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Megathron vs Hyperion (a straight comparison)

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Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:20:00 - [1] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 16/11/2006 18:22:08 lets look at the facts... Megathron 100m isk > Hyperion > 176m isk bonuses Megathron 5% tracking pl > Hyperion 7.5 rep boost per amount fittings same number of slots, the hyperion has slightly more grid and cpu... attributes with the previous promises of a fast, agile blaster boat, the hyperion can do nothing but dissapoint. It has the same mass as the thron, but with 15% more hit points but a wopping 21% increased sig! It's targeting systems are fubur with this artifical targeting range and higher scan res. It also has a lower average recharge rate (with peak recharge probably the same) It's drone bay is also now the size of a ravens. Without the tracking bonus, the 50% boost to fight durations and with the nerf of null and void ammo, this ship is actually a total waste of time. On the plus side, it looks like it'll be an awesome shield tanker... I think it's passive recharge rate is way better than he rokh... lol ----------------------------- this is a very broken ship. my suggestion, start from scratch, a ship which is worth the price of a domi and a megathron combined should actually be worth more than scrap metal Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
katz3 Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:35:00 - [2] yea, hyperion kinda sucks compared to a mega : / ___________________
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:04:00 - [3] Originally by: katz3 yea, hyperion kinda sucks compared to a mega : / I was totally oblivious to the extent of the suckage, until now... It's just a broken concept for a world which has changed. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc. THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:26:00 - [4] tracking bonus on mega is 7.5% right? and raven has 75m¦ drone bay right? anyway, i just dont see the point of using that ship at all. wooooopeeeedooo a whole 5ms faster, dang!!!! JUST ROCKS!!!!! YEAHH!! oh and the new cap on ships. i dont get it. bigger cap, but recharge is upped... bonus on the tier 3 amarr and minnie bs is off. but this WHOLE ship is off. /me sits down and waits for some fanboy comments.
Aypse Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:41:00 - [5] Last I knew the Hype's pg was 15250 and 590cpu. When did this increase to 15750/600?
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:34:00 - [6] You marked Scan Resolution in red on the hyperion, it should be green as higher scan resolution means you lock the target faster. So the hyperion is better than the mega in that stat not worse.
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:48:00 - [7] You do know posting images in a forum topic is a sin right? On another note, yeah they hyperion kinda feels like the ship that got lost. On one hand it has the potential to be an insane armor tank, but its lacking the slots, it could be a great blaster boat but its lacking the speed, and it could be a better fleet ship except its lacking the fitting. ----
Segmentor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:57:00 - [8] No real point of flying it atm. Fast and agile blaster ship with better defensive capabillities but smaller dronebay? The last two things are true, the first two are utter bull$h1t. ---
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:15:00 - [9] been saying this all along... The Hype needs more DPS and more agility if it's going to be a better blaster ship than the Mega. Look at the Vindi. It does everything right: more acceleration, more cap, more DPS, more flexibility. Because I said so...
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:49:00 - [10] It desperatly needs: < cap rechare time < shield > armour > sensor str > speed < target range -----

murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail It desperatly needs: < cap rechare time < shield > armour > sensor str > speed < target range ayup. more grid for bigger guns maybe? Because I said so...
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:58:00 - [12] the hyper is better at head on gank 8 turrets, so mega is just under that but it can use a one more heavy. mega might be a little worse at gank there. A mega will still be a fleet snipe ship from 37.5% tracking boost at BS5. Hyper will out tank a mega typically from 37.5% more armor recovery. Another mid means another EW unit or passive shield tank.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:52:00 - [13] seems kinda odd. But i guess thats what u get one less EW drone and one more EW slot ( in the mid) so thats kinda netural
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:54:00 - [14] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Ozzie Asrail It desperatly needs: < cap rechare time < shield > armour > sensor str > speed < target range ayup. more grid for bigger guns maybe? Most definately, since you need RCU's to fit ions on it. T1 Ions, w/ AWU 4...if you do something foolish like fit a large rep and a MWD to it. Raptor and Ares Fix
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:57:00 - [15] maybe we need a new subclass of MWD (something that uses less cap but perhaps gives instead of a 1000% speed booost a 400-500% speed boost) could be used for getting to sniper targets quickly but not affect sig radius and cap drain as much
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:08:00 - [16] Considering its 75m more than the Mega, its a joke. The mega is a better blasterboat because of the combination of its tracking bonus and the infamous (and ridiculous) Null tracking nerf. Depsite the armor rep bonus, the mega can fit a HP-boosted plate in its 7th low, and tank better. The Mega and Hype are about as good as each other at sniping. Wow. So we have a ship which is WORSE than the mega for blasting, and equal at sniping. I think I'll keep the extra 75m, thanks. hint: boost the grid so we can use nice blasters and the repping bonus (its an Electron-only bonus), increase the speed, reduce the mass further... and THEN we might consider using one over a mega Until then, you tell me - whats the ****ing point?
