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[Announcement] Mordus Angels sets ISS to KOS

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Dresden Karno Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.12.03 03:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Dresden Karno on 03/12/2006 03:15:57 As a mercenary alliance aligned with the Mordu's Legion, there is generally no need to declare hostilities on any alliance or corporation, but as ISS is a "neutral" entity it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility of any "misunderstanding". Excerpts from a convo with an ISS diplomat: Dresden Karno > While kill boards may prove who destroyed whom first, it is common knowledge that not all of ISS members have had neutral intentions, and have provided ship intel and locations to hostile corporations and alliances. Dresden Karno > The general feeling is that ISS has been given a free ride into many 0.0 areas due to their intentions to "civilize" space, but by no means have they held any or sufficient accountability for their recruitment policies. While this is understandable due to the need to grow, it does not excuse the losses incurred from such practices. ISS diplomat > these are all corps we are in the process of "weeding out" Dresden Karno > The sheer man power and resources to investigate every case must be staggering..and then the process of removing them ISS diplomat > the big problem is one [edited] can make life very hard for the rest of us ISS diplomat > we are in effect a no win situation as we have corps north & south and whilst I try to secure working relationships in the north other things happen in the south to undermine it. While the Mordus Angels can sympathize with the ISS plight it by no means excuses or compensates for losses incurred nor to the danger ISS pilots have presented to MOA pilots and allies. As part time residents of Pure Blind, the Mordus Angels is taking a stand against their "free ride". Dresden Karno > Perhaps when all is said and done, ISS will be that much stronger for it. ISS diplomat > I would like to hope we could discuss the issues after another month. ISS diplomat > Im comfortable with genuine reasons for standings changes, our changes are merely to safe guard inocent pilots Dresden Karno > I know, as is ours. Thank you for your time, and fly safe. ISS diplomat > thanks dres Simply stated, if these standings changes don't reflect the severity of the consequences of lackadaisical recruitment policies, then we don't know what will. While it may dip into profits or take more time, more stringent recruitment policies on every level from corporation to individual pilot is necessary. The freedom to roam around freely in 0.0 is a privilege not a right. Dresden Karno Mordus Angels Diplomat edited for spelling
Feterous Jolin Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.03 03:14:00 - [2] yarr and stuff
marcouk2 Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.03 03:50:00 - [3] Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose.
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.03 05:17:00 - [4] interesting...
Anarchist Domain	Posted - 2006.12.03 13:12:00 - [5] lol "Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose." You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. I see a load of bored pirates and you're going after an alliance who open up low sec to neutrals (who you also shoot). Make up your excuses and conjur your own ideas up as to why you need to target this alliance, but we all know you're just targetting a non-pvp alliance.
marcouk2 Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:17:00 - [6] Edited by: marcouk2 on 03/12/2006 14:16:47 Originally by: Anarchist Domain lol "Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose." You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. I see a load of bored pirates and you're going after an alliance who open up low sec to neutrals (who you also shoot). Make up your excuses and conjur your own ideas up as to why you need to target this alliance, but we all know you're just targetting a non-pvp alliance. And the 100+ man fleet last night was all composed of industrials and barges then heh?
Leffe MC Cubed Inc Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:49:00 - [7] Originally by: marcouk2 Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose. Please enlighten us. What are the dangers that ISS pose to the rest of the 0.0 community. I really would like to know.
Muad' Dib terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 03/12/2006 15:02:45 Originally by: marcouk2 Edited by: marcouk2 on 03/12/2006 14:16:47 Originally by: Anarchist Domain lol "Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose." You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. I see a load of bored pirates and you're going after an alliance who open up low sec to neutrals (who you also shoot). Make up your excuses and conjur your own ideas up as to why you need to target this alliance, but we all know you're just targetting a non-pvp alliance. And the 100+ man fleet last night was all composed of industrials and barges then heh? Ohh please, you've been hanging around P-2TTL for 2-3 days. The fact that you haven't heard that Triumvirate knocked an ISS pos into reinforced strikes me as odd; not sure what do you expect ISS to do ... wait for the POS to die ? Or maybe ISS could gather some forces to defend said POS ... gee that's a tough one.
