| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
DizzixX
Caldari Provisions
   |
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:11:00 -
[1]
So I was looking more closely at both the rokh and the drake today and is it just me or are the caldari ships a bit on the uber side again?
I am not looking for a fight but I think maybe some re thinking should be done.
Anyone that can point out significant weaknesses I would really like to hear.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
|
Zekk Pacus
Caldari
StateCorp
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:13:00 -
[2]
The Rokh's slow, has cap issues and isn't high on the damage side. The Drake's slow, has no RoF bonus and requires a friend if it's going PvPing.
|
Rephern Muare
Caldari
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Rephern Muare on 07/12/2006 00:14:59
Somebody hand this guy a nerfbat.
edit: Rokh trades damage for range and as for the Drake, I believe it's on par with the other t2 bc's
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:17:00 -
[4]
I'd be willing to trade the Kinetic and resists bonuses for a ROF and missile velocity bonus set for the Drake, but the current short-range setup it is given is unique for the Caldari. A missile boat that has defense instead of longrange.
 Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Ciphero
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:20:00 -
[5]
Rokh: Only tier 3 with no damage bonus*, traditional Caldari fatness and poor cap.
Drake: Honestly not sure, I dislike missiles :)
* Before anyone yells "but omg u cna use da high dmg amo further away u dnt need dmg bonus!!!111¼", consider that the Rokh is an obvious fleet ship - probably the most obvious in the game - and that nobody is going to be using antimatter (or, indeed, anything but spike or iron) in the Rokh's railguns in the usual 200km battles. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:27:00 -
[6]
As shown by murder one in the now deleted Kali Testing forum, a tech I fitted Rokh outdamages a tech II fitted Megathron at any range except for the small window between 140km and 160km, where a Mega does slightly more damage. This is thanks to the nerfing of the damage on Spike. This is also not accounting for the better tracking the Rokh will have for not using Spike.
I think everyone agrees that a fleet Mega does enough damage so I don't see why the Rokh doesn't. It also has a better fleet-tank in its shields with built-in resists.
As for the Drake, I think it's fine now with the RoF bonus removed. If it wants to do blaster-like damage it has to give up versatility. It's still wrong you can't really solo-break its tank without a setup designed to do so, but at least you can always warp off when you're out of cap.
Originally by: "Cy4n1d3"
You can't PVP with 4 mids.
|
Byzan Zwyth
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:29:00 -
[7]
range bonus can in some ways be considered a damage bonus
comparing range to what another ship fires, a ship with a range bonus can fire to the same range with more damaging amo.
----------------------
I fly
Amarr and Gallente ships
Amarr because they peow peow
- and look cool...
Gallente because they are effective |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 00:35:11
The Rokh is also far too good as a blastership. I mean, seriously, WTF...
EDIT: Pointed out what Shayla pointed out, but... since she pointed it out... *deleted*
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
DiuxDium
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 00:35:11
The Rokh is also far too good as a blastership. I mean, seriously, WTF...
EDIT: Pointed out what Shayla pointed out, but... since she pointed it out... *deleted*
Have you fought a Blaster-Rohk on TQ? If not, you've got no basis to make such a statment beyond pen and paper. 
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
DizzixX
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:42:00 -
[10]
I dont want a nerfbat, I wanted to discuss it, why do people always flip out and think you are trying to nerf? A nerf thread reads as follow "OMFG Devs The rokh and drake and freaking way to uber, they are eating all the biscutts!!!!" or something equally un relavent or annoying, or childish. I simply wanted to see how other people feel, and seeing as I dont know a ridiculous amount about ship stats I thought it would be best to ask around.
And some people seem to agree at least a little about a thing or two.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
|
|
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 00:48:08
Originally by: DizzixX
I simply wanted to see how other people feel, and seeing as I dont know a ridiculous amount about ship stats I thought it would be best to ask around.
And we told you. What's the big deal?
If you make a thread titled: "IS X OVERPOWERED?", and ask people to tell you whether you think X is overpowered, well... guess what? You are going to to have people who want X WTFBBQed with smokey nerfbat flavour... and you are going to have people who think X is gimped, and flame those who want tasty meaty nerf-flavored BBQ goodness.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
DizzixX
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:52:00 -
[12]
so far I have really only seen one side of the two
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DizzixX
so far I have really only seen one side of the two
There appears to be people in this thread from both crowds (the "caldari is overpowered" crowd, and the "caldari needs a buff QQ" crowd)...
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Breed Love on 07/12/2006 01:31:39
Blaster rokh is utter crap compared to a properly fitted hype.
I see a bunch of people using this funny 4 nos and 4 torps setup with a rather unbreakable shield tank on sisi.. nos and slowly (very slowly) kill you while tanking all damage.. but then again it does pitiful damage and has no tackling gear whatsoever, so it wont be that popular on tq..
Conclusion - rokh is definitely not a solopwnmobile. It can only fght in fleets, it even says that in the description.
I like it caus I can snipe properly without dishing out 150+mil on a 425mm II rail set. It should stay that way  .
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 07/12/2006 01:38:28
graph
rokh is overall too uber imo...
but is not the ship itself are rails.
People say that rokh have no dmg bonus but basically rails have an inbuilt dps bonus compared to arty (around 20% more dps), and also they have a higher range...
at 1400mm best dps they have around 30% more range...
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Breed Love
I see a bunch of people using this funny 4 nos and 4 torps setup with a rather unbreakable shield tank on sisi.. nos and slowly (very slowly) kill you while tanking all damage..
That setup and the 4 nos/4 blasters setups are what grind me...
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
DiuxDium
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Breed Love
I see a bunch of people using this funny 4 nos and 4 torps setup with a rather unbreakable shield tank on sisi.. nos and slowly (very slowly) kill you while tanking all damage..
That setup and the 4 nos/4 blasters setups are what grind me...
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos, far more than the issues with the Rohk. Nerf away though. Why should Caldari have any part in fleet battles beyond jamming and the crow.
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Laughlyn Vaughns
Gallente
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 01:59:00 -
[19]
after flyign a BClv5 drake from late day 1 and my corp mate flying a BS lv5 rokh both ships seem to do what they are supposed to just fine. he uber snipes enemies and tanks damage on missions and i pick off everything else.
Drake is a powerfull ship but so is rest of the tier 2 battlecruisers, as for tier 3 BS's they are all unique in their roles. BC's seem to be tank a lot but deal fair amount of damage.
At present my Midon does more damage than my dominix as i have gallente BS lv2 and battlecruiser lv5, if i load 5 drones into each the midon comes off better 
Hurricane is amazing, i have 720 howies on it and the rof and damage is insane, only one i'm yet to try is harbinger but i'll get there.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 02:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns
as for tier 3 BS's they are all unique in their roles.
Except for the Hyperion. Oh, and the Maelstrom. Oh yeah, and the Abbadon.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
|
|
DiuxDium
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 02:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
Other than the odd pirate enjoyin the novelty factor, few people will make use of the 4 launcher points for ANY form of fleet combat. That's what the Rohk is for, fleet combat. It does a decent job at that, giving us a place beyond Jamming (Very much nerfed this patch) and the crow.
To nerf it in any regard is not a nerf to caldari, but a nerf to caldari's place in Alliance warfare.
