EVE Search - Changes to charges

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Changes to charges

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
TomB	Posted - 2003.11.11 14:33:00 - [1] Upcoming changes to charges because of imbalance between crystals and ammo and hybrid ammo. I'm truly sorry that this has slipped past us for such a long time and I've never had this brought up as an issue before. This tuning will be very basic to begin with for players on the test server to get a feel for, further tuning will happen on turrets and most likely on charges as well. Do not flame your hearts out , rather test this on the test server and give your feedback here. This won't go live until this has been well tested and tuned. Crystals Infrared EM Damage decreased by 20% Microwave EM Damage decreased by 16.7% Radio EM Damage decreased by 25% Ultraviolet Optimal Range bonus/penality from 0.9 to 0.875 Xray Optimal Range bonus/penality from 0.8 to 0.75 Gamma Optimal Range bonus/penality from 0.7 to 0.625 Multifrequency Optimal Range bonus/penality from 0.6 to 0.5 Thermal Damage decreased by 14.3% Ammo Carbonized Lead Optimal Range bonus/penality from 1.3 to 1.6 Nuclear Optimal Range bonus/penality from 1.2 to 1.4 Photon Optimal Range bonus/penality from 1.1 to 1.2 Hybrid Ammo Iron Optimal Range bonus/penality from 1.3 to 1.6 Tungsten Optimal Range bonus/penality from 1.2 to 1.4 Iridium Optimal Range bonus/penality from 1.1 to 1.2 UPDATE: Changes to crystals, ranges brought to same old form, damage reduced instead "Where is my hat?"
Stepping Razor	Posted - 2003.11.11 14:42:00 - [2] Would you mind fixing the ammo size too TomB? L Hybrid ammo does 2X the damage of M ammo, but takes up 5X the space?. Razor Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon CCP is the best at at least three things: 1. Really, really fun gameplay 2. Good forum presence 3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.11.11 14:43:00 - [3] Before trying it out: Wohoo! Now lets see if hybrids are the long range weapons again.
TomB	Posted - 2003.11.11 14:46:00 - [4] Quote: Would you mind fixing the ammo size too TomB? L Hybrid ammo does 2X the damage of M ammo, but takes up 5X the space?. I will reduce them soon my friend, focusing on this first. "Where is my hat?"
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.11.11 15:26:00 - [5] Edited by: ClawHammer III on 11/11/2003 15:27:12 The changes look good... just one minor nitpick. Longer wavelengths tend to travel farther then shorter wavelengths so the new crystal order is a bit confusing to me. I assume you changed to range bonuses to reflect thier total damage which is probably a good thing.
Damaclease	Posted - 2003.11.11 15:31:00 - [6] Ahhh my lovely Laser they have being threatened by the nerf bat Pls nooooo
Tombfiller	Posted - 2003.11.11 15:41:00 - [7] Quote: Gamma Optimal Range bonus/penality from 0.7 to 6.25 from 0.7 to 6.25 Typo for 0.625 ? ##--------------------------## # Is this the post button ? # ##--------------------------##
xeno calligan	Posted - 2003.11.11 15:42:00 - [8] Edited by: xeno calligan on 11/11/2003 17:10:18 Things are shaping up nicely -- the boost from +30% to +60% is definitely needed to make the long range charges attractive. I'm just a bit confused about the changes to std/infrared/micro/radio crystals; Why change the order? (and I hope the range on gamma crystals is a typo ) Grabbing values from TQ (chaos patches are inaccessible atm ): Standard: +60.0% range, 12em, 12th = 24 Infrared: +40.0% range, 20em, 8th = 28 Microwave: +20.0% range, 24em, 4th = 28 Radio: + 0.0% range, 32em, 0th = 32 Ultraviolet: -12.5% range, 16em, 16th = 32 Xray: -25.0% range, 16em, 20th = 36 Gamma: -37.5% range, 16em, 24th = 40 Multifreq: -50.0% range, 20em, 24th = 44 Iron: +60.0% range, 8ki, 8th = 16 Tungsten: +40.0% range, 12ki, 8th = 20 Iridium: +20.0% range, 12ki, 12th = 24 Lead: + 0.0% range, 16ki, 12th = 28 Thorium: -12.5% range, 16ki, 16th = 32 Uranium: -25.0% range, 20ki, 16th = 36 Plutonium: -37.5% range, 20ki, 20th = 40 Antimatter: -50.0% range, 24ki, 20th = 44 Everything looks ok until we get to neutral and long range crystals. The default range damage for lasers (radio) is 32 but only 28 for lead charges. This gets gradually worse, ending in a 50% damage advantage to lasers. Lasers can now hit with a 50/50 distribution to em and th damages at extreme ranges as opposed to em only like before. But lasers still retain the option of dishing out pure em damage. If rails are supposed to be sniper weapons, this must change. Possibly by swapping the total damage outputs, so hybrids get a 50% advantage over lasers and not the other way around -- thus encourraging rail users to use long range charges even more. Edit: radio=em
Nareau	Posted - 2003.11.11 15:51:00 - [9] It had to happen sometime soon.. its not too bad. Hopefully I can get to testing this soon.
