Originally by: Gallente Information Ministry

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A Myrmidon pilot with 5 heavy drones is a bad pilot, someone who dies to him can only be worse.

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Originally by: jbob2000

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"Gallente and Amarr Encryption method skills have been added to the market."

Weren't people spending like 250mil on these pre-patch? Didn't you just kinda screw lots of people over with that?

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Originally by: Kaaii

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Originally by: jbob2000

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"Gallente and Amarr Encryption method skills have been added to the market."

Weren't people spending like 250mil on these pre-patch? Didn't you just kinda screw lots of people over with that?

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Was this a CCP forced auto buy function.......or did they press the buy order on thier own....

m'kay

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Originally by: Yarek Balear

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Again on applying this patch to my build I get the error stating:

"Your eve client installation may have modified, damaged or corrupt files. Please re-install the game client"

This is exactly the same error I got when I applied the original revelations patch in the first place. Can someone have a look at the patch deployment package, because it appears to be screwing up big time.

In the meantime, I don't appear to be able to download the full client from the website yet - can you give me a URL to that - guess I'll have to go through another three attempts at d'ling the full client once more, since patching doesn't work for me.

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Originally by: Yarek Balear

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Again on applying this patch to my build I get the error stating:

"Your eve client installation may have modified, damaged or corrupt files. Please re-install the game client"

This is exactly the same error I got when I applied the original revelations patch in the first place. Can someone have a look at the patch deployment package, because it appears to be screwing up big time.

In the meantime, I don't appear to be able to download the full client from the website yet - can you give me a URL to that - guess I'll have to go through another three attempts at d'ling the full client once more, since patching doesn't work for me.

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Originally by: Wrangler

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It's a neuralizer.

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Originally by: solidshot

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Erm Rd agents didnt Oveur state that they would be reseeded in todays patch? They havn't been.

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Originally by: kieron

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As the Message of the Day states, Tranquility was suffering from cascading node deaths and needs to be rebooted.

The slow response time of markets, character and/or character sheet loads, chat windows, etc. can be attributed to the server responding to the log-in requests and new patch code.

While the node deaths are not a normal part of the patch deployment routine, the in-game lag that some players are experiencing is a normal part of patch day. Playability will improve as the server stabilizes.

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Originally by: T'Renn

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LOL great patch. I was trying to kill a couple gate rats before class, started approaching, unleashed my drones, and then -poof!- CTD.

Now I can't get on. Looks like I lost my drones. What's worse, is when I come back from class and try to log on my poor domi may or may not warp right into a gatecamp in the middle of 0.0. Fun.

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Still missing the Recon Probe Launcher I think... ?

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Still missing the Recon Probe Launcher I think... ?

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Originally by: Shemar

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So:

- Drones still ignore orders or change targets randomly?
- There is still no way to tell which wrecks have loot and which haven't?

I am not being sarcastic (yet), I am honestly asking, as I won't be able to test for myself for several hours.

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Originally by: Shemar

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At least kieron said on another thread that there is the intention to fix that and make the icon differentiate between wrecks with loot and wrecks without. Given that there are still people that can't even play, I guess we can be patient on that, and settle for the intention to fix it, for now

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Originally by: Shemar

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- There is still no way to tell which wrecks have loot and which haven't?

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Originally by: Azrael Maxim

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Contracts, nice work, sorting is in, 'simple view' 4tw.

One thing which might improve this even more, show what page you are on.

Example: you are viewing region the forge looking at page 4 of 16.

Anyways, thumbs up for getting this in so soon.

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Originally by: Tiuwaz

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on the login screen you could read "we just had a possible breakthrough, stay tuned!"


was that meant literally? as in you broke through something? hope it wasnt something too expensive

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Originally by: RobW1

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Edited by: RobW1 on 05/12/2006 18:21:20
Drones are still behaving erratically.. 4 times I told my 5 drones to go and attack a cruise, and one randomly wanders off to attack a BS instead. I order them to attack the cruiser again, it approaches the cruiser, then decides to go back to the BS.

Fourth attempt it seemed to "stick" to the cruiser.

