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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jabbrail
Red Scorpion Corp
4
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:16:30 -
[31] - Quote
davet517 wrote:Problem: You're trying to hold more space than you can defend, and in some cases, rent it out, when the mechanics don't allow that anymore.
Solution: Stop that.
There is no "stop" solution for this. Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet. If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim. Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
258
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:17:39 -
[32] - Quote
UAxDEATH wrote:Alliances signed petition
- Alexander Leros, leader Hard Alliance
- Fafer, leader Tr0pa de elite., curator Brothers of Tangra
- Frosch Koenig, leader Synergy of Steel
- Garst Tyrell, leader Triumvirate.
- I Sam, leader Solar Fleet
- Lorianna Lee, leader Dream Fleet
- NullParseException, leader Soviet-Union
- titanokiller, leader Infinity Space.
- tru drksniper, leader Advent of Fate
- UAxDEATH, leader Legion of xXDEATHXx
- Unionn, leader The Afterlife.
- Redwyne Vyruk, manager of BOT and manager of XWX Shadow_of_xXDEATHXx
I'd like to propose some questions to the above alliances:
What type of systems have you been defending? How many pilots are typically active in them, what do they do in those systems, and how far do they have to travel in order to mount a defense? Why do you want to retain those systems?
What type of systems have you been attacking? What made you want to have Sov in those systems?
Your goal should be preventing anything from being reinforced in the first place. If you cannot do that, you do not effectively hold Sov of that system and you deserve to lose it, or get burned out trying to win the capture events. You should stop fighting over those systems you can't hold on to. Getting burned out is your punishment for trying to operate in the Dominion Sov paradigm.
Interceptors are perfectly suited for effecting Aegis Sov - because they only Sov they can challenge for is unoccupied Sov, and unoccupied Sov isn't sovereignty at all. If you want to hold on to a system but can't be bothered to have pilots in it during it's vulnerability window, you don't deserve to hold Sov there.
In NPC null, chasing off a lone Interceptor is incredibly easy. We simply undock. They never stay within 25km, the range of a T1 Entosis. If a hostile Interceptor is Entosing your Outpost, undock. Blap them if they stick around, enjoy the view of the stars for a little bit if fly off and ruin their Entosis cycle. If they're after a TCU or I-hub, simply warp a Navy Vex or Caracal or whatever to it. If this happens in an empty system four jumps away from anybody, you shouldn't have Sov there and it's your own fault you're burning yourself out. You need to adapt. That burnout is Aegis Sov working as intended.
And if that Interceptor is bait for a 100-pilot T3 gang on the other side of a wormhole - there's your large fleet fight you're looking for.
I do agree that there should be a sort of passive regen of defense index, so that simply going after hostile ships without bothering with your own Entosis ships is a valid defense tactic. That way defenders can put all their pilots into mobile offensive ships if they so desire. This passive regen should not happen if there is even a single node being Entosed by an attacker, so that it does not extend the time of an active attack effort.
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meandeane651
Intergalactic Fight Club Gentlemen's.Club
1
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:20:43 -
[33] - Quote
As head diplomat and alliance command for Gentlemen'sClub, we support the reforms proposed by UAxDEATH. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
258
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 22:24:04 -
[34] - Quote
Jabbrail wrote:davet517 wrote:Problem: You're trying to hold more space than you can defend, and in some cases, rent it out, when the mechanics don't allow that anymore.
Solution: Stop that. There is no "stop" solution for this. Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet. If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim. Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.
Multiple systems that are so empty you can't even blap a single t1 frig? Sounds like the very definition of "holding more space than you can defend" to me. Even a lone Skiff can chase off or kill a single t1 frig.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
121
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:25:21 -
[35] - Quote
Jabbrail wrote: There is no "stop" solution for this. Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet. If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim. Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.
There is. Here you go:
1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in. 2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise. 3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them. 4. Profit.
Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you, or holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower are over. Adapt. |
Jabbrail
Red Scorpion Corp
4
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 22:32:11 -
[36] - Quote
davet517 wrote:Jabbrail wrote: There is no "stop" solution for this. Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet. If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim. Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.