Teeth	Posted - 2003.11.11 16:00:00 - [10] I must say these don't look too bad as a first pass. It'd be nice if they were ordered according to wavelength, but it's nice to have some faith restored in the dev's balancing abilities.
xeno calligan	Posted - 2003.11.11 16:13:00 - [11] One thing that might tick laser users off: there's no "unload" option for weapons. This hasn't been a problem so far because the "standard configuration" wasn't attractive, so hardly anyone used it. With the proposed changes it becomes important to be able to swap to the "standard configuration" for max range. Either add a unload option or add a new standard crystal to the market.
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.11.11 16:31:00 - [12] @xeno: Think about what you want: Lasers doing a mix of em and thermal damage (about which you complain) or lasers doing only one damage type, em (about which you complain) And radios have always done EM only, not thermal. ----------- Generally: - The old order of sorting laser ranges by wavelength is no gone. It was only pseudoscience (real lasers won't work this way in space), ok, but it's better than no science at all - the current order hasn't even an attempt of being logical. So: Back to the old order, but with modified damages, for example Radio reduced to 24 EM, standart enhanced to 16 Ther, 16 EM and so on. - Most Crystals still do more damage than hybrid/pro ammo. Either reduce the crystals to the ammo stats or enhance the ammos to the crystals. I would rather do the latter, since lowlevel ammos are not very often used ATM, enhancing them could change than. As added bonus there won't be as much whining from laser users. free speech not allowed here
Fritz Ionar	Posted - 2003.11.11 16:34:00 - [13] Could you fix the info window for depleated uranim ammo while your at it, it doesn't state the range penalty. First I thought depleated uranium didn't have a range penalty, but when I put it in my guns and show info on the guns it is evident that it does have a range penalty just like every other ammo. ------------------------------------------ The services YOU need, WE provide!
James Hawkings	Posted - 2003.11.11 16:42:00 - [14] cheers to tomb for trying to help balance weapons. i'll try to get on teh test server to help work with the new changes and get info back to you. one question, on the test server i've heard of the corp fight club where you can pull what ever you want from the hangers and work with it, how and where can i join this corp on the test server? ~Built Hauler Tough~ ~Dazed and Confused Currently~
TomB	Posted - 2003.11.11 16:42:00 - [15] Quote: Could you fix the info window for depleated uranim ammo while your at it, it doesn't state the range penalty. First I thought depleated uranium didn't have a range penalty, but when I put it in my guns and show info on the guns it is evident that it does have a range penalty just like every other ammo. Depleted Uranium doesn't have a range bonus or penality, the multiplier is 1.0 and there for doesn't get displayed in the UI because it doesn't affect the charge. Do more people see range penality/bonus for using Depleted Uranium?? "Where is my hat?"
xeno calligan	Posted - 2003.11.11 17:08:00 - [16] Edited by: xeno calligan on 11/11/2003 17:18:13 Quote: @xeno: Think about what you want: Lasers doing a mix of em and thermal damage (about which you complain) or lasers doing only one damage type, em (about which you complain) And radios have always done EM only, not thermal. Hehe, actually it wasn't as much a complaint as a note. The fact is that by reordering by damage, the distribution between em and th does not slide towards pure em. This is imo an improvement for lasers since you're no longer forced to do em damage only at extreme ranges and you can still configure for pure em (but at shorter ranges, obviously). My main complaint is that the damage output of lasers is 50% higher than for hybrids using long-range munitions, eventhough rails are supposed to be sniper weapons. And yes, the radio=em was a beef. I'm caldari and use rails and th=shield-eater-damage-type for rails Edit: em->th
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.11.11 17:15:00 - [17] The last "em" should be "thermal", shouldn't it? free speech not allowed here
xeno calligan	Posted - 2003.11.11 17:20:00 - [18] Quote: The last "em" should be "thermal", shouldn't it? Cut me some slack, hun. It's 2:17am and I'm low on caffeine
Conman	Posted - 2003.11.11 18:45:00 - [19] Wondering why hyrbrid have to do an equal amount of damage when compared to lasers? Since laser already have a massive drawback because they drain a huge amount of cap. I still think that hybrids need a boost but would prefer if laser stayed untouched since most people have based there skill training on a particluar type of weapon. I was also wondering what all the other laser and hybrid user think about this. I am drunken irish slave hahaha i live
