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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 20:55:00 -
[1]
The dronebay increase to 125 cubic meters should be interesting. I'll make sure to test it lots. Thanks!
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Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:01:00 -
[2]
YAAAAY!!!! This ship is finally useful.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne The dronebay increase to 125 cubic meters should be interesting. I'll make sure to test it lots. Thanks!
That is interesting. I see a heavy / medium blend (with spare mediums) on the horizon- enough DPS to compete in PvP, but with spares to keep it in the fight (albeit at reduced efficiency) for a while longer.
Will be interesting to hear how testing works out. -----------------------------------------------
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
5 heavy drones +37.5% Repair bonus +50% drone hitpoint bonus +50% drone damage bonus 5 medium slots
Yeah ok. Sigh.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:12:00 -
[5]
Great. 5 heavies kill everything bigger than a destroyer, including cruisers (stupid awesome tracking...), and everyone knows it. For comparison, the balance before was:
Drake >>> Hurricane >>> Harbinger > Myrmidon
Now it's:
Myrmidon >>> Harbinger > Hurricane > Your elderly mother > Drake
Hmm, this looks familiar. Caldari have the worst BC? Gallente have the best? My, my, very familiar indeed... ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Asariasha
Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:22:00 -
[6]
Well once more gallentean idiots made it. At first they cry and whine until other ships get pwned by a nerfbat followed by immediate additional whine that their ships are the worst.
And what comes out!? Exactly what was pointed by Nicocat. Gallente BC will own all other. It's really sad to see that CCP is so easy to be influenced by forum trolling and whining
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:23:00 -
[7]
Please bear in mind how ludicrous the idea of flying Heavies alone on this ship would be- they'd have popped before your enemy was even out of shields. Anyone who new about the game would know that 5 heavies on the Myr = no spares, and that amounts to instant death.
4 heavies and no spares was a ludicrous propostition, and 5 mediums is just a glorified Vexor. This way people can either max out their DPS, or choose a lower DPS set-up that actually works.
I think it could probably do with losing a turret, though. -----------------------------------------------
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Jaxtet
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:23:00 -
[8]
Yay! |
Evelgrivion
Cohort.
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:26:00 -
[9]
Well now that the Gallente have a gank-mobile, can the Caldari please have the ROF bonus to at least hope to compete?
»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/»\_/
Its Cohort. with a C. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Asariasha Edited by: Asariasha on 21/11/2006 21:23:14 Well once more gallentean idiots made it. At first they cry and whine until other ships get pwned by a nerfbat followed by immediate additional whine that their ships are the worst.
And what comes out!? Exactly what was pointed by Nicocat. Gallente BC will own all other. It's really sad to see that CCP is so easy to be influenced by forum trolling and whining and seems not to be able to balance the BCs in the way experienced players of different races supposed
Galls havn't wined much at all. However the ombined 30 pages or so of Drake whining, plus the (much smaller) Hurricane whining has been monumental. With everything to from flame-baiting Devs to the more traditional "I quits".......
Myrmidon out-right sucked the way it was first on Sisi. It had the lowest DPS, no room for spare drones, and barely any turrets. It was then buffed with extra turrets- it brought it on par with the rest of the BCs (kinda- its debateable) but was in the complete wrong direction- why boost a Drone ship by giving it more turrets? Now its got the Drone boost it needed in the first place, but it could probably do with losing that turret boost. Its true that with 5 heavies and all neutron blasters it'll out damage other BCs- but that'd be a suicidal setup. On a realistic setup (either 5 mediums, or a medium / heavy mix) its DPS really isn't anything special.
Not having spare Drones is a bit like flying with only the ammo thats in your guns, and nothing in your cargo- sure you'll kick ass, but only for the first 25 seconds........... -----------------------------------------------
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Well now that the Gallente have a gank-mobile, can the Caldari please have the ROF bonus to at least hope to compete?
I'm betting the drake will still compete favorably with the myrmidon.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:33:00 -
[12]
Can you give the Hurricane back its 7 turrets please? This is getting ridiculous. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:34:00 -
[13]
No need to touch anything, that ship is perfectly fine now. Want to use heavies for DPS? You can, but with no replacement waves. Seems a nice tradeoff for me. Let the 6 turrets, it allows versatility (sorry, but not everyone want to use the cookie NOS in highs).
But I still regret that other BCs were nerfed so hard in the way As expected, everyone will cry, scream while pointing Gallente as being "overpowered" again. Fail to see in what this ship is overpowered. It doesnŠt have a large drone bay and doesnŠt do uber damage, even with 5 heavy drones. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:37:26
Originally by: Kalhystia Fail to see in what this ship is overpowered. It doesnŠt have a large drone bay and doesnŠt do uber damage, even with 5 heavy drones.
So why was the Hurricane overpowered with 7 turrets and 30 m3 drone bay, no repair bonus, no defensive bonuses of any kind?
Ah feck it, ccp do as they please anyway. Its pointless to argue.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
Oooh buhuuu my shiny toy got taken away and now all I can do is ***** at Tux and troll threads how Caldari are soooo sucky now. Can you ONLY whine and defend/ask for boost on Caldari ships?
That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
FYI, I'm eqaully skilled in Gallente and Caldari so spare me the biased argument.
Originally by: "Cy4n1d3"
You can't PVP with 4 mids.
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:38:00 -
[16]
Here's what we do.
1) Hurricane gets its turret. 2) Drake gets its launcher (but NOT the ROF bonus. Those together were ridiculous) 2a) Or it gets the ROF bonus back and only 6 turrets, but they'd better nerf those ****ed Jav HAMs 3) Myrmidon can keep its ******* 5 heavies 4) The Harbinger is actually ok. 5) Nerf the TANKING ability of these ships.
There. We all win. ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Originally by: Jim McGregor That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
It's already got 2 fewer high slots for weapons than the other BCs do.
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Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:40:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kalhystia on 21/11/2006 21:40:43
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
Oooh buhuuu my shiny toy got taken away and now all I can do is ***** at Tux and troll threads how Caldari are soooo sucky now. Can you ONLY whine and defend/ask for boost on Caldari ships?
That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
FYI, I'm eqaully skilled in Gallente and Caldari so spare me the biased argument.
If that is truly needed to make the whinage stop, yes take a turret from it, even if I donŠt see why: I would like to point out that this ship only has 17 slots when all the other tier 2 BC already have 18 slots. |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
Oooh buhuuu my shiny toy got taken away and now all I can do is ***** at Tux and troll threads how Caldari are soooo sucky now. Can you ONLY whine and defend/ask for boost on Caldari ships?
That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
FYI, I'm eqaully skilled in Gallente and Caldari so spare me the biased argument.
Jim and I are Caldari traitors and fly Minmatar. Please remove your head from your ass before speaking. ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Patch86 on 21/11/2006 21:46:05 double post -----------------------------------------------
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 21/11/2006 21:45:22
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
It's already got 2 fewer high slots for weapons than the other BCs do.
Can't all the new BCs use at least 6 of their primary weapons (Harbinger having 7)? Or do I need to log onto the test server more often? ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
It's already got 2 fewer high slots for weapons than the other BCs do.
Yah, but its a drone boat
The beauty of drone boats is that it doesn't need a full spread of wtfpwn turrets. I've not crunched the numbers so don't know what its DPS is atm, but if it is overpowered (and its distictly poossible that it could be) then the turrets should get the nerf, not the drones. -----------------------------------------------
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Patch86
Yah, but its a drone boat
The beauty of drone boats is that it doesn't need a full spread of wtfpwn turrets. I've not crunched the numbers so don't know what its DPS is atm, but if it is overpowered (and its distictly poossible that it could be) then the turrets should get the nerf, not the drones.
Perhaps you missed my point. Name another droneboat that has 3 fewer highslots than anything else in its class. 2 is the max to date (Dominix).
