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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Kadesh Priestess
This Game Is Terrible Warlords of the Deep
469
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Posted - 2015.06.09 21:40:44 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Kadesh Priestess wrote:HIC would fit blood raider theme much better imo. Sansha have the Revenant and the Fiend follows that theme. I don't follow your logic but whatever. If sansha has supercap it doesn't imply they need HICs.
If you want it to have cool TQ bonuses (and let it be used for supercap tackling), it needs to have 2 more bonuses (at the cost of mass/speed penalty negation):
much shorter point cycle or ability to receive reps while tackling AND dscan immunity or covops cloak
For AT meta i like Rive's proposal, or - at least general direction. But frig wouldn't be that cool even with projection bonus - i'd rather give it much more dps w/o projection bonuses; and for cruiser having 80km scorches with 37% bonus to tracking sounds too OP to me.
Also i noticed how people easily get tunnel visioned on ship bonuses, while base stats are as important as bonuses - only a few voiced concerns about these. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1086
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Posted - 2015.06.09 22:12:29 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Kadesh Priestess wrote:HIC would fit blood raider theme much better imo. Sansha have the Revenant and the Fiend follows that theme. being bad? |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
464
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Posted - 2015.06.12 15:59:08 -
[33] - Quote
So I too am confused on the HIC logic because sansha has the worst super to ever exist......
however I do have an interesting proposal for you.
So you can take the bonuses of the base hulls and make them stronger, so the uniques are stronger that their faction counterparts...... but lets make these ships TRUELY unique and special. Something that will make them powerful on tq, but will not affect the tournament at all!
I give you an interesting excerpt from the sansha lore..... meet Sansha Kuvakei and his "true slaves"
"The praise only fueled Kuvakei's delusions of grandeur and megalomania, leading him to begin exploring ever stranger ideas. Believing that the world would be better off under his rule, with his chosen elite free of all burdens, he sought to create a loyal army of workers and soldiers. However, he realized that drones would lack creativity and adaptability. His solution was to join Jove capsuleer technology with existing brain implants to create willing slaves. Before he could perfect this technology, however, he needed test subjects. "
So keeping with this theme, I was thinking like a ship bonus of 5-10% increase of implant effectiveness. Maybe more, maybe less. I think its a totally unique idea that would be super cool. Also seeing as how you cant use pirate implants in the tourney it wouldnt affect the tournament hardly at all.
Thats my idea for your unique sansha ships
WildCat |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.06.14 15:20:59 -
[34] - Quote
am i the only one who thinks a ship with a (HIC) bubble burning @ 3500m/s (100MN AB?) is seemingly overpowered? |
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
152
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Posted - 2015.06.17 08:54:38 -
[35] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:So I too am confused on the HIC logic because sansha has the worst super to ever exist......
WildCat
Might be the worst in blob warfare...but if you do small scale pvp...a 24k dps super that has enough mid slots to switch to a fast tracking fit with 8k dps fighters that can go 8kms+ with great tracking...it is quite welcome and nowhere near the worst.
But...Yes, these AT ships are trash.
Henry Plantgenet wrote:am i the only one who thinks a ship with a (HIC) bubble burning @ 3500m/s (100MN AB?) is seemingly overpowered?
Its agility is trash, it cant be remote repaired and will probably sell in the region of 150b. Plus i dont see much point in a bubble going 3.5kms other than to run away while your bubble is still up.
If anyone uses this near me i will just titan bridge a huginn in next to it and drop a Nyx to kill it. I dont care if the Nyx dies because its 1/6th the value |
Nex Gaius
Origin. Black Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.06.17 11:36:43 -
[36] - Quote
TinkerHell wrote:If anyone uses this near me i will just titan bridge a huginn in next to it and drop a Nyx to kill it. I dont care if the Nyx dies because its 1/6th the value
GUYS I TACKLED A NYX IN MY FIEND!!
Oh I died cause I couldn't warp out cause I had myself bubbled =[ |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
31
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Posted - 2015.06.18 01:08:35 -
[37] - Quote
For what it's worth I'm in agreeance with most the posters in this thread. If you're devising a prize for us all to compete for, you should consider something that would inspire fervor to acquire.