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Miss Overlord maybe we need a new subclass of MWD (something that uses less cap but perhaps gives instead of a 1000% speed booost a 400-500% speed boost) could be used for getting to sniper targets quickly but not affect sig radius and cap drain as much WTB: MWD with 1000% speed boost
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:14:00 - [18] Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :)
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:31:00 - [19] Wtf? It is a tier3 battleship, it is bigger then tier1 and tier2. Why dont you compare its agility, speed and mass with the other tier3 battleships? Makes up for a better comparison to be honest. And I personally believe that the tier3 gallente battleship should be a enormous celestis, simply because the megathron is already the gallente blasterboat, just as the raven is the caldari missile ship. Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Imperil Wtf? It is a tier3 battleship, it is bigger then tier1 and tier2. Why dont you compare its agility, speed and mass with the other tier3 battleships? Makes up for a better comparison to be honest. And I personally believe that the tier3 gallente battleship should be a enormous celestis, simply because the megathron is already the gallente blasterboat, just as the raven is the caldari missile ship. after looking at the evidence, i'm starting to agree Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus

Waragha Art of War	Posted - 2006.11.17 00:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Imperil Wtf? It is a tier3 battleship, it is bigger then tier1 and tier2. Why dont you compare its agility, speed and mass with the other tier3 battleships? Makes up for a better comparison to be honest. And I personally believe that the tier3 gallente battleship should be a enormous celestis, simply because the megathron is already the gallente blasterboat, just as the raven is the caldari missile ship. Everyone wants something from it but nobody knows what it is atm Originally by: Trepkos The only difference between GS and NPC's are that GS respawn quicker.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:23:00 - [22] Looks a bit like CCP is too scared to actually give it a role and stats accordingly worthy of it's 75X increased pricetag over the Mega, afraid of it becoming a 'win'-button. HYPErion indeed...
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Tobiaz Looks a bit like CCP is too scared to actually give it a role and stats accordingly worthy of it's 75X increased pricetag over the Mega, afraid of it becoming a 'win'-button. HYPErion indeed... Theres the no brainer damp boat, which I was kinda skeptical about at first (purely because it didn't fit my play style) then I was told it would be an oversided rax with a speed and aglity bonus (yes, i'm one of the dying breed of deimos pilots), The concept from then on got mixed and mangled, resulting with the hash pipe of BS (BS as in bull****) that is the hyperion. The last straw was the realisation that you could buy a hyperion for the price of a domi and a mega... I would actually rather buy a domi and a mega. It's the fact that the tier 3's are being balanced with the tier 2's and tier 1's which is causing most of the problems with there design. They should be given tanking bonuses, fine... But shouldn't they actually be designed with a specific pure concept first? It doesn't seem like the CCP have got the thinking cap on straight (well, thats unless you've seen the rokh) Which is a shame, because they did briliantly with the interdictors and the command ships. just as a reminder to making new ships... 1. Come up with a pure concept... 2. Give it what it needs, slot wise, grid etc to do it 3. .... 4. Profit you've done it before, you can do it again... if you try!! Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 02:47:00 - [24] Honestly, I can't think of a single reason to fly this ship. It works as a blaster boat........almost exactly aswell as a Mega does. It tanks.........not really much better than a Mega does, all told. Its range is worse than a Megathron. Its speed is pretty much the same as the Megathron. Its mass is the same as the Megathron. It costs nearly twice a Megathron. I'm confused ass to why the Hype was ever conceived as a Blaster ship in the first place, seeing as how the Megathron is already perfect at it- it means either it'll be barely any better at it than its cheaper equivalent, or would be massivle unbalanced if it were better. And then it isn't EVEN a good Blaster ship! To do list: 1) Find a job for the Hype. If its dead set on being a Blaster ship, make it a good blaster ship. Plenty of other ideas already otu there. 2) Fix its stats to match. 3) Lower the price- its never going to be as good as the other Tier3s, if its on this path (as mentioned, balancing reasons), so why is it the seecond most expensive BS in the game? Balancing issue is this- the Megathron is already a well balanced Blaster Boat. In fact, some would even claim the Mega is a perfect Blaster Boat- to the degree as to being slightly overpowered. If the Hype is also a balnced Blaster Boat, it'll be quite close to a Megathron, in terms of effectiveness- so being wildly more expensive can't work. If it was good enough over the Blaster Mega to be worth an extra 75mill, it'd be simply too good. -----------------------------------------------
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Patch86 .. I have never truely flown a Megathron serriously into combat, I didn't like it and ended up abandoning it since I could not justify training for Tech II guns which were a requirement at the time I tested it. I'd like to raise some points though. - Range is worse to prevent it from becoming the "uber sniper," but this will happen anyway (nice agility + decent damage = win for hit and run) - Speed is a factor of mass and agility, the Hyperion has significantly more agility (similar to the Vindicator) so it will both be faster and more agile, which is quite important in a blaster-boat. - Megathrons can fit Ions with less PW, the Hyperion should have no real issue with it. However what I will agree on that the tracking is bad (coupled with the null nerf, and the difficultly of getting into a good firing position, this is almost required for a ship to work). As for price, it doesn't really seem that significant to me. The hyperion will be able to get into range faster, do more damage, and take more punishment in the blaster-boat role, and the huge capacitor allows it to run for quite some time. I suspect that blaster-boat pilots will now be choosing between the two. Last Weeks Signature
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.17 04:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Aeaus - Speed is a factor of mass and agility, the Hyperion has significantly more agility (similar to the Vindicator) so it will both be faster and more agile, which is quite important in a blaster-boat. This is not true. Mass is only a factor for AB/MWD speeds, which are dependant on base speed, mass, base ab/mwd boost %, and thrust. Agility only affects turning speed and acceleration. ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.11.17 04:36:00 - [27] If this ship stays at it is, I will stick with my Mega and buy a Vindicator when finished large Tech II Blasters.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.17 05:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Hydrian Alante If this ship stays at it is, I will stick with my Mega and buy a Vindicator when finished large Tech II Blasters. Hate to break it to ya, but the days of the fearsom blasterthron are over. I'd start training recons or something if I were you. T2 large blasters will be a waste of time. I have em. They arn't nearly as effective as they are now. To the point that I'm having to just disregard their use and focus on nos/torps/shield tanking to compete. T2 large autocannons will be nice on the Abaddon however. Because I said so...