And still it wanders off!

It wasn't this bad BEFORE this latest patch!

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Originally by: breadcat

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Drones (ogre I) are still bugged. I order them to fly to the npc, when they arrive, they stay there like 5 seconds and choose some other targets.

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Originally by: solidshot

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Originally by: Shemar

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- There is still no way to tell which wrecks have loot and which haven't?

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yes you can when a wreck is opened it turns from white to a grey colour, unfortunately they are very similar colours

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Originally by: Tuco Santeriia

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3) Do not spawn a wreck if there is no chance to salvage any materials from it. You never used to spawn empty jetcans after a ship exploded - why spawn a wreck if there's nothing inside it? If there is nothing to be salvaged at any skill level, simply do not spawn a wreck.

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Originally by: Inspiration

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On average i get twice as much salvaged materials then before todays patch, which is a major increase imho. To th epoint i think its being overdone. Its new, give it all time, let the market settle, then tweak it!

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Originally by: HiroAntagonist

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Originally by: Inspiration

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On average i get twice as much salvaged materials then before todays patch, which is a major increase imho. To th epoint i think its being overdone. Its new, give it all time, let the market settle, then tweak it!

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Yes, let's go back to where it takes 30 straight hours to salvaging to make a single T1 rig, that'll be great!

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Originally by: Katril Wolf

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Originally by: Tuco Santeriia

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3) Do not spawn a wreck if there is no chance to salvage any materials from it. You never used to spawn empty jetcans after a ship exploded - why spawn a wreck if there's nothing inside it? If there is nothing to be salvaged at any skill level, simply do not spawn a wreck.

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Simple explanation for that one.
What salvage you get from a wreck is not decided till whoever successfully salvages it.
Since it won't always be the one who creates the wreck who salvages it. Think PvP. Probably the winner will salvage both their ships and their enemies, and they want their salvage skill to determine what they get out of a salvaged ship. Not the persons salvage skill that created the wreck.

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Originally by: Tuco Santeriia

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Edited by: Tuco Santeriia on 05/12/2006 20:58:44
DECEMBER 5 POST PATCH SALVAGE ATTEMPT:

On the Level 2 mission "Smuggler Interception" (which may be a new mission, since I have never run it previously, and since it does not appear on www.eveinfo.com), I had the skill Salvaging 3 and used 6 Salvage Units on 18 wrecks of Sansha pirate spacecraft.

While 0 attempts were outright failures, 11 were successful salvage attempts that yielded no materials. However, there were 7 successful salvage attempts which yielded the following items:

2 Armor Plates
2 Contaminated Nanite Compounds
1 Charred Micro Circuit
1 Defective Current Pump
1 Tripped Power Circuit

Those results mirror other salvage attempts from after Revelations was deployed but before today's patch. See the details in this thread:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=434162

This indicates that no changes have been made to the drop rate of salvage materials.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

CONCLUSION:

The patch is a serious disappointment as far as salvage is concerned. Other than a cosmetic change that shows which wrecks have been looted, there appears to be no discernible improvement to salvaging overall. The salvage system as-is is still a tedious bore - it took roughly 4 times as long to salvage the wrecks as it did to complete the mission. Moreover, the drop rate for salvage materials is appallingly low. The price of rig BPOs - about 130k - indicates that these are supposed to be common enhancements, as do rig slots on T1 ships. However, the drop rate simply won't be able to meet the supply required to make that a reality. As it stands, I sold some of the items listed above for 1.6 million ISK *each*, and roughly 300 of them are needed for a given T1 rig. When will anyone ever use these on a T1 ship, or any ship exposed to serious combat?


SUGGESTIONS:

1) Increase the salvage material drop rate
2) Create a single command that loots and activates all Salvage Units at one time. This will eliminate about 4-10 mouseclicks for each wreck to be salvaged. In the alternative, bring back jetcan drops for loot and distinguish them from wrecks for salvaging. A container should only exist if there is something inside it.
3) Do not spawn a wreck if there is no chance to salvage any materials from it. You never used to spawn empty jetcans after a ship exploded - why spawn a wreck if there's nothing inside it? If there is nothing to be salvaged at any skill level, simply do not spawn a wreck.