The prizes are worth a chunk of isk and that's the greatest motivator for most. But I'm the kind of idiot who has always lived in EVE on somewhere between 1 and 5bn of liquid isk at any time, burning through whatever I have on PVP and fun. If you give me a "solopwnmobile" ship, I'll actually fly it, and I'll actually die in it, and it'll be cool. Whether that's in AT XIV, or in TQ PVP, or to concord - who knows.
I think personally that a HIC bonus for the Sansha Cruiser is the wrong direction, and the frigate while cool, isn't really worth undocking over a Succubus (esp. when you consider hull value alone).
Anyway, enough with the complaining, onto the suggestions you need to contemplate when reworking bonuses or roles.
The Imp I'm happy to see the Imp as an interceptor, but it needs to be viable to use this to tackle and hold an opponent, something very fast and with a decent range of operation to ensure it's not just webbed, scrammed and dead like any other paper-frigate.
Amarr Frigate Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed per level
Caldari Frigate Bonuses: 40% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus per level
Interceptors Bonus: 15% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Disruptor range per level 80% reduction in propulsion jamming systems activation cost
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 50% bonus to Small Energy Turret Optimal Range Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets 3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration Fittings: 55 PWG, 180 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 / 520 / 625 Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 30 / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 55 / 25 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second) : 450 / 210 / 2.14 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 420 / 3.5 / 1,000,000 / 8 / 3.75s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 800 / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Radar Signature radius: 30 Cargo capacity: 150
Changes: Increases to AB Speed bonus per level so that the ship will operate at the same, or greater speed than t2 vanilla interceptors so that you can chase down faster targets and get under their guns before they toast you (thinking ONI's, Phantasm's, Cynabals, etc.) with a increased bonus to tracking to help with the increased speed. Since it's an AB focused ship, the MWD bonus is useless and should be dropped entirely, moving the Prop Jamming bonus up into the Inty bonus, which as Mr Rive pointed out, is fairly standard. The other change was the increase from 5% bonus range for Scram/Disruptor, to 15% bonus range. Still below the bonuses handed to the Garmur or Orthrus, this gives it a larger engagement range to hold a target while orbiting.
Obviously to go with the speed/operation range increases, the guns need to match and hit as far. The role bonus remains at 150% bonus damage, but an extra 50% bonus optimal would give it the ability to kite and apply damage to larger targets, making this an extremely fun ship to take out and fly in TQ PVP. Very valuable in future AT's as well. And lets face it, if you're bankrolling the isk to drop these in an AT, you're comfortable losing them.
Other changes made were to decrease base speed to 420, compensating for AB Speed increase a little (blaze it yolo), and the align time decrease so that you've got better orbit profile when you're tackling something. Slightly higher lockrange due to increased disruptor and gun range. Slightly higher PG to fit a better tank (MSEII+ other things will eat this up pretty quickly).
Anyway, onto the Fiend.
FIEND
Honestly unlike the Imp I don't know where to start on this one, or what I want it to do. I do not like the idea of a HIC, it is really not the right kind of ship to be flinging into situations where you have a bubble stopping you from warping. Make it a HAC, make it a Logistics cruiser, make it a recon, a sniper. Anything but HIC. I actually liked DHB's suggestion to give it a bonus to pirate implant effectiveness - it is something completely new and ultimately very in line with the Sansha backstory and culture. Even a 20% increase to a pirate implant set overall effectiveness would be absolutely game-changing. It would mean the ship loses viability in the AT due to the ban on pirate implants, but it gives it so much more versatility in TQ and would become the ship of choice for smallgang pvp (where EVE meta should be heading towards).
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Mystic Rebel
Russian Thunder Squad The Afterlife.
334
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Posted - 2015.06.18 10:43:49 -
[38] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote: much shorter point cycle or ability to receive reps while tackling AND dscan immunity or covops cloak
As I think of it right now, covops cloak would be a great addition to the ability to be repped while WDF is active. While a unique logi with covops cloak exists (etana), there would be nothing wrong with a unique covops cloak hictor to exist, after all there must be some pvp use for a 100b+ ship.