violator2k5 Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.17 05:18:00 - [29] to put it nicely they need a slap for being lazy with the model design of the hyperion. 4 mega models in game already, was no need for a 5th "yawns"
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.17 05:20:00 - [30] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 17/11/2006 05:22:05 Originally by: Aeaus - Speed is a factor of mass and agility, the Hyperion has significantly more agility (similar to the Vindicator) it's exactly the same as the mega - see under mass Originally by: Aeaus - Megathrons can fit Ions with less PW, the Hyperion should have no real issue with it. The grid is almost the same, considering the hyp needs to fit an extra gun, it's quite a dissapointment. Originally by: Aeaus However what I will agree on that the tracking is bad (coupled with the null nerf, and the difficultly of getting into a good firing position, this is almost required for a ship to work). As for price, it doesn't really seem that significant to me. the trackings fine.... if you and your target don't intend on moving. Originally by: Aeaus The hyperion will be able to get into range faster, do more damage, and take more punishment in the blaster-boat role, and the huge capacitor allows it to run for quite some time. the capasitor is extremely average, the sig radius of the ship means it'll ballon as soon as it needs to get any where in a hurry the whole things just making me not want to fly battleships at all. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus

Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:06:00 - [31] I may have been wrong on the agility effecting speed part, but the extra capacitor is worth as much as 3 cap boosters, although after the MWD is added in then this bonus is nullified. I can see how it's quite useless versus the Megathron (it's too similar). Last Weeks Signature
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:10:00 - [32] same mass? GREAT! Big celestis?...lachesis has 7 slots with damp ability...imo does the job fine...CCP if those guys are saying the truth...ship looks cool but thats not worth it.Hypecrap
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:57:00 - [33] OP: How can this comparison by "straight" when it's clearly ***** - the Hyperion and Megathron are sooo in bed with each other. But yes, it is kind of lame how they took a Megathron and essentially added tier 3 stats on it and changed one of the bonuses. - EVE is sick.
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:05:00 - [34] how about % 5 damage %5 rof ? too much cap?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:07:00 - [35] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 09:12:52 How i would fix the hype: - Decrease locking range further - Change mid slot to low slot - Decrease signature - Reduce mass - Change Rep bonus into mwd cap size bonus like on the vindi OR cap booster size reduction while in cargo bonus OR just a cargo size bonus. - Add 25m3 drone bay - Add 1000 to 1500 pg Considering this thing is supposed to cost 170 mill-ish isk, it should be better then a tier 2 tbh... Looks alone arent worth the extra 60 mill Now Hype is better then mega, but cant go long range forcing it to be a short/med range ship while the mega can can go both, but less efficient though with a cheaper price tag. Originally by: Akiman how about % 5 damage %5 rof ? too much cap? Rof would be bad, blaster ships are going to be running out of cap boosters more often, higher rof means more cap usage means your fight ends even earlier. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:22:00 - [36] Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. You can't refit in-flight, have to refit in station, which means people will have the Hyperion as a blaster boat, and train Rokh as fleet ship. Megathron won't be used. As it is right now, you've got two ships stamping on each other's feet. They're good at the same thing, but slightly differently good at it. Not big enough different to merit deeper thought on the subject (just chose one of the bloody things and fit it like a blaster boat and you'll do fine). In the end, the problem is that both ships are blaster boats and that the Hyperion fails miserably at being inventive. It's a Megathron Mk.II, which is the problem (everyone knows that with Gallente designs it won't be good until Mk.V at which point it'll be seriously overpowered) -1 low slot, +1 mid slot, -2 turrets, +2 to 4 launchers +150 CPU, -1,000 PG remove tanking bonus add dampener bonus And there you have it, a new shiny exciting Gallente ship that doesn't stomp anyone on the foot, is decidedly dangerous, but doesn't outdamage the Megathron. An alternative is to remove the turret bonus and do nothing with the hardpoints and powergrid. - EVE is sick.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Aeaus - Range is worse to prevent it from becoming the "uber sniper," but this will happen anyway (nice agility + decent damage = win for hit and run) - Speed is a factor of mass and agility, the Hyperion has significantly more agility (similar to the Vindicator) so it will both be faster and more agile, which is quite important in a blaster-boat. - Megathrons can fit Ions with less PW, the Hyperion should have no real issue with it. 1) Get on the test server. Its easy to fit a nice sniper setup which locks out to 240km. 2) Get on the test server. Its really not much more agile than the megathron. 3) The Hyperion has 8 slots, not 7. It can't fit anything apart from electrons easily.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:43:00 - [38] Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/11/2006 09:46:56 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. It wouldn't. Why are people forgetting that this thing costs 75m MORE than the Megathron? That matters. Most players in EVE don't have unlimited ISK. Its perfectly reasonable that this ship should be MUCH BETTER than its Tier 2 friends. There is a distinct lack of courage from the Devs in this respect. So, lets be clear: Either this ship needs to be BETTER than its tier 2 counterparts, OR it needs to be different (Big Celestis). Neither isnt good enough.
