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My Thoughts on MC vs. IAC and the Tourney

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Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:22:00 - [1] Edited by: Seleene on 04/12/2006 08:26:21 People have been telling me that it's a good thing I turned EVE TV off so I was spared the commentary. As far as the 'experts' on the desk, at least Farjung had the balls to correct everyone by stating the obvious about armor tanking against an Amarr team. We had a lot of different options for this match, but the key question was: would we see the Impoc? We could have fielded an all-damage team that I'm certain would have broken the thing's tank, but then what happens to us if Jim Raynor shows up in a completely different setup? There were a lot of things to consider, so we had to strike a middle ground while still providing for a chance to win. I'll cover the ships in a moment, but the plan was... Our strategy for last night against IAC was rock solid. The plan, conceived by Sivona, was simply fantastic and when we saw IAC field exactly what we expected, we cheered because we knew the fight was ours to lose. It was simple in concept, but required a lot of specific actions done precisely right: Take out the frigs and the enemy Curse with precision cruise and drones while stuffing damps all in the Impoc's face. I also had a pair of webber drones to put on the Impoc (which worked pretty damn well it seemed). Once it was 5 on 2, my large remote rep helps keep our Curse and EOS alive while they NOS the IMPOC. I switch to Explosive Fury cruise and we put all the pain in the world on the Impoc, not because we were hungry for the kill but because it's a Tech 1 ship and we judged it to have the weaker resists. Kill the cap, and it would die. Then, we'd finish off Tyrrax. Everything was going perfectly. The frigs died horribly, the Impoc was effectively neutered and the Curse went down even faster than weÆd planned. The Impoc was at 60% armor and I was settling in for a nice long pounding on it. Then our Curse started taking damage and called for a rep. No problem, I click to activate and am told that my target is out of range. IÆll say: he was 40 km away. IÆm still unclear as to how my team got split apart like this. There are a lot of factors that contributed, the 60km radius of the arena being one of them. Regardless, I couldnÆt get there in time and Tyrrax melted the Curse in about thirty seconds. Our EOS was also a NOS boat and someone on IAC must have had a web because he could not close back in time either. And so, in less than three minutes, victory turned to disaster. By all rights, we would have... should have won last night. But, like all plans of this nature, it only requires one or two small mistakes to turn the whole thing to **. By their own admission, IAC knows this just as well as anyone and last night it was our turn for Demon Murphy to sink his teeth into us. As for my CNR last night, here it is: CNR** 7x Cruise 1x Large Remote Armor Rep (best named) 3x Phased Muon Damps 1x Medium Electro-Chem Cap Injector 1x T2 Sensor Booster 1x Quad Lif MWD 1x Co-Proc II 1x Internal Force Field Array 2x 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates 1x Medium Armor Rep II Yes, normally Erilynn has a FG Crystal set in, but last night she was running a mixed grade Slave set that, with gang bonuses, gave her over 35,800 armor. With the IFFA, her skills and the Eos gang module bonuses, the ship had over 70% resists to EM and Thermal damage. In other words: shields last night 4TL. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:22:00 - [2] Edited by: Seleene on 04/12/2006 08:22:59 Originally by: Shin Ra MC took a chance. They lost, but you cannot say they have done badly in this tournament. A huggin setup would have meant a long and boring match as without the curse, it would be difficult to kill the other ships. Anyone who spend billions on these crazy setups, which btw did ALMOST win twice, certainly deserves respect. Shin gets it. TBH, my own respect for BE has gone up several notches over the last week. Not only because of how they have played in their matches but also for statements like the above. In the Tournament, you either win or lose. All the WCS jokes in the world donÆt mean a thing when LeMonde finishes his countdown in Local. I said at the beginning of this thing that MC would ôBring the Crazyö. We hate cookie cutter standard set-ups and would much rather spend our money and time on something that makes people say, ôWow! That was different.ö The problem is that some would rather spend their time telling us how we could have won and slagging us for trying to be innovative and think out of the box. Soà As for last nightÆs result, yeah, IÆm pretty upset TBH. A fight like last night is what I both love and hate about these Tournaments. You know you could / should have won with the set-up you had and then you think of about five things you might have done differently, etcà The Impoc is a monster ship which completely changes the dynamic of any match it is a part of. WeÆre in the hardest group of the Tourney. Thus far, IAC has survived Red Skull, Burn Eden (I donÆt care about cans, IAC won that match) and now MC. Tyrrax deserves all the respect in the world for having the balls to field his toy against teams in the æGroup of DeathÆ that he knows could have fielded ships with the DPS to destroy it. Lastly, the Tournament is not normal PvP. This both sucks and rocks because until youÆve done it, you have no frakkinÆ clue what itÆs like to be here. Nothing else on Tranquility compares to the nerve wracking adrenaline as this contest. So any of you arm-chair generals who feel like you could do better, feel free to field a team yourselves next time. WeÆll be there waiting on you to show us how much better you are. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Cuebick Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:37:00 - [3] It was fun to watch and even though you lost you had a good thing going there
