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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Runawaypally
The Stampede.
1
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Posted - 2011.12.08 12:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Years of promising to talk/comment on FW with nothing produced. Other topics are on here for 2 hours and have a Dev responce. WTF?  |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
491
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 13:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Runawaypally wrote:Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
267
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Posted - 2011.12.08 13:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
The topic won't help you at all.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Beaches
3
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Posted - 2011.12.08 13:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
You got a bunch of military uniforms in the NEX shop. Didn't notice?
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
443
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Posted - 2011.12.08 13:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
At least we got a roundtable dedicated to FW at the last Fanfest!
Oh wait...
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Whyumadtho
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2011.12.08 14:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Working as intended! |
Denidil
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
230
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Posted - 2011.12.08 14:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
0/10
Bored in 0.0?-á reset all standings.
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Ujagar Sommdax
JotunHeim Hird
Moon Warriors
1
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Posted - 2011.12.08 15:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
I love u interweb |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
16
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Posted - 2011.12.08 15:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
whne ccp says they will do somthing, what they mean is they will do somting in direction relation to how many players are using it.
FW = a few 1000 players, which is barly a few % overall, so dont expect a patch as awesome as this latest one on just fw, expect somthing only a few % as good :) |
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CCP Solomon
C C P
C C P Alliance
96
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Posted - 2011.12.08 15:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.
Associate Technical Producer - Carbon |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
442
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 15:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.
Yeah it's like hybrids rebalance, after so much discussion and players feedback it appeard that they are ment to not exist on current pvp environement other than gank miners in belts just like before, the best way to improve hybrids is to give minmatar ammo some love.
Thank you so much |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
301
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution. Yeah it's like hybrids rebalance, after so much discussion and players feedback it appeard that they are ment to not exist on current pvp environement other than gank miners in belts just like before, the best way to improve hybrids is to give minmatar ammo some love. Thank you so much
The longer you stall, the more resistance there will be for balance, as ppl crosstrained to Winmatar already.
Same applies to FW. People who "disagree" are merely those that don't want to see it viable. Eve has a culture of "it's fine if it doesn't directly help me, screwing someone else is more important." |
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution. .
Normally when any new mechanic is introduced in a game there is a 'vision' of what the 'desired outcome' would be. Study the outcome after the fact and compare it to the vision, if the vision isnt realised, adjust... test.. repeat.
There must have been an official CCP objective or vision with FW when it was introduced, I remember when it was released CCP stating many times that the system implemented then was "just the beggining".. but was abandoned.
The OP, appears to me to be complaining that over the years you've never even stated what the 'ultimate vision' of FW ever was! now it seems your asking the players what they want.
There is obviously a difference between what players are wanting and expecting compared to what CCP are wanting and expecting, and thats why its taking to damn long.
How about starting with what CCP's original objective and vision of FW was? and starting a proper discussion. You just stated that you were involved in a brain storming session... why not make a dev blog discussing all the points of views, intentions on original visions of FW, how its changed... instead of all these splinterd threads. Hell, why not even make a completly different forum section dedicated to it?
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oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD
Vanguard Ascendants
7
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Runawaypally wrote:Years of promising to talk/comment on FW with nothing produced. Other topics are on here for 2 hours and have a Dev responce. WTF?
years of promising = working as intended
Other topics are on here for 2 hours and have a Dev responce. WTF?= be happy and you will get an response in minutes |
flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
43
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.
I am not an FW player but this is kinda ironic solomon.
They have been raising their concerns for years now without any changes ... THEY have been a part of the solution. |
Runawaypally
The Stampede.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 16:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Snowman wrote:CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution. . Normally when any new mechanic is introduced in a game there is a 'vision' of what the 'desired outcome' would be. Study the outcome after the fact and compare it to the vision, if the vision isnt realised, adjust... test.. repeat. There must have been an official CCP objective or vision with FW when it was introduced, I remember when it was released CCP stating many times that the system implemented then was "just the beggining".. but was abandoned. The OP, appears to me to be complaining that over the years you've never even stated what the 'ultimate vision' of FW ever was! now it seems your asking the players what they want. There is obviously a difference between what players are wanting and expecting compared to what CCP are wanting and expecting, and thats why its taking to damn long. How about starting with what CCP's original objective and vision of FW was? and starting a proper discussion. You just stated that you were involved in a brain storming session... why not make a dev blog discussing all the points of views, intentions on original visions of FW, how its changed... instead of all these splinterd threads. Hell, why not even make a completly different forum section dedicated to it?
This is what I was trying to say, but lack of time and coherant train of thought so early in the morning derailed my brain.