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 17/11/2006 09:46:56 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. It wouldn't. Why are people forgetting that this thing costs 75m MORE than the Megathron? That matters. Most players in EVE don't have unlimited ISK. Its perfectly reasonable that this ship should be MUCH BETTER than its Tier 2 friends. There is a distinct lack of courage from the Devs in this respect. So, lets be clear: Either this ship needs to be BETTER than its tier 2 counterparts, OR it needs to be different (Big Celestis). Neither isnt good enough. I'm with you on this one. The megathron is good enough at blasters to make it not worth paying the extra money for the hyperion. I would LOVE for it to be a damp platform.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.17 09:54:00 - [40] Double damage bonus, 40km base locking range, good agility/mass for mwding close, enough pg to just barely squeeze on 8x neutron blaster ii's. Now that'd be a blasterboat :D. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama

Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:10:00 - [41] My hyperion would be; Base speed must be 135 m/sec (need speed, its a blaster ship) Mass must be 100.000.000 kg (if u fit a 1600 plate this will be equal to megathron...Fair enough...Maybe) Must have agility... (manuverability,transversal tracking,etc.) 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) (its a blaster ship,she doesnt want more drone bay she needs speed.Remove 25 m3 drone bay,add more bigger thrusters) Decreased lock range 30 km (-) , increased scan resolution 150 (+) Now you see i give a penalty for every boost for being fair. (its a blaster ship,thinking bout using it in fleet combat is out of concept and question, therefore more reduced locking range for increased locking time,you cant have a hit from 60km anyway) (About the speed, you can say we get help from minmatar scientists and manufacturers...Like amarr get help from caldari) Akiman
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:10:00 - [42] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 10:12:08 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. You can't refit in-flight, have to refit in station, which means people will have the Hyperion as a blaster boat, and train Rokh as fleet ship. Megathron won't be used. As it is right now, you've got two ships stamping on each other's feet. They're good at the same thing, but slightly differently good at it. Not big enough different to merit deeper thought on the subject (just chose one of the bloody things and fit it like a blaster boat and you'll do fine). In the end, the problem is that both ships are blaster boats and that the Hyperion fails miserably at being inventive. It's a Megathron Mk.II, which is the problem (everyone knows that with Gallente designs it won't be good until Mk.V at which point it'll be seriously overpowered) -1 low slot, +1 mid slot, -2 turrets, +2 to 4 launchers +150 CPU, -1,000 PG remove tanking bonus add dampener bonus And there you have it, a new shiny exciting Gallente ship that doesn't stomp anyone on the foot, is decidedly dangerous, but doesn't outdamage the Megathron. An alternative is to remove the turret bonus and do nothing with the hardpoints and powergrid. 180 mill for something an Arazu can do while its being an uber scout? Sure it would be the logical thing to do but boring too. Sure Gallente could use a sensor damp bs but it should cost the same as a scorp. Plus id rather see such an awesome looking ship become a blastership. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain Tbh 10m/s extra isnt worth the drone, hell, 50 ms extra isnt worth the drone. I've never problems getting my bthron into range, its like a train, it takes a bit to get going but once its on a roll the only thing stopping it will be another train. Id be more then happy to have its base speed set to 125 if it means 5 heavy drones. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Akiman	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:31:00 - [46] i agree too :) . but i think devs wont do such a thing : \ so im trying to fit that ship like they want to be and getting a superb fast blaster bs is fun in theorically.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 10:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Akiman so im trying to fit that ship like they want to be Judging by the hyperion they dont even know what they want it to be ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:20:00 - [48] Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 17/11/2006 18:21:39 Problem with this comparison is your not looking at the wider picture as others mentioned. The other 3 tiers are super-heavy weights, bigger and much slower so getting them into range isn't a problem. I'm just going to look at the weight and speed which I have the biggest problem with it being increased. Agility Looking at existing ships: Typhoon = 1E8 Megathron = Hyperion = Tempest = 1.025E8 Dominix = 1.05E8 Apocalypse = 1.075E8 Armageddon = 1.1E8 Raven = 1.1E8 Scorpion = 1.1E8 So saying it needs more agility is just rediculus as its already one of the most agile BS's with heavier ships being added. Speed Typhoon = 150m/s Tempest = 140m/s Hyperion = 130m/s Aramageddon = Megathron = 125m/s Dominix = 120m/s Raven = Scorpion = Apocalypse = 115m/s So as you see here, the only ships quicker than it are the Minmatar ships. With the 3 other Kali BS's being even bigger and heavier thats 2 BS's quicker than it and 9 slower.... Problem is the Mega is such a good Blaster ship if you make a better version (lighter/quicker) with the same firepower it will catch ANYTHING and the disadvantage of blasters (low range) is gone. What I would do... Well i'd scrap the design personally. It's being squeezed into a hole that really isn't there. Make it a sensor dampener ship, Gallente are meant to be blasters and drones, not long range. Sensor dampeners are designed to make people fight closer... its the perfect ship for the tier 3 as it typifies what gallente do. What i'd do, in my dreams Give it to the minny's instead of the Maelstrom and make that tanking bonus a speed bonus! since ac's with only 1 damage bonus won't do uber damage. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :) Why pay upwards of 200 mil for an overgrown Celestis, when you can pay 65 mil for a Scorpion and be just as effective? ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:42:00 - [50] Originally by: Imode Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :) Why pay upwards of 200 mil for an overgrown Celestis, when you can pay 65 mil for a Scorpion and be just as effective? Man, every time you guys list a price for the hyperion it gets higher. What's next? 300 million?