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Nifel
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 02:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: DizzixX
so far I have really only seen one side of the two
There appears to be people in this thread from both crowds (the "caldari is overpowered" crowd, and the "caldari needs a buff QQ" crowd)...
Hi! I'm from the Can't-The-Forum-Whiners-STFU crowd.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."
RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama |
Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 02:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 00:35:11
The Rokh is also far too good as a blastership. I mean, seriously, WTF...
I would also like to point out that the Hyperion is far too good as a rail sniper.
I mean, our "dedicated blaster boat" with 3 sensor boosters locks out to 245km, and you can fit 8x 425mm rail IIs on it for more raw firepower than the megathron at all ranges.
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:18:00 -
[24]
Just approach the Blokh and laugh manically as it hilariously tries to track your orbiting Raven.
The tracking bonus on the Megathron is far more useful than people give it credit for. The Rokh is a rail-boat and arguably not the best.
Leave it be.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
Constantinee
Caldari
PAX Interstellar Services
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:31:00 -
[25]
I personally cannot get enough of my rokh. however i dont use rails i fly with blasters 95% of the time and have not been killed in it once yet. The drake i have no love for yes it can ghold a tank but the rof is what we all wanted. I would have much rather had the drake be a blaster boat tbh (yes a blasterboat)
Want a Cheap sig? |
mallina
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:46:00 -
[26]
Edited by: mallina on 07/12/2006 03:46:37
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: DizzixX
so far I have really only seen one side of the two
There appears to be people in this thread from both crowds (the "caldari is overpowered" crowd, and the "caldari needs a buff QQ" crowd)...
in other words, the "omg the drake beat my myr" crowd and the "omg the harb beat my drake" crowd?
lets not forget the "omg the myr beat my harb" crowd
... and then the "minmatar are useless" crowd
-----------
Turbulance |
6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:52:00 -
[27]
The drake needs to loose its resists bonus, its simply too powerful in terms of being about to maximize both gank and tank.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: DizzixX
so far I have really only seen one side of the two
There appears to be people in this thread from both crowds (the "caldari is overpowered" crowd, and the "caldari needs a buff QQ" crowd)...
Hi! I'm from the Can't-The-Forum-Whiners-STFU crowd.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 04:12:00 -
[29]
Well the Drake is an I-Win button.
Not that I'm complaining... 
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 04:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Well the Drake is an I-Win button.
Not that I'm complaining...
HEY!!! I am! 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
|
|
IonHammer
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 05:49:00 -
[31]
The drake is a noobs wet dream man these things tank hard and with 7 launchers hit like a freight train, only downside is the freaking ridiculas changes to t2 missiles.
My favorite the hurricane is nice and fast with good damage output however, my t2 setup went toe to toe with a t1 drake with a guy with a lot less skilz needless to say i was very glad to here his cap was dry when i hit 40% armor.
My usual setup v caldari missle boats hasnt changed jam or run :)
All in all i think ccp work on the bc's was better than the bs's
If thats your real life i'm very jealous - Petwraith |
Roxanna Kell
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 06:16:00 -
[32]
Someone has to be ub3r, it may as well be caladari
ARENA |
Tehyarec
Erasers inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 06:57:00 -
[33]
Well, I dunno... sure Drake can have lots of shields with a passive tank. But how about the fact that you can get 700+ DPS out of a Myrmi while having a bit of a tank too? Slaps the Hurricane to the other end of the universe, and makes Ishtar a bit pointless
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:06:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 07:07:04
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
|
Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
NOS isn't surprising or creative... it is predictable, mainstream AND overpowered.
- - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon
as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:20:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Def Antares
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
NOS isn't surprising or creative... it is predictable, mainstream AND overpowered.
QFFT.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:21:00 -
[38]
Originally by: IonHammer
The drake is a noobs wet dream man these things tank hard and with 7 launchers hit like a freight train
you need quite high skills to be able to fly them halfway decent.
erm, have you been flying one? how in the world can it 'tank hard'? i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus. and i really would at anytime trade one launcher for something else. since energy modules are so important in pvp i would rather use that highslot for one. especially on a close range ship.
i also think its on par with the other BCs, except the myrmidon which seems a bit too good, and also proofed too good against various settings and tactics.
|
DizzixX
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:22:00 -
[39]
Rofl Rofl
See it got interesting, just took a while...
And alot of things were brough to my attention that I didnt know before I guess it isnt as bad as I thought but I am still leaning towards them being maybe a bit too strong in a few too many areas but thats just me.
Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
|
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 01:50:37
Originally by: DiuxDium
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos,
It isn't.
You're absolutely right.
NOS needs the nerfbat. Where did I say otherwise?
EDIT: However, I don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. I don't see where that comes from. We already have one Typhoon in the game...
why don't u once and for all just say what you obviously really want: one possible fitting for every ship in the game. So you won't surprised and don't have to be creative.
NOS isn't surprising or creative... it is predictable, mainstream AND overpowered.
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
|
|
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:20:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:27:43
Originally by: Def Antares
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
Aww, he doesn't wike it when I compwain and awgue. *tsk*... awwwwww.
I care a whole lot. Now: NOS need a nerf, and you just admitted that they are more powerful than you'd like. So you have acknowledged my point. Where are you going with that argument now?
And no, I still don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. Me *****ing about it probably isn't going to change anything. But you know what? I don't give a rat's ass. I'm going to be harping on it until the cows come home. Wait for it!
Wait...!
The Rokh should not have 4 missile points.
(That was just for you! <3 )
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:20:44
Originally by: Def Antares
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
Yeah... strap in and get ready for the ride. It's just getting started.
NOS need a nerf, and you just admitted that they are more powerful than you'd like. Where are you going with your argument now?
i won't argue with you at all, because you are possibly just stupid or your can't/don't want to read. and u also have obviously more energy for arguing here over some nonsense, than i plan to ever invest into a computer game.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:30:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:30:34
Originally by: Def Antares
i won't argue with you at all, because you are possibly just stupid or your can't/don't want to read.
Now, WHAT was I supposed to read? Oh... your counter argument? You know, I must have missed it. Where was it again?
Quote:
and u also have obviously more energy for arguing here over some nonsense, than i plan to ever invest into a computer game.
Well, you're still replying, aren't ya?!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Kldraina
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:30:00 -
[44]
Personally, I think the Ferox is better than the Drake. The Drake doesn't have enough PG for Nos :P |
DiuxDium
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:27:43
Originally by: Def Antares
i didn't say i like it that nos are so powerful, but i also like nos as an option.
i actually was referring to his complaint (as he does 24/7: complaining and arguing) the rokh having missile hardpoints.
Aww, he doesn't wike it when I compwain and awgue. *tsk*... awwwwww.
I care a whole lot. Now: NOS need a nerf, and you just admitted that they are more powerful than you'd like. So you have acknowledged my point. Where are you going with that argument now?
And no, I still don't think the Rokh should have 4 missile points. Me *****ing about it probably isn't going to change anything. But you know what? I don't give a rat's ass. I'm going to be harping on it until the cows come home. Wait for it!
Wait...!
The Rokh should not have 4 missile points.
(That was just for you! <3 )
I'm going to email CCP about adding a 5th missile point to the Rokh. I figure our whinning will cancel out, and one or both of us will get cancer.