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Originally by: Mad Mackem

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Edited by: Mad Mackem on 05/12/2006 21:38:27
Hey Dev's,

First off keep up the good work and ignore the numpty's.

A liitle bug though, Evemail appears to be borked, when i reply to a mail i cant type in the box or can only type 1 line.

Sorry if you already knew about this.

Regards

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Originally by: Mr Xzomo

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2. the grapihics around the planets eges is very bright, and also flickering
- Link to image

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Originally by: Tuco Santeriia

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Edited by: Tuco Santeriia on 05/12/2006 20:58:44
DECEMBER 5 POST PATCH SALVAGE ATTEMPT:

On the Level 2 mission "Smuggler Interception" (which may be a new mission, since I have never run it previously, and since it does not appear on www.eveinfo.com), I had the skill Salvaging 3 and used 6 Salvage Units on 18 wrecks of Sansha pirate spacecraft.

While 0 attempts were outright failures, 11 were successful salvage attempts that yielded no materials. However, there were 7 successful salvage attempts which yielded the following items:

2 Armor Plates
2 Contaminated Nanite Compounds
1 Charred Micro Circuit
1 Defective Current Pump
1 Tripped Power Circuit

Those results mirror other salvage attempts from after Revelations was deployed but before today's patch. See the details in this thread:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=434162

This indicates that no changes have been made to the drop rate of salvage materials.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

CONCLUSION:

The patch is a serious disappointment as far as salvage is concerned. Other than a cosmetic change that shows which wrecks have been looted, there appears to be no discernible improvement to salvaging overall. The salvage system as-is is still a tedious bore - it took roughly 4 times as long to salvage the wrecks as it did to complete the mission. Moreover, the drop rate for salvage materials is appallingly low. The price of rig BPOs - about 130k - indicates that these are supposed to be common enhancements, as do rig slots on T1 ships. However, the drop rate simply won't be able to meet the supply required to make that a reality. As it stands, I sold some of the items listed above for 1.6 million ISK *each*, and roughly 300 of them are needed for a given T1 rig. When will anyone ever use these on a T1 ship, or any ship exposed to serious combat?


SUGGESTIONS:

1) Increase the salvage material drop rate
2) Create a single command that loots and activates all Salvage Units at one time. This will eliminate about 4-10 mouseclicks for each wreck to be salvaged. In the alternative, bring back jetcan drops for loot and distinguish them from wrecks for salvaging. A container should only exist if there is something inside it.
3) Do not spawn a wreck if there is no chance to salvage any materials from it. You never used to spawn empty jetcans after a ship exploded - why spawn a wreck if there's nothing inside it? If there is nothing to be salvaged at any skill level, simply do not spawn a wreck.

---

Originally by: Pooh Flinger

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I am HERE!

And I am the only voice that matters! (to me at least)

Teh drones are borked. Don't know who tested the critters but they might just be worse off now than pre-patch.


Here is what I "think" is causing the "OMG!! My drones are not attacking anything!" issue.

First off, ya launch drones and tell them to attack target "A". They do just that. Once target "A" is dead they then go into "auto" mode and find something hostile to kill on their own. That's cool and highly acceptable.

I then decide that Target "C" is really laying the smack-down on thick so I want them to disengage all their current randomly chosen targets to now attack target "C". Just like good little drones, they all disengage and start on their way to target "C".

This is where several problems seem to occur.

1. Only some of the drones will actually make it to target "C". Some will peel off and start up their "random" kill routine again.

2. All of the drones actually make it to Target "C" but for whatever reason are NOT doing a bit of damage to that target. My guess is, the drones are orbiting target "C" but still targetting and shooting at whatever target they had randomly chosen before being sent to Target "C". The only way to fix this (that I know of) is to recall them and deploy them. This seems to wipe their old targeting data from memory and they will actually attack target "C" now.