Commander Nikolas Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:24:00 - [51] Just give it 19,000 - 21,000 PG and it would be a great ship... like the thoer tier 3's
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Imode Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 16/11/2006 23:14:37 oh, and one more thing scrap the useless Hype, and give me a BS-sized celestis with 7 or 8 mids and some nice damping bonuses oh yes :) Why pay upwards of 200 mil for an overgrown Celestis, when you can pay 65 mil for a Scorpion and be just as effective? Man, every time you guys list a price for the hyperion it gets higher. What's next? 300 million? Okay, sorry 170 mil. The fact still stands, you can buy nearly 3 scorpions for the same price, unless they do something crazy, like make the Hyperion into a tier 1 ewar boat, make the dominix a tier 2 drone, and make the mega the tier 3 and adjust all the prices to match. I will explode if they make my mega cost 170 mil. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:37:00 - [53] Hype vs Mega Both pilots are near enough maxed on skills, infact Dave10 has large blaster spec 5. Oh and for an even easier victory (especailly now that there has been an increase in cap) I could have fitted a multi in the midslot, they still work fine tbh. (done alot of testing and a nos/jam domi will pwn a hype with ease, have fraps of this too if needed ) Hype > Mega.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.18 08:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Butter Dog Considering its 75m more than the Mega, its a joke. The mega is a better blasterboat because of the combination of its tracking bonus and the infamous (and ridiculous) Null tracking nerf. Depsite the armor rep bonus, the mega can fit a HP-boosted plate in its 7th low, and tank better. The Mega and Hype are about as good as each other at sniping. Wow. So we have a ship which is WORSE than the mega for blasting, and equal at sniping. I think I'll keep the extra 75m, thanks. hint: boost the grid so we can use nice blasters and the repping bonus (its an Electron-only bonus), increase the speed, reduce the mass further... and THEN we might consider using one over a mega Until then, you tell me - whats the ***ing point? We do people insist on re-stating this idea that the Megathron can somehow tank better? - the Hyperion can fully tank* the damage from a 7x Ion II Megathron using L Void, two damage modules and 3% implants (drones not included of course). 1 vs. 1 Megathron vs Hyperion favours the latter, the former simply cannot do enough damage to kill the Hyperion before it's HP-reliant tank fails. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:22:00 - [55] Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:26:27 I hate to say it, but I'm loving the idea of the hyperion as an oversized celestis.... an oversized celestis with a 20%/level damp range bonus At least that way gallente gets something good AND new. We have a strictly shortranged BS: dominix (which tanks like hell, for the record). We have a shortrange blasterboat that can dominate any range with the right fit (well, before that rokh thing came along), megathron. And now we have another shortrange BS, nothing new, and nothing special above the megathron. 8th turret would make for some extra punch setup as a sniper, but we already have a sniper, one turret with the same number of slots for tracking+damage mods and sensor boosters isn't really a good end result for countless hours/days/weeks/months of ship design. What we don't have, is a longrange e-war superpimp. Gimme!
nexvis	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:34:00 - [56] Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:36:27 Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:35:32 Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain Not that one, no. Any specialized blaster pilot can tell you the same thing, you need every last bit of damage you can muster to live through most fights. The key to extreme shortrange blaster combat is simply overwhelming the opponent with damage before he can put enough damage into you to pose a real threat. Not being able to field a full flight of 4 (yes, i said 4) heavy drones with 5 lights in reserve (tacklers, pesky little buggers) is an unrealistic disadvantage in my opinion. You're talking about sacrificing 63 DPS from one ogre II to be able to dispatch of a single interceptor that is likely to get you killed, or kill you himself given the time, location, and ammunition. No thank you. I'll stick to my mega, thank to very much. When the hyperion is an improved blastership (good luck with that), as opposed to the same thing with no real advantage and several disadvantages, I'll fly it.
