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Uggster
Caldari
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:28:00 -
[31]
One of the reasons that n00bs are getting into BS's etc faster than they used to is the lure of buying ISK on e-bay etal.
When I started this was hardly even heard of, but now the game is more popular there is an ever growing market with prices dropping.
Still...as others have said blowing up a n00b in a BS with cruiser guns and a couple of basic cargo expanders (for all that kool lewt !!11) is a lot of fun.
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Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Story of my life that one :( |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:42:00 -
[32]
Some people come to EVE and think the end-game is BATTLESHIPS BATTLESHIPS BATTLESHIPS. I can't help but think most of the people who get themselves in one with that mindset find themselves thinking "now what?"
EVE's all about setting your own goals, and if someone's goal is to get themselves into a battleship then that's cool. But people shouldn't do that thinking that's the end of the game, because it's not -- there isn't one. Surprise!
1M SP people in Brutii? 2M in battleships? I'm ok with that. If someone wants to be in a blind rush to get into a ship that size, you know full well they don't have the other skills trained to the point where they'll be effective against anything but Veldspar with mining lasers. And if they lose it and that ruins the game for them, well... who's fault is that? Not the game's.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:42:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Pampinus Medusae
Now, be honest people. What WOULD you do if you were starting out again? It's very easy to point the finger at these guys and say they're progressing too fast, but would you be able to resist? Would you rather get into a brutix at 1M SP and do high end level 2/some level 3 missions for the cash, or would you start low?
i think i'd do the same as i allready did. i have atm 14mio sp. i could fly all t1 frigs, all gallente t2 frigs, all gallente & minmatar cruiser, a few caldari cruiser, gallente and minmatar BC.
can i fly a battleship? nope. do i fly battlecruiser? nope. do i fly cruiser? only if i don't have a spare taranis.
the first two month i was in empire - i did lvl1 and some lvl2 missions in a frig/destroyer while training the learning skills - and beeing the looter in the fast frig for the older player in our corp that were running lvl3 and lvl4 missions .. i got half of the bounties from the missions .. they got the loot and were able to run more missions in the same time - and sometimes the occassional NPC hunt in lowsec. after two month i was bored like hell .. so i joined corp in 0.0 - lucky me .. it was a communistic corp. i helped at mining ops as a hauler. and in PvP as a suicide tackler. got free t1 mods and stuff from corp. no need for me to hunt NPCs in 0.0 the first few month. after several month i was able to fly t2 frigs for PvP and PvE.
tbh - as a newbie you don't need a big ship - you only need a good corp.
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:44:00 -
[34]
Why do you care if the noobs are moving "too fast"? They seem to be having fun. Or maybe you think Eve should be HARD and DEPRESSING and UPHILL BOTH WAYS based on your experience in 2003 when you could only find Veldspar in 0.0 and had to mine it in Velators? [;)]
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Inir Ishtori
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:49:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Inir Ishtori on 23/11/2006 14:51:42
well, getting a new ship gives a sense of achievement, which is quite nice. and you have to start somewhere, getting a feel for different sized ships in general. there are guides in this forums too, so it's not that you fly a battleship fitted with total junk. i was very happy to buy and fly even an industrial ship, because it's a new toy to play with and fun in general.
i'm 3 months old, 4+ mill sp, flying a dominix for lvl 3 missions. it's quite nice and gives me hints where my skills are lacking. brutix was nice too, but buying ammo all the time became very tedious  traveling in my domi through lowsec or ratting there is not wise though, i agree on that.
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R Dan
Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:59:00 -
[36]
personally i dont mind that noobs are flying BS etc.
what i do mind is when they call for things to be nerfed (because they are overpowered) because they couldnt beat them in the megathron built from basic medium mods.
or cry about being killed by a vet in a merlin
(or some other rubbish)
When i started out I had 6 million skill points before i could fly a BS.
why you ask
Because my corp gave it too me at 6 million skill points (providing I had the required skills trained)
why 6 mill? its a good ammount
why after some skill trained? because it means I was able to fly it reasonably
why didnt I buy one myself? LOL as if i could have afforded one by my self! not a chance! I might have been able to buy another cruiser form my funds...maybe...
and that to me is the difference.
Isk is "too easy" to come by these days
when I was young it was so difficult to step higher than your skill level. Because everything was a team effort.
When someone earnt their first BS it was a big achievement - for the whole corp! not just for that person.
in answer to the Op's question
"Now, be honest people. What WOULD you do if you were starting out again? It's very easy to point the finger at these guys and say they're progressing too fast, but would you be able to resist? Would you rather get into a brutix at 1M SP and do high end level 2/some level 3 missions for the cash, or would you start low?"
