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Sticky:The Official Security and Botting discussion thread

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 31 post(s)

CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:00:00 - [1] - Quote We had a pretty good thread going on the old forums on this topic and I think it's really important to keep the lines of dialogue open with you guys so rather than wait for 100 threads to be created on the topic I'll make this topic so that we have a single place to discuss these things with you. The purpose of this thread is to answer your questions or encourage discussion on the topic and my commitment is to monitor the thread as often as I can and respond to your questions or concerns. As a frame of reference the Fanfest presentation on the subject can be found Here and I encourage you to watch it and discuss its contents. This was Ninjaspud's original bot informational thread. This was riverini's original bot thread.

Mr LaForge Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 32	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:01:00 - [2] - Quote I'll bite. What is CCP doing about the selling of Bot characters to other bot accounts?
Marconus Orion S.E.G.W.A.Y. 54	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:06:00 - [3] - Quote They should simply prohibit character transfers if the account was flagged for botting. Even if it was just the first offense.
Mashie Saldana Veto. Veto Corp 26	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:07:00 - [4] - Quote What about my suggestion in the previous thread about adding a bit of text across the profile images of those caught botting. I mean it doesn't have to be permanent, only for the duration of their ban.
Messoroz The Penetrators The Laughing Men 9	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:15:00 - [5] - Quote So how come the ability to remotely send targetted python code to any connected client is not mentioned/documented anywhere? :P
Alua Oresson Elisium Minerals and Industry Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 14	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:20:00 - [6] - Quote Best fix for bots, make them unable to dock, unable to cloak, and attackable by anyone in high sec. Then place a Botter tag on their portrait similar to the current Wanted tag. This would punish botters severely while keeping botter money because you haven't banned their account. Perhaps make a 1 hour timer that would let them dock for 5 minutes every hour or so in order for them to fit a new ship to be blown up.
Buster Gonads Tiny Industries 19	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:29:00 - [7] - Quote Alua Oresson wrote: Best fix for bots, make them unable to dock, unable to cloak, and attackable by anyone in high sec. Then place a Botter tag on their portrait similar to the current Wanted tag. This would punish botters severely while keeping botter money because you haven't banned their account. Perhaps make a 1 hour timer that would let them dock for 5 minutes every hour or so in order for them to fit a new ship to be blown up. Agree. They need to be flagged "open season", but not be notified of their flag for at least a week .

CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:29:00 - [8] - Quote Mr LaForge wrote: I'll bite. What is CCP doing about the selling of Bot characters to other bot accounts? The transfer of characters is traceable and for the time being we're handling this on the back end. We don't believe at this time that there's any benefit to restricting it, though we may impose other restrictions. It's a lot more work on our part, but we don't want to rush in and throw up giant security roadblocks in front of any process unless it's absolutely necessary.

Cipher Jones 11	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:30:00 - [9] - Quote A few weeks ago I got me a prowler. Sexy ship If i do say so myself. Took it on one of those fancy low sec courier missions. When I got to the station I made myself a safespot for launching. Sitting there XXXK away from the station was mortifying. Nothing but courier bots to be seen. Names like 39r6yfhebv, oqei7rg-9f8 etc etc. No pirates in the system because the courier bots carry no valuable loot. Level 4 quality 20 agent in lolsec just giving out loyalty points by the zillions to bots. This was not for SOE but I can see why their probe market is crappy these days. Anyway, on the big thread from the old forums, they had not said much about, or rather said nothing about courier bots. so here are my questions: 1. Is CCP aware of the courier bot situation? 2. Is there a plausible fix for this? 3. Do you think the agent quality changes will help ebb the flow of these bastards? Thanks.

CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:30:00 - [10] - Quote Mashie Saldana wrote: What about my suggestion in the previous thread about adding a bit of text across the profile images of those caught botting. I mean it doesn't have to be permanent, only for the duration of their ban. All I can say about this at the moment is that it's an intriguing idea that has a lot of pros and cons.