marcouk2 Gallente Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.03 15:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 03/12/2006 15:02:45 Originally by: marcouk2 Edited by: marcouk2 on 03/12/2006 14:16:47 Originally by: Anarchist Domain lol "Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose." You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. I see a load of bored pirates and you're going after an alliance who open up low sec to neutrals (who you also shoot). Make up your excuses and conjur your own ideas up as to why you need to target this alliance, but we all know you're just targetting a non-pvp alliance. And the 100+ man fleet last night was all composed of industrials and barges then heh? Ohh please, you've been hanging around P-2TTL for 2-3 days. The fact that you haven't heard that Triumvirate knocked an ISS pos into reinforced strikes me as odd; not sure what do you expect ISS to do ... wait for the POS to die ? Or maybe ISS could gather some forces to defend said POS ... gee that's a tough one. Exactly. so you're a viable pvp force. You just need some balls, high point of last night was 100 odd iss and 3 iron guys in ec and we still held the Torr gate.
Muad' Dib terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 15:31:00 - [10] That's a laugh. You are trying to justify "we attack you" with "you will fight back so that's why we attack you", while I'm saying you're a hypocrit, for stating facts as you need them to justify you're actions, but not telling the whole truth. Yes, ISS will try and defend they're POS's if they are attacked, just like any other alliance, they will try and defend themselves. But ISS is not a PVP alliance, ISS is a mostly neutral entity. This however seems to "** off" most of the IRON guys I've met so far, in so far as I've ed off 3 IRON guys with Brutix + Deimos + Eagle camping Borealis yesterday. How did I dare warp to 0 and dock when i could have attacked all 3 of them in my Thorax. How dare i pick up my fights when i could just as easily just lay down. As I'm writing this, there is a IRON Curse 15km behind Borealis who is probably **ed for me warping to 0 and docking instead of just laying there and getting killed. How dare I !!!

Muad' Dib terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 15:39:00 - [11] The best piece of evidence that ISS is not a PVP alliance is the IRON killboards probably. How many ships have we lost and how many have you lost ?
Spoony Brook terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 15:48:00 - [12] Originally by: marcouk2 Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 03/12/2006 15:02:45 Originally by: marcouk2 Edited by: marcouk2 on 03/12/2006 14:16:47 Originally by: Anarchist Domain lol "Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose." You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. I see a load of bored pirates and you're going after an alliance who open up low sec to neutrals (who you also shoot). Make up your excuses and conjur your own ideas up as to why you need to target this alliance, but we all know you're just targetting a non-pvp alliance. And the 100+ man fleet last night was all composed of industrials and barges then heh? Ohh please, you've been hanging around P-2TTL for 2-3 days. The fact that you haven't heard that Triumvirate knocked an ISS pos into reinforced strikes me as odd; not sure what do you expect ISS to do ... wait for the POS to die ? Or maybe ISS could gather some forces to defend said POS ... gee that's a tough one. Exactly. so you're a viable pvp force. You just need some balls, high point of last night was 100 odd iss and 3 iron guys in ec and we still held the Torr gate. gathering people to protect a pos does not automaticaly make the allaince a viable pvp force, the only people in ISS you can consider that are the Navy, and you know as well as i do that ISS isn't a threat to anyone, your just looking for cheap excuses to those hauler ganks .
Mortuus Minmatar Just-fun Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:14:00 - [13] I would agree that the ISS is a threat, not through direct PvP force, but for their lack of screening and accountability for the actions of their pilots behind the scenes. You are a threat in the same was as any noob alt sitting off a gate IDing your ships, or a neutral flying around in your space gathering intel. In other words, while the goals of ISS might be noble, and even the players in control trustworthy, there is no way every one of you can be trusted to not pass along information or aid the enemy in other ways. Good luck Mordus Angels, hell...even good luck IRON... ex-Occassus Republica <3
Sgt Napalm ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:17:00 - [14] /signed
Dresden Karno Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:31:00 - [15] At this moment, I'm going to speak for myself and not for my alliance. Spoony and Maud' Dib, your indignation though while passionate as most Galnet posts, it is also unnecessary and ridiculous. Your ignorance of your own alliance further supports my point, and your "spin" on the situation whether intentional or not, doesn't detract from the failure of ISS to take responsibilty for it's actions. Leffe, to address your polite inquiry, ISS is a large organization that is currently unable to take into account the actions of all of it's members. Stated by one of your own members, "certain individuals can make life hard for the rest of [you]". These individuals become members of ISS since it allows them to be the proverbial "fly on the wall". In addition to declaring friendly relations in their bio with hostile alliances (that love to gank haulers!), this poses as a direct threat to the well being of our pilots. Though in the defense of ISS, I know this problem is being worked on and people and corporations are being "weeded out". Now this bring us to the matter at hand. What do you think it would take for an alliance of 1865 members to investigate it's own members, change it's recruitment policies, and make restitution for losses incurred due to their pilots? I know, nothing. There would be the loss of revenue by diverting resources to investigation, the ISK loss would be staggering if they were to make restitution, and a change in policy might mean more work and resources lost. I know ISS is trying to change all of that, I don't know of any corporation or alliance that is willing to concede that. But what I want to know is, "how much are they wanting to change"? We have much more important people to be shooting, but this is a matter that needs to be attended to on our home turf. We're not actively looking for ISS, but they are certainly not welcome in Pure Blind anymore. At least not until some major changes have been made. The question is, does ISS even really care and will it just be "back to business as usual"? Leffe, I don't recall if MC Cubed was part of ISS last year, but if it was, you know what I'm talking about.
