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Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:37:00 - [1] Ok, so even more people (mission runners) are leaving low sec due to how easy it is to scan for a ship now. 0.0 was, and still is safer than low sec, if you know what you are doing. Proposed changes: 1) move all lv 4 missions to low sec 2) change low sec belt spawns to be on par with 0.0, perhaps slightly worse 3) introduce better ore types to low sec belts 4) make scanning a tad harder And finally we may see more people in low sec. Right now it's just not worth it for the majority. Simply no reward versus the risk involved.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:39:00 - [2] And people will still have to go back to Jita/Hubs to buy items. That needs addressing first... //Maya
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:42:00 - [3] Originally by: Maya Rkell And people will still have to go back to Jita/Hubs to buy items. That needs addressing first... Who cares where people buy stuff? That's not what the thread is about either.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:43:00 - [4] Maybe exploration will make it more interesting. From what I hear, you find better stuff in low sec than high sec. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ashurn Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:43:00 - [5] I love how these people who keep on asking for level 4 agents to be moved to low sec to so to better replenish their prey population. Why not ask for level 5, ultra-lucrative agents instead? You know, mission runners would just downgrade to level 3 agents and run them easier/faster instead of going to 4 since the risk vs reward is still unbalanced due to the ease of probing people out. Level 4 agents in low sec, doesn't ease out the risk versus reward, it will still be More Risk than Rewards. Other than your 1st point, I agree to with rest of the changes you've asked.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:43:00 - [6] It is the single major barrier to movement. Lowsec is allready more profitable, but without the items avaliable people won't spend significant time there. //Maya
Valan	Posted - 2006.12.02 22:54:00 - [7] If rats were that interested in PvP they would move to empire and war dec corps. But they don't want a fight they want an easy gank. You wouldn't have to worry about timers or sentries its open war. In empire its difficult to see the enemy coming. They will be weary and not tanking half a dozen rats when you attack. No easy kills I'm afraid you'll have to work for your isk. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:06:00 - [8] Edited by: Ihar Enda on 02/12/2006 23:08:52 Originally by: Jim McGregor Maybe exploration will make it more interesting. From what I hear, you find better stuff in low sec than high sec. But probably 0.0 has even better stuff? That's the problem, the huge gaping hole between low sec and 0.0. In 0.0 you have prequent BS spawns worth milions, in low sec I think BC is the best you can find. Why risk getting ganked when 0.0 is safer and rewards are way better? Once you're in deep 0.0, it's safer than the Forge.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:08:00 - [9] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/12/2006 23:12:59 Originally by: Valan If rats were that interested in PvP they would move to empire and war dec corps. But they don't want a fight they want an easy gank. You wouldn't have to worry about timers or sentries its open war. In empire its difficult to see the enemy coming. They will be weary and not tanking half a dozen rats when you attack. No easy kills I'm afraid you'll have to work for your isk. Meh. You have apparently not tried pirating if you think its easy. Everybody who sees you will try to kill you, preferably with a blob and most likely call you a coward for not fighting the blob. Please try to live in low sec for a while and see how easy it is to gank mission runners, when you are likely to be attacked yourself by other pirates everywhere you go. If its really that easy, why arent everybody doing it btw? And you cant escape to high sec when you get tired of getting killed or chased around. You cant even buy modules without an alt. Just imagine that play style. Its pretty rough. But fun. Originally by: Ihar Enda Once you're in deep 0.0, it's safer than the Forge. Sure, but you can have trouble getting in and out of there. Buying ammo for example can be a problem unless you have a station out there. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deikan Frost Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:09:00 - [10] Edited by: Deikan Frost on 02/12/2006 23:09:03 sigh another pirate griefer complaining that there's not as much "preys" to kill in low sec. Tough luck Nancy... just go kill mobs or assault complexes for a change... If you want some action, get enrolled to fight wars for an alliance or something...
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Deikan Frost just go kill mobs or assault complexes for a change... If you want some action, get enrolled to fight wars for an alliance or something... I find killing rats just as boring as fighting in blobs. Thank you.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Ihar Enda Ok, so even more people (mission runners) are leaving low sec due to how easy it is to scan for a ship now. 0.0 was, and still is safer than low sec, if you know what you are doing. Proposed changes: 1) move all lv 4 missions to low sec 2) change low sec belt spawns to be on par with 0.0, perhaps slightly worse 3) introduce better ore types to low sec belts 4) make scanning a tad harder And finally we may see more people in low sec. Right now it's just not worth it for the majority. Simply no reward versus the risk involved. I left low sec because of gang-gank bands of ships that give a lone ship no chance. I can't always have my mates with me. I left because of gate campers who have now found ways to continue thier cowardly acts even with WTZ. If they move lvl 4's to low sec..no worries I just wont do 4's. You want to repopulate low-sec? Get rid of the *******'s. Cheers ---
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart I left low sec because of gang-gank bands of ships that give a lone ship no chance. I can't always have my mates with me. I left because of gate campers who have now found ways to continue thier cowardly acts even with WTZ. If they move lvl 4's to low sec..no worries I just wont do 4's. You want to repopulate low-sec? Get rid of the ******'s. Cheers Give people enough reward, and they will* take the risk.