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kldraina
Personally, I think the Ferox is better than the Drake. The Drake doesn't have enough PG for Nos :P
I suppose, if you want to use the Ferox as a missile boat... I guess if you KNOW your enemy is stacked to the gills with kinetic hardeners and you plan on warping in on top of them (for NOS purposes), yeah, a Ferox would work.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:34:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:38:27
Originally by: DiuxDium
I'm going to email CCP about adding a 5th missile point to the Rokh. I figure our whinning will cancel out, and one or both of us will get cancer.
(Cancer isn't funny tho  )
Anyway - if the Rokh got a 5th missile point, you would be making A LOT of carebear mission *****s really really happy. I couldn't believe the number of posts whining about how the Rokh wasn't a missile boat. Jeeze... handed THE BEST sniper ship in the game, and ***** because it doesn't shoot missiles.
OTOH, even with 4 missile points and 4 nos, its DPS sucks (8 neutrons is a whole other story :/). But this game isn't just about DPS. With 4 missile points and 4 nos, it has an insane tank and the ability to suck the enemy dry. Kinda like the domi, except that nerfing NOS would FIX the Domi's power issues.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
2SecondsTilMidnight
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:37:00 -
[48]
Drake is 20x better than the ferox as a missleboat(as a ship in general for that matter :P). You just need the actual fitting skills to use it.
|
DiuxDium
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: DiuxDium
I'm going to email CCP about adding a 5th missile point to the Rokh. I figure our whinning will cancel out, and one or both of us will get cancer.
(Cancer isn't funny tho )
Anyway - if the Rokh got a 5th missile point, you would be making A LOT of carebear mission *****s really really happy. I couldn't believe the number of posts whining about how the Rokh wasn't a missile boat. Jeeze... handed THE BEST sniper ship in the game, and ***** because it doesn't shoot missiles.
Seriously, the Rokh isn't my idea of the best sniper in the game. Just me, I'll probably some day stop being a missile ***** (Read never) and fit for one, but I'll take my crow\drake over the thing any day of the week.
So cry all you want about the Rokh, you've never flown it, and you've most likley never fought it. Nothing worse than people who cry about pen and paper. The real fight is in game 
No offense ment, keep up the good fight!
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
--
NMTZ forum |
|
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:41:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:43:16
Originally by: DiuxDium
So cry all you want about the Rokh, you've never flown it, and you've most likley never fought it.
ORLY?
Funny how my Caldari alt seems to "think" differently. (That's right... instead of just *****ing about Caldari, I bought a second account and started training it AND *****ing about it.)
You admit to being a missile *****... does that mean that you've never flown one? That's OK. Because I believe in math. Behind the "real fight" there is just a bunch of computers crunching out numbers... or what you call "pen and paper".
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exhcange it.
|
DiuxDium
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 08:43:16
Originally by: DiuxDium
So cry all you want about the Rokh, you've never flown it, and you've most likley never fought it.
ORLY?
Funny how my Caldari alt seems to "think" differently. (That's right... instead of just *****ing about Caldari, I bought a second account and started training it AND *****ing about it.)
You admit to being a missile *****... does that mean that you've never flown one? That's OK. Because I believe in math. Behind the "real fight" there is just a bunch of computers crunching out numbers... or what you call "pen and paper".
Nope, and I don't ***** about it one single bit. "Training it" way to skirt a question.
The problem is, math is two-dimensinal. The game isn't. The game involves fleets, tactics, ganks, gangs, lag, warping, jumping, watching tv.
Under situation A1-BR we can say with % probability that the Rokh will do X dps. This situation isn't the only situation it will be faced with though.
Any ship will face dozens on diffrent tactical situations in a given fleet OP. A ships strength lies in its ability to deal with ALL of these diffrent situations.
I honestly don't care to balance ships "1v1 LETS ROCK ON". Ships should be balanced as per the big picture.
Your math is faulty, and fails at "big picture". Za~End, going to bed.
I make sigs for free. Do Eve-Mail me if you're intrested. |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 08:51:00 -
[54]
hmmm somtimes iam a bit concerd about certain ppl, but maybe thats just me.
First drake, yeah grate, lets waste all our meds for our tank so we cant web or scrambler, then we are going to blow him out of the watter till he warps or orbits us at 18km. Great ships realy, its so damn uber that u see tons of those flying around and screaming "bohaaah" in local which menans hmm juicy.
The Rokh will become the new Nobbie ship, ppl with no t2 skills can shot as far as t2 now, and dealing no damage, but hey u can shot that far. There is no gain without a lose, yeah right. Lets be honest, its a frickin caldair ship, no cap, no damage and looking ugly.
That guy posing a graph about dot, well smart idea to have pest and a maelstrom in that graph the worst DoT bs in game, which could be a coincende because of the rof of 7-8 secs art compared to the ~4 of large hybrid. Those are about Alphastrike which would mean, have a mega compared.
The mega gets a 25% damage bonus, the rokh a range bonus which means if u have more range u can use diffrent ammo, but does that ammo do 25% more damage? ehm no.
So guys lets be honest here, the drake on that sisi fitting is damn fun in ffa, and gate campes where u can tank sentries and what not, but thats about it, maybe pve whise a good option dunno didnt do that for years. The Rokh is just a excuse to not skill t2, and using blasters making my eyes bleed.
Not to mention that comparing a maelstrom and a hyperion is like apples and oragens, hyperion is a pure blasterboat, while the Maelstrom is a long range bs.
Sure u could fit acs on a maelstrom, but u could also fit launchers on a mega or Apoc, which is not that much of a good idea, but hey thats just me again.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 09:15:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
The Rokh is just a excuse to not skill t2, and using blasters making my eyes bleed.
- Rokh pilots will still skill T2, because the specialization skill damage bonus only applies to the T2 guns.
- Sisi has seen blaster Rokhs work time and time again.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 09:19:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 07/12/2006 09:19:18
Originally by: DiuxDium
Nope, and I don't ***** about it one single bit. "Training it" way to skirt a question.
So - you having never flown a rail Rokh or blaster Rokh - makes you qualified to tell me that I am wrong?
Man, blaster Rokhs have been seen to be effective on Sisi. I mean... that's all there is to it!
Quote:
I honestly don't care to balance ships "1v1 LETS ROCK ON". Ships should be balanced as per the big picture.
K. Right. Remember there are still people who fly in small gangs (sometimes meaning 3 or 4 people), and sometimes fight alone. 1V1 matters because if some ship is superior in 1V1, all the 1V1ers will bandwagon and train it. It happened with the NOS+ECM Domi, and it happened with Amarr looooooong before that. Obviously you have to balance NOT JUST for 1 on 1, but it CAN NOT be discarded in as cavalier a manner.
Quote:
Your math is faulty, and fails at "big picture".
*shrug*
Whatever, I guess. Blaster have been seen to work, as I said above.
I should go to bed too. This is really quite pointless/fruitless.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Pinky Denmark
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 09:22:00 -
[57]
Rokh:
very versatile - 8 guns/4 launchers/powergrid for everything you want in there
very solid tanker - specially with the NOS (but the domi/phoon does better or just as good at way under 50% of the price)
Railguns and extra range - that is very very nice (why does the nice graph where rokh has nearly the same DPS as the others use 4 Damage mods and the others only 3?)