3. They all will absolutely refuse to attack target "C". This usually happens to me when I need them to travel huge distances (40-60km) to attack a diferent target that is well within both targetting range and drone range. (current drone range is 80km and targeting is 90km in a myrmidon)

Currently, the best thing to do with drones to prevent the above is to let them do their own thing. I LOVE the fact that drones have enough AI to attack hostiles and PRAY that you do not make them as dumb as fighters. But on the same note, they should at least obey orders "most" of the time.

Your favorite Flinger,
Pooh

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Originally by: Andrue

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Corp and Local are back but now player channels seem to be broken.

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Originally by: Trishar

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t?


SUGGESTIONS:

1) Increase the salvage material drop rate

3) Do not spawn a wreck if there is no chance to salvage any materials from it. You never used to spawn empty jetcans after a ship exploded - why spawn a wreck if there's nothing inside it? If there is nothing to be salvaged at any skill level, simply do not spawn a wreck.

---

Originally by: Shemar

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I would also like an answer from the devs regarding the ease with which missions can be disrupted and/or ruined. Let's start with the simple things:

Is this the way CCP plans to let things be? Is the ease of mission griefing a feature or just another failure to grap the consequences of major changes?

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Originally by: Yoshi Takeda

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Only one thing to fix this ....
make the mission runners (and his gang/fleet) invisible to scans or it become useless to run missions anywhere.

This is the last enjoyment if you are more interested in PvE than PvP and this way you clearly nerfed it.

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Originally by: Hamfast

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On the drones, I have not tested this, but I am thinking of doing a mission, not targeting anything, and seeing if my drones will kill everything for me... I do know that rats were being killed almost as fast as I could target them last night.

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Originally by: Shemar

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Umm... then why do you insist on going there?

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Originally by: LivithiuM

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EVE client close after splash screen.

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Quote:

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To bring Recon Probe Launcher I online requires 220000.0 cpu units, but only 375.0 of the 375.0 units that your computer produces are still available.

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Originally by: sabre

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Interdictors Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff and 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level

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Originally by: eris

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Interdictors Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff and 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level

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Originally by: heretic

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Interdictors Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile EM damage and 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level

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Originally by: flycatcher

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Interdictors Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage and 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level

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Originally by: patch notes

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Warp Disrupt Probes have changed, their hitpoints have increased to 1000, flight time decreased to 120 seconds (and carries over after jumps), portion size increased to 2 and volume decreased by 50%.

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Originally by: kieron

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*Bugs in various missions being resolved

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Originally by: kieron

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*Adjustments to the scan system so that:
-griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult, and

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Originally by: gordon861

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Another bug that has started since the first Kali patch is with unlocking/sorting items in hangers/cans.

I sort through and organise the loot hangers for my corp.

Before the first Kali patch you could unlock a can with 20,000 m3 in it and stack it with no problems, now once you have highlighted all the items and you right click to unlock you end up just sitting there waiting for the menu to appear. If/when it finally does if you select unlock you have so wait whilst it seems to unlock one item a second.

Also before the patch you could sort and stack items even if they were locked, now it seems to do nothing but sit there.

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Originally by: kieron

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*Adjustments to the scan system so that:
-griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult, and
-scan results are easier to interpret,

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Originally by: kieron

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*Adjustments to the scan system so that:
-griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult

---

• 1. Steal loot. Perfectly all right in my opinion. He gets flagged so you can shoot back if you want, and it doesn't really impede your mission progress.


• 2. Salvage wrecks. Perfectly all right in my opinion. If he takes loot from a wreck he'll be flagged.


• 3. Steal kills. Perfectly all right in my opinion. It even helps the mission runner since he earns LP faster. NOTE: This is provided that my 5th point doesn't come into play!


• 4. Steal mission item. This one is a bad one, since it ruins the mission and causes the mission runner to suffer a large standings loss. This should in no way be possible to do.


• 5. Aggro room and warp out. This can cause two things. Either the mission runner dies, or he has to warp out. Both of them very bad since the mission runner had NO possibility of preventing it. He can't shoot back, all he can do is either see his ship explode if he's so unlucky to be scrambled, or warp out and have to enter the mission again, which possibly (worst case) can include 200+km of crawling across empty mission rooms to reach gates (in a non-AB Raven, this takes almost 25 minutes)!

