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IonHammer
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.07 05:49:00 -
[31]
The drake is a noobs wet dream man these things tank hard and with 7 launchers hit like a freight train, only downside is the freaking ridiculas changes to t2 missiles.
My favorite the hurricane is nice and fast with good damage output however, my t2 setup went toe to toe with a t1 drake with a guy with a lot less skilz needless to say i was very glad to here his cap was dry when i hit 40% armor.
My usual setup v caldari missle boats hasnt changed jam or run :)
All in all i think ccp work on the bc's was better than the bs's
If thats your real life i'm very jealous - Petwraith |
Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:16:00 -
[32]
Someone has to be ub3r, it may as well be caladari
ARENA |
Tehyarec
Erasers inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:57:00 -
[33]
Well, I dunno... sure Drake can have lots of shields with a passive tank. But how about the fact that you can get 700+ DPS out of a Myrmi while having a bit of a tank too? Slaps the Hurricane to the other end of the universe, and makes Ishtar a bit pointless 
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:06:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 07:07:04
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Def Antares
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:13:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
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Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
NOS isn't surprising or creative... it is predictable, mainstream AND overpowered.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:20:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Def Antares
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
NOS isn't surprising or creative... it is predictable, mainstream AND overpowered.
QFFT.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:21:00 -
[38]
Originally by: IonHammer
The drake is a noobs wet dream man these things tank hard and with 7 launchers hit like a freight train
you need quite high skills to be able to fly them halfway decent.
erm, have you been flying one? how in the world can it 'tank hard'? i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus. and i really would at anytime trade one launcher for something else. since energy modules are so important in pvp i would rather use that highslot for one. especially on a close range ship.
i also think its on par with the other BCs, except the myrmidon which seems a bit too good, and also proofed too good against various settings and tactics.
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DizzixX
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:22:00 -
[39]
Rofl Rofl
See it got interesting, just took a while...
And alot of things were brough to my attention that I didnt know before I guess it isnt as bad as I thought but I am still leaning towards them being maybe a bit too strong in a few too many areas but thats just me.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
NOS isn't surprising or creative... it is predictable, mainstream AND overpowered.
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:20:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:27:43
Originally by: Def Antares
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
Aww, he doesn't wike it when I compwain and awgue. *tsk*... awwwwww.
I care a whole lot. Now: NOS need a nerf, and you just admitted that they are more powerful than you'd like. So you have acknowledged my point. Where are you going with that argument now?
And no, I still don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. Me *****ing about it probably isn't going to change anything. But you know what? I don't give a rat's ass. I'm going to be harping on it until the cows come home. Wait for it!
Wait...!
The Rokh should not have 4 missile points.
(That was just for you! <3 )
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:20:44
Originally by: Def Antares
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
Yeah... strap in and get ready for the ride. It's just getting started.
NOS need a nerf, and you just admitted that they are more powerful than you'd like. Where are you going with your argument now?
i won't argue with you at all, because you are possibly just stupid or your can't/don't want to read. and u also have obviously more energy for arguing here over some nonsense, than i plan to ever invest into a computer game.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:30:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:30:34
Originally by: Def Antares
i won't argue with you at all, because you are possibly just stupid or your can't/don't want to read.
Now, WHAT was I supposed to read? Oh... your counter argument? You know, I must have missed it. Where was it again?
Quote:
and u also have obviously more energy for arguing here over some nonsense, than i plan to ever invest into a computer game.
Well, you're still replying, aren't ya?!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Kldraina
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:30:00 -
[44]
Personally, I think the Ferox is better than the Drake. The Drake doesn't have enough PG for Nos :P |
DiuxDium
The Graduates
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:27:43
Originally by: Def Antares
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
Aww, he doesn't wike it when I compwain and awgue. *tsk*... awwwwww.
I care a whole lot. Now: NOS need a nerf, and you just admitted that they are more powerful than you'd like. So you have acknowledged my point. Where are you going with that argument now?
And no, I still don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. Me *****ing about it probably isn't going to change anything. But you know what? I don't give a rat's ass. I'm going to be harping on it until the cows come home. Wait for it!
Wait...!
The Rokh should not have 4 missile points.
(That was just for you! <3 )
I'm going to email CCP about adding a 5th missile point to the Rokh. I figure our whinning will cancel out, and one or both of us will get cancer.
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kldraina
Personally, I think the Ferox is better than the Drake. The Drake doesn't have enough PG for Nos :P
I suppose, if you want to use the Ferox as a missile boat... I guess if you KNOW your enemy is stacked to the gills with kinetic hardeners and you plan on warping in on top of them (for NOS purposes), yeah, a Ferox would work.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:34:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:38:27
Originally by: DiuxDium
I'm going to email CCP about adding a 5th missile point to the Rokh. I figure our whinning will cancel out, and one or both of us will get cancer.
(Cancer isn't funny tho  )
Anyway - if the Rokh got a 5th missile point, you would be making A LOT of carebear mission *****s really really happy. I couldn't believe the number of posts whining about how the Rokh wasn't a missile boat. Jeeze... handed THE BEST sniper ship in the game, and ***** because it doesn't shoot missiles. 