As for tournament use, I think additional stats would be enough. Like 30-40% more ehp and damage compared to the hac/hic/faction cruiser counterparts in addition to the same speed with AB as the counterparts have using MWD. |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
468
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Posted - 2015.06.20 01:50:19 -
[39] - Quote
Any word from the dev team about their thoughts on these ships in the last few days? Any cool exciting changes planned? We are all curious to know. |
Spacemover
Paradise Holding
9
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Posted - 2015.06.20 19:19:41 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Altrue wrote:I would give the HIC a reduction to cycle time and cap cost for warp disruption field generators so that it cycles every 5 seconds or something. Thats a cool idea. However anyone actually using this to tackle supers in a fleet has waaaaaay to much ISK.
CCP Larrikin wrote:The Fiend is a Sansha Hictor. Do we expect players to use the Fiend to tackle supers? Well some special snowflake probably will..but on the whole no. We expect you guys to figure out unique and interesting ways to use them. I'm sure moving with an AB at 2.2km/s+ while having 100k+ EHP and having a bubble up could be used for all sorts of shenanigans.
I can only support Mr Rive in this.
You wrote it yourself that this HIC is to expensive to bring it to kill a titan - well what else should you use it for? Tackling a Carrier? HIC-¦s won-¦t be used in AT so i just don-¦t see your point what to do with this one except for station spinning.
What do you think of an rolebonus for automatic spinning in the station? :P
CCP Larrikin wrote:The Imp is a Sansha Interceptor, so its bonuses are going to be coming from that heritage. Sure, warp disrupt range (outside of the standard ceptor bonuses) would be powerful as hell, but that's a Gallente or Mordus bonus, not a Sansha bonus. Given its current stats/bonuses it will have a 59km Faction Point range while doing 3.8km/s+ with an afterburner (w' Bonuses/Overloaded).
well the imp will just suck against a dualprop dramiel/inty that drops the shieldtank for an tracking disruptor. About 7km/s against 3.8km/s good luck. |
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.06.26 18:01:39 -
[41] - Quote
interdiction nullified HIC would be interesting... |
James Zimmer
Furtherance.
42
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Posted - 2015.06.28 01:31:48 -
[42] - Quote
I, like many others, want to see these ships exploding in future AT touraments, so I would like them to be very good and viable, but not too oppressively strong.
The Imp: To me, it doesn't feel Sansha enough. It feels like a buffed Sucubus with some standard interceptor bonusss slapped on, like half-Sansha. Here are some ideas to make it a little cooler and more Sansha:
- The MWD bonus seems out of place for a Sansha ship, and if anyone is going to build an AB interceptor, it's Sansha. Maybe you could go with a slightly higher AB bonus instead, in the 25-30% range. I wouldn't want to push this too far, or it's ability to mitigate damage could get oppressive, even for the alliance tournament, as it already has a high base speed and no sig bloom. - Maybe improve the tracking bonus to 10-12.5% per level and add a 5% optimal range bonus per level to compensate for the higher speeds. 7.5% feels good, but rather common.
The Fiend: I, for one, am excited about the cruiser being a HIC, if only because it's different. However, even at the best of times, HICs are pretty bland. They bubble or point, and then try not to die. I think throwing that idea on its head would be kind of fun, and would give us a better chance of watching these explode next year.
- Sansha uses afterburners and lasers. A good counter to this is get under their guns with an MWD and hit them with blasters. What if the Fiend was an experimental ship specificly designed to counter the MWD/blaster combo? Bubbles and focused disruption prevent the use of MWD/MJDs, at the cost of 60% reduced range of these modules. This would put the bubble right at T2 scram/web range with no ability to heat for range, and the focused disruption just a hair less than Mordu scram with a T2 scram, again, with no ability to beat for range. - Reduce the mass/prop mod penalty to 45%, rather than removing it entirely, in order to balance the ship a bit.
Well there are my two cents. Have fun working on these ships, and thanks for putting up with the loud, obnoxious Eve community. You guys are awesome! |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
40
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Posted - 2015.07.03 15:32:02 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Mates,
The Fiend is a Sansha Hictor. Do we expect players to use the Fiend to tackle supers? Well some special snowflake probably will..but on the whole no. We expect you guys to figure out unique and interesting ways to use them. I'm sure moving with an AB at 2.2km/s+ while having 100k+ EHP and having a bubble up could be used for all sorts of shenanigans.
Cheers, CCP Larrikin
I wanna make something very clear. Given the rarity of the AT prize ships they are not in any way suitable for combat outside of the tournament. Will some moron actually undock it on TQ and pick a fight. Probably....... But can we not design these ships with stupid in mind? Pretty please?