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Kalhystia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
It's already got 2 fewer high slots for weapons than the other BCs do.
Yah, but its a drone boat
The beauty of drone boats is that it doesn't need a full spread of wtfpwn turrets. I've not crunched the numbers so don't know what its DPS is atm, but if it is overpowered (and its distictly poossible that it could be) then the turrets should get the nerf, not the drones.
Like.. Dominix? 6 highs, 6 turrets. I fail to see your point here Not saying that Domi is underpowered, but 6 turrets Domi isnŠt the imbalanced thing: NOS-ECM domi is the imbalance. So keep Myrmidon turrets. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 21:50:00 -
[25]
Could be, could be. I'm not really in a postition to be talking about overall balance, so I'm not gonna try and argue it.
I'm sure someoen will crunch the numbers soon enough, though. -----------------------------------------------
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
5 heavy drones +37.5% Repair bonus +50% drone hitpoint bonus +50% drone damage bonus 5 medium slots
Yeah ok. Sigh.
Yeah right, and the fact each ****ed Ogre II costs over 2 mil a pop doesnt balance things out?!
You can kill them relatively easily, while the other races dont loose their weapons, or forced to leave their missile launchers behind, when have to warp out! ------------------ Its great not being an Amarr, aint it? Save Tranquility! |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Audrea
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
5 heavy drones +37.5% Repair bonus +50% drone hitpoint bonus +50% drone damage bonus 5 medium slots
Yeah ok. Sigh.
Yeah right, and the fact each ****ed Ogre II costs over 2 mil a pop doesnt balance things out?!
You can kill them relatively easily, while the other races dont loose their weapons, or forced to leave their missile launchers behind, when have to warp out!
Good 'scout' Autos cost around 3m in Caldari space (I'll be ****ed if I'm going all the way to Minny space to save 5 mil). And if you take a look at my snazzy new heirarchy, you won't NEED to warp out. Myrm > all others now, unless you're ganked by Bships and tacklers... you won't be going anywhere then, anyway. ----------------------------
Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected])
I tried? |
Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
5 heavy drones +37.5% Repair bonus +50% drone hitpoint bonus +50% drone damage bonus 5 medium slots
Yeah ok. Sigh.
I could not agree more. The myrmidon already did waaaay more damage than any of the other races, but sure boost it even more, seems like CCP just want to keep gallente as the king of pvp in this game. Well I better start training for yet another win-button ship from gallente
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Isyel
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:15:00 -
[29]
Anyone dares to whine about not being able to have spare drones on top of this should get a special tar and feather treatment along with a multiple... meh,let's leave this one.
So can we get our 7 turret back? Obviously melting other ships is allowed now. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I be needin' some sig love. *sigh* |
Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Audrea Yeah right, and the fact each ****ed Ogre II costs over 2 mil a pop doesnt balance things out?!
You can kill them relatively easily, while the other races dont loose their weapons, or forced to leave their missile launchers behind, when have to warp out!
Market issues has nothing to do with ship balance.
Fact is, even with medium drones and electron turrets this ship out damages Hurricane (okay only till 5km with t1 ammo).
Fact is this will be the best gang BC where people won't have time to go for your drones due to damage they're taking and/or the EW being used on them.
One ship has two damage bonuses, the other has 1 damage bonus and tanking bonus...
Thats the problem. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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ragewind
Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:17:00 -
[31]
the Devs are using sledge hammers to balance the game again FFS likey make this the solow ship of all BS shall we christ the sings this pathc is going though has more drama then the bob/ascn threads.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
5 heavy drones +37.5% Repair bonus +50% drone hitpoint bonus +50% drone damage bonus 5 medium slots
Yeah ok. Sigh.
I could not agree more. The myrmidon already did waaaay more damage than any of the other races, but sure boost it even more, seems like CCP just want to keep gallente as the king of pvp in this game. Well I better start training for yet another win-button ship from gallente
Let's see... the myrmidon's downsides:
1) Its primary weapons can be destroyed and it has no spares unless you settle for lower DPS 2) It has no gun bonuses 3) It only has 6 highslots 4) The guns it does fit cost cap and have almost no range (if you use blasters) 5) Has to worry about tracking 6) Can't hit frigs if you go with 5 heavy drones
Yep, pretty much looks like it SHOULD have the highest DPS.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente C R Y O
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:25:00 -
[33]
I think this was a necessary change, regardless of whehter i use Gallente ships or not. Im glad to see it...
Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live... |
Rawthorm
Gallente The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:57:00 -
[34]
Has anyone actualy weighted this up against an ishtar? Spare drone issue aside it seems we have a super ishtar at 15% of the cost
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:00:00 -
[35]
I fully expect tux to return our 7th launcher and ROF bonus.
And no, I don't care if you nerf the Ferox into the stoneage, be my guest.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rawthorm Has anyone actualy weighted this up against an ishtar? Spare drone issue aside it seems we have a super ishtar at 15% of the cost
My ishtar wipes the floor with a myrmidon, simply because the ishtar can carry so many spare drones and the myrmidon can't. Plus, the Ishtar has a very effective anti-blaster tank built-in.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:02:00 -
[37]
TBH if they hadn't nerfed the Hurricane before this, I would applaud this change. Now I only feel resentment though. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rawthorm Has anyone actualy weighted this up against an ishtar? Spare drone issue aside it seems we have a super ishtar at 15% of the cost
That is, rather, the point. BCs are meant to be better than HACs- Brutix can kill an Ishtar, witha good wind behind it. Ever checked the base price of a HAC? Its 20 million- considerably cheaper than the Myrmidon.
It is in fact the whole point that before now it was far inferior to an Ishtar. -----------------------------------------------
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Ergo Morte
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:04:00 -
[39]
Oh good, Tux found 25m3 of the drone bay the Myr had for it's preliminary stats. 125m3 to go.
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Judar
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:05:00 -
[40]
QUIT THE *****ING
Maby he will restore the drake back to its former glory now
Judor
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Arushia
Nova Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ragewind the Devs are using sledge hammers to balance the game again FFS
That's the point of a test-server. You can make big changes and observe their impact and public reaction to them without having people lose "real" assets on the live server. You couldn't tell from the 50% HP increase that big changes were being tested?
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Judar QUIT THE *****ING
Maby he will restore the drake back to its former glory now
Judor
Why would he do that? You don't buff the strong ships just because the weak ones got bufed.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
Oooh buhuuu my shiny toy got taken away and now all I can do is ***** at Tux and troll threads how Caldari are soooo sucky now. Can you ONLY whine and defend/ask for boost on Caldari ships?
That said, I wouldnt mind it losing a turret; it's a droneboat after all. Unlike the Caldari fanbois, mind you.
FYI, I'm eqaully skilled in Gallente and Caldari so spare me the biased argument.
SPs don't suddenly make you fair and balanced.
If they want the myrmidon to be a droneboat, which can now do BS-level drone damage (its primary weapon), then lets drop the turrets to 3, maybe 4. Not that it matters, because everyones going to use the ship as a NOSboat regardless. I know I would.
If it's going to be a droneboat, then cripple the turrets and possibly highslots in general, and give it 150 or 175m3, then it can carry a couple spare drones (granted, some people will still ***** that its not enough), and relies on using drones, just as a Raven relies on using missiles, or a geddon with lasers.
They nerfed the Drake, a GANK BATTLECRUISER, but removing the GANK, despite the fact the tank is what was making it pwn so **** hard. Now we're left with another mission ship, and most of us would prefer the better damage and ****ty tank, not ****ty damage and better tank. Atleast the NH is getting its ROF bonus though, so people only have to spend an extra month or 2 in order to get a solid missile BC.