Dave10 Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:38:00 - [57] Originally by: nexvis Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:36:27 Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 12:35:32 Originally by: Akiman Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Akiman 75 m3 drone bay (-) , more speed 10 m/sec more total 145 m/sec (+) Being a solo ship drones are VERY important. Theyre the diffrence between getting killed by 3 cruisers and a battleship because of that a blackbird and killing them all because getting jammed didnt stop 5 t2 berserkers from molesting it. but being a blaster ship must have disadvantages like that dont you think so? i say devs should thinking increase pg so neutrons or ions could fit easily then hype could pawn ships easily while other dangers remains still.like they say: No pain no gain Not that one, no. Any specialized blaster pilot can tell you the same thing, you need every last bit of damage you can muster to live through most fights. The key to extreme shortrange blaster combat is simply overwhelming the opponent with damage before he can put enough damage into you to pose a real threat. Not being able to field a full flight of 4 (yes, i said 4) heavy drones with 5 lights in reserve (tacklers, pesky little buggers) is an unrealistic disadvantage in my opinion. You're talking about sacrificing 63 DPS from one ogre II to be able to dispatch of a single interceptor that is likely to get you killed, or kill you himself given the time, location, and ammunition. No thank you. I'll stick to my mega, thank to very much. When the hyperion is an improved blastership (good luck with that), as opposed to the same thing with no real advantage and several disadvantages, I'll fly it. Watch the video and actually test it. The megat's weak tank isnt enough to hold up in Kali as you are fighting ships with effectively 100-200k armor(look at the abadon), and mega vs hyp the megat will lose. The fact that the hyp can fit an 8th gun comfortably now also makes up for the single drone loss.
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2006.11.18 12:51:00 - [58] Edited by: Mikelio Raijan on 18/11/2006 12:54:52 Oh and I wasn't even using repair rigs in the Video of Hype vs Mega, if I had been my armour tank wouldn't have even been slipping. Ohmygawd that's like just what Gabe said! (I <3 Gabe) So in closing, quit trying to take the better blasterboat and turn it into some kind of sad damp ship. (presumably that we will end up fitting ECM to anyway) Edit: For typo's
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:07:00 - [59] I'd say: Remove the armor rep bonus, give it either a tracking bonus or another damage bonus. Make it faster and 1mil kg (ie, Typhoon stats). More grid to actually fit stuff, less lock range (a lot less), more signature resolution. Could prolly do with less cpu if -1 mid +1 low. Then reword Mega to lose the tracking bonus, give it armor resist and otherwise keep it the same. Then finally switch the models so we have a good looking Blasterboat and a butt-ugly fleet ship. Voila, fixed. Sorta.
baaaaal	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:15:00 - [60] what font is that at the start of the video? did u guys test how much tracking disruptors hurt the hyperion? tbh i really dont see where i would ever get to use a hyperion pvp is never in small numbers anymore for me so unless your a pirate in some small gank sqaud i dont see where anyone would use one. if your going to use a blastership might aswell use a mega and save your self 60-70mil btw whats hyperion like vs domi with nos or neuts?

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:31:00 - [61] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 10:12:08 Originally by: Ithildin Honestly, Joshua, all that would accomplish is relegate the Megathron to strict fleet use, where it will be lacking with the new Rokh. You can't refit in-flight, have to refit in station, which means people will have the Hyperion as a blaster boat, and train Rokh as fleet ship. Megathron won't be used. As it is right now, you've got two ships stamping on each other's feet. They're good at the same thing, but slightly differently good at it. Not big enough different to merit deeper thought on the subject (just chose one of the bloody things and fit it like a blaster boat and you'll do fine). In the end, the problem is that both ships are blaster boats and that the Hyperion fails miserably at being inventive. It's a Megathron Mk.II, which is the problem (everyone knows that with Gallente designs it won't be good until Mk.V at which point it'll be seriously overpowered) -1 low slot, +1 mid slot, -2 turrets, +2 to 4 launchers +150 CPU, -1,000 PG remove tanking bonus add dampener bonus And there you have it, a new shiny exciting Gallente ship that doesn't stomp anyone on the foot, is decidedly dangerous, but doesn't outdamage the Megathron. An alternative is to remove the turret bonus and do nothing with the hardpoints and powergrid. 180 mill for something an Arazu can do while its being an uber scout? Sure it would be the logical thing to do but boring too. Sure Gallente could use a sensor damp bs but it should cost the same as a scorp. Plus id rather see such an awesome looking ship become a blastership. Hence why I never waste time exclaiming that battleships need a thorough overhaul, where I'd like the Gallente line up to look like this (they inherit bonuses from the reference): Dominix - big Celestis (change mids for lows and reduce drone bay - done) Megathron - big Vexor (inherit Domi drone bay, reduce turrets by one - done) Hyperion - big Thorax (reduce sig radius and targeting range further - done) Oh, and change the 5% reduction in MWD capacitor penalty to 5% reduction in MWD penaltIES (with level 5, a std T1 MWD would reduce capacitor by about 4% and increase sig radius when active by only +375%). In other words, it'd be like it is right now with a reduction of the sig penalty as well. ((And the Amarr to look like: Tier 1 - big Arbitrator-ish Tier 2 - big Omen, except a bit more damage compared to it's slightly larger tanking peer Tier 3 - big Maller)) As for the cost issue. It is true that there will always be some people that'll prefere the Megathron before the Hyperion if both are viable fleet ships, but that position of dependence is one that most players quickly get out of. It is quaint, however, that people still fool themselves that something as small as 160-170 million ISK cost is some sort of balancing obstacle. After all, it took less than a year for people to climb the initial 100 million ISK obstacle and tier 2 battleships are as of the end of 2003 standard. We just use the other ships because they have different tactical applications. We use the Armageddon because it deals a lot of damage compared to range. We use the Dominix because sometimes slow and steady makes the day. And so on. If two ships do more or less the same thing, one of them will be better. If one of the ships are better, that one will be more used - regardless of cost. And besides, having two options occupying the same niche is really, really, bad game design. - EVE is sick.
