EVE Search - Death of Jamming as a tactic?

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Death of Jamming as a tactic?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
SSgt Sniper	Posted - 2006.11.29 08:23:00 - [1] With the huge amount of cut to ecm, Gallente which had few Ewar options before seem to have lost it as a tactic altogether. Discuss.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 08:25:00 - [2] Death of jamming as an exploit, yes. - EVE is sick.
SSgt Sniper In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.29 08:31:00 - [3] and how is jamming an exploit?
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.11.29 08:41:00 - [4] Originally by: SSgt Sniper and how is jamming an exploit? "OMG KEKEKE 4.6 MULTI I JAM CARRIER GOOOD." It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Gerraine	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:00:00 - [5] EWAR drones wernt nerfed :)
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:05:00 - [6] Jammers are jsut not as efficient as before unless you put some damage mods in your low slots... You can still use jammers and you can also use sensor dampeners or a combination.
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:06:00 - [7] It wasn't an exploit, but it was way too effective, overpowered to hell and back, and using it on any ship other than a scorp/blackbird/T2 variant is lame. Now that this I-win button is more or less gone, you'll have to actually think about what to put in your Nos-Domi. Oh, the outrage! ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
SSgt Sniper In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Gerraine EWAR drones wernt nerfed :) I've pretty much resigned to carrying 5 at all times. Sadly. Oh and about jamming carriers: point taken but wouldn't it have made more sense to amp up the carriers instead of gutting the ECM? I'm sorry but when I can go outside and turn two Ion II's on, two ecm drones, and STILL not jam a Gallente cruiser carrying absolutely no eccm, that's just a little, insane. The other thing they could do is give at least one Gallente Cruiser a ecm bonus to match the Blackbird. Damps only buy you so much time now that the idea is to promote a longer fight.
SSgt Sniper In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Shadowsword It wasn't an exploit, but it was way too effective, overpowered to hell and back, and using it on any ship other than a scorp/blackbird/T2 variant is lame. Now that this I-win button is more or less gone, you'll have to actually think about what to put in your Nos-Domi. Oh, the outrage! In a short fight, yes it could be the I win!.... but not so much in the longer fight......
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Jammers are jsut not as efficient as before unless you put some damage mods in your low slots... You can still use jammers and you can also use sensor dampeners or a combination. nope even with a full set of ewar damage mods and rigs u wont get there where u where before the patch
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:40:00 - [11] Save your effort, the scorp and rook took a quite severe hit too. In order to be as good as they were, you get no lowslots and no rigslots. However, losing ECMs ... well they were clearly overpowered - every ship I ran into was fitting them in the last few months, except the odd few that just had ECCMs instead. Does this mean no ewar options? No not at all. ECMs are now much less effective. This leaves: ECM drones Remote sensor dampers Tracking disruptors. I'm confused. The _only_ reason a tracking disruptor isn't considered overpowered is because you might run into a raven. 50% tracking and 50% optimal reduction (T2 mod, reasonable skills) will _severely_ hurt the dps of a turret ship. Maybe even to the point where it cannot hit you at all, but maybe just to the point where it does less damage. Remote damps are also, 100% effective if used well. They reduce locking range, making 'kiting' much more effective. 2 RSD IIs with good skills will drop a battleship below 20km locking range. That means you can orbit at 20, scramble and it cannot hit. Better yet, that's 100% success rate. The _only_ reason RSDs and TDs didn't catch on is because they require just a little bit more thought than an ECM about how/when to use them. At 0km and double webbed, they're fairly useless, where an ECM isn't. At 10-20km and orbiting, they're deadly. Consider for a moment: RSD II reduces locking speed and locking distance. You're flying a blaster ship. You a) have time to close before they lock you and b) force them to come closer to lock you in the first place. Oh, and locking time is also -re- locking time. Get out those ECM drones, and damp your opponent, and you'll vastly multiply their effectiveness.