Henry Haphorn Metalworks Majesta Empire 1	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:31:00 - [11] - Quote I would very much prefer to see this thread be used to report on the impact being made by CCP against botting. Basically, just like Ninjaspud's old thread in which he was giving us intel on what the botting community is up to and how much they're squirming to the will of those that want to ban them for good.
Alua Oresson Elisium Minerals and Industry Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 14	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:33:00 - [12] - Quote It's low sec, name the system. I'm sure some vigilantes will want to visit from time to time.

CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:34:00 - [13] - Quote Messoroz wrote: So how come the ability to remotely send targetted python code to any connected client is not mentioned/documented anywhere? :P You're connecting to a server with a client. The entire purpose of connecting to a server is to receive targeted code. That one who maintains both the server and the client would be able to alter that code should come as no surprise and should be understood. It's documented in the EULA, section D. I believe.

Juil Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd. 0	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:36:00 - [14] - Quote Don't know if you ever answered this durring fanfests posts or if it got 'missed' but will we have the option such as blizzard gives to use our Iphones etc rather then give you extra $$ for an authenticator? Also who punched your avatar Sreegs.. damned.. i can't tell if he has a broken jaw.. or if he's trying to blow rasberry's..
Letrange Red Horizon Inc R.A.G.E 0	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:36:00 - [15] - Quote Humm, Should NinjaSpud start another reporting thread or merge into this one? The original anti-botting thread and Ninja's were the ones I followed in the old forums.
Juil Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd. 0	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:36:00 - [16] - Quote Damned we where GANKED errors ignore this one

CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:36:00 - [17] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: A few weeks ago I got me a prowler. Sexy ship If i do say so myself. Took it on one of those fancy low sec courier missions. When I got to the station I made myself a safespot for launching. Sitting there XXXK away from the station was mortifying. Nothing but courier bots to be seen. Names like 39r6yfhebv, oqei7rg-9f8 etc etc. No pirates in the system because the courier bots carry no valuable loot. Level 4 quality 20 agent in lolsec just giving out loyalty points by the zillions to bots. This was not for SOE but I can see why their probe market is crappy these days. Anyway, on the big thread from the old forums, they had not said much about, or rather said nothing about courier bots. so here are my questions: 1. Is CCP aware of the courier bot situation? 2. Is there a plausible fix for this? 3. Do you think the agent quality changes will help ebb the flow of these bastards? Thanks. 1. We are not focusing on specific applications of botting but bots overall. This means couriers are on the list and there have been courier bots actioned one. 2. See 1. 3. I'm not sure. I'm not really a game design wizard, but the quality changes don't change the nature of our back end investigations.


CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:37:00 - [18] - Quote Henry Haphorn wrote: I would very much prefer to see this thread be used to report on the impact being made by CCP against botting. Basically, just like Ninjaspud's old thread in which he was giving us intel on what the botting community is up to and how much they're squirming to the will of those that want to ban them for good. You or anyone else can feel free to post that type of information in this thread. Any announcements we have to make will come in the form of Dev Blogs. I merely wanted a venue for open communication.


CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:39:00 - [19] - Quote Juil wrote: Don't know if you ever answered this durring fanfests posts or if it got 'missed' but will we have the option such as blizzard gives to use our Iphones etc rather then give you extra $$ for an authenticator? Also who punched your avatar Sreegs.. damned.. i can't tell if he has a broken jaw.. or if he's trying to blow rasberry's.. At this point in time all we have planned is physical tokens, but the back-end system is the same so it's not a huge leap to think we may at some point be able to offer this service. He's trying to look sexy.