Tux really needs to rethink these BCs, there's nothing gank about the drake, or a couple others for that matter. Caldari don't want or need another ship that can just sit there and tank while its enemy tanks them until backup arrives to wipe them out with real firepower.
If the Ferox wasn't a complete and utter joke, then there'd be some grounds to argue against the Drake being un-suckified, but the Ferox is a massive joke, and if it wasn't a decent passive tanking mission ship, you'd see them about as often as a moa, NEVER.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia If it's going to be a droneboat, then cripple the turrets and possibly highslots in general, and give it 150 or 175m3, then it can carry a couple spare drones (granted, some people will still ***** that its not enough), and relies on using drones, just as a Raven relies on using missiles, or a geddon with lasers.
You be sure to let me know when I can shoot the launchers or turrets off your ship, ok? Cause until that day, it's not even similar.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Audrea
Yeah right, and the fact each ****ed Ogre II costs over 2 mil a pop doesnt balance things out?!
Cerbs cost 300mil, I demand they do 50% more DPS to compensate for their cost.
Seriously, don't ever try to use T2 costs for your argument, it's quite possibly the worst thing you can do for your side of a debate. Use ogre I's, you'll find they're far cheaper.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Zeknichov
Amarr Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia If it's going to be a droneboat, then cripple the turrets and possibly highslots in general, and give it 150 or 175m3, then it can carry a couple spare drones (granted, some people will still ***** that its not enough), and relies on using drones, just as a Raven relies on using missiles, or a geddon with lasers.
You be sure to let me know when I can shoot the launchers or turrets off your ship, ok? Cause until that day, it's not even similar.
It's coming the same day that the nosdomi stops being such a bat**** insane i-win button.
Well, I should say the Nosdomi and Nosmidon now.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Atar
Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:19:00 -
[48]
Yup my sig says it all, give us back the 7th turret and leave the PG nerfed.
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Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nicocat
Good 'scout' Autos cost around 3m in Caldari space (I'll be ****ed if I'm going all the way to Minny space to save 5 mil). And if you take a look at my snazzy new heirarchy, you won't NEED to warp out. Myrm > all others now, unless you're ganked by Bships and tacklers... you won't be going anywhere then, anyway.
Let's talk again when I will be able to shoot your autos off your ship in battle. Right now I can do squat about them. Even by nossing you. My slow Ogres (which also have cruiser-size sig radius) can be killed very easily. Given that the Myr does not get any spares (like the Domi)... Need I say more? I think you have never flown a drone ship if you make arguments like that.
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/11/2006 21:10:44 Give the ship 8 turrets with double damage bonuses while you are at it. Why not make it obvious there is no reason to pick another race in this game. There are still some people who doesnt pick gallente you know...
5 heavy drones +37.5% Repair bonus +50% drone hitpoint bonus +50% drone damage bonus 5 medium slots
Yeah ok. Sigh.
Get real.
If anyone is stupid enough to use 5 heavy drones on this thing, you can spend 10 seconds popping them. Goodbye 350 DPS.
Its a medium drone boat, really.
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:25:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:25:32
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
1 more heavy drone is 25% more drone damage uhuh, yeah just one
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 21/11/2006 23:27:11
Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:25:32
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
1 more heavy drone is 25% more drone damage uhuh, yeah just one
IF you had a well developed PvP brain, which clearly you do not, you would realise that if you took a few SECONDS to pop the heavy drones (All 5 of them), the Mrym loses a massive amount of DPS.
It also has no replacements.
Only a fool would use this with exclusively heavy drones, and no replacements in the hold.
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Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:28:00 -
[53]
WTF... All the whiners in this thread are Caldari Just noticed Guess what. With your missile standoff ships you can kill off drones. Easily. Even with FoF missiles. Especially the slow, big heavy drones. Myrmidon is slow, and if you engage it from 40 km, guess who will win. Yes, the Ferox. Every time, all the time. It all comes down to strategy. Why do you whine again? Now, with Myr having the initial 100m3 drone bay... A Myrmidon pilot will have no chance against any of the other Tier 2 BCs. It has been tested on Serenity multiple times, and My was defeated most of the time. Read some of the older Myrmidon threads, then whine. Sheesh.
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:30:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Only a fool would use this with exclusively heavy drones, and no replacements in the hold.
Precisely. 5 heavy drones will be a good strategy against rats, but never in PvP. Also note that Myrmidon is extremely slow...
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:32:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:32:32
Originally by: Butter Dog
IF you had a well developed PvP brain, which clearly you do not, you would realise that if you took a few SECONDS to pop the heavy drones (All 5 of them), the Mrym loses a massive amount of DPS.
It also has no replacements.
Only a fool would use this with exclusively heavy drones, and no replacements in the hold.
he wanted math i gave him math and if you think for a second that people wont use 5 large drones on this ship than you are an utter fool with no pvp brains
with the right setup and some brains you can protect your drones well enough in 1v1, in larger groups people dont tend to target drones anyways
also failing to pop the drones of a myrm will result in a sure death for nearly anyone and you want more dronebay for backups, hilarity
(the only real disadvantage is that it cant fit 5 lights atm for protection against smaller targets and god i hiope it stays that way )
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Only a fool would use this with exclusively heavy drones, and no replacements in the hold.
Aggreed. At this early stage, I'd guess my choice would be 2 heavies +3 mediums, +4 spare mediums. That gives me long-term cruiser DPS, with an initial short burst of BC sized damage. I mean, we're talking only about 350 DPS from those drones at their peak (I think); hardly uber, is it? How much DPS does the (new) Drake do these days, at optimal range? -----------------------------------------------
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:33:00 -
[57]
I was hoping for more than 125... but I guess it works out. Myr pilots can go for full damage (5 heavies) at the risk of losing DPS when they go pop.
I don't think you'll see too many Mry pilots with 5x heavies though. Anyone else who sees 5 heavies pop out of a mry will know what to do next: shoot the drones and watch the myr die a slow death.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:34:00 -
[58]
Well the change sure is unexpected and it was honestly needed.
The nerfs to the other BC were here before the myrmi got changed.. and after the changes I thought it would be a cold day in hell before any of the ships would get better. And now the myrmi has 125 m^3 drone space..
I laugh at those people saying the myrmidon is better than all the other tier 2 BC. You have obviously never fitted one. Any blaster setup requires a MWD (and probably a cap booster, you know usual setup)(ow and I'd use an AC setup since without a hyrbid bonus the no cap is better). Good luck fitting any form of tank that way; tanking bonus down the drain. You want an uber tank that leaves you enough fitting for a drone setup, screw the guns. So 6 small arty (honestly, why the frell use rails over a no cap weapon on this ship) and 5 heavy drones.
Any armed drake can take that ship out easily unless jammed.. just a matter of hitting the heavy drones and pounding through the formidable tank.
As for dps, I recon it is highest now with the changes to the other tier 2 BC.. kill two drones and it's lowest again.. and no spares if you bring heavies.. seems fair enough.. (especially when you figure you need BC lvl 5 to get the same 50% hp increase for your drones all the ships have had, and drones haven't..)
The Drake deserved a nerf, mind you not the whack in the face it just had, but a nerf nonetheless. Fights on sisi were silly. The others.. no clue what they were thinking, prolly something along the line of .. hmm cheap hac..
About the slots and high slots of the myrmi.. atm the myrmi still has one less slot than the other tier 2 BC. You can't just give a ship in the same class less slots than others in teh same class.. but you can't really try and give it 18 slots with as lil high slots as possible. I mean noone wants a ship with just 2 highs and 8 meds and lows.. so where do you go... more low slots means uber tank... more meds means uber tackle.. so you need to keep highs.. and really the model has 6 turret slots. Either give it 4 turrets and don't use the first and last, or something like that, but 5 turrets looked ugly.