zevex	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:25:00 - [14] Seriously...if you get ganked in low sec, even with the warp to zero option, you are simply careless and deserve to be ganked. Here is a hint for safe travel....WARP CORE STABS. I know I know, the Eve community hates them...or do they? People hate them when they are used in PvP, thus the recent nerf, but there is no shame in using them for travel. Fill your lows with nano fibers and stabs until you get to where you are going, then dock and refit. With "warp to zero", gate campers should not be able to catch you warping into a gate, and when you are warping away from a gate the stabs should facilitate an easy get away...oh, and if you are in a frigate, you dont even need stabs because you should be able to get to warp before any tacklers can lock you. Now quit whining, use your head, and play the game.
Deikan Frost Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Deikan Frost just go kill mobs or assault complexes for a change... If you want some action, get enrolled to fight wars for an alliance or something... I find killing rats just as boring as fighting in blobs. Thank you. Well, you can't blame people for not wanting to be ganked all the time. Again, whar you're talking about is only in 0.0 borders, close to empire space (where most of the gankers are). If you want some action that is "more entertaining than mobs" then go in DEEP 0.0 space where other alliances have established their territory and try to pick fights with them, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to engage...
Kiyano	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Ihar Enda Give people enough reward, and they will take the risk. Definately true, right now as it is i do not believe level 4's are a sufficent increase in reward to warrent low sec runs compared to the isk/hour of level 3's. So yeah if you were gonna move 4's to low sec they'd have to be made better or level 3's nerfed or as someone else said create level 5's.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Kiyano Originally by: Ihar Enda Give people enough reward, and they will take the risk. Definately true, right now as it is i do not believe level 4's are a sufficent increase in reward to warrent low sec runs compared to the isk/hour of level 3's. So yeah if you were gonna move 4's to low sec they'd have to be made better or level 3's nerfed or as someone else said create level 5's. I tend to agree.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Draconia Blackheart I left low sec because of gang-gank bands of ships that give a lone ship no chance. I can't always have my mates with me. I left because of gate campers who have now found ways to continue thier cowardly acts even with WTZ. If they move lvl 4's to low sec..no worries I just wont do 4's. You want to repopulate low-sec? Get rid of the ******'s. Cheers Give people enough reward, and they will* take the risk. Define enough reward? For example, I fly lvl 4 missions in a raven (100mil isk), with around another 100mil isk in fittings. (nothing faction, serious T2 tank) lets boost level 4 missions to average about 10 mil isk in rewards (bounties and mission reward)(and listen to the non-carebears scream about our instsnt isk fountain) so, 10 missions to replace my fittings if I get ganked, 10 more to replace my ship (if not insured, which it is) On some of the harder missions (extravaganza missions, etc..) I'm usually running near the edge of sustaining my tank...if a pirate jumps in, I'm popped, no questions asked unless I escape. With the new scanning system, anybody with the IQ of a monkey (at a guess, around 1/2 the gankbears (gankbears, not pirates..there is a difference) then) can find me in minutes with probes. It takes a good hour+ to do these missions..so they have lots of time to see the rats I'm fighting, go home, swith to hit my resistance hole and pop me. Say this happens every 10th mission (optimistic I know....) Pop..I'm out 10 missions worth of isk, probably podded, and have just gained approx nothing over the previous week or so. MOre often than that, and I'm losing money missioning...fun, huh? the rewards would have to be insanely high to make low sec worth the risk. I feel safer in 0.0
Ab Tallen The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:37:00 - [19] IMHO, there is not much use in tweaking game parameters in order to move people in a direction they don't want to take: Most of them will just look for another game that fits their style better. If you'd like to live in low sec, the recipe is probably identical to the one for 0.0: Find a group of people who want to do the same, and set up shop in a nice system. Arrange for relative peace with your neighbours. Be friendly to traders. Be a threat to pirates. It takes a few very dedicated people to coordinate and hold together the less dedicated, but there's nothing impossible there. Personally, I'm not really a friend of game mechanics that only work for groups. It's hard to play as a group if you don't want to dedicate whole evenings to the game. I like to be able to do a short mission and then go off for something else. But I'm fascinated enough by the EVE environment to invest some time into activities that make my home region more secure. Let's call it a community service. It seems to work for the time being.
