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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:57:00 - [271] Originally by: Nahia Senne Originally by: Miss Overlord MC works on a ISK destoryed versus ISK lost system - better in guaging affectiveness for clients etc this is very vauge because if you use material cost of the items, you dont really gauge anything. killing 100 cruisers while losing 17 hac's, you killed about 700 mio market value while you lost about 4 billion market value. That's right so we try and use a value that is more reflective of the 'real' costs, hence you will see the 2 hacs RA killed have a value attached of 360mil. Of course it's early days and markets change but you get an idea of what's happening in damage inflicted and lost which is often enough.
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:10:00 - [272] Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: Nahia Senne Originally by: Miss Overlord MC works on a ISK destoryed versus ISK lost system - better in guaging affectiveness for clients etc this is very vauge because if you use material cost of the items, you dont really gauge anything. killing 100 cruisers while losing 17 hac's, you killed about 700 mio market value while you lost about 4 billion market value. That's right so we try and use a value that is more reflective of the 'real' costs, hence you will see the 2 hacs RA killed have a value attached of 360mil. Of course it's early days and markets change but you get an idea of what's happening in damage inflicted and lost which is often enough. Hi Hans! OK, with that out of the way.. That has always been my problem with "ISK damage" on killboards. It's not really a good indicator of wether you are doing better than someone else. If someone kills a tech 1 fitted BS, and I kill a faction fitted Vagabond, the guy with the BS kill gets more points. I find that ridiculous to say the least. Hans how does MC change the ISK value of your KB's? I am assuming its in the programming of the code? If so I think its a great idea. But I think also that some corps/alliances would screw around with the isk value of things to make it look good when in actuality it wouldn't be. Any thoughts?
Major Tarsis Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:26:00 - [273] Originally by: Alwan The same as We( KOS ) were your buffers?! I think you find KOS were a equal member of the Coalition however your 'leader' decided that only himself would be allowed to speak to the coalition which made talking to the KOS FCs quite difficult. And I think if you ask them I made the effort to try to get this resolved but I both myself and the KOS FCs were hampered by your 'leader' and his unwillingness to allow KOS FCs into any of the command channels. This meant that the normal KOS FCs were kept in the dark about ALOT of the coalition activities purely by the actions of your 'leader'. If you felt you were the coalition 'meatshield' then look to your 'leader' for the real reason for this. No further comment on this is needed. Ask your FCs for clarification or Evemail me if you want ask further questions/comment on this. Back on topic. Welcome to the firefight MC. Does that mean we get to fly with Max again for a little while? MT My comments are purely in character and should not be considered a personal attack especially if taken out of context. - awaiting mods reply via email.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:28:00 - [274] While I've not been involved in the coding of the board, I can answer a few things. First of all, it's a spin-off of rig0r's old KB that the EVE Dev guys have done quite a bit of work on. It's constantly evolving with new features that we're slowly adapting to our needs. Originally by: Buxaroo That has always been my problem with "ISK damage" on killboards. It's not really a good indicator of wether you are doing better than someone else. If someone kills a tech 1 fitted BS, and I kill a faction fitted Vagabond, the guy with the BS kill gets more points. I find that ridiculous to say the least. I actually liked the BoB killboard for it's ability to take one glance and know what was going on. However, we've been waiting on v2.0 for a long time now and the programmer has a hard time getting it finished. Kill boards are actually a hell of a lot of work to code from scratch apparently. So, until / if v 2.0 comes out, we're going to go with something we can modify ourselves. In terms of value, the BoB boards use the simple insurance payout value. That works pretty good IMO, but the points system needed some work. That's one thing I like about the new one. Quote: Hans how does MC change the ISK value of your KB's? I am assuming its in the programming of the code? If so I think its a great idea. But I think also that some corps/alliances would screw around with the isk value of things to make it look good when in actuality it wouldn't be. Any thoughts? Adjusting the value of any ship or item on the new KB can be done at any time by an admin. From the cost of an Aeon down to Spike S ammo. I'm unclear as to if the ISK value of a kill is 'locked' at the time it is posted or if any change to the values retroactively adjust every kill ever made tho. It's something we're still looking at. For example - killing a Cerb a year and a half ago was maybe worth 60-80m. Now it's three times that. For us to post up our old contracts reflecting damage inflicted using today's isk costs would be misleading. We've also tried to look at giving clients other options such as 'tonnage destroyed'. Of all the things out there, the basic weight of metal destroyed cannot be debated. As I said before, this 'new' KB is very must still in development and we'll keep updating it as time goes on. When it's final (with all old contracts posted), I'm sure we'll let people know. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:31:00 - [275] Originally by: EElak Damn, a new killboard. I was hoping to be on the top 10 for atleast one more year... Kills are being moved across, your ego may remain intact
Psan Vigilante Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:42:00 - [276] Welcome to the pants party MC! Max: You better come fly a few ops with us! - San
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:50:00 - [277] Must be tough doing the tourney and contracts....