I say unnerf the hurricane, give the drake the launcher slot back, but keep the boni as they are now, (and please change the ferox to a proper rail boat with 7/3 turret/launcher) and obviously boost amarr :)
PS: 125m^3 is still too small, and please change the bonus to scout drones only so the frelling whiners will move on, with the myrmi's down on dps again.
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
It is not so much that it is overpowered, but it is that Gallenteans whine about their Myrmidon being too weak and the other BCs too strong. That resulting first in getting the Myrm a boost (-2 high +1 low is a boost for that kind of ship imho), then the Drake (which needed a nerf but not the pounding it got) and Hurricane (which was quite fine thank you) nerfed, and now ANOTHER boost for the Myrmidon.
And now you want people who looked very forward to a great Hurricane and/or Drake to be happy campers because Gallente whining is the i-win button on the forums lately? The only thing this kind of treatment by CCP will generate is more hatred towards those they clearly favor. Caldari at least got the Rokh to look forward to, but us Minnies?
But it is prolly my fault, CCP seems to be on a rampage to nerf everything I like about EVE. I apologize to everyone affected about loving Minmatar ships. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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CHAOS100
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:40:00 -
[60]
Thanks CCP ! But I think you should re-buff the other bc's to even the whining.
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Areconus
Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.11.21 23:58:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Areconus on 21/11/2006 23:57:54
Originally by: Leandro Salazar TBH if they hadn't nerfed the Hurricane before this, I would applaud this change. Now I only feel resentment though.
Totally f***king agreed
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
Albrecht Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:03:00 -
[62]
So when everyone whines about the same we have finally reached balance? God there has to be a better way... ------------------------------------- Join "TKI-net"/"Directivenet" for more information |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
It is not so much that it is overpowered, but it is that Gallenteans whine about their Myrmidon being too weak and the other BCs too strong. That resulting first in getting the Myrm a boost (-2 high +1 low is a boost for that kind of ship imho), then the Drake (which needed a nerf but not the pounding it got) and Hurricane (which was quite fine thank you) nerfed, and now ANOTHER boost for the Myrmidon.
And now you want people who looked very forward to a great Hurricane and/or Drake to be happy campers because Gallente whining is the i-win button on the forums lately? The only thing this kind of treatment by CCP will generate is more hatred towards those they clearly favor. Caldari at least got the Rokh to look forward to, but us Minnies?
But it is prolly my fault, CCP seems to be on a rampage to nerf everything I like about EVE. I apologize to everyone affected about loving Minmatar ships.
I just don't see it. I'm flying a Hurricane right now (I can fly all four races on test) with T1 guns and T2 everything else. The Hurricane rocks. I'm using an MWD/AC setup and man, that CAP BUFF!!! OMG!! The Hurricane has a HUGE cap compared to it's requirements for tanking/shooting! I can tanke for DAYS! It's so much better than a ship that needs cap for it's guns. I almost fall asleep managing a fight because I'm not constantly fretting over cap.
With some T2 guns (which I'm training) this thing will shred.
Because I said so...
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:23:00 -
[64]
I didn't say the Hurricane sucks, but compared to the great (but not overpowered) ship it was with 7 turrets it now is just decent. And I am considering it for use with Arties, not ACs. With ACs you can replace the lost turret with a Nos or Neut and not lose much efficiency I guess. With arties, losing 7th turret hurts more. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Irimi Nage
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 00:40:00 -
[65]
I am very tempted to see what happens with a myrm fitted like I fit my ishtar.
ACs/arties and nos in highs, EW in meds, 1600 and lots of passive hardeners in lows.
While BCs have more cap than HACs so it might be worth running a more active setup, the ability to survive being nos'd to **** may be worth testing.
For those complaining about the extra drone bay, it was needed, really, it was. Myrm won't be the best BC, it will be a useful BC now. ---
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:18:00 -
[66]
The drone bay increase is a welcome change for a Myrmidon that was gimped from the beginning.
For those claiming the Myrmidon is now overpowered against the other BCs, I can say that this is not true. I've done the math in the BC thread (around page 25 I believe) and the damage increase for a player with maxed drone skills against average resist using 5 Ogre IIs (which do max DPS of all drones) instead of the previous 4 is 68.91 DPS, that is, 5 Ogre IIs will now do 344.53 DPS against the 275.62 DPS of 4 Ogre IIs.
That's it! A measly increase of less than 70 DPS at (un)godly skills. The total drone DPS under these conditions will be less than 350 DPS. If one compares this with T2 launchers, one can not but abmit: its pathetic.
The only way, the Myrmidon can increase its DPS is by fitting guns. For this, it has no bonus. Repeat: no bonus.
The highest DPS the Myrmidon can add is by using blasters. There are a number of problems with trying to make a blaster/drone boat out of the Myrmidon: 1. Blasters have high fitting needs while the Myrmidon has low fitting capabilities 2. Blasters are close range weapons while the Myrmidon has low velocity, has low agility, and a huge sig radius
Let's face it, fitting the Myrmidon as a blaster boat is PvP suicide. It is simply not viable (I'm not even going into the nerfed T2 ammo).
Add to this the following remarks: 1. Drones are still broken (see the drone whinage thread) 2. Drones will become more vulnerable with the HP increase 3. The Myrmidon has one less slot to fit than the other BCs 4. When using 5 heavies, the Myrmidon has no backups (and a drone boat without drones is a dead drone boat)
From the above one can conclude only one thing: the Myrmidon's DPS in a non-suicidal fit will be average at best compared with the other BCs, both T1 and T2. To be entirely honest, I still think that the Myrmidon will lack staying power in a fight, and I do mean PvP. But then again, I do not know exactly because I can't seem to log onto Sisi right now to test it (hangs in station?).
I'm sorry your Drake got nerfed. Maybe it got nerfed too much. I honestly can't tell. I can tell you what I think helped convince the devs to ungimp the Myrmidon though: reasonable arguments, backed up with numbers. Call me strange, but I don't think, hissy fits, creaming 'I quit!', and being abusive or negative is going to work.
So I'll dare you, show me two reasonable fits (spare me the *******s please), one for the Myrmidon and one for the tier 2 BC of your choice. Then show me where the Myrmidon WTFPWNBBQs the other. I don't think you'll find one. -- Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:23:00 -
[67]
Yeah the 25m3 added space tipped it onto the purchase list after kali.. Much needed boost.. I was testing it with all 250mm II and Garde and it was quite the sniping BC but was a just a tiny bit short on the DPS I need.. The extra Garde make it very usable now to me.. Thanks CCP! Now just give the ROF bonus or the 7th launcher back to the Drake and I'll be happy.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.11.22 01:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Blah blah Blah <Snip> From the above one can conclude only one thing: the Myrmidon's DPS in a non-suicidal fit will be average at best compared with the other BCs, both T1 and T2.
Ferox
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:09:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Vincent Almasy on 22/11/2006 02:09:53 [ERROR]
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:12:00 -
[70]
In truth I see it as the other players who denied that it needed the boost while they sat on their precious new toys with over powered stats that caused those ships to be nerfed. The reason the MYR got its boost is because its supposed to be a drone ship.
Look at its bonuses and that will tell you exactly what it is.
Besides its only 1 heavy drone ;) how much could that hurt :D
And everyone knows gallente are under powered as it is!! ;) lol My Character Stats |
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:27:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:25:32
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
1 more heavy drone is 25% more drone damage uhuh, yeah just one
actually? it only adds 20% more drone damage to the total.
Now if you took away one drone from 4 that would be 25% My Character Stats |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:29:00 -
[72]
I wanted a 7th low....
ah whatever
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:52:00 -
[73]
lol
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
veeery balanced... i wonder if for gallente doesn't work the principle "it melt you before you can say... look at that cool ship"...
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ath Amon lol
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
veeery balanced... i wonder if for gallente doesn't work the principle "it melt you before you can say... look at that cool ship"...