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:38:00 - [20] Originally by: zevex Seriously...if you get ganked in low sec, even with the warp to zero option, you are simply careless and deserve to be ganked. Here is a hint for safe travel....WARP CORE STABS. I know I know, the Eve community hates them...or do they? People hate them when they are used in PvP, thus the recent nerf, but there is no shame in using them for travel. Fill your lows with nano fibers and stabs until you get to where you are going, then dock and refit. With "warp to zero", gate campers should not be able to catch you warping into a gate, and when you are warping away from a gate the stabs should facilitate an easy get away...oh, and if you are in a frigate, you dont even need stabs because you should be able to get to warp before any tacklers can lock you. Now quit whining, use your head, and play the game. Great idea for level 4 fighting missions...no really...I'm not being sarcastic at all. Admittedly usefuly for courier missions...useless as t1t$ on a bull for combat missions, which is where the scanners find us.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:38:00 - [21] They shouldnt have higher bounties for low sec, but they should have unique loot you cant get anywhere else. That in itself would make the missions both more fun and more valuable. I would do them, and I have plenty of iskies. I want what I cant get somewhere else. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deikan Frost Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Ihar Enda Originally by: Kiyano Originally by: Ihar Enda Give people enough reward, and they will take the risk. Definately true, right now as it is i do not believe level 4's are a sufficent increase in reward to warrent low sec runs compared to the isk/hour of level 3's. So yeah if you were gonna move 4's to low sec they'd have to be made better or level 3's nerfed or as someone else said create level 5's. I tend to agree. Well, why not add "Gang" missions then? Missions you can only do when you're more than a few players, as in the agent won't even give you the mission if you are not already in a gang of a certain size, and the Navigation Beacon will not let you warp unless you are in a gang either. THAT would attract people in low-sec since they wouldn't be alone. The rewards for such missions would of course be very big since the loot and isk would be splitted through all the gang members and the enemies would be a lot stronger too... You could have 'Escort" type missions, where you have to cover some NPC's while they repair a station or something (hence needing more than one pilot to do the job) and such... There's a lot of possibilities for gang missions... Would THAT be good enough for you? Or you would prefer to have more "solo" players venture in low sec so you can get easy kills?
Flaming Lemming	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Deikan Frost Well, why not add "Gang" missions then? Missions you can only do when you're more than a few players, as in the agent won't even give you the mission if you are not already in a gang of a certain size, and the Navigation Beacon will not let you warp unless you are in a gang either. THAT would attract people in low-sec since they wouldn't be alone. The rewards for such missions would of course be very big since the loot and isk would be splitted through all the gang members and the enemies would be a lot stronger too... You could have 'Escort" type missions, where you have to cover some NPC's while they repair a station or something (hence needing more than one pilot to do the job) and such... There's a lot of possibilities for gang missions... Would THAT be good enough for you? Or you would prefer to have more "solo" players venture in low sec so you can get easy kills? While I left a previous game (FFXI) due to the absolute reliace on grouping...I have to admit that this isn't a bad idea, as long as solo missions aren't nerfed. I don't have a problem playing with others, I just like having the option to do my own thing sometimes.
zevex	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:51:00 - [24] I think that one of the thing that commonly gets forgotten here is that CCP wants low sec to be a little undesireable because they want 0.0 to be more populated. I hate pirates that consistantly haunt low sec, don't get me wrong, I'll pop a carebear here and there if I see an easy target while I am passing thru a 0.4 system, but I spend 95% of my time in 0.0. IMHO the players that do nothing but prey on the weak in low sec and call themselves pirates (i.e. professional grievers) are nothing but cowards that lack the testicular fortitude to venture out to 0.0 to play with the big dogs.
Faykan Corrino	Posted - 2006.12.02 23:57:00 - [25] major problem with low sec is its almost impossible to tell between friend and foe before its to late, in 0.0 thats not the case at all, 0.0 is safer for that reason only.. plus you deal with fewer ganker tards in 0.0 since its not nearly as easy to bottom feed. The risk will always be to big because even if you had group missions its still stupidly easy for a single pirate to kill in a pvp fit to kill a group set up for npcs, especially when the group is prolly fighting stuff already. Low sec piracy is just way to easy for the pirates and way to expensive for any possible mission runners if pirates come looking.
