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Pampinus Medusae
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:24:00 -
[1]
My main char is a 3.5M SP caldari who flies gallente. I started my learning skills once I'd gotten into a T2 neutron blaster fitted thorax, at about 1.5M SP if I recall correctly. Now I've done the learning skills and I'm working towards a brutix and taranis.
The thing that amazes me is I learn about newbie characters flying around at 1M SP in brutixes, or 2M in battleships. Why do they do this? I know they feel safe in big ships but its very expensive and surely they'd be mounting crappy guns on them? I mean a small T2 neutron is as powerful as a T1 medium electron blaster with T2 ammo and advanced tracking/speed etc.
Now, be honest people. What WOULD you do if you were starting out again? It's very easy to point the finger at these guys and say they're progressing too fast, but would you be able to resist? Would you rather get into a brutix at 1M SP and do high end level 2/some level 3 missions for the cash, or would you start low?
Just interested, because I'm sure I could take a lot of these people in their Brutix's with my blasterax.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:25:00 -
[2]
I've always gone by one motto which I've heard other people say as well.
Fly what you can afford to lose.
If they can afford to lose it, let them =P
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:27:00 -
[3]
Nothing makes Jesus cry more than a 1.5 mill SP noob flying around in a Megathron.............with 250 Rails on it 
-----------------------------------------------
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Jason Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:33:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Patch86
Nothing makes Jesus cry more than a 1.5 mill SP noob flying around in a Megathron.............with 250 Rails on it
Don't forget about the awsome Medium Shield Booster I!
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Agent Li
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:34:00 -
[5]
I am a n00b. Barely in game a month. I fly a Badger Mk II most of the time (to make money hauling and trading while my skills train).
I am just short of 400k SP.
I fly a Cormorant when I want to do combat, but I don't live very long. Then again, I can afford to lose it (sometimes I do combat in a Condor).
I've found it best not to put too much into the Badger - nothing I could put on it right now would prevent it from being ganked by an experienced player.
Maybe someday when my skill levels are higher, and I have some money on hand, I'll think about a more expensive ship.
BTW, I stopped running NPC missions after the second one. They are incredibly boring, and I make far more money trading.
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Kalvor Azrael
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kalvor Azrael on 21/11/2006 16:38:32
I've got 5M+ SP. I can fly Battleships, but I don't yet. There's a big difference between being able to fly something and being able to fly something well.
Kalvor Azrael
Tahiri Warrior
In the fight for freedom......rust never sleeps |
Father Weebles
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:38:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Father Weebles on 21/11/2006 16:50:39
I never flew a brutix for pvp until i could use tech2 medium blasters, never flew a dominix for pvp until i got tech2 heavy drones, and won't fly a megathron till i can use tech2 blaster cannons (large Hybrid III, Med Blaster Spec I) so about 30 days left.
Why fly a certain ship if you cannot use it to its maximum potential?
To put experience into perspective i have 11.5 million skillpoints
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." |
Father Weebles
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Patch86
Nothing makes Jesus cry more than a 1.5 mill SP noob flying around in a Megathron.............with 250 Rails on it
try tech2 small blasters
man if i wasnt in empire i wouldve popped that ship with no problems in my rax lol
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:41:00 -
[9]
I'm over 6 mil SP and even if I could technically fly a Raven any time I wanted (both skill-wise and financially), I still fly a Ferox (got into it at around 1 mil SP or so, "upgraded" from Caracal which I had gotten into at around 250k SP).
And my next "step" is to get into other BCs rather than moving on to any BS (although BS L2 in each "corresponding" race will get trained ASAP after L4 cruiser).
Why ? No idea, I just don't feel the NEED to move on to BSs. BCs are just fine IMHO.
_____
-sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Natas Dog
Caldari
WarpCorp
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:41:00 -
[10]
I've been capable of flying a BS since about a month and a half in game. Pretty much every moment of my training has been spent furthering my combat effectiveness since then, outside of the learning skill tree. At 1m SP in a scorpion I was able to solo L3 missions with relative ease, whereas in my Ferox I had to be really selective. On top of that, I was able to tank L4 missions for my corpmates once I got it, which would have been a good bit more difficult (more like impossible) in my ferox at that point. It was a means to an end, a way for me to generate enough ISK to allow me to make the move to low sec life comfortably, instead of scraping up the ISK to replace lost ships every time I got unlucky. I truly dig the PvP aspect of EVE, which meant I was left with a few choices:
1. Joining an 0.0 corp/alliance (which I'd still need to meet SP requirements for), and possibly leaving some of my friends behind.
2. Talking my corp into joining an established alliance and effectively being their ***** since our corp is comprised of very new players (less than 1 year old, most less than 6 months), which means logistically we're at everyone's mercy since we don't have the means to move goods in or out of empire easily.
3. Striking out into low sec solo as a corp, and seeing how we fared.
I went with option 3, and it's worked out pretty well. We've made some friends in our chosen region, had some fun scrapes with the local pirates and PvP corps (most pretty one sided, but fun nonetheless), and made ISK all around. We've even set up our own POS and through some creative social engineering have set up fuel and moon mining/reaction deals with some other local POS owners. I find the choice we made as a corp to have been very rewarding, even if some my corp still runs out of high sec. The core group I've got at our low sec base is a pretty solid unit, and we keep getting better with each passing day; both in SPs and in general gang cohesiveness.
Long story short: If you're looking to make decent ISK relatively quickly; get into a BS ASAP and snore through most L3 missions, and even L4s if you've got a few friends to bring the DPS. Short of winning the T2 lottery, I'd have to say it's a great way to make ISK.
_______________________________________________________________
He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about. |
Egil Kolsto
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:46:00 -
[11]
It all depends on what you do and what you enjoy Pampinus.
Personally, I enjoy the friendship of playing with someone else. This being a PVP game the best option is then to get a ship you can afford to loose, join a Corp in low-sec /0.0 and go have fun. This is where the math comes in. You jump down to low-sec too soon, you have very limited ability to make ISK aka replace your loss. I take some pride in being self-sufficient and face it, when you learn the ropes of PvP chances are you will loose a few ships. Also add to the fact that anyone coming into the game now is like years behind the few that started so you have a lot of skill points to make up. So the path for me is pretty clear, high-sec clone in high officer fitted CNR for weekdays, pull in 20-60 M a day during week. Jump into clone for weekend and head to lowsec and loose a few ships and your two implants. With the current prices on +3s there is no reason not to bring a few extra for the skill you are currently learning. The skill gap is the biggest hurdle.
Yes, your blasterax might take out the frigate I will fly in Pvp but I hope to learn something along the way. The two paths of PvP and Isk-generation do not go hand in hand as far as I can see. And until I produce mission times as fast as tiller, I'll have to grind a few more missions before I can afford to send a BS down to low sec.