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:53:00 - [4] I was half surprised you didn't turnout with a full gank setup and announce you had a contract against the impoc from istvaan or others though
QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.04 08:55:00 - [5] Edited by: QwaarJet on 04/12/2006 08:55:43 Having participated in the tournament, I know waht you mean. The nerves and adrenaline make you prone to mistakes you would never make anywhere else. You had it going there, and you were the better team, despite what the "experts" said. Your going to be hard pushed to qualify now. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:06:00 - [6] Quit being nice to us, I already told u we're not joining MC
BOldMan Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Seleene Then our Curse started taking damage and called for a rep. No problem, I click to activate and am told that my target is out of range. IÆll say: he was 40 km away. That was the fatal error. The curse pilot should have maintain distance from raven with all costs. As for armour tank raven I was very little surprise, it is a very logical choice.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Takahashi Arran I was half surprised you didn't turnout with a full gank setup and announce you had a contract against the impoc from istvaan or others though That was the other option - CNR with Jav/Rage torps & painter, Nighthawk and Cerb with Fury Heavies. This is our flagship Caldari squad which very possibly could have won last night. It was my gut call and, in hindsight (arrrrgh!), what I think we should have done. Then again, I have a very, "UGH SMASH PUNY SHIPS!" caveman attitude when it comes to PvP so the others conviced me to go with a much more flexible plan. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:15:00 - [9] Nice post but the range error was a bit uncharacteristic of MC Sellene dont you think. I participated last time with this char and I am participating this time with another char so I know what you mean about nervs and stuff.... I also know what you mean about nerves and Mr Murphy... last time's -v- team could have gone a long long way if not for the logistics' ctd that cause the elimination by ATUK/5/DICE (whatever ) Still missing range like that when you rely on your remote trasnfers is... very odd... I can only surmise that you were drunk from the early success (judging from your commentary I didnt see the match :( ) and charged in without doing the obvious ... which (as I am sure you well know and would have done if you werent thus inubrated) would be to advance on them in turtle formation (holding back your drones) and having the Curse and Raven put the pain on TT to weaken a bit the Impoc's cap... once all 3 in range then and only then should you have gone for the Impoc with Eos closest Curse and Raven hanging a bit back... But now I am becoming the armchair general... all I meant to say was respect for MC and the way you bring it in the tourney and on TQ but I am sure you kicking yourselves for the range error a lot more than your post is letting show. I wish to you that you manage to advance and produce the shining performances that will make you forget this. As for TT I hate his guts after last year's scum that finished off the Trust team but he does the same to all enemies... they give away easy frig+reckon kills and people then are just shocked by what the Impoc - Abso combo can do... hats off to them ... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Orvas Dren Gallente The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:17:00 - [10] I had a great time watching from my pod after the first 30 seconds... We considered damping your Maulus' rather than the Curse and CNR, but meh.. I love playing the 30 second distraction :) EVE-Mail me for custom signature work. Price Negotiable
Aeleva Caldari Hegemonic Core Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:34:00 - [11] That fight was a classic. It was close, and swung both ways. Lets just say i had a box of tissues to cry into as i was expecting the impoc to go boom. It does make this feel a bit more like a sport type event though, a few critical errors in the wrong place can cause upset. Brilliant fight, infact Well done to the MC for providing some of the most entertaining moments so far. The mach was classic :)