• 1. Disable scan probes in safe empire (this is TEMPORARY).


• 2. Put a solution in place that prevents #3 and #5 above from being possible.


• 3. Re-enable scan probes in safe empire.

Originally by: fearlessshadow

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i Thought that the new racial scan probes would be ment for scanning out ships yet they dont fit in the recon launcher cause they too big mistake or intended? thanks

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Originally by: Cyclops43

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Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 10:04:17

Originally by: kieron

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*Adjustments to the scan system so that:
-griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult

---

....

The problem is not as such whether mission runners are easy/hard to track down. The problem is what a griefer is able to do when he gets to the mission space.
...
So, what can a griefer do?

• 1. Steal loot. Perfectly all right in my opinion. ...


• 2. Salvage wrecks. Perfectly all right in my opinion. ...


• 3. Steal kills. Perfectly all right in my opinion. It even helps the mission runner since he earns LP faster. NOTE: This is provided that my 5th point doesn't come into play!


• 4. Steal mission item. This one is a bad one, since it ruins the mission and causes the mission runner to suffer a large standings loss. This should in no way be possible to do.


• 5. Aggro room and warp out. This can cause two things. Either the mission runner dies, or he has to warp out. Both of them very bad since the mission runner had NO possibility of preventing it. He can't shoot back, all he can do is either see his ship explode if he's so unlucky to be scrambled, or warp out and have to enter the mission again, which possibly (worst case) can include 200+km of crawling across empty mission rooms to reach gates (in a non-AB Raven, this takes almost 25 minutes)!

Of the 5 actions above, I personally would only consider #4and #5 griefing. The mission runner has NO possibility of preventing them, and it ruins the mission for him. Have that happen to you a few times, and missions will rapidly loose your interest.

Some people (in other threads) have suggested that anyone entering a mission area not in gang/corp with the mission runner gets an automatic aggro. This'll not be a viable solution, but will instead help griefers. Why? It'll then attract the griefers who in addition to the above wants to kill the mission runner. One ship warps into the mission area that looks managable for the mission runner, he shoots at it, the rest of the guys corp jump in and kill the mission runner.

My suggestion to what CCP should do about this is:
...

2. Put a solution in place that prevents #4 and #5 above from being possible.

...

---

Originally by: Venkul Mul

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...
The mission should be accessible, but not so easily.

Currently the hunter scan for a ship, an easy target when we are speaking of a mission ship (not a covops), even when the ship is in a mission site or in one of the hidden exploration pockets.
So with a low strength and fast probe he can find a site that is in theory hard to find (a deadspace area, a cosmic signature) only because a player ship is there (notice itis not possible to scan for NPC ships).

So my suggested solution is to make the deadspace areas and cosmic signatures and all that those areas contains, hard to find like a cosmic signature, so requiring the high strength probes and the extended time.
While a dedicated hunter can then scan for a target and follow him, the tipical griefer will find the longer time and work to get "gratification" sufficent to dissuade him.

To add a system to make harder stealing the critical loot should be found.
It could be a locked container for the target item, requiring a code given with the mission to open or hacking if the persons trying to open it isn't the mission runner that has got the mission.

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Originally by: Audrea

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I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears

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Originally by: Audrea

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I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears

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Originally by: Exogene

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I don't understand the whinage about wrecks.

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Originally by: Exogene

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p.s. and to whom did this "griefing" of killing mission specific loot and aggroing the whole mission happen? Do you realize you are just giving ideas to griefers?

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Originally by: Cyclops43

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Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 13:11:07

Originally by: Audrea

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I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears

---

I wondered how long it would be before the first PvP fanatic post came up.

So you're basically saying that "Nobody should be allowed to play this game unless they do it my way!"
What would you say if someone told you that you could only play EVE by doing missions and mine? I bet you wouldn't like that much, but it would be exactly the same as what you say, except from the other side of the fence.