Safe flying!
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Zeknichov
Amarr
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:50:00 -
[12]
It takes maybe 2M skill points or so to fly a BS for the purpose of ratting in 0.0. This is perfectly acceptable. No point for n00bs to do level 2 missions or so when they can be making 100M in a day of ratting 0.0. For fleet if you aren't using a T2 BS or Cap ship then you are probably in an interceptor. Interceptors are also useful for small gang combat so new players should train for a BS to rat and then train for an interceptor to PvP and then they are pretty much set for life in EVE.
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Rayvonuk
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Natas Dog
Long story short: If you're looking to make decent ISK relatively quickly; get into a BS ASAP and snore through most L3 missions, and even L4s if you've got a few friends to bring the DPS. Short of winning the T2 lottery, I'd have to say it's a great way to make ISK.
I dont aggree,
your not gonna make much money loosing a BS on a daily basis because you lack the support skills to fly it even half decently.
Flying a BS with 1-2 million skillpoints is silly when u can chain 0.0 spawns in a cruiser.
each to his own thought i suppose.
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Natas Dog
Caldari
WarpCorp
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rayvonuk
I dont aggree,
your not gonna make much money loosing a BS on a daily basis because you lack the support skills to fly it even half decently.
Flying a BS with 1-2 million skillpoints is silly when u can chain 0.0 spawns in a cruiser.
each to his own thought i suppose.
I thought about going that route, but I had a hard enough time talking my RL friends into making the leap to low sec, 0.0 was pretty much an impossible sell. I don't like to leave my friends behind, so we compromised. Now we're in a pretty cushy situation for a bunch of nubs who've been playing since the middle of this year, so I've got nothing to make me want to push further towards 0.0. Maybe in another 6 months when we're all sitting on decent bank account and SP totals, I'll try to make the final push into player owned content and 0.0.
_______________________________________________________________
He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about. |
Stud Longcock
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Posted - 2006.11.21 16:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
I've always gone by one motto which I've heard other people say as well.
Fly what you can afford to lose.
If they can afford to lose it, let them =P
Exactly. I was in a Raven at less than 1.5 mil SP. It made level 3 missions easy as hell. If some vet has a problem with my noob arse being in a BS, blow me up or STFU.
Yes, this is an alt. 
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VaMei
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rayvonuk
your not gonna make much money loosing a BS on a daily basis because you lack the support skills to fly it even half decently.
Loosing a cruiser loaded with T2 mods is no less expensive than loosing an insured BS loaded with T1, and the mods for the BS are easier to replace when your deep in 0.0
Originally by: Rayvonuk
Flying a BS with 1-2 million skillpoints is silly when u can chain 0.0 spawns in a cruiser.
Come on out to -.8 space in a cruiser and only 1-2 million SP and chain away at a few tripple BS spawns. I'll put my odds on the player with a BS and T1 fitting out lasting you. |
Tammarr
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:07:00 -
[17]
I do have a 40 days from creation -> 0.0 ratting with a raven =)
Support the poor fellow with a raven, 8-16 hours(10-20m/hour) of ratting later they will pay you back with interest =) No risk to die if they keep an eye at local and are ready to warp away to a ss.
(Ofc I'am currently building "miner of doom(tm)" since I've reached the conclusion come kali there will be no more small raidpacks going into big alliances space so I can mine totaly safe)
But yes, I do feel that given experience and knowledge nothing stops you from flying a ship with bad skills.
The very fact people are told "dont fly it till you can fit t2 guns and tank" would be very discouraging to hear, looking at the possible months of training evemon racks up for you is not fun, esp also being told "you wont be any use till then, just cannon fodder" that is truely a funkiller.
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James Snowscoran
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stud Longcock
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
I've always gone by one motto which I've heard other people say as well.
Fly what you can afford to lose.
If they can afford to lose it, let them =P
Exactly. I was in a Raven at less than 1.5 mil SP. It made level 3 missions easy as hell. If some vet has a problem with my noob arse being in a BS, blow me up or STFU.
Yes, this is an alt.
Thankfully, post-Kali lvl 3 missions will go faster in a drake than in a raven.
-----
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Stud Longcock
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: James Snowscoran
Thankfully, post-Kali lvl 3 missions will go faster in a drake than in a raven.
I rat in 0.0 alliance space in my Raven now. It's a helluva lot more interesting than missions, the pay is better, and I get all kinds of nice parts to play with. I'm at just over 2 mil SP.
Watching local with a deathstar SS ftw.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:20:00 -
[20]
It's quite simple. A battleship fitted like a cruiser is still a more powerful ship than the cruiser.
A raven with 6 heavy missile launchers (no damage bonus - that's only on siege and cruise) does the same damage as a caracal with cruiser 4, but on all the damage types.
You can even fit it with the 2 BCS, and 'cruiser shield tank' and have a better tank too, simply because you have that much more shield, armour, cap and slots.
Yes, it'll get outclassed by ... well anyone who can fly the ship well, but that's true of any ship size at any level.
Of course, let's also not forget the e-peen factor. Mr J. Random, Newbie in his Raven may get totally owned by Mr. Moderately skilled PvPer in his caracal, but your average Guristas arrogator isn't going to be able to succeed.
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Laythun
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:23:00 -
[21]
1 year till i flew a cruiser
2 years till i first flew a bs.
Undercover Brothers
It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 21/11/2006 17:24:48
Originally by: VaMei
Come on out to -.8 space in a cruiser and only 1-2 million SP and chain away at a few tripple BS spawns. I'll put my odds on the player with a BS and T1 fitting out lasting you.
...and I'll be willing to bet that the guy in the AF, along with a Giant Secure Can filled with S ammo will outlast both of them, as well as be able to align and warp out with ease when a pirate comes along to relieve him of his ship.
Originally by: Daniel Jackson
LOLOLOL that *****s me up, BS's doign lv 3 mission :PPP, what the hell is up with that, isent that like illeagle or somethign? LOL, dudse ull find level 3 missins easer iin a caracal or a BC, and well NO im not gonna BLOW you, but im moost certanly happy to BLOW YOU UP :P
(Empty Space - Thinking) |
Daniel Jackson
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Stud Longcock
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
I've always gone by one motto which I've heard other people say as well.
Fly what you can afford to lose.
If they can afford to lose it, let them =P
Exactly. I was in a Raven at less than 1.5 mil SP. It made level 3 missions easy as hell. If some vet has a problem with my noob arse being in a BS, blow me up or STFU.
Yes, this is an alt.