Nadec Ascand Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:59:00 - [12] Easy... Get our old ECM back i mean the one we used 2 years ago the one who needed ya to cumulative ur ecm to match the sensor strengh of ur opponent. No a odd lucky based one where u never know what ur going to have. BTW i have a rook for sell if any one want this ship is now useless. IT barely have dps to get anything bigger than a cruiser and cant jam anything wearing an eccm below it... Simple math with my skills a gravimetric named ecm will have a strengh of 7 a rook with a eccm T2 modul will have a strengh of 63...any BS will be below 41... wich mean to be sure to JAM 1 opponent i need all my slot fitted with the correct ecm i dont have enough cap to sustain that ships had a hp increase wich mean figh will be longer wich mean i need to be sure it gonna work or im toast glad i have skills to fly a lachesis until they nerf dampeners
SSgt Sniper In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:00:00 - [13] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 29/11/2006 10:06:21 Originally by: James Lyrus Save your effort, the scorp and rook took a quite severe hit too. In order to be as good as they were, you get no lowslots and no rigslots. However, losing ECMs ... well they were clearly overpowered - every ship I ran into was fitting them in the last few months, except the odd few that just had ECCMs instead. Does this mean no ewar options? No not at all. ECMs are now much less effective. This leaves: ECM drones Remote sensor dampers Tracking disruptors. I'm confused. The _only_ reason a tracking disruptor isn't considered overpowered is because you might run into a raven. 50% tracking and 50% optimal reduction (T2 mod, reasonable skills) will _severely_ hurt the dps of a turret ship. Maybe even to the point where it cannot hit you at all, but maybe just to the point where it does less damage. Remote damps are also, 100% effective if used well. They reduce locking range, making 'kiting' much more effective. 2 RSD IIs with good skills will drop a battleship below 20km locking range. That means you can orbit at 20, scramble and it cannot hit. Better yet, that's 100% success rate. The _only_ reason RSDs and TDs didn't catch on is because they require just a little bit more thought than an ECM about how/when to use them. At 0km and double webbed, they're fairly useless, where an ECM isn't. At 10-20km and orbiting, they're deadly. Consider for a moment: RSD II reduces locking speed and locking distance. You're flying a blaster ship. You a) have time to close before they lock you and b) force them to come closer to lock you in the first place. Oh, and locking time is also -re- locking time. Get out those ECM drones, and damp your opponent, and you'll vastly multiply their effectiveness. oh no no ,my friend, I loved Damps. Let me tell you a little story. (I always tell little stories) My Caldari corpmate Zek and I have this little thing. We meet in a set place and fight once a week, him in Blackbird me in Celly. My Celly was fitted tech II spat damp and muon RSD, he had t II Ion field. Now I wouldn't always jam him, nor him me, but by and large he'd jam me most of the time. However when I did get a lock and jam him back, once he was unjammed he still had to deal with my RSD. hehe t was a fun give and take and we usually traded victories. Now, not so much. He at least has a ship class bonus to help him jam me, I cannot jam him at ALL. if I don't get first lock and RSD him in time, I lose. And if I don't break his tank in the time it takes him to finally get the lock on me, I still lose. :( Gallente need one ship that has ECM bonus to match us back up with the Blackbird, even if it's a really small ecm bonus. (To Quote: "Short help is better than no help at all") Barring that, give us back some of what you took away ccp. (and hush about the drones before they nerf that too) EDIT TO ADD: tracking disruptors will indeed hurt a Brut, and Thorax. Vexor, Domi have drones, Mega has at least two launchers slots available to fall back upon in the event of tracking disruption. (As for the other races, I can make no informed comment)
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Exiled One Originally by: SSgt Sniper and how is jamming an exploit? "OMG KEKEKE 4.6 MULTI I JAM CARRIER GOOOD." Fluke based an ****poor chance-based mechanics and exploits are completely different. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:24:00 - [15] Gallente complaining about their Ewar? try using Target Painters for once then come back to tell that gallente have poor e-war.. pfff
Noriath	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:34:00 - [16] With this change the ECM specialty ships are even more powerful then before while everyone else can't really use ECM anymore. Total lameness, just another thing that forces you to train Caldari.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Noriath With this change the ECM specialty ships are even more powerful then before while everyone else can't really use ECM anymore. Total lameness, just another thing that forces you to train Caldari. Well, Caldari ECM ships actually have a slight side-effect in that their damage and tank output tend to be... shall we say even worse than Minnie AC boats ;) - EVE is sick.
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:38:00 - [18] Try using racial ECM is not that bad. Still far more iusefull than target painters (that are something that only caldary seems to use in ravens)
SSgt Sniper In Excess Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Try using racial ECM is not that bad. Still far more iusefull than target painters (that are something that only caldary seems to use in ravens) Target painting on a Domi or Vexor is nice, amped up drone damage good..... huhe,huhe, huhe [/renfield laugh]
AshFish Crazy 88's O X I D E	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:13:00 - [20] well I thought that this would not effect ECM specific ships and that racial jammers would still be useful until today, when I was taken out by a mega at a gate even though I had 2 racial and 4 non-racial jammers (the 2 racial alone I expected to give me maybe a 50% jam success). I believe in the whole fight I got 1 successful jam cycle and subsequently lost my ship. I see no reason at all to continue training any more ecm skills as although I have good skills they are not quite maxed. I also see little to no point in having ecm specialists in any engament below large fleet as the modules and therefore ships are as good as useless. Yes I know I can fit the low slot boosters but then how do I get my lock time above anyone else? and how do i try to keep my ship alive when the ecm modules fail a cycle or 4! This also applies to rigs, does my 1 trick pony of an ecm specific ship have no chance of being able to do anything else now just so that it can keep a jam on its target so that its paper thin tank and laughable damage don't make me target practice for the pirates. And if someone fits eccm to their damage dealer then i might as well throw the modules at the ship for the good it does me. I know before the patch ecm was overpowered but this has just made it weak and feeble, I might as well fit sensor dampners to my scorp it will do more good in thew long run. I doubt that caldari ecm ships will be called primary anymore as they pose little or no threat to small skirmish engagments. And have little threat in the larger engagments. A bit of a rant i know but this has shocked me rather as to how far its dropped Anyway just my thoughts maybe i'm wrong
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:18:00 - [21] from sunday's dev-blog on some totally different topic, but hey Originally by: "" [...]It is in line with the EVE vision that the gamers should be minimally subject to luck and maximally subject to skill.[...] totally remove ecm! ^^
Arktaos Minmatar The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:34:00 - [22] ecm is still overpowered a lot. Just tried fitting 2 named caldari jammers on my tempest before DT and going against a raven. Had him jammed 50% of the time, if not more. ---------------------------------
Exogene	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:37:00 - [23] What people don't seem to understand is, Kali/Revelations is all about specialization and i think CCP has done a good job in the case of jamming.