Frederick Skinner BlueMen Inc	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:08:00 - [278] Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: Manfred Sideous GLA... RA and GOONS Pucker up sounds like a lesson is about to be served Oh you must have forgot what happened the last time MC declared on Goonfleet back in the beginning of the year. I still remember Seleene commenting how they'd make the miners cry. I always chuckled at that one. What's the record on cap ships killed now? ____________________ BMI sells space fuzzy dice
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:26:00 - [279] Originally by: Frederick Skinner Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: Manfred Sideous GLA... RA and GOONS Pucker up sounds like a lesson is about to be served Oh you must have forgot what happened the last time MC declared on Goonfleet back in the beginning of the year. I still remember Seleene commenting how they'd make the miners cry. I always chuckled at that one. What's the record on cap ships killed now? Okay, I'll bite - Huh? - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Buxaroo Black Dwarf Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:42:00 - [280] Thanks for the info Seleene. And that was actually going to be my next question about adjusting the prices of ships/mods/ammo is if it would be dynamic and effect older killmails as well. Maybe something in the code that can go by date possibly? Now that I think about it, we could go on forever in figuring out ways to adjust stats etc on killboards. I think I will stop at the above idea and leave it at that

Kyguard Fire Mandrill Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:42:00 - [281] Originally by: k1Lz LV coming for a fight tonight , results: 17 bs loss for LV 1 for TCF killboard WOW nice fight, how good u are maybe RA will let u lead a squadron of haulers next time or better u will gain there respect and let u be the drones for capitals. You guys donÆt get it, TCF is here just because RAGOONS need a buffer zone not because they really need u`r help, still GF. Sorry, just because you used ERA, UCC or w/e, KOS and V as meatshields doesn't mean everyone uses their allies like that. Nice try though. === It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm) [Insert badass sig to match ego here]
Larsson7 Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:46:00 - [282] Originally by: Seleene Originally by: Frederick Skinner Originally by: Tetsujin Originally by: Manfred Sideous GLA... RA and GOONS Pucker up sounds like a lesson is about to be served Oh you must have forgot what happened the last time MC declared on Goonfleet back in the beginning of the year. I still remember Seleene commenting how they'd make the miners cry. I always chuckled at that one. What's the record on cap ships killed now? Okay, I'll bite - Huh? NSN had a solo contract vs Goons at beginning of year. As S-U and its surrounding area was so target rich - several other MC member corps had people go down for some shooty fun. The rest of MC were off contract at that time. What Cap Ships has to do with it - well thats anyones guess, tbh
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:50:00 - [283] Originally by: Zeoliter Oh no. Not more "you drop crap loot" smack. Has to be the lowest form of banter in eve. Yes, tres joli, mon ami. You might want to read what your alliance m8s were saying about ratcfgoon in the earlier pages.. === It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm) [Insert badass sig to match ego here]
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:51:00 - [284] cough We had a contract on them back in August time Lars were you afk or something? Although with that contract there wasn't much difference as it was difficult to find any of them due to the fact they had like 8 wars or something .
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:55:00 - [285] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/12/2006 14:55:45 Originally by: Nahia Senne Originally by: Miss Overlord MC works on a ISK destoryed versus ISK lost system - better in guaging affectiveness for clients etc this is very vauge because if you use material cost of the items, you dont really gauge anything. killing 100 cruisers while losing 17 hac's, you killed about 700 mio market value while you lost about 4 billion market value. The MC killboard appears to count HACs as 120 million each or more, so I doubt that is true any longer. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Kalek Astroth Amarr The Electrocuted	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:18:00 - [286] 17 vs 2 ratio isnt nice , but before commenting any battle outcome you must know the real size of fleets on battlefield... i belive vs Mc you guys can hope in a 2 vs 17 kill loss ratio
Larsson7 Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:19:00 - [287] Originally by: Traxio Nacho cough We had a contract on them back in August time Lars were you afk or something? Although with that contract there wasn't much difference as it was difficult to find any of them due to the fact they had like 8 wars or something . Yeah. I remember the "Goons dec the entire Universe" time and finding them was pretty darn tough. I think we got a ton of shuttles in that contract
Therem Harth DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:07:00 - [288] Is there a reason Maelstrom contract is still not reported on MC killboard, in the Contracts section? --
Eleese Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:32:00 - [289] Originally by: Therem Harth Is there a reason Maelstrom contract is still not reported on MC killboard, in the Contracts section? Old stuff hasn't been transfered over to the new killboard yet.