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:39:00 - [12] I have to back it up that an armor tanked raven does a pretty good job against lasers. Pity it's hard to combine damage mods with it, but it's not as bad as some would suggest. I was a risky setup, could have worked so I respect that And hats off to IAC. Some very good battles in this tourney and seeing the Impoc in action makes it all the sweeter In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 04/12/2006 09:13:28 Originally by: Takahashi Arran I was half surprised you didn't turnout with a full gank setup and announce you had a contract against the impoc from istvaan or others though That was the other option - CNR with Jav/Rage torps & painter, Nighthawk and Cerb with Fury Heavies. Our Caldari gank squad very possibly could have won last night. It was my gut call and, in hindsight (arrrrgh!), what I think we should have done. Then again, I have a very, "UGH SMASH PUNY SHIPS!" caveman attitude when it comes to PvP so the others conviced me to go with a much more flexible plan. I think it would kind of be a shame for someone to come out JUST to kill the priceless ship at the expense of a loss. I respect that you guys tried to go with what you thought would win, not what would just be able to kill the IMPOC (although it might also have won). It reminds me a little bit (just a little bit mind you ;p) of a situation I found myself in in the amarr championship. My team was fighting Tank CEOs team and it was down to 2v1 (I think) and it was clear that I was going to lose. Tank was sitting there in a pod carefree and this was just after he had gone on his "concord is broken look what I can do to nubs in the empire hub" rampage. I considered podding him and taking the forfeit because I was going to lose anyway, but I decided against it. I still kind of regret not doing it (because of how ****ed he would have been) but it was definitely more in the spirit of the match. Anyhow, just a little anecdote. The Enemy's Gate is Down
darth solo Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:03:00 - [14] the tourny is funny... the key to it is the actual first few seconds after u see what ur enemy team has.. all u hear on vent is "oh no we are screwed" or "ooo this is looking good"... tbh its been far too much stress for me, iv not enjoyed it. would have been nice to have blown up that impoc, looked close too. d solo. celes apoc kill board
Mjnari Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 04/12/2006 09:13:28 Originally by: Takahashi Arran I was half surprised you didn't turnout with a full gank setup and announce you had a contract against the impoc from istvaan or others though That was the other option - CNR with Jav/Rage torps & painter, Nighthawk and Cerb with Fury Heavies. Our Caldari gank squad very possibly could have won last night. It was my gut call and, in hindsight (arrrrgh!), what I think we should have done. Then again, I have a very, "UGH SMASH PUNY SHIPS!" caveman attitude when it comes to PvP so the others conviced me to go with a much more flexible plan. Mjnari reads Mjnari runs > notepad.exe "ForTux_Fanfest07.txt" CNR Nighthawk Cerberus (on a more serious note , nice post - it adds a lot more substance to the post-fight discussions to see more of the chessboard laid bare) ------------------------ Minmatar, It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi.
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:31:00 - [16] Come on Seleene, why don't you really say what you feel about the commentators. In fact I am pretty sure one of them said "Why would anyone hire MC after a showing like that!!" You just gonna let that slide Sel? Thats not like you. [ER Public Relations Officer] [Is main activated, check, Post!]

Redundancy	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:36:00 - [17] It was a damn good fight, and I was on the edge of my seat cheering for you when it looked like the Impoc was going to go down.

Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.12.04 10:37:00 - [18] Edited by: Wild Rho on 04/12/2006 10:38:22 Wasn't there and I'm not psychic but it looked like your guys got distracted at the thought of bringing down one of the rarest ships in the game and it cost them in the end. I'm suprised you let the "armour tanked" raven jibe bother you tbh. Anyone who actually had a clue knew why it was there regardless of what the commentators said and anyone who didn't only showed how little they really knew about pvp setups. Either way it was an awesome fight from both sides and had me hopping up and down in my seat so kudos to MC for bringing out a good team and almost pulling it off and to IAC for having the sheer balls to use such a rare ship in a tournament like this. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Tholarim Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:01:00 - [19] Originally by: darth solo the tourny is funny... the key to it is the actual first few seconds after u see what ur enemy team has.. all u hear on vent is "oh no we are screwed" or "ooo this is looking good"... tbh its been far too much stress for me, iv not enjoyed it. would have been nice to have blown up that impoc, looked close too. d solo. Well that's what makes this tourney great, the countless possibilities in setup you and your opponent can field. So like seleene says, you fit one that could score you a win in the most scenarios. But if you're unlucky your opponent fields one that specificly nukes yours. It's more of a luck of the draw this time around imo.