LOLOLOL that *****s me up, BS's doign lv 3 mission :PPP, what the hell is up with that, isent that like illeagle or somethign? LOL, dudse ull find level 3 missins easer iin a caracal or a BC, and well NO im not gonna BLOW you, but im moost certanly happy to BLOW YOU UP :P
___________________
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Skawl
GeoTech
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:23:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Skawl on 21/11/2006 17:25:08
Depends...
I was flying a domi with little over 1mil SP iirc.
I used it for ratting in 0.0 - it was slow but could kill any spawn up to triple 1.5mil BS. I couldn't have done that in any other ship at the time so for what I was doing it was the right choice. The Domi is particularly forgiving of low skills provided you have decent drone skills.
If I started now though I'd go straight for AFs - I mainly fly cruisers and AFs these days and I find it way more fun than BS, although I still doubt my ishkur would break the tank on a 1.5mil BS in any decent amount of time.
EDIT: Thinking about it - I must have had more than 1mil SP, prolly closer 2mill.
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Soumk
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:24:00 -
[25]
Each noob should be given at least 6 million skillpoints so they can compete with older players.
Either that or a banana.
Not sure which would be better.
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Paari Cuman
Windsor Trade Organization
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:26:00 -
[26]
Noobs are supposed to train fast. CCP benefits by keeping players in game longer than the average 6 months. Also, its DESIGNED to catch up with older players.
I don't see this as a problem tho. Noobs in battleships that are a month old are easier to kill. 
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Stud Longcock
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Daniel Jackson
LOLOLOL that *****s me up, BS's doign lv 3 mission :PPP, what the hell is up with that, isent that like illeagle or somethign? LOL, dudse ull find level 3 missins easer iin a caracal or a BC, and well NO im not gonna BLOW you, but im moost certanly happy to BLOW YOU UP :P
Was that english? I sure hope you fly better than you type, or you might just implode yourself. 
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Sonlatur
Minmatar
Matari Raiders
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:36:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Sonlatur on 21/11/2006 17:50:32
I stayed in my good ol' Rifter for quite a while (2 weeks or so). Then i got annoyed that i had to warp out of WC2 (the one with the missile batteries) [edit: it wasnt WC; forgot how the missions were called] so often. So i trained Cruiser, bought a Stabber and mounted some small acs - i had to warp out only once.
The common opinion, "dont fly it before you have super-duper skills in it, otherwise you'll loose it" is wrong. Of course bigger ships are somewhat tricky since they turn slower, but their tank is just much better.
--
"Greetings fellow pod pilot. I am Sonlatur of the Sebiestor tribe and you have become a target in my war against the Evil Amarr Empire. Ransom negotiations are possible." |
Maam
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Posted - 2006.11.21 17:45:00 -
[29]
Noobs are moving way too fast. I was flying my hauler the other day and one flew past me doing at least 1000m/s.
Discraceful I tells ya. Nerf noobs.
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Flitz Farseeker
Gallente
Eve guardians
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:14:00 -
[30]
Got just over 3 mill sp now, so guess I'm still a noob in EvE terms. Can fly combat ships up to a BC and currently training for AFs/Intys and then towards BS. Got a lot of support skills to fill out in the meantime, as well as my gunnery and most importantly my drone skills.
I won't be flying a BS till I get large guns skilled a bit, but I will get one well before I can fit large T2 guns. Hell, I still can't fit small T2 guns on my frigs!
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Uggster
Caldari
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:28:00 -
[31]
One of the reasons that n00bs are getting into BS's etc faster than they used to is the lure of buying ISK on e-bay etal.
When I started this was hardly even heard of, but now the game is more popular there is an ever growing market with prices dropping.
Still...as others have said blowing up a n00b in a BS with cruiser guns and a couple of basic cargo expanders (for all that kool lewt !!11) is a lot of fun.
_______________________________________________
Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Story of my life that one :( |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:42:00 -
[32]
Some people come to EVE and think the end-game is BATTLESHIPS BATTLESHIPS BATTLESHIPS. I can't help but think most of the people who get themselves in one with that mindset find themselves thinking "now what?"
EVE's all about setting your own goals, and if someone's goal is to get themselves into a battleship then that's cool. But people shouldn't do that thinking that's the end of the game, because it's not -- there isn't one. Surprise!
1M SP people in Brutii? 2M in battleships? I'm ok with that. If someone wants to be in a blind rush to get into a ship that size, you know full well they don't have the other skills trained to the point where they'll be effective against anything but Veldspar with mining lasers. And if they lose it and that ruins the game for them, well... who's fault is that? Not the game's.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:42:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Pampinus Medusae
Now, be honest people. What WOULD you do if you were starting out again? It's very easy to point the finger at these guys and say they're progressing too fast, but would you be able to resist? Would you rather get into a brutix at 1M SP and do high end level 2/some level 3 missions for the cash, or would you start low?
i think i'd do the same as i allready did. i have atm 14mio sp. i could fly all t1 frigs, all gallente t2 frigs, all gallente & minmatar cruiser, a few caldari cruiser, gallente and minmatar BC.
can i fly a battleship? nope. do i fly battlecruiser? nope. do i fly cruiser? only if i don't have a spare taranis.
the first two month i was in empire - i did lvl1 and some lvl2 missions in a frig/destroyer while training the learning skills - and beeing the looter in the fast frig for the older player in our corp that were running lvl3 and lvl4 missions .. i got half of the bounties from the missions .. they got the loot and were able to run more missions in the same time - and sometimes the occassional NPC hunt in lowsec. after two month i was bored like hell .. so i joined corp in 0.0 - lucky me .. it was a communistic corp. i helped at mining ops as a hauler. and in PvP as a suicide tackler. got free t1 mods and stuff from corp. no need for me to hunt NPCs in 0.0 the first few month. after several month i was able to fly t2 frigs for PvP and PvE.
tbh - as a newbie you don't need a big ship - you only need a good corp.
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:44:00 -
[34]
Why do you care if the noobs are moving "too fast"? They seem to be having fun. Or maybe you think Eve should be HARD and DEPRESSING and UPHILL BOTH WAYS based on your experience in 2003 when you could only find Veldspar in 0.0 and had to mine it in Velators? [;)]
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Inir Ishtori
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:49:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Inir Ishtori on 23/11/2006 14:51:42
well, getting a new ship gives a sense of achievement, which is quite nice. and you have to start somewhere, getting a feel for different sized ships in general. there are guides in this forums too, so it's not that you fly a battleship fitted with total junk. i was very happy to buy and fly even an industrial ship, because it's a new toy to play with and fun in general.
i'm 3 months old, 4+ mill sp, flying a dominix for lvl 3 missions. it's quite nice and gives me hints where my skills are lacking. brutix was nice too, but buying ammo all the time became very tedious traveling in my domi through lowsec or ratting there is not wise though, i agree on that.