The PvP fanatic point of view is a VERY egotistical way of looking at things. There are lots of different player types in EVE, and not all of them want PvP all day long. Some don't want it at all.
Believe it or not, these people pay just the same as you in subscription, and they're just as entitled to continue playing EVE in their way as you are in yours. Up until now, mission runners have been reasonably sure not to be bothered. They weren't 'safe', but reasonably so.

This character is my mission character. I have 0.0 alliance characters too. I understand both points of view, and I understand that having non-PvP ing 'carebears' is just as important to EVE as having PvP'ers. Them being in empire and mining/missioning/whatever doesn't bother me the slightest. Why the h*** should it bother me (or any PvP'er)?

The exception is of.c. the few (like you) who simply can't stand other people having fun in their own way. It's either your way or the highway, right?

Oh, and don't give me the old 'EVE is a PvP game!" excuse. EVE stopped being a pure PvP game when high-sec got introduced. After that, EVE became a 'PvP & PvE' game.

---

Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 13:19:26

Originally by: Audrea

---

I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears

---

And I don't understand wtf gankbears always have to post their biased antics while obviously having zero clue.

Or can you explain to me how I am supposed to do all these things simultaneously:

- Being aligned and and warp speed towards a station
- Advancing towards the next deadspace gate
Do it AFTER the spawn is becoming manageable.
- Manoevering so I don't aggro additional spawns
Piloting skills? :P
- Killing 50 NPCs
Ingame skills, proper fitting?
- Managing my tank
Ingame and outgame skills, proper fitting?
- Scrolling through the overview to see if maybe a pirate has slipped in
No need to, use directional scanner, make overview setting not showing NPCs. if you still cant figure it out, go learn to pvp a bit
- Scanning for probes every 20 seconds
see above, probes by themself arent threat, its the players who get into the plex, thats all you need to scan for

And even better, how to extend my scanner range so I can pick up spooks and observators on it, which also can give pinpoint results now?

Now please get a clue about mission running before posting your BS.

---

Originally by: Audrea

---

I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

---

Originally by: Audrea

---

However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications. Risk vs Reward anyone?

---

Originally by: kieron

---

*Changes to the wreck icons so non-Salvagers can identify wrecks containing lootable modules, and
*Adjustments to the salvage contained in a wreck, thus resulting in better and/or more frequent salvage drops.

---

Originally by: Audrea

---

Recon probe launcher DOESNT fit on covert ops!! (At least tested on Buzzard, on 2 diffrent accounts, ships, places).

Quote:

---

To bring Recon Probe Launcher I online requires 220000.0 cpu units, but only 375.0 of the 375.0 units that your computer produces are still available.

---

On test server that worked, why doesnt now?

Why does it fit on Heron, and other T1 ships+Recon ships, but not on covert ops??

If its not a bug, pls let us know...


Thanks.

---

Originally by: Audrea

---

Edited by: Audrea on 07/12/2006 14:46:56

Originally by: Leandro Salazar

---

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 13:19:26

Originally by: Audrea

---

I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears

---

And I don't understand wtf gankbears always have to post their biased antics while obviously having zero clue.

Or can you explain to me how I am supposed to do all these things simultaneously:

- Being aligned and and warp speed towards a station
- Advancing towards the next deadspace gate
Do it AFTER the spawn is becoming manageable.
- Manoevering so I don't aggro additional spawns
Piloting skills? :P
- Killing 50 NPCs
Ingame skills, proper fitting?
- Managing my tank
Ingame and outgame skills, proper fitting?
- Scrolling through the overview to see if maybe a pirate has slipped in
No need to, use directional scanner, make overview setting not showing NPCs. if you still cant figure it out, go learn to pvp a bit
- Scanning for probes every 20 seconds
see above, probes by themself arent threat, its the players who get into the plex, thats all you need to scan for

And even better, how to extend my scanner range so I can pick up spooks and observators on it, which also can give pinpoint results now?

Now please get a clue about mission running before posting your BS.