Wladomir Jed Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:38:00 - [290] Edited by: Wladomir Jed on 06/12/2006 17:39:03 actually there aint no maelstrom or bruce in the contract part. Guess you have to ask Seleene if there are a reason or if she is just lazy EDIT: on the old KB that is

Dracolich North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:09:00 - [291] Damn... Thats alot of targets, if it will include IAC(even without). GL MC on your 3rd go at GS. Hope all sides have fun, I know MC will... 150 vs xxxx(dont care to count) that sounds pretty much. My hellos goes also to RA, coz I respect them. Dracolich once again flies off to flowerpicking warcraft land.
Crovan Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:31:00 - [292] Originally by: Dracolich Damn... Thats alot of targets, if it will include IAC(even without). GL MC on your 3rd go at GS. Hope all sides have fun, I know MC will... 150 vs xxxx(dont care to count) that sounds pretty much. My hellos goes also to RA, coz I respect them. Dracolich once again flies off to flowerpicking warcraft land. I renew my plea for our commies to come back... Originally by: Seleene Client - "You smash them." MC - "Ooooh! Good! Like to smash!"
Khayman33 Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:36:00 - [293] Originally by: k1Lz LV coming for a fight tonight , results: 17 bs loss for LV 1 for TCF killboard WOW nice fight, how good u are maybe RA will let u lead a squadron of haulers next time or better u will gain there respect and let u be the drones for capitals. You guys donÆt get it, TCF is here just because RAGOONS need a buffer zone not because they really need u`r help, still GF. Don't be so nervous mate :)or you will be likely to make a cardiac attack. We always need cannon fodder. This is only the begining .
Latex Mistress Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:59:00 - [294] I think the "market value" argument is bunk tbh. It's not just the variable rate of the market (HAC's tripling in cost), but it's what gets bought vs built. Ok, so during Contract X, we killed Y amount of Hac's and Z amount of our HAC's were destroyed as well. The MC built 90% of the HAC's lost and we have no idea how many HAC's killed on the opposing side were built by that entity. How do you calculate that? What's more: how do you put that into a database and automate it? You can't. It's unreasonable to even think it. Therefore, you go with the only thing that's constant: what it took to build them. But wait! Even that isn't accurate, because what if I mined the minerals or bought them? What if I killed a hauler spawn and got most of the mins for free! What if I have a slave corp that feeds me minerals for the privilege of living in my space? What does it cost to build then? All these things affect the build cost and there's no real way to track any of it. Ok, so we can't use "market value" or "build cost" as an accurate measurement... what then? As Sel said, tonnage works, but who wants to see that as a metric by which you conclude success? There's no silver bullet to solve the problem, but we're doing the best we can. LM Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:25:00 - [295] Personally if this isn't a distraction I think MC is biting more then they can chew... Anywhere they fly down here they are targets of RA/Goons, TCF, IAC, and I assume Maelstrom....it will be interesting...of course you'll have LV and what's left of V on your side....with all the contracts going on down here the south is definitely splitting into two sides as most have noticed...keeps it interesting....
Kaleeb Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 21:37:00 - [296] Originally by: Silvestri I think MC is biting more then they can chew... Anywhere they fly down here they are targets of RA/Goons, TCF, IAC, and I assume Maelstrom....i All these targets.. damn we will all be so upset
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:01:00 - [297] Originally by: Silvestri ... the south is definitely splitting into two sides as most have noticed I really think the "southern" thing is a bit of a misnomer, its really more like the entire east that's at war. (sorry off topic, just something I've been pondering)
ParMizaN Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:14:00 - [298] Originally by: Silvestri the south is definitely splitting into two sides as most have noticed... Perhaps thats the point of us being hired? Speculation keeps me entertained
Ikvar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:32:00 - [299] I have spent most of this contract waiting to jump through gates. Originally by: Rekindle I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
Shadow Ballet Artificial Horizons YouWhat	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:02:00 - [300] Hope you didnt do it waiting AT the gates



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