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R Dan
Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:59:00 -
[36]
personally i dont mind that noobs are flying BS etc.
what i do mind is when they call for things to be nerfed (because they are overpowered) because they couldnt beat them in the megathron built from basic medium mods.
or cry about being killed by a vet in a merlin
(or some other rubbish)
When i started out I had 6 million skill points before i could fly a BS.
why you ask
Because my corp gave it too me at 6 million skill points (providing I had the required skills trained)
why 6 mill? its a good ammount
why after some skill trained? because it means I was able to fly it reasonably
why didnt I buy one myself? LOL as if i could have afforded one by my self! not a chance! I might have been able to buy another cruiser form my funds...maybe...
and that to me is the difference.
Isk is "too easy" to come by these days
when I was young it was so difficult to step higher than your skill level. Because everything was a team effort.
When someone earnt their first BS it was a big achievement - for the whole corp! not just for that person.
in answer to the Op's question
"Now, be honest people. What WOULD you do if you were starting out again? It's very easy to point the finger at these guys and say they're progressing too fast, but would you be able to resist? Would you rather get into a brutix at 1M SP and do high end level 2/some level 3 missions for the cash, or would you start low?"
PvE I'd race up the ship ladder as fast as i could afford too i think.
After all, you want to experience as much as possible as fast as possible - its in most people nature.
for PvP its different. then I'd fly a ship I was skilled to fly.
I will save you, but make sure you bring beer - Wrangler
and cAKe - Imaran |
Cosmar
Gallente
Unified Refining Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.23 15:51:00 -
[37]
I'm a newb still myself.
My "largest" combat ship i own is a Vexor. And my current training direction is more into improving my drone skills for it.
That being said a BC is a bigger cruiser. Especially the Gallente one is a really nice ship all around.
The only reason i don't have one yet is i slacked a bit on the money side and my gunnery skills are not quite so good yet in general.
Being that the cost of the ship is covered by insurence i see no reason why one would happily fly around in a BC as soon as they get the money to upgrade it. And what's wrong with T1 fittings ? It seems to me it's best to stick to T1 except for key components until i can easily compensate for fittings loss.
I'll hold on the battleship a bit as that is a bigger investment in money and skills.
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coldplasma
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.23 17:07:00 -
[38]
Noobs in battlecruisers are about as effective as grease for cleaning up grease. A couple of nights ago, I stripped a noobs brutix of both his shield and armor in a Crow. It took 10mins of pounding, but I got there. I would've been able to finish him off personally if I wasn't rudely interrupted by a couple of pirates :(
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Areconus
Caldari
Cereal Killerz
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Posted - 2006.11.23 18:37:00 -
[39]
Theres a difference between being a true noob and an alt too. I have an alt who got into a raven purely for pve and money making purposes when he had maybe 500k-600ksp. But, i also could afford many items that true noobs cannot so that makes a difference as well.
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Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.11.23 18:47:00 -
[40]
I flew around in a megathron in my third month lol.
I was in 0.0, so i needed it for money. It actually didnt die for 5 months, after i went through a few wars with it.
SP doesnt always matter, the pilot just needs to be smart.
Arrow Capital Ship Sales |
Ralara
Caldari
Reunited
O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.11.23 19:02:00 -
[41]
I was in a raven before I had 1.5m skill points.
I did level 3 missions in them because I couldn't do them in a Ferox (I guess I could do them in a Ferox now, I just don't).
It's great for PvE - I can take any spawn in any system of this game. I can do level 4 missions and in a weekend if I spend the time, I can rack up 300-500 million isk with it.
People who say newbies shouldn't fly battleships or can't fly them are just... wrong. They are a great money maker.
Sure, if you take your BS that can use only heavy launchers into pvp it will likely end up dead, which is why I still only rarely take my raven into pvp - I use assault frigs or cruisers for that (jsut because it's cheaper to replace).
I've got 6 million SP now and am training for HACs. Mind you, I made this character solely for the purpose of missiles, shields and engineering. All my 6m SP are either in learning or geared towards the Raven so I suppose if I was a "normal" character who had more than industry 1, mining 1 etc, I'd be the equivalent of about 8-12m skill points, Raven-wise.
It can easily be done. So easily.
Yes, a Megathron with 250mm guns isn't exactly going to be a threat to most pvp players, but if it gets the user through an otherwise impossible level 3 mission (and face it, some of them ARE hard to do with moderate skills) or lets them rat in 0.0, then good for them!
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Ming Li
Gallente
WarpCorp
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Posted - 2006.11.23 19:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rayvonuk
Originally by: Natas Dog
Long story short: If you're looking to make decent ISK relatively quickly; get into a BS ASAP and snore through most L3 missions, and even L4s if you've got a few friends to bring the DPS. Short of winning the T2 lottery, I'd have to say it's a great way to make ISK.
I dont aggree,
your not gonna make much money loosing a BS on a daily basis because you lack the support skills to fly it even half decently.
Flying a BS with 1-2 million skillpoints is silly when u can chain 0.0 spawns in a cruiser.
each to his own thought i suppose.
The biggest factor though, is the camaraderie from doing these missions together and also seeing how we are getting better over all as our skill points increase and as our understanding of game mechanics and fittings increase. Missions are a great way-IMHO- to test your damage potential. Testing your tankabiity is a whole other ball of wax. No way your going to tank as well against a player with your mission set up
I suppose I should thank Natas for Bullying me into lowsec, huh? 
-------------------------------------------------
WarpCorp wants YOU!! |
Snake Jankins
Minmatar
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.23 23:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 24/11/2006 00:16:23
Originally by: Uggster
One of the reasons that n00bs are getting into BS's etc faster than they used to is the lure of buying ISK on e-bay etal.
Think I flew my Raven with less than 2.5 mil SP, if I remember it right ... but that was after having flown Minmatar BS already.
I've mined my first battleship, a Tempest, myself. SO no ebay. Sold it then, because I couldn't fit it, then I bought a Typhoon and made some missions, missiles worked fine on it, but I couldn't tank any lvl.4 deadspace mission. Good thing was, most missions weren't deadspace. I could do only missions, where I was able to keep the npcs at range with mwd or think it was just an AB. Before each lvl. 4 missions I had to make 100km BMs in my pod for each spawn, otherwise the npcs just rushed towards me and killed me. ( There was no warp to 100km that time. )
So I trained Caldari and for a Raven. 2 weeks or so after starting with Caldari I ran lvl.4 missions with minimum skills in a Raven, also some deadspace.
... But it was before the missile nerf. 1 torp frigate dead, 3 torps cruiser dead ( talking of mission rats, except the better ones ).
Remember that my skills were so weak that I was running like half an hour away from some Mordus rats, shooting and couldn't break the tank. Then new setup, next attempt, happened especially with the Typhoon.
