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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.17 03:25:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: keepiru
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I'm not in any way saying that the nerf was necessary, and I'll be the first to admit it was too much.
Both the Drake and Hurricane got hit with nerfs where they didn't need them, instead of solving the tanking problem.
Last Weeks Signature |
Protunia
Gallente
Horadrim
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Posted - 2006.11.17 03:26:00 -
[122]
wasnt exactly just responding to you :) but the whole whine fest i read through.
look everyone here knew they were over powered and yes based on tests. They nerfed because they felt is was just.
If anyone here feels it was wrong go TEST on the TEST server and bring back the hard cold facts about ALL the new BC's after the changes.
Possibly they will change some thing again?? Either way I would much rather have them error on the side of making them less effective than over powered when they come to TQ.
At least then they can fixed without people abusing the set up before hand.
My Character Stats |
ramptrick
Caldari
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 03:52:00 -
[123]
at last the poxy drake got the nerf, about time im so glad about that was way way to over powered.. good day to be anything else than sucky caldari!!!
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Daniel Jackson
Caldari
Black Force
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Posted - 2006.11.17 03:57:00 -
[124]
Originally by: ramptrick
at last the poxy drake got the nerf, about time im so glad about that was way way to over powered.. good day to be anything else than sucky caldari!!!
YOU SIR SHOULD BE SHOT AND YOUR CORPSE BE ABUSED
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.17 04:01:00 -
[125]
I can already tell you what the results are.
The "overpowered" uber-tanked Hurricane AC setup is just as overpowered, since its tank (which was the whole issue vs. other gunboat BCs) hasn't decreased any.
The artillery hurricane is nerfed into worthlessness.
The drake is a waste of space, just like the ferox.
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Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it! |
Grammer
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Posted - 2006.11.17 04:33:00 -
[126]
sry ccp you went WAY! to far. For once we were going to get a ship that could do pvp. I guess i am going back to training Gall ship.
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violator2k5
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 05:04:00 -
[127]
i guess the devs / gms were drunk when they decided that this was best for the eve community.
if you dont want the drake to have rof bonus fine but at least give it a all round missile dmg bonus.... kinetic dmg is a jk
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.17 06:03:00 -
[128]
Never underestimate whining power of HAC/CBC BPO owners...
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 06:56:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Grammer
sry ccp you went WAY! to far. For once we were going to get a ship that could do pvp. I guess i am going back to training Gall ship.
If "by do pvp" you mean "can wtfpwn 2 or 3 ships of its size" then you're right.
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MECTO
Xenobytes
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.17 07:42:00 -
[130]
good change
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford
In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Faricar
Caldari
Knightmares Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:07:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Faricar on 17/11/2006 08:11:56
SOLUTION
Change the Bonuses to:
5% to shield resistance per skill level, 5% to Rate of Fire of heavy assault missiles
If you restrict it to HAMs then people have less of a choice over missiles but still get then bonus if they are willing to sacrifice something...
PROBLEM SOLVED
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Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:16:00 -
[132]
What is the drawback to HAM again? Is it just range, honestly not sure, but some guy was hitting me with them in his drake at 60km  Or was that just lag?
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What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:21:00 -
[133]
Also, haven't read the five pages, not going to bother. I will just that I fought a drake, that was setup for full tech 2 tank before the nerf, and there was not a single minmatar ship I could field short of a BS that could kill it. And I have BC 5 and all tech 2 stuff yada yada... I even took the time to build a projectile damage and rof rig for my hurricane, and still didnt make a dent in its shields before I was dead. And that was with 7 tech 2 425's and 2 gyro's. Also had 10k armor with 55+ resistances across the board. The drake just did way to much dmg and tanking before the nerf. (though limiting you to kinetic is sort of lame I agree)
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What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Khan Farshatok
Caldari
Occam's Razor Combine
Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:21:00 -
[134]
 Feck this -back to Raven. I don't give a s**t about Tier2 BC's anymore.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:22:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Ed Gein
What is the drawback to HAM again? Is it just range, honestly not sure, but some guy was hitting me with them in his drake at 60km Or was that just lag?
If HAMs have a sacrifice, I don't know what it is. Jav HAMs hit out to 60k just like you said.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:27:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Ed Gein
What is the drawback to HAM again? Is it just range, honestly not sure, but some guy was hitting me with them in his drake at 60km Or was that just lag?