Xaildaine	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:05:00 - [26] The problem with lowsec isnt the rewards.. The rewards of lowsec are inline with highsec and 0.0.. as in .. kinda in the middle. The probem is the risk. The problem with lowsec is that it is infact NOsec. You wont get people moving to lowsec by nerfing highsec .. they will more likely stay put or just quit. if You want get people moving into lowsec you need to add some secuity. Make the Pirates have to work to avoid the law. Push the Gankbears out to 0.0 or 0.1 where they belong and leave pirateing 0.4 to only the best of the best pirates. As it is at them moment one poorly skilld group of pirates can shut a group of systems down for mining and missioning with almost no risk to themselves and with no repercusions of any real meaning. Just look what happend to miners in lowsec.. they got ganked back into highsec. no amount of being carfull or having friends made them able to ply their trade in lowsec. No way was mining lowsec going to make loosing their covetor + fittings every night worth the risk. And no improovement of ore type is going to make that the case. Its time for concord to start makeing random visits to 0.4
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Ihar Enda Ok, so even more people (mission runners) are leaving low sec due to how easy it is to scan for a ship now. 0.0 was, and still is safer than low sec, if you know what you are doing. Proposed changes: [yada yada crap] People aren't sitting in empire because the missions and rats are so bad in lowsec, they are sitting there because they're not interested in PVP. If you want some targets, go to 0.0 and find PVPers. But I guess you're just one of those cowardly lowsec pirates who prefer ganking 5 day old chars to real fighting.
Samurai1	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:07:00 - [28] Originally by: zevex I think that one of the thing that commonly gets forgotten here is that CCP wants low sec to be a little undesireable because they want 0.0 to be more populated. I hate pirates that consistantly haunt low sec, don't get me wrong, I'll pop a carebear here and there if I see an easy target while I am passing thru a 0.4 system, but I spend 95% of my time in 0.0. IMHO the players that do nothing but prey on the weak in low sec and call themselves pirates (i.e. professional grievers) are nothing but cowards that lack the testicular fortitude to venture out to 0.0 to play with the big dogs. Zevex you sir are a nub. You admit that you pop an easy target if it was offered to you in low sec but you think anyone that does it long term are griefers? Do you even know the meaning of the word! And why does every pirate have to prove himself by going down to 0.0, do you know how many jumps that would mean heading back to jita!?! Problem with low sec is probing and warp core stabs. You nerf probing and many newbie players will be limited in the new mini professions. You buff wcs and you give mission runners/belt ratters a false sense of security and make gangs require more than 1pt to lock down a target.
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:09:00 - [29] I've said it before and I'll say it again: IMO the best way to get more people in lowsec is to offer stuff there that you can't get in highsec or 0.0, and stuff which is important enough and persistent enough to make people settle down there in order to make use of it. Currently it's pretty much the worst of both worlds in most respects.
Levin Milraco	Posted - 2006.12.03 00:13:00 - [30] a trend that I noticed in these threads are: -alot of them claims to be experience pvpers.. yet, none of them goes wardec big alliances where there is an actual fight. -they claim that moving lvl 4 will get people into low sec. They dont understand that if lvl 4s are moved to low sec, the people will just do lvl 3s instead,..(this is something alot of them cant get though their heads, that alot of people dont want to play with them when they are not good and ready.) -they say bring buddies and use pvp set up for missions: have they EVER tried doing lvl 4 missions in a pvp set up? it takes much much longer. and have they seen the reward when its split with buddies? is so ** poor is not worth doing. -they occassionally insult people who dont agree with them and tell them to: learn to play or go to WoW, go kill yourself. Which usually means they cant come up with a good-well-thought-out argument =P ------------- but yeah, to the OP, moving lvl 4 wont work man, it will just end up **ing off alot of people. that feels cheated. after all, who likes to be fed on a skewer to hungry, smacktalking leet lions? (joke) would probley get more people to cancel on the extreme spectrum (yay?... for less lag?..) since it sents out the message that, unless you likes to attack and violate other people, you are paying for a game just t be violated. okay, analogy: how would you like it if the government says: your job is too bland and boring, we are cutting your pay.. and in order to make as much as you have to keep your lifestyle, you have to work at a brothel where chances are, you will be sodomized 5x a day in that job. AND theres a good chance of having your pay robbed from you, leaving you hungry, go home, and feeling like crap....how would you like that? now... if its a different scenario: such as the government tells you that there is a bigger, better paying job out there, but you might have to work in dangerous conditions and might be robbed of the day's pay... however, if you dont like it. you can always stay at your current job with the current pay... how do you like that?... most of you wouldnt probley dont mind the 2nd scenario. since it doesnt muck up what you have already, and give you a CHOICE.... hence, it is best to add something new... (like the combat drugs CCP just added to 0.0 and low sec via exploration) lvl 5 missions in low sec 0.0 sounds good to me...but make it hard though, and that the rat target anyone that warps in... lol so they shoot at the mission runner and pirate who can probe them out in 2 minutes equally. =P

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