dot me	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:38:00 - [24] Originally by: James Lyrus Does this mean no ewar options? No not at all. ECMs are now much less effective. This leaves: ECM drones Remote sensor dampers Tracking disruptors. I'm confused. The _only_ reason a tracking disruptor isn't considered overpowered is because you might run into a raven. 50% tracking and 50% optimal reduction (T2 mod, reasonable skills) will _severely_ hurt the dps of a turret ship. Maybe even to the point where it cannot hit you at all, but maybe just to the point where it does less damage. ahem. WRONG. althow it does hurt you in terms of tracking, TD's only hurt you big time when you don't have falloff or have poor traking. that means .. well wouldn't you know it .. lasers. ahem pulse lasers to be exact. blasters do get hurt a litle because of the reduced tracking. but need us not forget that moust blaster boats also have nice drone bays and have optimal range of virtualy 0. so that leaves arty's? that already depend on firing in hudge falloff range with litle optimal to speak off. now maybe you will see why TD's are not considered overpowered. cause you don't see alot of laser ships in pvp anymore.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:42:00 - [25] The problem with ECM was never the strength. It's the fact that they are chance based. If you are unlucky you will still get permajammed by a single inty with a single t1 multispec. Or wrong racial. It was impropable before, and it is impropable still. The chances didn't change that much. Luck is still a major factor. The big problem was ppl not fitting ECCM units. Now everyone has even less need to fit em, but they will still come here and whine, since they will get jammed. IMHO, how it should work: If you have less ECCM than the jammer has ECM ---> no lock. If you are unprepared for what is brought against you, you should lose. But no. Ppl want their gank/tank/whatever optimized setups to work against any possible setup, and hence we got a lot of whine and an unneeded nerf. So CCP, nerf Whine plz. It's teh I win button. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
AshFish Crazy 88's O X I D E	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Exogene What people don't seem to understand is, Kali/Revelations is all about specialization and i think CCP has done a good job in the case of jamming. I have nothing against specialisation but when your specialised then you should be effective. Therefore if I am a jamming specialist, I should be very effective at jamming as I have no tanking abilities or damage dealing effectivness, but I don't see that I will. Infact I won't be as effective as a jammer as I was pre-patch with less skills and less specialisation. In otherwords i'm there for entertainment and target practice at the end of the engagments. I might as well fit a 12 slot, 3 rig tank to my scorp and be the film maker as my ecm capabilities even when specialised within skills and fit will be less than useless.
Kal'Kalagan Takahashi Syndicate Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.29 11:58:00 - [27] Edited by: Kal''Kalagan on 29/11/2006 11:58:32 Has anyone got a link showing exactly what changes have been made to EW and the related ships please. The information in the patch notes does not seem complete as I am hearing on these forums that more changes have been made. Scorp nerf - 20% reduction in EW effectiveness - where can I read up on these??? Thanks.
Agent2 Holtze Amarr Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.29 13:42:00 - [28] They should make jamming like in the old days tbh. Posting and you!
Dexton Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:09:00 - [29] Weather this nerf is good or bad is arguable but it doesnt do any thing to fix the problem tux said he was trying to fix(ecm beeing used with out losing any tank) and its hitting the ships he talked about not nerfing the hardest the ecm boats are all close to useless now either they lose the little damage they had for having the same ecm strength they used too or lose ahole lot of ecm strength that wasnt really that great. On the other hand the domi, curse and pilgrim get a little less change to jam or switch to dampeners. I would realy like an explenation from tux how this was suppost to fix this problem. But im very happy with all the other changes great job CCP
Nadec Ascand Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Agent2 Holtze They should make jamming like in the old days tbh. /me hug and sign BTW thoose low slot item aren't on market atm, and this woujld mean no more armor tanking for scorp or rook. wich make them more vulnerable. 16% modules on rook => without stacking penality and adding 2 of thoose mean racial jammer T2 become 12,1 strengh when it was 13 without it... No tank less jam... Evryone should try lachesis dampener ROCKS :)

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.