350 dps > than 463? ooookay Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Brazero
Amarr Noble House
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Posted - 2006.11.22 02:55:00 -
[75]
I fail to see the problem here, Myrmidon needed something, everyone agreed on that, and now that the ship is boosted a bit ppl starts crying and jammering all over the place.
Just buy it and fly it, problem solved.
But I still want that last turret added on Harbinger, just to balance the looks
Quote: <tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
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Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:02:00 -
[76]
Meh thats why specialisation doesnt work in eve. You need two races minimum and the one best not be ammar and the one best be minmattar... Yeah Minnie and Caldari or minnie and gallente and you can withstand the nerf bat most of the time...
On topic: I certainly dont think its overpowered now but it is better than the Drake... or, correction, it wouldnt be better than the drake if EW was being nerfed. With the current slap on the wrist it might be marginally better than the current nerfed Drake.
Bear in mind that both missle and proj ships dont die easy to the classic nosf nerf set ups. I would expect it to kill a Brutix though...
Its problem is rather that if it goes through a long fight with another BC and is attacked by a long range inty on the way home it will (eventually) die horribly seeing as I cant see any of its drones surviving a long fight...
It will be a funny ship. People will pprobably have to fit half nos (and a neut) and half blasters. Engage target, attack it with everything, after 2-3 mins target is out of cap and your are out of drones. Now you can finish him off with your punny 2-3 blasters 4tw... in say... 5 more mins?
On the downside I d put my money on any passively tanked ship with projectiles or missles as primary weapons and room for a single small nos to kill the Myrmidon eventually...
If this drones were given the same hp buff as ships (and a bit more to account for extenders and passive tanks) then the Myrmi would probably rank as good as the pre nerf Drake and Hurricane and the current Harbringer...
Personally thats what I d like to see: Buff drone hp by 120%ish Unnerf fully Drake and Hurricane Buff Harbringer cap a bit
or
Leave drones as they are Unnerf Drake kin dmg > rof (still missle slot nerfed) leave Hurricane as is now. Leave Harbringer as is now
Both these sets are balanced regarding tier II bCs to each other. Second set is better balanced because it also takes into account tier 2 BCs v rest of eve balance issues.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Ath Amon lol
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
veeery balanced... i wonder if for gallente doesn't work the principle "it melt you before you can say... look at that cool ship"...
350 dps > than 463? ooookay
350?? with 5 ogre2 and ship bonus? i think you have to check again
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
350 dps > than 463? ooookay
read then understand then post
350 dps is from the drones alone, you still got 6 guns which havent been added to the dps yet, myrmidon with 5 heavies and blasters outdamages everything by a wide margin
i am not saying it doesnt deserve it with the drawback of no spares, but creating a gank monster with tank bonus after they nerfed the drake and hurr for the exact same reasons is just not understandable
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Butter Dog
IF you had a well developed PvP brain, which clearly you do not, you would realise that if you took a few SECONDS to pop the heavy drones (All 5 of them), the Mrym loses a massive amount of DPS.
You are obviously 100% clueless. Have you ever tried to pop a high skilled Domi pilot's Ogre II's? They have more than 4000 hp each, so 5 of them have more than 20.000 hp. But Mr. Clueless Butter Dog wants to pop them "in a few seconds" (while the owner will be trying to restore them to full shields by recalling and re-deploying), good luck.
But I assume that you're only trolling.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:23:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 03:23:21
Originally by: Ath Amon
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... [the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
maybe you should actually read posts. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
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Asariasha
Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:26:00 -
[81]
Yeah, thats the kind of balance we all waited for. An all over DPS of ~350 just by drones additional to the option to fit blasters for more pwnage or just NOS for breaking other ships defense and still some of you Gallentean "Im with stupid"s want even more drone space.
Let me guess, if I now ask for RoF bonus for Drake you guys begin to whine again that it would be just to overpowered, right?
I really wonder what the CCP DEVteam will do next? Maybe replace Drakes launcher harpoints for turrets and add a mining bonus?
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane stuff
If 25m3 is nothing can the other BC's have that as well? It would double the Hurricanes drone bay. 70 DPS is not something you throw around like its nothing.
Your just looking at DPS and the drones, your ignoring its tanking bonus, the fact it can tackle and use some EW while doing all that damage.
Look at Cyclone which has damage bonus and tanking bonus, it is so restricted compared to the Myr its rediculus. Only by using all 8 highs will make its damage in the area of a Myr thats using medium drones. They have the same number of mids, yet one is meant to be shield tanking! Yes one is a tier 2 ship but that shouldn't mean instant win over tier 1's. I bet a Proph has even less chance.
Don't just focus on the new ships, the old ones are meant to still have roles to. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:28:00 -
[83]
is implicit that i'm calculating ship bonuses... i'm not calculating damage mods (as i said) if you want i change the post to avoid misunderstandings but that doesn't change the numbers
so if you prefer
old hurricane 7 220mm (barrage) + ham (rage) + hammerhead II + ship bonuses (no dmg mods) < myrm 5 ogre2 + ship bonuses (no dmg mods, no guns)
better?
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 03:23:21
Originally by: Ath Amon
the old hurricane with 7 220mm (barrage), 1 ham (rage), hammerhead II had a base dps of 463 (no dmg mods and no tanking bonus)... [the myrm just with ogre ourdps it... and have 5 mids, tank bonus and have yet to fit guns...
maybe you should actually read posts.
well pwned myself, the rest still holds up tough
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:44:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 03:45:07 ... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Nebuli
Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 03:46:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Nebuli on 22/11/2006 03:47:45 Cant realy see the problem here, personaly think it needs even more drone bay for spares.
Everyones going on about this ship like it can fit 5 ogre II, HUGE monbster tank AND medium blasters or something.
It CANT, it can fit a tank OR medium blasters, it cant do both, either way just kill its drones and its crippled.
I'm Gal specced primarily, guess what ships out of the new batch I'll be flying?
BS - Caldari BC - Minmatar
Might play around with the Myr, but think its far better suited to PVE than PVP.
2003 player, highly skilled in drones and hybrids, gal BS 5, Caldari BS 4, I will train Caldari BS 5 and train projectiles up and other relevent skills to fly the new Min BC over Myr.
CEO - Art of War
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:05:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:08:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar But it is prolly my fault, CCP seems to be on a rampage to nerf everything I like about EVE. I apologize to everyone affected about loving Minmatar ships.
Fly Gallente please.
Also, the Drake, had Tux just removed the **** resists bonus, would have been fine.
People ***** and moan about god-like setups that they can't beat, yet they refuse to acknowledge the fact that you will NEVER FIGHT SUCH A SETUP IN PVP. Unless you're some honor-bound guy who refuses to warp away, you're never going to lose to those 'overpowered' Drakes. Setup a real pvp Drake, and you'll suddenly find that uber ship isn't very uber, and turn those resists into missile velocity, or whatever, and you'll find that while dealing heayv DPS up cloe, the Drake goes down like lead in water.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:10:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 22/11/2006 04:14:03
Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
***pattern clarc saves up for myrmidon bpo***
I'm not even gunna pretend like its not awesome.
But the best tank has to go to the drake..
10k shields at 70-80% resists WTF? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:12:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Protunia
Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 21/11/2006 23:25:32
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 21/11/2006 23:15:39 This thread is pretty funny. One more heavy drone, ONE, without any replacements... just ONE more heavy drone and the Myrmidon is all of a sudden overpowered. rofl
Use some math people, cut the turrets to compensate and increase drone bay. Now everyone is happy.
1 more heavy drone is 25% more drone damage uhuh, yeah just one
actually? it only adds 20% more drone damage to the total.
Now if you took away one drone from 4 that would be 25%
You have it backwards.
If you have 4 drons, doing 100DPS, thats 400dps.