There is. Here you go: 1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in. 2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise. 3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them. 4. Profit. Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you. So are your days of holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower. Adapt.
My point is, that I am absolutely for a Good Fight. Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim! I am not against the principles. But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital. WTF?!!!! I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
259
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:36:16 -
[37] - Quote
Jabbrail wrote:Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim!
NO. No! You're still not getting it. Claim [/i]only what you can occupy[/I]. It is easy, by design, to claim something with Aegis Sov yet it's difficult to retain if - unless you live in it.
Quote:But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital.
No big deal - simply attack a target that is vulnerable during your invulnerability window. Then they cannot attack you while you are on the offensive.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
124
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:37:08 -
[38] - Quote
Jabbrail wrote:[quote=davet517]I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden.
You're joking, right? I used to live in your neighborhood, remember? Explain to me how what you are describing is any different from planting an AFK cloaker in a system 23/7. Hide and seek game, right?
If you live in the space, you can deal with the trolls. If you deal with the trolls, you will have no timers. If you have no timers, you will have no problem. The only time you will have to actually defend your sov in a capture event is when someone comes heavy, looking to take it.
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PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
69
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:41:41 -
[39] - Quote
When CCP thinks it's ready, it' done. It's the same thing with the new icons, players just don't like the new icons, what happened ? Absolutely nothing, CCP will not go back to old icons, and so CCP doesn't care about sov anymore, it will stay no matter what we do. |
Marigo Silas
Ad Perpetuam Memoriam Heideran VII Union of 1812
0
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:46:17 -
[40] - Quote
Jabbrail wrote:davet517 wrote:Jabbrail wrote: There is no "stop" solution for this. Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet. If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim. Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.
There is. Here you go: 1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in. 2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise. 3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them. 4. Profit. Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you. So are your days of holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower. Adapt. My point is, that I am absolutely for a Good Fight. Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim! I am not against the principles. But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital. WTF?!!!! I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden.
Well if that one spy drove up in a jeep and you didn't have any soldiers for miles to shoot him, then yeah, that could happen.
You're treating this like dominion sov: ignore the first attack and defend if necessary only at the reinforcement timer. The defender wins by making the attacker do the work 2 or 3 times to win, while the defender only has to show once. You win battles in this system by having lots of buffer systems and exhausting your opponent. It rewards holding more space, if only to make it more painful to attack you.
The goal of fozziesov is for you not to let them reinforce it in the first place. In fozziesov, holding space you don't need, don't regularly use, and don't defend, is DESIGNED to be painful. It's to tell you that you need to downsize a little bit.
You get to select a limited window, when you should have your maximum population on, as the only time you can be attacked. Furthermore, if you are actually using your systems, attackers have to orbit for silly amounts of time, uncontested, to do anything. If you can't deal with it in that amount of time, you probably have too many systems.
Now certain things I could see, certainly fixing any outright bugs like vulnerability timer issues, maybe bumping up the fitting or penalty requirements a *little* bit so that you can clearly counter an entosis ship with its mirror if its undefended. But your post just comes as someone basically wanting the entire basis of the changes reversed, because they liked the way it was. To be expected, since many of the alliances on that list of yours paid for lots of space and/or made lots of money renting it out. This system will no longer work, by design.
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Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
179
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:48:20 -
[41] - Quote
Welcome to 2 months ago, when the rest of null sec realized how bad all these points that you bring up are.
Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
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Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
146
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 22:49:30 -
[42] - Quote
I agree with rusrus
Reguards,
Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
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Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
146
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Posted - 2015.07.31 22:50:54 -
[43] - Quote
Also one stupid mechanic that should be fixed is the ability to buzz out of entosis range and make your link cut off so you can warp away. Much like cloaks show the secondary timer that runs back counter-clockwise to note your recloaking timer, entosis links should have the same thing, although this would be fixed by adding a speed penalty which is exactly what should be done.
Reguards,
Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8
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Zihao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 22:51:19 -
[44] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:"A BLOO BLOO MY RENTAL INCOME!" |
Buhhdust Princess
mind games. Suddenly Spaceships.
9136
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 23:03:37 -
[45] - Quote
Slight alteration:
Make entosis link reduce speed to under 100m/s for ALL ships.