PvE I'd race up the ship ladder as fast as i could afford too i think.
After all, you want to experience as much as possible as fast as possible - its in most people nature.
for PvP its different. then I'd fly a ship I was skilled to fly.
I will save you, but make sure you bring beer - Wrangler
and cAKe - Imaran |
Cosmar
Gallente
Unified Refining Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.23 15:51:00 -
[37]
I'm a newb still myself.
My "largest" combat ship i own is a Vexor. And my current training direction is more into improving my drone skills for it.
That being said a BC is a bigger cruiser. Especially the Gallente one is a really nice ship all around.
The only reason i don't have one yet is i slacked a bit on the money side and my gunnery skills are not quite so good yet in general.
Being that the cost of the ship is covered by insurence i see no reason why one would happily fly around in a BC as soon as they get the money to upgrade it. And what's wrong with T1 fittings ? It seems to me it's best to stick to T1 except for key components until i can easily compensate for fittings loss.
I'll hold on the battleship a bit as that is a bigger investment in money and skills.
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coldplasma
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.23 17:07:00 -
[38]
Noobs in battlecruisers are about as effective as grease for cleaning up grease. A couple of nights ago, I stripped a noobs brutix of both his shield and armor in a Crow. It took 10mins of pounding, but I got there. I would've been able to finish him off personally if I wasn't rudely interrupted by a couple of pirates :(
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Areconus
Caldari
Cereal Killerz
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Posted - 2006.11.23 18:37:00 -
[39]
Theres a difference between being a true noob and an alt too. I have an alt who got into a raven purely for pve and money making purposes when he had maybe 500k-600ksp. But, i also could afford many items that true noobs cannot so that makes a difference as well.
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Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.11.23 18:47:00 -
[40]
I flew around in a megathron in my third month lol.
I was in 0.0, so i needed it for money. It actually didnt die for 5 months, after i went through a few wars with it.
SP doesnt always matter, the pilot just needs to be smart.
Arrow Capital Ship Sales |
Ralara
Caldari
Reunited
O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.11.23 19:02:00 -
[41]
I was in a raven before I had 1.5m skill points.
I did level 3 missions in them because I couldn't do them in a Ferox (I guess I could do them in a Ferox now, I just don't).
It's great for PvE - I can take any spawn in any system of this game. I can do level 4 missions and in a weekend if I spend the time, I can rack up 300-500 million isk with it.
People who say newbies shouldn't fly battleships or can't fly them are just... wrong. They are a great money maker.
Sure, if you take your BS that can use only heavy launchers into pvp it will likely end up dead, which is why I still only rarely take my raven into pvp - I use assault frigs or cruisers for that (jsut because it's cheaper to replace).
I've got 6 million SP now and am training for HACs. Mind you, I made this character solely for the purpose of missiles, shields and engineering. All my 6m SP are either in learning or geared towards the Raven so I suppose if I was a "normal" character who had more than industry 1, mining 1 etc, I'd be the equivalent of about 8-12m skill points, Raven-wise.
It can easily be done. So easily.
Yes, a Megathron with 250mm guns isn't exactly going to be a threat to most pvp players, but if it gets the user through an otherwise impossible level 3 mission (and face it, some of them ARE hard to do with moderate skills) or lets them rat in 0.0, then good for them!
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Ming Li
Gallente
WarpCorp
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Posted - 2006.11.23 19:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rayvonuk
Originally by: Natas Dog
Long story short: If you're looking to make decent ISK relatively quickly; get into a BS ASAP and snore through most L3 missions, and even L4s if you've got a few friends to bring the DPS. Short of winning the T2 lottery, I'd have to say it's a great way to make ISK.
I dont aggree,
your not gonna make much money loosing a BS on a daily basis because you lack the support skills to fly it even half decently.
Flying a BS with 1-2 million skillpoints is silly when u can chain 0.0 spawns in a cruiser.
each to his own thought i suppose.
The biggest factor though, is the camaraderie from doing these missions together and also seeing how we are getting better over all as our skill points increase and as our understanding of game mechanics and fittings increase. Missions are a great way-IMHO- to test your damage potential. Testing your tankabiity is a whole other ball of wax. No way your going to tank as well against a player with your mission set up
I suppose I should thank Natas for Bullying me into lowsec, huh? 