Sgt Napalm ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:31:00 - [16] Originally by: marcouk2 Exactly. so you're a viable pvp force. You just need some balls, high point of last night was 100 odd iss and 3 iron guys in ec and we still held the Torr gate. Perhaps we had a different objective than to secure the gate. Securing the gate would have been very 'un-neutral' of us as it would have been unfair to those camping it. Don't you agree?
Dresden Karno Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Sgt Napalm Originally by: marcouk2 Exactly. so you're a viable pvp force. You just need some balls, high point of last night was 100 odd iss and 3 iron guys in ec and we still held the Torr gate. Perhaps we had a different objective than to secure the gate. Securing the gate would have been very 'un-neutral' of us as it would have been unfair to those camping it. Don't you agree? Strangely enough, I'd agree.
Horatio Nately Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.12.03 19:57:00 - [18] Edited by: Horatio Nately on 03/12/2006 20:00:01 Originally by: Anarchist Domain You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. You're half right. About going to fight a proper PvP alliance. ISS is NOT neutral. they waive the neutral flag when it suits them, and they shoot targets of oppertuity in their OMG WE ARE LEET PVPERS blob. Further this fact that ISS has very little accountability over its members, even though they cut loose quite a bit of their fat. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Marcus TheMartin never ransom haulers though since they are eve's pinatas My opinions do not represent my corp/alliance
Muad' Dib terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 21:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Dresden Karno At this moment, I'm going to speak for myself and not for my alliance. Spoony and Maud' Dib, your indignation though while passionate as most Galnet posts, it is also unnecessary and ridiculous. Your ignorance of your own alliance further supports my point, and your "spin" on the situation whether intentional or not, doesn't detract from the failure of ISS to take responsibilty for it's actions. There was some indignation - maybe you misunderstood the message, but it was certainly not adressed to you. The operation in question of which I am aware as I took part in it was to guard a POS coming out of reinforced mode, who got attacked by 6 Triumvirate Dreads. This however seems to mean for some that ISS is a big bad PVP alliance. ISS is far from a PVP alliance. I admit I am ignorant of my alliance. I joined this corp 6 days ago, just another corp in the many that form ISS. I don't know what decisions are taken at the highest level, I am ignorant in that part just like any other new member of an alliance. What I am not ignorant about is the characters present in Pure Blind and are part of ISS and those that i see in my own corp. They are not PVP centered players, in fact far from it. It's simple ... someone attacked a POS, and some of the alliance tried to defend it as best possible when it came out of reinforced mode. I heard from friends that there was a "purging of the ranks" and many corps and players got kicked out. Don't know the reasons for this, when that happened i was not part of ISS. PS: The opinions about alliances/players expressed in this post are my own and not my alliances.
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Horatio Nately Edited by: Horatio Nately on 03/12/2006 20:00:01 Originally by: Anarchist Domain You're all just targetting a god damn neutral alliance and the easiest targets. Go fight a proper PVP alliance lol. You're half right. About going to fight a proper PvP alliance. ISS is NOT neutral. they waive the neutral flag when it suits them, and they shoot targets of oppertuity in their OMG WE ARE LEET PVPERS blob. Further this fact that ISS has very little accountability over its members, even though they cut loose quite a bit of their fat. Please could everyone read the new ISS charter, which specifically tightens up accountability. In fact all of the complaints here are covered there. If you have a problem with ISS please immediately contact our management team, who will quickly investigate the problem and deal firmly with it.