Make ships available to be repaired by logistics ships, or other means.
You will pull more people in to grid, and provoke more fighting!
As attackers of xxdeath's space, I will say that we have done a lot to just harass them, and its worked nicely, but it has been too easy. -Signed |
Johan Civire
Flux Technologies Inc Gentlemen's.Parlor
958
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 23:12:55 -
[46] - Quote
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:I, as BOT manager and XWX manager, completely agree on this thread and i hope CCP will hear our voice.
You think CCP will listen? Think again. The have already change to game to iphone mode. That interface. Please do not let me started with the rest... |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
980
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 23:13:43 -
[47] - Quote
1 5 and 7 maybe some tweaks but over all I support fozzie sov
Not signed
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
123
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 23:16:49 -
[48] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:UAxDEATH wrote:Alliances signed petition
- Alexander Leros, leader Hard Alliance
- Fafer, leader Tr0pa de elite., curator Brothers of Tangra
- Frosch Koenig, leader Synergy of Steel
- Garst Tyrell, leader Triumvirate.
- I Sam, leader Solar Fleet
- Lorianna Lee, leader Dream Fleet
- NullParseException, leader Soviet-Union
- titanokiller, leader Infinity Space.
- tru drksniper, leader Advent of Fate
- UAxDEATH, leader Legion of xXDEATHXx
- Unionn, leader The Afterlife.
- Redwyne Vyruk, manager of BOT and manager of XWX Shadow_of_xXDEATHXx
I'd like to propose some questions to the above alliances: What type of systems have you been defending? How many pilots are typically active in them, what do they do in those systems, and how far do they have to travel in order to mount a defense? Why do you want to retain those systems? What type of systems have you been attacking? What made you want to have Sov in those systems? Your goal should be preventing anything from being reinforced in the first place. If you cannot do that, you do not effectively hold Sov of that system and you deserve to lose it, or get burned out trying to win the capture events. You should stop fighting over those systems you can't hold on to. Getting burned out is your punishment for trying to operate in the Dominion Sov paradigm. Interceptors are perfectly suited for effecting Aegis Sov - because the only Sov they can challenge for is unoccupied Sov, and unoccupied Sov isn't sovereignty at all. If you want to hold on to a system but can't be bothered to have pilots in it during its vulnerability window, you don't deserve to hold Sov there. In NPC null, chasing off a lone Interceptor is incredibly easy. We simply undock. They never stay within 25km, the range of a T1 Entosis. If a hostile Interceptor is Entosing your Outpost, undock. Blap them if they stick around, enjoy the view of the stars for a little bit if fly off and ruin their Entosis cycle. If they're after a TCU or I-hub, simply warp a Navy Vex or Caracal or whatever to it. If this happens in an empty system four jumps away from anybody, you shouldn't have Sov there and it's your own fault you're burning yourself out. You need to adapt. That burnout is Aegis Sov working as intended. And if that Interceptor is bait for a 100-pilot T3 gang on the other side of a wormhole - there's your large fleet fight you're looking for. I do agree that there should be a sort of passive regen of defense index, so that simply going after hostile ships without bothering with your own Entosis ships is a valid defense tactic. That way defenders can put all their pilots into mobile offensive ships if they so desire. This passive regen should not happen if there is even a single node being Entosed by an attacker, so that it does not extend the time of an active attack effort.
Yep... We are still cleaning up after domi sovGǪ thousands of unused systems all over eve that had sov the day fozisov kicked in that needs purging of sov as thereGÇÖs no other way of doing it now. People are trying to defend these unused systems for some random resign.. There are no real wars going on. No one is actively trying to take over some one elseGÇÖs space so they can live there. All thatGÇÖs going on at the moment is a clean-up of dead systems and trolling to try and make people fight.