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WarpCorp wants YOU!! |
Snake Jankins
Minmatar
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.23 23:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 24/11/2006 00:16:23
Originally by: Uggster
One of the reasons that n00bs are getting into BS's etc faster than they used to is the lure of buying ISK on e-bay etal.
Think I flew my Raven with less than 2.5 mil SP, if I remember it right ... but that was after having flown Minmatar BS already.
I've mined my first battleship, a Tempest, myself. SO no ebay. Sold it then, because I couldn't fit it, then I bought a Typhoon and made some missions, missiles worked fine on it, but I couldn't tank any lvl.4 deadspace mission. Good thing was, most missions weren't deadspace. I could do only missions, where I was able to keep the npcs at range with mwd or think it was just an AB. Before each lvl. 4 missions I had to make 100km BMs in my pod for each spawn, otherwise the npcs just rushed towards me and killed me. ( There was no warp to 100km that time. )
So I trained Caldari and for a Raven. 2 weeks or so after starting with Caldari I ran lvl.4 missions with minimum skills in a Raven, also some deadspace.
... But it was before the missile nerf. 1 torp frigate dead, 3 torps cruiser dead ( talking of mission rats, except the better ones ).
Remember that my skills were so weak that I was running like half an hour away from some Mordus rats, shooting and couldn't break the tank. Then new setup, next attempt, happened especially with the Typhoon.
Funny times. 
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'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
eXtas
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:16:00 -
[44]
I dont se a problem for "noobs" to fly bs's when npc'ing... my self was flying a mega in less then a month... and yes I had 250 rails :P but it worked well in 0.0 for npc'ing :) allso been using raven with about 50k sp in missiles :P
but yeah for pvp u want a lot of more skills for every ship else u are just a big target :)
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Lord MuffloN
Caldari
Omen Incorporated
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:18:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Lord MuffloN on 24/11/2006 00:19:56
900k SP a raven, cruise missiles and several hardeners, BCS's PDU's Heavy NOS, do you guys hate me ? </3
There's no place like 127.0.0.1 |
Byzan Zwyth
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:31:00 -
[46]
I jumped into an APOC when I had about 1.5m SP's because I was doing lvl3 missions in a prophecy and it sucked. With lvl1 large energy turrets I could do angel X in like 45-50min when it took me like 3 hours to do it in a BC.
Doing lvl3 missions fast in a BS is very good cash for someone with < 2mil SP's
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I fly
Amarr and Gallente ships
Amarr because they peow peow
- and look cool...
Gallente because they are effective |
MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:46:00 -
[47]
Yes they are... they still get into ships before they are able to fly them and get wtfbbqed.
-=====-
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Deimos Regal
Time Cube Syndicate
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:34:00 -
[48]
Does anyone else get the feeling that there are two different threads going on here?
One being newbs who fly BS into PvP, and the other being newbs who fly BS into PvE.
Well, I happen to be the newb who flys PvE. I have roughly 5 mil SP and can fly a Raven if I wish, or a Cyclone. (How is that for cross-training?) 
Anyway, when I first started EVE, I deleted 3 characters before settling on this one. When I trained this one it was very specific, I trained minmatar for the small ships, and caldari for the big ships. All the while training missiles and engineering as both races benefit greatly from both.
So I guess maybe not everyone is a noob, just a well thought out new player.
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar
DROW Org
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Deimos Regal
Does anyone else get the feeling that there are two different threads going on here?
One being newbs who fly BS into PvP, and the other being newbs who fly BS into PvE.
Well, I happen to be the newb who flys PvE. I have roughly 5 mil SP and can fly a Raven if I wish, or a Cyclone. (How is that for cross-training?)
Anyway, when I first started EVE, I deleted 3 characters before settling on this one. When I trained this one it was very specific, I trained minmatar for the small ships, and caldari for the big ships. All the while training missiles and engineering as both races benefit greatly from both.
So I guess maybe not everyone is a noob, just a well thought out new player.
Hehe, I did exactly the same thing, and the end result is that while I could be much further along in my first choice (Minmatar), I now have the option to fly pretty much any tech I ship under battleship in size in Caldari, Amarr (my latest addition, and wow are they fun), and Minmatar, and battleships in both Caldari and Minmatar.
If I could do things over, I would probably have trained my learning skills up before training Caldari battleship, but otherwise, I think people spend way too much time analyzing Eve-mon and plotting every little skill. I figure it's a game, so have fun. If you think something will be fun, train it, try it out, and the so called "ideal" progression be ******.
J.A.F.O.