What did you plan on it being and what have you observed that has kept it from there?
Why havent you at least put out that blog that was promised after the gaffe with the round table?
Hell you put it in the expansion notes and yet the only change was the plexing mechanics that still does no discernable thing beyond changin a single word on your screen. Oh and the color on the map if you turn that option on.
I understand why you dont want to lock ppl out from their stuff if they loose occupancy while away, but thems the dice. You gambled by placing your stuff in a hanger vulnerable to enemy control, you should loose access until you get the system back, thus providing incentive to worry/bother with plexing.
And yes please create a faction warfare specific section, the warfare topic doesnt cover it enough. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
613
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:whne ccp says they will do somthing, what they mean is they will do somting in direction relation to how many players are using it.
FW = a few 1000 players, which is barly a few % overall, so dont expect a patch as awesome as this latest one on just fw, expect somthing only a few % as good :)
I disagree completely. POS's are used universally throughout EvE, and we've only seen minor changes over a period of years time. Nullsec soveriegnty is pretty borked, and has been since Dominion was released without further polish, and those changes have left many more thousands of players frustrated and / or bored, and that hasn't been enough to enact change.
Speaking as one of the principle promoters of Faction Warfare here on the forums, I'll simply say my interest in improving the feature goes beyond making things more enjoyable for the few of us that stil participate. Faction Warfare could fundamentally revive lowsec as a whole, inviting more players to the region and giving all the various pirate alliances (which likely outnumber the militias in number) much more activity to feed off of.
With increased FW activity, and a spike in corresponding activity, there will once again be a huge sector of EvE space where subcap warfare and small gang PvP thrives once again. Players everywhere are thirsty for more of this, especially in the wake of Supercapitals, and people growing old of laggy 500-man battleship fleets where you don't make a difference, battles are won by attrition, and once primaried there's nothing you can do to prevent your ship from being lost as quick as a frigate.
Small changes have (dare I say) a "butterfly effect" on the rest of the game. Look at the release of POCO's - a small tweak in planetary interaction (a feature panned by many players are boring as hell) has single-handedly sparked a huge increase in PvP activity surrounding lucrative planets.
We can't just look at a feature in isolation and decide whether it has intrinsic merit outside of its context in the EvE universe. Developers and the players involved in feedback (CSM included) should view everything in the light of the surrounding game play areas it intersects, and see the full impact that something like a Faction Warfare revamp could have. |
Runawaypally
The Stampede.
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.
Thank you for responding, I do appreciate it.
|
Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
41
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Posted - 2011.12.08 17:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've participated in FW a few times, most notably right after it came out, and again last time they even addressed anything to do with FW and put in the FW LP store and such.
Honestly, it's a joke the way it is.
What do FW participants fight over? Nothing except "claiming" systems for your faction, which functionally does nothing.
Who can join FW? Literally anyone, and that's the problem. There are far too many spies in FW to be able to run fleets. I've been on both ends. It's un-fun when you know what your enemy is doing exactly and can counter them instantly, and it's un-fun when you're getting 0wned in the face because you're being instantly countered by an enemy FC who has a spy in his opponents fleet.
It's pretty sad really, because FW COULD be one of the major draws towards lowsec that is currently lacking. If only there were tangible rewards for FW PvPers, and CCP did away with NPC militia corporations, FW could be a great thing. It might actually become a place for newer players to learn meaningful PvP skills, and a place where veteran players could still find some decent PvP without all the risks of nullsec PvP.
Or CCP could just go on pretending FW doesn't exist. I don't care how many backroom conversations you have about it in Iceland. If it doesn't make it onto Tranquility, it's just a lot of hot air being blown up our collective playerbase asses. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2011.12.08 17:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.
Allow me to translate these 'sage' words:
"Soon(tm)"
This comment, if brought to it's ultimate logical conclusion, means that the more people that care the longer it will take. Ultimately as Y number of people increases the smaller the chance of a consensus and a tangible solution ( X ). However, conversely as Y approaches 0 or, in other words, the less people that care, the solution ( X ) also approaches infinity. So, in the end, my friends, FW will be fixed in approximately never.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Derus Grobb
Iron Oxide Institute
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
There are hundreds of pages of player feedback on FW. CCP just need to sort through and actually implement some of it. |
Captain Alcatraz
Douchingtons
Shadow Cartel
46
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Posted - 2011.12.08 17:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
CCP Solomon wrote:Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.
eternal trap |
Written Word
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
163
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Unless Dust is going to fix FW, don't hold your breath for seeing anything for FW in 2012. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
443
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Captain Alcatraz wrote:CCP Solomon wrote:The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.