n sx The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:37:00 - [21] Edited by: n sx on 04/12/2006 08:40:06 Originally by: Leffe Originally by: marcouk2 Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose. Please enlighten us. What are the dangers that ISS pose to the rest of the 0.0 community. I really would like to know. You're either completely new to ISS or are truly blind. IAC, as freespace advocates, much like yourselves pride ourselves and generally treasure neutrals and nearby friends operating from our infrastructure. Ultimatey its good business. The simple requirement to operate in IAC space is to refrain from being hostile towards IAC and preferably assisting us with defences of the area. Consistent offenders of IAC policy are actively hunted and station facilities removed. In that respect, additional to the fact we actively police our space technically makes it more beneficial to neutrals than ISS could even claim to be. The point that has been brought up in this thread is COMPLETELY true. In the 12 months IAC and ISS have been neighbours, the 'little' backstabs are near impossible to count, and the MONUMENTAL ones seem to happen every 6 months. We have merely turned a blind eye in the interest of keeping the peace. Your claims of absolute neutrality as you like to use when you choose in affect can facilitate the destruction of long time allies. How would you feel, if an alliance with 25+ dreads used IAC stations to siege you, one jump from two of your own and we simply allowed them to do it? Oh, add to the fact the CEO of IAC would be sitting at one of your POS' being sieged, in a pod watching. Tell me what that tastes like? .... if you can't imagine, please just ask. I'm not blatently accusing you all of being underhanded, I know for a fact some of you despise some of the backstabbing and intel sharing and know that others have left ISS because of it. There will always be those that ruin it for others, but ISS needs to take A side, and stick by it. Your consistent claim of neutrality will in the end be your destruction and this fact is becoming obvious as more and more corps and alliances turn on you. You cannot 'stay out' of the battles you choose and then fight in others without causing some kind of ripples in someone elses pond. It's not the front line policy and charter of ISS that's dangerous to fellow 0.0 inhabitants, it's the dealings that occur in the background that you're unable to police and the protection that your public policy allows. Add to that the added protection of public investors in your outposts and you've got even more of a cushion.
mrevilbe arrrrrg corp	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:06:00 - [22] Edited by: mrevilbe on 04/12/2006 11:22:29 besides the fact that i doubt MC told iss they were gonna attack iac, iss has a new charter ....in it it says - If an entity is kill-on-sight (KOS) to ISS it may be denied docking. An entity may become KOS if it repeatedly attacks ISS ships. - ISS allow pirates and fleets to dock but will respond to concerns of neighbours on docking rights. -- If an entity uses the outpost as a staging area to wage war, they may have their docking rights removed for the duration of the war. so there shouldn't be problems like that anymore personally i think they should just abandon the ec outpost...its not like it actually makes any money
Camilo Cienfuegos	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:57:00 - [23] Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 04/12/2006 14:11:53 Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 04/12/2006 14:04:58 Quote: I would agree that the ISS is a threat, not through direct PvP force, but for their lack of screening and accountability for the actions of their pilots behind the scenes. [They] are a threat in the same was as any noob alt sitting off a gate IDing your ships, or a neutral flying around in your space gathering intel. Whilst your comment about the lack of screening is wholly valid, the rest is not - I have long argued against the need for NBSI in 0.0, and the ISS operates under NRDS; this means that unless you have acted against the ISS, you will always be free to come and go as you please without fear. It is wholly preferable to the wholesale slaughter that is life in the average territorial alliance. The question that has been asked here is simple: should a civilian entity be held liable for the actions of it's members, when aforementioned actions are in breech of the entity's own terms which will result in the ejection of said members? No - Such fallacious arguments should not be sustained. A suitable analogy would be the annihilation of the UN for the actions of US soldiers in Iraqi prisons! The plain and simple truth is that from what I have read, I'm sorry to say that our friends in MOA have chosen to punish the innocent majority for the crimes of the few - These are sad days again for the north. Quote: Good to see that other entities have come to realise the dangers that ISS truely pose. From a logistical point of view, the threat of the ISS is minimal - not since the last Deklein conflict have the ISS been "used" as a staging point to mount an invasion. The only real danger is from subterfuge, and it's an argument of principles and morality! Quote: There will always be those that ruin it for others, but ISS needs to take A side, and stick by it. In many ways, I agree. Part of the problem is that the ISS have spread themselves far and wide, and so cannot reasonably "take sides" in any regional conflict - they can only defend their own. Perhaps this will merely show my naivety; To my mind, the goal of the ISS is to show the territorial alliances that there is a better way to operate in 0.0, and it can be done in harmony. It should not be the duty of the ISS to quell the conflicts that arise as a result of territorial disputes, but the responsibility of said alliances to use the ISS as an olive branch to prevent them. The bare truth of course is that inevitably an alliance will reach a point where they show "too much blue"; any target will do...