Funny times.
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
eXtas
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:16:00 -
[44]
I dont se a problem for "noobs" to fly bs's when npc'ing... my self was flying a mega in less then a month... and yes I had 250 rails :P but it worked well in 0.0 for npc'ing :) allso been using raven with about 50k sp in missiles :P
but yeah for pvp u want a lot of more skills for every ship else u are just a big target :)
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Lord MuffloN
Caldari
Omen Incorporated
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:18:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Lord MuffloN on 24/11/2006 00:19:56
900k SP a raven, cruise missiles and several hardeners, BCS's PDU's Heavy NOS, do you guys hate me ? </3
There's no place like 127.0.0.1 |
Byzan Zwyth
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 00:31:00 -
[46]
I jumped into an APOC when I had about 1.5m SP's because I was doing lvl3 missions in a prophecy and it sucked. With lvl1 large energy turrets I could do angel X in like 45-50min when it took me like 3 hours to do it in a BC.
Doing lvl3 missions fast in a BS is very good cash for someone with < 2mil SP's
----------------------
I fly
Amarr and Gallente ships
Amarr because they peow peow
- and look cool...
Gallente because they are effective |
MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:46:00 -
[47]
Yes they are... they still get into ships before they are able to fly them and get wtfbbqed.
-=====-
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Deimos Regal
Time Cube Syndicate
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:34:00 -
[48]
Does anyone else get the feeling that there are two different threads going on here?
One being newbs who fly BS into PvP, and the other being newbs who fly BS into PvE.
Well, I happen to be the newb who flys PvE. I have roughly 5 mil SP and can fly a Raven if I wish, or a Cyclone. (How is that for cross-training?) 
Anyway, when I first started EVE, I deleted 3 characters before settling on this one. When I trained this one it was very specific, I trained minmatar for the small ships, and caldari for the big ships. All the while training missiles and engineering as both races benefit greatly from both.
So I guess maybe not everyone is a noob, just a well thought out new player.
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar
DROW Org
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Deimos Regal
Does anyone else get the feeling that there are two different threads going on here?
One being newbs who fly BS into PvP, and the other being newbs who fly BS into PvE.
Well, I happen to be the newb who flys PvE. I have roughly 5 mil SP and can fly a Raven if I wish, or a Cyclone. (How is that for cross-training?)
Anyway, when I first started EVE, I deleted 3 characters before settling on this one. When I trained this one it was very specific, I trained minmatar for the small ships, and caldari for the big ships. All the while training missiles and engineering as both races benefit greatly from both.
So I guess maybe not everyone is a noob, just a well thought out new player.
Hehe, I did exactly the same thing, and the end result is that while I could be much further along in my first choice (Minmatar), I now have the option to fly pretty much any tech I ship under battleship in size in Caldari, Amarr (my latest addition, and wow are they fun), and Minmatar, and battleships in both Caldari and Minmatar.
If I could do things over, I would probably have trained my learning skills up before training Caldari battleship, but otherwise, I think people spend way too much time analyzing Eve-mon and plotting every little skill. I figure it's a game, so have fun. If you think something will be fun, train it, try it out, and the so called "ideal" progression be ******.
J.A.F.O.
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DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:46:00 -
[50]
I had a Battleship at 800k SP. Great choice and really helped me get ahead. I don't see what your problem is with that. I wouldnt' have made nearly as much isk if i didn't put everything into battleships.
__________________________
Why babelfish is bad mmm k
"which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside" |
DubanFP
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 02:02:00 -
[51]
Edited by: DubanFP on 24/11/2006 02:04:40
btw i have 4 million SP and am a week away from a Recon Cruiser. "though i admit i still have another 2 weeks of training before i can really fit it well". I also own a small PoS that set me back 250 mil. And i bought/maintain it soly so i could have place to store my good while i rat a few jumps away from the buisy sections that my alliance runs.
__________________________
Why babelfish is bad mmm k
"which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside" |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 02:09:00 -
[52]
well... people want a bigger compensation for primary procreational organs as soon as possible. therefore you'll see roughly 50% of the caldari freshmen head for torp-ravens - they're told it's the easiest and it does look "big". too bad they pop in lvl3 silence the informant when they get scrambled...
if i'd ever get around to start an alt, i'd squeeze cybernetics in between the learnings properly. i'd first go for minma&armour instead of shields. otherwise i'd specialize on AF again etc etc
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Mendoria Seltana
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Posted - 2006.11.24 02:25:00 -
[53]
I remember the awesome times right after launch when we were all saying that under 2 mill shouldn't come near a BS :)
Personally, I got my first dominix (which I mined ****ty minerals all the way for, missions sucked at the time :P) at about 2,5-3 mill, and I started using it just as I used my thorax. Large guns were a rarity, so I had one laser and one neutron blaster. Sweet times =)
A little bit on topic now, but back in the day the advancement was frigate->cruiser->battleship, and there was no other ships. Now that there are a LOT more ships and shipclasses, I would think a newbie would be better off to get a tier 2 cruiser and keep training his medium skills rather then a battleship. The step from a cruiser to a battleship is steep, as you have tons of new skills to train before you can come close to flying them efficiently.
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Naylon
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:02:00 -
[54]
I don't think people should complain about noobs in BSs.
It's their game, let them have fun. Teach them a lesson about effectiveness by popping them by all means, but they won't learn otherwise.
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Tonkin
Black Lance
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:57:00 -
[55]
i was flying a raven at 600k sp, but that was nearly 2 years ago when torps where ubber.
i did feel safe in that thing and back then i could afk in low sec and not be bothered. low sec is more dangerus now.
i had a very easy noob life in eve.
i recomend that noobs stay in empire till they have at least 2 mill sp, thats the stage where you are barly understanding how eve plays
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TheDevilsJury
principle of motion
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.11.24 05:10:00 -
[56]
There's absolutely Zero problem with getting into bigger or better ships before you can fly them well.
UNLESS
a) you whine about losing them (espeically how it set you back too much isk... or how you couldn't insure it)
That just comes down to "Fly what you can afford to lose".
or
b) you try to PvP in them
For PvE as long as it tanks the damage then it shouldn't matter what you use. A bigger ship means a better tank and easier fit.
For PvP, especially solo PvP or small group PvP you should bring your best fit. You're bringing down your group or yourself by going out there underskilled.
It's a matter of the isk progression going faster than the skills progression. I don't see a problem with that.
I'm 7.6 million SP. I fly a Curse pretty well. I still haven't progressed to flying a battleship (I'm skilled for T1 Larges and the Geddon, but never had motivation to use it). My Curse, Ishkur, Arbitrator, and Cheetah get all the jobs done I'll ever need.