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DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:46:00 -
[50]
I had a Battleship at 800k SP. Great choice and really helped me get ahead. I don't see what your problem is with that. I wouldnt' have made nearly as much isk if i didn't put everything into battleships.
__________________________
Why babelfish is bad mmm k
"which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside" |
DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 02:02:00 -
[51]
Edited by: DubanFP on 24/11/2006 02:04:40
btw i have 4 million SP and am a week away from a Recon Cruiser. "though i admit i still have another 2 weeks of training before i can really fit it well". I also own a small PoS that set me back 250 mil. And i bought/maintain it soly so i could have place to store my good while i rat a few jumps away from the buisy sections that my alliance runs.
__________________________
Why babelfish is bad mmm k
"which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside" |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2006.11.24 02:09:00 -
[52]
well... people want a bigger compensation for primary procreational organs as soon as possible. therefore you'll see roughly 50% of the caldari freshmen head for torp-ravens - they're told it's the easiest and it does look "big". too bad they pop in lvl3 silence the informant when they get scrambled...
if i'd ever get around to start an alt, i'd squeeze cybernetics in between the learnings properly. i'd first go for minma&armour instead of shields. otherwise i'd specialize on AF again etc etc
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Mendoria Seltana
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Posted - 2006.11.24 02:25:00 -
[53]
I remember the awesome times right after launch when we were all saying that under 2 mill shouldn't come near a BS :)
Personally, I got my first dominix (which I mined ****ty minerals all the way for, missions sucked at the time :P) at about 2,5-3 mill, and I started using it just as I used my thorax. Large guns were a rarity, so I had one laser and one neutron blaster. Sweet times =)
A little bit on topic now, but back in the day the advancement was frigate->cruiser->battleship, and there was no other ships. Now that there are a LOT more ships and shipclasses, I would think a newbie would be better off to get a tier 2 cruiser and keep training his medium skills rather then a battleship. The step from a cruiser to a battleship is steep, as you have tons of new skills to train before you can come close to flying them efficiently.
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Naylon
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:02:00 -
[54]
I don't think people should complain about noobs in BSs.
It's their game, let them have fun. Teach them a lesson about effectiveness by popping them by all means, but they won't learn otherwise.
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Tonkin
Black Lance
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:57:00 -
[55]
i was flying a raven at 600k sp, but that was nearly 2 years ago when torps where ubber.
i did feel safe in that thing and back then i could afk in low sec and not be bothered. low sec is more dangerus now.
i had a very easy noob life in eve.
i recomend that noobs stay in empire till they have at least 2 mill sp, thats the stage where you are barly understanding how eve plays
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TheDevilsJury
principle of motion
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.11.24 05:10:00 -
[56]
There's absolutely Zero problem with getting into bigger or better ships before you can fly them well.
UNLESS
a) you whine about losing them (espeically how it set you back too much isk... or how you couldn't insure it)
That just comes down to "Fly what you can afford to lose".
or
b) you try to PvP in them
For PvE as long as it tanks the damage then it shouldn't matter what you use. A bigger ship means a better tank and easier fit.
For PvP, especially solo PvP or small group PvP you should bring your best fit. You're bringing down your group or yourself by going out there underskilled.
It's a matter of the isk progression going faster than the skills progression. I don't see a problem with that.
I'm 7.6 million SP. I fly a Curse pretty well. I still haven't progressed to flying a battleship (I'm skilled for T1 Larges and the Geddon, but never had motivation to use it). My Curse, Ishkur, Arbitrator, and Cheetah get all the jobs done I'll ever need.
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
Azrahm Ainarith
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Posted - 2006.11.24 06:23:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Azrahm Ainarith on 24/11/2006 06:26:25
S!
Train supporting skills first before the ship itself, makes you more effective in it. Of course this is a matter of preference and a balance between doing more ISK in harder missions and time used to do so.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Solarflare Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.24 07:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Why do you care if the noobs are moving "too fast"? They seem to be having fun. Or maybe you think Eve should be HARD and DEPRESSING and UPHILL BOTH WAYS based on your experience in 2003 when you could only find Veldspar in 0.0 and had to mine it in Velators? [;)]
On the contrary, we found arkanor in empire...but we DID mine it in velators. I have some left in a hangar somewhere that I mined in Iaokit with an executioner.
~ ~ ~
Signature removed. Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions - Petwraith |
Feng Schui
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:26:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 24/11/2006 08:31:20
Long Story... but a Re-post from something I put up in the Library. Its about me, in a Tech II fitted Rifter, doing some L2 missions, and a noob flying in a battlecruiser
"Hey Feng, could you do me a favor? Looks like there are a couple of Thukker Mercenaries at a secret stargate. We need them destroyed. Don't worry, they're fresh pilots... not even a day old."
