doing it. These are all my humble opinions based on my experiences on the game. Hope it helps. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Talo Momoe When your risk of losing the ship is so much lower than any other ship, you can afford to buy these things. Besides, spend that much money on any other ship and you won't end up with the same absurd result. I agree, the vaga is the best ship in the game for running away, if fitted correctly, but that does not make it the best fighting ship in the game. It makes it a fun ship to fly, as you can just bugger out, when the guy you thought you were skirmishing with brought 10 of his buddies to the set. An overpowered ability? I don't think so. However, if, in this hypothetical situation a ship with better offencive capabilities was used, the opponent would be dead long before the reinforcements came into play. IMHO. The vaga is ok in 1vs1 and small gangs, but starts to suffer a lot when more ppl join in the fight. It is good in one small aspect of the game, but not uber or even good in all of them, so IMHO, it is ok. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:23:00 - [29] Dont worry. One of the devs said on EveTV this weekend that speedy ships are getting nerfed. He didnt say which ones, but it doesnt take a genius to guess the Vaga is amongst them. Its a shame, it was a really fun ship while it was allowed to be. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 14:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Jim McGregor Dont worry. One of the devs said on EveTV this weekend that speedy ships are getting nerfed. He didnt say which ones, but it doesnt take a genius to guess the Vaga is amongst them. Its a shame, it was a really fun ship while it was allowed to be. Agreed ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.