Blasters are nice and powerfull - range is pretty good... The speed is almost non-existing and to fit MWD and tackling gear you really really don't have much cap or fitting for tank.
Drones? yeah we have 50m3 that isn't exactly a lot - especially if you want to do the short range Rokh.
Drake:
Very powerfull - It is possible to make a very nasty tank (like on the ferox) but you can't really fit anything else... I have to use RCU to fit 7 heavy II with tha passive tank and I cannot fit a Medium Nosferatu in the 8th slot IIRC (I have AWU 4)
7 launchers is a lot - but then again these ships cost almost the same as a small battleship and Drake does not have the best DPS around anyway... We can fit HAM but then we sure can't use a passive tank well, and we will use slots for MWD's and webbers...
|
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 09:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
The Rokh is just a excuse to not skill t2, and using blasters making my eyes bleed.
- Rokh pilots will still skill T2, because the specialization skill damage bonus only applies to the T2 guns.
- Sisi has seen blaster Rokhs work time and time again.
sisi is cs in space, i like to stand at ffa at 0 km with a neutron mega and kill ppl with a full rack of neutrons and 4 mag stabs, cause I dont care about that ship, when I lose it Id buy a new one for a 100 isk at the station in system.
As Caldari have been kind of special cause of the lack of direct damage dealers, ud see dedicated scorp pilots and some ppl flying ranves in pvp, but ppl intrested in a direct damage dealer bs, have probally already switched to mega or another bs of their choice.
When someone is new in that game and u tell him that he cant use that t1 bs cause u get screwed range whise, and a rokh pilot can answer "I can shot at 220 with iron ammuniton", he will not be the greates damage dealer but he can at least participate, and then why bother with a 25 day skill when u can already shot that far. Most ppl are only intrested in hittin but not in damage fleetwhise.
|
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 10:16:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 10:19:30
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
lol yeah when you had 0% resist on all damage types. but when you looked at the attributes of a ship you'd realize there are some pretty high resistances already. so why oh why don't i have 85% explosive resistance? so if everybody would be using EM ammo, now that would be different
edit:
and yeah, you benefit greatly when fitting extenders, but tbh this just really doesn't work too well when you use your meds for something different ...
|
Marcus Alkhaar
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:01:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 07/12/2006 11:07:28
For close range gang/fleet battle the Rokh and Megathron are pretty close.
The Rokh can use Neutron blaster II with Null and have 5 medium drones in its bay.
hits from 0-29 km Range (1x falloff)
DPS: 822
The full damage will nearly be instant.
Tank: It pwnz, doesnt matter if you go Passive or Active.
Mid slots: the mids will be used if you go active Tanking. A passive tank might give you 2-3 slots free for EW.
The Megathron will be using 350mm II's, siege Launcher and 5x heavy drones.
hits from 0-38 km range (1x falloff)
DPS: 820
The full damage wont be instant due to the slow Drones, the siege launcher will spew out Javelins.
Tank: 3x 1600mm plates and a damage control, 24k armor, it really gives you some precious time and have saved me more than once.
Mid slots: 4 mid slots free for any EW you might think off, personally I use ECCM, sensor Booster, scrams and painters, differs on who I'm fighting.
Prices:
Personally buy Megathrons at 90 and Rokhs at 180 mil, though I think the Rokh prices drop to a 155-160 in a month or so.
The equipemt wont be super expensive either, if you just keep it at T2
Originally by: darth solo
I dont blame XS, tbh if i was in there shoes i wouldnt fight us either, its like bringing a caldari mountain sheep to fight a gallante war wolf(u like how i kept that in character |
|
|
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:09:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 07/12/2006 11:19:53
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 07/12/2006 11:07:28
For close range gang/fleet battle the Rokh and Megathron are pretty close.
The Rokh can use Neutron blaster II with Null and have 5 medium drones in its bay.
hits from 0-29 km Range (1x falloff)
DPS: 822
The full damage will nearly be instant.
Tank: It pwnz, doesnt matter if you go Passive or Active.
Mid slots: the mids will be used if you go active Tanking. A passive tank might give you 2-3 slots free for EW.
The Megathron will be using 350mm II's, siege Launcher and 5x heavy drones.
hits from 0-38 km range (1x falloff)
DPS: 820
The full damage wont be instant due to the slow Drones, the siege launcher will spew out Javelins.
Tank: 3x 1600mm plates and a damage control, 24k armor, it really gives you some precious time and have saved me more than once.
Mid slots: 4 mid slots free for any EW you might think off, personally I use ECCM, sensor Booster, scrams and painters, differs on who I'm fighting.
Prices:
Personally buy Megathrons at 90 and Rokhs at 180 mil, though I think the Rokh prices drop to a 155-160 in a month or so.
The equipemt wont be super expensive either, if you just keep it at T2
well having a 350 mega being close to a neutron rokh proves my point, cause neutrons are damn good damage daeler while 350 arent ;)
|
Marcus Alkhaar
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:14:00 -
[62]
did you even take a look at the DPS: XXX ?
Originally by: darth solo
I dont blame XS, tbh if i was in there shoes i wouldnt fight us either, its like bringing a caldari mountain sheep to fight a gallante war wolf(u like how i kept that in character |
kill0rbunny
Caldari
Chimera Intelligence Agency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Hehehe... more whiners whining about whiners. It is touching, really! And it never stops...
[...]
It happens when you want it to happen. But you have to have the will to make it happen.
The whiners open the threads, the whiners about whiners reply to them, which one fills the forums more? Nuff said.
So tell me your greatz tactics to make 1vs1 happen?
With the new increased shield and armor, the opponent will have even more time to call in some help. And he will do so, as losing ships costs money, mkay.
Only situations where i could manage to one on one truely is when i stole loot cans of belt hunters in high sec. Which isn't fair pvp, as those hunting in highsec are mostly noobs.
EVE-+NLINE Supporter of T+TALHELLDEATH |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:23:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Gyro DuAquin1 on 07/12/2006 11:31:28
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
did you even take a look at the DPS: XXX ?
its 820 vs 822 while the rokh has a shield tank so no webbing or scrambling for u and the mega has the armor tank with the option of webbin and ew.
but ofc the rokh has the moment of suprise cause not that many ppl expectin a blaster rokh, like "lets get close to him and his 425 hit **** - Hmm good hits for a 425" boom.
the range bonus is a good thing, ofc the torps will not be there instant, but as u have to be within 30k doenst matter that much, cause the torp launcher wont be that much of a help, having the drones on the target will deal a amount of damage without reloading and whatnot. 5 t2 heavy hurt quiet a bit. So if i would go for the blaster mega would still be my choice, cause need a speed mod (MWD/AB) and u need a web, having a neutron mega with no launcher, and no tank is probally a choice, but u wont benefit from the rokhs defensive capabilities. Which can be quiet a good thing.
I tend to use ships which fits them best in general, as i said the rokh has the moment of supriese, but what going to happen when the other side knows about that blaseter fitting and engange u long range.
