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Areconus
Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:58:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Areconus on 21/11/2006 23:57:54
Originally by: Leandro Salazar TBH if they hadn't nerfed the Hurricane before this, I would applaud this change. Now I only feel resentment though.
Totally f***king agreed
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
Albrecht Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:03:00 -
[62]
So when everyone whines about the same we have finally reached balance? God there has to be a better way... ------------------------------------- Join "TKI-net"/"Directivenet" for more information |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
It is not so much that it is overpowered, but it is that Gallenteans whine about their Myrmidon being too weak and the other BCs too strong. That resulting first in getting the Myrm a boost (-2 high +1 low is a boost for that kind of ship imho), then the Drake (which needed a nerf but not the pounding it got) and Hurricane (which was quite fine thank you) nerfed, and now ANOTHER boost for the Myrmidon.
And now you want people who looked very forward to a great Hurricane and/or Drake to be happy campers because Gallente whining is the i-win button on the forums lately? The only thing this kind of treatment by CCP will generate is more hatred towards those they clearly favor. Caldari at least got the Rokh to look forward to, but us Minnies?
But it is prolly my fault, CCP seems to be on a rampage to nerf everything I like about EVE. I apologize to everyone affected about loving Minmatar ships.
I just don't see it. I'm flying a Hurricane right now (I can fly all four races on test) with T1 guns and T2 everything else. The Hurricane rocks. I'm using an MWD/AC setup and man, that CAP BUFF!!! OMG!! The Hurricane has a HUGE cap compared to it's requirements for tanking/shooting! I can tanke for DAYS! It's so much better than a ship that needs cap for it's guns. I almost fall asleep managing a fight because I'm not constantly fretting over cap.
With some T2 guns (which I'm training) this thing will shred.
Because I said so...
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:23:00 -
[64]
I didn't say the Hurricane sucks, but compared to the great (but not overpowered) ship it was with 7 turrets it now is just decent. And I am considering it for use with Arties, not ACs. With ACs you can replace the lost turret with a Nos or Neut and not lose much efficiency I guess. With arties, losing 7th turret hurts more. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Irimi Nage
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:40:00 -
[65]
I am very tempted to see what happens with a myrm fitted like I fit my ishtar.
ACs/arties and nos in highs, EW in meds, 1600 and lots of passive hardeners in lows.
While BCs have more cap than HACs so it might be worth running a more active setup, the ability to survive being nos'd to **** may be worth testing.
For those complaining about the extra drone bay, it was needed, really, it was. Myrm won't be the best BC, it will be a useful BC now. ---
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:18:00 -
[66]
The drone bay increase is a welcome change for a Myrmidon that was gimped from the beginning.
For those claiming the Myrmidon is now overpowered against the other BCs, I can say that this is not true. I've done the math in the BC thread (around page 25 I believe) and the damage increase for a player with maxed drone skills against average resist using 5 Ogre IIs (which do max DPS of all drones) instead of the previous 4 is 68.91 DPS, that is, 5 Ogre IIs will now do 344.53 DPS against the 275.62 DPS of 4 Ogre IIs.
That's it! A measly increase of less than 70 DPS at (un)godly skills. The total drone DPS under these conditions will be less than 350 DPS. If one compares this with T2 launchers, one can not but abmit: its pathetic.
The only way, the Myrmidon can increase its DPS is by fitting guns. For this, it has no bonus. Repeat: no bonus.
The highest DPS the Myrmidon can add is by using blasters. There are a number of problems with trying to make a blaster/drone boat out of the Myrmidon: 1. Blasters have high fitting needs while the Myrmidon has low fitting capabilities 2. Blasters are close range weapons while the Myrmidon has low velocity, has low agility, and a huge sig radius
Let's face it, fitting the Myrmidon as a blaster boat is PvP suicide. It is simply not viable (I'm not even going into the nerfed T2 ammo).
Add to this the following remarks: 1. Drones are still broken (see the drone whinage thread) 2. Drones will become more vulnerable with the HP increase 3. The Myrmidon has one less slot to fit than the other BCs 4. When using 5 heavies, the Myrmidon has no backups (and a drone boat without drones is a dead drone boat)
From the above one can conclude only one thing: the Myrmidon's DPS in a non-suicidal fit will be average at best compared with the other BCs, both T1 and T2. To be entirely honest, I still think that the Myrmidon will lack staying power in a fight, and I do mean PvP. But then again, I do not know exactly because I can't seem to log onto Sisi right now to test it (hangs in station?).
I'm sorry your Drake got nerfed. Maybe it got nerfed too much. I honestly can't tell. I can tell you what I think helped convince the devs to ungimp the Myrmidon though: reasonable arguments, backed up with numbers. Call me strange, but I don't think, hissy fits, creaming 'I quit!', and being abusive or negative is going to work.