^^^^ Certified Anti-CHON Fit ^^^^ |
Azrahm Ainarith
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Posted - 2006.11.24 06:23:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Azrahm Ainarith on 24/11/2006 06:26:25
S!
Train supporting skills first before the ship itself, makes you more effective in it. Of course this is a matter of preference and a balance between doing more ISK in harder missions and time used to do so.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Solarflare Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.24 07:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vasiliyan
Why do you care if the noobs are moving "too fast"? They seem to be having fun. Or maybe you think Eve should be HARD and DEPRESSING and UPHILL BOTH WAYS based on your experience in 2003 when you could only find Veldspar in 0.0 and had to mine it in Velators? [;)]
On the contrary, we found arkanor in empire...but we DID mine it in velators. I have some left in a hangar somewhere that I mined in Iaokit with an executioner.
~ ~ ~
Signature removed. Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions - Petwraith |
Feng Schui
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:26:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Feng Schui on 24/11/2006 08:31:20
Long Story... but a Re-post from something I put up in the Library. Its about me, in a Tech II fitted Rifter, doing some L2 missions, and a noob flying in a battlecruiser
"Hey Feng, could you do me a favor? Looks like there are a couple of Thukker Mercenaries at a secret stargate. We need them destroyed. Don't worry, they're fresh pilots... not even a day old."
Feng looked at Koskuna Jutager, and agreed to accept the mission. Meh, he was bored anyways after the long day of mining, so he would do this for this slacky of an agent. Feng undocked his Class A Rifter. Thinking to himself about how odd it was that a Rifter pilot would be using a Tech II Medium Shield Extender, and a couple of Tech II Shield Amplifers. Not too mention, the best Shield Power Relays that money could buy.
"Feng, do not listen to him! Go to where all Hope is Lost, and find your true destiny!"
Feng used his camera drone to see the station disappear behind him. Feng then positioned the drone so that he could look forward, to where his ship was flying. All of a sudden, the warp bubble collapsed.
"I must listen to him! I must get my body back!"
Feng saw a Cyclone piloted by an unsavory individual. Brute Fighter as he called himself. Feng was thankful that this was high security space, and wouldn't be attacked. If he had his Rupture, he wouldn't worry about it too much. But alas, he was flying a Rifter.
"Remember the words, All Hope is Lost, until it is found!"
Feng accepted the hail from Brute Fighter, "Hey there Feng! Could you do me a favor? i need to test my sheilds out." Feng activated the stargate as he throught to himself... I could easily align to a planet, and then to this secret stargate I was told to rescue.
"Sure Brute Fighter, I can help you. Warp into Abudban. I'll wait for you
here."
"Cool, thanks Feng Schui. Oh, by the way, what kind of gear are you using? Anything good?"
Feng smiled. He knew this was a trap.
"Not really, just a shield extender and some relays. Still using the 150mm Autocannons as well," he replied.
"Do not listen to her Feng, The only way to correct your DNA structure is to follow the trail I lead you to. Do not worry about Sorrow's Gash, it is nothing but trife and despair. You are above that Feng."
Feng saw the Cyclone uncloak, 24km away from him. Feng started to fly towards Brute Fighter, going 325 m/s.
"Feng, you'll need to steal a piece of ammunition from me, so that Concord won't destroy my ship. I'll go ahead and shoot you once, and then you can engage me, ok?"
"Sure, thats no problem."
Feng flew to the jettisoned cannistor, aligned towards Brute Fighter and pre-targetted him. After Feng aligned towards Brute Fighter, he scanned the contents of the cargo container. It was Carbonized Lead M. Feng smiled. He had fitted both kinetic and explosive shield resistance amps on his Rifter.
Feng's ship suddenly shook, and he almost lost control. It seemed that Brute Fighter was also using Widdowmaker Heavy Missles.
"Just great," thought Feng, "What a waste of 12 million isk on a Rifter." Feng looked at his shield read out. Still at 98% shields. "What the hell?" he thought.
Feng orbitted Brute Fighter at 500 meters. "Best to get close, so his medium turrets cannot track me," he thought. Then, he saw Brute Fighter unleash four Valkyrie I drones. Feng grinned. He knew this was a trap.
Feng attempted to warp away. He could not. It seemed that Brute Fighter had warp disrupted him. "****it!" yelled Feng. He looked at his slaver hound, "Sorry old buddy, there's no clone for you. Even if there was, they might turn you into Livestock or something" The slaver hound howled.
"Feng, just remember to follow your instincts. Follow your own path! Not the path of others. Make your own decisions!"
Feng untargetted the Cyclone, now at 78% Shields. Feng looked at his readouts, still at 90%.. 92% now shields. Feng targetted the first Valkyrie. It exploded in 2 shots.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:27:00 -
[60]
He targetted the second drone, and then, the cyclone was gone.
Feng scanned the area, nothing. "Did he jump back into Osoggur I wonder?" Brute Fighter hailed Feng again.
"Why did you destroy my drones Feng!"
"And why did you warp scramble me, and unleash your drones, if all you wanted to do was for me to test your shields, eh?"
"It was an accident! I swear!"
"And why did you use the stargate to go back into Osoggur? Scared that a Rifter would kill your Cyclone Mr. Pirate?"
Brute Fighter ended the communications link.
"It is your choice Feng, forever live in that wretched body of yours, or would you rather correct the DNA structure that those Amarrians fuggered up? What makes you think there are any answers in Sorrow's Gash?"
Feng Schui smiled as he looked at Brute Fighters Pod Pilot information. It seemed that he was 2 months junior to Feng Schui. "He could not have the skills yet to pilot that **** Cyclone.. why even try?"
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 09:27:00 -
[61]
Rule 1: Fly what you can afford to lose*
Rule 2: Fly what you want, fitted how you want, when you want, where you want.
Rule 3: There are no other rules.
*This may or may not be defined purely in ISK terms
People who go on about only flying ships when you can use them to their maximum potential annoy the crap out of me. It actually makes no sense. In no particular order:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun.
There are going to be situations where a badly fitted BS will serve you better than a excellently fitted cruiser.
The idea that you shouldn't fly a ship before being able to fit it optimally supports this idea of SP>Player Skill. Far better to fly a ship from when you can afford to, learning how to pilot it effectively, and improving your setup as you train to allow you to take on progesively tougher situations.
If you are not a deciated PvPer but simply want some PvP assets to your name, you will have more important things to be training than Obscure Skill That Gives 2% Bonus Lv.5.