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:58:00 - [62] Originally by: baaaaal what font is that at the start of the video? did u guys test how much tracking disruptors hurt the hyperion? tbh i really dont see where i would ever get to use a hyperion pvp is never in small numbers anymore for me so unless your a pirate in some small gank sqaud i dont see where anyone would use one. if your going to use a blastership might aswell use a mega and save your self 60-70mil btw whats hyperion like vs domi with nos or neuts? Font is Lithos Pro black. (just a vid I chucked together specifically for this thread) At the sort of speeds a webbied battleship goes I don't see tracking disruptors hurting the Hype much more than they would a Mega, Kali is all about tanking anyway. Well I rarely pirate yet I fight solo/doubleteam quite often so as much as I love the mega ill go with whichever is least likely to end a fight with me refitting in Jita. 60-70mill most of which is insured for a bship that fights better AND can fit the imba ECM happily? Yes plx, ill end up loading it up with low grade faction worth the ships value anyway. (Don't die in it and itll soon pay its way ) ECM domis with nos still work perfectly, they pwn both hype and mega... if anything the spare medslot for the hype to use an ECM of its own or the new even more boosted ECCM's helps it, no?
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:12:00 - [63] Edited by: Ihar Enda on 18/11/2006 14:12:58 Originally by: Ithildin Hence why I never waste time exclaiming that battleships need a thorough overhaul, where I'd like the Gallente line up to look like this (they inherit bonuses from the reference): Dominix - big Celestis (change mids for lows and reduce drone bay - done) Megathron - big Vexor (inherit Domi drone bay, reduce turrets by one - done) Hyperion - big Thorax (reduce sig radius and targeting range further - done) No thanks. Leave battleships that are not broken alone. Just change the Hype into something useful, like a dampener boat.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:33:00 - [64] Originally by: Ihar Enda Edited by: Ihar Enda on 18/11/2006 14:12:58 Originally by: Ithildin Hence why I never waste time exclaiming that battleships need a thorough overhaul, where I'd like the Gallente line up to look like this (they inherit bonuses from the reference): Dominix - big Celestis (change mids for lows and reduce drone bay - done) Megathron - big Vexor (inherit Domi drone bay, reduce turrets by one - done) Hyperion - big Thorax (reduce sig radius and targeting range further - done) No thanks. Leave battleships that are not broken alone. Just change the Hype into something useful, like a dampener boat. Individual parts of a machinery may not be broken and work just fine, but the question is "if the machinery as a whole doesn't work as it should, do I fix or replace parts that are contributing?" It is never a case of only fixing broken stuff, it is never a case of "just do that and it'll be fine". That's high-level reasoning and just doesn't work without going down to low-levels and examine things a lot closer, where you find that it may often be the interaction between working segments that cause some or all of the problem. Limiting your view onto a single fault and fixing it is what, in the end, kills a game in terms of diversity. Without matching fixes so that the individual parts are also affected by changes, you will eventually end up with a eschewed design where either the different parts are so completely out of alignment with concept that you no longer recognise them or you will have a situation where each individual piece has conformed to a standard and are more or less indistinguishable from their peers. So in short, you can not "not fix that which isn't broken" if you want to fix that which IS broken. Unless you want a situation which in all likelihood conforms to a single norm of indiversity. - EVE is sick.