---

---

Originally by: Leandro Salazar

---

Or how would YOU like it if CCP decided to spice up PvP with PvE by introducing a chance for NPC spawns that are omgwtfbbqoverpowered whenever players shoot each other? Wouldn't that be great?

---

Originally by: Cyclops43

---

Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 15:22:13

Originally by: Audrea

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However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications. Risk vs Reward anyone?

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Even if that was so (some people actually enjoy PvE without PvP, no matter the ISK), why is it that it is YOU who decides how other people are to play???

Who appointed you as having a monopoly on deciding how to play EVE?

Mission runners are not bothering you. They don't shoot you, they don't steal from you, they don't grief you. They're not even in your space. Extending the same courtesy to them would make you a decent person.

There IS Risk vs. Reward. You get 5k LP in empire, you get 10k in low-sec, you get 15k in 0.0 for essentially the same mission. There are mission runners blown up in missions in safe empire every day, so it is not without risk.

You're not really interested in that though, are you? What you really is interested in is destroying other peoples EVE experience, right?

Let other people play EVE in their way, don't try to force then to play it your way. They'll just leave, and EVE will be a poorer place.

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Originally by: Oveur on rigs

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Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here

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Originally by: Cyclops43

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Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 15:22:13

Originally by: Audrea

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However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications. Risk vs Reward anyone?

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Even if that was so (some people actually enjoy PvE without PvP, no matter the ISK), why is it that it is YOU who decides how other people are to play???

Who appointed you as having a monopoly on deciding how to play EVE?

Mission runners are not bothering you. They don't shoot you, they don't steal from you, they don't grief you. They're not even in your space. Extending the same courtesy to them would make you a decent person.

There IS Risk vs. Reward. You get 5k LP in empire, you get 10k in low-sec, you get 15k in 0.0 for essentially the same mission. There are mission runners blown up in missions in safe empire every day, so it is not without risk.

You're not really interested in that though, are you? What you really is interested in is destroying other peoples EVE experience, right?

Let other people play EVE in their way, don't try to force then to play it your way. They'll just leave, and EVE will be a poorer place.

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Quote:

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Well thanks for proving that you are indeed totally clueless about professional mission running as well as reading posts. Just as a little hint, I asked how I can do all these things simultaneously, meaning all at the same time. How to do them individually or a few of them simultaneously is obvioiusly trivial. But all of them? Which is what would be required to be safe in a mission with that new scanning stuff.

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Originally by: Audrea

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Rinse and repeat, without too much thought process or anything. simply farm them without too much effort on their part.

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Originally by: Audrea

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You dont understand the philosophy this game is founded on.
Non-consentual PVP is CORE part of the game!!
Its not WoW or sims or whatever, where you can only gain, and never loose.
Maybe you right, maybe its a bit too harsh for the empire mission runners (by empire I mean high sec, low sec really deserves higher risk).

So you see, its not me who imposes certain playstyle on PVE runners (god who even invented such thing for eve! )
Whoever plays EVE, must accept this reality, that he cant avoid PVP if someone wants to force it upon him.

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Originally by: Audrea

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EVE Was not a poor place three years ago, and it wont be a poor place when all 'PVErs' leave.
Just less lag for fleet battles

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Originally by: Matrix Aran

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The original post you quoted was refering to people getting killed in low sec I take it?

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Quote:

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Leaving people to play EVE their way instead of trying to enforce your way on them would make you a decent person. I like the PvP part of EVE a lot, but I'm perfectly happy to let other people play EVE their way. If they don't want to fight me, there's no point in me making them do so.
Forcing people who don't want to fight to do so only proves that you're a bully who likes victims who can't defend themselves (a game term for same is 'griefer').

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Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Actually for me the thing that makes EVE great is that I can do both, PvE and PvP, on the same server with the same character, and consequences from one affect the other. But at the same time, so far it was pretty much in MY hand to decide whether I wanted to PvE or to PvP. A few exceptions especially when you are careless, but that was fine, carelessness deserves punishment.
Now that any common gankbear can force his epeen onto me, the game definitely lost a lot of its attraction to me, but I hope CCP fixes it. But a PvE only server would be just as bad as one where everyone can be too easily forced to PvP at any time. The balance under the old probing system was fine, please bring that back somehow.