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
123
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Posted - 2015.07.31 23:20:14 -
[49] - Quote
Fafer wrote: and its been on Duality, where some of the people mentioned won the sov competition
We won by dropping titans on everyone making 70% of the people doing it quit in the 1st week and then NAPing the other 30%
Not one single alliance in this game has any really proof of anything other than wield speculation on what might happen, as not one single active alliance has done anything of note with the new system to come up with any sort of evidence showing anythingGǪ when a few alliances have had a few wars and real fights over systems then maybe we can start coming up with what the problems areGǪ the only problems any one knows about so far is everyone hates 4k/s+ entotsis Interceptors and itGÇÖs a point in the ass to do the nodes in systems you donGÇÖt even live in. thatGÇÖs it thatGÇÖs all any one really knows as thatGÇÖs as far as any one has really got with the systemGǪ no one has tried to actively take anything people use from any one yet.
UAxDEATH wrote:Solution: reduction of beacons (nodes) , to about 1-3 per system, which are located next to a contested structure.
The whole point of the changes was to stop someone dropping 1000 people into one system or in to very few grids and try to fight. The point was to make every one split up hence nodes all over and you needing 10 of them to win so you cannot just sit 500 people on one grid and 500 on another and win. Just having 1-3 nodes that you have to get is just going back to slowcat fleet on node 1 all supers sat on node 2 and all your blues sat on node 3 and never having to move or do anything Yes having 10 nodes you have to defend is hard if you live 10jumps away but itGÇÖs not hard if you live in the constellation and were able to stop them RFing your stuff in your own prime time before it even gets to the nodes. Most of the time even if they do entosis your stuff there is no real rush to do the nodes if the attackers donGÇÖt come back.. you can just continue using the systems and slowly do a few nodes per hour on alts.
Also CCP donGÇÖt like the big fights as it kills there servers |
tekmin
hahaha JC
4
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 23:51:56 -
[50] - Quote
UAxDEATH wrote:Introduction Problem: structure that exits reinforce timer, doesnGÇÖt regenerate back, which in the old game mechanics served as a defensive mechanism against sov trolling. Attacked systems spam node beacons, which can last forever, which is discrimination against sovereignty owners - they must defend their space despite the fact that no one will show up to contest it.Solution: a new type of status - defended. If the nodes are not being captured by any attackers during contested campaign for a period of time dependent of defence index, then structures change from contested to defended.
see bold.
no1 shows up to defend but you want to keep it?
if no1 shows up to defend it means you dont want it bad enough... |
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
125
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Posted - 2015.07.31 23:56:54 -
[51] - Quote
tekmin wrote:UAxDEATH wrote:Introduction Problem: structure that exits reinforce timer, doesnGÇÖt regenerate back, which in the old game mechanics served as a defensive mechanism against sov trolling. Attacked systems spam node beacons, which can last forever, which is discrimination against sovereignty owners - they must defend their space despite the fact that no one will show up to contest it.Solution: a new type of status - defended. If the nodes are not being captured by any attackers during contested campaign for a period of time dependent of defence index, then structures change from contested to defended. see bold. no1 shows up to defend but you want to keep it? if no1 shows up to defend it means you dont want it bad enough...
And if a whole alliance cannot muster up 5 alts in there semi prime time to afk 2 nodes each at 12mins per node (i.e 24mins per afk alt) they don't deserve sov. |
Kalen Pavle
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
54
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Posted - 2015.08.01 00:06:27 -
[52] - Quote
The fundamental problem of fozziesov is as follows:
It's not fun. It's not fun to attack a 1x system. It's not fun to attack a 6x system. It's not fun to defend any system.
This is a game. It should be fun. Instead I spend my time doing sov related stuff playing other games. Do you really want a game where the primary nullsec experience is alt-tabbing and playing another game? |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
126
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 00:20:40 -
[53] - Quote
Kalen Pavle wrote:The fundamental problem of fozziesov is as follows:
It's not fun. It's not fun to attack a 1x system. It's not fun to attack a 6x system. It's not fun to defend any system.
This is a game. It should be fun. Instead I spend my time doing sov related stuff playing other games. Do you really want a game where the primary nullsec experience is alt-tabbing and playing another game?
that will not happen if you stop attacking empty space.
even a 6x system is now quicker to take than in domi sov... its just your trying to use domi sov tactics and ships to do it. |
xxLATVIANxx
Russian Thunder Squad The Afterlife.