You get a 5th drone, now you do 500 DPS.
You've just gained 25% more damage. 400x*1.25=500
Now, if you do 500DPS, and suddenly drop to 400DPS, you've just lost 20% DPS. 500*0.8=400
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
***pattern clarc saves up for myrmidon bpo***
I'm not even gunna pretend like its not awesome.
But the best tank has to go to the drake..
10k shields at 70-80% resists WTF?
yes probably the best tanker is drake, expeciall with the huge passive config... (at least is my fav one)
but i'm speaking about (general) defence... consider that drake have to use both high and low for its passive
myrm with "same" slots can fit a good damp+tank setup making it imo the best in defence bc (not to say that the dps will be similar to prenerf gank hurr)
drake can try something similar but will end with similar results in ew and worse tank... also it will sacrifice a lot of its dps
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:32:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
You are obviously 100% clueless. Have you ever tried to pop a high skilled Domi pilot's Ogre II's?
Yes and it's easy.
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Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:33:00 -
[93]
Watching the caldari pilots in this thread kinda reminds me of those old road runner cartoons. The coyote realises hes mid-air, off the side of a cliff, and he claws at the air all he can to try to get back on the cliff. ----
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:36:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
You're conveniently ignoring a pretty critical difference. The myrmidons in your graph can't fit any sort of decent tank at all. The hurricane can fit a nice tank because of the comically low grid costs of autocannons. So if the hurricane can tank and gank at the same time, why should its gank come anywhere near a ship that can't?
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:38:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia People ***** and moan about god-like setups that they can't beat, yet they refuse to acknowledge the fact that you will NEVER FIGHT SUCH A SETUP IN PVP. Unless you're some honor-bound guy who refuses to warp away, you're never going to lose to those 'overpowered' Drakes. Setup a real pvp Drake, and you'll suddenly find that uber ship isn't very uber, and turn those resists into missile velocity, or whatever, and you'll find that while dealing heayv DPS up cloe, the Drake goes down like lead in water.
Bull****. There is plenty of room in PvP for ships that don't have any tackling gear.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:52:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:54:19 difference for similar size weapons is around 250pg... not few but not even that much considering that you have around 750pg to fit tank and that you can eventually fit a RCU instead of a damage mods... (as in the graph dps of prenerf hurr + 3 dmg mods is similar to myrm with 0 dmg mods)
not to say, that you can fit 3 damps in mid that is alredy a veeery good defence
and you have also a tank mod to take in account... so i will not say that myrm tank is crap and hurr tank is god...
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 05:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia People ***** and moan about god-like setups that they can't beat, yet they refuse to acknowledge the fact that you will NEVER FIGHT SUCH A SETUP IN PVP. Unless you're some honor-bound guy who refuses to warp away, you're never going to lose to those 'overpowered' Drakes. Setup a real pvp Drake, and you'll suddenly find that uber ship isn't very uber, and turn those resists into missile velocity, or whatever, and you'll find that while dealing heayv DPS up cloe, the Drake goes down like lead in water.
Bull****. There is plenty of room in PvP for ships that don't have any tackling gear.
QTF, and before the Drake nerf I couldnt beat it with a Myrmidon fitted with neutron blasters, passive shield + active armor tank, not to mention my maxxed skills in gunnery and cruiser equipment on top of the +5% dmg implant and +5% dmg to med blasters implant in a fight starting at 15km.. The drake nerf should have been with the tank not the DPS but a nerf was definetly needed.
Dont even bother to fit a NOS setup on myrmidon, NOS is obsolete after KALI, you are better off with ACs/Arties and a passive shield tank (despite the useless rep bonus), 1-2 neutz in the mix would also guarantee that you will win against any Laser or Blaster boat! KALI 4TW or what? NOT!..
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Jebidus Skari
Amarr Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:27:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kunming The drake nerf should have been with the tank not the DPS but a nerf was definetly needed.
Just quoting the important part. Maybe one day we'll see a good decision with balance but not now it seems.
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:31:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Matrix Aran Watching the caldari pilots in this thread kinda reminds me of those old road runner cartoons. The coyote realises hes mid-air, off the side of a cliff, and he claws at the air all he can to try to get back on the cliff.
BWAHAHAHAHA!!! My Character Stats |
MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:35:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Can you give the Hurricane back its 7 turrets please? This is getting ridiculous.
jim, stop being RP and talk **** for matar - u still know that hurricane is much better than myrmidon.
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:55:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/11/2006 08:00:29
Originally by: MECTO
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Can you give the Hurricane back its 7 turrets please? This is getting ridiculous.
jim, stop being RP and talk **** for matar - u still know that hurricane is much better than myrmidon.
It is? So what would you suggest for combat advice when facing one? You need to get within 10 km to use tech 1 nos, so you get webbed. He sends his drones on you. You try to take out heavy Ogre II's which he constantly scoops and deploys again for invulnerability while also hitting you with null from 6 guns. You can try to use your web to stop his drones from reaching his ship, but that means you cant web the Myrmidon, which means he can dictate range and come right up to you and scoop the drones anyway.
I would try to fight it using barrage because of its extra range, and that means fighting in falloff with very poor damage output, and it also means you cant use nos. All while firing at a cap injected tank with tanking bonuses, and drones with hp and damage bonuses as well.
But the thing is, its pointless to discuss these things in a forum full of gallente players. Nobody wants a balanced game. The arguments is always the same. 850 dps is fair because you can destroy my drones. So im not going to bother. The decisions are made and there is nothing we can do now.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Heelay Ashrum
Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.22 08:56:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 22/11/2006 08:57:01
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
You're conveniently ignoring a pretty critical difference. The myrmidons in your graph can't fit any sort of decent tank at all. The hurricane can fit a nice tank because of the comically low grid costs of autocannons. So if the hurricane can tank and gank at the same time, why should its gank come anywhere near a ship that can't?
The point is thill another .. in a "hurrican vs myrmidon" only an idiot hurrican pilot will shot at myr ( if the minnnie pilot do that he deserve to die :) ). In real fight a hurrican pilot should shoot first drones, so adjust this graph considering one drone poped every 5 secs ( btw u dont need 5 secs to killa single drone )....
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:18:00 -
[103]
If possible could we also see an HP graph over time too.
Face it having your guns blow up would suck wouldnt it?
Thats what drone users face every time. My Character Stats |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:19:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Protunia If possible could we also see an HP graph over time too.
Face it having your guns blow up would suck wouldnt it?
Thats what drone users face every time.
So you want the advantages of drone ships but not the disadvantages then? Roger that.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:36:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Protunia on 22/11/2006 10:40:31 Sure I'll take em, But I dont want to see people whining about drone damage when its not constant like some other damage types are.
My drones tend to get in some stuck state at times where they dont even hit the **** target. On top of that they have to FLY to the target then chase the target if it WMDs.
Do I think having more guns and armor is better??? I dont know I only have flown gallente. But I am sure there are some advantages to having a constant rate of damage rather than drones. I have used missles and they never seem to get stuck on there way to the target. My guns seems to fire flawlessly all the time except when they are reloading.
Question is would all the missle/gun users out there like to have their guns/missles over heat and become useless??
The myr will have 5 heavies AND THATS IT! As they are destroyed the DPS rate continues to go down, down, down..... How would you feel the DPS for your gun/missle boats were cut in half if you fired so many rounds out of them?? Or perhaps they just stopped working and you have to go BUY(FInd) more of them?? My Character Stats |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:41:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/11/2006 10:43:49
Originally by: Protunia
The myr will have 5 heavies AND THATS IT! As they are destroyed the DPS rate continues to go down, down, down..... Hows you feel the DPS for your gun/missle boats were cut in half if you fired so my rounds out of them?? Or perhaps they just stopped working and you have to go BUY(FInd) more of them??