So I'll dare you, show me two reasonable fits (spare me the *******s please), one for the Myrmidon and one for the tier 2 BC of your choice. Then show me where the Myrmidon WTFPWNBBQs the other. I don't think you'll find one. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:23:00 -
[67]
Yeah the 25m3 added space tipped it onto the purchase list after kali.. Much needed boost.. I was testing it with all 250mm II and Garde and it was quite the sniping BC but was a just a tiny bit short on the DPS I need.. The extra Garde make it very usable now to me.. Thanks CCP! Now just give the ROF bonus or the 7th launcher back to the Drake and I'll be happy.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Blah blah Blah <Snip> From the above one can conclude only one thing: the Myrmidon's DPS in a non-suicidal fit will be average at best compared with the other BCs, both T1 and T2.
Ferox
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:09:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Vincent Almasy on 22/11/2006 02:09:53 [ERROR]
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:12:00 -
[70]
In truth I see it as the other players who denied that it needed the boost while they sat on their precious new toys with over powered stats that caused those ships to be nerfed. The reason the MYR got its boost is because its supposed to be a drone ship.
Look at its bonuses and that will tell you exactly what it is.
Besides its only 1 heavy drone ;) how much could that hurt :D
And everyone knows gallente are under powered as it is!! ;) lol My Character Stats |
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:27:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:25:32
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
1 more heavy drone is 25% more drone damage uhuh, yeah just one
actually? it only adds 20% more drone damage to the total.
Now if you took away one drone from 4 that would be 25% My Character Stats |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:29:00 -
[72]
I wanted a 7th low....
ah whatever
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:52:00 -
[73]
lol
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
veeery balanced... i wonder if for gallente doesn't work the principle "it melt you before you can say... look at that cool ship"...
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ath Amon lol
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
veeery balanced... i wonder if for gallente doesn't work the principle "it melt you before you can say... look at that cool ship"...
350 dps > than 463? ooookay Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Brazero
Amarr Noble House
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:55:00 -
[75]
I fail to see the problem here, Myrmidon needed something, everyone agreed on that, and now that the ship is boosted a bit ppl starts crying and jammering all over the place.
Just buy it and fly it, problem solved.
But I still want that last turret added on Harbinger, just to balance the looks
Quote: <tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
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Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:02:00 -
[76]
Meh thats why specialisation doesnt work in eve. You need two races minimum and the one best not be ammar and the one best be minmattar... Yeah Minnie and Caldari or minnie and gallente and you can withstand the nerf bat most of the time...
On topic: I certainly dont think its overpowered now but it is better than the Drake... or, correction, it wouldnt be better than the drake if EW was being nerfed. With the current slap on the wrist it might be marginally better than the current nerfed Drake.
Bear in mind that both missle and proj ships dont die easy to the classic nosf nerf set ups. I would expect it to kill a Brutix though...
Its problem is rather that if it goes through a long fight with another BC and is attacked by a long range inty on the way home it will (eventually) die horribly seeing as I cant see any of its drones surviving a long fight...
It will be a funny ship. People will pprobably have to fit half nos (and a neut) and half blasters. Engage target, attack it with everything, after 2-3 mins target is out of cap and your are out of drones. Now you can finish him off with your punny 2-3 blasters 4tw... in say... 5 more mins?
On the downside I d put my money on any passively tanked ship with projectiles or missles as primary weapons and room for a single small nos to kill the Myrmidon eventually...
If this drones were given the same hp buff as ships (and a bit more to account for extenders and passive tanks) then the Myrmi would probably rank as good as the pre nerf Drake and Hurricane and the current Harbringer...
Personally thats what I d like to see: Buff drone hp by 120%ish Unnerf fully Drake and Hurricane Buff Harbringer cap a bit
or
Leave drones as they are Unnerf Drake kin dmg > rof (still missle slot nerfed) leave Hurricane as is now. Leave Harbringer as is now
Both these sets are balanced regarding tier II bCs to each other. Second set is better balanced because it also takes into account tier 2 BCs v rest of eve balance issues.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Ath Amon lol
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
veeery balanced... i wonder if for gallente doesn't work the principle "it melt you before you can say... look at that cool ship"...
350 dps > than 463? ooookay
350?? with 5 ogre2 and ship bonus? i think you have to check again
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
350 dps > than 463? ooookay
read then understand then post
350 dps is from the drones alone, you still got 6 guns which havent been added to the dps yet, myrmidon with 5 heavies and blasters outdamages everything by a wide margin
i am not saying it doesnt deserve it with the drawback of no spares, but creating a gank monster with tank bonus after they nerfed the drake and hurr for the exact same reasons is just not understandable
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Butter Dog
IF you had a well developed PvP brain, which clearly you do not, you would realise that if you took a few SECONDS to pop the heavy drones (All 5 of them), the Mrym loses a massive amount of DPS.