CCP Solomon wrote:Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution. eternal trap
It's the fabled wisdom of Solomon at work.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
615
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Derus Grobb wrote:There are hundreds of pages of player feedback on FW. CCP just need to sort through and actually implement some of it.
Which is exactly what's been going on.
I understand everyone's frustration with FW improvement delays, no one wants to see this fixed more than I. The fact remains that CCP has admitted to not working on spaceship features as much as they needed to, spending over a year to develop a dead-end feature with Incarna. Now that the company as been restructured and resouces reallocated, we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the future holds for EvE proper. Unclogging the Incarna hairball has released a glut of new features, updates, and improvements, and there simply is a massive backlog of features to plow through. At least its all underway and at record speed.
I can tell you for certain that the CSM is fully aware of the full range of FW issues (I've personally spoken with many of them to oversee that) , and is discussing them with CCP. CCP also is fully aware of what needs fixing, since most of the main FW issues have been on record in the official backlog ratified years ago. I truly believe, from everyone I've spoken to - CSM and CCP alike - that it is not a matter of if Faction Warfare will be improved and updated, but when. All I can do is share my experience, whether anyone is encouraged by that or not.
As for what CCP's own vision is for Faction Warfare - that is a fantastic question, and one I'd love to hear an answer for. Unfortunately, its up to the CSM to share what they've heard during the high-level discussions they're having with CCP at the summit that is underway as we speak. And if they're unable to answer this question to our satisfaction, the only way we'll learn that vision will be for all those interested in Faction Warfare to unite behind a candidate in the upcoming elections that will ask those questions. |
Murashu
Phoibe Enterprises
Black Watch.
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Diagoras wrote:I had forgotten about the militias/FW....
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Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
268
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Okay, i'll bite to the dev post.
I never was a roleplayer before EvE and i actually have never ever played a MMORPG before EvE,
simply because EvE is the only real MMORPG out there.
The first time i heard about factional warfare, it got me quite exited.
FW is all about role play and i thought: "Hey ... why not ... sounds great!"
And then i realized ... "wtf? Why should i do this?"
The ranks are worthless, have no meaning and can be too easily obtained.
Winning a system does not have any impact whatsoever.
Given that it's EvE, this is a major flaw.
FW seems to only be about small scale PvP, which for itself is okay,
but on the other hand simply is not enough given the topic of having
FACTIONS COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER.
Of course, many will consider FW the holy grail of small scale PvP
and i accept (and i'm glad) that they have fun with that, but FW could/SHOULD be so much more.
If there's no way to be a "hero", then it lacks intention to play it.
One could have more kills than others, but that's only something to brag about.
It does not have any impact. There's no "bigger scheme" that rewards this.
If there's no way that my own faction can stand out compared to the others,
then it lacks intention to play it.
Of course, there's plenty of gray between all that black and white,
but that's simply how i see it. Statistically speaking,
there's plenty of others who see it the same way as i do in one form or the other.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
615
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 18:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Murashu wrote:CCP Diagoras wrote:I had forgotten about the militias/FW....
Can you reference the source of this comment? I'm very curious. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
615
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 19:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Also - Solstice, you hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyone could have summarized the Faction Warfare situation better than you did.
This is why I urge players and developers alike to not use current participation metrics to evaluate whether Faction Warfare is worth iterating on. So many like yourself have come in and said "whats the point?" and left, with arguably good cause. All those that have walked away from feature stand to benefit from its revision, not just those of us that left for whom the killmail race and abundant small gang pew pew are entertainment enough to keep fighting amongst each other.
Essentially FW is alive not through any form of central driving mechanic, but rather the sheer force of will amongst a dedicated community who believe too strongly in the potential of CCP's original concept to give up advocating on its behalf. The fact that most players would rather participate in other activities with greater large-scale impact should be just as much impetus to improve the Faction Warfare system so that it, too, lives up to the EvE standard of dynamic and meaningful gameplay. |
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
or rather just consolidate all the feedback in one place, and not just one thread.... a seperate forum is definatly whats needed. Even after any major revamp, like a CAOD but just for fw.
I just dont beleive that the problem takes longer because more people care... usually when you run any test then more results means better averages that are more acurate and MORE common ground can be established.
Start with the common ground... and the common ground that everyone agree's on is more reward, more 'reason' to do it, and not just farm LP to spend on crappy LP store.
Rewards that matter like acheivments, bragging rights.. not every reward is just about cash. start with that, the rest can be hammerd out from there when people actually start playing FW
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