The mega also has the tracking bonus which is in good use when using blaster or rails, its surerly not only about dps, but how good do u hit, and how many of ur shots do hit, and with a 25% tracking bonus ur changes are improving.
|
Marcus Alkhaar
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
did you even take a look at the DPS: XXX ?
its 820 vs 822 while the rokh has a shield tank so no webbing or scrambling for u and the mega has the armor tank with the option of webbin and ew.
in a gang you would'nt have to cover the webbing role, and not with these 2 ships. the mega will go 75 m/s and the rokh 140?
Leave it to the Faster ships, niether of these 2 ships are solo-pwn-mobiles... but they work really nice in a group of 3 or 2, and any numbers above
Originally by: darth solo
I dont blame XS, tbh if i was in there shoes i wouldnt fight us either, its like bringing a caldari mountain sheep to fight a gallante war wolf(u like how i kept that in character |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:40:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
did you even take a look at the DPS: XXX ?
its 820 vs 822 while the rokh has a shield tank so no webbing or scrambling for u and the mega has the armor tank with the option of webbin and ew.
in a gang you would'nt have to cover the webbing role, and not with these 2 ships. the mega will go 75 m/s and the rokh 140?
Leave it to the Faster ships, niether of these 2 ships are solo-pwn-mobiles... but they work really nice in a group of 3 or 2, and any numbers above
Ok the javelin is killing ur max speed thats a point for the rokh, but when u r using 350 ur range should be better then with neutrons, that means in other words, that if u r in a gang and u dont have to web u can then stand still and shot, but when ur doing that, why then fit 350II in the first place, wouldnt it be smarter to have 425II with t2 drones and javelin ammo loaded? On thing that comes to my mind is that 425 are an isk sink, but they do a good amount of damage and have the advantage of range, cause u can be there 15k or u can be there at 150k dealing damage.
The point where ur whole calcuation fails a bit is when comparing blasters to rails, sure the rokh with the bonus can shot quiet far with long range blaster ammo, but thats like end of the list, once u face an overhelming force u need to leave cause u cant stand in the middle of a camp njoy ursef. With a 350 mega u probally have the option to engange long range. With 425 its even better. Then with the rokh its end it game over. with a 425 rokh, u probally end up with a mega cause its the better boat.
In the end in a gang, where u dont have to web or scrambler, and u just there for pure damage then why not stick to a neutron mega point blank and njoy urself. Speed mod and whatnot and u can support ur tacklers.
OFC that rokh fitting works but is realy worth the 60mil more u pay for a rokh then u pay for a mega. And yes iam aware that the prices will fall.
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:46:00 -
[67]
The Drake is a great PVE ship. The Ravens till the best but the Drake is good for everything easier.
Neither overpowered for PVP.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Znathsume
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:54:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Znathsume on 07/12/2006 11:55:04
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expander's by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exchange it.
Are you both seriously retarded ? How much resistance does your average rokh pilot has ? Lets say with cheap tech II hards , 80% across all res for compromise . So with lets say BS IV you get 20% out of 20 that's 4% . Id personally love 30% to shield boost hp instead of 4% res.
|
Marcus Alkhaar
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 11:55:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 07/12/2006 11:56:10
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 07/12/2006 11:55:07
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
in a gang you would'nt have to cover the webbing role, and not with these 2 ships. the mega will go 75 m/s and the rokh 140?
Leave it to the Faster ships, niether of these 2 ships are solo-pwn-mobiles... but they work really nice in a group of 3 or 2, and any numbers above
Ok the javelin is killing ur max speed thats a point for the rokh, but when u r using 350 ur range should be better then with neutrons, that means in other words, that if u r in a gang and u dont have to web u can then stand still and shot, but when ur doing that, why then fit 350II in the first place, wouldnt it be smarter to have 425II with t2 drones and javelin ammo loaded? On thing that comes to my mind is that 425 are an isk sink, but they do a good amount of damage and have the advantage of range, cause u can be there 15k or u can be there at 150k dealing damage.
The point where ur whole calcuation fails a bit is when comparing blasters to rails, sure the rokh with the bonus can shot quiet far with long range blaster ammo, but thats like end of the list, once u face an overhelming force u need to leave cause u cant stand in the middle of a camp njoy ursef. With a 350 mega u probally have the option to engange long range. With 425 its even better. Then with the rokh its end it game over. with a 425 rokh, u probally end up with a mega cause its the better boat.
In the end in a gang, where u dont have to web or scrambler, and u just there for pure damage then why not stick to a neutron mega point blank and njoy urself. Speed mod and whatnot and u can support ur tacklers.
OFC that rokh fitting works but is realy worth the 60mil more u pay for a rokh then u pay for a mega. And yes iam aware that the prices will fall.
350mm II + siege launcher deals 590 DPS, and got more tracking.
425mm II deals 578 DPS.
about the 425mm II being better than the 350mm II for warping in at long range.
the 350mm II can hit up to ~120km - no TC
the 425mm II can hit up to ~140km - no TC
and if you warp in at 100km, will it matter if the 425mm II got more range?
For your last comment, then you and I know why a MWD'ing Blasterthron doesnt work out in a Fleet - it wont hit the primary before its dead.
Originally by: darth solo
I dont blame XS, tbh if i was in there shoes i wouldnt fight us either, its like bringing a caldari mountain sheep to fight a gallante war wolf(u like how i kept that in character |
Tybor Uskayrt
Caldari
United Electric and Power
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 12:22:00 -
[70]
CCP want the Caldari to win the war..... its that simple
|
|
|
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 13:48:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Znathsume
Edited by: Znathsume on 07/12/2006 11:55:04
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expander's by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exchange it.
Are you both seriously retarded ? How much resistance does your average rokh pilot has ? Lets say with cheap tech II hards , 80% across all res for compromise . So with lets say BS IV you get 20% out of 20 that's 4% . Id personally love 30% to shield boost hp instead of 4% res.
I can believe that.
Ok, let's make it simple.
Raw incoming damage = 1000/second.
Base resistances = 80% => effective DoT = 200
Base shield boost capacity = 100/sec
Shield size = 5000
We'll forget the automatic shield recharge for this example.
+30% shield boost => shield boost increases to 130/sec => shield falls in 5000/(200-130) = 71.4 seconds.
+20% resistance bonus => effective DoT drops to 160 (resistance 84%) => shield falls in 5000/(160-100) = 83.3 seconds. Resistance wins by 1/6.
The automatic shield recharge only increases the difference.
There's a very, very narrow band where the shield boost bonus is better than the resistance bonus (at max skill that's from (max basic shield boost rate*1.33) to (max basic shield boost rate*1.5) IIRC), but resistance bonus is better in almost all situations. In addition, it works all the time, the boost bonus is only useful when you activate the booster.
Actually, never mind that. Goumindong is correct, let's change the bonus.
--
NMTZ forum |
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 14:17:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 14:22:09
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 14:18:55
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Znathsume
Edited by: Znathsume on 07/12/2006 11:55:04
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expander's by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exchange it.
Are you both seriously retarded ? How much resistance does your average rokh pilot has ? Lets say with cheap tech II hards , 80% across all res for compromise . So with lets say BS IV you get 20% out of 20 that's 4% . Id personally love 30% to shield boost hp instead of 4% res.
I can believe that.
Ok, let's make it simple.
Raw incoming damage = 1000/second.
Base resistances = 80% => effective DoT = 200
Base shield boost capacity = 100/sec
Shield size = 5000
We'll forget the automatic shield recharge for this example.