Only flying ships when you can fit appropriate T2 guns makes the T1 guns fairly pointess. They exist for a reason. If you were meant to either fly something or not, there would only be one level of each skill. There are shades of grey between 'Unable To Fly' and 'My Little Solopwnmobile'
----------
IBTL \o/
It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it? |
Flitz Farseeker
Gallente
Eve guardians
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Posted - 2006.11.24 10:28:00 -
[62]
For level 3 missions, I'll take out my Brutix. They can sometimes be tough, but I know the odds. For PVP, I fly a Thorax. My cruiser skills are a bit more rounded and more importantly I can afford to lose it.
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2006.11.24 11:09:00 -
[63]
If noobs are moving to fast, use Webbers
Usually for PVE, bigger is better. It's easier to rat in a Raven or other noobship then to try it in a Cruiser or Frigate.
For PVP, you need a large ammount of sp's to be really effective in a BS, but then again, people like me usually learn what they need fitted and trained by using a ship, so I can occassionally be found in a BS.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.11.24 11:46:00 -
[64]
I would say yes.
Most players are too eager to jump into ships they cant fly so they spend a lot of time training up Spaceship Command skills and not enuf time training up the necessary support skills tp fly those ships well.
They just train the minimum skills required to jump into it, fly somewhere dangerous and get popped !
When you see one year old players flying around in tech 1 cruisers and battlecruisers that should make you stop and think - Why are they still flying a ship a year into the game that I can jump into within a week of starting playing ?
Cos the effectiveness of a ship improves with your SP. So even tech 1 ships are useful to older players -especially for piracy as disposable gankers.
So bear in mind that while you THINK you can take on that thorax in your Brutix that you just bought (cos clearly Brutix > Rax right ?) you probably CANT if the player is much older than you....
I took the slow and steady approach and learned to fly ALL the ships (for my race) in EACH class. As a result I am now 7mths old and have only just got into my first battleship ! However, I would not expect everyone to do as I did.
For new players to EVE here is a rough guide to what I would fly, with what SP and when :
1st mth - upto 1mill SP
Fly Frigates only (Essential for lvl 1 missions. They are cheap and easy to fly/fit with low skills making them ideal for new players. You should be training learning skills anyway, so won't be able to fly anything else)
2nd mth - min 2mill SP
Add Destroyers (You should still be training learning, so can't fly much else. You can arguably skip destroyers but if you REALLY want to fly something new then give them a try but be aware they are made of paper !)
3rd mth - min 3mill SP
Add Cruisers (Essential for lvl 2 missions. The most versatile ships in the game. You will be flying these for a long time. The key is not to jump into them too soon.)
4th mth - min 4mill SP
Add Battlecruisers (Essential for lvl 3 missions and add extra firepower in PvP but warp very slowly and a ahrd to fit so need good skills to be effective in PvP)
5th mth - min 5mill SP
Add Battleships (The mainstay of fleets and essential to prosper in 0.0. Essential for lvl 4 missions. By now you should also be thinking about which Tech2 ships you want to aim for)
Obviously, if you decide to aim for a specific Tech2 ship right from thestart then you can just train for that instead but most players will want to work slowly upto Battleship (making ISK along the way) before jumping into expensive Tech 2 ships.
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Sapphron Dei
Gallente
Solid Ind.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 11:49:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Pampinus Medusae
The thing that amazes me is I learn about newbie characters flying around at 1M SP in brutixes, or 2M in battleships. Why do they do this? I know they feel safe in big ships but its very expensive and surely they'd be mounting crappy guns on them? I mean a small T2 neutron is as powerful as a T1 medium electron blaster with T2 ammo and advanced tracking/speed etc.
Sapphron here has a little under 1 mill SP and I pilot a Brutix.
No problem there and easily replaced if lost.
My other alt flies a Ferox.
I dont have a spectaculair income but i do make between 7-9 million in 2.5 hours (using 2 accounts to mine).
Also, if you know half what your doing and set specific goals you can train towards them instead of randomly starting to learn all sorts of skills.
I can mine relatively fast and refine at 90.5%, fly my Brutix + Ferox and make ratting in low sec (0.3-0.4) easy for myself.
And no - I dont mount all too crappy guns on them.
¿Noobs¿ can do better than one might think, as long as they have a plan and a goal to work towards.
-Solid Ind.: AMPS - ADC supporters!
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Sapphron Dei
Gallente
Solid Ind.
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 11:57:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Sapphron Dei on 24/11/2006 12:01:49
Edited by: Sapphron Dei on 24/11/2006 12:00:37
Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Long story about what one should and should not fly with specific amounts of SP
As far as PvE goes:
No, id absolutely disagree with flying only frigs till you get 1 mill SP.
Cruisers and Destroyers are viable options as well.
I also disagree with the battlecruiser opinion here.
Why wait till you get 4 mill Sp if you can obtain them for your own specific reasons?
If they serve your personal purpose effectively its money well spent.
I do tend to agree more with the battleship section, altho the 5 mill SP is overboard to me.
But its all about personal preference.
As for piracy - I would agree more on these given suggestions.
Just my 2 cents..
(Small note: I do agree with sticking with a shiptype at some point. to me its the BC. extremely versatile and not too expensive.)
-Solid Ind.: AMPS - ADC supporters!
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Luke Pubcrawler
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 12:09:00 -
[67]
I have around 5mill SP now and regularly fly BS and am glad I do as it lets me pick the right tool for the job.
Missions - I got to Destroyer asap an blated thro level ones. Into a cruiser as soon as lvl 2s 2 were offered and blasted thro them with small guns. Earned me money, LP and standing. By the time I got lvl 3s at a bout a mill SP I was flying a Raven with Heavys and as much tank as I could fit. Worked well. For missions a noob wants a nice big ship for overkill. I know this makes the vets whine but it works.
PvP - now here thngs are different. I mostly PvP in frigates still. If I lose I lose. However I am glad I can fly cruisers and BS even in PvP. Why? So I can help out my corp in a Blackbird or Scorpion. You don't need to be 10mill vet to be usefulin one of them. At 1 mil SP I flew a Blackbird in corp war and did some good in it. Sure a vet in one would have done better but a 1mill player in a BB is more useful than one in a Merlin or cormorant.
Players should fly what they want and what suits them. Elitist ideas about only flying with ideal setups should be ignored.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 12:14:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 24/11/2006 12:15:48
Originally by: Cletus Graeme
1st mth - upto 1mill SP
Fly Frigates only (Essential for lvl 1 missions. They are cheap and easy to fly/fit with low skills making them ideal for new players. You should be training learning skills anyway, so won't be able to fly anything else)
2nd mth - min 2mill SP
Add Destroyers (You should still be training learning, so can't fly much else. You can arguably skip destroyers but if you REALLY want to fly something new then give them a try but be aware they are made of paper !)
3rd mth - min 3mill SP
Add Cruisers (Essential for lvl 2 missions. The most versatile ships in the game. You will be flying these for a long time. The key is not to jump into them too soon.)