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Seleene on 04/12/2006 11:13:28 Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Come on Seleene, why don't you really say what you feel about the commentators. Heh. As I said, I wasn't listening to it. All I know is what people have told me, which is that the people commentating the match didn't seem to really understand / believe what they were seeing. Yeah, armor tanking a Raven is kind of odd, but how else are you going to get nearly 500 DPS of explosive damage, EW, mobility (MWD), remote repair and tank? For what we needed, the CNR was perfect. Seriously, did you guys see how long it took Tyrrax to chew through all that armor? Quote: In fact I am pretty sure one of them said "Why would anyone hire MC after a showing like that!!" Meh. Considering we just started one rather large contract and have two more lined up keeping us busy for the next couple months I'm not too worried. Originally by: Wild Rho Wasn't there and I'm not psychic but it looked like your guys got distracted at the thought of bringing down one of the rarest ships in the game and it cost them in the end. Not at all. TBH, it was just the next target in line. Of the Abso and the Impoc, we decided to go for the ship that we figured to have the lower resists. In addition, with that beast feeding Tyrrax, the only way we could have killed him would have been to bring out our gank squad. No, m8, we just screwed up with our manuvering and paid the price. I can't even really be mad at my guys because, as I said earlier, these matches are insanely intense. It's not just the fight itself, but with EVE TV going and 15,000+ people watching and your alliance's name on the line? Heh, there's no one immune to the shakes and one mistake is all you have to make for the other team to rip you a new one. - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Seleene I can't even really be mad at my guys because, as I said earlier, these matches are insanely intense. It's not just the fight itself, but with EVE TV going and 15,000+ people watching and your alliance's name on the line? Heh, there's no one immune to the shakes and one mistake is all you have to make for the other team to rip you a new one. Quoted for truth. I've got a feeling like the amount of losses due to nerves rivals those due to CTDs. Also, I'd like to point out that this Tourney made me change my point of view on the ability of an Amarr laser to break my Typhoon armor tank, and that's by far no 30k HPs. I can't believe the raw DPS some of you Abbadon and Absolution pilots pile on armor that's supposed to be fairly resistant to EM and Thermal. More comments from the teams please! -- Thukkers do
NereSky Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:42:00 - [22] my thoughts and feelings were MC were winning till the curse popped , the explanation by seleene and the Raven fitting seems as though it would have worked , but tbh we will never know, all i do know is that the match was awesome and kudos to both sides, MC proved again that they bring it with some very good tactical planning and very good teamwork, IAC for bringing the im'poc , wow what a ship :) a fantastic match and thoroughly enjoyed it , respect all round.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Come on Seleene, why don't you really say what you feel about the commentators. In fact I am pretty sure one of them said "Why would anyone hire MC after a showing like that!!" You just gonna let that slide Sel? Thats not like you. Ifni hasn't always been the sharpest "expert" when it's not about Amarr or Gallente ships. :) That and he clearly thought that was going to be his best moment on air. :) If anything, we might actually get some more fights out of our targets now as we do clearly suck at PvP. :) - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Hermia Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:15:00 - [24] THought IAC was toast after loosing all support. I was thinking, holy hell all mc need to do is damp the impoc (forcing bc to hung it) and keep out of range to suvive with support intact. Then the pair start charging all over the place! Interesting fight, could have gone both ways easilly. The commentry is beter, dont rate one or two of the experts but i wont name names.
n sx The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:49:00 - [25] Seleene, I got outta bed at 4:30am on a Monday morning, before work to watch this fight knowing that if anyone had a chance at raw smackdown of Tyrrax's e-peen it would be you guys. I also knew Tyrrax wouldn't have fielded it if he wasn't confident with his game plan. Kudos to you both teams for using the expensive toys too, a CNR isn't exactly throw away material either so it was obvious you were all going for it. This was for real and everyone in EVE knew it. As I said pre fight, the competition stakes between IAC and MC are high. There is much love from IAC toward MC after 'The month with no sleep' and this is just another one of those things to add to the fruitful history we're building up. As the fight drew to a close, I found myself wide awake throwing my arms in the air. It was a great sight to see, and thank-you to both teams for some seriously good entertainment. In all honesty I had the same level of concern and worry regarding the BE fight. We're all well aware they're capable of bringing some left field tactics and setups. BE's participation in this tourney has been somewhat of an eye opener and it's great to see them doing well, and taking it all in their stride. There just wasn't that political out of game buildup that MC brought to the party. IAC and MC are just going to have to write another chapter together some time in the future. Good luck to all in the remainder of the PVP tourney!
