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My Thoughts on MC vs. IAC and the Tourney

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:40:00 - [151] Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 04/12/2006 23:40:10 Originally by: Murukan man we were having such a good discussion on welshmen going on here How about starting on the Scots and Irish? No/Yay? runs froms vels
Manus Ghostface Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:46:00 - [152] Forumaneurism ate my original post: Summary, great fight, class acts by all parties INVOLVED in the fight, some catty behaviour by some of the studio talking heads. Ignore He Who Badmouths All, and give us more pew pew zoom zoom action. That city is well fortified which has a wall of men instead of brick. - Lycurgus
Razor Jaxx Fate.	Posted - 2006.12.05 00:48:00 - [153] Nice writeup Sel. Without that so slight, yet so critical misstep (curse out of rep range), you'd come out winners, and everyone would be praising the armor-tanked raven strat, and hailing you as tactical geniuses. This tournament's rules & format call for innovative setups and out-of-the-box thinking, as some matches proved, and I find it quite unpleasant when the participants' genuine efforts at coming up with a successful strategy are being belittled by commentators if and when they - sometimes miserably - fail. An in-depth analysis of how or why it failed would certainly be more interesting. That is precisely why I enjoyed Sel's writeup, because it provided actual insight.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 02:11:00 - [154] Edited by: Nifel on 05/12/2006 02:12:37 Nice writeup and it was one of the more enjoyable matches we've seen so far. MC has put on a good show and the mach vs BE was really innovative thinking. Too bad the pilot overshot, but easily among the more interesting setups we've seen so far. As for EVETV I'd have to say I'm surprised spiralJunkie is in here. I thought his role was to be the host that knows how to talk. Not the PVP expert for which other people are brought in. Or am I wrong? And Ifni. MC publically stated before the tournament began (IIRC) that they were gonna put on a show. Given that don't you think calling them down for not going for the safe setups rhymes badly with their stated intent for this tournament? They've done exactly what they said they would do. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Orvas Dren Gallente The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.05 03:12:00 - [155] Thanks to this people are going to think I am ex-GHSC or something... wonderful... Wait... thats not so bad... GHSC were famous, I was anything but! Yay for cool by association! EVE-Mail me for custom signature work. Price Negotiable
Irimi Nage Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 03:57:00 - [156] Edited by: Irimi Nage on 05/12/2006 04:02:12 EDIT: Goddamn mother fracking forum ate my incredibly long and intelligent post. As I am therefore forced to summarise... 1) MC's tactics rock. Hire mercinaries for the unpredictable element they bring, not for cookie cutter fleets, that's what your own people are for. 2) Infi and spiral f'd up. You're both more boring on eve-tv than Sel's matches and his commentary more entertaining. Ifni should have just accepted that he made some dumb comments, left it alone and moved on. Apparently spiral has been suffering from ebola recently or something so I guess we can forgive his outburst. 3) Props to Farjung and the general crew for keeping it real. 4) Jamesw looks like a horse <3 ---
NTRabbit Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.05 04:45:00 - [157] Originally by: Murukan Originally by: Miss Mel why do people keep calling it the iac team? it's the guiding hand. they're all guiding hand, and just using iac for the contest everyone knows it only NTRabbit is ghsc, the rest of the team is iac. NTRabbit is there to steal the impapoc after the tourney Lies and Slander
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.05 06:06:00 - [158] If I were in a position to kill that impoc I wouldn't realy... I'd prolly stop and ask him to yield Good show on both sides
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.12.05 07:26:00 - [159] Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 05/12/2006 07:31:20 Originally by: Murukan only NTRabbit is ghsc, the rest of the team is iac. NTRabbit is there to steal the impapoc after the tourney Actually he's in it for the colonel's fried chicken recipie. Secret spices and all. That said, i'm a little disheartened to see quite this much hostility and smack in this thread. When I came across a mod's 'cleaned up' note I had a double-take, wondering what it must've looked like before the mop-job. Come on people, we're here to put on a good show and in many ways represent the face of our community to those who know nothing about eve. Please think before you hit the post button, if only for their sake.
tigress Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:15:00 - [160] Edited by: tigress on 05/12/2006 09:17:19 Hey, this thread needs to soap its mouth it seems :P. The IAC has nothing but respect for the MC, even if beating them is nice and dandy. There is nothing more to it really. Sometimes you win sometimes you loose. And no, I'm far from a GHSC alt. I thought all alts where bobettes?
