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Megathron vs Hyperion (a straight comparison)

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Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:06:00 - [31] I may have been wrong on the agility effecting speed part, but the extra capacitor is worth as much as 3 cap boosters, although after the MWD is added in then this bonus is nullified. I can see how it's quite useless versus the Megathron (it's too similar). Last Weeks Signature
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:10:00 - [32] same mass? GREAT! Big celestis?...lachesis has 7 slots with damp ability...imo does the job fine...CCP if those guys are saying the truth...ship looks cool but thats not worth it.Hypecrap
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:57:00 - [33] OP: How can this comparison by "straight" when it's clearly ***** - the Hyperion and Megathron are sooo in bed with each other. But yes, it is kind of lame how they took a Megathron and essentially added tier 3 stats on it and changed one of the bonuses. - EVE is sick.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:05:00 - [34] how about % 5 damage %5 rof ? too much cap?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:07:00 - [35] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 09:12:52 How i would fix the hype: - Decrease locking range further - Change mid slot to low slot - Decrease signature - Reduce mass - Change Rep bonus into mwd cap size bonus like on the vindi OR cap booster size reduction while in cargo bonus OR just a cargo size bonus. - Add 25m3 drone bay - Add 1000 to 1500 pg Considering this thing is supposed to cost 170 mill-ish isk, it should be better then a tier 2 tbh... Looks alone arent worth the extra 60 mill Now Hype is better then mega, but cant go long range forcing it to be a short/med range ship while the mega can can go both, but less efficient though with a cheaper price tag. Originally by: Akiman how about % 5 damage %5 rof ? too much cap? Rof would be bad, blaster ships are going to be running out of cap boosters more often, higher rof means more cap usage means your fight ends even earlier. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:22:00 - [36] Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. You can't refit in-flight, have to refit in station, which means people will have the Hyperion as a blaster boat, and train Rokh as fleet ship. Megathron won't be used. As it is right now, you've got two ships stamping on each other's feet. They're good at the same thing, but slightly differently good at it. Not big enough different to merit deeper thought on the subject (just chose one of the bloody things and fit it like a blaster boat and you'll do fine). In the end, the problem is that both ships are blaster boats and that the Hyperion fails miserably at being inventive. It's a Megathron Mk.II, which is the problem (everyone knows that with Gallente designs it won't be good until Mk.V at which point it'll be seriously overpowered) -1 low slot, +1 mid slot, -2 turrets, +2 to 4 launchers +150 CPU, -1,000 PG remove tanking bonus add dampener bonus And there you have it, a new shiny exciting Gallente ship that doesn't stomp anyone on the foot, is decidedly dangerous, but doesn't outdamage the Megathron. An alternative is to remove the turret bonus and do nothing with the hardpoints and powergrid. - EVE is sick.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Aeaus - Range is worse to prevent it from becoming the "uber sniper," but this will happen anyway (nice agility + decent damage = win for hit and run) - Speed is a factor of mass and agility, the Hyperion has significantly more agility (similar to the Vindicator) so it will both be faster and more agile, which is quite important in a blaster-boat. - Megathrons can fit Ions with less PW, the Hyperion should have no real issue with it. 1) Get on the test server. Its easy to fit a nice sniper setup which locks out to 240km. 2) Get on the test server. Its really not much more agile than the megathron. 3) The Hyperion has 8 slots, not 7. It can't fit anything apart from electrons easily.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:43:00 - [38] Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/11/2006 09:46:56 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. It wouldn't. Why are people forgetting that this thing costs 75m MORE than the Megathron? That matters. Most players in EVE don't have unlimited ISK. Its perfectly reasonable that this ship should be MUCH BETTER than its Tier 2 friends. There is a distinct lack of courage from the Devs in this respect. So, lets be clear: Either this ship needs to be BETTER than its tier 2 counterparts, OR it needs to be different (Big Celestis). Neither isnt good enough.