25
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Posted - 2015.08.01 00:26:05 -
[54] - Quote
I was looking forward to fozzie sov, but last 2 weeks been most boring in 7 years playing eve. |
Kalen Pavle
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
55
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Posted - 2015.08.01 00:27:05 -
[55] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Kalen Pavle wrote:The fundamental problem of fozziesov is as follows:
It's not fun. It's not fun to attack a 1x system. It's not fun to attack a 6x system. It's not fun to defend any system.
This is a game. It should be fun. Instead I spend my time doing sov related stuff playing other games. Do you really want a game where the primary nullsec experience is alt-tabbing and playing another game? that will not happen if you stop attacking empty space. even a 6x system is now quicker to take than in domi sov... its just your trying to use domi sov tactics and ships to do it.
Except we're not. Orbiting nodes on alts is not fun. Orbiting them on mains is less fun. It's only quicker when you consider the additional timer. Actual time commitments are immensely longer than in dominion sov. |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6716
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 00:28:06 -
[56] - Quote
Kalen Pavle wrote:The fundamental problem of fozziesov is as follows:
It's not fun. It's not fun to attack a 1x system. It's not fun to attack a 6x system. It's not fun to defend any system.
This is a game. It should be fun. Instead I spend my time doing sov related stuff playing other games. Do you really want a game where the primary nullsec experience is alt-tabbing and playing another game?
Isn't that what it already was?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Kalen Pavle
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
55
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Posted - 2015.08.01 00:44:52 -
[57] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Kalen Pavle wrote:The fundamental problem of fozziesov is as follows:
It's not fun. It's not fun to attack a 1x system. It's not fun to attack a 6x system. It's not fun to defend any system.
This is a game. It should be fun. Instead I spend my time doing sov related stuff playing other games. Do you really want a game where the primary nullsec experience is alt-tabbing and playing another game? Isn't that what it already was?
Previously through judicious use of capital ships you could reduce the boredom to mere minutes. Now the boredom is a predetermined amount of orbiting nodes playing world of warships. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
126
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 00:47:43 -
[58] - Quote
Kalen Pavle wrote: Except we're not. Orbiting nodes on alts is not fun. Orbiting them on mains is less fun. It's only quicker when you consider the additional timer. Actual time commitments are immensely longer than in dominion sov.
I would ask how many systems are you taking to live in? tri has 1400 people in 22 corps. so how much space do you need? if you are taking more than you need i would have to ask why? the whole sov system is designed to make it a bit easier to carve out your own home.. but much much harder to take and hold more than you need so why are you trying to take more than you could possibly need even if you were 2x the size? |
Kalen Pavle
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
55
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 00:52:19 -
[59] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Kalen Pavle wrote: Except we're not. Orbiting nodes on alts is not fun. Orbiting them on mains is less fun. It's only quicker when you consider the additional timer. Actual time commitments are immensely longer than in dominion sov.
I would ask how many systems are you taking to live in? tri has 1400 people in 22 corps. so how much space do you need? if you are taking more than you need i would have to ask why? the whole sov system is designed to make it a bit easier to carve out your own home.. but much much harder to take and hold more than you need so why are you trying to take more than you could possibly need even if you were 2x the size?
It's not about the sovereignty, or holding the sov, it's about getting people to fight. As it is now, the most effective way to get your opponent to go away is not to fight them, it's to force them to afk on nodes with alts while the rest of the fleet says '**** this, i'm going back to [insert staging system here].'
Defense now is about stationary objects in space, which don't shoot back, which use boredom as their primary tool of dissuading the enemy from engaging. |
Nituspar
Shiva Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2015.08.01 00:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
As an FC that's currently abusing all of these mechanics to hit back at an opponent, I fully agree with the need for all these changes and points that Uaxdeath brings up.
Being able to set entire regions on fire and making defenders have to deal with thousands of nodes due to 20-50 trollceptors sent from several regions away, without any intention or commitment to taking the sov we're attacking, is horrible gameplay for everyone involved. It just happens to be 5-10 times more horrible for the defender than it is for the attacker.
The system is currently extremely broken, and the current consensus between a lot of groups seems to be that the best way to deal with Fozziesov in its current state is to not care about it at all. |
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