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Originally by: kieron

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*Adjustments to the scan system so that:
-griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult,

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Originally by: Cyclops43

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As I said before, you obviously lack the ability to understand that not all players play EVE the way you do. What's even more worrying is that you can't understand basic economy. If all the empire 'carebears' leave, CCP would most likely go bankrupt, and you'd have no game at all.

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Originally by: Aftenbar

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I agree with everyone about high sec mission running. I have quite MMO's before because they ruined my gaming experience with unavoidable PvP( Anarchy Online anyone?) though I like the way EvE melds the two together and maybe one of these days Ill win one of my PvP encounters. Tbh I wouldn't have started playing Eve if it didn't have empire space the wy it is.

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Originally by: Cyclops43

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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...
The mission should be accessible, but not so easily.
....
To add a system to make harder stealing the critical loot should be found.

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Decent suggestion, but I really don't think it'll work that well. Unfortunately, I think you underestimate the nastiness of a griefer. He's doesn't get his kicks from stealing your stuff, neither from gaining ISK. What makes his little miserable self happy is to ruin other peoples gaming experience. If the game mechanics allow it, he'll go to any length to do it, even throwing gazilions of expensive slow scan probes at it.

The possibility of seriously griefing a mission runner should not be reduced, it should be removed completely.

If the two serious mission grief points are adressed (i.e. stealing mission critical loot, and causing the whole room to aggro the mission runner), I don't see it that big a problem that people can access mission space (though it should probably be a little harder than today). Loot stealing (with the crappy loot for missions these days) is really not that big a problem.

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Originally by: Audrea

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Originally by: Cyclops43

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Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 13:11:07

Originally by: Audrea

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I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears

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I wondered how long it would be before the first PvP fanatic post came up.

So you're basically saying that "Nobody should be allowed to play this game unless they do it my way!"
What would you say if someone told you that you could only play EVE by doing missions and mine? I bet you wouldn't like that much, but it would be exactly the same as what you say, except from the other side of the fence.

The PvP fanatic point of view is a VERY egotistical way of looking at things. There are lots of different player types in EVE, and not all of them want PvP all day long. Some don't want it at all.
Believe it or not, these people pay just the same as you in subscription, and they're just as entitled to continue playing EVE in their way as you are in yours. Up until now, mission runners have been reasonably sure not to be bothered. They weren't 'safe', but reasonably so.

This character is my mission character. I have 0.0 alliance characters too. I understand both points of view, and I understand that having non-PvP ing 'carebears' is just as important to EVE as having PvP'ers. Them being in empire and mining/missioning/whatever doesn't bother me the slightest. Why the h*** should it bother me (or any PvP'er)?

The exception is of.c. the few (like you) who simply can't stand other people having fun in their own way. It's either your way or the highway, right?

Oh, and don't give me the old 'EVE is a PvP game!" excuse. EVE stopped being a pure PvP game when high-sec got introduced. After that, EVE became a 'PvP & PvE' game.

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On the contrary, I do understand. I have a carebear alt as well.

However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications.
Risk vs Reward anyone?

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Originally by: Shemar

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Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Actually for me the thing that makes EVE great is that I can do both, PvE and PvP, on the same server with the same character, and consequences from one affect the other. But at the same time, so far it was pretty much in MY hand to decide whether I wanted to PvE or to PvP. A few exceptions especially when you are careless, but that was fine, carelessness deserves punishment.
Now that any common gankbear can force his epeen onto me, the game definitely lost a lot of its attraction to me, but I hope CCP fixes it. But a PvE only server would be just as bad as one where everyone can be too easily forced to PvP at any time. The balance under the old probing system was fine, please bring that back somehow.

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Totally agree. It's not about being 100% safe. There was a balance. The griefer had to do a lot of work and spend a lot of time, to find a mission runner. It was not impossible. Someone going after a war target or having serious motivation could do it. Now it is so easy it takes minimal effort and zero risk from the griefer. There is no balance.

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