Originally by: Jim McGregor So you want the advantages of drone ships but not the disadvantages then? Roger that.
Edit: Each Ogre II will have more than 1000 armor hp on a myrmidon btw. How much hp does a remote repairer repair btw? Im thinking of putting in 6 of them on a myrmidon.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 10:47:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Protunia on 22/11/2006 10:51:06 Your avoiding the questions :) by asking more questions.
The truth is you would not like it if you guns over heated or just stopped working.
Now when I do start to get into other races ships I might find out having no drones to be much easier than dealing with them.
So do more people use drone boats in PVP or gun/missle boats?
EDIT: Suppose you had to fit guns/missles repairers ;)
And how many people out there are going to use OGRE II's in normal PvP??? My Character Stats |
Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:00:00 -
[108]
While your busy pointing out the negatives of drones don't forget there positives, such as they keep shooting a target even if the ship is jammed. I'd love my turrets to do that
Maybe have a TD only affect 1 turret per module...
And when the Myr had the 5 turrets and misc slots I did think about a remote rep, but targetting the drone in time to rep it (keeping target ship + 5 drones targets, especially if scooping and deploying isn't easy).
This ship can fit 10 medium drones, 5 lights and have damage about the same as a Hurricane and Harbinger but they have to use 2x bonuses to get there damage. If it wasn't for AC's low fitting to fit a big tank you would see a lot more whining about it.
A 2x T2 rep on this ship with a 2x EANM + DC tank will rep roughly: 240 DPS from Hybrids (also the average) up from 175 200 DPS from Proj's up from 145 300 DPS from Lasers up from 215 175 DPS from lowest resit (aka drones/missiles) up from 125
Removing 200 to 300 DPS compared to 150 to 200 dps is a big difference when the HP boost allows time for you to rep. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:07:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/11/2006 11:10:53
Originally by: Protunia
The truth is you would not like it if you guns over heated or just stopped working.
Now when I do start to get into other races ships I might find out having no drones to be much easier than dealing with them.
So do more people use drone boats in PVP or gun/missle boats?
EDIT: Suppose you had to fit guns/missles repairers ;)
And how many people out there are going to use OGRE II's in normal PvP???
OK, I was thinking of quoting myself for the 3:rd time, but ill try to explain what I mean instead. Yes, drones have a disadvantage. They can be destroyed. The advantage of using drones are that you get all those high slots free for nos, repairers or whatever you want. Non-drone ships have guns or missiles in most of those slots. Always. They have to use the slots to do damage. Drone ships dont.
What you have here is a ship with 5 Ogre II, each one having more than 1000 hitpoints, dealing about 450 dps and then 6 nos on top of it to nos the hell out of the opponent so he cant EVER break your tank even with weapons that doesnt use cap. You also have 5 medium slots, so you could potentially fit 2 cap injectors after the essential MWD/webber/disruptor stuff. And you get +37.5% to repair amount as well. You think your tank will have problems?
To prevent drones from getting destroyed, you can scoop/deploy them any number of times, as soon as their shield is gone. How many dominix do you know that gets killed because the opponent manage to kill their drones? It just doesnt happen because their cap is gone so quickly, and then they cant tank anymore. And this ship is exacly like it. Its a pwnmobile just like the Dominix. You would think ccp would learn from earlier mistakes, but then again, I guess it wasnt a mistake to make Domi that good. Its "balanced".
This discussion is a waste of time though. I know you dont agree, and no gallente player will, because of course they want a good ship just like everybody else. I understand that. Im just disappointed in ccp for not creating balance. But its pointless to whine, so I dont know what im doing here... bored I guess. Going to stop posting in this thread now...
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Pepperami
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:17:00 -
[110]
Jim's my hero.
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:35:00 -
[111]
This ship is now better than the Ferox in Every way.
Dont get me wrong im happy you got a ship you can use i would just like to see the ferox get some much needed help Speshly now the drake takes its place as the Mission runner BC.
Could anyone tell me a Ferox set up that coule even come close to scratching this ship?
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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:55:00 -
[112]
As a Gallente who can fly all 4 new BC I have to admit the drone bay boost to the Myrmidon is welcome -makes it a genuine drone boat. Not sure it needed a turret boost and a drone bay boost tho. Escpecially after the nerfs to hurricane and drake.
CCP have, like many developers a tendency to over nerf, they never seem to understand that smaller, changes might have the impact they desire. If the Myrmidon stays as it is then give the Drake back a launcher but not rof (or rof but not launcher) and (maybe) give the hurricane back it turret slot (or as I plan to fly it an extra 25m of drone bay)
Then you would have 4 BCs that all races were at least moderately happy with
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.11.22 11:58:00 -
[113]
whoa!!! all those moanings just for 25 m3? what will i put there? drone titan? only 1 more heavy thats all no more no less ...geez man...get a grip...stop saying now myrmidon is teh uber awesomeness...
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:06:00 -
[114]
I do wish people would stop saying "Mryrmidon with 5 Ogre II s and blasters out DPSs everything!". Its just not a set up that works.
Firstly, you'd have to be an absolute moron to fly the Myrmidon with a full flight of heavies and no spares. Ogres have a few thousand HP, cruiser sig and crappy resists. Most BCs do, what, 400 ish DPS? That means, per drone, it takes maybe 10 seconds to kill one. Now if you had to lose 20% of your DPS every 10 seconds, do you think you'd win? It'd be like fighting with no spare ammo- sure your DPS rocks, but it isn't going to last a whole fight. With the new 50% longer battles, you'll have no problem popping each one at a leisurely pace, while the Myrmidon hovers around ineffectualy.
If, however, you replace the absurd concept of 5 heavies and no spares with, lets say, 2 heavies and 8 mediums (3 + spares), you've got a whole different kettle of fish. Your DPS is now, magically, alot lower. I'd love to see someone bring up a graph to see how much lower- but its lower. However, like this, you have spare- people won't neccessarily insta-pop your drones, because they wont know what spares you're packing. And if they do, then you'll end up with a lower DPS over the medium term (about equivalent to a vexor) but atleast you'll still be doing *some* DPS.
So quit pretending that a 5 Ogre Myrm is a wtfpwn mobile.
And Blasters? You've gotta be kidding me.
Firstly, the ship has no turret bonuses, so the incentive to fit blasters isn't there. While most blaster boats are inflated by thhe 25% damage bonus, this thing isn't. The Myrm is slow- its very slow. The odds of it making an effective Thorax-style MWD machine really arn't high. Futhermore its got a bonus to active tank- if you're being forced to fit dual MARs to take advantage of this bonus, you're not going to have any Cap spare for cap-eating guns, let alone MWD cripplage.
I can't see any reason why people would fit anything other than Projectiles on the Myrm, along with a healthy selection of Nos and Neut. -----------------------------------------------
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:24:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 22/11/2006 11:10:53
Originally by: Protunia
The truth is you would not like it if you guns over heated or just stopped working.
Now when I do start to get into other races ships I might find out having no drones to be much easier than dealing with them.
So do more people use drone boats in PVP or gun/missle boats?
EDIT: Suppose you had to fit guns/missles repairers ;)
And how many people out there are going to use OGRE II's in normal PvP???
OK, I was thinking of quoting myself for the 3:rd time, but ill try to explain what I mean instead. Yes, drones have a disadvantage. They can be destroyed. The advantage of using drones are that you get all those high slots free for nos, repairers or whatever you want. Non-drone ships have guns or missiles in most of those slots. Always. They have to use the slots to do damage. Drone ships dont.
What you have here is a ship with 5 Ogre II, each one having more than 1000 hitpoints, dealing about 450 dps and then 6 nos on top of it to nos the hell out of the opponent so he cant EVER break your tank even with weapons that doesnt use cap. You also have 5 medium slots, so you could potentially fit 2 cap injectors after the essential MWD/webber/disruptor stuff. And you get +37.5% to repair amount as well. You think your tank will have problems?