4th mth - min 4mill SP
Add Battlecruisers (Essential for lvl 3 missions and add extra firepower in PvP but warp very slowly and a ahrd to fit so need good skills to be effective in PvP)
5th mth - min 5mill SP
Add Battleships (The mainstay of fleets and essential to prosper in 0.0. Essential for lvl 4 missions. By now you should also be thinking about which Tech2 ships you want to aim for)
Obviously, if you decide to aim for a specific Tech2 ship right from thestart then you can just train for that instead but most players will want to work slowly upto Battleship (making ISK along the way) before jumping into expensive Tech 2 ships.
W T F
Anyone who listens to this should be banned from the game for stupidity.
Edit: I have, in order to be fair, now read thoroughly through his post rather than skimming over it, and would like to add another WTF.
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IBTL \o/
It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it? |
Hilder
Amarr
Magnetar Ltd
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:03:00 -
[69]
As a new player I get a little tired hearing vets brow-beating all us poor nubs.
Why should we have to play the game for a year or more before we can fly a decent ship?
I accept that one of the main aspects of EVE gameplay is PvP. But there are also many other sides of the game which don't require millions of skill points to enjoy.
Personally I have 2.5 million SP after about 3 months in-game and yes I do have a Battleship. I didn't fly it until I could fit Large Energy turrets, I'm sure not going to be mooching around 0.0 looking for a fight. But I'm sure if I did I'd fair better in my BS than in the cruiser a previous poster believes players of my level should be flying.
This game is a sand-box so really everyone should be able to play as they see fit, and although I apologise to anyone who is genuinely trying to offer new players constuctive advice. In my own view, the real substance behind a lot of this criticism is a thinly veiled elitism i.e. New players like me should know our place and leave all the best toys in the hands of ppl who happen to have been playing the game for years. An attitude which I couldn't disagree with more, if this was really the case there would be no point in new players even starting the game in the first place.
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Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...
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Kibed Dulick
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:09:00 -
[70]
3.5 mill sp and i carnt even fly a cruiser well yet
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Benglada
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.24 13:13:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Father Weebles
Edited by: Father Weebles on 21/11/2006 16:50:39
I never flew a brutix for pvp until i could use tech2 medium blasters, never flew a dominix for pvp until i got tech2 heavy drones, and won't fly a megathron till i can use tech2 blaster cannons (large Hybrid III, Med Blaster Spec I) so about 30 days left.
Why fly a certain ship if you cannot use it to its maximum potential?
To put experience into perspective i have 11.5 million skillpoints
Im pretty well the same, i wont fly a ship unless i can pimp it
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Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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Mush Room
Caldari
Svea Rike
Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2006.11.24 14:58:00 -
[72]
I'm a 3m SP char and I fly a Raven. 0 sp in anything but combat skills though. Do I win some sort of prize now? :D
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:42:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Cletus Graeme
lot's of stuff
First: Why would anyone train up that specific path? I personally never set foot in a Destroyer, nor BC (though I trained it up when I heard of the Hurricane). I fly BS at times though.
Second: for all the new people doing PVE or hugging empire, it's probably bad advise. My alt can run Level 3's and some 4's with really crappy combat skills (~1 M or so, divided between Shield Tanking and Missiles) and in a Raven he can pop any belt rat up to 1.85M. If mining is your thing, getting in a mining Cruiser ASAP or go straight toward a Poc or Domi will help you make a lot more ISK then spending months in Frigs and Dessies.
Third: Looking back, it's easy to say: 'OMG, what was I doing in a Medium Gun fitted Battleship in my second month', but as a new player, how are you to know what support skills / weapon skills you need trained to fly a ship well? Best way to value the benefit of some of the skills is stepping into a ship and actually try to fly it, at least it is for me. .
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Rojita
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:51:00 -
[74]
Nothing is more pointless than trying to dictate how somebody else should play the game.
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:56:00 -
[75]
Edited by: St Dragon on 24/11/2006 15:56:36
Once some newb was pirating at a gate i killed him with my destroyer because all he ahad fitted was some 150mm rails and a civillian shield booster
EDIT:- forgot to say he was in a scorpion.
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:58:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Patch86
Nothing makes Jesus cry more than a 1.5 mill SP noob flying around in a Megathron.............with 250 Rails on it
i did that once. 2 years ago.
Quote:
"Don't touch the RED butt |
Sammy Xan
Caldari
Order of the Storm
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:01:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Noobs are moving way too fast. I was flying my hauler the other day and one flew past me doing at least 1000m/s.
That was probably me in my Sigil (4-5 MAPCs and the MWD will fit ...  )
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:46:00 -
[78]
All the trolls and flamers who replied to my post can ignore this one too - it isn't addressed to you either
(1) Nobody is dictating anything to anybody. I am offering my opinion with my reasons for it in reply to the OP. I see many young players flying ships they can barely afford or fit. They are just asking to lose them. Still, if that's what they want to do that's their perogative.
(2) My advice was general & therefore encompasses both PvP & PvE. I don't believe in flying ships for just one or the other. I have followed it myself to a certain extent so I knaow it works. It's not the only way to train of course but it should go someway to ensuring that you arent flying ships you are likely to lose.
(3) The skillpath I listed is the most common and most general for players new to the game. Obviously I can't list all possibilities and as I said, if you know what you want to fly you can train specifically for that - but most new players don't. I STILL am not sure myself !
My advice remains the same.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:52:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
W T F
Anyone who listens to this should be banned from the game for stupidity.
Edit: I have, in order to be fair, now read thoroughly through his post rather than skimming over it, and would like to add another WTF.
You sir, are a troll - plain and simple.
You remarks aren't witty or even funny. If you actually have something to say then come out and say it. But if all you can manage is "WTF" then please crawl back into your hole
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Rooker
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:52:00 -
[80]
I'm at 1.5mil SP flying a Brutix for lvl3s and having a blast with it. I won't leave high sec in it just yet, but for PVE it's great. I lost the first one a couple weeks ago because my tanking skills weren't nearly good enough. Right now though, I can tank nearly all lvl3 missions and a few lvl4s.
I'll get my learning skills to 5 now and get all the supporting skills up to 4 or 5 before moving into anything larger than this. I want to get a Domi, but yeah..... Not even buying the battleships skill book until I think I can fit one properly.
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Combat: Tuxford's 500MM Autocannon Nerfbat II strikes your blastarax perfectly, wrecking for omgwtfnerfed! |
Karille
Lordless
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Posted - 2006.11.24 19:39:00 -
[81]
How about me gatecamping at 1.5 mil sp in a megathron. can i win some sort of noobs moving too fast award? it had LARGE blasters and killed battlecruisers under sentry fire can you please stop complaining about what you think noobs can and cant do?
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