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/11/2006 09:46:56 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. It wouldn't. Why are people forgetting that this thing costs 75m MORE than the Megathron? That matters. Most players in EVE don't have unlimited ISK. Its perfectly reasonable that this ship should be MUCH BETTER than its Tier 2 friends. There is a distinct lack of courage from the Devs in this respect. So, lets be clear: Either this ship needs to be BETTER than its tier 2 counterparts, OR it needs to be different (Big Celestis). Neither isnt good enough. I'm with you on this one. The megathron is good enough at blasters to make it not worth paying the extra money for the hyperion. I would LOVE for it to be a damp platform.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:54:00 - [40] Double damage bonus, 40km base locking range, good agility/mass for mwding close, enough pg to just barely squeeze on 8x neutron blaster ii's. Now that'd be a blasterboat :D. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama

Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:10:00 - [41] My hyperion would be; Base speed must be 135 m/sec (need speed, its a blaster ship) Mass must be 100.000.000 kg (if u fit a 1600 plate this will be equal to megathron...Fair enough...Maybe) Must have agility... (manuverability,transversal tracking,etc.) 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) (its a blaster ship,she doesnt want more drone bay she needs speed.Remove 25 m3 drone bay,add more bigger thrusters) Decreased lock range 30 km (-) , increased scan resolution 150 (+) Now you see i give a penalty for every boost for being fair. (its a blaster ship,thinking bout using it in fleet combat is out of concept and question, therefore more reduced locking range for increased locking time,you cant have a hit from 60km anyway) (About the speed, you can say we get help from minmatar scientists and manufacturers...Like amarr get help from caldari) Akiman
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:10:00 - [42] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 10:12:08 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. You can't refit in-flight, have to refit in station, which means people will have the Hyperion as a blaster boat, and train Rokh as fleet ship. Megathron won't be used. As it is right now, you've got two ships stamping on each other's feet. They're good at the same thing, but slightly differently good at it. Not big enough different to merit deeper thought on the subject (just chose one of the bloody things and fit it like a blaster boat and you'll do fine). In the end, the problem is that both ships are blaster boats and that the Hyperion fails miserably at being inventive. It's a Megathron Mk.II, which is the problem (everyone knows that with Gallente designs it won't be good until Mk.V at which point it'll be seriously overpowered) -1 low slot, +1 mid slot, -2 turrets, +2 to 4 launchers +150 CPU, -1,000 PG remove tanking bonus add dampener bonus And there you have it, a new shiny exciting Gallente ship that doesn't stomp anyone on the foot, is decidedly dangerous, but doesn't outdamage the Megathron. An alternative is to remove the turret bonus and do nothing with the hardpoints and powergrid. 180 mill for something an Arazu can do while its being an uber scout? Sure it would be the logical thing to do but boring too. Sure Gallente could use a sensor damp bs but it should cost the same as a scorp. Plus id rather see such an awesome looking ship become a blastership. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain Tbh 10m/s extra isnt worth the drone, hell, 50 ms extra isnt worth the drone. I've never problems getting my bthron into range, its like a train, it takes a bit to get going but once its on a roll the only thing stopping it will be another train. Id be more then happy to have its base speed set to 125 if it means 5 heavy drones. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:31:00 - [46] i agree too :) . but i think devs wont do such a thing : \ so im trying to fit that ship like they want to be and getting a superb fast blaster bs is fun in theorically.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Akiman so im trying to fit that ship like they want to be Judging by the hyperion they dont even know what they want it to be ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:20:00 - [48] Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 17/11/2006 18:21:39 Problem with this comparison is your not looking at the wider picture as others mentioned. The other 3 tiers are super-heavy weights, bigger and much slower so getting them into range isn't a problem. I'm just going to look at the weight and speed which I have the biggest problem with it being increased. Agility Looking at existing ships: Typhoon = 1E8 Megathron = Hyperion = Tempest = 1.025E8 Dominix = 1.05E8 Apocalypse = 1.075E8 Armageddon = 1.1E8 Raven = 1.1E8 Scorpion = 1.1E8 So saying it needs more agility is just rediculus as its already one of the most agile BS's with heavier ships being added. Speed Typhoon = 150m/s Tempest = 