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Crellion Nice post but the range error was a bit uncharacteristic of MC Sellene dont you think. I participated last time with this char and I am participating this time with another char so I know what you mean about nervs and stuff.... I also know what you mean about nerves and Mr Murphy... last time's -v- team could have gone a long long way if not for the logistics' ctd that cause the elimination by ATUK/5/DICE (whatever ) Still missing range like that when you rely on your remote trasnfers is... very odd... I can only surmise that you were drunk from the early success (judging from your commentary I didnt see the match :( ) and charged in without doing the obvious ... which (as I am sure you well know and would have done if you werent thus inubrated) would be to advance on them in turtle formation (holding back your drones) and having the Curse and Raven put the pain on TT to weaken a bit the Impoc's cap... once all 3 in range then and only then should you have gone for the Impoc with Eos closest Curse and Raven hanging a bit back... But now I am becoming the armchair general... all I meant to say was respect for MC and the way you bring it in the tourney and on TQ but I am sure you kicking yourselves for the range error a lot more than your post is letting show. I wish to you that you manage to advance and produce the shining performances that will make you forget this. As for TT I hate his guts after last year's scum that finished off the Trust team but he does the same to all enemies... they give away easy frig+reckon kills and people then are just shocked by what the Impoc - Abso combo can do... hats off to them ... I have to say pretty much QFT to crellion here - Seleene, with all the respect in the world (which I think your showing in the tourney has earned), every part of your OP is fair and honest with the exception of seeming to blame the size of the arena and murphy and anything else for not being in remote rep range - because I would have thought it was obvious to ORDER your small ships at the start to stay within rep range of the big one - in fact, I did think that, and I did say that to my team! This isnt even a hint of me trying to gloat, as that would be ridiculous. This is me saying, I agreed wholeheartedly with your strategy, ignored the rubbish about "armour tank cnr???" and still felt that a bit of maneuvring should have been essential to your strategy. Im sure if you were piloting your megathron on Seleene you wouldnt struggle to think about range with blasters, so why not on Erilyn? I guess it was just the missile boat effect...? In truth, it is easy, oh so easy, for these tournament matches to change in seconds, and in the heat of the hardest group, facing the rarest ship in game (I dont count the fedathron, it wont see combat), there's no blame to be cast. I should hope that nobody's respect for you guys is changed by this. It was a great fight to watch. ---\|\|---
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:25:00 - [27] i was quite critical about this match and MC strategy in particular :P looking it on TV was not possible to see that your team split up and i tought you had a full dps/damp setup and no support/repairers to keep the curse (heart of your strategy alive) i had taken a huginn expecting that setup anyway to capitalize range advantage given by missiles and damps but i alsoo see that you had the plan to keep the curse alive and was not just an "attrition war" as i suspected in first instance. for IAC, sure kudos for their bravery... but also i think they where extremely lucky both in this and previous tournament
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:28:00 - [28] Having the cohones to go after arguably the rarest ship in the game and losing is no loss in my book, well fought to both sides, and one of the better fights I've seen .
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:29:00 - [29] I went from saying crap crap crap to...woohooo....that was awesome to watch from both sides....and with MC still showing contracts in the southeast....it's like pure rivalries...with respect.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Seleene on 04/12/2006 13:42:04 Originally by: El Yatta seeming to blame the size of the arena and murphy and anything else for not being in remote rep range - because I would have thought it was obvious to ORDER your small ships at the start to stay within rep range of the big one - in fact, I did think that, and I did say that to my team! It's just one of those things that I can't explain, m8. My people knew their jobs and, near as I could tell, everything was going fine. But, like I said, I didn't even realize that our Curse was that far away until I hit the rep button. I think what happened is that our Curse was set to orbit the enemy Cruse. When we popped him, our Curse should have closed back on me (as was the plan) but with moving his NOS over to Raem, shifting his drones over, etc... I guess that one step just got forgotten. My Frigates stayed tucked in close and I actually did manage to rep them a couple times and save them from enemy drones for a bit. Our Eos had a web and was supposed to be moving in and out to assist with keeping the enemy team held up a bit. That's why he was out of range and it looked to me like he got webbed as well. I did burn 2/3 of my cap MWDing to try to get a rep on him, but Tyrrax has some INSANE damage pumping out of that Absolution. We ****** up. That's all there is to it. I am happy to see that most people understand what we were trying to do. One of the coolest things about this Tourney is how professional everyone has been. I spoke to Raem right after the match and he was very honest about IAC's thoughts before and during the fight. I haven't spoken to Tyrrax yet as I suspect he was about as drained as I was after 24 hours of planning. I'm just looking forward to our last match against Red Skull next weekend. I'm not sure what we're going to pull out of our bag of tricks, but if I could find a way to drop a Nyx or an Aeon into the ring at this point I would probably do it. PS - I wanna read about other people's matches too, damnit! Stop whoring my thread, drink some coffee and get to work! - Oz's Tourney Betting Pool

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