+30% shield boost => shield boost increases to 130/sec => shield falls in 5000/(200-130) = 71.4 seconds.
+20% resistance bonus => effective DoT drops to 160 (resistance 84%) => shield falls in 5000/(160-100) = 83.3 seconds. Resistance wins by 1/6.
The automatic shield recharge only increases the difference.
There's a very, very narrow band where the shield boost bonus is better than the resistance bonus (at max skill that's from (max basic shield boost rate*1.33) to (max basic shield boost rate*1.5) IIRC), but resistance bonus is better in almost all situations. In addition, it works all the time, the boost bonus is only useful when you activate the booster.
Actually, never mind that. Goumindong is correct, let's change the bonus.
the resist, or passive, bonus also only works when you have shields left, the active works as long as you have cap left, which basically recharges faster than shields. as a result you are also ready for a new battle quicker instead of waiting for shields to reload. also active shield tank takes 1 med slot, while the uber passive setup everyone talks about needs LOADS of slots to get even close to the rate of a booster.
in general: resistance is good when you take lots and lots of damage, which is very nice for PVE, ergo the drake is a good mission ship. in PVP when you start taking lots of damage (from multiple targets) its too late anyway, since chances are good that you are scrambled. better resistances make you going pop just a matter of time, but you WILL pop anyway.
for solo pvp (which everyone was hoping to get a ship for, thats also why I said i'd trade the resi against a shield boost bonus anytime) the booster/repairer bonus is better.
|
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 14:31:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expanders by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exhcange it.
yes change with the cyclone... suddely Minmatar will be uber at least once!!!!!
|
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 14:34:00 -
[74]
The boost bonus only work when there is no 4 NOS upon you :(
|
Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 14:36:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Def Antares
in general: resistance is good when you take lots and lots of damage, which is very nice for PVE, ergo the drake is a good mission ship. in PVP when you start taking lots of damage (from multiple targets) its too late anyway, since chances are good that you are scrambled. better resistances make you going pop just a matter of time, but you WILL pop anyway.
for solo pvp (which everyone was hoping to get a ship for, thats also why I said i'd trade the resi against a shield boost bonus anytime) the booster/repairer bonus is better.
Wtf are you smoking?
Can I have some ?
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 14:40:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Def Antares
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 14:22:09
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 14:18:55
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Znathsume
Edited by: Znathsume on 07/12/2006 11:55:04
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Def Antares
i would trade the res bonus anytime for a 7.5% shield boost bonus.
(For your edification, 25% resistance bonus is equal to 33.3% shield boost bonus, 33.3% shield capacity bonus AND 33.3% shield passive recharge bonus - and you might also consider that it improves all shield expander's by 33.3% as well. You really, really, really don't want to exchange it to 37.5% shield boost bonus.)
No, he really does. Seriously, let him exchange it.
Are you both seriously retarded ? How much resistance does your average rokh pilot has ? Lets say with cheap tech II hards , 80% across all res for compromise . So with lets say BS IV you get 20% out of 20 that's 4% . Id personally love 30% to shield boost hp instead of 4% res.
I can believe that.
Ok, let's make it simple.
Raw incoming damage = 1000/second.
Base resistances = 80% => effective DoT = 200
Base shield boost capacity = 100/sec
Shield size = 5000
We'll forget the automatic shield recharge for this example.
+30% shield boost => shield boost increases to 130/sec => shield falls in 5000/(200-130) = 71.4 seconds.
+20% resistance bonus => effective DoT drops to 160 (resistance 84%) => shield falls in 5000/(160-100) = 83.3 seconds. Resistance wins by 1/6.
The automatic shield recharge only increases the difference.
There's a very, very narrow band where the shield boost bonus is better than the resistance bonus (at max skill that's from (max basic shield boost rate*1.33) to (max basic shield boost rate*1.5) IIRC), but resistance bonus is better in almost all situations. In addition, it works all the time, the boost bonus is only useful when you activate the booster.
Actually, never mind that. Goumindong is correct, let's change the bonus.
the resist, or passive, bonus also only works when you have shields left, the active works as long as you have cap left, which basically recharges faster than shields. as a result you are also ready for a new battle quicker instead of waiting for shields to reload. also active shield tank takes 1 med slot, while the uber passive setup everyone talks about needs LOADS of slots to get even close to the rate of a booster.
in general: resistance is good when you take lots and lots of damage, which is very nice for PVE, ergo the drake is a good mission ship. in PVP when you start taking lots of damage (from multiple targets) its too late anyway, since chances are good that you are scrambled. better resistances make you going pop just a matter of time, but you WILL pop anyway.
for solo pvp (which everyone was hoping to get a ship for, thats also why I said i'd trade the resi against a shield boost bonus anytime) the booster/repairer bonus is better.
ehm res work even with active tanking... the example you are commenting in fact is using an active tanking situation comparing res and shield boost...
is not that if you have res you can't use shield boosters...
instead is quite the opposite...
a res bonus works great both for active and passive tanking (and even with support "heals")
a shield booster bonus work only for active tanking
|
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 14:56:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Def Antares on 07/12/2006 15:03:23
i edited my previous post with some numbers
i add them here also
here a theoretical BC 1 vs 1 example (since i was talking about a drake)
dps: 250 roughly
shield boost basic: 60/ second (LSB II)
shield boost w/ bonus: ca 82.5 / sec
base resistance lets say 70% which seems realistic
booster bonus 37.5%
damagepersec_after_baseresist = dps * 0.3 = 75
damagepersec_after_sbbasic = (75 - 60) = 15
damagepersec_after_sbbonus = (75 - 82.5) = -7.5
resi bonus 25%
resistance_with_bonus = 77.5%
damagepersec_after_resist = dps * 0.225 = 56.25
damagepersec_after_sbbasic = (56.25 - 60) = -3.75
i didn't say res doesn't work when actively boosting, where'd you get that from (the passive tank comment was just a sidenote to the poster that mentioned the passive shield recharge rate.)? i just wanted to point out that at a certain base resist a booster bonus is worth more than a resistance bonus, since the resistance bonus' effect gets smaller the higher the base resist is, but the booster bonus always works, and most ppl fit at last one or two hardeners anyway.
you always fit a few hardeners, the drakes bonus saves you one multi, a booster bonus is more than a booster amp. but thinking of adding the shield recharge rate etc and everything it might be even after all ...
|
Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 15:04:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Def Antares
i edited my previous post with some numbers
i didn't say res doesn't work when actively boosting, where'd you get that from (the passive tank comment was just a sidenote to the poster that mentioned the passive shield recharge rate.)? i just wanted to point out that at a certain base resist a booster bonus is worth more than a resistance bonus, since the resistance bonus' effect gets smaller the higher the base resist is, but the booster bonus always works, and most ppl fit at last one or two hardeners anyway.
you always fit a few hardeners, the drakes bonus saves you one multi, a booster bonus is more than a booster amp. but thinking of adding the shield recharge rate etc and everything it might be even after all ...
You will always receive 25% less damage in a ship with resist bonus, no matter how many hardners you fit, meaning your boosters will always repair 33% more effective hp. The amount of hardners doesnt change anything at all.