OTOH, even with 4 missile points and 4 nos, its DPS sucks (8 neutrons is a whole other story :/). But this game isn't just about DPS. With 4 missile points and 4 nos, it has an insane tank and the ability to suck the enemy dry. Kinda like the domi, except that nerfing NOS would FIX the Domi's power issues.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
2SecondsTilMidnight
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:37:00 -
[48]
Drake is 20x better than the ferox as a missleboat(as a ship in general for that matter :P). You just need the actual fitting skills to use it.
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DiuxDium
The Graduates
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: DiuxDium
I'm going to email CCP about adding a 5th missile point to the Rokh. I figure our whinning will cancel out, and one or both of us will get cancer.
(Cancer isn't funny tho )
Anyway - if the Rokh got a 5th missile point, you would be making A LOT of carebear mission *****s really really happy. I couldn't believe the number of posts whining about how the Rokh wasn't a missile boat. Jeeze... handed THE BEST sniper ship in the game, and ***** because it doesn't shoot missiles.
Seriously, the Rokh isn't my idea of the best sniper in the game. Just me, I'll probably some day stop being a missile ***** (Read never) and fit for one, but I'll take my crow\drake over the thing any day of the week.
So cry all you want about the Rokh, you've never flown it, and you've most likley never fought it. Nothing worse than people who cry about pen and paper. The real fight is in game 
No offense ment, keep up the good fight!
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
--
NMTZ forum |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:41:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:43:16
Originally by: DiuxDium
So cry all you want about the Rokh, you've never flown it, and you've most likley never fought it.
ORLY?
Funny how my Caldari alt seems to "think" differently. (That's right... instead of just *****ing about Caldari, I bought a second account and started training it AND *****ing about it.)
You admit to being a missile *****... does that mean that you've never flown one? That's OK. Because I believe in math. Behind the "real fight" there is just a bunch of computers crunching out numbers... or what you call "pen and paper".
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exhcange it.
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DiuxDium
The Graduates
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:43:16
Originally by: DiuxDium
So cry all you want about the Rokh, you've never flown it, and you've most likley never fought it.
ORLY?
Funny how my Caldari alt seems to "think" differently. (That's right... instead of just *****ing about Caldari, I bought a second account and started training it AND *****ing about it.)
You admit to being a missile *****... does that mean that you've never flown one? That's OK. Because I believe in math. Behind the "real fight" there is just a bunch of computers crunching out numbers... or what you call "pen and paper".
Nope, and I don't ***** about it one single bit. "Training it" way to skirt a question.
The problem is, math is two-dimensinal. The game isn't. The game involves fleets, tactics, ganks, gangs, lag, warping, jumping, watching tv.
Under situation A1-BR we can say with % probability that the Rokh will do X dps. This situation isn't the only situation it will be faced with though.
Any ship will face dozens on diffrent tactical situations in a given fleet OP. A ships strength lies in its ability to deal with ALL of these diffrent situations.
I honestly don't care to balance ships "1v1 LETS ROCK ON". Ships should be balanced as per the big picture.
Your math is faulty, and fails at "big picture". Za~End, going to bed.
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:51:00 -
[54]
hmmm somtimes iam a bit concerd about certain ppl, but maybe thats just me.
First drake, yeah grate, lets waste all our meds for our tank so we cant web or scrambler, then we are going to blow him out of the watter till he warps or orbits us at 18km. Great ships realy, its so damn uber that u see tons of those flying around and screaming "bohaaah" in local which menans hmm juicy.
The Rokh will become the new Nobbie ship, ppl with no t2 skills can shot as far as t2 now, and dealing no damage, but hey u can shot that far. There is no gain without a lose, yeah right. Lets be honest, its a frickin caldair ship, no cap, no damage and looking ugly.
That guy posing a graph about dot, well smart idea to have pest and a maelstrom in that graph the worst DoT bs in game, which could be a coincende because of the rof of 7-8 secs art compared to the ~4 of large hybrid. Those are about Alphastrike which would mean, have a mega compared.
The mega gets a 25% damage bonus, the rokh a range bonus which means if u have more range u can use diffrent ammo, but does that ammo do 25% more damage? ehm no.
So guys lets be honest here, the drake on that sisi fitting is damn fun in ffa, and gate campes where u can tank sentries and what not, but thats about it, maybe pve whise a good option dunno didnt do that for years. The Rokh is just a excuse to not skill t2, and using blasters making my eyes bleed.
Not to mention that comparing a maelstrom and a hyperion is like apples and oragens, hyperion is a pure blasterboat, while the Maelstrom is a long range bs.
Sure u could fit acs on a maelstrom, but u could also fit launchers on a mega or Apoc, which is not that much of a good idea, but hey thats just me again.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.07 09:15:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
The Rokh is just a excuse to not skill t2, and using blasters making my eyes bleed.
- Rokh pilots will still skill T2, because the specialization skill damage bonus only applies to the T2 guns.