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:31:00 - [161] Great posts from Seleene, as per usual (for those of us who can't watch at the moment, they're invaluable). Good work on the unorthodox setups as well. As for Spiraljunkie and Ifni
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:26:00 - [162] A few things from my perspective: We admitted to making mistakes, which may have cost us the fight. No excuses. To improve, we reflect on it. I am most surprised, however, at the responses of EVE-TV staff. I've enjoyed the EVE-TV a lot, and prior to reading this thread* I would have had nothing negative to say about the general quality of the commentary, and in fact I think spiralJunkie and others have done a good job. I was flying a Maulus in the match so I can not directly comment on the broadcast commentary during our match I can understand it's not always possible to present fully thought-out analysis briefly after a match. Because of this one should try and avoid making hasty conclusions - especially if they are strongly criticising. What your responses in the thread seem like to me are defensive attempts to cover up in order to not have to go back on your words. As a team, you understandably also protect eachother - at least to some extent. Instead of reading the whole thread therefore and attempting to be objective about it, you just seem to bandwagon in support of your team - which is of course understandable. One of the bigger issues that have come up here is attribution. I'm going to tackle this: "I can't understand why anyone would hire MC after this"* To hire MC is to employ MC to complete a task or a set of tasks or objectives. Unless our failure, or any goal reached through it is one of those goals, it is mandatory for the client to believe in our ability to reach them - or a chance to succeed, evaluated sufficient by the client. In order for our display in the tournament to provide any reliance on our ability outside it, 1. the goals and means to reach them must be similar, 2. our team members' performance must be generalisable to the whole of MC, 3. the strategic choices and the decision-making structure must be generalisable and attributed to permanent characteristics that reliably predict similar future behaviour and 4. we can't and won't learn from our mistakes. 1. Our goals in the tournament were three-fold: have fun, be entertaining and win. Our possible ship choices were numerous, but to strike one between the goals we decided not to go for a cookie-cutter setup but a semi-anti-strategy to IAC's amarrian team that would not auto-lose to a different opposing setup. You are free to disagree on the strategy, but do so constructively (ie. point out the flaws and present arguments). Our goals on contracts usually involve diminishing the freedom and assets of our targets. To compare regular warfare and a controlled, isolated environment with clearly determined different rules is fallacious, and serves no ground for generalisation. 2. Our team is 7 people. MC is over 200. Even if the outcome of the tournament could be attributed to dispositional or personality-based factors, a generalisation would be ridiculous. Furthermore, while piloting errors occured - as admitted - would they occur again? What was the role of situational factors? See fundamental attribution error. 3. Do the same people who devised our tournament strategies decide on all the strategies that contribute to the success or failure of our contracts? Hardly. Are the strategies even similar? No. Otherwise we'd bump the living poo out of our targets. 4. What do you think this thread is about? ---
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:34:00 - [163] I'd just like to point out that Jin is one of the few people in MC who can (and often does) out-talk me. Nice post, man. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Frantico Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:08:00 - [164] Good fight keept me on the toes :) i love intresting fights :P Messa <3 loves seleene
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:56:00 - [165] lol...now that smack talking is all aside...and we all agree it was fun. Wasn't it funny how the commentator, I don't know the name....said Tyrrax was going to post on here about how IAC beat MC....little things like that are just ignorant...oh well....what a show it was...wish you could see recaps of all the fights....like a movie gallery....
Silenne Otsaku Amarr Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:08:00 - [166] i was really lucky to watch this match, i've not watch a lot (boracast problem, irl & so), but i've see this match. my first things "OMH they field the Impoc ,IAC vs MC!!!" and whe only the impoc and the bc i was : "he was going down, the impoc ... IAC has the ball to bring his ship, it's a moment of history !" and after they win, they destroy one after the other the MC, was a really good fight. Victory / Defeat relay on strategie and little mistake, the CNR armro tanked is a good idea, at first i was think "ouch , fast shield loss", but a really good fight. Thanks to all the involved party! Ps : i may be cool to incrust on the EveTV stream a IAC vs MC screen before the match, and in the bottom too, it erally help for non english ppl to understand what happen ! Nahh no sign for now :p
deadmaus Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:50:00 - [167] Originally by: Latex Mistress Sel talks. A lot. He loves details and has no problems laying them out on a public forum so people can what what's going on. He does it for contracts, individual battles, and the PvP Tourney. WTF He, He !!? All this time I have been working up the courage to ask HIM to have my babies!! and all along Selene is a GUY!. I feel so foolish and stunned and let down at the same time. EVE will never be the same for me now.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:16:00 - [168] Yes, I too was shocked and appalled to find out Seleene was a dude. Then we went out for steaks, and I found out he was kinda hunky. He can carry my babies any time. As for the uninspired geek who tried to badmouth IAC by calling them Guiding Hand, I'll say only this: the words of a shattered man are dust upon the wind.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:19:00 - [169] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yes, I too was shocked and appalled to find out Seleene was a dude. Then we went out for steaks, and I found out he was kinda hunky. He can carry my babies any time. What happens in Iceland stays in Iceland. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 14:23:00 - [170] Originally by: Seleene Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yes, I too was shocked and appalled to find out Seleene was a dude. Then we went out for steaks, and I found out he was kinda hunky. He can carry my babies any time. What happens in Iceland stays in Iceland. That is not a nice image , btw Istvaan Shogaatsu you owe me a cigarette
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:32:00 - [171] Originally by: Seleene Lastly, the Tournament is not normal PvP. This both sucks and rocks because until youÆve done it, you have no frakkinÆ clue what itÆs like to be here. Nothing else on Tranquility compares to the nerve wracking adrenaline as this contest. So any of you arm-chair generals who feel like you could do better, feel free to field a team yourselves next time. WeÆll be there waiting on you to show us how much better you are. /signed The tournament isn't like normal PVP where it's more wham bam thank you maam or GTFO. You know when you are going to fight, you know who you are going to fight, you have a limited arsenal of ships and mods, and there are thousands of people watching. It's pure nervous adrenaline from about the 2 hours before until your match starts, then it dissipates and you try as hard as you can to execute your strategy, hoping it wins. also, good job with the match MC. I figured out what you were doing from the start (armor tanking against Amarr is def 4tw) and hoped you were going to come out on top. But when you have an intricate plan with many parts, one or two seemingly minor errors can screw it all up. Oh well, it's just a game.