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2003.11.11 19:14:00 - [20] Quote: Wondering why hyrbrid have to do an equal amount of damage when compared to lasers? Since laser already have a massive drawback because they drain a huge amount of cap. I still think that hybrids need a boost but would prefer if laser stayed untouched since most people have based there skill training on a particluar type of weapon. I was also wondering what all the other laser and hybrid user think about this. All is see is a very small damage adjustment to Multi F crystals so far. Hybrids are only getting tracking and some minor optimal boosts. Pain is meant to be felt
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.11.11 20:14:00 - [21] Quote: Wondering why hyrbrid have to do an equal amount of damage when compared to lasers? Since laser already have a massive drawback because they drain a huge amount of cap. I still think that hybrids need a boost but would prefer if laser stayed untouched since most people have based there skill training on a particluar type of weapon. I was also wondering what all the other laser and hybrid user think about this. Maybe because Hybrids use ammo AND cap... so why should hybrids be the worst weapons? "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.11.11 20:28:00 - [22] And nevermind that pro ammo does exactly the same amount of damage as hybrid ammo - crystals are stronger than both ammo types. And why should they be equal to the ammos? They need a lot cap, but they have the best tracking and the best damage/time of all weapons - even after the balancing of the crystals. free speech not allowed here
Karif	Posted - 2003.11.11 20:45:00 - [23] Edited by: Karif on 11/11/2003 20:52:25 The unpopular opinion : All numbers are for large charges, crystals or rounds. Reduce accordingly to M and S charges. Crystals Multi - Thermal Damage: 44 EM Damage: 0 Range Modifier: 0.90 Gamma - Thermal Damage: 36 EM Damage: 8 Range Modifier: 0.95 Xray - Thermal Damage: 28 EM Damage: 16 Range Modifier: 0.00 Ultraviolet - Thermal Damage: 24 EM Damage: 20 Range Modifier: 1.10 Standard - Thermal Damage: 20 EM Damage: 24 Range Modifier: 1.10 Infrared - Thermal Damage: 16 EM Damage: 28 Range Modifier: 1.00 Microwave - Thermal Damage: 8 EM Damage: 36 Range Modifier: 0.95 Radio - Thermal Damage: 0 EM Damage: 44 Range Modifier: 0.90 Intended effect: Lazy setups will use the slighly long range Standard/UV lenses and do a fairly even split of damage (EM/Thermal). Not the "best", but a good choice for standard setups. Specifying the damage type by going MF or RF results in a reduced range, but increased damage depending on the target's status (RF/EM vs unhardened shields, MF/TH vs armor). The range penalty is in place due to the ease of lense-swapping. Range effects are minimal, putting the maximum range of the longest range set ups into 50-60km. Charges Antimatter - Thermal: 44 Kinetic: 0 Range Modifier: 1.15 Plutonium - Thermal: 36 Kinetic: 8 Range Modifier: 1.10 Uranium - Thermal: 28 Kinetic: 16 Range Modifier: 1.00 Iridium - Thermal: 24 Kinetic: 20 Range Modifier: 0.85 Thorium - Thermal: 20 Kinetic: 24 Range Modifier: 0.85 Lead - Thermal: 16 Kinetic: 28 Range Modifier: 1.00 Tungsten - Thermal: 8 Kinetic: 36 Range Modifier: 1.10 Iron - Thermal: 0 Kinetic: 44 Range Modifier: 1.15 Intended Effect: The opposite of frequency lenses - the lazy setup will rely on the shorter range split damage thorium/iridium ammunition types. Again, a decent standard setup. Using specific damage types nets the user a slight bonus to range. Those who what to tailor their damage types get a bonus. Why? Ammunition takes up much more room than lenses, and railguns are intended to have the longest ranges. The range bonus/penalties have a minimal impact on Hybrid Blasters. Ammunition becomes a choice of damage type spread. Range effects put the effective range on 425mm on a Caldari ship at around 70-80km. Projectile Rounds Short Range Rounds: 0.75 Range Modifier EMP - EM Damage: 32 Thermal Damage: 12 Phased Plasma - Thermal Damage: 32 Kinetic Damage: 12 Fusion - Explosive Damage: 32 Kinetic Damage: 12 Titanium Sabot - Kinetic Damage: 32 Explosive Damage: 12 Long Range Rounds: 1.15 Range Modifier Photon - EM Damage: 16 Thermal Damage: 8 Depleted Uranium - Thermal Damage: 16 Kinetic Damage: 6 Nuclear - Explosive Damage: 16 Kinetic Damage: 6 Carbon Lead - Kinetic Damage: 16 Explosive Damage: 6 Intended Effect: The choice of damage types, in "short" and "long" range variants. Each has an advantage. Long range ammo in 1400mm Howitzers can reach out into the 70-75km range by relying on falloff and a 50% damage reduction. The short range ammo can almost match the damage output of Pulse/Blasters, but this is where the slower tracking of projectiles becomes a mitigating factor. As always, the pilot used for breaking the numbers down was 5 Gunnery/3 all other Weapon Skills and no modules or battleship effects. The latter were checked to ensure that things did not extrapolate badly (especially in the case of the Tempest) - and they did not. A heavily skilled Tempest pilot using projectiles can almost match a similar skilled pilot in Amarr, Gallente or Caldari battleships. What would be the defining effect would be the skill of the player - as it should be... =============================== Deception + Information + Skill