140m/s Hyperion = 130m/s Aramageddon = Megathron = 125m/s Dominix = 120m/s Raven = Scorpion = Apocalypse = 115m/s So as you see here, the only ships quicker than it are the Minmatar ships. With the 3 other Kali BS's being even bigger and heavier thats 2 BS's quicker than it and 9 slower.... Problem is the Mega is such a good Blaster ship if you make a better version (lighter/quicker) with the same firepower it will catch ANYTHING and the disadvantage of blasters (low range) is gone. What I would do... Well i'd scrap the design personally. It's being squeezed into a hole that really isn't there. Make it a sensor dampener ship, Gallente are meant to be blasters and drones, not long range. Sensor dampeners are designed to make people fight closer... its the perfect ship for the tier 3 as it typifies what gallente do. What i'd do, in my dreams Give it to the minny's instead of the Maelstrom and make that tanking bonus a speed bonus! since ac's with only 1 damage bonus won't do uber damage. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :) Why pay upwards of 200 mil for an overgrown Celestis, when you can pay 65 mil for a Scorpion and be just as effective? ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:42:00 - [50] Originally by: Imode Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :) Why pay upwards of 200 mil for an overgrown Celestis, when you can pay 65 mil for a Scorpion and be just as effective? Man, every time you guys list a price for the hyperion it gets higher. What's next? 300 million?

Commander Nikolas Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:24:00 - [51] Just give it 19,000 - 21,000 PG and it would be a great ship... like the thoer tier 3's
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Imode Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :) Why pay upwards of 200 mil for an overgrown Celestis, when you can pay 65 mil for a Scorpion and be just as effective? Man, every time you guys list a price for the hyperion it gets higher. What's next? 300 million? Okay, sorry 170 mil. The fact still stands, you can buy nearly 3 scorpions for the same price, unless they do something crazy, like make the Hyperion into a tier 1 ewar boat, make the dominix a tier 2 drone, and make the mega the tier 3 and adjust all the prices to match. I will explode if they make my mega cost 170 mil. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:37:00 - [53] Hype vs Mega Both pilots are near enough maxed on skills, infact Dave10 has large blaster spec 5. Oh and for an even easier victory (especailly now that there has been an increase in cap) I could have fitted a multi in the midslot, they still work fine tbh. (done alot of testing and a nos/jam domi will pwn a hype with ease, have fraps of this too if needed ) Hype > Mega.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.18 08:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Butter Dog Considering its 75m more than the Mega, its a joke. The mega is a better blasterboat because of the combination of its tracking bonus and the infamous (and ridiculous) Null tracking nerf. Depsite the armor rep bonus, the mega can fit a HP-boosted plate in its 7th low, and tank better. The Mega and Hype are about as good as each other at sniping. Wow. So we have a ship which is WORSE than the mega for blasting, and equal at sniping. I think I'll keep the extra 75m, thanks. hint: boost the grid so we can use nice blasters and the repping bonus (its an Electron-only bonus), increase the speed, reduce the mass further... and THEN we might consider using one over a mega Until then, you tell me - whats the ***ing point? We do people insist on re-stating this idea that the Megathron can somehow tank better? - the Hyperion can fully tank* the damage from a 7x Ion II Megathron using L Void, two damage modules and 3% implants (drones not included of course). 1 vs. 1 Megathron vs Hyperion favours the latter, the former simply cannot do enough damage to kill the Hyperion before it's HP-reliant tank fails. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:22:00 - [55] Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:26:27 I hate to say it, but I'm loving the idea of the hyperion as an oversized celestis.... an oversized celestis with a 20%/level damp range bonus At least that way gallente gets something good AND new. We have a strictly shortranged BS: dominix (which tanks like hell, for the record). We have a shortrange blasterboat that can dominate any range with the right fit (well, before that rokh thing came along), megathron. And now we have another shortrange BS, nothing new, and nothing special above the megathron. 8th turret would make for some extra punch setup as a sniper, but we already have a sniper, one turret with the same number of slots for tracking+damage mods and sensor boosters isn't really a good end result for countless hours/days/weeks/months of ship design. What we don't have, is a longrange e-war superpimp. Gimme!