Don't get me wrong I love my Chameleon but I would much rather have had a Rook Gila hybrid than a Falcon Gila hybrid. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13043
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Posted - 2015.07.03 20:07:07 -
[44] - Quote
Joker Dronemaster wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Mates,
The Fiend is a Sansha Hictor. Do we expect players to use the Fiend to tackle supers? Well some special snowflake probably will..but on the whole no. We expect you guys to figure out unique and interesting ways to use them. I'm sure moving with an AB at 2.2km/s+ while having 100k+ EHP and having a bubble up could be used for all sorts of shenanigans.
Cheers, CCP Larrikin I wanna make something very clear. Given the rarity of the AT prize ships they are not in any way suitable for combat outside of the tournament. Will some moron actually undock it on TQ and pick a fight. Probably....... But can we not design these ships with stupid in mind? Pretty please? Don't get me wrong I love my Chameleon but I would much rather have had a Rook Gila hybrid than a Falcon Gila hybrid. If we made an AT prize ship that was much better for tournament use than the current cream of that crop, we'd probably just have to ban AT ships from all future tournaments. So be careful what you wish for.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Kibitt Kallinikov
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
4
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Posted - 2015.07.04 04:58:24 -
[45] - Quote
I like the idea of giving the Imp a stronger tracking bonus, similar to how the Chremoas does for its projectiles. I feel like it would fit an interceptor very well, especially the Imp because pulse lasers have relatively poor tracking and could use some assistance against the drone menace.
In terms of "how can we make this more... Sansha?" I'd say that the lore has plenty of answers. One which I'd like to see would be the part where the ships knit themselves back together. In other words, give them an extra, seperate rate which they heal ALL of their health bars. (Shield/Armor/Structure) - this can go a long ways in either of the roles (HIC/Inty) and could be a powerful endurance bonus which pairs well with their slipperiness, and it wouldn't be too hard to make it so that it isn't oppressively strong.
As for the Imp's MWD bonus, scrap it for a heat reduction one instead. If it's strong enough, you add more endurance to the ship because the more AB cycles it can heat, the more damage it can (hopefully) mitigate. |
Solidus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.07.04 08:04:37 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Joker Dronemaster wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Mates,
The Fiend is a Sansha Hictor. Do we expect players to use the Fiend to tackle supers? Well some special snowflake probably will..but on the whole no. We expect you guys to figure out unique and interesting ways to use them. I'm sure moving with an AB at 2.2km/s+ while having 100k+ EHP and having a bubble up could be used for all sorts of shenanigans.
Cheers, CCP Larrikin I wanna make something very clear. Given the rarity of the AT prize ships they are not in any way suitable for combat outside of the tournament. Will some moron actually undock it on TQ and pick a fight. Probably....... But can we not design these ships with stupid in mind? Pretty please? Don't get me wrong I love my Chameleon but I would much rather have had a Rook Gila hybrid than a Falcon Gila hybrid. If we made an AT prize ship that was much better for tournament use than the current cream of that crop, we'd probably just have to ban AT ships from all future tournaments. So be careful what you wish for.
That's a pretty funny statement when ships like the cambion and malice exist. |
Malakai Asamov
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
36
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Posted - 2015.07.05 10:54:37 -
[47] - Quote
https://www.eve-bet.com |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
31
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Posted - 2015.07.06 05:01:08 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: If we made an AT prize ship that was much better for tournament use than the current cream of that crop, we'd probably just have to ban AT ships from all future tournaments. So be careful what you wish for.
Isn't the point of the AT Ships to offer the game something unique? Currently they're all over the place with bonuses, and a HIC for a 60-150bn isk ship is just ******** and won't see any use in EVE at all.
I think everyone posting here is looking for you to 'improve' the current AT prize ships so that wherever they end up, we can hope that someone who's rich enough will be inclined to undock and use them. Either in the AT or TQ.
To create something that offers no viable application in either TQ or the AT is just a waste of everyone's time, not least of all the competitors who are fighting to win something, or to get a return on their time/isk investment (which is very substantial for most).