- Sisi has seen blaster Rokhs work time and time again.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 09:19:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 09:19:18
Originally by: DiuxDium
Nope, and I don't ***** about it one single bit. "Training it" way to skirt a question.
So - you having never flown a rail Rokh or blaster Rokh - makes you qualified to tell me that I am wrong?
Man, blaster Rokhs have been seen to be effective on Sisi. I mean... that's all there is to it!
Quote:
I honestly don't care to balance ships "1v1 LETS ROCK ON". Ships should be balanced as per the big picture.
K. Right. Remember there are still people who fly in small gangs (sometimes meaning 3 or 4 people), and sometimes fight alone. 1V1 matters because if some ship is superior in 1V1, all the 1V1ers will bandwagon and train it. It happened with the NOS+ECM Domi, and it happened with Amarr looooooong before that. Obviously you have to balance NOT JUST for 1 on 1, but it CAN NOT be discarded in as cavalier a manner.
Quote:
Your math is faulty, and fails at "big picture".
*shrug*
Whatever, I guess. Blaster have been seen to work, as I said above.
I should go to bed too. This is really quite pointless/fruitless.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Pinky Denmark
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 09:22:00 -
[57]
Rokh:
very versatile - 8 guns/4 launchers/powergrid for everything you want in there
very solid tanker - specially with the NOS (but the domi/phoon does better or just as good at way under 50% of the price)
Railguns and extra range - that is very very nice (why does the nice graph where rokh has nearly the same DPS as the others use 4 Damage mods and the others only 3?)
Blasters are nice and powerfull - range is pretty good... The speed is almost non-existing and to fit MWD and tackling gear you really really don't have much cap or fitting for tank.
Drones? yeah we have 50m3 that isn't exactly a lot - especially if you want to do the short range Rokh.
Drake:
Very powerfull - It is possible to make a very nasty tank (like on the ferox) but you can't really fit anything else... I have to use RCU to fit 7 heavy II with tha passive tank and I cannot fit a Medium Nosferatu in the 8th slot IIRC (I have AWU 4)
7 launchers is a lot - but then again these ships cost almost the same as a small battleship and Drake does not have the best DPS around anyway... We can fit HAM but then we sure can't use a passive tank well, and we will use slots for MWD's and webbers...
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.07 09:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
The Rokh is just a excuse to not skill t2, and using blasters making my eyes bleed.
- Rokh pilots will still skill T2, because the specialization skill damage bonus only applies to the T2 guns.
- Sisi has seen blaster Rokhs work time and time again.
sisi is cs in space, i like to stand at ffa at 0 km with a neutron mega and kill ppl with a full rack of neutrons and 4 mag stabs, cause I dont care about that ship, when I lose it Id buy a new one for a 100 isk at the station in system.
As Caldari have been kind of special cause of the lack of direct damage dealers, ud see dedicated scorp pilots and some ppl flying ranves in pvp, but ppl intrested in a direct damage dealer bs, have probally already switched to mega or another bs of their choice.
When someone is new in that game and u tell him that he cant use that t1 bs cause u get screwed range whise, and a rokh pilot can answer "I can shot at 220 with iron ammuniton", he will not be the greates damage dealer but he can at least participate, and then why bother with a 25 day skill when u can already shot that far. Most ppl are only intrested in hittin but not in damage fleetwhise.
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2006.12.07 10:16:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 10:19:30
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
lol yeah when you had 0% resist on all damage types. but when you looked at the attributes of a ship you'd realize there are some pretty high resistances already. so why oh why don't i have 85% explosive resistance? so if everybody would be using EM ammo, now that would be different
edit:
and yeah, you benefit greatly when fitting extenders, but tbh this just really doesn't work too well when you use your meds for something different ...
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Marcus Alkhaar
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.07 11:01:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 07/12/2006 11:07:28
For close range gang/fleet battle the Rokh and Megathron are pretty close.
The Rokh can use Neutron blaster II with Null and have 5 medium drones in its bay.
hits from 0-29 km Range (1x falloff)
DPS: 822
The full damage will nearly be instant.
Tank: It pwnz, doesnt matter if you go Passive or Active.
Mid slots: the mids will be used if you go active Tanking. A passive tank might give you 2-3 slots free for EW.
The Megathron will be using 350mm II's, siege Launcher and 5x heavy drones.
hits from 0-38 km range (1x falloff)
DPS: 820
The full damage wont be instant due to the slow Drones, the siege launcher will spew out Javelins.
Tank: 3x 1600mm plates and a damage control, 24k armor, it really gives you some precious time and have saved me more than once.
Mid slots: 4 mid slots free for any EW you might think off, personally I use ECCM, sensor Booster, scrams and painters, differs on who I'm fighting.
Prices:
Personally buy Megathrons at 90 and Rokhs at 180 mil, though I think the Rokh prices drop to a 155-160 in a month or so.
The equipemt wont be super expensive either, if you just keep it at T2
Originally by: darth solo
I dont blame XS, tbh if i was in there shoes i wouldnt fight us either, its like bringing a caldari mountain sheep to fight a gallante war wolf(u like how i kept that in character |
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