To prevent drones from getting destroyed, you can scoop/deploy them any number of times, as soon as their shield is gone. How many dominix do you know that gets killed because the opponent manage to kill their drones? It just doesnt happen because their cap is gone so quickly, and then they cant tank anymore. And this ship is exacly like it. Its a pwnmobile just like the Dominix. You would think ccp would learn from earlier mistakes, but then again, I guess it wasnt a mistake to make Domi that good. Its "balanced".
This discussion is a waste of time though. I know you dont agree, and no gallente player will, because of course they want a good ship just like everybody else. I understand that. Im just disappointed in ccp for not creating balance. But its pointless to whine, so I dont know what im doing here... bored I guess. Going to stop posting in this thread now...
You keep comparing the Myr to a Domi- it's not a Domi! No backup drones when using heavies, no heavy nos with 25km range, etc. etc. etc.
The concept just does *not* scale down. The Myr is more like the Vexor than the Domi: similar cap, similar nos range, similar drone count. Wouldn't you agree that 5 drones is closer to 3 than to 14? Because a Domi can carry around 14 Heavies.
Because I said so...
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Radix Salvilines
Virtual Democracy Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:29:00 -
[116]
You guys remember the first topic when gallenteans were whinning that they got the worst bc of all and the Caldaris were saying "shut up its all balanced and nerfed because the devs think its right", or "stop whinning devs likes caldari the most", or etc...
The situation rolled over now. And Caldaris are Gallenteans now.
For me Drake was indeed overpowered as Myrmi was useless. Now its more balanced - its just some peoples that cant understand this fact that it was not okay then and it is now are whinning. If in testing it will come out that Gallente ships are to strong they will be nerfed - its 100%.
I understand that everyone here wants to have an uber ship for his race but hell -> State what you think about this, how to distribute power to balance all ships and stop whinning "they got more now!", "why we got nerfed?!", "CCP you sux, you have meda THEM a whinning button".
Make your posts constructive for gods sake.
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Lirt
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:42:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Lirt on 22/11/2006 12:44:40 Before some days: caldari, minmatar BC were good, gallente amarr not so good. Now: Caladari, mimatar are getting nerfed, gallente getting buffed (again) Makes me wonder which race CCP favors...
To the above poster: Ofc you find drake imbalanced as well as every other ship, but ofc you find gallente one perfectly balanced. How strange really......
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:12:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 14:14:42
Originally by: Heelay Ashrum Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 22/11/2006 08:57:01
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 22/11/2006 04:07:41 here a little graph comparsion of old prenrf hurricane vs new postboost myrm
(hoping numbers are right :P)
graph1 (gank)
graph2 (hurr gank vs myrm tank)
this is quite interesting as it compare the old and clearly overpowered hurricane with its huge dps (2 ship bonuses and 3 damage mods) against a myrmidon with 1 ship bonus and no damage mods... i have to add the myrm have also a tank bonus and 1 more mid slot?
to get hurricane nerfed cause high dps: 3 page of whinage to get drake nerfed cause big tank and good damage: 5 page of whinage to get the myrmidon boosted to best dps and defence: priceless
You're conveniently ignoring a pretty critical difference. The myrmidons in your graph can't fit any sort of decent tank at all. The hurricane can fit a nice tank because of the comically low grid costs of autocannons. So if the hurricane can tank and gank at the same time, why should its gank come anywhere near a ship that can't?
The point is thill another .. in a "hurrican vs myrmidon" only an idiot hurrican pilot will shot at myr ( if the minnnie pilot do that he deserve to die :) ). In real fight a hurrican pilot should shoot first drones, so adjust this graph considering one drone poped every 5 secs ( btw u dont need 5 secs to killa single drone )....
in a gang situation it will be difficult that someone start to shot drones but anyway... in hurr vs myrm 3 damps and a bit of drone management can do wonders...
as said this ship pratically coa build a fit with good ew+tank+damage... this is not that different than the nerfed drake (that was considered overpowered by almost everyone) with the difference that myrm will have a worse tank but good dps, good ew and will be able to build more functional fittings
and also i can't explain how the dps of a ship was so good to need a nerf and a ship that reach same dps in tank config, have 1 more utility (ew) slot, have a tank bonus is not...
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:53:00 -
[119]
Funny part is what Myrmidon is now much better sniper than all other BC's...
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:48:00 -
[120]
the problem is not dmg itself but the curve and other ships stats...
i agree with you that if proj will do more dps than hybrid ships no one will fly gallente but on the other hand if hybrid do more damage at all range and have not a severe drawback to balance that then no one will fly minnie...
cap can be and is a drawback but not severe to the point to justify higher dps from 0 to 500km as you have to consider that doing more damage you are also requiring to the defender to use more cap, so this is somewhat balanced...
in particular for this ship the balance is a bit "out of window" because not only it does extreme dps, but becaose it have also a tankbonus and veeeeeery good ew (damps) capability...
damps also mean that probably you are not going to get nosed and that you keep your drones alive whitout much trouble, "fixing" also the weak points supposed to balance the ship
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:00:00 -
[121]
Of course, the good news is that the 'Battlecruisers' skill is transferrable. So anyone who could fly one of the other BCs can just train up 2 days of gallente cruiser 3 and then fly this one.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 23:43:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia People ***** and moan about god-like setups that they can't beat, yet they refuse to acknowledge the fact that you will NEVER FIGHT SUCH A SETUP IN PVP. Unless you're some honor-bound guy who refuses to warp away, you're never going to lose to those 'overpowered' Drakes. Setup a real pvp Drake, and you'll suddenly find that uber ship isn't very uber, and turn those resists into missile velocity, or whatever, and you'll find that while dealing heayv DPS up cloe, the Drake goes down like lead in water.
Bull****. There is plenty of room in PvP for ships that don't have any tackling gear.
Yes, as bait and/or damage dealers who get ignored and Ewared then killed once the other targets are dead.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.22 23:47:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Protunia If possible could we also see an HP graph over time too.
Face it having your guns blow up would suck wouldnt it?
Thats what drone users face every time.
Have you ever tried to kill 4000hp heavy drones when they keep getting scooped and their shields recharged?
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Griever Takkow
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:18:00 -
[124]
Heres a solution to the drone problem then.
Give all drones really tiny crappy shields.
Scoop em all you like and u wont be saving much hp.
And on the subject, yes, an Ogre II with BC 5 and Drone Durability 5 willl have approx 3900 HP, spread across all 3 layers. But please bear in mind that they have standard resists, They will die very fast.
And all the time theyre being scooped back and fowrads they wont be shooting you.
And if you throw a web on one it doesnt matter if it does get recalled cos it wont MWD back to the Myrmidon cos of the state of drone bugs and you can blow it up anyway. And all of a sudden you are taking 70 dps less.
Repeat that a few times and the myrmy is doing less damage than the most basic cruiser.
And while we're on the subject.
Vexor can launch 3 heavys, OLD myrmy could launch 4. thats 33% more drone DPS. Vexor has turret damage bonus, meaning it will get more ore less the same dps from its 4 guns as a Myrmy will from its 6.
My maths sucks but im willing to bet that that equates to the OLD Myrmy doing MAYBE 20% more DPS when using heavies and guns than the Vexor , A TIER 2 CRUISER.
Anyone that thinks that is fair needs their head examined.
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:37:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Protunia If possible could we also see an HP graph over time too.
Face it having your guns blow up would suck wouldnt it?
Thats what drone users face every time.
Have you ever tried to kill 4000hp heavy drones when they keep getting scooped and their shields recharged?
even then drones that are not attcking at all mean less DPS My Character Stats |
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