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.06 22:07:00 - [172] Morons. How many times you put 5 heavy logistic drones into your drone bay on TQ ? 0 ? 1 ? 2 ? Stfu about about pvp then. Small scale warfare is always about nos\ecm\tank.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.07 04:57:00 - [173] Originally by: Evil Thug Morons. How many times you put 5 heavy logistic drones into your drone bay on TQ ? 0 ? 1 ? 2 ? Stfu about about pvp then. Small scale warfare is always about nos\ecm\tank. Logisitic drones are banned in the tourney. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:09:00 - [174] Originally by: Evil Thug Morons. How many times you put 5 heavy logistic drones into your drone bay on TQ ? 0 ? 1 ? 2 ? Stfu about about pvp then. Small scale warfare is always about nos\ecm\tank. you obviously have never faced the trio of blasterthrons all with armor repping drones combo.
Elaron Minmatar Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:25:00 - [175] For me, this was the best fight I've watched in either of the televised Alliance tournaments. Very good scrap; I salute you all.
xh'duality Caldari Caldari Luftwaffe Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.08 09:45:00 - [176] I was very Impressed to see a setup wich was made just to tank the Impoc. Something different for once. I watched the match and was VERY supprised where the CNR's shield droped with in second's. First I tough omfg they didnt tank the CNR Then I saw it was armor tanked (wich I got to say was pretty good). So all in all I say GF and hope we can see more good fight's like this again Also I hate to see how much crap comes out about being honest about plan's wich may have worked but a pilot error's wich cause it to fail. Come on peep's. Seleen was was just trying to show what the plan was and what went wrong. No need of making drama. I was gonna say something from the beginning but watching this seing ppl being childish about this is just plain stupidity. If I would be involved I would have just stoped posting here cause why fight with kid's who have no self respect. Well hope this finlay get's to an end. Cya ya guy's on the field --------------------------------------------------- It take's 10 finger's for to smacktalk and ONLY ONE TO WIN [The all mighty "I WIN BOTTON"]
Dekiri Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:40:00 - [177] Edited by: Dekiri on 08/12/2006 11:44:31 Edited by: Dekiri on 08/12/2006 11:40:26 I really don't know what you guys expected. When you put a random person into a "position of power" (eve-tv broadcasting is a lot of power if you can spread your opinions) the chance of that person to get*****y and fly high is about 80%. Only about 20% of the people can theoretically deal with power of any kind (you see that with directors and leaders of corps as well as in RL)and of those maybe again only 2% actually WANT any power. The vast majority flip out and do stupid things. And that is imho what is currently happening. The Eve-TV experts and moderators are having serious self control issues or lack the scope on what they actually are doing in their current position. I suggest some humility and some self management and then maybe a bit more love for those that actually fight in the tournament. And ... how is armor tanked raven "out of the box" ??? Seriously it is not like seleene invented that and it can be very efficient under certain circumstances i would expext so called experts to be up to date on the fitting possibilities of one of the most common ships. Just fyi the armor of the raven is slightly lower then the shield capacity but you start with 20% more base resists on the armor wich makes this nice. So depending on what resists you plan for the armor tank can well be superior then the shield tank. Not to mention that you can use the mids for other stuff that can in certain situations be way more useful then the stuff you can pack into lowslots. I hereby call all who complain about armor tanked ravens newbs with no clue about fitting! -------------- My dad can beat up your dad! Support lowsec!
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.08 11:42:00 - [178] Originally by: Troubadour you obviously have never faced the trio of blasterthrons all with armor repping drones combo. Sounds like a waste of DPS. I'd much rather drop one or two blasters than drop my five t2 heavies on a blasterthron. 5 of them would amount to a single LAR, this is true, but in all honesty the maintenance drones aren't that great except when used by larger ships on the smaller. 5 heavy armor maint. drones on an ishkur, for one, is almost cheating. ---- Where's my soup?

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