Sgt Napalm ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:15:00 - [24] Originally by: n sx Edited by: n sx on 04/12/2006 08:40:06 Originally by: Leffe Originally by: marcouk2 How would you feel, if an alliance with 25+ dreads used IAC stations to siege you, one jump from two of your own and we simply allowed them to do it? Oh, add to the fact the CEO of IAC would be sitting at one of your POS' being sieged, in a pod watching. Tell me what that tastes like? .... if you can't imagine, please just ask. If we attempt to help said 'Allies' it would be 'un-neutral' of us as we are taking a stance.
Backalley Anna Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:35:00 - [25] "The freedom to roam around freely in 0.0 is a privilege not a right." Hmm...There are those who would dispute that claim. "Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done." R.A. Heinlein
Mortuus Minmatar Just-fun Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:48:00 - [26] There are, but there are those that also fail to see that life in eve is a privelege, not a right. One we like to test people on to see if they are worthy. So far, most are not, and sometimes my gang members are not. You know who has the privilege to live, by them living. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.04 18:43:00 - [27] Originally by: marcouk2 Exactly. so you're a viable pvp force. You just need some balls, high point of last night was 100 odd iss and 3 iron guys in ec and we still held the Torr gate. hehe iss, balls, same sentence? Only if you're talking about the lack of Yah iss is terrible at pvp, their gang leaders have the balls of a unic. They wouldn't jump a 40 man fleet into Litom cause we had 4 bs on the gate. ISS is an absolute joke, and the reason people attack you guys is because your***y s who can't back their up Manlove by Zaphod Jones**
Jimmy Doe Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.12.04 19:34:00 - [28] Edited by: Jimmy Doe on 04/12/2006 19:36:26 the simple fact of the matter is that we had ISS set to +10 standings with our aliance for the purposes of keeping them from being mistaken as targets. iss was to remain neutral. On many, many occasions ISS gangs in EC-P8R and 5ZXX-K have attacked our members without remorse. We run a very tight-knit unit on our side and when a target is declared to be friendly or neutral, orders are followed. we have lost a great many ships to ISS because our pilots see them as blue and ISS opens up on them. Our policy is however that if you shoot us we will return fire and punish you. I personally have been involved in many incidents where iss engaged us with no provocation and we soundly chased the gang members down and beat them. we didnt attack haulers jumping in and out, we didnt pop shuttles coming in and out, we just attacked the hostile entities. We have been trying for many many months to resolve these issues with ISS diplomatically but unfortunately ISS does not wish to do this, we only found out recently that ISS had set us to -10 because of some past transgressions that they themselves started. as ISS even says "we defend our own" well thats what we are doing. Until ISS learns to control their pilots and is willing to lay the back stabbing to rest, they will be targets and thus hunted and killed like any other. You look at me and you laugh at the noob, but look at your wallet and see that insurance the SCC just paid you for your loss
Sgt Napalm ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 19:51:00 - [29] Our killboard says otherwise. (Hint: It might be the company you keep)
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:23:00 - [30] Originally by: n sx Originally by: Sgt Napalm If we attempt to help said 'Allies' it would be 'un-neutral' of us as we are taking a stance. Well, if said 'allies' have co-existed with you, for 10 months, helping your defend your assets maintain the peace and increase business in the area it might have been in your interest to maintain that relationship rather than face the unknown of a hostile neighbour? Maybe you knew who your new neighbour was going to be? I think you've pulled that trick before flying to aid Ushra Kahn's systems in the interest of keeping friendly neighbours? Either way, your answer STINKS of ISS' selective use of foriegn policy and you said exactly what I have claimed as your major downfall. I suppose denying MC access to ISS outposts would interfere with the defense retainer that you have set in place. Let us also ignore the buyout of most of IAC's combat modules by ISS in our outposts, ISS restocking the market in the stations which MC operated from and also the confirmed intel sharing between ISS and those contracted against us at the time. Sgt Napalm, I am afraid your alliance chose a side - it just wasn't ours. That's why i keep telling you guys to shoot them! Manlove by Zaphod Jones



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