You are obviously 100% clueless. Have you ever tried to pop a high skilled Domi pilot's Ogre II's? They have more than 4000 hp each, so 5 of them have more than 20.000 hp. But Mr. Clueless Butter Dog wants to pop them "in a few seconds" (while the owner will be trying to restore them to full shields by recalling and re-deploying), good luck.
But I assume that you're only trolling.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:23:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 03:23:21
Originally by: Ath Amon
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... [the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
maybe you should actually read posts. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
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Asariasha
Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:26:00 -
[81]
Yeah, thats the kind of balance we all waited for. An all over DPS of ~350 just by drones additional to the option to fit blasters for more pwnage or just NOS for breaking other ships defense and still some of you Gallentean "Im with stupid"s want even more drone space.
Let me guess, if I now ask for RoF bonus for Drake you guys begin to whine again that it would be just to overpowered, right?
I really wonder what the CCP DEVteam will do next? Maybe replace Drakes launcher harpoints for turrets and add a mining bonus?
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane stuff
If 25m3 is nothing can the other BC's have that as well? It would double the Hurricanes drone bay. 70 DPS is not something you throw around like its nothing.
Your just looking at DPS and the drones, your ignoring its tanking bonus, the fact it can tackle and use some EW while doing all that damage.
Look at Cyclone which has damage bonus and tanking bonus, it is so restricted compared to the Myr its rediculus. Only by using all 8 highs will make its damage in the area of a Myr thats using medium drones. They have the same number of mids, yet one is meant to be shield tanking! Yes one is a tier 2 ship but that shouldn't mean instant win over tier 1's. I bet a Proph has even less chance.
Don't just focus on the new ships, the old ones are meant to still have roles to. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:28:00 -
[83]
is implicit that i'm calculating ship bonuses... i'm not calculating damage mods (as i said) if you want i change the post to avoid misunderstandings but that doesn't change the numbers
so if you prefer
old hurricane 7 220mm (barrage) + ham (rage) + hammerhead II + ship bonuses (no dmg mods) < myrm 5 ogre2 + ship bonuses (no dmg mods, no guns)
better?
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 03:23:21
Originally by: Ath Amon
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... [the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
maybe you should actually read posts.
well pwned myself, the rest still holds up tough
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:44:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 03:45:07 ... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Nebuli
Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:46:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Nebuli on 22/11/2006 03:47:45 Cant realy see the problem here, personaly think it needs even more drone bay for spares.
Everyones going on about this ship like it can fit 5 ogre II, HUGE monbster tank AND medium blasters or something.
It CANT, it can fit a tank OR medium blasters, it cant do both, either way just kill its drones and its crippled.
I'm Gal specced primarily, guess what ships out of the new batch I'll be flying?
BS - Caldari BC - Minmatar
Might play around with the Myr, but think its far better suited to PVE than PVP.
2003 player, highly skilled in drones and hybrids, gal BS 5, Caldari BS 4, I will train Caldari BS 5 and train projectiles up and other relevent skills to fly the new Min BC over Myr.
CEO - Art of War
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:05:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:08:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar But it is prolly my fault, CCP seems to be on a rampage to nerf everything I like about EVE. I apologize to everyone affected about loving Minmatar ships.
Fly Gallente please.
Also, the Drake, had Tux just removed the **** resists bonus, would have been fine.
People ***** and moan about god-like setups that they can't beat, yet they refuse to acknowledge the fact that you will NEVER FIGHT SUCH A SETUP IN PVP. Unless you're some honor-bound guy who refuses to warp away, you're never going to lose to those 'overpowered' Drakes. Setup a real pvp Drake, and you'll suddenly find that uber ship isn't very uber, and turn those resists into missile velocity, or whatever, and you'll find that while dealing heayv DPS up cloe, the Drake goes down like lead in water.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:10:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 04:14:03
Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
***pattern clarc saves up for myrmidon bpo***
I'm not even gunna pretend like its not awesome.
But the best tank has to go to the drake..
10k shields at 70-80% resists WTF? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:12:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Protunia
Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:25:32
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
1 more heavy drone is 25% more drone damage uhuh, yeah just one
actually? it only adds 20% more drone damage to the total.
Now if you took away one drone from 4 that would be 25%
You have it backwards.
If you have 4 drons, doing 100DPS, thats 400dps.
You get a 5th drone, now you do 500 DPS.
You've just gained 25% more damage. 400x*1.25=500
Now, if you do 500DPS, and suddenly drop to 400DPS, you've just lost 20% DPS. 500*0.8=400
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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