Once again, can I ask you to send me some of the **** that yer smoking now? 
|
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 15:11:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Breed Love
Originally by: Def Antares
i edited my previous post with some numbers
i didn't say res doesn't work when actively boosting, where'd you get that from (the passive tank comment was just a sidenote to the poster that mentioned the passive shield recharge rate.)? i just wanted to point out that at a certain base resist a booster bonus is worth more than a resistance bonus, since the resistance bonus' effect gets smaller the higher the base resist is, but the booster bonus always works, and most ppl fit at last one or two hardeners anyway.
you always fit a few hardeners, the drakes bonus saves you one multi, a booster bonus is more than a booster amp. but thinking of adding the shield recharge rate etc and everything it might be even after all ...
You will always receive 25% less damage in a ship with resist bonus, no matter how many hardners you fit, meaning your boosters will always repair 33% more effective hp. The amount of hardners doesnt change anything at all.
Once again, can I ask you to send me some of the **** that yer smoking now?
i guess you should quit smoking?
using your words my boosters indirectly get a 33% bonus from res bonus, and the booster bonus gives 37.5%. notice something?
|
Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 15:14:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Def Antares
i guess you should quit smoking?
using your words my boosters indirectly get a 33% bonus from res bonus, and the booster bonus gives 37.5%. notice something?
Exactly, meaning it is very close, and if you look at the bigger picture such as a realistic fight, with tanks being broken and cap running out and how these bonuses affect that, rather than just hp boosted per sec, you will see that resists are more effective than rep amount in general.
|
|
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 15:19:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 07/12/2006 15:20:47
he told about shield recharge because shield recharge even when using shield booster... not by much but that value is influenced by res...
the "problem" in your numbers are not res but dps...
basically res cut the incoming damage so higher the damage higher is its efficency
to do an ipotetical example
a booster that heal 100hps with a bouns will heal 137 hps (difference 37 hps)
a base res of 50% with res bonus will prevent 75%
against 100dps the dps prevented will be by 25 points
(so shield booster is better)
now against 1000dps the difference will be by 250 dps prevented
(so res waaay better)
these are ipotetical numbers just to show how incoming dps affect res effectiveness, some time ago there where a nice and accurate post that used some real numbers...
in your example a dps of 250 is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery low, speaking about BS 1k dps is more in line on what you are going to face... and even BCs are around 7-800dps
in this is the reason for your results...
as was alredy said there is just a small window where shield boost is better for active tanking in most pvp situations res are more effective even with an active shield tank and whitout taking in account eventual logistic
|
Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 15:21:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ath Amon
Edited by: Ath Amon on 07/12/2006 15:20:47
he told about shield recharge because shield recharge even when using shield booster... not by much but that value is influenced by res...
the "problem" in your numbers are not res but dps...
basically res cut the incoming damage so higher the damage higher is its efficency
to do an ipotetical example
a booster that heal 100hps with a bouns will heal 137 hps (difference 37 hps)
a base res of 50% with res bonus will prevent 75%
against 100dps the dps prevented will be by 25 points
(so shield booster is better)
now against 1000dps the difference will be by 250 dps prevented
(so res waaay better)
these are ipotetical numbers just to show how incoming dps affect res effectiveness, some time ago there where a nice and accurate post that used some real numbers...
in your example a dps of 250 is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery low, speaking about BS 1k dps is more in line on what you are going to face... and even BCs are around 7-800dps
in this is the reason for your results...
as was alredy said there is just a small window where shield boost is better for active tanking in most pvp situations res are more effective even with an active shield tank and whitout taking in account eventual logistic
What he said.
|
Def Antares
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 15:29:00 -
[83]
yeah i also mentioned that at higher incoming dps res is better. so it might be better overall but in situations i was planning to use the ship booster is better. thats why i said I would trade the bonus, not that a booster bonus in general was better :)
lets just rest the topic. either bonus is nice and now lets ALL smoke some of the good stuff
|
Balthazar Torn
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:21:00 -
[84]
Oh noes drake n rokh is teh ubar, must nerf! omg must pwn caldari noobs with 750 dps myrmidon!!1111oneoneone
|
Lance Tyr
Minmatar
Catalyst Reaction
Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:25:00 -
[85]
can'tùcan'tùcan'tùstop the rokh
|
Securion Wolfheart
Caldari
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:38:00 -
[86]
God these "nerf caldari"-threads are getting boring.
Finaly Caldari gets a ship that do what the caldaris are ment to do (have range) and everyone screams for a nerf? LOL.
Maybe we Caldaris should start making nerfthreads about gallente having the best drone boats, the best blasterships and minmatars having the fastests ships, etc etc?
What do you say guys?
Time for a little Caldari uprising?
We cant pvp in our ships anyway, so why not do like the rest of the idiots and try to spoil it for everyone else as well?
-----====-----
Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
|
goodby4u
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:39:00 -
[87]
Originally by: DizzixX
So I was looking more closely at both the rokh and the drake today and is it just me or are the caldari ships a bit on the uber side again?
I am not looking for a fight but I think maybe some re thinking should be done.
Anyone that can point out significant weaknesses I would really like to hear.
Not uber just uber at one thing...Drake is tanking rokh is sniping...Trying to fit a tackler setup on a drake would mean you cant tank(whereas armor tankers can tank and tackle)so you must bring a tackler.
|
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:45:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart
God these "nerf caldari"-threads are getting boring.
Finaly Caldari gets a ship that do what the caldaris are ment to do (have range) and everyone screams for a nerf? LOL.
Maybe we Caldaris should start making nerfthreads about gallente having the best drone boats, the best blasterships and minmatars having the fastests ships, etc etc?
What do you say guys?
Time for a little Caldari uprising?
We cant pvp in our ships anyway, so why not do like the rest of the idiots and try to spoil it for everyone else as well?
lol quite hardly 10 ms more is equal to resist bonus advantage on boost bonus or on the range advantage or ecm over target painter.. well lets stop here shall we? If our speed advantage was like 25% more.. than yes.. it would be on par.
|
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 17:13:00 -
[89]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 07/12/2006 17:17:53
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
The drake needs to loose its resists bonus, its simply too powerful in terms of being about to maximize both gank and tank.
But it would be a poor ship without the resistance bonus in relation to its counter-parts.
Maybe if they reintroduced the RoF bonus instead of *****footing around a high damage Caldari ship.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
|
Danjira Ryuujin
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 19:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Seishomaru
lol quite hardly 10 ms more is equal to resist bonus advantage on boost bonus or on the range advantage or ecm over target painter.. well lets stop here shall we? If our speed advantage was like 25% more.. than yes.. it would be on par.