If HAMs have a sacrifice, I don't know what it is. Jav HAMs hit out to 60k just like you said.
harder to fit, worse explosive radius/velocity over heavy missiles
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:30:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Ed Gein
What is the drawback to HAM again? Is it just range, honestly not sure, but some guy was hitting me with them in his drake at 60km Or was that just lag?
If HAMs have a sacrifice, I don't know what it is. Jav HAMs hit out to 60k just like you said.
harder to fit, worse explosive radius/velocity over heavy missiles
Gee, life is hard. Can you change medium blasters to only have those sacrifices?
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:32:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Ed Gein
What is the drawback to HAM again? Is it just range, honestly not sure, but some guy was hitting me with them in his drake at 60km Or was that just lag?
If HAMs have a sacrifice, I don't know what it is. Jav HAMs hit out to 60k just like you said.
harder to fit, worse explosive radius/velocity over heavy missiles
Gee, life is hard. Can you change medium blasters to only have those sacrifices?
sometimes one should remove head from anus and look at overall ships rather than just the weapons
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:37:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
sometimes one should remove head from anus and look at overall ships rather than just the weapons
Funnily enough, that's exactly what just happened. The result? Nerfs. :)
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meppa
Black Omega Security
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:40:00 -
[140]
To be absolutely honest, restricting some races more to their preferred damage type is just what is needed. It will force people to think about thier tanks more and make certain tanks stronger against certain races. Amarrian point of view on changing missile rof to kinetic damage boost is excellent. Use kinetic if you want highest dps out. Next i would like to see 10% drone damage on gallente to be changed 10% drone thermal damage.
"...but come on, dropping the rate of fire bonus for kinetic missile damage?" with same logic all amarrian ships (get bonus just to em or em/thermal) are nerfed to death. You will adopt and deal kinetic, which will change focus of some tanks. Kinetic and thermic are nice allrounders on shield and armour while em and expl are more against just shield or armour. Further more on against npc:s imo every race should counter best their natural opponent, which is guristas with caldari which means kinetic damage while there are other factions that are far more harder to deal with.
You still got your raven with universal bonus. Live with it and win with skill, not superior equipment.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:42:00 -
[141]
Originally by: meppa
To be absolutely honest, restricting some races more to their preferred damage type is just what is needed. It will force people to think about thier tanks more and make certain tanks stronger against certain races. Amarrian point of view on changing missile rof to kinetic damage boost is excellent. Use kinetic if you want highest dps out. Next i would like to see 10% drone damage on gallente to be changed 10% drone thermal damage.
Right after drones become invulnerable to dmg.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:49:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor
sometimes one should remove head from anus and look at overall ships rather than just the weapons
Funnily enough, that's exactly what just happened. The result? Nerfs. :)
i'm sorry but when you fitted a 4x lrg extender 2x invul field drake on sisi vs an armor tanked turreted ship with a mwd/scrambler/web and the former loses it's not because it's not as powerful, its because the drake was fitted with a rather unrealistic setup for tranq pvp aka ep33n setup and not a real setup that works, like one with mwd/scrambler/web, yanno a setup where you can actually pin people down and get a kill
the drake was overpowered, so was the hurricane (it still is very flexible in fitting with ACs, tho), -1 launcher -1 turret sure, thats fine.. the bonus changes kill the drake, i know you are a biased caldari hating kind of guy but honestly putting that kin dmg bonus on missile ships flat out kills them, which is why people still see the raven as the only beacon of hope for pvping as caldari
all our other ships we get are better off mission running for caldari navy than they are for pvp, kinetic dmg bonus just kills us, rate of fire is obviously a much better bonus and allows for more versatility, something missile ships are supposed to have, which is why launchers don't dish out the DPS that lasers, hybrids, and proj do
don't want to believe it, fine, dont, but trust me in pvp i avoid kinetic like the plague esp vs t2 ships which all have elavated kinetic resist sans minmatar
the drake could be a nice ship, a nice alternative to the raven in pvp, if it had ROF, now it's just a lame duck like the caracal, hell ferox can actually get a better all-rounder setup with launchers and dish out pretty close to the DPS the drake does.. not bad for a railboat? 
and yes, i am fully aware that turrets for the most part do 2 damage types, but that's right, TWO damage types that is much better than just getting a bonus to 1 damage type.. hell hybrids do get high thermal damage ammo too yanno, theyre just not straight up kinetic anymore with t2 ammos
wts clue: much easier to tank 1 damage type than it is 2
you wanna buy one?