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Kadesh Priestess
This Game Is Terrible Warlords of the Deep
476
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Posted - 2015.07.06 10:48:21 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:If we made an AT prize ship that was much better for tournament use than the current cream of that crop, we'd probably just have to ban AT ships from all future tournaments. So be careful what you wish for. They don't have to be more powerful than best existing AT ships. i would even say that making them as powerful as couple of top-tier AT ships would be a mistake.
However, making them less powerful than top tier uniques but following same direction (strong combat capabilities, much stronger than closest t2 combat-specialized variations) would be cool. It might be not even a direct combat capabilities (various simple stats like DPS output/speed/tank) but something else which is cool but still helps them during combat (e.g. mwd-grade speeds with ABs, web resistance, some kind of utility). |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
40
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Posted - 2015.07.10 02:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:If we made an AT prize ship that was much better for tournament use than the current cream of that crop, we'd probably just have to ban AT ships from all future tournaments. So be careful what you wish for.
Disallowing t2 and faction drones already effectively did that to me so I'm cool with you leveling the playing field a little more. |
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Kadesh Priestess
This Game Is Terrible Warlords of the Deep
478
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Posted - 2015.07.10 08:10:14 -
[51] - Quote
Joker Dronemaster wrote:Disallowing t2 and faction drones already effectively did that to me so I'm cool with you leveling the playing field a little more. Conducting tourney on SiSi (where everything is free) with all V chars is much better in this regard, isn't it? |
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
146
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:05:56 -
[52] - Quote
Just a heads up m8s, changes to the Fiend and Imp will be released by the end of next week. Watch this space. |
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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
489
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:15:01 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Just a heads up m8s, changes to the Fiend and Imp will be released by the end of next week. Watch this space.
thanks |
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance
278
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Posted - 2015.08.02 00:22:19 -
[54] - Quote
Nex Gaius wrote: ... Hics are used for 3 things CCP, Tackling supers, Gate camping and Rolling whs they are not usefull ...
I always find it fascinating when people are so enraptured with their own way of playing a specific ship that they disregard entirely how others may use them, and present as glorious statement what is fundamentally only their individual opinion. "I use Hics only for three things CCP... " would have been more appropriate.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
490
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Posted - 2015.08.02 02:50:23 -
[55] - Quote
Saisin wrote:Nex Gaius wrote: ... Hics are used for 3 things CCP, Tackling supers, Gate camping and Rolling whs they are not usefull ...
I always find it fascinating when people are so enraptured with their own way of playing a specific ship that they disregard entirely how others may use them, and present as glorious statement what is fundamentally only their individual opinion. "I use Hics only for three things CCP... " would have been more appropriate.
tbh honest, hics are a gimmick ship. Just make supers tacklable by regular means and turn HICs into something useful or get rid of them all together |
Kadesh Priestess
This Game Is Terrible Warlords of the Deep
479
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Posted - 2015.08.02 09:48:10 -
[56] - Quote
Saisin wrote:Nex Gaius wrote:Hics are used for 3 things CCP, Tackling supers, Gate camping and Rolling whs they are not usefull I always find it fascinating when people are so enraptured with their own way of playing a specific ship that they disregard entirely how others may use them Yeah he forgot ship spinning, the thing 100b+ HIC should really excel at |
Cannery Canoule
War is Bliss
7
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Posted - 2015.08.02 17:45:36 -
[57] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:Saisin wrote:Nex Gaius wrote:Hics are used for 3 things CCP, Tackling supers, Gate camping and Rolling whs they are not usefull I always find it fascinating when people are so enraptured with their own way of playing a specific ship that they disregard entirely how others may use them Yeah he forgot ship spinning, the thing 100b+ HIC should really excel at
Role Bonus: Spins 50% faster |
lolcorpholder alt
Aliastra Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2015.08.07 15:06:05 -
[58] - Quote
Is it friday yet guise? |
DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
490
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Posted - 2015.08.07 17:50:14 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Just a heads up m8s, changes to the Fiend and Imp will be released by the end of next week. Watch this space.
he said the "end of the week" which could be all the way up until Sunday. So dont hold your breath yet lol |
Kadesh Priestess
This Game Is Terrible Warlords of the Deep
479
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Posted - 2015.08.07 19:49:35 -
[60] - Quote
http://pastebin.com/2LYnadvA
Glanced through stats uploaded to sisi a bit, they look like old ones, but with MWD bonuses removed from ceptor, and role bonuses (e.g. tackle cap consumption) removed as well |
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