Fritz Ionar	Posted - 2003.11.11 21:23:00 - [24] Quote: Quote: Could you fix the info window for depleated uranim ammo while your at it, it doesn't state the range penalty. First I thought depleated uranium didn't have a range penalty, but when I put it in my guns and show info on the guns it is evident that it does have a range penalty just like every other ammo. Depleted Uranium doesn't have a range bonus or penality, the multiplier is 1.0 and there for doesn't get displayed in the UI because it doesn't affect the charge. Do more people see range penality/bonus for using Depleted Uranium?? My bad I just now realised that some ammo have a range BONUS, I thought they all had penaltys. So what happend was I fited some ammo with a BONUS and then changed to Depl. uranium and saw the range drop, since I thought the ammo I had before had a range PENALTY I figured the depl. uranium had an even bigger penalty. Oh boy, do I have some serious ammo reavaluation to do now... range BONUS, doh! Sorry about that Mr. TomB, I'll be sure to investigate a bit harder before I open my moth next time ------------------------------------------ The services YOU need, WE provide!
Tekla	Posted - 2003.11.11 21:50:00 - [25] ...must...resist...flaming... Just remember that lasers cost far more than the others in terms of cap usage and fitting requirements, mmkay?
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.11 22:12:00 - [26] Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 22:14:40 "Just remember that lasers cost far more than the others in terms of cap usage and fitting requirements, mmkay? " ... And by default they are to be installed on the Amarr ships which has the largest capacitor, largest powergrid and bonus to capacitor recharge rate and/or energy turret cap usage. These features pretty much cancel the higher requirements of lasers, while still giving one the bonus of higher damage rate, non?..
Bushido	Posted - 2003.11.12 03:19:00 - [27] PLZZZZZZ shortcuts for ammo recharge example: shift-# and the shortcuts should be saved on cache naturally. Now you have to reassign them every time you launch the client. Bushido
Mynobe Soletae	Posted - 2003.11.12 05:18:00 - [28] I didn't buy BP's for all ammo types, and all lasers. I just bought what I felt I may need, or may be desirable: a long range and a short range/dmg bp for each type. Now Radio won't be the long range option anymore. Will you offer an option to swap out BP's? ME researched? Or do we have to shell out more millions?
CobraMac	Posted - 2003.11.12 07:27:00 - [29] Quote: Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 22:14:40 "Just remember that lasers cost far more than the others in terms of cap usage and fitting requirements, mmkay? " ... And by default they are to be installed on the Amarr ships which has the largest capacitor, largest powergrid and bonus to capacitor recharge rate and/or energy turret cap usage. These features pretty much cancel the higher requirements of lasers, while still giving one the bonus of higher damage rate, non?.. lol, so now you decide who can use lasers based on your fantacy of balance, yeah..right ;)
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2003.11.12 08:29:00 - [30] Quote: Quote: Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 22:14:40 "Just remember that lasers cost far more than the others in terms of cap usage and fitting requirements, mmkay? " ... And by default they are to be installed on the Amarr ships which has the largest capacitor, largest powergrid and bonus to capacitor recharge rate and/or energy turret cap usage. These features pretty much cancel the higher requirements of lasers, while still giving one the bonus of higher damage rate, non?.. lol, so now you decide who can use lasers based on your fantacy of balance, yeah..right ;) I think J0 tried to be polite and explain what i ll tell you bluntly. Go ahead and load Tachyons and Megabeams on your Dominix, Scorpion and Megathron etc but don't come whining when you realise that you have a completely **y loadout. She isn't dictating who should use laser and on which ships. She just offered you the reasoning behind the fitting/usage requirements of lasers. You are free to fit lasers on any ship and look like a complete monkey. Fantasy of balance? what's that supposed to mean? What fantasy... she stated simple facts: Tachyon on a Megathron = Not so Viable. Tachyon on an Apoc = Proper use of Turret. You've been ranting on 2 threads without a single argument and for no reason at all. Go read what changes are being discussed... try to understand them... and then voice you concerns presenting arguments. Pain is meant to be felt**

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.