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:57:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
the drake could be a nice ship, a nice alternative to the raven in pvp, if it had ROF, now it's just a lame duck like the caracal, hell ferox can actually get a better all-rounder setup with launchers and dish out pretty close to the DPS the drake does.. not bad for a railboat?
I think I discovered the flaw in your thinking. Battlecruisers aren't supposed to be an alternative for situations that call for a battleship.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:00:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Ed Gein
Also, haven't read the five pages, not going to bother. I will just that I fought a drake, that was setup for full tech 2 tank before the nerf, and there was not a single minmatar ship I could field short of a BS that could kill it. And I have BC 5 and all tech 2 stuff yada yada... I even took the time to build a projectile damage and rof rig for my hurricane, and still didnt make a dent in its shields before I was dead. And that was with 7 tech 2 425's and 2 gyro's. Also had 10k armor with 55+ resistances across the board. The drake just did way to much dmg and tanking before the nerf. (though limiting you to kinetic is sort of lame I agree)
where was youre target painter during this ?
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:12:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor
the drake could be a nice ship, a nice alternative to the raven in pvp, if it had ROF, now it's just a lame duck like the caracal, hell ferox can actually get a better all-rounder setup with launchers and dish out pretty close to the DPS the drake does.. not bad for a railboat?
I think I discovered the flaw in your thinking. Battlecruisers aren't supposed to be an alternative for situations that call for a battleship.
I did't say the Drake had to be as powerful as the Raven, but it could have been a nice ship to mess around in being faster and smaller than the Raven and able to put down decent DPS with HAMs.
Now it's just a crappy mission running ship, the Caldari Navy must be thrilled another ship can join its ranks to chain Guristas 24/7.
Once again Caldari are big time losers in the battlecruiser department, the Ferox is a joke, now the Drake is a joke, skip battlecruisers skills folks, not worth it if you are Caldari (maybe Nighthawk won't suck with ROF).
Omen to Harbinger is an incredible leap in power, Caracal to Drake? LOL.
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:15:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 17/11/2006 09:17:45
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Omen to Harbinger is an incredible leap in power, Caracal to Drake? LOL.
Caracal = what? 12,000 shields? Drake = 30,000+. Caracal = 5 launcher. Drake = 6. Caracal = 2 lowslots. Drake = what? 3 or 4?
Looks like an incredible leap in power to me.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:18:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Omen to Harbinger is an incredible leap in power, Caracal to Drake? LOL.
Caracal = what? 12,000 shields? Drake = 30,000+. Caracal = 5 launcher. Drake = 6. Caracal = 2 lowslots. Drake = what? 4 or 5?
Looks like an incredible leap in power to me.
Wow you sure are the expert in Drakes since you don't even know the slot layout on them, its 4, so yanno.
Drakes don't have 30k shield, what are you smoking, seriously. You can get like 24k if you fit nothing but extenders and power diagnostic units, hint: NOT A GOOD PVP SETUP.
Hey guys nerf Apoc plz, it has 90k armor i fit a bunch of 1600mm plates on it and its unbeatable and i ran out of cap trying to kill it lol!!!!!!
Oh wait..
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:21:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Wow you sure are the expert in Drakes since you don't even know the slot layout on them, its 4, so yanno.
Drakes don't have 30k shield, what are you smoking, seriously. You can get like 24k if you fit nothing but extenders and power diagnostic units, hint: NOT A GOOD PVP SETUP.
I flew it on the test server about 5 times and wtfpwned everything I came across. That was enough for me to quit flying it.
And 30k shields is easy. Try some core defence field extender rigs and quit being a noob.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:22:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Omen to Harbinger is an incredible leap in power, Caracal to Drake? LOL.
This might be because the Omen is far far far far....far far far worse the the Caracal 
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:22:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Wow you sure are the expert in Drakes since you don't even know the slot layout on them, its 4, so yanno.
Drakes don't have 30k shield, what are you smoking, seriously. You can get like 24k if you fit nothing but extenders and power diagnostic units, hint: NOT A GOOD PVP SETUP.
I flew it on the test server about 5 times and wtfpwned everything I came across. That was enough for me to quit flying it.
And 30k shields is easy. Try some core defence field extender rigs and quit being a noob.
i'd rather fit rigs that added rof and dmg so i could actually kill someone instead of circle jerking to shield hp
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari
Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship
Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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