Juil Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd. 0	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:42:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Sreegs wrote: At this point in time all we have planned is physical tokens, but the back-end system is the same so it's not a huge leap to think we may at some point be able to offer this service. He's trying to look sexy. Good to hear because honestly given we already have to pay i don't see why we should have to pay extra for security that really shouldn't be needed but saddly is.
Messoroz The Penetrators The Laughing Men 9	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:48:00 - [21] - Quote Ok, here's a ridiculously better question. Why are courier bots in low sec being rampantly ignored? Here's an example: http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2560 and some more specific km whoring example http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2560 (You need to copy and paste the URLs above because it seems somebody broke the url handler for the redirect and html entified the ampersands like a boss). Having that many haulers being killed in a system is EXTREMELY abnormal. A large chunk is NPC corps and their cargo contains mission items.
Grarr Dexx Stimulus Rote Kapelle 4	Posted - 2011.04.07 16:54:00 - [22] - Quote In all my years as an online person, player of countless online universes and prowler of many large community forums, I can honestly say that I have NEVER been hacked. Now, this might be a one in a billion fluke, but I'm pretty sure that if you get hacked, the reason is you or your vicinity. As per the topic: Courier bots have been ignored for years. CCP says they are working on catching the people behind the bots, but it's just month after month of empty promises. Mission runners and ratters are just the tip of the ice berg.
Baihuigau The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:01:00 - [23] - Quote I actually like that botter tag across your picture like the most wanted, i think it would be funny.......i still would not mind some looking into if stuff like synergy isbox and pwnboxer are legal to use :)
Messoroz The Penetrators The Laughing Men 9	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:03:00 - [24] - Quote Grarr Dexx wrote: As per the topic: Courier bots have been ignored for years. CCP says they are working on catching the people behind the bots, but it's just month after month of empty promises. Mission runners and ratters are just the tip of the ice berg. Eh, if they were to say remove gate guns in low sec the courier bot problem would be fixed instantly by km whores in frigs.
Soma Khan State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:03:00 - [25] - Quote riverini's propaganda thread got preempted. how sweet
Soma Khan State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:03:00 - [26] - Quote riverini's propaganda thread got preempted. how sweet
KaraStarbuckThrace Proletariat Manifesto 1	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:03:00 - [27] - Quote In reply to what is being said in some of the bots/macro forums. Mostly its people who use these bots saying that threads like these are fail and that we do not understand how they are helping the economics of the game and that eve would fail if the use of bots was stopped. I'm not sure what the guide lines are for actually mentioning the names of these bots so I will go ahead anyway and I am sure CCP will let me know if it is not allowed :) Roidripper is no longer available for download. The last ETA was a few days. The admin/dev of the program called Daredevil comes across quite confident that nothing that is done will stop bots. As for the TinyMiners forums, other then people saying how great it is not much on there to be honest. EvE-Bot forum, again not much being said there either. The general feel appears to be that CCP does not care about botters and that so long as you find a quiet area you will never be bothered. What many of these people who use bots do not realise is that they all require you to run eve in a certain way, i.e windowed mode, certain general and graphic settings, having your in game windows configured in a certain way etc etc. I imagine that all these settings are recorded somewhere and accessible to CCP. Also I must say I love the idea that if you are caught botting that a overlay will appear on your avatar for the duration of your ban so people will know what a loser you are :)
dexington Baconoration 21	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:04:00 - [28] - Quote I has looking at the "hello world" example of eve client code injection, and to me it look like you are deploying the python compiler/parser with the eve client. Is there any reason why you don't deploy you python scripts as intermediate bytecode, and remove the parser/compiler from the deployed version of your python system? While it's not impossible to write bots in python bytecode it would be a lot more time consuming.

CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:04:00 - [29] - Quote Messoroz wrote: Ok, here's a ridiculously better question. Why are courier bots in low sec being rampantly ignored? Here's an example: http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2560 and some more specific km whoring example http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2560 (You need to copy and paste the URLs above because it seems somebody broke the url handler for the redirect and html entified the ampersands like a boss). Having that many haulers being killed in a system is EXTREMELY abnormal. A large chunk is NPC corps and their cargo contains mission items. There's not a whole lot I can respond to with a question like this. I say we're focused on bots and that courier bots are a part of the problem, then you say we're ignoring it. All I can do is say that we're not, though it may take some time for massive results to be evident. I can also say that having haulers killed in a system isn't necessarily an indicator of bot-related activity.


CCP Sreegs C C P C C P Alliance 90	Posted - 2011.04.07 17:05:00 - [30] - Quote Baihuigau wrote: I actually like that botter tag across your picture like the most wanted, i think it would be funny.......i still would not mind some looking into if stuff like synergy isbox and pwnboxer are legal to use :) We'll have an official response on that in the next two weeks or so, probably in the form of a blog.


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