Leam Gallente Celtic industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:41:00 - [65] I think this hyperion thing is going a wee bit out of hand... let's see... As blaster boat, does more damage than megathron... check tanks the same or better than megathron... check And have the extra midslot which comes real handy... I've only been able to test it in 2 fights, but for now my impression is that it's by far a better blasterboat than thron. And thron being kicked to a railboat role is not so weird, after all that's the most common fitting nowaydays, there are a bunch of railtrons in any blob. The problem i see with it atm is that it needs a bit more speed and/or reduced mass. Grid is maybe a bit low too, but i managed to fit 8 ions, booster, mwd etc without any grid upgrades. Instead of so much whining bout changing the whole ship into a dampening boat (which btw, i think changing dominix weapon bonus to dampening would be much better), run some test and help tweaking the ship... Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 14:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Ihar Enda Edited by: Ihar Enda on 18/11/2006 14:12:58 Originally by: Ithildin Hence why I never waste time exclaiming that battleships need a thorough overhaul, where I'd like the Gallente line up to look like this (they inherit bonuses from the reference): Dominix - big Celestis (change mids for lows and reduce drone bay - done) Megathron - big Vexor (inherit Domi drone bay, reduce turrets by one - done) Hyperion - big Thorax (reduce sig radius and targeting range further - done) No thanks. Leave battleships that are not broken alone. Just change the Hype into something useful, like a dampener boat. Individual parts of a machinery may not be broken and work just fine, but the question is "if the machinery as a whole doesn't work as it should, do I fix or replace parts that are contributing?" It is never a case of only fixing broken stuff, it is never a case of "just do that and it'll be fine". That's high-level reasoning and just doesn't work without going down to low-levels and examine things a lot closer, where you find that it may often be the interaction between working segments that cause some or all of the problem. Limiting your view onto a single fault and fixing it is what, in the end, kills a game in terms of diversity. Without matching fixes so that the individual parts are also affected by changes, you will eventually end up with a eschewed design where either the different parts are so completely out of alignment with concept that you no longer recognise them or you will have a situation where each individual piece has conformed to a standard and are more or less indistinguishable from their peers. So in short, you can not "not fix that which isn't broken" if you want to fix that which IS broken. Unless you want a situation which in all likelihood conforms to a single norm of indiversity. How exactly changing every gallante battleship to make hype work is better than just changing the ship in question? Make the hype a dampener boat - there you go, diversity. No need to change anything else.
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:50:00 - [67] As blaster boat, Quote: does more damage than megathron... check Nope. If it actually could FIT the full 8 turrets, then yes. As it is, it can't realistically do that without a fitting mod, losing any for of tank it can have. Also 37,5% less tracking kinda owns its dps. Quote: tanks the same or better than megathron... check With one less slot? Mega tanks better than the Hype. Especially if you actually intend to put a blaster fitting on. Quote: And have the extra midslot which comes real handy... Handy to fit a tracking computer, making your tracking only subpar instead of fubar.
Leam Gallente Celtic industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:10:00 - [68] Edited by: Leam on 19/11/2006 13:14:38 Edited by: Leam on 19/11/2006 13:13:49 Edited by: Leam on 19/11/2006 13:10:52 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: does more damage than megathron... check Nope. If it actually could FIT the full 8 turrets, then yes. As it is, it can't realistically do that without a fitting mod, losing any for of tank it can have. Also 37,5% less tracking kinda owns its dps. Uh, it CAN fit the full 8 turrets... my hyperion fitting in test server was 8 ions, booster, 2 webbers, mwd, tracking comp (i didnt need to scramble at the time), 3 dmg mods II (or was it 2?) large rep II, rest more tank toys. top end enginering skills, advanced weapon upgrades IV tho. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: tanks the same or better than megathron... check With one less slot? Mega tanks better than the Hype. Especially if you actually intend to put a blaster fitting on. with one less slot, yeah, and a REPAIRING BONUS, in a ship that has to use as few tanking slots as possible. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: And have the extra midslot which comes real handy... Handy to fit a tracking computer, making your tracking only subpar instead of fubar. For example, but there you should be whining about blasters needing a tracking bonus to hit at their optimal anything smaller than a POS. Anyway, fit a blasterthron and fight an hyperion and see what happens. EDIT: btw read what dave10 and mikelio have to say, they're the only ones that i've seen providing videos and results of real fights :P. Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Dave10 Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:11:00 - [69] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux As blaster boat, Quote: does more damage than megathron... check Nope. If it actually could FIT the full 8 turrets, then yes. As it is, it can't realistically do that without a fitting mod, losing any for of tank it can have. Also 37,5% less tracking kinda owns its dps. Quote: tanks the same or better than megathron... check With one less slot? Mega tanks better than the Hype. Especially if you actually intend to put a blaster fitting on. Quote: And have the extra midslot which comes real handy... Handy to fit a tracking computer, making your tracking only subpar instead of fubar. it can fit 8 guns and track fine. Linkage Linkage
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:09:00 - [70] needs just a tiny bit more grid, 500-800 so with AW5 you could fit: 8x ions 1x heavy cap injector 1x 100mn mwd 3x whatever 2x LAR 4x Whatever I do miss the omni tank of the thron but the hype +rigs +gal bss 5 = the best gallente tank bar moros, in the game atm. A setup i've been playing around with atm (bar in mind my BS skills currently suck on SiSi) 8x electrons 100mn MWD 2x Heavy injectors web scramb 2x LAR 1600mm CP EANM explosive hardener DCU 3 damage rigs. Works well against those nos setups, tanks them fine and does reasonible damage... I may even start training for them on TQ Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus

Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.21 08:51:00 - [71] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 21/11/2006 08:52:41 Originally by: Pattern Clarc 2x Heavy injectors And where are the cap boosters gonna be coming from? You cant even carry enough to last a single booster an entire fight... let alone two of em... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]


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