Feng looked at Koskuna Jutager, and agreed to accept the mission. Meh, he was bored anyways after the long day of mining, so he would do this for this slacky of an agent. Feng undocked his Class A Rifter. Thinking to himself about how odd it was that a Rifter pilot would be using a Tech II Medium Shield Extender, and a couple of Tech II Shield Amplifers. Not too mention, the best Shield Power Relays that money could buy.
"Feng, do not listen to him! Go to where all Hope is Lost, and find your true destiny!"
Feng used his camera drone to see the station disappear behind him. Feng then positioned the drone so that he could look forward, to where his ship was flying. All of a sudden, the warp bubble collapsed.
"I must listen to him! I must get my body back!"
Feng saw a Cyclone piloted by an unsavory individual. Brute Fighter as he called himself. Feng was thankful that this was high security space, and wouldn't be attacked. If he had his Rupture, he wouldn't worry about it too much. But alas, he was flying a Rifter.
"Remember the words, All Hope is Lost, until it is found!"
Feng accepted the hail from Brute Fighter, "Hey there Feng! Could you do me a favor? i need to test my sheilds out." Feng activated the stargate as he throught to himself... I could easily align to a planet, and then to this secret stargate I was told to rescue.
"Sure Brute Fighter, I can help you. Warp into Abudban. I'll wait for you
here."
"Cool, thanks Feng Schui. Oh, by the way, what kind of gear are you using? Anything good?"
Feng smiled. He knew this was a trap.
"Not really, just a shield extender and some relays. Still using the 150mm Autocannons as well," he replied.
"Do not listen to her Feng, The only way to correct your DNA structure is to follow the trail I lead you to. Do not worry about Sorrow's Gash, it is nothing but trife and despair. You are above that Feng."
Feng saw the Cyclone uncloak, 24km away from him. Feng started to fly towards Brute Fighter, going 325 m/s.
"Feng, you'll need to steal a piece of ammunition from me, so that Concord won't destroy my ship. I'll go ahead and shoot you once, and then you can engage me, ok?"
"Sure, thats no problem."
Feng flew to the jettisoned cannistor, aligned towards Brute Fighter and pre-targetted him. After Feng aligned towards Brute Fighter, he scanned the contents of the cargo container. It was Carbonized Lead M. Feng smiled. He had fitted both kinetic and explosive shield resistance amps on his Rifter.
Feng's ship suddenly shook, and he almost lost control. It seemed that Brute Fighter was also using Widdowmaker Heavy Missles.
"Just great," thought Feng, "What a waste of 12 million isk on a Rifter." Feng looked at his shield read out. Still at 98% shields. "What the hell?" he thought.
Feng orbitted Brute Fighter at 500 meters. "Best to get close, so his medium turrets cannot track me," he thought. Then, he saw Brute Fighter unleash four Valkyrie I drones. Feng grinned. He knew this was a trap.
Feng attempted to warp away. He could not. It seemed that Brute Fighter had warp disrupted him. "****it!" yelled Feng. He looked at his slaver hound, "Sorry old buddy, there's no clone for you. Even if there was, they might turn you into Livestock or something" The slaver hound howled.
"Feng, just remember to follow your instincts. Follow your own path! Not the path of others. Make your own decisions!"
Feng untargetted the Cyclone, now at 78% Shields. Feng looked at his readouts, still at 90%.. 92% now shields. Feng targetted the first Valkyrie. It exploded in 2 shots.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:27:00 -
[60]
He targetted the second drone, and then, the cyclone was gone.
Feng scanned the area, nothing. "Did he jump back into Osoggur I wonder?" Brute Fighter hailed Feng again.
"Why did you destroy my drones Feng!"
"And why did you warp scramble me, and unleash your drones, if all you wanted to do was for me to test your shields, eh?"
"It was an accident! I swear!"
"And why did you use the stargate to go back into Osoggur? Scared that a Rifter would kill your Cyclone Mr. Pirate?"
Brute Fighter ended the communications link.
"It is your choice Feng, forever live in that wretched body of yours, or would you rather correct the DNA structure that those Amarrians fuggered up? What makes you think there are any answers in Sorrow's Gash?"
Feng Schui smiled as he looked at Brute Fighters Pod Pilot information. It seemed that he was 2 months junior to Feng Schui. "He could not have the skills yet to pilot that **** Cyclone.. why even try?"
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