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:34:00 - [56] Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:36:27 Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:35:32 Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain Not that one, no. Any specialized blaster pilot can tell you the same thing, you need every last bit of damage you can muster to live through most fights. The key to extreme shortrange blaster combat is simply overwhelming the opponent with damage before he can put enough damage into you to pose a real threat. Not being able to field a full flight of 4 (yes, i said 4) heavy drones with 5 lights in reserve (tacklers, pesky little buggers) is an unrealistic disadvantage in my opinion. You're talking about sacrificing 63 DPS from one ogre II to be able to dispatch of a single interceptor that is likely to get you killed, or kill you himself given the time, location, and ammunition. No thank you. I'll stick to my mega, thank to very much. When the hyperion is an improved blastership (good luck with that), as opposed to the same thing with no real advantage and several disadvantages, I'll fly it.
Dave10 Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:38:00 - [57] Originally by: nexvis Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:36:27 Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:35:32 Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain Not that one, no. Any specialized blaster pilot can tell you the same thing, you need every last bit of damage you can muster to live through most fights. The key to extreme shortrange blaster combat is simply overwhelming the opponent with damage before he can put enough damage into you to pose a real threat. Not being able to field a full flight of 4 (yes, i said 4) heavy drones with 5 lights in reserve (tacklers, pesky little buggers) is an unrealistic disadvantage in my opinion. You're talking about sacrificing 63 DPS from one ogre II to be able to dispatch of a single interceptor that is likely to get you killed, or kill you himself given the time, location, and ammunition. No thank you. I'll stick to my mega, thank to very much. When the hyperion is an improved blastership (good luck with that), as opposed to the same thing with no real advantage and several disadvantages, I'll fly it. Watch the video and actually test it. The megat's weak tank isnt enough to hold up in Kali as you are fighting ships with effectively 100-200k armor(look at the abadon), and mega vs hyp the megat will lose. The fact that the hyp can fit an 8th gun comfortably now also makes up for the single drone loss.
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:51:00 - [58] Edited by: Mikelio Raijan on 18/11/2006 12:54:52 Oh and I wasn't even using repair rigs in the Video of Hype vs Mega, if I had been my armour tank wouldn't have even been slipping. Ohmygawd that's like just what Gabe said! (I <3 Gabe) So in closing, quit trying to take the better blasterboat and turn it into some kind of sad damp ship. (presumably that we will end up fitting ECM to anyway) Edit: For typo's
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:07:00 - [59] I'd say: Remove the armor rep bonus, give it either a tracking bonus or another damage bonus. Make it faster and 1mil kg (ie, Typhoon stats). More grid to actually fit stuff, less lock range (a lot less), more signature resolution. Could prolly do with less cpu if -1 mid +1 low. Then reword Mega to lose the tracking bonus, give it armor resist and otherwise keep it the same. Then finally switch the models so we have a good looking Blasterboat and a butt-ugly fleet ship. Voila, fixed. Sorta.
baaaaal	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:15:00 - [60] what font is that at the start of the video? did u guys test how much tracking disruptors hurt the hyperion? tbh i really dont see where i would ever get to use a hyperion pvp is never in small numbers anymore for me so unless your a pirate in some small gank sqaud i dont see where anyone would use one. if your going to use a blastership might aswell use a mega and save your self 60-70mil btw whats hyperion like vs domi with nos or neuts?



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