ECM over target painter? If youre trying to counter EW with a targetpainter, maybe thats your problem.
|
|
|
Znathsume
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 20:56:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Znathsume on 07/12/2006 21:12:55
Originally by: Ath Amon
Edited by: Ath Amon on 07/12/2006 15:20:47
he told about shield recharge because shield recharge even when using shield booster... not by much but that value is influenced by res...
the "problem" in your numbers are not res but dps...
basically res cut the incoming damage so higher the damage higher is its efficiency
to do an hypothetical example
a booster that heal 100hps with a bonus will heal 137 hps (difference 37 hps)
a base res of 50% with res bonus will prevent 75%
against 100dps the dps prevented will be by 25 points
(so shield booster is better)
now against 1000dps the difference will be by 250 dps prevented
(so res way better)
these are hypothetical numbers just to show how incoming dps affect res effectiveness, some time ago there where a nice and accurate post that used some real numbers...
in your example a dps of 250 is very low, speaking about BS 1k dps is more in line on what you are going to face... and even BCs are around 7-800dps
in this is the reason for your results...
as was already said there is just a small window where shield boost is better for active tanking in most pvp situations res are more effective even with an active shield tank and without taking in account eventual logistic
I love those forums , it just ate my whole replay so ill skip the smack talk this time. I did calculations with Pith XLarge booster and 3x64% hardeners,1xinv 37.5%,1x45% amp.The basic flow in your calculations is the boost amount.
- The +30% boost bonus gives 456,75hp / 4sec with this setup
- The +25% res bonus gives 5.6%/3.6125%/3,375%/2.25%
So lets see how much damage a BS needs to take to offset the shield boost bonus in favor for the res bonus.
EM 8156,25 /4sec
TERMAL 12,643.59... /4sec
KINETIC 13533,(3) /4sec
EXPLOSIVE 20300 /4sec
Note : This isn't a hard to get setup for a lvl4 mission runner or even could to be used for pvp if one's foolish enough and can afford to lose 2 bils.
|
Majin82
Caldari
g guild
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 22:41:00 -
[92]
Drake has a great tank, but I LOL at it's DPS output. Also it's a typical Caldari ship, you want a tank you need a friend to tackle. That being said, it's the best level 3 mission runner and belt ratter in the game.
Rokh has a great tank and it's a very secsi looking ship, but it's DPS output makes it a great support ship, hardly a solo pwn mobile.
-------------------------------------
Proud member of G Guild! |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 10:58:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Znathsume
<Comments from a person who doesn't understand that he doesn't understand math>
Fine, I can't be arsed to explain anything for a third time. Have it your way, and keep hoping for resistance bonus => boost bonus shift for Caldari tankers. I'll keep on laughing at you. Deal?
--
NMTZ forum |
Znathsume
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 23:25:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Znathsume on 08/12/2006 23:40:07
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Znathsume
<Comments from a person who doesn't understand that he doesn't understand math>
Fine, I can't be arsed to explain anything for a third time. Have it your way, and keep hoping for resistance bonus => boost bonus shift for Caldari tankers. I'll keep on laughing at you. Deal?
A great way of replying if you have nothing to say and lack any reasonable arguments. A fools laugh doesn't mean much especially considering your level of understanding and problems with elementary math.
|
Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 23:49:00 -
[95]
Id say Caldari are not really overpowered, just their ships cover all bases, leaving no holes in defence.
I think CCP has to go back rebalance other races ships to giv them better role distribution.
Compare the Rokh so say, the Abbadon. Rokh is an entirely a new kinda shhip for Caldari, gunnery based, long range, good tank, lower end damage for a BS, (probably only better than the Scorp)
Compare it to the Abbadon, which can either do the same thing the Apoc can do, or the same thing the geddon can do. If it did something entirely different, it would be much more useful.
|
Dread Phantom
Caldari
Project-Chaos
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 15:46:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Znathsume
Edited by: Znathsume on 08/12/2006 23:40:07
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Znathsume
<Comments from a person who doesn't understand that he doesn't understand math>
Fine, I can't be arsed to explain anything for a third time. Have it your way, and keep hoping for resistance bonus => boost bonus shift for Caldari tankers. I'll keep on laughing at you. Deal?
A great way of replying if you have nothing to say and lack any reasonable arguments. A fools laugh doesn't mean much especially considering your level of understanding and problems with elementary math.
|
DaChMon
Caldari
FireTech
Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 16:03:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Rafein
Id say Caldari are not really overpowered, just their ships cover all bases, leaving no holes in defence.
I think CCP has to go back rebalance other races ships to giv them better role distribution.
Compare the Rokh so say, the Abbadon. Rokh is an entirely a new kinda shhip for Caldari, gunnery based, long range, good tank, lower end damage for a BS, (probably only better than the Scorp)
Compare it to the Abbadon, which can either do the same thing the Apoc can do, or the same thing the geddon can do. If it did something entirely different, it would be much more useful.
Hell yeah, give it mining bonus !
------
My oppinion, views, flames, whines, discussions, rants and all other postings are not the view of
my corp, my alliance, or anyone affiliated with me or my family.
|
Majin82
Caldari
g guild
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 16:14:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Majin82 on 09/12/2006 16:14:39
Originally by: Rafein
Id say Caldari are not really overpowered, just their ships cover all bases, leaving no holes in defence...
I agree that the Caldari have the BattleShip end covered rather well now.
Rokh
Setups using range ammo allow this ship to pick off targets at extream ranges. Lacks the Firepower to be a SoloPwnMobile. It has an awesome tank and can also be used as a Nos platform effectivly. Caladri have a Worthwhile Fleet ship now.
Raven
Games best mission running ship for level 4's (Navy Raven is better though). Tech 2 ammo took a huge nerf and makes Regular ammo more effective in T2 launchers. Packs awesome firepower and is the back bone of any gang.
Scorpion
Can field a very powerful Tank, due to 8 mid slots. Due to ECM nerf it's main use, as a ECM platform, is kinda ruined. Now takes 7 Multi's to do the Job that 4 use to and even then, still isn't as effective as it use to be. It's half a Raven and Half a Rokh which covers any holes from the other two.
-------------------------------------
Proud member of G Guild! |
Archaon Dechalus
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 17:20:00 -
[99]
Originally by: DiuxDium
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Breed Love
I see a bunch of people using this funny 4 nos and 4 torps setup with a rather unbreakable shield tank on sisi.. nos and slowly (very slowly) kill you while tanking all damage..
That setup and the 4 nos/4 blasters setups are what grind me...
Explain to me how it's diffrent than say a nano-phoon with 4x Nos 4x AC. Your post reflects on the current status quo of nos, far more than the issues with the Rohk. Nerf away though. Why should Caldari have any part in fleet battles beyond jamming and the crow.
Actually the rokh will tank better then the phoon since it has more powergrid, but the phoon should outdamage the rokh since it has heavy drones.... seems like another flavered phoon to me
|
Takahashi Arran
coracao ardente
Sani Khal'Vecna
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 17:22:00 -
[100]
i still say the drake should get the kestrel bonus myself,
10% kinetic 5% all others
|
|
|
Celeste Bane
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 19:38:00 -
[101]
Ummm... it uses shields.
That means it can never solo kill ANYTHING. It always needs a tackler.
In group pvp.. 5 caldaris with a tackler vs 5 gallentes with a tackler don't make a big difference. Everyone dies equally as fast.
|
6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 01:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 07/12/2006 17:17:53
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
The drake needs to loose its resists bonus, its simply too powerful in terms of being about to maximize both gank and tank.
But it would be a poor ship without the resistance bonus in relation to its counter-parts.
Maybe if they reintroduced the RoF bonus instead of *****footing around a high damage Caldari ship.
Well hello there, nice to a familiar face. If the drake's resist bonus were removed, I'd be all for giving it back its RoF bonus. I'd also give it the standard missile velocity bonus.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |